Mini 584: Sudo_Nym Presents- Over!

[Johoohno]

I'm no big fan of random voting, meaning I'll chip in a thoroughly chosen one instead:

Vote: ZeekLTK

for being last to confirm. Scum wanting to get some extra time talking out of thread before the dawn comes.

[Johoohno]

The story so far:

* Random voting is da bomb according to this town (audible sigh).
* ZeekLTK is putting a second vote on theSweatpantsNinja and claims payback (post 11; Is this misdirected towards my vote on him or do they have a common history?)
* Marmalade is creating a food fight issue and wants to be seen as incriminated by CaptainCake (post 12)
* Nanosauromo is OMGUS-voting MafiaSSK but serves another reason (post 7 & 15)
* FaerieLord is not voting me (check rule #2)
* CaptainCake is fos:ing me for making a valid point (post 16; Are you asking the town to stop drawing conclusions?)

We've had a first good paced page and day I'ds say. Stay on target ladies and gentlemen!

(Only SweatpantsNinja and Natirasha haven't called in yet, and according to the Mod the latter has presented reasons.)

[Johoohno]

Are you a sloppy reader of player posts CaptainCake?

[Johoohno]

Good answer CaptainCake, even though I don't agree to your reasoning, I now understand what you mean. Just to make sure you also understand me: I don't see my vote as random, I see ZeekLTK being last to confirm as a possible scum-tell. I know it's not the strongest case but we were only 9 posts (or a bit shy of 6 hours) into the game, how strong a scum-tells can you expect to find in that time? Still it is something and now it's out in the open for those who might have missed it. I am also really against random voting, it doesn't serve any purpose at all. Oobviously (looking at this game as an example) you get a better discussion starter by other things than random votes.

However, it's also a bit unfortunate that this item of discussion has clouded everything else in the game. It's easy for scum to hide by agreeing or staying silent.

[Johoohno]

@ Greasy Spot: Do you intend to go scum hunting sometime soon or keep flinging out random votes to left and right?

@ IcemanE: How would you like to "Move on", as you expressed in post 45 and then followed up with just an unvote?

[Johoohno]

Don't vote him. He could just be newbie town. My playstyle was exactly like that in my last game.

He might be. Or he might be newbie scum. I'd like to hear him talk about it a little, if that's alright with you.

I agree with TheSweatpantsNinja, let everyone answer their questions on their own and after that you can present your theories. If you don't do it like this you might step in saving a scum.

[Johoohno]

Trying to catch up:

Johoohno: You were the first to vote for ZeekLTK and did so for him confirming the latest. You've already said you don't think that's "the strongest case". How does it compare to the Cake-ZeekLTK conversation in your eyes?

The case on ZeekLTK as I see it:
• Last to confirm (weak scum tell as said before).
• Eager to vote for CaptainCake - #55 – (has been brushed away as a joke, but it really didn’t sit well with the crowd here).
• Illogical posts (#76) which is commented in #85 by CaptainCake. This is something ZeekLTK avoids responding to, instead he moves on to something else, namely the votes on himself (#87 & #88).
• Doesn’t really explain his vote on CaptainCake which he also kept all the way up to #105.

However, I think you deserve the benefit of the doubt (especially since I liked your good post 105 which brought up something I missed, and that I’m not ready to lynch just yet), hence

Unvote

and

FoS: ZeekLTK

. Also, I'd really want a comment on this post ZeekLTK!

I also feel that it is the same few people keeping the discussion running here, I want to see more of those keeping it low.

[Johoohno]

@ MafiaSSK: You're still voting Nanosauromo, any reason for that?

[Johoohno]

I agree with ThesweatpantsNinja. My thought with post 129 was to force him (=MafiaSSK) to post and hopefully add some valuable content.

Since none came (not even after FaerieLords post 130) I'll

Vote: MafiaSSK

I'll also say that my

FoS: ZeekLTK

remains and is even a bit stronger now, since he has tried to keep his head down some time now (seemingly to sneak away from the limelight previously aimed at him since new topics has popped up).

