Mini 598 - Justice Justice - Abandoned

[angelmouse]

Vote: ya_its_me

I think that a confession and it works for me

[angelmouse]

oh, my bad. So the Nebraska mafia get to night talk before the game starts, and possibly do nks, but the oklahoma mafia don't ? That hardly seems fair ot the oklahoma mafia!

It's only unfair if you are indeed mafia. If you were town you wouldn't think that.

Unvote, Vote: Skruffs

[angelmouse]

My thoughts:
Angelmouse's response was completely and totally oppurtunistic: She gave absolutely nothing for me to respond to except a vote, and has left nothing ot be tracked back to her except that vote, which doesn't mean anything because she can write it off as random later on.

I gave nothing for you to respond to, because you didn't have to respond. Total over reaction I feel to your mistake, not trap. Oh and I wont write it off as random later on, it wasn't in any form.

I feel you are backtracking for a big boo boo you made but moaning in the tread about the set-up (which mod I feel is great!). If you had a problem or question about mafia rules ask the mod in a PM. My vote wasn't opertunistic, it was because you were moaning about the fairness to the mafia. Saying now it was a trap is a very handy way of getting out of your mistake. Plus you have confused everyone to make them believe it was a trap.

My vote stays

[angelmouse]

It's this continued opportunism that's going to lead me to vote: angelmouse.

I wasn't being opportunistic and still I am not. I feel he best deserved my vote so I voted. Isn't that how mafia is played? (that was sarcasm). To be honest his explanations have totally confused me and my head is going round in circles. I'm not sure whether he has convinced me of his scumminess or explained it effectively for me to remove my vote.

However, your reaction is pretty much OMGUS. I know that technically you were the first to vote Skruffs, and technically that makes it his vote that's OMGUS, but you jumped on Skruffs' wagon echoing a BS reason, which I mainly brought up for a reaction. You echoing it like it was a valid argument makes you pretty scummy. And when Skruffs votes you with a valid accusation, you effectively confirm your vote on him, with basically nothing more as an argument than OMGUS. The points you bring are only borderline valid at best, and I feel are more personal than called for.

I actually wanted to post before you did. I only really post once a day at best, but can check them more reguarlly. Simply because you had posted something similar did not distract from the fact i felt it was slightly scummy behaviour, whether a trap or not. I don't believe my reason to be borderline for this stage in the game at all. It is more or less exactly the same amount of strength as every other serious vote that has been placed in this game, certainly at the time anyway. Please remember we are only on page 2. Also rememebr the speed at which this game has to go at. I feel there will be many occasions where votes will be placed that have less reasoning that this because of the game we are playing. I confirmed my vote because I felt there had not been enough explanation. There was no personalness in it and no OMGUS (my opion of course, your entitled to your own).

[angelmouse]

J-man: I am sitting by and reading posts. If I see a point where my input might be a good thing, I will input.

However, I have noticed something I did not notice before:

Skruffs: As I have been saying in many other games,

DO NOT USE METAS.

This is an especially true case, when someone is talking about their own personality, and you deem to say that they are lying about their personality because of how they played in other games, of which you have presented little evidence yourself.

I don't like meta's at all, different game, different players, different set-up, different roles, etc, but what i would say watch the difference between a meta and experience or personality. I fully believe people should draw on their experiences within a game, on things they have learned from it, but not on the people with in the game. We wouldn't learn, mature and become better players if we didn't. Also just becuase something isn't said in the thread, shouldn't mean you don't have an opinion on it. I believe complicated traps though out in advance to be slightly scummy behaviour (note the slight), but I haven't said that anywhere on the site since it is an opinion i have gained through my own games and reading others. Doesn't mean I don't think that.

Skruffs does say in his own experience so that shouldn't be discounted.

If you are going to draw on previous games and use that as reasoning then i fully back the asking of examples. Thing is I don't really see where it was said that WLC (again sorry if the abreviation offends) was drawing on previous games rather than just experience/opinion? Can you clarify Skruffs.

