Micro 558 | Slavic Music Mafia II | Endgame

[VysePresident]

First.

VOTE: LQ

Heya, Mugen.

[VysePresident]

UNVOTE:

Disengaging during V/LA. Will look back in a bit.

[VysePresident]

So, I'm sorta back, but very, very tired, and will likely spend at least today recovering. Maybe Sunday too, but I'm hoping to be ready by then.

[VysePresident]

Reading now, will have done before I head to work. Thoughts to follow closer to tonight.

That said, I heavily do not want to abuse the rooms factor very much. I'm at my best when I can see everything going on in the thread, even the stupid stuff. Also, I get really tired of Town thinking they have their neighbors pegged when they're getting played.

I'll listen if a couple of people want a room - goodness knows I kinda want to get LQ in one for a bit, just on general principle - but let's not make this too much of a thing.

[VysePresident]

Falling asleep here, (w/ sickness induced eyestrain) but I'll try to give some notes so as not to have completely lied.

Not much but light gut right now. There's a few good players here, is what I'm getting, and I"m not inclined to think I can do an in-depth read right now.

Postie & Pie are Town leans at the moment. I kinda want to see a bit more from her in terms of reads & stuff though.

Pie just seems all-around competent at the moment, and I'm okay with the directions he's chosen. The competent part keeps me from Townreading him until he's had time to do more. Still, mostly a positive.

BNP is meh - I don't really like 65, and just don't find anything appealingly Town in his posts.

LQ is meh, and I kinda agree with Pie RE 43.

Yeah, Pie is Town. LQ isn't moving much one way or another quite yet.

LQ's 80 is okay, kinda in line with what I'd expect TownLQ to be thinking. I'll give him a small notch up.

89, and I'm back to freaking wondering about everything. Frick my life, LQ.

Vyse and LQ: Get a Room

. I'd like to talk with you in particular. Titus can join if she must. (No offense, Titus, but I'd prefer 2 right now.)

Read 94 - VOTE: BNL. Lil' too much 'weird is bad', and the use of 'non-Town thoughts' is kinda meh. What specifically looks

scummy

about LQ, rather than weird?

99 - TY Titus.

132 - "Let me explain to you why you are scummy." Kinda meh on this. Sorta reminds me of the justifications I've seen friends pull on my homesite for scumreading people. Still find BNL more interesting at the moment.

So, this turned into a train of thought post about a third of the way through, but hopefully you get the idea.

Spoiler: Leftover from the original attempt at posting.

VOTE: Bullet n Lynchproof

My my that some low hanging fruit you seem to be going after. Any particular reason why?

This post bugs me a bit. I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but it's too early.

Wanna talk, LQ? You're probably one of the people I'd get the most out of a two player session from, and would appreciate having more material to read you with.

[VysePresident]

Now, I'm tired, and my eyes are bothering me, so I'll catch you guys tomorrow.

[VysePresident]

Looking forward to it.

[VysePresident]

Read 94 - VOTE: BNL. Lil' too much 'weird is bad', and the use of 'non-Town thoughts' is kinda meh. What specifically looks

scummy

about LQ, rather than weird?

I guess I used the wrong word choice. By "weird" I mean stuff I didn't like. And did you read the whole thing? I pointed out that some of LQ's posts were fluff - Posts that push the game nowhere. Especially the quoted part of 80- forcing people to think of an answer that does not bring the game anywhere is scummy. Also, I did not make any sense from the first two points I quoted, and this could be scum trying to confuse townies. I guess I could be wrong about my last point though, could be either aggressive scum or frustrated town. (LQ is still my strongest scumread though)

Ehhhh, full reads please?

[VysePresident]

Why is RC so high on your list, BNL?

[VysePresident]

Any townie thing I do can be written off as that.

After playing that one New York with you, I'm personally waiting on a bit more confirmation than last time.

[VysePresident]

...Thinking about it. Not quite for the reasons you're saying. I've just played a hydra with him before, and I don't understand these conclusions he's making about himself or anything.

Doesn't help that you're not really doing anything Town though.

Only person I have a semi-concrete opinion on right now is BNL, so holding my vote for now. I'll probably be on more during the weekends, despite everything.

Heck with my eyes burning. If this doesn't get better, I may have to replace and avoid the computer outright for a bit. Hoping it's just a particularly nasty reaction to the virus I'm dealing with.

[VysePresident]

@LQ - Why the heck are you so mild-mannered anymore, this game?

[VysePresident]

This is me re-reengaging. My sister & brother passed their second degree black belt tests, and my darn sister took top score, so thank goodness that ended so well.

[VysePresident]

Titus or LQ, do me a favor and link me to that Suikoden game please.

Because for all that I find RC a pain to read on multiple levels, I do get the feeling like when Fire was insisting Soren was playing to his Town meta by 'not rolling over and playing dead', when, well, he kinda was doing that.

I do not understand the off and on engagment level here - it doesn't quite match what I expected after our last game. Part of the reason I wanted and still want that room.

[VysePresident]

I've been helping a close friend move today and yesterday, and my last exam was on the seventeenth.

relax.

Also, how does getting a room with 2 people who are pretty damn likely scumbuddies omgusing me help you sort me? Why don't you actually talk to me.

Yeah, I know the feeling. Welcome back.

