Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!

[soupfly]

hi all, just replaced in!

[soupfly]

ah, for the record i'm replacing vellon.

[soupfly]

i replaced vellon so only person missing is Jester. come on, let's start!

[soupfly]

hmm...let's try

vote: archaist

[soupfly]

awe shucks...you've seen through my evil plan to speed lynching archaist by quickly taking him to L-5! [/sarcasm]

[soupfly]

Opportunistic scum, anyone?

you're supposed to get these kinds of things out of your system in the newbie games.

[soupfly]

you guys can't blame jenter for the lameness of this game given that he's 1) replaced both inactives...and let me say that 2 inactives in a 12 person game is about normal 2) nobody seems to be posting.

game has started people.

[soupfly]

nah, MeMe is a good guy...or gal if you will.

[soupfly]

What a curiously baseless assertion.

that is unless we are scum buddies and i am trying to protect her! Really, there's no plausible alternative explanation...

[soupfly]

unvote: archaist

...that ship has sailed.

now let me turn my attention to gorckat who seems to have his eye on me. just so you know the "Meme is not scum" post is the kind of stuff I do to get the game started. my early game sense tells me that she's probably town although i am neither certain of her innocence, nor her guilt.

just so i don't have to write this late, here's a few tidbits about my playstyle:

1) i become more aggressive in scumhunting as the game goes on. until i get a feel of the game i don't really go crazy on interrogations unless something really jumps out at me. as the game moves along i'm usually among the most active...so if you want to call me out for not contributing to scum hunting on day 1 or early day 2 then you're barking up the wrong tree.

2) i don't state my reasons for suspicions unless i'm sure that i want to lynch someone in which case i'll do a detailed analysis. the reason for this should be clear to most of you.

3) i state my opinion always about who i think is town or scum so don't go reading into things like he's buddying up or he's distancing with me. i believe its in the town's best interest to know my unbiased point of view and i'll never shy away from doing so for fear of being lynched.

these are the main things that people have consistently found scummy about me in instances where i have been town. this doesn't mean that i'm definitely town just because i act this way...rather it means you need to find other things in my gameplay to catch me if i am indeed scum. in any case, feel free to metagame my play to confirm this.

and oh, btw:

vote: neko2086

the reason should be obvious.

[soupfly]

Soupfly: I have to agree with Sammich. Why even bring all that up? For me, you've just undercut everything you might do in the future and, in effect, told me not to trust you.

i don't see how you could arrive at that conclusion. what i said is that whether i am townie or scum i will do the things i listed because that is my playstyle. i'm not going to change the play style to conform with someone else's idea of how a townie should play.

and by the way, in mafia you should never trust anybody cause people tend to lie

[soupfly]

That said, soupfly's vote on me is a bit bizarre. Sorry, soupfly, but it's not that obvious to me, and people voting without explanation is getting annoying. It's excusable during random voting, but pretty damn unhelpful later on. So, maybe I'm dense, but would you care to point out the obvious for me, soupfly, and give your reasoning?

normally i wouldn't do this cause it defeats the purpose of what i just did, but i'm essentially just putting pressure on you to see how you react. jumping on a wagon gets the person to react in some way. they might panick and lurk. they might overreact and get all defensive. they might ignore it. they might even ask for clarification as in your case. ideally i'd like to have left you hanging a little bit longer while i teased a little more info out of you, but i neither think you're scum nor do i find anything particularly suspicious in your response so...

unvote: neko2086

[soupfly]

You decided pretty quickly there, soupfly. Don't you think that it's a bit unusual to "pressure" someone for just one post? I really don't think that neko2086's post was all that telling one way or another, so I'd like to know how you came to the conclusion that he isn't scum so quickly.

didn't i just say that i wouldn't usually do that and that this is an exception? again, the reason i did is because i felt neko's post was sincere and it was only a random wagon to begin with. also i saw that he registered to play a month ago and i wanted to be helpful and answer what appeared to be a sincere question. of course i could have posted "no i won't" but i thought that it might be obnoxious. if you disagree then feel free to lay your vote where your suspicions are.

