Micro 441: Less Pressure

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Pine

[Xayzeck]

Not really, more like random voting stage post position. Xayzeck voted Pine and was the third vote on the wagon in Post 14. What was Xayzeck's purpose here? Was it a pressure vote? If so, it kind of sucks since the wagon's built on pillars on sand and likely to crumble anyway, not giving much pressure. There's a few explanations, but I think one is slightly more likely than the others. The style of Xayzeck's post imitates the style of xRECKONERx's Post 12 and Huntress' Post 11: short vote posts without reason. He made the post to blend in.

lol

[Xayzeck]

If you want something, why don't you ask me instead of talking about "Maybe he'll give a reason later"

If you're not going to look for these answers yourself, you can get lynched too.

[Xayzeck]

I know

It was for both her and ++--, though more on the latter.

[Xayzeck]

I'm already voting scum

[Xayzeck]

Not reaaaaally seaing the case on Xayzeck though I understand where it's coming from and have seen that from scum before.

So shouldn't you think I'm scum?

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Dry-fit

[Xayzeck]

I've seen it from scum but I don't think it can only come from scum.

So you're saying that town can fit in too, or that me joining the Pine wagon could have other motivations, town motivations, BESIDES trying to fit in?

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: ++--

This or Pine

Dry-fit isn't as strong a read.

[Xayzeck]

Hey, Xay. Long time no see.

Could you maybe posts some reasons?

We actually played together pretty recently.

Reasons for which vote?

[Xayzeck]

I've called out what I don't really like about Dry-fit, not really a scumread, not yet anyway.

Pine is scum for his weak Dry-fit push.

[Xayzeck]

Space Invader would be said game

[Xayzeck]

I first voted Pine because I wanted to wagon though.

[Xayzeck]

Reason.

[Xayzeck]

Pine.

I don't have any read on Huntress

[Xayzeck]

I find your cases uncompelling. If Dry Fit is not scum, who else do you suspect?

Above post was responding to this

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Jingle

I think the Huntress case sucks

[Xayzeck]

gasp

SCUM!

[Xayzeck]

I have a light scum read on ++--

So does everyone else in this game. Get in line.

Rather surprising he hasn't been lynched yet then

[Xayzeck]

He totally told me to bus, wanna vote him with me? Then once he flips scum I'll get all the towncred!

[Xayzeck]

jk your reads suck more than a black hole tth

[Xayzeck]

More surprising to me is how there's no takers for the IC-blessed wagon. Instead, they opted to make their move on ++--.

I don't see what's wrong with that

[Xayzeck]

I know xay and I'm pretty sure we can figure each other out eventually. I'll get back to you once I've got a read on him.

I think the "figure each other out eventually" only works one way, because I've never had a game where I managed to nail you perfectly so I can't confidently say I'll sort you out sooner or later

[Xayzeck]

I have yet to see anything resembling a ++-- case.

Coming from someone who said the Huntress push was bad, why are you requesting for a case 6 pages into the game? You're not gonna get anything particularly useful with 6 pages of content.

[Xayzeck]

Reads are more or less the same since I last shared them.

[Xayzeck]

@mod: V/LA until the weekend

Sorry, I'll have to put this on the backburner for now

[Xayzeck]

Yeah, sorry not going to let you get away with that.

You'll drive town to a scumwin of you've resorted to pushes like this.

[Xayzeck]

#183 is horrible AND scummy. All other Xay posts seemed horrible in a not-particularly-scummy way. Not so sure what to think...

You're also still scum.

Town is blind.

[Xayzeck]

Xay, talk to me about +. Talk to me about Pine. Talk to me about Dry-Fit. How have these reads evolved. What are you thinking. What about me? What do you think about me. I might be able to get behind this lynch. We'll see.

+ is scum, if you disagree I can elaborate on a few posts for you.

Pine used to be scum, now I'm not as sure.

