Mini 584: Sudo_Nym Presents- Over!

[ZeekLTK]

vote: TheSweatpantsNinja

Payback.

[ZeekLTK]

Let's stir the pot a lot.

unvote; vote: CaptainCake

[ZeekLTK]

Are we going to lynch ScumCake or what?

[ZeekLTK]

Why not? Because he's your scumbuddy?

[ZeekLTK]

Nice scummy OMGUS vote from Cake.

[ZeekLTK]

Now, as for why I'm voting Zeek: He's rushed a lynch on Cake for no solid reason, which gives off scum vibes.

First, I never "rushed a lynch"; he's only got 3 votes.

Second, trying to lynch Cake would only be scummy if he were town. We don't know that he's town. If he is scum, then how am I scummy for pushing for the lynch of scum?

If you are trying to say you know he's town then you must be mafia, because only the mafia know who the townies are at this point.

[ZeekLTK]

How does it not make sense? You said it's scummy of me to want him lynched. But how is it scummy if he turns out to be a mafia member?

[ZeekLTK]

Why does that vote count have mafiaSSK voting for 2 people (one of which being himself)?

Because I typed his name instead of Ninja's, that's why. Shut up, I'm modding as hard as I can!

[ZeekLTK]

Also I love the votes against me:

One because I wasn't online the day the roles were sent out and thus was the last to confirm

One OMGUS

One "chainsaw defense" of the guy who cast the OMGUS


lol

[ZeekLTK]

lol TDC. Care to explain how me wanting to lynch Cake is scummy? I can see how you might disagree with it. But to add vote #4 to a player who has done nothing scummy looks very badly for you.

Also there's the fact that you aren't even paying attention to the thread; there was just a vote count 3 posts above yours...


Look at the situation: No one jumped on his bandwagon but everyone is jumping on mine. Why? Maybe because he's scum and I'm not? Hmmmm....

[ZeekLTK]

TSPN isn't voting for Cake, nor has he said he supports my one-man "bandwagon" (as you've called it - please note that I am the only person voting for Cake currently).

And you also failed to answer his question with your OMGUS FoS.

[ZeekLTK]

I'm reading through again and this is something that stuck out to me. Ever since we left the "random voting stage" Iceman only votes or FoSes when someone calls him out on "not scumhunting".

For example:

Unvote, vote icemanE for saying "we're not in the random voting stage anymore but I can't be bothered to scumhunt.

Haha.

FoS: Zeek

I'm not sure I'm ready to lay a vote on him yet because I think we've moved out of the random vote stage, so votes mean more now, but he's rushing a kill for no real reason.

I want you to explain why you unvoted (because we were out of the random voting stage), but didn't actually pursue anyone.

Just because I unvoted without providing info on who I WANT to vote for doesn't mean I'm not pursuing people. Truth be told I unvoted because I think it looks much cooler when it looks like:

Vote: Zeek

...

One wonders what your scumhunting plan is.

...

There are a lot of quotes that I could apply this too, and since you all can't be scum, I have a general blanket question:

How are you planning to help find scum?

I'll give you a hint: Saying every early wagon is based on little logic is not a good strategy.

I'm sorry to inform you but I believe you and Zeek are the minority in thining its a good idea to lynch Cake or anyone else JUST to find out if they're scum. So

FoS: Sweatpants Ninja

. And that's how I plan to find scum.

I especially love the first two quotes, because practically nothing changed in the game other than TSPN kept pressuring ice about "not scumhunting" and somehow that caused him to go from an FoS to a vote against me.

IMO, I think he's doing this because he's mafia, so he's trying to appease the town. He doesn't want people to know he's not trying to catch scum, so when someone (it's mostly been TSPN) says "you're not scumhunting" he responds with an FoS or a vote against someone to try to make it look like he is...

Basically, he's trying too hard to simply *appear* to be scumhunting without actually doing it, which I think is scummy.

unvote; vote iceman

[ZeekLTK]

Exactly the kind of response a scum would have.

[ZeekLTK]

Also, FaerieLord is also probably scum. He's just "FoSing" to support/push the bandwagon against a pro-town player, but he doesn't want to commit a vote so that he won't be held accountable for it later.

Notice how he has not contributed at all and then just comes in here out of nowhere and attacks the easiest target in the game who already has 4 votes? Scummy.

[ZeekLTK]

Hi guys, sorry for not posting much yet.

Reading over the game, Zeek really jumps out at me as being scummy. He says:

Are we going to lynch ScumCake or what?

And then, later, he says:

First, I never "rushed a lynch"; he's only got 3 votes.

Sorry Zeek, but saying "Let's lynch [insert name here] already!" on page 3 is pretty much the definition of rushing a lynch. You are lying, and the only people who have any reason to lie are scum.

Unvote
Vote: ZeekLTK

Okay but how is that scummy? You look more scummy for being so inactive and then just coming out of nowhere to put a vote on the biggest bandwagon.

[ZeekLTK]

Okay, seriously guys.

All I did was spark the game and get it going and all of a sudden I'm on L-2.

Notice my comment was during the random stage AND I never made a case against him (or really pushed it that hard). It's one comment taken way too far by a couple of people. Who stands to benefit by taking it so far? Scum.

If you are a townie (anyone reading this), please go back and look at this bandwagon that's formed on me. I guarantee you'll find scum on it.

[ZeekLTK]

iceman put a 2nd vote on Cake saying "let's stir the pot a little". So I said:

Let's stir the pot a lot.

unvote; vote: CaptainCake

Then the game really wasn't moving so I (jokingly, especially considering how I cast my vote with "let's stir the pot a lot") said:

Are we going to lynch ScumCake or what?

Someone asked "why?" so I said:

Why not? Because he's your scumbuddy?

Obviously this wasn't that serious either.

Then someone (ice) tried to say I "rushed a lynch" on someone and I answered that post with:

Now, as for why I'm voting Zeek: He's rushed a lynch on Cake for no solid reason, which gives off scum vibes.

First, I never "rushed a lynch"; he's only got 3 votes.

Second, trying to lynch Cake would only be scummy if he were town. We don't know that he's town. If he is scum, then how am I scummy for pushing for the lynch of scum?

If you are trying to say you know he's town then you must be mafia, because only the mafia know who the townies are at this point.

Basically wondering why I'm "scummy", pointing out that the lynch was never rushed (one comment was blown out of proportion), and then pointing out that Cake COULD be scum and if he was, lynching him would be a good thing (does anyone dispute this?).