[soupfly]

its funny, but sad, that town always suspects the first person who does anything remotely non-random.

Unvote;Vote:Soupfly

First your speech about your playstyle(which deters us from actual scum hunting) and then a pressure vote for 1 response.

This statement about deterring us from actually scum hunting is laughable given your posting history in this game:

Hello everyone, I'm replacing the jester. I'll just need a about a week to catch up in this thread(sarcasm).

Vote:Neko2086

Yeah, page 4 and not one votecount from Jenter is pretty poor.

Neko, I'm voting for MeMe because she's voting for me. So MeMe, why did you vote for me?

That ,my friends, is the definition of an OMGUS vote.

FOS: RidetheBomb

Unvote;Vote:Soupfly

First your speech about your playstyle(which deters us from actual scum hunting) and then a pressure vote for 1 response.

5 posts, no substance. in the future you may want to actually contribute something of substance or even do some scum hunting before calling out out others for

"detering the process of actual scum hunting"

!

[soupfly]

actually it seems to me that SirWario has:

1) lurked in plain sight: posting but with nothing to say
2) has adopted the suspicions of two other players (gorckat and archaist)
3) contradicts himself by saying I'm

deterring the town from scum hunting

when he's essentially done nothing to contribute.

so let me make clear that this is neither a random nor OMGUS vote:

vote: SirWario

on another note, the activity in this game is seriously depressing.

[soupfly]

if it will help to get the game going i would welcome you all to join the soupfly wagon.

btw, in case some of you are new to this: scum don't usually tend to put themselves out on the line to get the game started. its safer to lurk in a lifeless game than to try and stir things up. it would be WIFOM for me to point to this as a sign of my towniness so i won't go there. however, this point should be considered in looking at the play (or lack thereof) of others.

ffs post people!

[soupfly]

agreed. this sucks.

[soupfly]

For my first insightful point, I would like to state, declare rather, that souply is scum - it says so right above his avatar. I'd also like to say that this is not my best reasoning; however, it must suffice for the time being.

why are you giving us away? don't you realize that it also says scum above your avatar? its amazing nobody's figured it out yet...

[soupfly]

vote: neko2086

Quick re-read and I think this is a good start.

after his latest post i see something.

unvote: sirwario

vote: neko2086

and don't ask for an explanation this time. that's getting old.

[soupfly]

Could you give an explanation for you vote, soupfly? Don't think you can dissuade questioning just by saying it's getting old... after what, only 7 pages? Making votes on "secret information" is something only the Mafia can do in reality, as only they have any extra info about who is Town and who is Scum when starting the game. In his last post (#153), neko2086 made some perfectly reasonable statements, what about that post makes him worthy of a vote? You voted neko2086 for "pressure," which you lifted after only 1 post, and now you vote him again. Rapidly voting and unvoting without wanting to give any explanation sounds very scummy to me.

Vote: soupfly

in time i will explain my reason for voting.

in all fairness i do think that i deserve some criticism for my earlier action where i provided an explanation of the vote on neko and the subsequent unvote. its just that i've always felt a strong need to be helpful. neko's earlier question towards me didn't read "why do you think i'm scum?" but rather something like "i'm really confused about what's happening!" so i felt sort of compelled to be nice and explain it since it was early in the game. i made a mistake and i knew that my revote on neko would attract attention to me, but i can't worry about that now. its best to be honest about these things and keep playing.

[soupfly]

sorry, was gone for a couple of days. will do a read through and post later.