[Johoohno]

@ Lowell (response for post 159): I thought something like this might come up for my vote on MafiaSSK. I could also had done the other way around (kept my vote on ZeekLTK and FoS:ed MafiaSSK), but that wasn't as a good an alternative since a FoS seemed to small to wake up MafiaSSK and to keep my vote on ZeekLTK seemed dangerous since he was pretty close to a lynch and I wanted more people to weigh in before any lynch.

I am also pleased that Natirasha (reluctant poster) is now replaced by Lowell (eager poster). I am in general pretty close to the policy "Lynch all lurkers", or at least want to shake them to life. I know I'm not the most frequent poster here, but there is a lot going on IRL for the moment.

@ ZeekLTK (response for post 161). Yes I know that you'd only been away for a few days, but you were a lot more active before, and that is why I called out the shift in your post frequency.

I will make a re-read and re-evaluate things while I wait for MafiaSSK to return (or get replaced).

[Johoohno]

Okay, I’ve re-read the thread now. There is a lot to act on later in the game, which is excellent. Here are some thoughts and reflections so far:

@ CaptainCake:

I hope you’re okay, and that you feel up to join the game again. I want your input on what has happened since your last post. Otherwise I would like you to ask the mod for a replacement.

@ FaerieLord:

I agree with your case on Zeek (especially with the over defensive part), but I don’t agree with your repeated call for his role claim. A day one claim is not good at all, in my opinion. Smells role fishing to me.

@ Greasy Spot:

I disliked your play up to at least post 54, it didn’t contribute at all. Then there were a few scattered posts that actually made sense, and now you haven’t said anything of value for quite some time. More content please!

@ IcemanE:

I am a bit uncertain if you are a newbie or if you try to act like one. You’ve made some good and insightful posts (223 is one example), and you’ve made some newbie-looking posts too (in the start of the game plus 123). I also have a slight feeling of a changed play style after Zeek’s mentioning of Ice’s voting/fosing habits (105)

@ MafiaSSK:

Protects IcemanE (62), which makes me wonder if you are scum buddies. Your questions on scum buddying (218) kind of strengthens my view of MafiaSSK as a newbie scum. I want you to post more content, do an in-thread write up of your suspicions for instance. If you feel uncertain of the game I also recommend you to read at least one other finished game through (there are examples in my signature, or you could take the one ZeekLTK, TSPN and Lowell were in, or you could pick one random mini).

@ Marmalade:

Keeps kind of a low profile (though more active than me), and I find myself agreeing with most of what you say. Comes back to the policy reasoning often (not sure what to make of that). Seem to be a cautious player, not wanting to stick out.

@ Nanosauromo:

Okay, is it possible to lurk more than you do? Get in the game or get replaced. I also find post (15) laughable where you random vote MafiaSSK for posting too little in another game. Care to post more yourself? It is a bit fishy that you just follow others reasons in your vote on ZeekLTK. Bring your own view of the situation.

@ Lowell:

I like summaries (158) there is a lot to talk about in them. In that one I disagree with your take on 41, 88, 119 & 147. I also dislike your comment on Nanosaurmo being town in post (159), that’s a great way to make Nano post even less if he turns out to be scum.

@ TDC:

Tries to appear town a bit much in the beginning (89), tries to spread paranoia with your speculation on two scum groups (127). Is also kind of defensive in the retort to ZeekLTK (207).

@ ThesweatpantsNinja:

Isn’t really pursuing any scum, just voting MafiaSSK for lurking. Though I like your analytical side where you brush of Zeek as pro-town (181). What is it that makes you see him as pro-town?

@ ZeekLTK:

Don’t you see yourself as defensive? Almost all your posts are focused on responses to suspicions against yourself. Two players have already said it and I’ll do it too: Even if you’re town, you’re the only one that knows that (except for the scums), therefore you need to hunt scum in other areas but in the attacks against you, since a lot of them are, in my opinion, valid ones. Aim for other comments than those suspicious of you. Your summary (205) is an example of how everything is focused on you or attacks on you again. I really don’t like how you interpret posts (TDC #89 vote for you isn’t out of the blue, it comes along with the questions, I also like FaerieLord post #99, and below #117 you say that TDC’s questions never were answered, whereas I actually answered those for me in post 119, just to mention a few of them).