Someone (ice I think) questioned that post so I somewhat further explained/simplified it:

How does it not make sense? You said it's scummy of me to want him lynched. But how is it scummy if he turns out to be a mafia member?

Then Cake said pretty much the exact same thing, so I didn't bother to respond because I'd already addressed it.

-------

So... we've gathered a good bit of info here:

iceman... there's the whole "only vote/FoS after TSPN calls him out (3 times now)" thing.

FairieLord... continually pushing suspicion on me, even though he won't vote for it, by saying I "rushed a lynch" (and continually saying that), which is false (one comment + 2 *unvotes* != rushed lynch).

TDC and Nanosauromo... both pretty much came out of nowhere to cast a bandwagon 4th and 5th vote on me for very weak reasoning

[ZeekLTK]

I'd like to know why Zeek, in his seeming re-read of the thread, ignored my post which accused him of merely attacking all those who attacked him. Since this is a significant reason why I suspect him, I'm concerned that he'd just ignore this.

That's what I always do when I'm town, ask TSPN.

[ZeekLTK]

I'll also say that my

FoS: ZeekLTK

remains and is even a bit stronger now, since he has tried to keep his head down some time now (seemingly to sneak away from the limelight previously aimed at him since new topics has popped up).

It's been like 2 days since I posted, jeez. Calm down, it's not like I was posting all over the forum and not posting here, I just wasn't online.

I disagree. -1 is a little too late for claiming, since someone could hammer before role discussion could be made. And sometimes, scum will want to go 1 for 1 (I'd think about doing it if he claimed vig)

So yes, maybe we can wait for the rest to come, but -2 is, IMO, the best time to claim.

What is this suppose to mean?

So basically you're admitting that you are scum and if I'm a vig you'd quicklynch me (to go "1 for 1")?

unvote; vote: FaerieLord

[ZeekLTK]

So basically you're admitting that you are scum and if I'm a vig you'd quicklynch me (to go "1 for 1")?

Where the fuck did I say that? You fail to notice that I want the claim before -1. At -2. How can I quick lynch you when you are at -2? Please explain this to me. Also, how can I vote you again? My vote is already on you.

Damn man, I'm loving my vote even more every minute

I quoted you... I'll do it again if you like:

I disagree. -1 is a little too late for claiming, since someone could hammer before role discussion could be made. And sometimes, scum will want to go 1 for 1

(I'd think about doing it if he claimed vig)

So yes, maybe we can wait for the rest to come, but -2 is, IMO, the best time to claim.

What is that all about? A couple people have asked that (including me in the last post) and you still haven't answered it.

What even brought up the vig at all? And what the heck are you trying to say with: "I'd think about doing it (I assume by "doing it" you mean "scum going 1 for 1" as you previously said in the sentence) if he claimed vig (why would you assume that I would claim vig or even suggest that I might be a vig or rolefish to try and get the vig to say something?)"

[ZeekLTK]

hmm...opportunistic you say...Dude, the whole game is opportunistic. We pick apart what little tidbits of information and reactions we can until people break. So yes, I am opportunistic as well as everyone else that is playing this game. Bad Logic Lowell.

vote: Lowell

Also I find it interesting that he (Lowell) attacked Johoohno for "not having a clear position regarding [me]" and yet didn't say a word as to what he is just as unclear on the same issue. This is all in his "recap":

56,58- greasy, ice attack zeek w/ FOSs [a little bit off...]
60- cake OMGUSs, votes zeek
73- ice votes zeek [mediocre reason]
88- zeek points out the dumbness of the votes against him [good]

He doesn't like greasy and ice's attack against me ("a little bit off"), he agrees that Cake's vote was an OMGUS, he thinks ice only has a "mediocre" reason for voting me, and he agreed that all the votes on me were "dumb" (johoohno, cake, and ice).

And then he goes on to say he would vote for me at the deadline, for no apparent reason at all.

Hmmm....

[ZeekLTK]

I am also pleased that Natirasha (reluctant poster) is now replaced by Lowell (eager poster)

Eager, for now. Lowell was also in the game with TSPN and I and was replaced because he was too inactive...

[ZeekLTK]

I briefly commented on Lowell because it was late at night, I was just checking the thread briefly and didn't have time to make a full response.

But okay, what do you want me to address?

I "missed" a post by Marmalade partially because I was responding to Johoohno's post (which was right next to it) and partially because it didn't appear to be anything important to respond to.

Yes, the post accused me of attacking people who attack me. So? Yes I do that. Congrats. Now please tell me how that is scummy though.

It's easier (for me, at least,) to find scum by seeing how people are attacking known townies rather than to try to find scum between people who are attacking each other of whom I don't know either role.

At this point in the game (Day 1!) the only townie I know of is me, so anyone that attacks me seems more scummy than anything else, because I know they most likely have ulterior motives other than "trying to win for the town". Especially when I haven't really done anything to warrant being attacked.

For example, this is what has happened on Day 1:

-I made an off-handed comment saying "are we going to lynch Cake or what?"

-Some people wondered about this, but only FoSed me and didn't vote.

-I responded to these "suspicions" by pointing out that no one knows Cake's role, so he could be scum, and if he was that wouldn't really make me suspicious now, would it?

-After this cake OMGUS voted for me (so why is it "scummy" if I attack people who attack me, but it's not when Cake does it?) and iceman voted for me to try to prove to TSPN that he was "scum hunting" (even though I don't think he actually was).

-Then, on 3 votes, FaerieLord and TDC, two players who had not contributed to the game at all up to this point, come in with very opportunistic votes against me. (to be fair, Faerie waited a bit to actually vote, but continued to try to attack me while using "FoS").

-Okay, back up for a second. All I did was make a comment and then question the logic of some FoS against me and all of a sudden I have 5 votes against me. And the fact that I know I'm a townie gives me good reason to assume that some of these votes are not genuine townie votes, they are opportunistic scum votes who are trying to mislynch a townie.

So, Marmalade, what course of action do you propose would be better at finding and rooting out the scum who have voted for me other than to attack them back?

[ZeekLTK]

However, given recent posts by MafiaSSK I would consider voting for him if no one else wants to try to figure out which scum have voted for me.

[ZeekLTK]

ZeekLTK 5- CaptainCake, icemanE, TDC, Nanosauromo, FaerieLord

Basically these 5 people, and especially their motives for voting, should be looked at.

[ZeekLTK]

(Deja vu): The problem is, zeek, is that

we don't know you're town.

