Mini 594 - Satin Doll Showdown - {GAME OVER}

[MafiaSSK]

/confirm

[MafiaSSK]

It will be a pleasure to play again with you Incog. =D

Anyways as a pre-note to everyone: I am not the best Mafia player ever. In fact, some might call me the worst. I am still trying to find my playstyle so I might lurk a little and change my playstyle a bit.

[MafiaSSK]

I really don't get the point of random voting, so no vote for me.

[MafiaSSK]

I really don't get the point of random voting, so no vote for me.

Didn't you random vote in 539?

Sort of kind of.

Also,Erg0 then I'll place a random vote on you

Vote:Ergo

[MafiaSSK]

/prodded (stupid finals), time to try to get this game moving.

I find Erg0's post 68 and Ether's post 73 to be scummy. Ether's 73 reads to me as a veiled attack on Erg0 (by claiming to find something scummy using weak language and backtracking immediately thereafter). Erg0's 78, however, is worse - it looks to me like Erg0's mainly summarizing other peoples' posts and discussing theory without actually showing much personal insight. That looks like IIoA to me (Tar Standard Tell), and at this point in the game it's enough to earn my vote.
r[/b]

Why is discussing theory without showing person insight scummy?

[MafiaSSK]

Okay then quick response to everything.
I find Ergo,Mizzy,Glork,Patrick to be protown. The rest I'm curious about especially Incognito.

[MafiaSSK]

The rest I'm curious about especially Incognito.

What is it about me that you're curious about?

Your playing differently then you did in 539.

[MafiaSSK]

Okay then quick response to everything.
I find Ergo,Mizzy,Glork,Patrick to be protown. The rest I'm curious about especially Incognito.

do you have any sort of reasoning for this?

I re-read the thread and got those vibes from the protown people.

[MafiaSSK]

PATRICK

EVERYONE

<3

Hi person whom I don't know.

[MafiaSSK]

MafiaSSK, can you elaborate a bit more as to

why

you think those people are pro-town? Also, is what Patrick said about me seeming more passive in this game the same thing you were getting at with respect to my play here and my play in 539?

They really just give off that vibe from their posts. I can't identify certain things from there. And yes I have to agree with Patrick on that point.

[MafiaSSK]

If you're talking about Glork finding him town, I simply can't agree with that at this point.

What do you think of SSK? What did you think of Mizzy prior to her Gabe-card?

SSK. That's the one who I couldn't remember before. I didn't like his post #5 or #7. I don't like lists of people that someone finds protown unless they're specifically asked what they think about a person. I especially don't like it when it's just on "vibes." I mean, it's understandable that we somewhat want to find town, but it's more important to find scum, which SSK hasn't done at all. Looking closer at him, I feel comfortable with an

unvote, vote: mafiaSSK

I've actually been trying. I just have so many school projects right now that its hard to do a reread.

[MafiaSSK]

I for one am seeing a heavy emphasis on metagaming here--I think it's a stretch to call 113 and 137 content, and 143 required my prompting. Do you disagree?

And you think this is scummy why?

[MafiaSSK]

Heh.

I see hasdgfas providing a double-standard in Mizzy's favor (she's practically all metagaming, which he's supposed to hate) and, as noted earlier in the post you quoted, lying about the consistency of her play. I think this implies an association.

Why do you ask?

Ah, that makes sense now.

I asked for questioning purposes. I wasn't sure if you were finding some tiny scumtells. I really don't like those. However, it does make sesnse that it could lead to accosiation with each other.

[MafiaSSK]

I asked for questioning purposes. I wasn't sure if you were finding some tiny scumtells. I really don't like those. However, it does make sesnse that it could lead to accosiation with each other.

Okay. So who's scum? Do you seriously have nothing better to do than question the validity of an individual tell every 72 hours?

Its really hard for me to pick out a really scummish person in this game. Its so complex. And I don't have anything better to do than that.

[MafiaSSK]

[qutoe="hasdgfas"]

I asked for questioning purposes. I wasn't sure if you were finding some tiny scumtells. I really don't like those. However, it does make sesnse that it could lead to accosiation with each other.

Okay. So who's scum? Do you seriously have nothing better to do than question the validity of an individual tell every 72 hours?

Its really hard for me to pick out a really scummish person in this game. Its so complex. And I don't have anything better to do than that.

Are you

serious?

In this ENTIRE game, you can't find anything or anyone scummy?
[/quote]
WEll I've already questioned what I have found scummy.

[MafiaSSK]

-Incognito & MafiaSSK:

I took a look at mini game 539. I can't say I noticed anything that makes incognito seem more passive here. As far as MafiaSSK goes, he was active in 539's random voting phase when some pressure was put on him. He didn't really do much after that. He pretty much lurked alot while giving little content. He didn't really give alot analysis or scumhunting until much later in the game. In that game there was reason for him to get replaced since he did not post between Jan 3rd and Jan 29th. He actually asked for replacement on January Second for some FireFox issue. The mod just never really got around to replacing him then since he eventually ended up getting nightkilled there.