I meant sorting LQ. I've played a few games with him, and he initially was off, very briefly acted Town here....then faded out. It's not scummy per se so much as extremely weird, and Titus's defense is pushing me

You, I don't know. I'm going to be kinda blunt, after the last game I played with you (That one NY game highlighting stupid/hilarious Wiki Help articles.), I'm not sure how to read you. I had you written off as an arrogant, meaningless blip on my radar, and completely forgot about you once my newbie Townread on that one person turned out to be wrong. I mean, after glancing over your games, and later seeing how wrong I was about the one read, I just kinda let my weak read on you go. At the end of the game, I learned that it was your scum strategy to avoid attention by making so much noise.

I'm not very impressed by you pushing anything as such, for that reason. Noise from you is meaningless in terms of your alignment, apparently.

At the same time, I'm half agreeing with you, so I want a chance to get LQ in a different environment where I think I'll have a better idea of how he's approaching this game. That's one of the big pieces I need for this puzzle. I also kinda want to get to where you can't be yelling during the whole thing, because I know I have a habit of letting my doubts get a hold of me when people do that.

Kinda miffed that LQ wants Titus in it so bad, TBH. I have no real read on her slot yet. Hawk Eyes was a little better entering the game, but neither is screaming Town.

So, yeah.

If this seems like a lot of unknowns, that's because it is. This is partly due to my disengagement prior to this point. That's also why I'm currently just chronicling my thoughts instead of asking questions and the like. I'm literally working this out as I write it.

Actually, on that note, your thoughts on Inflatable please?

[VysePresident]

*Titus's defense is actually pushing me to view him in a worse light*

[VysePresident]

but the

manner

in which you were pushing me.

Could you explain this a bit further?

You came across, and genuinely still do, that you are not sure enough of things for me to think you are Town. You have been actively scum hunting, asking questions and generally trying to figure out and sort peoples alignments.

Was there a typo in this post, or am I just not following?

Are you saying that you think Postie is Town or that you're not sure?

[VysePresident]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63765

Thanks.

Now to actually read the darn thing.

[VysePresident]

LQ, I'm going to need to talk fast, and probably in thread if you don't want me to switch votes.

I'm meh on this, but I'm in one of those slow funks, and not really Townreading you, TBH.

I dunno. Work with me.

[VysePresident]

LQ, I'm going to need to talk fast, and probably in thread if you don't want me to switch votes.

I'm meh on this, but I'm in one of those slow funks, and not really Townreading you, TBH.

I dunno. Work with me.

You're free to ask me questions.

Really, I'm just trying to figure out why you don't seem to care about anything?

Hypocrisy aside, you're talking, but you're taking a completely different tone, and it bothers me, especially after looking over Suikoden. I'm kinda reaching the opposite conclusion of Titus, and...eh. You just seem to be going through the motions.

I mostly just don't want to lynch you early, but the only half-decent reason I have is a semi-stale read on BNL, to steal a line from somebody.

I feel like all my reads are stale, except Postie being Town, and some recent positivity towards Espeonage, and maybe RC. I'm literally getting my butt run off for the next two days before Christmas break is a thing, so...yeah. :/

[VysePresident]

GAR: RC & Inflatable Pie

I call next dibs on the next round.

[VysePresident]

(With Inflatable)

[VysePresident]

VOTE: BnL

I absolutely refuse to hammer the one townread I have in this game. Fuck that if it means policy. All claims are the same and every bodyguard can defend against scum so I'd rather no lynch.

I know that means no one will want to help me develop more reads here, but this is absolutely a scum wagon.

~Titus

This is absolute desperation right here, considering the fact that you are already voting me. Is this grasping at straws in order to save your scumbuddy?

Please provide an explanation of why LQ is town without reference to Sukidoen Mafia.

This post....ugh.

[VysePresident]

VOTE: GAR: Vyse, RC, Pie

P_Edit: I started writing this a while back, and forgot about it. Posting now in the spirit of 'why not?'

I'll try not to live up to the expectations set by Pie. Christmas break happens for me after two more tricky days, and I think I can start managing stuff after taht.

So, at this point, RC wins the round. I am willing to hammer LQ, and will be on all night to do so. I just want the room hammered first, if possible.

Postie is probably Town. BNL is either a different take on the 'rigid Townie', or scum, and I favor the latter presently.

[VysePresident]

Oh and here's my plan of action:

Lynch LQ today.

He flips scum, lynch Titus tomorrow.

He flips town, Lynch RC, then Vyse.

If I do get lynched today:

Lynch Titus tomorrow.

She flips scum, lynch LQ

She flips town, lynch Vyse and RC.

LQ is a guy, Titus is a lady, just FYI.

And I obviously disagree, but I'm curious what the chain of logic is here?

[VysePresident]

VOTE: BnL

I absolutely refuse to hammer the one townread I have in this game. Fuck that if it means policy. All claims are the same and every bodyguard can defend against scum so I'd rather no lynch.

I know that means no one will want to help me develop more reads here, but this is absolutely a scum wagon.

~Titus

This is absolute desperation right here, considering the fact that you are already voting me. Is this grasping at straws in order to save your scumbuddy?

Please provide an explanation of why LQ is town without reference to Sukidoen Mafia.

This post....ugh.

This is post would be bad because you are basically trying to hammer the deal in a particularly stiff way, for lack of better words. (I'm darned tired, deal with it. Tired of failing to actually play this game.)

I don't like how your read shifted on LQ either. You're going from 'he's weird', to this gloating push to seal the deal. It's a bad enough post on it's own, but it's highlighting a certain lack of depth I'm seeing from you. I'm not buying it, but there it is.

[VysePresident]

Deal = Lynch. You want to lynch LQ still, as is clear from your post. This is not terrible, but the manner in which you do so indicates a particularly awful version of tunnelvision that

does

look scummy.