Dryfit is a leantown, mostly gut. I also have a townread on Huntress, so that kinda has Pine as PoEscum too.

[Xayzeck]

Lol derp I thought there were 2 other town.

I'm probably more confident in Huntress

[Xayzeck]

oh wait no I'm correct

Yeah those reads are still fine. Still like Huntress for town more than dryfit

Jingle, I think you're scum. Pine I'm not as sure honestly, ++-- I'd happily lynch as well.

[Xayzeck]

hello gm

can you get your other IC's read in check?

thanks

oh lord 7 hours

VOTE: Pine

++-- is a good wagon too if you guys can flash him

[Xayzeck]

That looks a lot like faked ignorance to me.

ignorance to what? the incoming deadline?

[Xayzeck]

Actually,

VOTE: Xayzeck

That looks a lot like faked ignorance to me. Like, there's no way that's legitimate.

if you wanna vote me for deadline reasons that's cool too

but you wanna look justified

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Xayzeck

Blind

Vote: Xayzeck

Not the votes themselves, per se, but your reasoning and timing have felt quite a bit off. It's a common scum assertion that, just because they've voted scummy people, that that automatically makes their reasons scummy. It ain't true

I haven't gotten much significant vibe from Xayzeck. Sell me on why he's scummy?

That second sentence doesn't make sense. What did you actually mean there?

As for Xay, it's just a gut feeling, as I said earlier.

Not as blind

Is that dissonance painful.

Yeah. I'm kind of antsy to see a flip to see where to go from here.

Vote: Xayzeck.

Could be scum

VOTE: Xayzeck

He's scum and he's dying today.

Scum

Because there is significant case on me being scum, and you guys should be competent enough to realise that.

At worst, I'm apathetic town, and best I'm lurkytown.

I've pushed 0 scum motivation. Don't be dumb.

VOTE: Jingle

And you can make way better pushes like that if you cared about solving this game, which you clearly don't since you're pushing me, therefore you're scum.

Not rocket science, guys.

[Xayzeck]

I see 0 town motivation in any of your posts. This reminds me of a game we played, where you were wax and Wisdom dropped off of the radar. Lemme look once more at your alignment in that game? Oh yeah...

Of course you don't, you're scum

Failure to point out scum motivation also noted

What exactly about my play reminds you if a game I played a year ago? My meta has changed since that game, good try though.

[Xayzeck]

What exactly is hard to understand about surface level reads and going with the flow being scum motivated? I don't have to explain things that are obvious.

And you can make way better pushes like that if you cared about solving this game, which you clearly don't since you're pushing me, therefore you're scum.

Back at ya, buddy. Have we had the discussion about hypocrisy as a scumtell? I thought I mentioned it to you back when you were a newbie. Ah well, you're projecting your own behavior onto me and calling it scummy.

I remember enough about your meta to remember you being apathetic as fuck as scum, and your own wiki seems to support me by telling me you're more interested in playing as town.

Your apathy and lack of presence is exactly what I expect from scum-you here. You tried to let the thread apathy foster until deadline, pushed a deadline lynch, and then realized you're boned when the game revealed itself to be independent of deadlines. Sorry, Xay. I love you and I love playing with you, but this time you drew scum and I caught you.

Actually this time I drew town I'm just not doing my same townplay

It's not about hypocrisy, unless I'm misunderstanding you. I am pretty apathetic as scum, yeah, and I am more motivated in games as town, but I am town and you're reading me solely on meta right now, AFAIK, and I'm telling you right now that you're reading me wrong

Because I am town, regardless of whether I fit your interpretation of my scummeta

I was busy with RL, and when I came back it was deadline, and I forgot it was nightless so I just moved to a compromise wagon.

