Micro 377: Vengeballs. OVER!!!

[Csareo]

/confirm

[Csareo]

I've only played one game with two mafias before.
As the OP said, town doesn't have much chances of winning.
We need to take our time and make sure to hit scum on day one.

Random Vote
VOTE: clusk92

[Csareo]

~~~Join my wagon folks~~~

[Csareo]

no its Csareo and Espresso

they earn the RVS scum reads

[Csareo]

VOTE: Dr Pants

Pants down the most likely person to be scum.

You are prob pants down from you avi.

and topless.

Vote NackedJogger.

Need to unvote mate

[Csareo]

Vote Espresso

I am sad im not scum in this :/ are you?

Yeah, I'm godfather with Csar

[Csareo]

"we need to take our time and make sure to hit scum"

"random vote"

"join my wagon"

do you see how these statements don't match?

I used random.org's list widget
http://www.random.org/lists/

[Csareo]

"we need to take our time and make sure to hit scum"

"random vote"

"join my wagon"

do you see how these statements don't match?

I used random.org's list widget
http://www.random.org/lists/

There were 9 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

Espressojet

ZZZX
NakedJogger
Dr Pants
Csareo
aphix
Skelda
Clusk92
Bullish
Timestamp: 2014-08-16 23:46:06 UTC

Well, tickle my pickle, looks like I'm scum.

Told you guys.

What, the list doesn't save. It deleted the moment I closed the tab.

[Csareo]

There were 9 items in

your

list. Here they are in random order:

Espressojet

ZZZX
NakedJogger
Dr Pants
Csareo
aphix
Skelda
Clusk92
Bullish
Timestamp: 2014-08-16 23:46:06 UTC

Well, tickle my pickle, looks like I'm scum.

Told you guys.[/quote]

[Csareo]

I think expresso (yum) was saying that isn't realistic.

[Csareo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Espresso

I've seen enough. There's no way Espresso isn't scum. If I get a venge kill and he's alive, I will kill him regardless of what anyone else thinks.

@ Skelda: I don't have authority to say what is good and what is bad in this game. I only have my opinion, and that is what I'm using. Feel free to agree or disagree.

Are you kidding me? It is page three, and you already have a "no way he isn't scum"?
There are probably two things that are questionable, but a definite scum read is just silly.
UNVOTE: clusk
VOTE: drpants

This is scummier than scum.

[Csareo]

So your "No way he isn't scum", is in reality, just a meta lynch?

[Csareo]

Claiming you will venge kill isn't helping your case either.
You are hostage taking those who attempt to lynch you.
Threats are anti-town. I'm willing to take the risk.

[Csareo]

from just a baseline, there's a 50-50 chance that Espresso is scum. this alone strengthens my read considerably

That weakens your reads. A 50-50 gambit isn't as ideal as you would like to think.
@Bullish, yes, you're right about the town "vengekill".

[Csareo]

FOS on pants
Can someone give me the case for expresso?
He could go either way for me.

[Csareo]

UNVOTE: pants
We are making to many assumptions, way to fast.

[Csareo]

I don't know how scum would play in a game like this.
I've played some multi-team games, so the theory is actually the same.
The addition of a vengeball is getting you people to off topic.

Okay, let's say there is a blue mafia and a red mafia member.
They both read each other as scum, and since they know their teammate, they know that person is on the other mafia team.
When I played as scum in a two mafia game, in which we had daytalk (a standard rule), we strategized that we would pick off townies.
Because with 5 vs 4, including the vengeball, the townies would be the most dangerous players.

I guarantee you that mafia are not hunting each other. They are hunting townies.
Right now, it is 5 vs 4. As it should be. Regardless of color or affiliation, there are 4 scum.
They're thinking the same thing. There are 5 townies.
Once we are eliminated, the mafia would then proceed to fight each other.

That is overall the best way to win as scum, and the best way to fight as town.
If the game is played with 5 townies, two red mafia, and two blue mafia, then town will win EVERY time.
Unless......... scum act as one team until town is out of the picture.

I've seen this play out, and all the theories of what scum would do have sounded quite unrealistic so far.
Whomever said "scum would hunt each other" has an FOS. I'll have to look back.
The above comment is something scum would say.

Conclusion:

We need to keep some sectarian violence between the red and blue team.
If they discover each other, then they will cooperate to take us out, and fight 2 vs 2 later on in the game.
Town loses if scum read each other. I'm going to make a hell of a suggestion:

How about we only share scum reads if we're specifically asked?

Letting scum know their future enemy, and current ally, is the WORST possible thing we can do.

[Csareo]

Ok, ignore what I said about limiting information flow. That's only the case when the mafias have control over a NK.

I completely disagree that the mafias will try to kill the town first.

In this set up for mafia Red, the town and Mafia Blue are identical, except for the fact that town has a vengekill and mafia doesn't. So, the mafia will try to hunt each other, both because it's less risky and for towncred. However, mafia needs to stay alive mor than it needs to kill people.

The optimal strategy for town... Is to hunt scum. I have no idea how, because ever you want to use the votes the exact same way -- kill the other guys, stay alive. Townies should care less about dying, because we have the vengekill.

Absolutely false. The red team and blue team want town to actively hunt the other team.
Your theory would only be detrimental to scum. Town, is hunting scum, whether they are blue or red.
Ideally, blue or red mafia would aid in the search for the other team, while also hunting town.

If blue mafia is eliminated, then town is only searching for red mafia.
If red mafia is eliminated, then 5 players are searching for blue mafia.
What odds sound better to you, if you were scum?

5 town vs 4 scum
5 town vs 2 scum vs 2 scum

I have seen this happen and work. Scum have no reason to hunt each other now, because cooperation gives them a HUGE advantage over town.
Town is overpowered right now, yet both factions have to kill town to win the game. If both factions have to kill town, then both factions benefit by killing town as a 4 man team.