I’ve also noticed that you do vote hop some. Trying to find a person more likely to be lynched than yourself? This framing action is used here and there by you (in 107 & 198 for instance).

Summary:

My vote remains on Mafia for reasons mentioned above, and my FoS on ZeekLTK remains too. I still want CaptainCake, Greasy Spot, MafiaSSK and Nanosauromo to post some content (both on the ZeekLTK situation and general observations of the game, the posts and the players). When that has come (if ever?), and it hasn’t made me sway, I’ll support a Zeek lynch with a vote.

Mod: prod CaptainCake and Nanosauromo please

[Johoohno]

Voting people for lurking is pursuing scum, unless you're in favor of having lurkers survive until endgame without us having any clue of their alignment.

Nope, it’s pursuing lurkers. And lurkers might be scums or townies. And since there are more townies than scums, there will probably be more townies than scums among the lurkers, which would lead to a scum win using your strategy.

@ ThesweatpantsNinja: Isn’t really pursuing any scum, just voting MafiaSSK for lurking.

Strange. Why are you voting him then?

@ MafiaSSK:

Protects IcemanE (62), which makes me wonder if you are scum buddies. Your questions on scum buddying (218) kind of strengthens my view of MafiaSSK as a newbie scum. I want you to post more content, do an in-thread write up of your suspicions for instance. If you feel uncertain of the game I also recommend you to read at least one other finished game through (there are examples in my signature, or you could take the one ZeekLTK, TSPN and Lowell were in, or you could pick one random mini).

@ FaerieLord: I agree with your case on Zeek (especially with the over defensive part), but I don’t agree with your repeated call for his role claim. A day one claim is not good at all, in my opinion. Smells role fishing to me.

Yeah, let's lynch him before he claims! Read, I was pushing for the claim because I thought he was at -2. And I think -2 is the right time to claim, mostly if people express suspicion on your wagon.

Perhaps I’m just inexperienced, but I’ve never witnessed a town-favourable-day-one-claim. I believe that the scum would get more useful information from a claim, during D1, than the town.

Your post was a whole lot of nothing

Is your aggression towards my post useful for the town?

[Johoohno]

(Quick response:)

@ ThesweatpantsNinja:

I've never said it's anti-town (I dislike lurkers too), but I don't see it as scum hunting.

[Johoohno]

@ Greasy Spot:

@ Greasy Spot: Do you intend to go scum hunting sometime soon or keep flinging out random votes to left and right?

Yes!

Care to give an unambiguous answer and start scum hunting?

---

@ TDC:

There are more to claims than what you say in post 237, but I won't say more (to avoid giving scum stupid ideas).

---

@ IcemanE:

You missed rule #3:

3. Post an Unvote in bold before changing your vote. E.g. Unvote Vote: Someone Else

---

I also think we can count Nanosauromo as permanently away. I'll give him a few more days before requesting a replacement.

[Johoohno]

I've had some hellish days with tons to do and take care of. But nothing of great importance seems to have taken place here.

Although, I checked the replacement thread and saw that Sudo_Nym has decided to replace both MafiaSSK and Nanosauromo. So now we're waiting for replacements to join the game. Though there is no point in just sitting and waiting since we haven't got a good case going right now.

Post people, post!

Even though there isn't any good common case running right now, I still see MafiaSSK as a valid vote since his scum buddying and questions about that as scum-tells (My post 224), especially since I've seen him active elsewhere since then. However, I do like his replacement to come in and defend his position/see the game from a fresh perspective before any lynch.

[Johoohno]

ZeekLTK, who did you think you were voting since you felt the need to unvote before voting IcemanE?

Also:

FoS: IcemenE

. I don't like the role fishing stated before. I still sense that you sway between a newbie making newbie mistakes and just shrewdly playing newbie.

[Johoohno]

Mod: bump for replacements in the replacement thread

[Johoohno]

Mod: Prod Greasy Spot please

I noticed that he finished his Haggle game in the mish mash forum yesterday. Now he should be able to return to this game (we really don't want more people being replaced).

