The StarCraft II thread
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xRECKONERx wrote:Can someone look at this replay and tell me how badly I fucked up?
http://www.mediafire.com/?d6ple17adjntwyr
- No scouting (first recon of a potential enemy base at the 12 minute mark with your main army)
- Nowhere near enough SCV's (18 at the 10 minute mark, you should be saturated on 1 base and getting near to it on a second by 10 minutes)
- Supply blocked a few times (27 supply, 59 supply)
- Never expanded (If you're one basing, your main attacking thrust shouldn't be at 15 minutes)
Scout with an early SCV at the very least. Make SCV's constantly. Look to expand at around the 7 minute mark and take a third at 15 minutes (just general guidelines, you can go slower or faster). Don't get supply blocked.
If you only take one piece of advice out of all of it, make more SCV's. Just constantly make them. Just that alone and you'll improve a lot.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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DeathRowKitty wrote:
Two things to add to this:
1) It's often a good idea to scan before you attack. It's a bit of a tip off that you're about to attack, but for the extra few seconds, you're often better off knowing what you're going against. At the very least, scanning after the first set of baneling bombs went off could have helped.
2) If you're going to go with few marines, you should probably get either vikings or turrets. Unless you've scouted and seen your opponent has no air units (easier to do against zerg, since the spire has to be on creep), you should really have some sort of anti-air. Not having anti-air leads to this (not exactly my best game...I'd prefer it it wasn't analyzed >.> (I'm the zerg player in that game)).
Preemptive apology if this sounds overly confrontational, it's not meant to be.
I truly feel that Reckoner would profit much more by simply working on his macro mechanics, and completely ignoring (for now) things like attacking micro (like pre-battle scans) and army compositions (like deciding on anti-air).
- He lost that game because he didn't have enough stuff.
- He didn't have enough stuff because he didn't have enough buildings to make stuff.
- He didn't have enough buildings to make stuff because he didn't have enough bases to generate an economy.
- He didn't have enough bases to generate an economy because he didn't have enough money to expand.
- He didn't have enough money to expand because he wasn't making probes.
- Imagine that same replay where all he did different was make probes. All the time. Nothing queued, but just constant probe production.
- Now suddenly, with the same sized initial army, you've got enough extra minerals to expand appropriately.
- Now that you can expand, you can make even more SCV's and your income increases dramatically.
- Now you've got a good income, you can make several more production buildings/upgrade buildings while still building your army.
- Now that you've got more production buildings, your army grows much faster.
That attack at... 14 minutes or so.. should have been with an army much closer to 200 supply than the 80 or so he was at. With more efficient macro, even slightly so, he could have roflstomped that zerg. No need for pre-attack scans or concerns about Vikings, he could have 1a'd his entire army to the back of his opponent's enemy base and not even look at the battle and just win.
And it all comes down to SCV's.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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How does worst of the worst work exactly? Is this actually a thing?
Whoever loses with the most artistic flair? I'd probably spend my whole time lining up my probes into little stick figure men and trying to "walk" them to the enemy base...
Or maybe something like this...Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Well I wasn't going to say anything about joining until someone could give some detail on what this is about, are we playing to lose, playing to win, playing to impress a judging panel on how "artistically" we can lose, what is it exactly?Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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For each league you are above your opponent, opponent may select one keyboard key that you may no longer press for the match duration. Custom hotkeys not permitted.
I also like forcing higher-ranked opponent to use mouse only or something.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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JDodge wrote:Papa Zito wrote:Gamma, that just means you'll have more to slaughter us with.
Moratorium wrote:For each league you are above your opponent, opponent may select one keyboard key that you may no longer press for the match duration. Custom hotkeys not permitted.
I also like forcing higher-ranked opponent to use mouse only or something.
Ahahahahah that's brilliant. Impossible to police but brilliant.
i'm thinking that those handicaps won't change anything; the reason why good players are good is not because they have a high APM, it's because they have a better understanding of the game in general
i think the best route is to just restrict the upper players out of it, unfortunately
I wasn't seriously suggesting handicaps.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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kiwieagle wrote:Just bought starcraft 2!
Any tips?
Who should I be?
im thinking zerg due to almost everyone being terran....
is there a big learning curve?
If this is your first time with Starcraft, I'd recommend playing through the Single Player campaign.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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xRECKONERx wrote:^ This.