Where is the scum? Spell this out for me Jingle

[Xayzeck]

Hi gm

[Xayzeck]

gm if you hammer me now

you'll know that there is at least 1 scum in Jingle, Dryfit and Huntress

Ofc I know this now, I don't think all of them are scum though

[Xayzeck]

++-- is probably the scum off-wagon

idk who's the last scum tho

[Xayzeck]

The pointedness doesn't seem genuine, and hasn't all game.

hm?

[Xayzeck]

On the other hand there's a part of me that wants to turn this wagon around and lynch Huntress.

goodmorning, what's you opinion of her?

Wildly flipflopping.

Why not Pine again?

What's the Huntress scumcase

[Xayzeck]

yeas

like if it's flipflopping then what makes you think she is scum

[Xayzeck]

You certainly have great skills at not presenting a case.

It's called being lazy

Doesn't take a case to see you're scum though

[Xayzeck]

Back to the "gm hammers me, at least 1 scum on wagon ahemahem Jingle"

[Xayzeck]

What gave me that impression was Xay's switch to Pine at the end of Day one.

associative before a flip?

gasp

[Xayzeck]

Jingle's recent stance on Pine sucks

Huntress' stance on Pine also sucks

I think we could be dealing with Jingle/Huntress/Pine, but then ++-- isn't there so something is wrong.

It could just be that Pine is lynchbaity right now so Jingle and Huntress both want to lynch him to some degree but are going with their compromise right now, or they're both town and Pine is scum trying to lurk through while get lynched

hm decisions decisions

[Xayzeck]

Jingle is scum, because it doesn't take a lynch to notice how weak his push is on me. He's calling me scum off my scum-meta from a year ago?

Even if it were applicable, I've played like this as town as well. I could pull a game up for you where I did literally nothing but got townread for it.

Also since he's started the tunnel, his stances on other players have been super limited, and when they do appear they're mostly on the fence.

I'm willing to bet Jingle scum is playing it this way:
Xay isn't putting in much effort, I could push it as scummy and use his scummeta, since he says it himself that he's more interested as town than scum, like in his wiki. My previous games where he is scum back this up, so he can't refute the point about "meta only works if you play with me". After that, when he flips town, I won't get as much heat, because:
a) Everybody saw him as scummy, not just me
b) Even if he did nail any scum, he'd get brushed off because he didn't explain his reads a lot so everything he says will likely be ignored
c) Since he's pretty lynchbaity, everybody on the wagon could just be mislead town on a town-who-is-scummy wagon and I could slip by

I could push that for a lot of people, but I think it fits Jingle most since:
a) He's played with me the most probably, and I think he understands my meta fairly well
b) He's the only one who's yelling for my lynch

I think ++-- is scum because most of his analysis/reads he has shared don't seem to look much into alignment/feel really superficial and he's just trying to look like an active contributor to discussion

I think Huntress is kinda town based of Jinglescum's early push on her, but I don't have a big impression on her. I don't have much of a read on Dryfit and Pine either, but I'm leaning Pinescum over Dryfit. These three are like nulltown/nullscum kinda reads.

[Xayzeck]

He didn't need to say anything here. But he is. He's trying to find out why people think the way they do, and yet he's still holding true to his read. He's not going where the wind may take him, but actually taking a stance and fighting for his reads.

Although, looking at that last one again, he might be a Xay partner.

Stuff like this, with Jinglescum, strongly suggests Pine is his scumbuddy as opposed to potential mislynch.

[Xayzeck]

Jingle/++--/Pine

Yeah that's about it

[Xayzeck]

ugh i don't know if i want to hammer xay now

Yoi should ask Jingle to repeat his scumcase eh that'll be handy

[Xayzeck]

Me putting less effort than normal is not indicative of my alignment, I just don't feel particularly motivated to play mafia in general. My activity sidewide is this way.

I'm interested, do you have reasons for Xayscum without meta? How convinced are you without comparisons to how I play as town/scum.

[Xayzeck]

I read and I want to lynch Pine. Xay would be for information or progress, but he's not screaming town either.

What about ++-- or Jingle?