Throughout this game MafiaSSK has been lurking quite a bit while posting very little content, aswell. I generally consider such actions as scummy. Even though he's kinda done it before, I can't say I want to give him a pass for now. One thing I did seem to notice as a difference is that in 539 he did vote people he thought were scummy in that game. He didn't go too deeply into why he believed Justin PlayFair and Natude to be scummy early on but he still voted for people he thought was scum. Here he didn't vote during the random stage at first. He had to be prompted for the vote and it was kinda retalitory. He has been sitting on that vote through this game and yet early he said he consider Erg0 town. So I basically think what I wrote about in my 8th post is still relevant.

MafiaSSK who do you suspect?

Okay then quick response to everything.
I find Ergo,Mizzy,Glork,Patrick to be protown. The rest I'm curious about especially Incognito.

If you find Erg0 town for some unknown reason I'd like to know why you are still voting him, because at the moment I believe this statement is very much true about you.

...and I too would like some elaboration on his townlist, since

it's possible [MafiaSSK] just saw Glork's comment on roland and tried to look protown by labelling a third of the game as protown.

Reasonably happy with his comment on Incognito, who does seem more passive than I'm used to seeing from him. Not particularly scummy to me.

At this moment I am leaning towards voting MafiaSSK.

So your basing my meta on only 539? Why not try and look at the ones where I was scum such as in SSBB Smalltown Mafia (I forgot the #.) Also you could find a better, variation of where I was more scummish but yet still a townie in Mini 562. Also the reason why I did label a third of the game protown is the fact that they seem like it. Its hard to label which sentences told me that they were town.

[MafiaSSK]

So your basing my meta on only 539? Why not try and look at the ones where I was scum such as in SSBB Smalltown Mafia (I forgot the #.) Also you could find a better, variation of where I was more scummish but yet still a townie in Mini 562.

MafiaSSK, please tell us outright how to read MafiaSSK. This sounds like sarcasm, but it isn't--I am generally interested in hearing a self-analysis from you.

I'm not really sure how to read myself. I might act a bit scummy due to the way that I type meaning my personality. I really am not sure how to read myself any farther than that.

Also

FOS: Anyone whose analyzing the debates

I really don't see how that is scumhunting. I really just see that as color commenting and as thus pretty useless. I personally believe some of you are scum trying to sidetrack the town from analyzing other things.

[MafiaSSK]

SSK: Analyzing anything will be useful in trying to find scum. Why is it a bad idea to analyze debates? And what do you consider debates? I'd consider the entire game of mafia to be a debate, so you should probably clarify.

I was saying the whole Mizzy and Glork debate. I consider a debate, two or more people talking about a subject. Also, I don't think analyzing a whole debate will be able to find scum? Maybe if you analyze only a certain post, then you can.

[MafiaSSK]

Who's scum?

Is this directed at me?

[MafiaSSK]

Nothing new to add here but /prodded.
I mean all the reasons above noted for Glork make sense for why he's scum unlike Elmo.

[MafiaSSK]

I agree that Tar should not have claimed when he did (both on Day 2 and at only -2L) because now he's rendered himself basically useless for the rest of the game.

For the moment, I don't think I'd be willing to vote for either Tar or Glork based on this alone because Tar's claim was scummy as hell but it was a cop claim that says Glork's scum, so I need to keep all of that in mind. I would rather look at a different target for now, such as SSK.

All of you yesterday who were willing to lynch someone for being useless? *Points to SSK.* I would rather get him replaced but considering that he keeps answering his prods (gnashing of teeth is heard) then I'd be okay lynching him.

Vote: SSK

We're not near a deadline, why try to lynch a lurker?

[MafiaSSK]

@SSK:

I'm pretty much bolding your name so you won't miss this question:

SSK, about this:

Nothing new to add here but /prodded.
I mean all the reasons above noted for Glork make sense for why he's scum unlike Elmo.

What exactly did you not like about the case against Elmo yesterday? What exactly do you like about the case against Glork today?

Another question: Is there any reason you haven't bothered to vote all game yet? I have a theory about this, but I'll wait until you answer first before revealing what I'm thinking.

I didn't like how there were just constant attacks then a lynch. It also seemed just a bit over reachy.
I just like all the points that have been made against him and that they make sense.
As to your last question, I'm just trying out a new playstyle. What was your theory though?

[MafiaSSK]

why try to lynch a lurker?

Why lurk?

Its a playstyle that I find useful at times. It gives me a broader understanding of each player and their general attitude in the game.

[MafiaSSK]

why try to lynch a lurker?

Why lurk?

Its a playstyle that I find useful at times. It gives me a broader understanding of each player and their general attitude in the game.

Could you run that by me again? I don't understand how you understand players more while not interacting with them.

