Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[lord_hur]

Done D1. Lack of role-reveals makes the game a lot trickier huh...

Regarding the lynch on Guardian - I'm still unsure of his alignment. He obviously played poorly, regardless of whether or not he was telling the truth. The most significant points I noticed that make me confident he was scum were: His role (Jew), his terrible pseudo-cop play, and his self-hammer. However, putting these (significant) things aside, the way he played his game seemed very much like a fumbling pro-town. The way he was apologizing for poor play, his talk of his own lynch and how he was hurting town, his statements at the end of the day about thoughts on other players. His last page of D1 where he talked about Stoofer being his biggest suspect, and listed 3 people as likely town, I find exceptionally interesting. If he knew that his role wasn't going to be revealed upon death, then he made a clever move. However it's unclear if scum understand the mechanics at work here - if he thought his role was going to be revealed, then I'd expect he was a miller. I'm unclear where he got the confidence that the 3 said people were so likely town, which makes me think he was scum...

Holy... this is nearly exactly what I'm thinking about Guardian. This Jew thing had me ticking too, but then undo would have had to find a way to apply miller to the setting, so why not a person practicing the religion but not following them politically ? So, not a big thing for me.
The rest is very well on point though, in my opinion.

[Mr Stoofer]

Interesting claim, but I don't think it helps matters very much at all. It seems fairly plausible to me, but it doesn't really push things in either direction. Doctor seems to be the ultimate scum fakeclaim, but equally doctors are quite a common role and it's entirely possible he is one. I can see no compelling evidence either way, or any vague, non-compelling evidence, for that matter.

QFT.

[strife220]

I am going to re-read the whole thread looking for everyone's interactions with Guardian. I suggest everyone else does the same.

Has anyone done this yet?

I have concluded that neither thevampireofdussledorf or hasdgfas are Guardian's scumbuddies based on yesterday's play. I am not confident that I can pick out who

is

his buddy, though.

Stoofer can you qualify this a bit? Where does your confidence here come from? I would have thought that TVoD saying that Guardian is likely a Jester would make you think that they could be scumbuddies. Moreover, at the end of D1, TVoD says "Guardian is definately pro-town."

Not that I'm disagreeing of course, I just find it suspicious when people come to conclusions with such confidence when I don't see the evidence.

[Mr Stoofer]

TVoD was anti-Guardian all day, before Guardian was under any pressure, which I don't think a scumbuddy would have done - I don't see TVoD as that cunning. Plus a scumbuddy would have piled onto Guardian at the end when he admitted pretending to be a cop with a guilty result.

Guardian set out a detailed case against hasdgfas early on Day 1. Again not the actions of scumbuddies in my view.

Of course I may be wrong, but interactions between Scum and players alive is the best way to find Scum among the players alive.

[strife220]

Fair enough. I'm unhappy with the assumption that Guardian is scum, but if you're convinced otherwise then your arguments are at least consistent with that opinion.

[strife220]

Done. Most pressing matter to talk about is obviously the claim

My opinions:

Claiming in parts is very sketchy. First "I'm doc," then "I'm a physician," then "my name is Kamazu," then "I protected XX on N0 and YY on n1." This is the best point against his claim.

I'd like someone to elaborate on their suspicion about the name claim - Hur and Stoofer in particular. I have both a point for and against the name claim, and will say so after I hear why you think the name claim is BS.

Thirdly, the role physician fits in entirely too well - I really couldn't imagine a different title for a doctor. This is the best point to support his claim. Unfortunately, given the 'no-reveal' rule, if somebody else did have the title of Physician, it probably isn't in their best interest to say so.

As a side-theory that people may attack me for since it's heavy on speculation, is that scum may get to find out the identity of who they kill. This would explain the perfect job title as well as his eagerness to claim, if N0 kill (forget his name) was the doc.
I believe the theory fits reasonably with flavor, which said everybody was too busy fleeing to notice the guys' role. If scum summoned the animals, they likely didn't have to flee, since they were presumably in control of it.

Just speculation - bash me for it if you wish. I try to type what I'm thinking unless I think it's obviously anti-town.