Also, my FoS on Zeek shows to be valid still due to this:

Plus the mod is struggling for a replacement, let's help him out and get rid of Nano anyways.

I'll let my vote on MafiaSSK remain so that there is some pressure to deliver content on the replacement once there is one.

[Johoohno]

Still waiting for the replacements ... AND GREASY SPOTS promised catch up!

[Johoohno]

Okay, this game is really lagging. We haven't had a proper vote count for ages, we need two replacements (MafiaSSK and Nano) and two more players has disappeared (Marmalade and Greasy Spot) while the rest are just growing frustrated and building cases out of that anger.

I don't want to lynch anyone until we have found the replacements and those to be prodded are back in business and presenting their ideas (is that Utopia or can we actually get there?). However, I might have to rethink that if nothing happens the coming days.

Mod:

1. Found any replacements yet?
2. Please prod Marmalade and Greasy Spot yet again

[Johoohno]

Seems as if we are about to get two replacements soon from what I saw in the replacement thread (Thestatusquo and Sir Tornado). Welcome to the game (when the replacement is decided), read through the game and let's get started once more.

@ ZeekLTK

: Since you're worried the replacements are just going to skip back reading, this might be a good opportunity to put together some questions for them.

@ The replacement for MafiaSSK

: I am interested in some fresh perspective analysis on the game and the players. (And preferably some comment on your predecessor's posts and opinions).

@ The replacement for Nanosauromo

: Are you going to remove or retain your vote for ZeekLTK? Why/Why not? I am also interested in some fresh perspective analysis on the game and the players.

[Johoohno]

unvote: MafiaSSK/TSQ

The vote was for pressure to deliver. Now let's see what comes from all this.

[Johoohno]

Okay we really need to get all players to get back in line. We've got plenty of material to judge some from, but almost nothing on others (Greasy Spot, Nanosauromo/Sir Tornado & Marmalade).

A few notes though (I have only skimmed page 17 and 18, will read them closer someday soon):

Thestatusquo

: I don't like his supporting early D1 bandwagons to get claims. I believe the start of D1 to be about get a feel for the players. Starting to getting claims D1 is only beneficial for scums. Also, I don't agree with him on FaerieLord, I'm pretty suspicious of him.

ThesweatpantsNinja

: I'm quite surprised at his defensive attitude to TSQ's "attacks" on him.

I am also very concerned with how a lot of player starts to dance by TSQ's tune and hop on the zeek wagon just to excruciate him into claiming (seems to do so more to get the claim than by their own presented suspicions of him - talking mostly about Lowell, TSN and IcemanE here).

I am still somewhat suspicious of Zeek, but I am in no rush to lynch anyone yet, I want to have more to judge the silent players by before the first day ends. And as of now I have other candidates topping my scum lists

Mod: Prod Greasy Spot, Sir Tornado & Marmalade

(I know that Marmalade said he had limited access, but since we seem to be getting close to a lynch it might be good to prod anyway). Perhaps Greasy Spot should be replaced - he's promised to catch up but nothing has happened for ages.

[Johoohno]

Also, I don't agree with him on FaerieLord

Would surely be swell to know why

• The one who started the “claim train” (post post 131 among others). I see it as role fishing. Which I see is strengthened by this statement: “it's a "He's a detriment to the town, it's a win win situation." vote” (post 371).
• And some time later he tries to please those who doesn’t like the claimingberating another player for role fishing (post 292). (Also see FaerieLords reply to IcemanE in post 308, which is a similar one)

I am still somewhat suspicious of Zeek, but I am in no rush to lynch anyone yet, I want to have more to judge the silent players by before the first day ends. And as of now I have other candidates topping my scum lists

Lovely fence isn't it?

Do you see any downsides in getting more players opinions before ending day1?

[Johoohno]

Vote: Greasy Spot

No matter alignment, his actions aren't really helpful (can't say I've seen a game with his being helpful though).

[Johoohno]

unvote

@ Greasy Spot

: Since you're here now, care to weigh in on yesterdays events with player analysis and the likes. (Greasy Spots profile shows his being active in several games, is this the game that is too much for his real life responsibilities?)