And how easy is it for scum to make that argument? I don't have a problem with OMGUS votes (like, I hate it when I make a case on someone who's voted for me and they try to dismiss it with OMGUS), but when your lead argument is "they voted for me", to us, that's useless information, and its a bad argument. And people who make bad arguments tend to be scum. So, OMGUS is scummy. And definitely unconvincing.

Okay but just for a second give me the benefit of the doubt and look at each of those players in this game (and their reason for voting for me).

For this brief period just assume that I'm a townie; do you feel that all 5 of them had a valid reason for voting me or do you think one or two of them made a huge stretch just to put their vote on a bandwagon against a townie?

If you can go through and, while assuming I am a townie, not find anything wrong with any of the votes against me, then by all means feel free to suspect me. But I don't think this will be the case.

[ZeekLTK]

I will look at them, but I'd like others to as well.

Draw your own conclusions.

[ZeekLTK]

I cast a third vote for Cake in #32 saying "let's stir the pot a lot" (a reference to iceman's response about his seemingly random FoS against cake).

No one says anything about this vote and the game is not really getting anywhere so in post #55 I just make a comment "are we going to lynch Cake or what?"

Soon after, post #58, iceman quotes TSPN's question of him (ice) scum hunting and FoS me saying I am "rushing a kill".

Post #60 Cake votes for me, saying it is because I had no good reason to vote for him (some [not just me, Greasy Spot and Lowell to name a few] call this OMGUS). Also I should point out that my vote on him was never intended to be for any particular reason (the "let's stir the pot" comment proves this).

Post #68 and #69 FaerieLord and Marmalade both say "I find the cake wagon uninteresting" (or some variation of that).

Post #73, TSPN has previously called out iceman for "not scum hunting" so iceman votes for me (third vote). He says "OMGUS votes are not scummy" (because I said "nice OMGUS vote from Cake"), again says I am making a "push for a kill" (even though I have not said anything further about Cake [other than pointing out his OMGUS vote] since BEFORE ice FoSed me).

Post #76 I explain to iceman that I never "rushed a lynch" (because really all I did was make one comment). Then I point out that Cake *could* be scum, and therefore I wouldn't be too scummy for lynching scum now would I?

#77 ice says he will assume everyone is town unless they give him a reason not to.

#78 Marmalade says the argument between ice and I is about "play-style differences" and says that won't help the town.

#79-83 we (ice, Marmalade, and I) discuss this.

#84 ice *admits* that my logic from #76 was correct: if Cake was scum then I would not be scummy for getting him lynched.

#85 Cake still attacks me for not having a valid reason to lynch him (but, again, I never intended to)

#88 I point out how I have the most votes and yet all 3 of them are bogus (Lowell later agrees with me in his recap)

#89 TDC suggests that even if Cake was scum, I could be "bussing him" (lol seriously? he's not even half way to a lynch at this point). TDC also makes some valid points regarding other parts of the game, asks some good questions, but then he puts vote #4 against me. I find this vote to be odd and opportunistic since a) TDC hasn't participated in the game up until this point, b) he asked all those questions of different people, you'd think he would wait to get some responses before he cast a vote... especially since the vote he cast was the 4th against someone.

#90 I call out TDC for putting that 4th vote on me for practically no reason.

#92 TDC responds to me, mostly calls me out because I didn't have a reason for voting Cake but keep in mind my vote was never intended to have a reason, it was during the end of the random stage, and I haven't said anything about trying to get Cake lynched (aka other people to vote for him) since post #55 (a post that wasn't all that serious anyways).

#94 iceman attacks TSPN saying "you and zeek are in the minority of wanting to lynch Cake". He FoS: TSPN after TSPN continues to pressure ice about "not scum hunting". (#95 - I point out TSPN was never in favor of lynching Cake.)

#99 FaerieLord comes out of nowhere (hasn't posted since #68) with a long post of my quotes and his one-liners right below them. Concludes with a FoS on me and TSPN. Basically he says I am "rushing a lynch" (even though I haven't said anything that would attempt to get people to vote for Cake since post #55) and then questions what I said in #76 about "cake could be scum", and then attacks me for not having a reason for my vote... (already addressed this above)

#101 TSPN says "on Day 1 you have to start somewhere, and Zeek's vote started us somewhere". Apparently he is the only person to realize my vote wasn't serious...

#104 TDC questions TSPN's previous posts (about pressure and bandwagoning) but does so mostly only to try to get TSPN to view me as scummy.

#105 I point out how iceman only votes or FoSes when TSPN calls him out for "not scum hunting".

#106 iceman says that is ridiculous, tries to defend his vote and FoSes but a lot of the reasoning is poor. (for example says he FoSed TSPN because he "supported me", but he never did; and says he voted for me because I "pushed a lynch" but again, that never really happened either). So either iceman is bad at reading the game or he is just grasping for reasons to defend himself.

#108 I call out FaerieLord because he attacked me but never voted, just kinda tried to push the bandwagon along with an FoS.

#109 TSPN agrees that FaerieLord was scummy (moreso than ice apparently).

#110 Faerie says he didn't vote because he didn't want to put me at L-1 (it would have only been L-2)

#111 Faerie says "I'm not the only one who hasn't contributed much" and admits he "lurked through the random voting stage"

#113 Nanosauromo comes out of nowhere and says (I'll quote him actually, this is by far the scummiest post of the game):

Hi guys, sorry for not posting much yet.

Reading over the game, Zeek really jumps out at me as being scummy. He says:

Are we going to lynch ScumCake or what?

And then, later, he says:

First, I never "rushed a lynch"; he's only got 3 votes.

Sorry Zeek, but saying "Let's lynch [insert name here] already!" on page 3 is pretty much the definition of rushing a lynch. You are lying, and the only people who have any reason to lie are scum.

Unvote
Vote: ZeekLTK

He really takes everything out of context here. The first quote was #55, and I never said anything to that effect (or any other effect to get people to vote for Cake) since. This just reeks of a player who has been inactive/lurking coming in, seeing who has the most votes, and then going back and finding a reason to vote for them. If this isn't a clear scum tactic I don't know what is.

unvote; vote Nanosauromo

Okay, continuing...


#114 I call out Nanosauromo for being inactive and then voting for me (5th vote), but at the time I didn't realize how scummy that actually was.

#116 Marmalade says what I did (voting Cake and making that comment) wasn't bad (thank you). But he doesn't like how I attack people who attack me.

#117 TDC quotes a question he asked TSPN from #104 and says "quoted for not being answered yet". Basically the question is phrased in a way that if TSPN answers "no" (which is really the logical answer) then TDC will say, "so then you should be suspicious of Zeek and vote for him".