[soupfly]

well, reread and i'm sticking with my vote on neko. reasons: he's going out of his way to amiable and nice with the other players. even when faced with votes he very nicely asks for explanations and even played the confused newb card with me once. did a quick meta on him and he plays a bit more aggressive in his other games. i admit its a matter of interpreting the nuances of his posting style, but to me it smells fishy.

also, his suspicions are a bit bland and he's even skittish in the way he applies pressure. take this for instance:

I'd be hesitant about voting for you, but nobody is, currently, so there's no danger yet. I think you've deserved a

vote:sikario

until you can convince me otherwise

he's going out of his way to convince us that he's not completely convinced about voting and that he's open to changing his mind in the future. just seems like a player who doesn't want to rub anybody the wrong way, while still appearing active.

if you really want to apply pressure on a player then you need to dig into them to make em feel that there's a bit of pressure there. you got to make em feel that the gun you're pointing to their head actually has bullets in it. you don't point an empty gun at somebody, tell them there's no bullet and then expect them to feel any pressure.

anyway, that's my best suspicion at the moment. on the other hand its been a pretty bland 8 pages and i think we're all part of the problem here as we've all kinda neglected this game. but you know all it takes is a bit of action things can pick up very quickly!

[soupfly]

i think that neko is a pretty good case at the moment. i'm gonna stick with it unless somebody see something else.

on the other hand i don't want a lynch until there's enough content from everybody (and i mean everybody) in the game. i'd rather lynch an inactive than an active poster, so post up people cause soon we're coming after you!

[soupfly]

Even our

mod

hasn't been here for more than a week. I don't think this game is worth playing, quite frankly. The five of us who have posted in the last few days should just go sign up for the next mini game. Deal?

unfortunately this game has been dying a slow death for a while now. i had hoped we could revive it but clearly there's just too many inactives and i just can't see it taking off again.

having said that, i won't quit the game because i want to give jenter (our mod) the chance to save it but at the same time i will take MeMe's advice and sign up for the next mini with the idea that this game is probably dead.

i'll check this game from time to time to see if anything picks up but ain't gonna post unless i see that there's some life to it.

Mod Vote Count:
Selande (1): McStab
RideTheBomb (1): MeMe
soupfly (2): SirWario, Archaist
Sikario8 (1): Neko2086
neko2086 (2): gorckat, soupfly
SirWario (1): Sikario8

not voting: Archaist, Selande, Deathguise

[soupfly]

need more replacements!

[soupfly]

@oman, you read my case on neko? do some metagaming on neko and see if he's always so "nice" in his other games.

[soupfly]

my home cpu died monday night so i can only access nets at office which is hard since i'm in 7 games. i'll do my best to catch up.

[soupfly]

since we're starting up again i'd like to:

confirm vote: neko

still seems like the best play from what we've had so far.

[soupfly]

i've got three votes and the next closest person has 1 vote and the deadline is three days away. given the activity of this game, gorckat's vote is practically a death sentence.

i'll wait another day and if nothing changes then i'll claim.

[soupfly]

btw, another mass prod would probably be in order given the upcoming deadline.

here's updated vote count:

Vote Count

soupfly (3) - Archaist, SirWario, gorckat
Guardian (1) - Pra a Funkee Home Sapien
neko2086 (1) - soupfly
Sikario8 (1) - neko2086
SirWario (1) - Guardian
Gorckat (1) – Tarhalindur,
Arakorn (1) - MeMe

not voting (3) - Arakorn, Gorgon, Rikimaru

[soupfly]

something is seriously wrong with this game. deadline is tomorrow and i'm one vote away from being lynched because of votes places by Sir Wario who hasn't posted here since Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:49 pm and Archaist who hasn't posted since Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:50 am.

i could claim God the Creator and it wouldn't make any difference because they wouldn't be around to unvote.

[soupfly]

unvote: neko

vote: Rikimaru

reason should be obvious.

[soupfly]

vote: tarhalindur

my gut agrees with mikeburnfire.

[soupfly]

To soupfly: I see you're following someone else's lead with little explanation as usual. Is this going to be a pattern for the rest of the game?

I don't believe i've done this but if there are examples you'd like me to explain then please quote them.

my vote on Tar was based on the unclear logic for locking on to MeMe. now i understand it though i think its a little too early for a claim from someone with a cop/mason power-role.

in any case i believe the claim and i think we should go with it.

unvote: Tarhalindur

vote: MeMe

[soupfly]

So, what I advocate is that the "partner" exposes himself now so that, if I do wind up today's lynchee, at least there are two scum outed.

i don't agree because tar's claim is pretty sound when you consider that 1) he wasn't in danger of being lynched 2) there's no cop counterclaim and 3) the timing doesn't fit a scum play.

i wouldn't out the mason in this case, though i also don't think somebody calling for the other mason to come out is necessarily scum. i think its all a matter of how much you believe tar's claim.