I'm also awaiting a counter claim.

[Johoohno]

I think he's trying to bait the real doc, which is more or less why I hate doc claims when someone gets to L-1 after being all scummy. It's like a free doc kill for scum for getting caught. Get a townie on your side (it's almost certain TSN is town either way) and force the real doc out of hiding.

One very stupid move =/= all scummy.

I don't understand what you are saying with this FaerieLord. Please clarify.

[Johoohno]

Mod:

Prod CaptainCake, Marmalade, Sir Tornado (and replace if necessary).

I want to know if the claim will be countered or not.

[Johoohno]

I am not trying to throw the light off my bad behavior in this game but

there is no one to protect me from a NK

. Scum know I am an easy target tonight.

Do you know something of the game setup?

(My boldings in quote above)

[Johoohno]

I am not a doc.

Vote:CaptainCake

Time to wake up the lurkers, and this one seems most likely to come to life.

[Johoohno]

Lowell, the point is that we have proof a doc exists (last night) so if we get a counterclaim, we have caught scum.

You're stretching the truth here, but we do have a strong indication of it.

[Johoohno]

Also, I am not interested in voting GS (unless someone lurking comes back and counter-claim - then one of those two is probably lying), I am also pleased that he has come back to the game and would like to get a more extensive back read on the game by him.

[Johoohno]

Still working on my analysis. FWIW, GS and Iceman have my FoS, but I looked back at the last few pages, and see we're all claiming not-doc, so I indeed am not.

Is your FoS on GS to be understood as doubting his claim?

[Johoohno]

Well, two people close to cleared (that being GS and TSN). I'm waiting for Celebloki's catch up now.

When my other ongoing game goes to night (which will be soon since it is deadline for Friday) I'll try and find time to reread and add my thoughts.

[Johoohno]

@ celebloki:

I see your case on Lowell and will do a reread to see if I'll join you with a vote or if I find someone else more wordy of it. However, I really dislike your listing of most protown players - partly because I don't agree with your idea of who's protown, partly because I don't like you trying to hand scum a list of suitable night kills.

[Johoohno]

EBWOP: Wordy or worthy - whichever you like

[Johoohno]

I am here - doing my earlier mentioned reread. Will be done in two or three days and I'll give you my opinions then.

unvote

[Johoohno]

I'm almost done with my reread, but FaerieLords started bandwagon on me (post 661 needs to be answered before someone gets trigger happy following a wagon based on a fabricated truth). I've put in my comments in bold in the quote.

Post 4: Tells Greasy to start scum hunting (ironic, no?)

by asking questions to people for instance, as I did IcemanE here but you just happened to leave out of your summary

Post 6: Re justifies his weak vote (even though everyone is ignoring it) and puts a FoS on Zeek.

In what way do I justify my vote when I switched it down to a FoS instead?

Post 11: Says that it is easy for scum to win using "LaL" policy, since it's more probable that town lurk than scum lurk, since there are more town. He also changes his reason for voting MafiaSSK. He goes from pressuring lurkers out to the reason he gave in his recap.

So my inconsistency, in your eyes, is that I say I'm close to "lynch all lurkers" and then say that LaL is a way for scum victory? Don't you see the difference between being pro LaL and being close to LaL? Have you ever in this game seen me being sloppy with my vote and leaving it where it might hurt a potential innocent player? However I find it very interesting that you've achieved a witch hunt built on lies (you and all the trailers are duly noted)

Post 12: Says voting lurkers is not scum hunting, though not anti-town. See posts 8 and 9

You are aware of the difference between voting and lynching, right?

Post 23: Says I'm trying to start a "claim train", where I only asked for one claim. Compares two completely different scenarios.