Okay, now let's step back for a second here. Post #89, when TDC enters the game, he has lots of questions for several players (Johoonho, Cake, etc.) None of these questions were ever answered, and they were all fairly relevant to the game. So why did TDC not press these issues? Surely those questions were more important than asking TSPN to change his mind on my behavior. It seems to me, TDC only came into the game with a slew of questions to give himself the opportunity to go in any direction and he didn't particularly care which direction it went in as long as it went against a townie. It happened to go against me, so that is the one he pursued. His questions were ignored by others, but as they had really nothing to do with attacking me, he just forgot about them as well. If he was REALLY interested in having those questions answered, he would have done the same as he's done here, and bring them up again for those people to answer. This shows he's not really interested in finding the correct answers (aka being able to find scum), he just wants to find answers that push his own agenda, which at this point is trying to mislynch me.

FoS: TDC

(would vote if not for Nano earlier).


Okay back to the recap:

#118 FaerieLord says "rushing a lynch is scummy" and quotes Marmalade about me attacking people.

#119 Johoohno gives a good summary of the case against me:
• Last to confirm (weak scum tell as said before).
• Eager to vote for CaptainCake - #55 – (has been brushed away as a joke, but it really didn’t sit well with the crowd here).
• Illogical posts (#76) which is commented in #85 by CaptainCake. This is something ZeekLTK avoids responding to, instead he moves on to something else, namely the votes on himself (#87 & #88).
• Doesn’t really explain his vote on CaptainCake which he also kept all the way up to #105.

This clearly is not very indicative of scum and Johoohno realizes this and unvotes for me, but puts an FoS (understandably) on me.

Also I want to point out that for the third point, I stopped responding to it because in #84 iceman agreed with me about that point.


#120 iceman tells Johoohno that it was a smart choice to give me the benefit of the doubt (so why does ice leave his vote?)

#122 FaerieLord says we need something to "rejuvenate the thread" and wants me to claim (I'm on L-3 at this point).

#125 I don't claim but I try to give as brief a summary as possible as to how I've seen the game play out and conclude with my suspicions on various people who have voted for me.

#126 FaerieLord says his case isn't based on the "rushing a lynch" comment (uhm.... that's all you've been saying it's based on all day!) but rather on my "over defensiveness" (this is the first time that's been brought up, maybe Marmalade's post gave him the idea and now he's trying to run with this because his other point was weak?) Then he tries to say I might have been bussing Cake (okay, seriously???) then says I over reacted (uhm, don't you think some of the people who jumped on me over reacted to the stupid comment I made?) then concludes with the fact that I never made a case (again, forgetting that it happened during the random stage).

#127 TDC continues to attack me. I'd like to take this time to point out that other than his first post, he has done nothing this entire game except attack me... he does question why I should claim though.

#128 TDC points out that I am only on L-3, not L-2

#130 FaerieLord thanks TDC for pointing that out and then votes for me (apparently Faerie is afraid to cast L-1 or hammer votes because then he'll be suspicious for killing a townie)

#132 Marmalade wants to know why I didn't respond to his #116 comment

#133 I tell him that's how I play when I am town (I attack those who attack me)

#134 Marmalade has further questions (that are pretty much the same as I just addressed)...

#136 TSPN says Faerie is rolefishing and votes for him

#137 TDC finally looks at other players in the game and echoes TSPN that he also feels that Faerie is rolefishing

#142 Faerie again outlines his "case" against me:

1)Rushing thing
2)Bad logic when it comes to lynching
3)Over Defensiveness
4)OMGUS

Again, most of that is garbage (especially #1 and #2)


#143 Lowell joins us

#144 TDC finally remembers his questions from a long time ago and reminds Cake about them. Also points out several players haven't commented on the issue, including someone named "Rage" (we have one in this game?)

#145 nm Rage is in a different game

#146 TSPN outlines why FaerieLord's points in #142 are garbage

#147 Faerie makes the "slip up" (IMO) about the vig (saying "Scum would go 1 for 1 sometimes (I would if you were the vig)." Apparently no one else [or at least not Marmalade] finds that wording to be odd. I still do. Also still wants me to claim apparently.

#148 TDC questions the "vig" part of that quote.

#151 Cake makes a rare appearance only to tell us that he is going to be gone longer (must have been prodded)

#153 iceman is waiting for Lowell (why not comment on the other stuff that's happened?)

#155-#156 TSPN and Johoohno both vote for MafiaSSK

#157 TDC seems to have backed off from me and says he is considering voting MafiaSSK, but isn't quite ready to drop his vote (I dunno what else needs to be discussed regarding me)

#158 Lowell's long summary...

#159 ... leads him to (incorrectly IMO) suspect Johoohno for FoSing me, wonder about the Cake wagon (wasn't much of a wagon), call out Greasy Spot for some posts, say Nano's post was "solid town" because of WIFOM (are you kidding me??? [I missed this the first time because I hadn't really remembered Nano's post being so bad]), and says Marmalade is probably town. Votes for Greasy.

#161 I question FaerieLord's "vig" comment and vote for him because of it (it's a better reason than Cake, eh? :p)

#162 FaerieLord, instead of addressing or explaining it says "where the fuck did I say that?" (even though I QUOTED HIM in #161)

#164 Greasy points out that the posts Lowell is VOTING him for aren't really that scummy (they aren't at all IMO).

At this point I will

FoS: Lowell

for trying to tell us Nano is town (in his recap) and attacking Greasy, who had been inactive for a while, for virtually nothing.

#167 I quote Faerie again to show him the vig quote and again ask him what the hell he was talking about.

#170 FaerieLord says "Nothing brought up the vig. I just said that if I was scum and someone claimed vig, I'd quick lynch him. Because vigs go 2 for 1 at times, which is too much for a 3 team mafia to handle." - I find it very odd that he would bring this up, or even paint a situation where he would be scum. This reeks of some kind of outside knowledge or something because, as town, I can't figure out why he would be talking about a vig or anything to that effect at this moment.

As if I couldn't have by now, I definitely will

FoS: FaerieLord

for this.

#171 FaerieLord says he is not feeling the Greasy Spot case (similar to what he said about Cake earlier).

***Also this last post by Faerie again he brings up bussing (this is like the third time he has). Seriously. The situation of me voting for Cake is maybe the worst situation of "bussing" that scum could ever do because there was no attention on either of us really before that happened. The fact that you keep bringing this up means you are still stretching for any reason to make a case against me, which is very scummy.

----


So basically in this recap I have changed my vote to Nano and I feel TDC, Faerie, and Lowell are all suspicious thus far.