I'm summing your points up briefly, yes, but your reasoning on LQ is still rather superficial. Your opinion feels like it moves quickly, and for shallow reasons more related to timing than to actual engagement and growth. I have a couple points of hesitation, but with the deadline approahing, I'd prefer you to be lynched over LQ.

Dunno, I'm willing to listen to you a bit, but that's where my head is at present.

Speaking of which, please do elaborate on the chain of logic like I asked above.

[VysePresident]

I should also point out that whatever lynch we're aiming for, we need to have it hammered in six hours.

[VysePresident]

Requesting elaboration

again

please, BNL.

[VysePresident]

Oh and here's my plan of action:

Lynch LQ today.

He flips scum, lynch Titus tomorrow.

He flips town, Lynch RC, then Vyse.

If I do get lynched today:

Lynch Titus tomorrow.

She flips scum, lynch LQ

She flips town, lynch Vyse and RC.

LQ is a guy, Titus is a lady, just FYI.

And I obviously disagree, but I'm curious what the chain of logic is here?

For reference.

[VysePresident]

Can we maybe not no-lynch, please?

[VysePresident]

I really need to head to bed.

Is there really nobody willing to hammer BNL?

[VysePresident]

Frick my life.

[VysePresident]

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all, and noting that I'm out for the day.

Catch y'all later, hopefully.

[VysePresident]

My (Shorthand, to be expanded on, etc.) notes from the room would be as follows:

Strong Town (Would not lynch): Inflatable Pie, Postie, BNL, and obviously myself.

Pie's timing on that vote was good, and I like their overall reasoning. I'm not going to say it's impossible that he was bussing, but realistically we are so going to do this. BNL is Town based of Titus's push, Postie had some good content closer to the end of the phase.

Leans Town (Unlikely to lynch): RC, Espeon (Dependent on further contributions from Espeon. Scum do vote stupid occasionally.) (RC hard busses at the drop of a hat, but is at least sorta on target this game. His refusal to BG anyone irks the crap out of me, but so be it.)

Willing to lynch right off the bat: LQ, Bella.

Obviously, one is wrong, so Bella, I'd appreciate you chatting this up a bit, TY.

[VysePresident]

Merry Christmas.

Scum not RBing LQ = ???

The thought did occur to me.

[VysePresident]

I bodyguarded Postie, I just didn't talk to anyone else about it.

Like, I feel like I should be considered clear here.

1) After last game, there's no way I would have not RBed LQ.
2) I would never have done what I did with a scumpartner of mine. If I was gonna bus, I'd bus. If I was gonna defend her, I'd defend her.
3) If you look at the interactions between us and think either of us could have faked them, you're nuts.

Just saying, 1) applies as much to me.

[VysePresident]

VOTE: GA:R RC BnL[/v]

VOTE: GAR: Vyse/Posite

Pretty please?

After my last few games, I'm going to refrain from voting unless Bella takes forever.

[VysePresident]

VOTE: GAR: RC/BNL

Fixing it.

[VysePresident]

VOTE: GAR: Vyse/Postie

Fixing that too. I can't spell anymore. Good night.

@Mod - Please consider me V/LA for the 25th. I don't think activity will be an issue after that, but just in case, I'd like to make this official please.

V/LA noted. You can't vote for more than one room at a time so your room vote is currently on vyse/postie and no longer on bnl/rc. --P

[VysePresident]

Postie, can I get a room with you please?

I'd like to hear from you on a couple things.

[VysePresident]

Bella where!?!?

And I'm actually thinking BnL isn't nearly as paranoid as I thought it was, and in fact it's probably the third most likely pairing after Bella and Vyse.

I'm trying to bite my tongue on self-meta so hard but if you seriously think I'm scum playing like

this

.

At least you're probably okay after all.

[VysePresident]

I voted for your room already.

[VysePresident]

@VP:

In #407, you listed your reads. Was this the general agreement in the room? If so, do you agree with all the reads, or are there some you disagree with?

No, it's primarily mine. We agreed on a lot, but not everything. (For one thing, only Pie got my alignment right. ) I'll let the others express their reads themselves, unless they go AFK for a very long time.

As far as relevance goes, RC & I were ready to dive into lynching LQ, Pie wanted Bella and Espeonage examined. I'm defaulting to the latter, now that the former is screwed.

Bella's absence is making this difficult. (Hope everything's alright for you?)

I wouldn't mind doing a room with Espeon later, if he'll be around.

In the meantime, I'm looking back over the game.

[VysePresident]

You can't vote for more than one room at a time so your room vote is currently on vyse/postie and no longer on bnl/rc. --P

Whoops!

VOTE: GAR: BNL/RC

get a room

It takes 4 votes to get a 2 person room, and 6 votes to get a 3 person room.

BulletNLynchProof and RadiantCowbells

(R-0): RadiantCowbells, Postie, BulletNLynchproof, VysePresident

<-- ROOM

Postie and VysePresident

(R-4): VysePresident

Not Voting

(3): Bellaphant,

BulletNLynchproof

, Espeonage, InflatablePie

Spoiler: Room Eligibility

2 more rooms toDay

: Bellaphant, Espeonage, InflatablePie, Postie, VysePresident

1 more room toDay

: nobody

1 more room toDay but not until post restriction ends

: BulletNLynchproof, RadiantCowbells

No more rooms toDay

: nobody

[VysePresident]

(By the latter, I mean Pie's reads, as opposed to my scumread on LQ)

[VysePresident]

I could type a mastin-sized wall of how in situations like these, flashwagoning someone to L-1 can give us a wide range of information, but as usual, lazy.

Short version because Google Chrome just randomly crashed on me, and I'm done.