By claim train I mean that you started the whole claiming business and made others follow, hence the train

Now, seeing all these posts, I want to ask you all, where has Johoohno posted content, apart from post no. 10 (and even that is to a certain extent, since material from it was reiterating what others said.) To me, this is an example of lurking in plain sight. Another thing I didn't like about Johoohno is his constant justification of his votes. Also, see his flip-flop on his vote on MafiaSSK. Started out as a vote so that he would post content, then it became a "buddying up" case, then once again it became to post content. Another flip flop is his stance on lurkers. Notice how he was against in post 11, because he said scum could have something out of it? He voted lurkers, THRICE! MafiaSSK, Greasy and CaptianCake. I also want you all to notice how he hasn't been on a single wagon of relevance. Zeek only got an FoS from his. No vote on Iceman either, and no vote on lowell either. Though he does say that if celebloki's analysis takes foot, he will jump on it. The amount of fence sitting he has done in this game is astonishing. So yeah, all that considered, I think this warrants a:

Unvote, Vote Johoohno

Yes I am well aware of my low profile and constant nagging about prods and replacements, but that is because this game has been a lurker/replacement carousel from the beginning. I enjoy mafia best when the same players stick through the entire game. Replacements slow down games a lot.

And about me being on no wagons has to do with the fact that I've not been interested in pursuing any wagon so far to the end (except for GS up till his claim). I don't necessarily see band wagons as the greatest way of getting information (as TSQ, and obviously you do).

[Johoohno]

My stance on lurking

(mainly aimed at FaerieLord, but IcemanE and TSN would also benefit from reading this)
Post 184:

I am in general pretty close to the policy "Lynch all lurkers", or at least want to shake them to life.

Post 227:

Voting people for lurking is pursuing scum, unless you're in favor of having lurkers survive until endgame without us having any clue of their alignment.

Nope, it’s pursuing lurkers. And lurkers might be scums or townies. And since there are more townies than scums, there will probably be more townies than scums among the lurkers, which would lead to a scum win using your strategy.

What is the inconsistency? I don’t like lurkers – I want as many people as possibly participating in the game (you cannot have missed this, I call out for participating a lot, especially in this game where 5 people have been replaced partly due to inactivity). To shake people to life you can vote them and see if that gets them to be more active (as I tried to do with mafiaSSK, and CaptainCake). But just single-mindedly lynching lurkers in a long line will not lead to a town victory because many town lurkers have just lost their interest or their time for the game and will not react very much. Scum on the other hand might lurk due to keeping their head low, and as soon as they notice that lurkers get lynched they will participate more. My stance is therefore that you need to wake up the lurkers to get a game where everyone participate and through everyone’s interactions scums are found.

General analysis on the way

- will come today or tomorrow

[Johoohno]

My shift on my MafiaSSK vote

Post 156 is where I vote mafiaSSK for not adding valuable content (= lurking).
Post 184 is where I say that will make a reread and re-evaluate things.
(post 190 is where MafiaSSK says he has a lurking playstyle.)
post 224 is my analysis after my reread, where I’ve actually found some things that I missed or connections I didn’t see earlier (isn’t this what everyone does when rereading?). Here I’ve noticed a connection to Iceman, another player I’m suspicious of.

The way I see it FaerieLord is that your case on me is based on your either not reading thoroughly enough or trying to fabricate a lie and present that to everyone else in order to make the town lynch me. (Don’t be surprised your being a star in my top scum list soon to come).

[Johoohno]

Celebloki

(replacing CaptainCake)
• Continues to stall the game (post 628 & 651)
• Seems to be an opportunistic player (joins the lowell wagon as #3, and skips to my case as #2)
• I have a hard time reading C/CC, could be scum, but could also be inexperienced town relying too much on the opinion of others.

FaerieLord

• Post 661Calls me out for inconsistency in lurker policy (this is what I call fabricating the truth). I can’t honestly understand what you are aiming at (and I think I’ve explained my stance clearly enough?!). The same goes for the case on me about my vote on MafiaSSK. All of this is presented in a post without any quick links to make it harder for people to actually check the facts and easier just to agree with it as truths.
• Also note that he is the first one to vote me this day 2, trying to get a wagon rolling.
• Then there is my suspicion of him from day 1 focused on his wanting zeek to claim.

Greasy Spot

• Not much to say, nobody counter claimed. And even though I didn’t like his play style most of D1 it has actually improved a lot D2.