I'm tossing the idea around with JD of doing a 2v2 tournament after this, where top ranked players get paired with newbies.
My favorite tournament format was where they had pairings of players, one was master (or so), the other was bronze (or so). Each pairing would get on skype, Bronze player would drive, Master player would tell him what to do. Made for some interesting moments, with well-executed build orders being busted out at 19 APM.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Well, for map pool, I guess the question becomes what is it that you are trying to accomplish with the map pool? Do you want to tailor it to newer players in some aspect? Do you have any particular goal with the map pool? If not, taking a GSL list is fine.
Consider that several players may have relatively little concept of how to adapt their playstyle based on the map. So I don't think you can go very wrong with just a varied list of map styles.
Also, is it worth considering Bo3 to at least try to lessen cheese for pool play, or is that just too many games... (and at this exact moment I'm thinking to myself I'm using way too many brain cells on a bronze/silver tournament).
I'm generally good with the tournament format.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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JDodge wrote:Knight of Cydonia wrote:In other words, he gets carried. I'd say JD or someone gold-league minimum should test him out, see how he is solo.
can't reliably test solo
we could probably run an analysis on some of his 2v2 replays
i'd say the "he gets carried" excuse is bullshit in randoms
in other news, my logo is better than agar's
This logo is insinuating something about zerg....Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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JDodge wrote:Moratorium wrote:Let the man play, what's the worst that could happen, he could win? Let's just have some fun.
I don't particularly think it'll be fun for quite a few of us involved if we allow someone in who's likely to just storm through the entire tournament. The idea is pitting together people of equal skill; everything shows that he's not of equal skill to us.
Ok well now I feel like i'm unnecessarily promoting drama, so just do what you feel is best I guess.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Claus wrote:Meh, I just missed you guys, spent the whole night playing SC2
Moratorium, if you always play at this time, and want to do somewhat regular training matches, let me know! Mid-silver Terran.
Sounds good, I should be on again tonight.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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xRECKONERx wrote:http://www.mediafire.com/?z2bvd0kswlnq6ky
Anyone wanna take a look at that replay and tell me what I can do BETTER? I mean, I won, but I'd like to improve on that. Also, I'm proud of that game
Ok, here's a straightup analysis of the first 10 minutes of the game. Just to give you some idea on what you could objectively improve:
1) Idle SCV production time
- Idle at 14, 17, 19, 28, 34, 35, 44 and 45 supply
- Times of 10, 30, 6, 39, 20, 14, 3, and 61 seconds
- Total time lost producing SCV's: 183 seconds
- Amount of SCV's not produced in that time: 10.7
2) Idle Barracks time (both)
- Idle for 8, 16, 30, 18, 9, 4, 3, 5, 3, and 9 seconds
- Total time lost producing Marines: 109 seconds
- Amount of Marines not produced in that time: 4.36
3) Idle Factory time
- ALL. Factory never built a thing. All you did was swap the factory around to allow the starports access to the tech labs.
- Solution: Build it later if you're going to build it at all.
4) Idle Starport time (both)
- 8 seconds. You really wanted those Banshees.
5) Idle 2nd Gas
- 2nd Gas was mining with a single SCV for 17 seconds before you transferred two more.
6) Supply Blocks
- Blocked at 11, 35 and 59. You responded to the 35 and 59 ones by building 4 supply depots each.
- Solution: Don't get supply blocked, don't build more than 2 depots at a time by the 10 minute mark, keep up with building supply depots as you go.
7) Floating minerals
- You had 400 minerals in the bank for pretty much the entire 10 minutes. You could have grabbed an expansion at basically any point and been much further ahead than you were, and still had enough money to do what you were doing.
8) Initial Scouting
- Your scout at 13'ish supply went to a corner of the map, and stayed there for 90 seconds. Use Shift-queue to queue up waypoints for your scout so that you can scout all possible enemy starting positions, and when you see one appear on your minimap, stop the scout there.
So overall advice: Always make SCV's. Don't get supply blocked. Keep your money low by constantly making more stuff and expanding when you have the spare minerals to do so.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Wait, Factory is prerequisite for Starport, right? (i don't play terran)
if so, advice there is to actually build things with it instead of letting it idle
As for getting flustered, well, now you know what you need to work on. Repeat until not flustered.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comme ... elow_your/
It's all about macro in the low leagues, baby.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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This isn't really an argument I want to get into, so Reckoner, take whatever advice you feel helps you the most from this, I'm sure there are also other players on this forum and others who are way above my league and can help you out as well.