I'm going to present a counterpoint in the form of my last scum game - I almost won a very difficult, nightless game in large part by nudging people into bad quickwagons. (My favorite would be lynching BBMolla a couple hours after he left for work. )

Quicklynches kinda hurt associatives, and I rather wish we'd played over a couple people to get a feel for this stuff.

Mastin is all well and good, but my only experience playing with them has been to see them hand scum the game, and also theorize that, as scum, I died by typing

VysePresident KILLS: VysePresident.

(This was a bad case of setup spec tunnel-vision, involving the kill flavor I died by.)

Finally, I know it annoys people, but I've literally never been mislynched once as Town in almost four years of playing the game. I don't want my first time to be because I couldn't get to the computer in time, or worse, because I let myself get lazy. (I mean, not that I've been the bastion of effort this game, and may deserve it, but that's beside the point. ) I'll be lucky to survive next phase. It'd be a miracle for me to survive both remaining lynches if we don't get scum.

I want this lynch to be

right

. I understand the risk of apathy, and I won't wait too long, but there are a few specific things I want to do first.

[VysePresident]

I'm almost ready to say the heck with it and vote Bella. I'm at the point where my reads are just going in circles.

I just would appreciate us hammering the room with Postie first. If the game doesn't end this phase, it's kinda important to me.

P-Edit: Now you know my pain, Pie. :/

[VysePresident]

Bella should be getting prodded on Monday so we won't have to wait too long for content or a replacement.

And if you want that room, Vyse, it might help to put down a vote for it.

...Someday, I will remember how the room mechanic works. XD

VOTE: GAR: Vyse/Postie

[VysePresident]

Room: Vyse, Postie

@BNL

Would like to ask everyone:

Did anyone protect LQ?

... what was this question for? Were you trying to rule out (or gauge the likelihood of) whether LQ himself was the target or...?

Well yeah. If anyone claimed to have protected LQ I'd rule you and Espe out as he last scum due to knowing that scum is not trying to mislead me with my earlier thought process.

BNL, where are you at, in terms of reads?

[VysePresident]

Heh.

Yeah, fine. If there's no objections in the next couple of hours, I'll hammer.

There's supposedly stuff I want to say and all, but I'm working in circles, and I don't want to put the effort in if the game really is just about over.

[VysePresident]

Remind me to show you my scum games after this one's over, RC.

Heck, I usually have more to be proud of in my Town games too, but I've yet to fail to engage in a scum game once. Not sure how many of my thoughts I'm allowed to share, given that I basically talked myself back into this elsewhere, but short version.

VOTE: Bella

[VysePresident]

Meh, tired. I never liked coherent English anyway.

[VysePresident]

Well, if we're wrong, you'll get a non-apathetic me for sure.

[VysePresident]

Dunno what to say. If you can't see the gears turning in my head easily, I'm at a loss. With any luck, I won't need to defend this game, and we can all just call it quits.

(I was about to repeat my thoughts again, but snipped because I'm babbling. If you really want them, I'll repost while we're waiting on Plot.)

[VysePresident]

Just curious, where is that from?

[VysePresident]

Also, I'll have you know I'm the MANLIEST MAN that ever MANNED at being a MAN.

[VysePresident]

One thing I learned, is that people rarely seem to actually look at one's gender, when listed. I had a fellow call me a girl for nearly a whole game, despite my repeated corrections.

Your avatar is female, so ergo, clearly you are too, right?

[VysePresident]

I dunno, I just never really got into anime. Not enough time for anything new, anymore. Even my obsessive hobbies are having a rough time of it. I don't think I'll try playing two mafia games at the same time again, for a while. It's still doable, but it's hurting my ability to focus on either.

[VysePresident]

Oh yes, League of Legends. That's the anime where that one dude with the lightsaber is on the bridge shouting how something won't pass, and then dumbledore dies, right?

[VysePresident]

And here's a hearty second to not seeing you again until the game's over.

[VysePresident]

Didn't mean it as an insult, RC. For all that I'll give you flak if it comes to a head to head, I think you're okay.

[VysePresident]

Pretty sure thats a town flip or it'd have juste ended.

Wouldn't a Town flip be faster?

I'd kinda like to think Plot is pulling her notes together now. :/

[VysePresident]

No hasty lynches, on Espe or otherwise.

Talky talk.

Yeah. Not gonna lie, I'm still leaning Espeon, but I'll sleep on it, and talk with you about it tomorrow, deal?

Speaking of which, I owe Postie my games, but my list is so out of date, I'm still fixing it. I'll catch that tomorrow too, for sure. Got the whole day free, basically, bar some piano & programming stuff.

[VysePresident]

I was willing to hammer, you idiot.

I literally stayed up the whole night.

Yes, I know, I should have done it, but I REALLY wanted it to be BNL.

[VysePresident]

Like seriously, you think *I* NK'd LQ, and didn't RB him?

Give me credit, I'm no idiot.

[VysePresident]

I'm not today's lynch. Tomorrow, if we screw it up, and I can't talk you out of it, sure, but no, I'm going to be angry if I lose my perfect record to you waffling like this.

I wasn't loud, but for pity's sake, do you think I don't take the easy lynch under these circumstances? This game is unwinnable with you, Postie, and Pie treated as Town, the way I've been heading.

But I'm backing off for a second.

[VysePresident]

Postie, I'm finishing the new list now, I'll have it up in about 15 minutes. I'll try to highlight a couple games worth looking at.

[VysePresident]

If Vyse is today's lynch there is no tomorrow.