To add... after I FoSed TDC I felt a lot of his posts were more pro-town, but that still doesn't negate all his posts that lead to my FoS.

But those are just my feelings based on this recap. Anyone else is free to add their two cents and pick out something I missed, or explain how I misinterpreted something.



To make it easier for the mod:

unvote; vote Nanosauromo

[ZeekLTK]

Did you really need to quote that wall of text? :/

It makes a point, so yes.

\

I fail to see what your point is. Part of why I did that was:

So look at them. Give us something more than "they voted for me."

And part was I wanted to go over everything again anyways and see if I could catch anything I missed.

[ZeekLTK]

I made a recap of the game... how is that over-defensive? Or are you just against anyone doing something that might cause them to find scum?

[ZeekLTK]

EBWOP: "How is that over-defensive?

Or even defensive at all??

"

[ZeekLTK]

So I have read a few people say they find Nano's play suspicious so far (due to his bandwagon vote), and others who claim they are "pressuring lurkers" (who could possibly be lurking more than Nano?) and yet I'm still the only person who is voting for him...?

------

TDC you "addressed" my posts but didn't really give me anything to address back...

You did say:

I can't really judge whether you misrepresented FaerieLord as much as he claims without reading the mentioned posts again, will do that tomorrow.

Did you ever do this?

[ZeekLTK]

I disagreed with you (on facts!), so I'd expect you to either say something like "Fair enough"/"Sorry, I was wrong" or "No, you're wrong, because.."

Not really... this was your post.

Fairly huge post by you, there.

TDC suggests that even if Cake was scum, I could be "bussing him" (lol seriously? he's not even half way to a lynch at this point).

iceman had suggested that you would be cleared if Cake turned up scum and I pointed out that while that would certainly lower suspicion, one should always think about all possibilities.

Basically the question is phrased in a way that if TSPN answers "no" (which is really the logical answer) then TDC will say, "so then you should be suspicious of Zeek and vote for him".

Well, let's look at his post and my question:

By attacking him, you're punishing him for pressuring cake, which is a pro-town thing to do. Pressuring people on day 1 = good.

Are you saying that if I voted you right now and said "Can we get TSPN lynched, now?" that would put pressure on you? That that would be pro-town behaviour from me?

I have no idea how he could have answered "no" without contradicting his own post, so how do you think could that have lead to me telling him to vote for you?

Okay, now let's step back for a second here. Post #89, when TDC enters the game, he has lots of questions for several players (Johoonho, Cake, etc.) None of these questions were ever answered, and they were all fairly relevant to the game. So why did TDC not press these issues?

This was because unlike the others who I asked questions, TSPN had already posted in the thread since I asked (so I assumed he had ignored/overread my question).
Natirasha was soon replaced, Johoonho answered in his next post and Cake has not really been part of the game since then.

I can't really judge whether you misrepresented FaerieLord as much as he claims without reading the mentioned posts again, will do that tomorrow.

For the first part, "okay", but like I have said before, if you honestly think this is a situation of "bussing" most likely you are just grasping for some reason to suspect me.

Second part, you said:

By attacking him, you're punishing him for pressuring cake, which is a pro-town thing to do.

We must have very different opinions about the concept of "pressure" in this game.
Are you saying that if I voted you right now and said "Can we get TSPN lynched, now?" that would put pressure on you? That that would be pro-town behaviour from me?

Seriously?

You are clearly trying to get him to "agree" with you that what I did was "not pro-town"... and thus I can only assume that if you managed to do that you would call on him to vote for me.

Third part, "okay" I initially missed Johoohno's answer but you admitted that 2 of the 3 people never did answer, so I was still (mostly) correct in pointing that out.

Fourth part was nothing for me to respond to, it was something you said you would do.

[ZeekLTK]

A couple posts ago I said I didn't want to lynch him. If you read my post I don't say he's guilty, I just say he's not necessarily innocent, because we don't have proof for that either.

Yet you still have your vote on me...

no one else finds it odd that ice is constantly saying "I don't think we should lynch [the player I have my vote for]"??

[ZeekLTK]

Actually, iceman's voting for mafiassk.

I shouldn't have checked this thread (and posted in it) so late at night. :p

[ZeekLTK]

The reason, in case people didn't know, that it is inconclusive, is that FaerieLord and others don't seem to have found any games where Zeek was scum to compare. The fact is,

this could be Zeek's playstyle not only as town but as scum as well.

Thus, it could be a null tell. I understand that that doesn't make him scummy, but it is odd to consider someone

innocent

because of those actions. (In comparison to myself, for instance, since I consider Zeek to be more innocent than others because the case against him is pretty crap.)

Well you are most certainly welcome to read other games I've been in. Just click the "wiki" button under my post...

[ZeekLTK]

unvote; vote MafiaSSK

Partially to put pressure on him (8 posts in almost a month? come on) partially because he's not even trying to help the town win when he does post:

-MafiaSSK hasn't voted since his random vote (for Nano).

-MafiaSSK hasn't really asked questions of anyone (no scum hunting).

-The only content MafiaSSK has provided has been an odd accusation of me and TSPN "defending each other" which others have pointed out was not really the case AND the "don't vote for ice" comment.

[ZeekLTK]

unvote

Ice, if you are "bored" then why don't you try to find scum like you said you were going to?

So now that mafia has more or less destroyed the rhythm of this game,

I think I'm gonna go back over everything and see if anyone else jumps out at me.

I think everyone else should do the same. I'll report back later tonight or tomorrow.

Did nothing jump out at you? or did you just say this and then decide that was too much work for scum to do?

[ZeekLTK]

BTW finals week is almost over for me so I'll be able to post more after this week.

[ZeekLTK]

So what is the deal with Nano? Obviously he is going to get replaced, but does no one else find his bandwagoning scummy?

The new guy is just going to come in and say "sorry, I don't know what he was thinking by bandwagoning, I guess he just thought Zeek was scummy at the time" or something to try to get a free pass out of it.

[ZeekLTK]

Also

unvote; vote iceman

[ZeekLTK]

The rule says

3. Post an Unvote in bold before changing your vote. E.g. Unvote Vote: Someone Else

I didn't remember whether I had revoted since unvoting mafiassk so I figured I might as well throw an unvote in front just to make sure I was abiding by the rules...

[ZeekLTK]

While I am voting for ice right now, I'd kind of prefer to lynch someone who is less active (aka Nano) because regardless of ice's alliance, I think it can only help if he is alive later in the game because we have a lot of content and interaction to analyze vs. someone who no one knows anything about or has a read on one way or the other (aka Nano).