You ge tto understand how aggressive the player is and see how they interact with a lurker. From my experience, scum seem to go after a town lurker much more than a town person would because they know that town will usually agree with lynching a useless townie. However, if it were a scum lurker, the scum usually try to defend the lurker in question.

SSK: What do you find useful about lurking? What is your current understanding of some players (anyone, in some detail), and how has lurking helped that?

I find it easier to understand how certain players interact with a lurker, This usually gives me a better understanding of their alignment. Then, as for a player I would have to say that I have a good understand of hasdfgas. H e seems like scum form his over-aggressiveness towards me being a lurker at the beginning of a game. However, now that he''s quieted down a bit on the subject I think he might be town.
Also, on Glork, he seems to be scum trying to act like town by not paying a lot of attention to me. He didn't do that much suspecting of me at the beginning-now of me. So I'll do a

FOS:Glork

Also, lurking has helped me just see them more clearly. It means that I don't go too aggressively at one player and as thus are not biased against them.

[MafiaSSK]

Also, on Glork, he seems to be scum trying to act like town by not paying a lot of attention to me. He didn't do that much suspecting of me at the beginning-now of me. So I'll do a FOS:Glork

1) How does "not paying a lot of attention" to you translate to "acting like town"?
2) How do you feel I'm scum pretending to be town, rather than just being town?
3) Did you miss the part where I re-read the game overnight? Re-reads tend to create changes in peoples' suspicion levels?
4) How does suspecting you make me scum now?
5) What do you think of Tarh's claim?
6) What do you think of my claim?

1.Not paying a lot of attentions translates to them being town because they don't want to kill what is usually a townie.
2. It feels like your sneaking on with big posts on to the town wagon.
3. I believe I did. I'll try and read that.
4. Same as #1.
5. I find it believeable though I'm not that great at Mafia so who knows.
6. same as 5.

[MafiaSSK]

1.Not paying a lot of attentions translates to them being town because they don't want to kill what is usually a townie.
2. It feels like your sneaking on with big posts on to the town wagon.
3. I believe I did. I'll try and read that.
4. Same as #1.
5. I find it believeable though I'm not that great at Mafia so who knows.
6. same as 5.

1) If every protown player didn't pay attention to others, how would we find and kill scum?
2) What wagon? I don't think anybody has voted you for some time, and my "why Elmo and not SSK?" comments came when Elmo/Cow were the leading wagons.

1. You make a fair point.
2. Well I meant back on day 1.
-----------------------------------------------------

SSK: Some players (Yosarian2, MeMe) have a particular policy of paying special attention to lurkers. How would you analyse such a player with that method?

I would have to sayy that they would be unreadable. I amunsure of how to read people who have a unique playstyle in a game.
---------------------------------------------------------

I didn't like how there were just constant attacks then a lynch. It also seemed just a bit over reachy.
I just like all the points that have been made against him and that they make sense.
As to your last question, I'm just trying out a new playstyle. What was your theory though?

Two competing theories actually:

1) The last time you were scum was that SSBB Smalltown Mafia that you mentioned previously. It seems like the reason you were easily found out by the town in that game was because your votes seemed extremely volatile and swingy. You've also mentioned that your playstyle is in the works or what-have-you. Thus, if you're scum in this game, you might be trying a more reserved playstyle to avoid the level of suspicion that you felt in SSBB.

2) You could just be town who is trying this "town lurker" playstyle like you mentioned previously. I don't think the conclusion that you drew here is entirely accurate though:

You ge tto understand how aggressive the player is and see how they interact with a lurker. From my experience, scum seem to go after a town lurker much more than a town person would because they know that town will usually agree with lynching a useless townie. However, if it were a scum lurker, the scum usually try to defend the lurker in question.

I mean, yes, there might be some truth to it in certain cases, but I think town might go after town lurkers just as much as scum might do the same.

For your first theory, I'm not that great of a Mafia player. I wouldn't be able to change my play style mid-game because of a death in another game.
As for your second theory, I agree with you that there might be some cases where scum equally go after town. I believe though, that the majority of the times Scum do attack the lurker more than town would.

[MafiaSSK]

Sorry for double posting.

Both SSK and Glork were useless during day 1; Glork was just more active. I don't see how it is unfair of me to compare two people, neither of which I have a metagame on, as being useless. And me asking a question because I have no solid read on someone is scummy? The only other game I played with glork on the forums were Tree Stump in which I was a stump when he replaced. I was unaware if he was usually useless like he was in day 1 which is why I asked that question.

I'm not sure what you count as metagame exactly. Do you count metagame as playing with the person in question? If not, then at least I have and I'm not sure about Glork, listed games which you could read and still find the same general info.

[MafiaSSK]

SSK, who are you more inclined to believe at this point, Glork or Tar?

At this point, after doing the conversation with Glork in-thread, I'm inclined to believe his more.

[MafiaSSK]

Today's Monday though.