IcemanE

• Still on the line between newbie scum and newbie town.

Thestatusquo

(replacing MafiaSSK)
• Gets the Zeek wagon rolling once more (post 386)
• Post 405 quote (aimed at TSN about Zeek): ” The only conclusion that I can draw is that you're protecting an inexperienced scumbuddy who you know will not be very good at fake claiming”. Let’s not forget this whole ordeal between TSQ and TSN. I wouldn’t be surprised if TSQ wanted to undermine TSN and then decided to kill him off during the night. It would be good for scum to remove players who seem to be all town.
• Makes a list and tries to make it official of who are town and who are scum in post 490. Due to doc claim TSN and GS isn’t on the scum list, and he also saves himself and FaerieLord (and partly IcemanE) from it.
• He also has a very shift activity. He can be away for very long periods and then bombard the thread with very lengthy posts at other times.

Surye

(replacing Marmalade)
• I really felt marmalade was townish D1, but there is too little to judge from (and surye has said next to nothing).

Sir Tornado

(replacing Nanosauromo)
• Again a player duo with too little content to judge them by.

Lowell

(replacing Natirasha)
* I understand his stance on not claiming doc post 556 since scum would love to trade on of their own for the doc and therefore reduce the risk of a repeat of N1 for them. Though I agree with a lot IcemanE says about lowell (vote hopping and lurking).

TDC

• Hard to read, makes very short posts and tries to stay just above the lurking surface (post 552 is an example of that).

ThesweatpantsNinja

• Not much to say due to Greasy Spots uncountered claim that he protected TSN N1.

---

Scum connections

I also see a connection between FaerieLord and TSQ/MafiaSSK. Post 228 is interesting. First FL doesn’t seem to agree with my scum buddying thoughts on Ice and MafiaSSK – see posts just before also (because he doesn’t want to see his scum buddy – MafiaSSK - being paired with a scummy player, that could lead to a lynch on either of them). Secondly I also read this post as a hint to MafiaSSK to stop lurking.

In post 386 TSQ says: “Faerielord is the most townie by far. Take this declaration with a grain of salt, though …”

In post 412 he seems to be very relieved that MafiaSSK has been replaced with TSQ (a scum partner he doesn’t work well with switched to someone he likes better?)

In
post 467

I found this:

I don't know if I buy it, I'm not sure I would have picked me out as the mafia kill.

I surely wouldn't have. I'd have nuked TSQ because I know he's a good player. But all this is wifom. If I was mafia, would I leave shea alive so I could make this argument? And the wifom ensues. So I'd rather leave the "I wouldn't nuke me" comments to the side.

This doesn’t ring very, sounds as if he is implying that TSQ isn’t scum.

In post 578 this is found:

Just because he is scum in this game doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about when referring to the game as a whole. I'm sure he's been town before, and he appears to be an experienced player.

He is. He is experienced enough to not help town when he is scum

Here FaerieLord kind of steps in a defends TSQ a bit (which, by the way, seems to be pretty unnecessary any way you look at it).

I also see some connections between FaerieLord and Iceman, but they are not as interesting to me since both FaerieLord and TSQ are both higher up on my scum suspicion list.

---

Summary

Since I see TSQ and FaerieLord as my top scum candidates I am prepared to lynch either of them today. I have a hard time picking out a single #3 on my list but if one of TSQ or FaerieLord is lynched that would really clear my stance on IcemanE.

I’ll actually

Vote: FaerieLord

(just waiting now to hear the cries of OMGUS)

[Johoohno]

And then, which you conveniently left out, you unvote MafiaSSK saying that you voted him just for content, while in post 224, you say that it is not due to content, but due to the connection between him and Iceman - another suspicious person.

I assume this (post 389) to be the post you’re referring to?

Once again you fail to mention the circumstances around it. TSQ has replaced MafiaSSK and has posted some lengthy posts already (the three posts before my 389) where he doesn’t say anything about the connection I found, especially note how he avoids saying anything of relevance about MafiaSSK in post 387 when answering my specific question on it. Since I realized I wouldn't get any answers about my suspicions on MafiaSSK’s scum buddying and no one else has shown any beliefs in it, I let matters drop to see how the replacement (TSQ) would play the role that I suspect to be scum.