Plus the mod is struggling for a replacement, let's help him out and get rid of Nano anyways.

Seriously this is Nano:

-Random vote
-No posts for a week
-Vote for a townie who has the most votes (for no good reason at all)
-Go MIA again

Yeah I understand he hasn't been on the site since that post (or at least hasn't posted) but seriously, his bandwagon vote put me on L-2 and it was post #113 in the game. He had 112 posts to go over (okay not *quite* that many since some were mod posts and irrelevant stuff, but that still leaves a lot) and all he does is single out the easiest townie target and make up some BS to make it look like he has a reason for his vote? Clearly a scum move.

unvote; vote: Nano

[ZeekLTK]

What is this attack on me for "not reading"?... uhm, the mod JUST SAID:

Mod Note: I'm now fairly close to replacing MafiaSSK. However,

I will need to keep looking for a Nano-replacement.

"Still looking" implies he has been looking and still has not found one. So how is it incorrect for me to say he is "struggling to find a replacement?"

Also what do you expect from Nano's replacement? Is he going to admit he was trying to push a bandwagon against a townie? No, so all he's going to do is come in and say "hey, I don't know why Nano voted like that, I know it looks scummy but [some excuse]"... I think we have a strong scumtell (bandwagoning after providing very little content) so I'm willing to vote for him because of it.

Plus, TSPN, this is exactly what Shaka did in 533. His first post was virtually the exact same thing as Nano; They come in later in the game (remember, Nano didn't really post until #113) and ignore everything else that happened and just vote for the easiest town target (who has the most votes already) for whatever reason they could come up with...

[ZeekLTK]

I still would like to lynch Nano.

[ZeekLTK]

Yes, but I already said (in post #327):

regardless of ice's alliance, I think it can only help if he is alive later in the game because we [will] have a lot of content and interaction to analyze vs. someone who no one knows anything about or [doesn't have] a read on one way or the other (aka Nano).

[ZeekLTK]

No the case on him is him being "upset" that we might not lynch someone that had a bandwagon going against them (and which iceman had jumped on). And also because he's made several "odd"/suspicious comments throughout the day.

And this is like the ninth post in a row where you've misrepresented what has happened in the game.

[ZeekLTK]

You are frustrated because you're scum and not getting your way.

Since I know you read 533 (you replaced in and played for a little bit), I know that you can attest that I was 100% correct on everything I said before I was lynched in that game (at least on what has been proven so far); where I had constantly said who was town (Michel and you [as soupfly]) and who was not (Skruffs and Shaka). So I think I know what I'm doing. And I think you know it as well, and that's why you are frustrated/trying to discredit me - because apparently I'm not on your team (I'm on the town's team), so it's not in your interests to listen to or agree with me.

--

But, okay, listen to your case:

-MafiaSSK has made some weird comments ("don't vote for him", etc.) and has lurked.

That's about it. Yeah it's odd, but not necessarily scummy.

-Iceman (among others) wanted to lynch him for this. Others have changed their mind but iceman hasn't yet. Okay...

Also, (what you seem to have forgotten even though you were voting for, and trying to make a case against him) Iceman also had some odd interactions earlier in the game (during the whole Cake thing) AND the whole thing where TSPN called him out for not scumhunting 3 times and him FoS/voting after that (which I called attention to). This stuff is more scummy to me than the mafiaSSK thing, but you completely disregard this for some reason. Maybe because you aren't really scumhunting, you are just using the most recent thing you've seen to spin it against him?

Do I find ice suspicious? Yes. But I think we can do better than lynching him today, so I'm not voting for him.

For example, Nano, who has made a whole 2 posts, but has been scummier than either of those two (and is why I want to lynch him).

Then there is you, who came in calling for my lynch with several FoS's (rather than votes) to gauge the support you'd get, and then finally voting for me when it looked like there was enough support for it... only to backtrack when I pointed out how ridiculous the bandwagon was against me and others agreed that your case (which you over-exaggerated and tried to use several times to try to get people to vote for me) was crap. Plus, as I vastly exaggerated with the "ninth post in a row", there have been several (maybe not "nine", but still a good number of) posts of yours which indicate an odd (read: not pro-town) viewpoint of the game, or simply make inaccurate statements (for example the other page you tried to attack me about "not reading" or something, but then when I quoted the mod to show what I was talking about you didn't even acknowledge it and simply moved on to try to attack me with something else).

Plus there was the whole part where you attempted to get me to claim when there was no need to. Oh yeah, that was a real pro-town move...

I still want to lynch Nano, but I almost wouldn't mind lynching you either at this point.

[ZeekLTK]

And what, if anything, have I "gotten out of" in this game?

You make it seem like I've played so scummy but no one is voting for me.

We already debunked the whole early bandwagon against me (and how all those reasons were crap), so go on... I'd love to hear this case that is so obvious to you that it has you in such a fit (as indicated by your last post).

[ZeekLTK]

@ ZeekLTK

: Since you're worried the replacements are just going to skip back reading, this might be a good opportunity to put together some questions for them.

I didn't necessarily say that. I just said that anyone who replaces Nano is just going to say "yeah, I don't know why he did that. It wasn't me so I can't explain it" or something and basically get a free pass out of Nano's scummy action.

So you either found what he did scummy or you didn't. I obviously did, so that's why I was willing to lynch him despite his lack of content, because he's not going to come back and explain himself so all you can do is look at the action - a bandwagon vote (L-2) against a townie with very weak evidence against him while ignoring everything else in the thread that happened before the vote (100+ posts)... to me I think that is enough to lynch him on.

[ZeekLTK]

How am I "very, very, wrong"? Is there a chance that he could be town? I suppose... although I don't see how a pro-town player would come into the game on post #113 and ignore 90% of what has happened so far and just put a player on L-2 for very weak reasoning. That doesn't seem pro-town to me. Even if you don't know the role of the player he put on L-2 (which I do, and that makes his vote even worse), then you still have to admit it looked suspicious as hell.

But there is no way you can tell me you have a "town read" off of him, which seems to be what you are suggesting by telling me I'm "very, very, wrong" by assuming that he is scum.

[ZeekLTK]

I suppose... although I don't see how a pro-town player would come into the game on post #113 and ignore 90% of what has happened so far and just put a player on L-2 for very weak reasoning. That doesn't seem pro-town to me.

You know what doesn't seem very protown to me? Someone trying to lynch a lurker. You know what else? Someone making OMGUS cases. You know what else? Somebody who thinks everyone has to assume he is town

Those are the things that don't seem protown to me

I love how you completely ignore Nano's actions to push your agenda (attacking me).