There's no town explanation for Vyse's behaviour around the Titus lynch.

V/LA, disengaged, having one read?

Do tell.

Actually, waht bugs me is that you've ISO'd me before, and you only just jumped on this now. :/

[VysePresident]

No, I'm angry with some stuff that happened earlier, and then I come to this.

My apologies for calling you an idiot, but this is not good, and I'm DARNED if I'm losing my record to this.

One more day, no mater what. After that, fine, but I want one more try.

[VysePresident]

Ask Postie.

I wasn't biting on the Pie lynch.

I wasn't loud, but I was Townreading the two of you, and Postie.

This is a guaranteed loss for ScumVyse, by POE alone.

I don't really know what to say, because I know how you death tunnel, and I don't have the energy for this. I don't want to AtE, but some bad stuff is happening right now, and just...ugh.

[VysePresident]

Postie, here you go. This isn't a full list, but it's got a decent selection. Let me know if you really need more.

Completed Games

• Newbie 1547: Mafia of Philosophical Extremes. (Alignment:
  Scum
  . Replaced Todd Bellington Day #1. Lynched Day #3 for a loss.
  Town victory
  .)
• Micro 429: m9++ (Alignment:
  Town - Vanilla Townie
  . Survived to a flawless
  Town win
  on Day #2.)
• Open 586: Playing with Elements (Alignment:
  Town - Elemental Doctor
  . Survived to Day #7 for a
  Town win
  . Caught Dodgy & sorta caught Insanity.)
• AP and BRO's Excellent Adventure (Alignment:
  Town - Loud Rolecop
  . Survived to Day #3 for a relatively disappointing
  Town win
  , after scum were sabotaged by a poor sport.)
• Open 585: Jungle Republic (Alignment:
  Town: Vanilla Townie
  - Replaced out on Day #3 by ABR, who was lynched on Day #7 for a loss to
  The Mafia
• We Didn't Playtest This Mafia: Alignment:
  Volcano Mafia - Custodian
  - Scumthread - NK'd by
  Berlin Mafia
  on Night #2 due to Mod error. Status: Game ended in a Draw on Day #11.
• SMITE Role Madness Mafia +(Egyptian Neighborhood (Alignment:
  Town - ???
  . Replaced out Day #1 by: Heartless, who was lynched Day #4. Game ended on Day # for a
  LOSS
  to the
  Mafia
  .)
• Open 597: Jungle Republic V2 - Alignment:
  Mafia Goon
  - Scumthread. Replaced Pegasus Day #1. Replaced out Day #1 by ZZZX, due to IRL issues. Status: Slot survived to a perfect
  Mafia Win

  /color] following Day #4.

Open 593: Pick Your Power X/Y - Alignment:

Town: 1-shot Watcher

. Replaced by Regfan on Day #3 during IRL difficulties mentioned above. Slot was NK'd on Night #3, and the game ended on Day #5 for a

Town Win

.

[VysePresident]

So, the Newbie is probably the best view of my typical, basic scum game.

We Didn't Playtest This Mafia happened during a great deal of IRL stress, much like right now, and I still carried it hard. You can see me discussing strategy in the scumthread, and laughing at the lurking scumreads that happened during

Pick Your Power is a game that started well, and got overwhelmed by IRL issues. This is probably the best example of me playing like this, and the only reason my slot wasn't lynched was that the person I was scumreading ended up flipping scum, unlike BNL. It was pathetic.

Micro 429 is a good example of a good Town game from me.

The thing to note is that I have no trouble faking a case at all. I fought Copper head on in WDPT, and if I was scum, I'd have been all over RC when Pie was scumreading him. I don't take my tough targets out with a NK, particularly in a field full of bodyguards. I take out people who I can't manipulate, or use.

I don't know, it's self meta, but, much as I hate to use it, I do not played a disengaged scum game, even when I'm a mess. As it is, I'm frantically trying to figure out if it's Espeon, or if I really missed something on RC. I'm sorry, that's not how I'm supposed ot play, but I"K mliteraly screwing myself over paying this game. If I weren't in serious danger of a lynch, I'd replace out, but I'm darned if I'm going to give Trojan's snipe at me any freaking credit.

Yes, AtE, whatever. I'll try to come up with something useful in a bit, but I dunno.

I know why I play the way I do. That's easy to touch on. I just don't know. Espeon feels like Bella, but darnit I was Townreading RC before this. I didn't think he had a path to victory as scum, but...yeah. :/

[VysePresident]

One more thing, RC.

When it came down to Titus or no-lynch? If I was going for a no-lynch, do you think I'd have confirmed my presence by posting? I didn't want a Titus lynch over BNL, sure.

Do you think I'd have then let LQ hammer for me when it was obvious that BNL wasn't happening? I did something like that in the Newbie game, but I COMMITTED to defending my partner, completely. Do you think I go half way, putting myself in the line of fire, and then fail to hammer, when it was obvious?

You're cherry picking the one thing, out of context, and it goes entirely along with the playstyle you're using to defend yourself.

[VysePresident]

Screw this, no. You push Pie like crazy, then when it gets no traction, it's a reaction test.

You also don't seem to care whether or not I passed.

VOTE: RC

Give me this one. If he's Town, I'll accept the lynch tomorrow with good grace.

[VysePresident]

I don't think you planned it particularly well.

You keep arguing that you should be treated like a mafiosi genius and that justifies the fact that you didn't hammer someone you were claiming to lean scum on.

That doesn't fly in my town.

I have a basic level of competence. LQ NK would be stupid.

Coming from you, this is infuriating.