You assert that Tar's role is so powerful that the mafia would have to be amped up for balance purposes. I disagree, as the mechanics of the game make things unpredictable-- it's why I didn't immediately vote you. I think that judgment is this game is off because we're all drunk. Tar could be an insane cop or paranoid cop while under the influence.

However, it bothers me that you immediately assume he's a lying scum and are trying to predict the mafia's setup based on it. I'll probably end up voting for you.

you realize this isn't alcoholics anonymous mafia!? i think you got the two games convinced cause we're not all supposed to be drunk.

[soupfly]

final though on the second mason, if tar has a dual role (cop+mason) then it stands to reason that the other mason may also have a dual role making them all the more valuable. so again, i don't want the second mason to claim.

[soupfly]

Uhm, can you vote for yourself? In that case we have 5 votes for MeMe, otherwise:
Tally:

MeMe: (4) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, mikeburnfire)

i believe its a lynch with 6 votes:

Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, neko, mikeburnfire, meme

besides, meme just admitted she's scum.

[soupfly]

As an aside, the reason I claimed as quickly as I did was because mikeburnfire and soupfly (two of my top suspects at this point) both responded to my vote by attacking me (CLASSIC SCUM REACTION). That's pretty damn informative, IMO.

so your basic reason for suspecting me boils down to OMGUS? ever stop and think that the way you "locked on" to meme was pretty strange from a townie's point of view? nobody had been suspecting her and then all of a sudden you're pushing for the lynching without any real explanation. sorry but "After last night, I'm pretty damn sure that the Arakorn wagon was a scumwagon." is not sufficient explanation for locking onto a player.

so before you go about claiming that my actions are scummy you need to assess your own play which was less than stellar. when you're the cop and you know somebody is scum then at least try and be a bit more subtle and put together some plausible reason why that person's play indicates they are scum because otherwise a townie will just see it as an attempt to lynch based on craplogic.

[soupfly]

who did you investigate last night tar?

[soupfly]

i'm afraid that i'd accidentally roleblocked tar last night...was afraid of that. damn! tar coming in on a bus was my doing. don't worry though, i'm a townie and i'll do a full claim when i get to the office in a bit.

[soupfly]

claim: Inventor

basically i invent stuff (which I'm not sure what they do) and then i get to use them at night. i started off with three inventions of which i used one on N1 after which i got a replacement invention so that i had two of the original plus a new one to choose from on N2.

So for N1 I had:

Today you have made;

A

forged money printer

, choose whose house to put it outside.

OR

A

bus

, choose who to drive out of town for the night.

OR

A

large object which looks vaguely like a trumpet with electronic bellows

. Choose whose house to wind it outside.

i figured that the first one was a method to investigate other players, that the second one was a way to protect players and that the third was a way to role block.

in any case

on N1 i used the forged money printer on neko

because of the suspicion i had on him from day one. nothing happened (neko went home and stayed in bed) so i'm assuming that neko is town.

for N2 i had a

Rocket of Death

which i could fire at someone's house. knowing that tar was a cop, i tried to protect him so i used

the bus on Tar on N2

. i started getting worried that the trumpet with bellows may be some sort of alarm and could be the protection instead but i stuck with bus and i'm afraid that that may have been the roleblock. it could be that the bus did indeed protect him and that scum roleblocked him but at the moment i have no way to be sure of it. only if there is another doc out there can we know for sure, but i don't think they need to claim for that that.

the reason i was so sure of tar's claim the first day was because it was a non-conventional role such as my own. he's a mason/doc and i'm a semi cop/doc/roleblocker/vig.

so why the aggressive stance towards me Tar?

[soupfly]

who did you investigate last night tar?