You are scum, so I doubt this conversation will be very constructive (because you have no intention of seeing the game for the good of the town, or negatively when it comes to the actions of your scumbuddies), but I'll still ask you this: So you are saying that making basically your first post in the game on post #113 to put a player on L-2 for extremely weak reasoning, while failing to address (or even acknowledge) anything else that has happened in the game, is good play or pro-town?

Nano's vote was such an obvious mafia move... and Faerie's insistence on defending him by trying to deflect the attention on me (combined with all the other scummy stuff he's done) is pretty obvious that the two are working together (against the town).

[ZeekLTK]

and I suggest you forget my predecessor all together.

Thank you for confirming to me that you are scum.

This is EXACTLY what Skruffs and Shaka said in 533. Guess what they were? Not pro-town...

[ZeekLTK]

Ah for some reason I thought TSQ was Nano.

That vote count is wrong. Mafia was never voting me and obviously I was never voting myself.

Nano and Faerie were the people voting me IIRC...

But still that is a huge scumtell... trying to tell people to forget everything the guy you replaced did. Why? Because he was scummy? Just because you are a replacement doesn't mean you get a free pass. Trying to do so is pretty anti-town.

[ZeekLTK]

#1 I thought you were Nano (as I quickly realized I was wrong and made another post stating so), so calm down - but I read your posts and made a quick response to it under that assumption.

#2 Your numerous defenses of Faerie, another highly suspicious player, is noted.

#3 You said on Page 6 you would be willing to vote for/lynch me. lol. That was the whole problem with the bandwagon. What was the point of it? There was no case on me. Yet it swelled to 5 votes (nearly half of the game). Obviously it is not going to do that for no reason unless there are mafia pushing it, so yeah, that's where I am going to start when I'm looking for mafia - attacking the people who were on that wagon.

Who was on it?

Johoohno, but his was a random vote from the random stage and he later took it off, so it's not very likely that he is scum, as he could have easily just left it on there and let the votes keep piling up.

Cake, an OMGUS vote against me, but that was also during the [somewhat] random stage (as was my vote on him) so not too suspicious there.

Iceman was the first person to jump on my "let's lynch cake" statement and cast his vote accordingly. This is a null tell because it could be opportunistic scum, or it could be an over eager townie looking for possibly the first scumtell of the game (although, as I've said, I don't really see the comment as scummy considering the stage of the game and the context of it - following my vote in which my reason was "let's stir the pot"). Plus there is the whole "scumhunting" thing between him and TSPN (3 different occassions). Overall, that's why I don't want to lynch ice yet, because I think we can get more information out of him by keeping him around longer.

Next TDC Faerie and Nano all come in from not participating to full on attack of me (which is all the more suspicious to me because there really is no reason for these guys to vote for me - unlike the first three people who are - so this reeks of opportunism, which is what scum do)

So let's look at them individually.

TDC had not posted anything before his attack on me. He came in with a fairly long post in which he examined several aspects of the game (Johoohno, Cake, etc) and also voted for me. So while, again, this *could* be an opportunistic vote, it could also be a legit attempt at trying to be a good townie (but, again, misguided).

TDC later pushes the "case" for a few posts after I respond to him, but he also looks elsewhere in the game. For now I'm more inclined to lean towards "town", or at least "null-tell".

Faerie had made a comment earlier in the game saying "the Cake wagon is uninteresting to me" or something along those lines. So he was around when Cake and ice were (somewhat expectedly) attacking me, and at that time he decided he'd like to just ignore what was going on.

Then when TDC came in with a vote all of a sudden Faerie changes his tune and decides he would like to try to build a case against me (out of nothing, which I continually point out). He won't vote for me though, he just uses FoS. After Nano votes Faerie gets more aggressive, but still won't cast a vote. Then Johoohno unvotes and apparently Faerie is worried that the bandwagon is dying, so he does cast a vote. Why? I think he is getting worried that the bandwagon is slipping away, so he wants to revive it.

And then he calls for a claim for no reason. And seriously, what is the benefit of getting someone to claim on Day 1 (especially when there is no case against them?), what does he expect? Does he want me to claim doctor or cop? That only helps the mafia. What if I claim vanilla? Then what good is that because there is no way to prove it other than to have the cop investigate me (which is, again, no good for the town). He then makes an odd comment about if I claimed vig and says he would "go 1 for 1 if I was" (talking in the perspective of a scum - why would a townie do that??) The whole claim thing was very odd/suspicious. Like what was the point? If I had hinted that I had an investigation result, then yeah, force me to claim. If I hinted that I was going to do something at night, yeah, ask me what it was. But all I did was say (during the random voting stage) "are we going to lynch Cake?" Oh wow, that's really a great reason to try to get a claim out of someone.

And then you (TSQ) say Faerie backing down is pro-town. I'd say it's null. Because scum know the people they are attacking are not scum, so it's not necessarily in their best interest to put so much attention on themselves by attacking a player they know will turn up to prove them wrong.

For another 533 reference see Shaka... he spent all of his time attacking me to get me lynched. He succeeded, but then when I came up town (as he obviously knew I would), then the town turned and lynched him. Horrible play from him because he didn't consider the consequences of getting me lynched, he was too focused on getting that one mislynch. But I imagine Faerie is more intelligent than Shaka, so I can see him wanting to back down if no one else is standing beside him. Yeah he can fight for me to get lynched all day, but if he's scum, he knows that at the end of the day I'll come up town, and then he'll look awfully bad for attacking me so hard. So backing down I would say is, at best, a null-tell because while it could be a townie move, it just as easily could be a scum move. The fact that he gets so frustrated and revotes for me (to try to get the wagon rolling based on emotion now - since he still doesn't have a case on me) is again another suspicious action to add to the list. Maybe he's frustrated that I'm going after his buddy?

Because that leads us to Nano. The scummiest man on earth? Possibly. He puts me on L-2 in post #113 (his second post of the game) by going back and finding 2 random quotes to take out of context and use it to vote for me, all the while ignoring everything else that has happened in the game (questions raised about ice, TSPN, mafia, etc.). This is not like TDC, this is a blatant bandwagon vote with little evidence and a complete disregard for any other actions that have happened in the game. He didn't come here with that post to find scum, he came here to push a bandwagon.

Even Lowell has pointed out how blatantly scummy Nano's vote was:

For some reason nano's post 113 gives me solid town vibes. I couldn't tell you why, other than I'm a sucker for WIFOM and doubt he'd be so brazen as to jump in with a fifth vote if he was scum.