Good luck.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Participating in rCraftGaming (reddit) KOTH Silver league tournament tonight, come watch live casting of me getting my ass wooped starting at 7pm central.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comme ... redditors/
Stream: http://www.justin.tv/rcraftgaming
edit: but i'm 14th on the list of players probably won't get to play
edit2: did get to play, won three matches, lost the fourth when I made a snap decision to four gate a fast-expanding zerg that I scouted last on metal, if I'd won that I would have won an hour's tutoring with EdwardStarcraft.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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If anyone wants to see the cast of those games:
http://www.justin.tv/rcraftgaming/b/288154593
I jump in at the 1hour 45 minute mark. And into a large portion of Part 2 of the video.
Spoiler for Game 1:I get my face nuked at Bel'shir Beach, losing all drones at my main. And still win.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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I wish they would get rid of "rush maps".Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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post-match interview with day[9] onstage, huk basically states that as soon as he scouted the 6 pool (and he scouted it first right off the bat) he thought he had won because he knew how to stop it... apparently he regretted raising his arms in the booth before the match was over, but you could see how happy he was once he held off the initial push and the followup roach push, he knew he had it right then and there...
...but he did mention mind games several times... must be fun to play SC2 at the "mind games" level... i can't think of a single thing i do ingame that would qualify as a "mind game", i'm too set in my ways...Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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What was strange about that decision for me is that the two wins Moon actually did get in the series were in the longer games, the ones where he won due to good flankings and good surrounds. The losses were quicker games, one a 4gate and the other the infamous mistakenly-cancelled hatchery game. So the decision to cheese was very much hoping for a surprise change of pace and hoping the large map (tal'darim altar) meant scouting would be delayed (it wasn't).
How often does 6 pool work at the GM level (nevermind in a tournament final)?Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Silver KOTH again, if anyone's interested in watching, starts in 45 minutes, and I'm in the first match. (just posting this because there appeared to be some interest last week, I promise I'll stop... )
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comme ... s_tonight/
stream: http://www.twitchtv.com/rCraftGaming
ingame channel "rCraftGaming"
If you are Silver and want to participate, the signup sheet is here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewfor ... E6MQ#gid=0Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Pretty pumped that huk won both dreamhack and homestory. Looking forward to watching the next GSL.
He's my goto guy to watch because he's also an American-Canadian Protoss like me
Noticed that him and MC do the exact same 1 gate core opening now in terms of placement (they put their pylons/initial gateway/cybercore in the same exact spots every match against certain races), and they seem to be doing pretty similar builds lately, i guess when huk said him and MC sit next to each other in the oGS house 12 hours a day every day practicing and sharing info, he wasn't kidding.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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I did it by going Mass Air, and keeping the three entrances walled off.
Mass air as in, never build a single ground unit (only use the ones they give you for some of the initial fights), make liberal use of cannons, use graviton beams on hybrids to halt their high dps, and by the time you get near "winning", you should have three control groups of only Phoenix, Void Rays and Carriers, plus the given Mothership, each group "led" by a Protoss leader character, and a cannon-making probe. I forget how many stargates I had, I think it was 4 total (2 free initial ones + 2).
Do that and you will not only beat it on Hard but get all the achievements (2000 kills or something?) as well.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Aces High = Bunker up, Siege tank up, Perdition Turret up, kill everything that approaches. Use Mind control towers on Ultralisks and have them tank their particular wave of baddies, prepare for the one big overlord drop with several missile towers on the southeast side of your base, have a squad of banshees constantly going around hunting Nydus worms. Hopefully you did the pre-mission that removes all enemy air units instead of the one that clears all the nydus worms, because it's easier to complete Aces High that way.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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End of season lock doesn't mean anything other than a temporary halt of promotions, your MMR will still increase/decrease during that period, so if you are getting enough wins during the lockout you'll be promoted immediately following your one placement match at the start of Season 3.
At the end of the day, your "rank" within your particular mini-division of 100 players is what means nothing at all (arbitrary ranking within an undeclared segment of a particular 20% of the starcraft playing population). Unless you are Grandmaster, at which point it means nothing at all for a completely different reason (apathy).
If you care about details: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=118212Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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