Also ZombieSlayer please remember the speed at which this game will have to go at. With a week to a day and, as VanDamien pointed out, we all get lynched if there is a no lynch, we need to come to a decision quickly or at least quicker than normal. A lot has gone on recently that does deserve your input whether or not you are directly involved in it or not.

@ VanDamien - you asked J-man a question regarding night actions. Why just him?

[angelmouse]

Right guys, I've had a last minute change of plans for this weekend and I'm going away. If i get any net time I will post, but I am warning you now that it may be difficult.

I have to agree that it appears as though angelmouse is attempting to discredit and throw suspicion upon Skruffs. For example, the "If you were Town you wouldn't think that" comment. A person can think something isn't fair without it actually affecting them.

And, as far as I can see, at any given time when a person says something is a trap, it could or could not actually be a trap and could be a cover-up. There are instances where it's easier to tell one way or the other.

What i will say now is i wasn't discrediting Skruffs. It was the first, maybe second serious vote of the game and I felt valid at the time. I will say what he did (and me in a way) has been highly effective in getting this game going quickly, even although it's me in the firing line. I agree that someone can think something is unfair if it doesn't affect them, but you bring that up with the mod and not in the thread. In the style of this game I don't think it's unfair one little bit. The town don't have enough time to get a flavour of the game and players before we call a lynch so why should the mafia get to talk, but thats my opinion.

I have re-read what Skruffs has said since my vote and I am happy to

Unvote

and lower it to

fos: Skruffs

. It took me a while to sift through his explanation and make sense of it myself, but i believe it was him trying to get a flavour of the game quickly although i still don't like the fact he said it was a trap after as i still feel a little that it was a cover up for a mistake. I belive that to be non town behaviour, but not necessarily making him scum.

And the only reason that vote is on there is because of a misunderstanding.

And if anyone votes me for lurking, well... *shrug*

I'm really not happy at all with Zombie right now either. The only reason you have a vote is not a misunderstanding, imo. I don't like the attitude that if there is nothing to say then don't say it in a game like this with these deadlines. IMO lurking in plain site isn't the most town like of behaviour. To say that you aren't particuarly bothered if people vote you for lurking when you can do something about that, i.e. post when you check the thread, then you are almost calling out for votes. I find it hard to belive that with everything going on you don't have anything to say on the matter and it took someone to directly call you out for you to post. Things like that lead me to belive that you are letting the town fight it out amonst ourselves while you wait for the deadline to tick by.

I'm in a tight spot right now since I may not get another chance to post properly before the deadline and with the style of the game the way it is, I don't want to be not voting as it may count. For that reason I will

Vote: ZombieSlayer54

since right now you are number 1 on my suspicion list. I wish there was more time as there is players I'm just getting a feel of and it would be nice to explore these thoughts, but with the game technically so early it can't be done, i.e not enough posts/evidence. Also I know that I'm one of the players in the line for the chop and if i'm going to go, I would like to express some thoughts so that the town will have my views to help them on day 2, but that might not happen since I might not get access.

[angelmouse]

Also, are we sure that angelmouse isn't dead entirely? Because he is listed as lynched not in the Oklahoma game, but in the general players list, which I take to mean he is out completely.

I don't think so....pm-ed mod to ask. Nothing more from me till I know.

[angelmouse]

Just confirmned that I'm alive here. A lot of discussion on yesterdays game. I think it's going ot be interesting to watch how people change from one game to the next.

[angelmouse]

I got the impression from WLC's vote that it was a random vote, with a funny reason rather than misreading that kabenon had posted. But seeing as he hasn't cared to comment on this and explained himself he isn't exactly doing himself any favours.

[angelmouse]

I personally would have thought the scum would be the ones hoping on at the last minute using the excuse that you can't really no-lynch to oust a town player. Also in these circumstances there may be a lot of bussing going on to "look" town in the dying deadline times where scum are hoping on scum bandwaggons to save their skins. These players would have looked like they weren't going to vote that person earlier in the day. Mind you that is just my opinion and there hasn't been a case of that yet.

I also agree with VanDamien's reasoning on ZS's vote. I don't think lynching town at all in this set-up is helpful, no matter wehter they can read or not. In others maybe, but no this one.....

(sorry got to run, will post more later tonight)