As to whether or not I believe the claim, I'll wait until I hear why people call BS on "Kamazu"

[SeraphicMirth]

I'm not sure I understand the name thing or why it's off...so clarification at some point would be cool and would probably help make my decision to put my vote back on or not easier, if it is something I also see as scummy.

I don't know if we are actually going to get answers from Musher, since he requested a replacement? I'm not sure what's going on with that.

I still think his lack of defenses and other things I pointed out put him on probable scum side and I'm more willing to believe this claim is false, but I get nervous when claims happen...so I dunno.

[lord_hur]

Claiming in parts is very sketchy. First "I'm doc," then "I'm a physician," then "my name is Kamazu," then "I protected XX on N0 and YY on n1." This is the best point against his claim.

I don't think it is that good of a point. Musher333 has no skill whatsoever in constructing a good defense, and rarely posts 2 sentences linked to each other. Everything he says IS sketchy.

I'd like someone to elaborate on their suspicion about the name claim - Hur and Stoofer in particular. I have both a point for and against the name claim, and will say so after I hear why you think the name claim is BS.

I never said I think it's BS. I said I find it surprising, as it is not at all in line with my own name. But I would rather picture scum googling "Thabit" (the only town name disclosed), finding it's an arabic name, and taking a random ancient-looking arabic name. So I think it's actually a point in his favor.

[Singing Librarian]

Thanks for posting your thoughts, strife220 - you are so much easier to understand than the guy you've replaced!

I agree that physician is a logical and sensible equivalent for doctor given the theme, but I don't know how much we can allow any musher-related issues to pass by saying that he's had difficulties communication, constructing defence and so on, because then he'd just have a free pass in every game.

[SeraphicMirth]

It's "not at all" in line with your own name?? That suggests a stark difference. I must be missing something with the names. It doesn't seem all that crazy different from mine unless, like I said, I'm missing some aspect of the names that I don't understand. hmmf.


Also HackerHuck said this:

I'm now thinking Musher is likely scum from that claim and it's not because his name is weird.

Yet, lord_hur says it is because of the name? So...are there two different arguments against the claim?

and I completely echo what SL says in his last line. I've been in a game where the "oh they just don't play well" lead to letting the person slip by for quite some time and they turned up scum.

[Mr Stoofer]

I'd like someone to elaborate on their suspicion about the name claim - Hur and Stoofer in particular. I have both a point for and against the name claim, and will say so after I hear why you think the name claim is BS.

I have nothing against the name itself as such. My point was that Musher333 started by saying that "

all

it says

" is that he was a Physician; and then he added the name later when it was specifically pointed out that his role should have a name with it.

[lord_hur]

It's "not at all" in line with your own name?? That suggests a stark difference. I must be missing something with the names. It doesn't seem all that crazy different from mine unless, like I said, I'm missing some aspect of the names that I don't understand. hmmf.

I'm just saying it is not in line with Thabit and my own name put together. They are of a similar origin, so I assumed all of town names were in the same line. Hence my surprise at his claim. Now it could just be a coincidence, as it's hard to know with this little info.

Also HackerHuck said this:

I'm now thinking Musher is likely scum from that claim and it's not because his name is weird.

Yet, lord_hur says it is because of the name? So...are there two different arguments against the claim?

No, reread it. My argument with the name was actually in favor of his claim.

and I completely echo what SL says in his last line. I've been in a game where the "oh they just don't play well" lead to letting the person slip by for quite some time and they turned up scum.

Yes, that worries me too. As I've already said, I have trouble reading him. I'm trying to take his terrible style and lack of comprehension out of the equation, but there is not much left :/ This recent claim is basically the only objective element we have.

[strife220]

My own name is Egyptian. However the name Thabit is from Mesopotamia - different ballpark, but same league. I'm not really sure where the name Kamazu comes from - googling it, it doesn't seem to be a name at all.

However it doesn't seem likely to me that scum would have a reason to lie about their name. Presumably they have one, and given the flavor, I doubt there name would be something like 'evil bad guy #1.' So despite the name being slightly out of place, I don't see it as evidence towards his alignment.