Irrelevant. Claim or die.

btw tar, i wrote the above before i saw your post about being roleblocked. note that we posted at the same exact time.

[soupfly]

not sure if neko can confirm because of the nature of the play that night. the result of that night's action:

An amazing amount of not much happens. neko stays in bed. You go home at dawn after watching the printer for 12 hours. That was pointless...

the good news is that there's a doctor out there that managed to protect tar. or maybe my bus had the dual role of protecting and role blocking since they could hardly kill tar if he was out of town all night. i analyzed to death the pro's and con's of going bus vs. trumpet last night. in the end i told myself that scum couldn't harm tar if he was out of town.

tar, do you know if you got a doc's protection last night?

[soupfly]

well, i'll be quiet until jenter renders a decision on my play today.

[soupfly]

i think the trumpet like thing is a protection.

i think the bus was the role block.

its clear that tar was protected and roleblocked on N2. i know i used the bus on tar and then the mod told tar that i was responsible for the roleblock. this means that the bus was also protection (in addition to the roleblock) or someone else protected tar.

i think its likely that there's a doc out there who protected you tar.

[soupfly]

known townies:

tar
soupfly
neko

possible scum

Pra a Funkee Homo Sapien
Gorgon
Javert
gorckat
mikeburnfire
Arakorn

of these possible scum one of them is tar's mason buddy (though i don't care to specify which).

the important thing at the moment is for tar to be kept alive and for us to not target his mason partner. for this to happen i believe that we should let tar pick the lynch for today so that we don't accidentally go after his mason partner which would needlessly cause him to claim. also tar has a 1/5 chance of lynching scum whereas the rest of us have a 1/6 because we don't know who his mason buddy is.

over night tar should choose his own target. i will use my trumpet thing on him as i believe that is an alarm/security system which will protect him. if there is another doc then they'll have to decide whether to use it on me or tar considering that the trumpet may not work like i'm anticipating and may not protect tar.

in any case i think we should agree to let tar decide today's lynch.

[soupfly]

i recommend you consider lynching Pra a Funkee Homo Sapien who has hardly posted and is just lurking.

[soupfly]

Hold on, how do we know Neko is town? Otherwise I'm fine with Soupfly's idea.

because i sort of investigated him on night one. i had a forged money printer (one of my inventions) which i put outside his house and i sat around all night but he never left his house.

given that my other inventions all have a purpose:
1) rocket of death: vig night kill
2) bus: roleblock
3) trumpet: possibly night protection
i assume that the forged money printer was a means of investigating a player. if he would have tried to use it he would have been scum but since he ignored it i think that confirms him as a townie.

its not definite but very likely.

[soupfly]

unvote: if necessary

vote: gorgon

<-- all follow tar's lead. now might be the time to claim gorgon.

i'm almost positive that my trumpet is an alarm system that can protect players so i'll be using it to protect tar. if there's a doc out there they can also protect tar to be safe or protect me to block another lynch. i doubt they'll try and lynch tar again but you never know.

[soupfly]

damn, that didn't work out at all

i'm almost positive that my trumpet is an alarm system that can protect players so i'll be using it to protect tar. if there's a doc out there they can also protect tar to be safe or protect me to block another lynch. i doubt they'll try and lynch tar again but you never know.

this was a bluff by me. i was hoping that by bluffing i could get the scum to not target either tar or myself. instead i used the rocket of death on mikeburnfire because he was tar's top suspect so i was pretty sure that he wasn't the mason.

that really didn't work out very well at all.

we have 5 players left of which 1 is scum and 4 are townies. of the townies we know neko and myself are townies because i think i've shown that i am indeed the inventor and neko was most likely confirmed by the forged money printer. that leaves three: gorckat, arakorn and javert.

if there is a doc i'd be in favor of a claim, but only if they do it very fast claim...don't give the scum a chance to figure out that there isn't a doc and then fake a claim. so if there's a doc they should claim immediately. if there's three confirmed townies then we can just pick off the remaining two players today and tomorrow with one sure to be scum.