[VysePresident]

Screw this, no. You push Pie like crazy, then when it gets no traction, it's a reaction test.

You also don't seem to care whether or not I passed.

VOTE: RC

Give me this one. If he's Town, I'll accept the lynch tomorrow with good grace.

Well, if you're confident, I'll take this one.

[VysePresident]

...I can't English.

I dunno, your ego is a constant.

Pie is Town, Postie's Town.

I'm Town.

That leaves you or Espeon.

Espeon is scummy because of having no content. It's infuriating.

If nothing else, make him weigh in today, because I have a suspicion he's Bella V2.

[VysePresident]

Like, I don't buy this RC.

Your timing is ridiculous.

You need two lynches, and you're good enough to not bite easy on Espeon.

[VysePresident]

Someone effing talk to me please.

I think I'm hitting it, but I don't want to confbias.

This is a mess.

[VysePresident]

Like, I can't get him mad for anything.

Regardless of my tendency to walk stuff back, he's posted in response in a way that implies his ego is not irked.

I've looked at his Town games before, and that ego was one of the things that stuck out most to me.

[VysePresident]

And grats, you killed my apathy.

I wish we'd done this three days back, when my life wasn't freaking falling apart, but screw you, you win.

I won't replace, so I'll fight.

[VysePresident]

Not mad with you, just everything else.

I'm going to have to start taking a minute before I post again.

I'm legit mad with myself now. I never do this.

[VysePresident]

Like seriously, you think *I* NK'd LQ, and didn't RB him?

Give me credit, I'm no idiot.

All you've done is said that we shouldn't think you're scum because you're too smart to do something like that.

Strikes me as hitting too close to home, no?

And grats, you killed my apathy.

Since I'm doing self-meta anyway, before someone wonders at my apathy disappearing when in danger of a lynch, I highly recommend looking at this game, in which I tried really hard to start strong, started petering out a little, then got scumread by everyone and their dog for the whole game. (My ISO is here.)

I'm not kidding, I do not go down without a fight. Call it what you like, I literally stayed up multiple, borderline 48 hour sprees that game. Yes, you are hitting close to home. It's just not what you're implying it is.

Also, RE: Disengagement - A large part of that was me having to go V/LA right at the beginning of the game, then helping my siblings with their Black belt tests, and stuff like that. Call it what you like, I had stuff to deal with.

[VysePresident]

Dunno, I've basically already turned the thread into my ISO with stuff about me, and RC's flip.

I'm going to take a step back, finish reading the thread again, like I keep promising, and we'll work from there. I need time to think, anyway.

[VysePresident]

Didn't someone get a room with Espeon?

Did he say/do anything at all?

[VysePresident]

Like, please tell me I'm not an idiot, please?

I really want someone to just freaking talk with me.

[VysePresident]

Thanks.

Sorry for whining so much.

TBH, I'm not really sure what to do, and I'm finding I'm not quite as detached as I normally like to be.

Might be why I'm having trouble reading people.

[VysePresident]

Did you not see where I outlined my reasoning?

Or where I mentioned Espeon being the scummiest by default, rather than an actual read?

[VysePresident]

But do keep cherry picking.

I'm off to help my little brother with some stuff. I don't think I'll be gone long, but just FYI. Have fun.

Deal's open, RC. How confident are you?

[VysePresident]

I've noticed, RC. Believe me, I've noticed.

Anyway, I kinda want to hear from Pie and Espeon too, so...eh. Yeah.

Really do have to leave. Catch you in a few. :/

[VysePresident]

Postie, can you tell what you & RC were saying about Pie last night?

Mildly curious about this, given RC's post in the QT thingy.

Later!

[VysePresident]

FRick my life, fine RC, one second.

[VysePresident]

If Vyse is today's lynch there is no tomorrow.

There's no town explanation for Vyse's behaviour around the Titus lynch.

V/LA, disengaged, having one read?

Do tell.

Actually, waht bugs me is that you've ISO'd me before, and you only just jumped on this now. :/

Ask Postie.

I wasn't biting on the Pie lynch.

I wasn't loud, but I was Townreading the two of you, and Postie.

This is a guaranteed loss for ScumVyse, by POE alone.

I don't really know what to say, because I know how you death tunnel, and I don't have the energy for this. I don't want to AtE, but some bad stuff is happening right now, and just...ugh.

One more thing, RC.

When it came down to Titus or no-lynch? If I was going for a no-lynch, do you think I'd have confirmed my presence by posting? I didn't want a Titus lynch over BNL, sure.

Do you think I'd have then let LQ hammer for me when it was obvious that BNL wasn't happening? I did something like that in the Newbie game, but I COMMITTED to defending my partner, completely. Do you think I go half way, putting myself in the line of fire, and then fail to hammer, when it was obvious?

You're cherry picking the one thing, out of context, and it goes entirely along with the playstyle you're using to defend yourself.

Screw this, no. You push Pie like crazy, then when it gets no traction, it's a reaction test.

You also don't seem to care whether or not I passed.

VOTE: RC

Give me this one. If he's Town, I'll accept the lynch tomorrow with good grace.

I don't think you planned it particularly well.

You keep arguing that you should be treated like a mafiosi genius and that justifies the fact that you didn't hammer someone you were claiming to lean scum on.

That doesn't fly in my town.

I have a basic level of competence. LQ NK would be stupid.

Coming from you, this is infuriating.

...I can't English.

I dunno, your ego is a constant.

Pie is Town, Postie's Town.

I'm Town.

That leaves you or Espeon.

Espeon is scummy because of having no content. It's infuriating.

If nothing else, make him weigh in today, because I have a suspicion he's Bella V2.