[springlullaby]

Unvote

I'm rethinking my case against lord_hur, and my view or Musher.


Musher, look closely at your PM and report here once more.

Name?
Profession?
Role?

[Mr Stoofer]

My own name is Egyptian. However the name Thabit is from Mesopotamia - different ballpark, but same league. I'm not really sure where the name Kamazu comes from - googling it, it doesn't seem to be a name at all.

The most famous

Kamazu

, according to Wikipedia, is from Malawi: Hastings Kamuzi Banda. He seems to have been known as "Kamazu" - when they named a Stadium after him they named it Kamazu Stadium.

Make of that what you will. It's playing no part in my thought processes.

[Mr Stoofer]

It's playing no part in my thought processes.

Not least because (having just Googled/Wikipedia-ed it) my name appears to be a region of India, and Wikipedia has some Somalis and some Indians with that name.

[strife220]

Unvote

I'm rethinking my case against lord_hur, and my view or Musher.


Musher, look closely at your PM and report here once more.

Name?
Profession?
Role?

And can you clarify why you gave it in parts previously, Musher?

[strife220]

FYI deadline is in 6 days, so if the general consensus is that Musher's likely the real doc, then we might wanna consider alternatives.

When I re-read, Stoofer came out as the biggest suspect in my eyes. Unfortunately, that's heavily influenced by the fact that I believe the D1 Miller claim.

More unfortunately still, 6 days isn't really enough time to make and discuss a full case from scratch. If we do lynch Musher and he comes up town, I'll be looking at the late-D2 lurkers with suspicion on D3.

[lord_hur]

and he comes up town

There is a flaw in your plan...

[HackerHuck]

Vote: Musher33

I didn't buy his claim at first and you guys are convincing me that it's pretty suspect. I was hoping to hammer, so I'm really not happy with SpringLullaby's unvote.

[lord_hur]

Hmm, without disrupting pre-deadline conversation, could we get a name origin claim for everyone ? Maybe we won't get anything out of it, but maybe we will...

More importantly, let's say if you believe Musher333's claim, and, as we don't have much time, who are the top suspects in your opinion.

I tend to believe his claim (about 70% sure). Not giving any reasons yet.

My main suspects are still (but in a different order) :

1. Mr Stoofer (I still don't like his "I'm sure he's scum" attitude, and I tend to believe the two claims he actively obtained)
2. HackerHuck (no change)
3. springlullaby (part of my scum rating was influenced by my hate for the playstyle she adopted in this game, so taking her down a notch ; she's still there though)


Don't forget we can ask for an extension of the deadline.

[lord_hur]

Can you explain your train of thoughts between this :

I'm also not happy with Mr Stoofer's press to lynch Musher to get the game moving. Especially with a replacement, I think fresh blood might reinvigorate this game a bit and I'm certainly not buying the case on Musher. If this were a full reveal game, I would agree that a lynch is helpful, but I don't believe that to be the case here.

And this :

Vote: Musher33

I didn't buy his claim at first and you guys are convincing me that it's pretty suspect. I was hoping to hammer, so I'm really not happy with SpringLullaby's unvote.

Only a couple days, and 1 post from you separate them.

[springlullaby]

This is L-1 on Musher.

I advise caution now because I myself am starting to believe that claim.

I want that name thing cleared first.

Hackerhuck, I'm not liking your vote, what have people said that convinced you that it's pretty suspect?

Lord_hur, your vote has been on HackerHuck for a while now, but you don't seem to be very concerned to get him lynched, why?

[springlullaby]

Ninja'd, questions still stands.

I'm for name origin claim, I want Hackerhuck to do it before other people.

Town, I'd like you to research the origin of your name thoroughly before claiming.

[lord_hur]

Lord_hur, your vote has been on HackerHuck for a while now, but you don't seem to be very concerned to get him lynched, why?

I posted all the reasons I voted him, and attack him when possible.

What else could I do ? (and this is an honest question, I'm sure there are many things I can improve in my playstyle).