[soupfly]

@javert: self metagaming takes us into WIFOM territory...cut it out, its not helping your case.

Officialzors vote count;

Not Voting; Everyone

[soupfly]

k, i'm here.

we've had no doc claim so that means i'm probably dead tonight.

my remaining inventions are the trumpet thing and i now have a giant rubber ducky in my possession, but i probably won't get a chance to use anything.

as far as who is scum, i think it is arakorn. his play has been very bland so far. sort of lurking in plain site.

vote: arakorn

[soupfly]

1) chances are that there's only one scum left.
2) if neko is scum he is not the play for today. we have to assume he's town based on the forged money printer invention. there's really nothing else that makes sense.
3) the decision for today is between arakorn, gorckat and javert

i say arakorn is the most scummy.

[soupfly]

Ok, it just occurred to me that if we were wrong, we could have ended up with a quicklynch and little info. Soupfly, I want to know who your second choice would be and why. You may as well give us everything you've got now, since you will not likely be here tomorrow. If we're wrong, we'll likely have gorckat and javert voting each other, leaving me with the decision, so I might as well ask for your opinion now.

I do not plan to move my vote elsewhere (unless anyone has an incredibly good reason not to vote arakorn), but it is not going back up until I feel we've had ample discussion for today.

with five players left we have two more lynches to go. i think that one of those three are scum and we got two shots at it which gives us a 2/3 chance of winning.

i'm really not sure about gorckat and javert. would probably need to do a lengthy reread which i unfortunately don't have time to do now. so unfortunately the decision will come down to you neko.

of course i could be wrong about the forged money printer and neko could be the scum but so far each of my inventions has done something and the only one that made sense as an investigation tool was the forged money printer. the bus was clearly a roleblock (with protection possibly included) and the rocket was a NK so if the forged money printer isn't an investigation tool then i can't imagine what else it could be.

[soupfly]

@soup: A tracking tool has been suggested for the printer.

what do you mean by this? what does a tracking tool do?

[soupfly]

That it'd tell you if they left their house (and performed a night action), like the role Tracker.

that also makes sense. i'd never heard of it but i assume it exists. it would further confirm him because if that's the case then it would point to him being a vanilla townie because scum do have a night action. they have to go out and kill someone. either way neko comes out townie.

[soupfly]

If neko were scum, MeMe could have made the first kill, leaving him inside all night.

I also think he's town, but Javert has taken the position that neko isn't 100% clear.

i doubt there's differentiation between scum as to who does the night kill. besides, he slept throughout the whole entire night. even if we assume he didn't make the kill (which i doubt) he would have left the house to discuss the NK so he'd still have been active at night.

[soupfly]

not sure what else do do. i think arakorn is the best lynch out of javert, gorckat and arakorn. i'll worry about javert vs. gorckat tomorrow...or at least neko will.

[soupfly]

@neko: since you'll be making the final decision on this (probably), in case arakorn turns out to be a townie then between gorckat and javert i think that gorckat is probably scummier one...though i'm not all that confident in this assessment.

[soupfly]

more by process of elimination since i think that javert seems pretty pro-town.

[soupfly]

the neko analysis seems a bit unnecessary javert. strange you should do such a positive review when neko is the one who may be deciding the outcome of this game.

[soupfly]

well javert, in a game such as this it really is tough to compete against you when you are scum. its clear that you know how to be a good townie and i assume you play the same whether you are town or scum. unfortunately i've found nothing incriminating against you so far, although i have the sense that you would be clean even if you were scum. in any case i don't believe in lynching players who are too townie, which you are. between javert and gorckat i would believe that gorckat is the scum.

but in any case arakorn is the play today.

[soupfly]

i think this day has lasted long enough and what order we lynch arakorn/gorckat makes no difference at this point.

unvote: arakorn

vote: gorckat

lynch arakorn tomorrow if gorckat is not scum. neko is town: i don't think you can lynch javert cause his play has been very good.

[soupfly]

bah, go town!

[soupfly]

nicely done javert.