Like, I don't buy this RC.

Your timing is ridiculous

.

You need two lynches, and you're good enough to not bite easy on Espeon.

(Please note, I'm writing this frantically, and keep expanding on points. It's kinda killing the flow of my post, but I've basically just about missed dinner, and can't wait any longer to fix it.)


TL;DR You "suddenly" notice that I was weird on the Titus lynch, following a Pie wagon not getting any pressure. You ignore the fact that you've blatantly seen the wheels turning in the Pie/Vyse/RC room, and Postie's confirmation that I had already passed your 'test'.

If I'm to believe you, you never even Townreading me. Waffling would at least have been believable, but there are very few people in the world who hard scumread me when I start posting all my thoughts. So far, they're either Myko, DocBalance/DuckyB, (offsite), or scum. Even Myko walked it back after a short period, and Doc got the idea.

Also, again, the timing. You had this information for the longest time, you were practically begging me to lynch Pie....and I'm supposed to believe that was all a reaction test.

I don't.

Tell me how ScumVyse wins by getting four people to Townread each other at this stage? I might not have been loud, but I was undercutting your attempt to lynch Pie rather hard, and was even starting to Townread you, because of your waffling & relative similarities between what I was thinking, and what you were. (BNL was one, Pie I could see paranoia taking effect here.)

But this doesn't make any sense, and you're smarter than that. This would have been the last chance to grab a quick, stupidity induced lynch on an otherwise stronger player, and then go for Espeon, using slightly weaker Town players to have a half decent shot at winning the game.

In all honesty, while calling me a stronger player is a bit generous at the moment, I think this is what you're doing now. That's why I think you're not biting on Espeon, despite it being easy. He's tomorrow's lynch.

LIke, feel free to talk to me. I'm a waffly son of a gun, even when I'm pushing for grand gestures, but Espeonage was a weak, this is the only person not making themselves Town read. Now you've done something scummy. I'm not quite as set on you as you say you are on me, but you're a legitimate scumread now.

Postie confirms I did not have any serious interest in persueing a Pie lynch. (My words were roughly "talk to me about this, because I know I'm not very involved, but I want to bang their heads together and call them Town right now.")

You ignore this.

My Town read on you was a combination of seeing you waffling more, watching you

But as you say, in this field, it's got to be somebody. I've got to be wrong on something. It's you or Espeon, and I get one more shot before I get lynched, at best.

It's also aggravating that your Scum case on me amounts to your Town case on you. (Not to mention you follow the same bloody steps I did, regarding BNL,

You even touched my paranoia except for making sure you were there to lynch Titus) I want to make a snarky line about some guilt projection, but honestly, it's just decent play on your part. But it's still scummy.

Honestly, this is basically me making my case on you, but I'll listen if you want to talk, I guess.

I mean, if you'd checked out my scum play in WDPT, and the Newbie, then my Town game in Pick your Power or that Micro, it should be

easy

for you.

Then try to tell me I'm using meta to defend myself, against players who have no clue what my meta is, when I could have easily sidestepped it by acting like how y'all think TownVyse would have acted.

Anyway, I've spent way too long on this, and am most likely going to miss dinner tonight. I'm leaving for real, so have fun with the thread.

I swear, if you shout this thread into submission....

[VysePresident]

Basically, you're the equivalent of MurderWeasel in that one offsite game I linked.

I Townread you for a while, but this just feels like it's freaking obvious now.

I'll catch you in a bit.

[VysePresident]

TL;DR You "suddenly" notice that I was weird on the Titus lynch, following a Pie wagon not getting any pressure. You ignore the fact that you've blatantly seen the wheels turning in the Pie/Vyse/RC room, and Postie's confirmation that I had already passed your 'test'.

I was clear to Postie last night that you were my primary interest.

Don't pretend that this is a change of mind.

I swear, if you shout this thread into submission....

Scum claim.

If anyone else has anything that they want me to respond to in that let me know.

Yeah, likewise, backing off. This is getting dumb.

Just...yeah, this is silly.

[VysePresident]

I am, regardless of what happens from here on out, not going to unvote.

You don't think it's sketchy that Espe's his primary scumread and he says to vote me then he'll let himself get lynched?

C'mon. leggo.

This is also a terrible post, in context of my actual reads.

[VysePresident]

This makes no sense, you're a wonderful distraction if I wanted to avoid posting content. Look at Copper in WDPT.

The other still had support from Pie, and I'm darned if I could'nt have talked somebody into him.

[VysePresident]

Postie, I get that you're Townreading RC. Just, talk with me a bit?

Why?

I don't pretend to know him well, but isn't this kinda iffy?

Pie? Espeon?

[VysePresident]

This is frustrating.

[VysePresident]

P-Edit: RC, what point is there in giving you a room now? I feel like you're asking me to give you a platform to shout postie to your side. (Scum claim x2?) Even if you're not scum, I don't particularly want that. (In before this is misread as me 'knowing' he's Town, as opposed to not knowing what the heck to believe.) [In before this is read as me being too self-aware!] {In before this is supposed to be me being uncomfortable.}

I'm giving my vote to Postie, because of the stuff below, so if she really wants the room, you can have it.

-----------

I already informed Plot, during a stupid breakdown in an otherwise casual conversation, but I'm going to have to replace out.

Since I've already brought up my real difficulties, I'll explain briefly. It's the least I owe you guys. I've done the math, and I have three-four days tops to finish some projects related to pulling my life back on course. (Medical issues threw my education way off of a formerly bright course a while ago, short version, and I'm trying to get back on track in a year. I won't hit you guys with the details. They're both tedious and kinda stupid, to be honest.) I do not have time to pull an all-night battle, fighting somebody's read on me. I'm already pulling all-nighters trying to finish this stuff.