[Xayzeck]

The case started as a meta observation, but your reaction was decidedly not town. It's noted that you're about to try to convince me you're not scum.

No, I'm trying to tell you your read on me is shit, and because it's shit I think you're scum.

Maybe you could elaborate on this reaction thing

[Xayzeck]

If he flips town, my bet's on Jingle, Huntress, and pisskop.

I'm not too sure about Huntress and pisskop, can you share why?

[Xayzeck]

-snipped quotes-

Yup, totally new. Now help me lynch xay.

304 - Because I have never OMGUS'd as town? Pretty damn sure that was how I used to catch scum about a year+ ago

309 - Where exactly did I give you the impression I was careful as town, and careless as scum? Anyway I thought that scum would choose a NK target during the day, and kill inbetween the dayphases, but I was mistaken, so that was why I wanted to lynch before the night.

[Xayzeck]

If Xay flips scum, my bet's on ++-- and Pine.

If he flips town, my bet's on Jingle, Huntress, and pisskop.

Just need that flip now.

WAIT

so if I'm town

++-- and Pine are town?

WHAT

[Xayzeck]

sure

VOTE: Pine

[Xayzeck]

If Xay flips scum, my bet's on ++-- and Pine.

If he flips town, my bet's on Jingle, Huntress, and pisskop.

Just need that flip now.

WAIT

so if I'm town

++-- and Pine are town?

WHAT

HI TTH HI

[Xayzeck]

In school, catching up tonight

[Xayzeck]

Is this mistaken tunnely-as-fuck Jingle, or just scumjingle hm

[Xayzeck]

++-- might be scum regardless. I think Pine's recent inactivity is the source of most of the hate, which isn't really a good reason.

then that has nothing to do with me flipping scum, does it?

[Xayzeck]

in fact, if they're scumminess is independent of my flip, then shouldn't they be considered for lynch too with Xaytown flip?

[Xayzeck]

If it helps you at all I'll tell you before hand I'm town

[Xayzeck]

Viomi, not sure how you arrived at the Jingle townread

pls explain

[Xayzeck]

Because this is his scum play.

I've played with him before and this is most definitely his scum play.

We have how many games together again? As I recall, not enough for you to read me with just meta

Maybe if you could towncase Jingle without using a preflip associative

[Xayzeck]

picking up prod, will catch up later

[Xayzeck]

Oh god Viomi

I've found my last scum

[Xayzeck]

Yeah I like this vote more now

[Xayzeck]

Oh god Viomi

I've found my last scum

You're just butthurt that I lynched your scummy ass our last game.

Die.

Oh look

another one that's using meta

[Xayzeck]

I await the day when someone can actually scumcase me without meta but by using my actual play in the game

which will never happen

[Xayzeck]

I'm still down for a Jingle wagon btw

[Xayzeck]

Except the game I'm referring to. In which I made a case against your scummy ass. You were playing exactly as you are now.

Guess what? You flipped scum.

Diiiiie.

Someone else give me an opinion on this slot because I may just be confbiasing now

[Xayzeck]

Does that make me scum?

[Xayzeck]

So here's the game plan

Lynch me

Lynch Jingle

Lynch Viomi

Lynch whoever else last scum is

[Xayzeck]

I feel this thread has reached a horrifying impasse.

halp

Lynch me and maybe something will happen

I think pisskop is kinda scum too

[Xayzeck]

I do not know

In case it isn't clear mafia isn't at the top of my priorities right now so I don't have my entire head here

[Xayzeck]

Xayzeck: Tell me why you should live past today.

Just lynch me and follow my reads

I should live because I'm town, but once I flip I'm pretty sure town will get their shit together

[Xayzeck]

gj town

Jingle you were pretty obv fmpov

[Xayzeck]

haha somewhere between the "lets lynch obvscum xay" i kinda just figured you weren't really trying at all x]

anyway my play was shite but good job town!