Except for some reason Lowell thinks being blatantly scummy is a "solid town vibe" (so yeah, FOS Lowell, but I won't be too concerned about him until it's proven that Nano is scum). Instead, I also find it blatantly scummy, so that's why I want to LYNCH Nano...

---

But as for TSQ, I find your attempt to keep the suspicion on me, discredit me, and again force a useless claim out of me to be suspicious (obviously).

Tack on mafiaSSK's track record, your request for us to completely ignore that track record, and your defense of Faerie (you seem very eager to tell us that he is town) and, well, I think everyone should keep an eye on you.

But I still want to lynch Nano.

[ZeekLTK]

I'll ask you this, face up: What the fuck would the motivation of all those people be, if they really were scum? What the HELL good could come of scum all piling onto you in the early game and getting you lynched? It's not like you're a good town player who is a threat. it's not like theres reason for them to act together agressively like that in the early game, there's no threat...You're saying that the scum just decided that it was time to lynch YOU SPECIFICALLY and then went at it.[/qoute]

You apparently can't read because you are trying to accuse me of saying that every single person that voted me is scum, while the whole point of part #3 was breaking down everyone and saying that I think Johoohno, Cake, and TDC are probably town, ice is still undecided, Faerie is possibly scum, and Nano is definitely scum...

based on that, I already said what the motivation was (and it's pretty clear if you take a step back and look at what happened): numerous town players have expresses suspicion/voted for me, so the mafia's motivation is to take advantage of this and try to advance the bandwagon and get a townie lynched.

I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

I love how you quoted basically everything from my post EXCEPT my point against Nano (which explains the motivation). Here, since you missed it I will bring it back, and highlight the main point:

Because that leads us to Nano. The scummiest man on earth? Possibly. He puts me on L-2 in post #113 (his second post of the game) by going back and finding 2 random quotes to take out of context and use it to vote for me, all the while ignoring everything else that has happened in the game (questions raised about ice, TSPN, mafia, etc.). This is not like TDC, this is a blatant bandwagon vote with little evidence and a complete disregard for any other actions that have happened in the game.

He didn't come here with that post to find scum, he came here to push a bandwagon.

Just in case you still missed it, I will post it outside of the quote boxes again:

He didn't come here with that post to find scum, he came here to push a bandwagon.

That is his motivation...


And no, Day 1 is not about claiming and lynching, it's about laying the foundation of interactions between players to make judgments from later. Eventually it has to end in a lynch, and it would be preferable if that lynch was a mafia (like Nano), but honestly no one should really claim on Day 1 unless it's a cop with a previous night investigation (which didn't happen because this game started in day) or a miller (to avoid being investigated by a cop).

Since (unfortunately) I'm not a miller in this game, I honestly see no benefit that can come from any type of claim from myself, or anyone else at this point (unless they are a miller). So I wonder why you are pushing for it so hard...

[ZeekLTK]

Seriously, iceman... tell me: what do you expect to gain from a claim?

TSQ has said this:

Even if Zeek is town, in your eyes, it is still better that he claim, because a) It means he can avoid lynch if he is pro town

I mean, seriously. Has anyone ever claimed to be "not pro town". So your whole plan is to get me on L-2, L-1, whatever and have me claim... OBVIOUSLY I am going to claim to be pro-town, so then what? Oh how nice, now we have a townie within reach of a lynch, and any old asshole can come in with some slim reasoning and mislynch me... how nice and convenient for the mafia...

This whole calling for a claim thing - this is just a ploy to keep the bandwagon going, because honestly what does anyone expect once we get to that point?

Iceman, and anyone else considering it, don't fall for this crap.

[ZeekLTK]

EBWOP:

I mean, seriously. Has anyone ever claimed to be "not pro town". So your whole plan is to get me on L-2, L-1, whatever and have me claim... OBVIOUSLY I am going to claim to be pro-town, so then what? Oh how nice, now we have a townie within reach of a lynch, and any old asshole can come in with some [weak] reasoning and mislynch me... how nice and convenient for the mafia... *

*and even better if that person is a townie, because then the mafia can attack them on Day 2 for hammering me.

Potentially two mislynches in a row - then get to Day 3 and all we have is 4 dead townies (assuming 1 kill per night) and no leads on who is mafia (other than my case on Nano). What a great setup for the town. That's the best plan I've ever heard of. [/sarcasm]

[ZeekLTK]

Zeek, it boggles my mind how you can have been on this site for almost a year and still just not get it.

Seriously, did you not pay attention during 533? This is exactly what you guys were trying to tell me - that I didn't know what I was doing and harming the town and blah blah blah and then look at what happened:

-I was right on Skruffs being anti-town
-I was right on Michel being pro-town
-I was right on Shaka being anti-town
-I was right on soupfly being pro-town (yes, initially I fought with him at the beginning of Day 2, but by the middle of the day I had realized I was wrong and stopped going after him)

If you guys would have just listened to me...

In fact, I've won every game that I've played on this site that I've been a major factor in (assuming they get it right here at the end of 533) so I think I know what I'm doing.

Just because when I'm town I like to get in there and mix it up with numerous people to try to find scum... I don't see why that is so terrible.

The reason the threads get so cluttered is because some of the people I am arguing with are not town, so they are not going to accept reasonable arguments. This is why 533 dragged on, because I was arguing with Skruffs the whole time... and Skruffs was not a townie - so obviously he wasn't going to admit that most of the things I said were right, he was going to argue them forever and hope that eventually I'd back off or the town would get sick of me. That doesn't make me wrong though.

--

And I say all this because that's all you guys are attacking - my playstyle. Nothing I have done in this game is scummy at all. What have I done?

-Made a comment about "are we going to lynch Cake?" on like page 2

-Used some rhetoric to answer iceman when he attacked me for it ("Cake could be scum, so my vote wouldn't be scummy if he was now would it?")

-"OMGUSed some people" (which I've already explained my reasoning, I feel like the bandwagon was pushed to too many votes for such weak reasoning that there are most likely scum on it, so I am trying to figure out who they are...)

-???

Yeah those are great reasons to vote for me. Clearly I am scum based on that.

What exactly have I done that could have benefited the mafia if I were scum? I called attention to myself and I am trying to get people to vote for a player that has no votes... yeah that's really a great strategy for a mafia isn't it? Especially compared to the alternative; where I could sit back and be unnoticed and vote for a player with a lot of votes to quietly push him towards being lynched. Obviously the mafia would never do that, right?

[ZeekLTK]

This should be interesting...

*Also, told you. :p