Also, nice of you to step in to the OMGUS trap: I voice suspicions on you (post 429, 431), you vote me thereafter (Post 661), and then have the balls to call my vote after the reread (promise reread 650 & votes FL in post 699) omgus. I think it’s actually the other way around. You got nervous and wanted to hurriedly press forth a vote on me before my reread just to be able to call ME up on OMGUS.

One good thing you recently did though, asking for the prods, I was about to do it myself.

[Johoohno]

Since I realized I wouldn't get any answers about my suspicions on MafiaSSK’s scum buddying and no one else has shown any beliefs in it, I let matters drop to see how the replacement (TSQ) would play the role that I suspect to be scum.

Ah, so let me see if I got this straight. You unvoted TSQ because you didn't want to start a wagon on your own? Much more convenient just hopping then, eh?

Tell me, why would a townie in his correct mind let a scum roam free? If you have such fundamental suspicions, why not pursue the scum? Leaving scum alive for so long is never a good idea you know!

Because it's in the town's interest to lynch scum. We can't just sit around on different cases, we need to gather around one in the end of each day to reach the needed votes for a lynch.

I voice suspicions on you

Voicing is never enough. Either grow some balls and make a case on someone or don't depend on voicing. In the beginning of the game, should I post saying "I'm suspicious of everyone here" just so I can have an OMGUS cover?

You're compairing apples and pears here.

Besides, where is there a relationship between why I voted you and the suspicions you held with me? You voted me because you didn't like my vote on you (saying that I was fabricating truths). I voted you because I reread your every post and found you scummy. There's a difference there!

So I am not allowed to find you scummy when actually your case on me is crumbling?

, and then have the balls to call my vote after the reread (promise reread 650 & votes FL in post 699) omgus.

Of course I do. It's not as if I made the case on you because you said you'd find me scummy in your reread. All you did was say you would post a reread. Should I have waited for you to do one myself?

I have had you on top of my scum list for some time now, and I had the general feeling that was expressed in my posts, but perhaps that's not the feeling the rest of you got from me?

You got nervous and wanted to hurriedly press forth a vote on me before my reread just to be able to call ME up on OMGUS.

Again, I had no idea whom you'd be voting for

Just look at your tenth post! You voice suspicion over

Me (Role-Fishing), Greasy (saying isn't posting anything of value), Iceman (trying to appear like a newbie), MafiaSSK (lurking, relation with Iceman), Marmalade (trying to intentionally keep a low profile), Nano (accuses of barning and lurking), TDC (Trying to earn townie points), Zeek (Big long paragraph)

That post alone is enough to not make me know who you would vote for. You most probably actually did the reading because I called you out and voted you.

The posts I refered to in my last post were all a lot later than my "tenth post" as you call it. You have read them, right?

[Johoohno]

@ FaerieLord:

* On the apples and pears: I've stated, in most of my later posts, that I find you scummy. That is not the same thing as calling out everyone as scummy in the beginning of the game.
* On your "johoohno case": I don't see much of it actually, the lurker inconsitency was a fault/construction you made, the MafiaSSK vote has been answered on. Is there something else you want me to show by refering to older posts and comments?
* On my "FaerieLord case": The zest of the case can be found here (post 699) and that is not "I find you scummy". It is about your D1 claiming wish, it is about your connections/protections of TSQ (the other player I find most scummy), and it is about your case on me, which I see as a scum way to frame a townie. (Furthermore, you have my vote - your last post seemed to imply that there is no vote on you).

[Johoohno]

Yeah, the town seems ready to lynch now, I'm only waiting for the non voters to chip in their votes (I can consider to swing my vote to TSQ, but that's about it, unless new information is added to the thread).

IcemanE, put your vote where your suspicion is!

[Johoohno]

Sorry about my play. Though you guys lynched me while I had announced being away a few days, I was going to claim tracker if I came back.

Oh well.

Good game town! And you hung in there a long time TDC, well done.