Frankly, I should have seen the warning signs before I joined this game, but there's a part of me that doesn't get that I don't have the same amount of free time that I used to, anymore, and I frankly loved the idea of playing in Plot's game. To be honest, I feel like a jerk about this.

Frankly, this is humiliating for me. I do not like wearing my emotions on my sleeves at the best of times. It used to be a point of pride for me, in fact, until very recently, and it's been getting worse for a while. I don't think RC is capable of lynching me, if it comes to a fight, for all his bluster, but I'm not really capable of fighting. I'm literally shaking just writing this - it has more to do with those other things

In all honesty, I know everyone's going to hate this, but part of me was hoping this would just be an easy ride, and I could finish the game 'honorably', so to speak. Even when it wasn't, I wanted to try. But I haven't even started my "Vyse Death Spiral pattern', and I'm already completely drained.

I keep trying to read, and my head clouds up, and the stress has become enourmous. I need to let something go, and the more I think about it, this has to be one of the things I leave behind. I expect I'll be taking another hiatus from MS too, because I can't keep doing this.

-------

Under the circumstances, I kinda want to at least offer something useful before I head out. I know it doesn't look like it, but I put a lot of effort into this game, and I'd sorta like to at least throw what I have out there.

The one thing that bugs me about Pie was that he was coming to a pretty decent Townread on myself in our room, including over RC, and seems rather open to the idea of lynching me. The bit on Espeonage felt a bit like a token push. Otherwise, I'd say he's too Town.

Even now, I don't actually think he's scum, and would certainly not vote him first, or even second without something more, but I've been thinking since my initial vote on RC, and this is a possibility. Watch him, mostly. I'd suggest pressuring, but frankly, I don't know how. I rely on other people to pressure for me, and some clumsy attempts on my own part, usually.

RC is hard because I know he has such tunnel vision. I don't like his timing, the idea of a reaction test is fakeable, and given that he doesn't care about Postie's remarks at all regarding my reaction to it, I'm coming to the conclusion that he's scum. I'm worried about OMgUS, but I think there's legitimate reason for concern here. I really don't know what to make of his offer to maybe, possibly reconsider if I give him the room. That' feels completely irrelevant, and stupid on my part regardless of alignment, I think. I suspect it's a bullying tactic, but eh. Regardless, I'll let Postie make that call.

Espeon is an auto scumread mostly because he hasn't done anything at all, bar his vote on Titus. I'm losing faith in him rapidly, as it comes to him against other Townreads, but with RC's jump, he's kinda getting pushed to the wayside. I'd probably lynch him after RC, and he's still the best compromise lynch.

Basically, RC and Espeon need to be in the crosshairs, and Pie needs observation, but deserves some credit. If it's Postie....I'd say I give up, but I kinda already am. Regardless, I have a very strong Townread on her.

Later guys. I'm legitimately sorry to have to do this. I tried to stick it out, but I think I just made things worse.

Also, my blood sugar is killing me after missing dinner. Not worth it.

@Mod - I'm entrusting my vote to Postie, including the Room vote, while waiting for a replacement.

[VysePresident]

It's not you, RC. I honestly relish the idea of going against you sometime.

I just can't handle anything more right now. I've come to the conclusion I cannot handle this game and keep up with responsibilities, and trying is just driving me insane.

[VysePresident]

Well, GG Postie. Thanks mod for the game, and I'm sorry I couldn't carry it through to completion.

That was legitimately impressive.

Thanks for not twisting the knife when I was feeling particularly screwed up, Postie. I hope your own medical issues get better.

[VysePresident]

@Mod - The Scum QT links to the Mod QT, FYI.

[VysePresident]

Yeah, I'm torn between amusement and frustration at realizing I still can't figure out where I went wrong reading you. Maybe I need to pay attention to more optimal play.

There's a very specific type of player I know I'm bad at reading. You are probably the single most dangerous one I've ever come across yet.

I hope we get in another game together. Only problem is I'd feel so bad about my inevitable scum read on you.

[VysePresident]

Like she did a fantastic job of being affable and looking like she was scumhunting but I look back and she doesn't really have any strong reads nor reasons for them.

So yeah, I think she's telling the truth that she wasn't trying to be manipulative which is why she hoodwinked me so thoroughly; she was way too casual and didn't act threatened or put on the spot at all.

Her reads weren't even meh though. She had reasons.

She was even bouncing back and forth about the Espeonage with me on the night she killed me.

Mhm, this happened to be before with a close friend of mine before, too. She completely caught me off guard, just by

Scary thing is, I really think Postie handled it better. She really seemed engaged, thoughtful, and yeah, so darn casual all the way through.

It was very well played.

I knew you no protected and I felt like it was a safe way to get extra towncred.

...And you scumread me for it. :/

Funny thing is, you were right that I actually might just have killed BnL were I scum, just because he was both a less predictable element, and less likely to be lynched.

I wasn't kidding about the Titus associatives though. I'm a much more waffley son of a gun as Town than Scum. (Not that I haven't death tunneled as Town on occasion, but eh.)

[VysePresident]

Lurkers are annoying because you can't tell what they're thinking, and I know Espe's a good player. I didn't want to get close to the end of the game and have Espe suddenly reveal he was scumreading me and push for my lynch.
Plus I figured he hadn't done enough to warrant being bodyguarded by anyone, but apparently I was doubly wrong about that.

This. I agree with this so hard.