[Csareo]

Shorter summary: Both factions have to kill town. If scum is divided, and town has a vengekill, that makes town overpowered and impossible to defeat. If scum is united, then the odds are evened in their fight with town.

[Csareo]

One of you ass kissers is scum.

[Csareo]

Yeah, and NJ's posts are a little creepy.
Can we keep it down with the nudity talk?

[Csareo]

He is my #1 read right now. We have 12 days, so I'm going to review what you said about his meta change.
If it checks out, I'll put a pressure vote on him.

[Csareo]

You are a bit eager to lynch, but I have a town read on you for scum hunting.
I don't like having these games move to fast.

[Csareo]

PE btw

[Csareo]

I agree with your lurking charge on ZZZX.
Same goes for Bullish. His scum meta is inactivity, and he is usually more active in his games.

[Csareo]

One of you ass kissers is scum.

That awkward moment when you can't spell

Bloc is the correct spelling. Voting bloc, economic bloc, IE, ect.
Definition: a group of persons, businesses, etc., united for a particular purpose.
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bloc

[Csareo]

lol he was saying you spelled awkward wrong

Spoiler:

[Csareo]

Okay, moving on. I think you are right about how casual expresso is.
There is an evident pattern of making a joke, then agreeing with the person above.
Scum use these half ass agreements. A scummy player is constantly trying to be on everyone's good side.

I strongly feel expresso is trying to wind his way into a town bloc, although I haven't concluded with anything substantial.

[Csareo]

We have 12 days, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.
If you don't scum hunt, then you're either a liability or scum, so please do so in the following days.
Otherwise I will be forced to policy lynch.

Anyways, get better mate

[Csareo]

Clusk only has two posts. Can he be prodded?

[Csareo]

VOTE: ZZZX

Finding the shittiest justification for a vote and run with it like no one would notice?
Not my cup of tea.

[Csareo]

ZZZX, please post all your thoughts thus far.
These one post hit and runs wont fly with me.

[Csareo]

Well..................................... anyone have something to say?
Seeing the bote history, there appears to be a lot of hopping going around.
Quite a bit of lurking as well.

[Csareo]

*vote.
Come on guys. It has been almost 18 hours without a post.

[Csareo]

I want to start a pressure wagon on one of the two.
There isn't enough information on ZZZx, which in itself is a scum tell.
If enough people are in, I would like to put the pressure on Nakedjogger.

Expresso, can you give a reads list?

[Csareo]

You have way to many scum reads for my tastes.

[Csareo]

Scum reads should be definite. If you have 4 reads already, then you are making your scum reads hold less merit.
I think it is illogical to have any scum reads this early in the game. I have some scum tells under a few players book, but I'm very cautious about labelling people scum or town this early on.
Decisions need to be thought out and careful.

[Csareo]

Quick theory question. Since lynching the godfather eliminates the goon, and town will eventually have to lynch the godfather (who brings the goon down with him), I would say goon reads shouldn't be lynched.
It seems like that would just be a fools errand.

It is a mafia phenomenon. His scum meta is to be inactive.

[Csareo]

I am leaning towards a nakedjogger lynch today, and maybe expresso.
I'm now wholly convinced that either is scum.

[Csareo]

And how exactly are you gonna separate your scumreads into Godfather and Goon categories? Do you think the Godfather will be more careful in his play?

It is quite easy. The goon will be extra defensive for his godfather

[Csareo]

Quick theory question. Since lynching the godfather eliminates the goon, and town will eventually have to lynch the godfather (who brings the goon down with him), I would say goon reads shouldn't be lynched.
It seems like that would just be a fools errand.

It is a mafia phenomenon. His scum meta is to be inactive.

What is his Town meta?

I think he was scum in all the games I watched him play.
His town meta is unbeknownst, but I have a HUGE scum vibe.
He'll talk more strategy than scum hunting, and will lurk a lot.

[Csareo]

Quick theory question. Since lynching the godfather eliminates the goon, and town will eventually have to lynch the godfather (who brings the goon down with him), I would say goon reads shouldn't be lynched.
It seems like that would just be a fools errand.

It is a mafia phenomenon. His scum meta is to be inactive.

What is his Town meta?

I think he was scum in all the games I watched him play.
His town meta is unbeknownst, but I have a HUGE scum vibe.
He'll talk more strategy than scum hunting, and will lurk a lot.

How do you know he isn't always like that?

I'm fine with him dying. If he winds up doing that he probably will get shot eventually.

Because he said so himself in one of his ISO.
Unfortunately, I can't find the same post. It specifically said "My scum meta is inactivity".

[Csareo]

Okay, I can't find the post, and now I feel stupid that I said it.
I swear he did though. I've seen him play on another site.

None the less, my read on bullish is purely out of meta.

[Csareo]

1519, murder in the baracks.
Bullish was scum and aphix was town.

[Csareo]

I haven't been replaced? 5 days?
Okay, this is great. Hopefully I can catch up and all by the end of the night.

[Csareo]

Oh, I have been replaced.
Goodbye, I wont post here again

[Csareo]

I won, sweet. The game was dominated by Dr. Pants.
The key to winning, like milk eek displayed, was to be town read by Dr. Pants and follow his wagons.

[Csareo]

I have to confess that I forgot who replaced Csareo at one point, and I've made a few replies to Eek not actually remembering he was my godfather... I think those were the ones that you said I was his scumbuddy for, too

Hold up, you were the godfather.
Read your role PM.

[Csareo]

"The members of this team are [Csareo], the godfather with [Espressojet] the goon. "

Man, I read that wrong, because the whole time I was playing I thought ExpressoJet was the godfather. I would of hardbussed him otherwise.