Micro 360: A Given Value of Normal (Game Over)
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fontisian
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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In post 12, HighShroomish wrote:On a more serious note let's NOT put someon to L-2 on page 1 mkay?
VOTE: FONTISIAN
Also, Grib is my bro. Step off.
Bitch please.
Unvote
Vote Grib
Entertain me, Grib.
Hey phokdapolees, what do you think of Shroomish?
Desperado can be town for toDay.-
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fontisian Goon
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Grib: Why did you self vote?
In post 20, phokdapolees wrote:
Once again, why is this bad? RVS wagons are how the game gets started.In post 14, HighShroomish wrote:Because it's one vote away from L-1.
Also, VOTE: Grib
Why are you voting for Grib?
Let's see, I sort of like Grib depending on his response. I want more from Oddball, but they're pinging town. Eek's probably town. Shroomish is having mood whiplash and it's scummy as fuck, but I doubt he's scum with Wolfy. phokdapolees needs to answer my fucking question. Desperado's town unless Wolfy is scum. And Wolfy needs to die.
Unvote
Vote Wolfy-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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Wolfy's running with false assumptions that likely come from a scum mindset. He claims to believe that there must be one scum on his wagon, even though that specific form of vote analysis doesn't apply to a quick RVS wagon. I've actually found that the people on the end of a large RVS wagon are more likely to be town, because they are reaction fishing and don't care about being scumread for their actions. There's also the fact that he cleared the first two people on his wagon, but their votes most likely being random shouldn't make them better than neutral in his mind.
Then there's his language. "It won't be all town on the wagon" is far too strong language for the situation, which implies that he was overcompensating. "So you're all town and you all voted me because of my scumtell in post 4," creates a false dichotomy, where there is either scum on his wagon or he was heavily scum read. In reality there are more likely options of reaction baiting and general trolling behavior. It also reeks of a scum irritated at being caught for the wrong reasons.
Finally, he shouldn't be making a "random" choice between me and Desperado. If he was actually trying to find scum, he would have tried to analyze our different responses to his wagon and asking questions. But he's not, because he's not actually trying to find scum.-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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In post 49, Grib wrote:In post 45, FunSizedOddball wrote:Okay I can see where you're coming from now. Looking back on the posts he already has 5 votes.
He only has four. He would have three, if fontisian had bothered to bold her unvote.
fake edit:
Now he has three.
Too much effort.
Despardo: Yeah, I don't think you are. Or you have balls of steel.
Shroomish went back and forth between lightheated and scumhunting too easily. Feels fabricated.-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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In post 65, insanity018 wrote:Why is Desperado either town or scum with Wolfy?
He was the fourth, provocative slot on an RVS wagon. That's only likely to come from 1.town, 2. an experienced, cocky and gambity scum or 3.a nervous scum bussing a scummate. His subsequent response to me was carefree enough that the 3rd option probably isn't the case.
In post 65, insanity018 wrote:Why are you obsessed with asking phokdapolees (and him in particular) about his read on Schroomish?
I prefer to nip the not answer questions bullshit at the bud.
How is post 44 reaching?
In post 68, HighShroomish wrote:Font, Wolfy is actually probably correct about having at least one scum on this wagon. (Before we blow up the thread segueing over this lets agree to disagree, as it's perfectly logical to think both.)
I'm open to discussion on a lot of things, but in this case you are simply wrong. In ever game I have been in with a very fast RVS wagon, the people on the end of the wagon have been town. Always. I believe this is because the people on the end do not care about how they are perceived.
And seriously? Of course I knew Wolfy was being sarcastic. That doesn't change the fact that he tried to say that either 1.Someone who voted for him is scum or 2.He scumslipped in his first post. It's an incredibly blatant strawman.
It's interesting that you attack me for not scumhunting while defending Wolfy's lack of scumhunting.-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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The garcia rule actually comes from this post: http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/ind ... ost-111565-
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fontisian Goon
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Walk me through this, Wolfy.
You believe there was one scum on your wagon. You also believe that the first two votes were not alignment indicative. Therefore, the one scum must be between the last two votes.
I don't see the connection. What if one of the first two voting you was scum (if you're town and assuming any given player has a one in four chance of being scum, then there's 5/16 chance of that being the case)? Would that clear Desperado and me or not? And if it does, then why have you been ignoring that possibility?-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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Grib: Why is Wolfy town?
In post 85, HighShroomish wrote:In post 83, fontisian wrote:But that's inconsistent with you saying there's a fifty-fifty chance of me and Desperado being scum. Are you going to answer my questions?
misREP.
He saidbetweenyou and desperado it was 50/50.
Grib, vote font with me.
Are you stupid, incapable of reading or just scum?
I'm getting the awful feeling that none of you understand basic probability and proper vote analysis.-
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fontisian Goon
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Grib: I don't need to understand why I'm town. I've got a role pm for that. (You failed the test, by the way, but had a separate town tell that balances it out.) I'm asking for your reasoning here, because you've played with Wolfy before and I haven't.
Shroomish: Basic math man. If there's a 25% that each of Eek and Insanity is scum, then there's a 56.25% chance that neither are scum. If Wolfy believes that in that world, one of the remaining people on his wagon has to be scum and it is equally likely to be me or Desperado, then he should believe there's a 28.125% chance of one of us individually being scum. You might recognize that as almost the exact same odds of anyone being scum. Wolfy's position makes no sense, even if we except "one scum on the wagon" as a valid premise (which it's not).-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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In post 99, HighShroomish wrote:HOLY FUCK PEOPLE CAN WE PLAY NICE INSTEAD OF THROWING INSULTS AROUND.
And please MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE FUCKING RIGHT BEFORE POSTING.
You know what genuinely random means? It means that he thinks they were fucking random. Just because they are random in no way means they(you) are town.
Exactly.
And yet, in order for Wolfy to think that scum is between me and Desperado, he has to assume that Insanity and Eek are town. That my point.
Grib: Alright, I'll wait until you get off work. If you want to point to a specific post or game in the meantime for me to focus on, I'd appreciate it.-
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fontisian Goon
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:/
Seriously, why can't you make this connection?
1. Wolfy says that Insanity and Eek's votes are not indicative of alignment. That's fine, and I actually agree with it.
2. Wolfy says there is one scum on his wagon. This is most likely a false assumption, but I could see it coming from some with a poor understanding of vote count analysis.
That's all well and good.
3. Wolfy says scum is likely between me and Desperado and votes accordingly. This is bad because:
a)He didn't bother to figure out which of us is scum by asking questions or applying pressure. He just dropped a vote and left it there.
b)It ignores that Insanity or Eek could be scum, despite the fact that he said their votes could be alignment indicative. If Insanity or Eek are scum, then the rest of the people on
the wagon become much less likely to be scum (something that he hasn't recognized). Basically, by calling me or Desperado scum, he has declared that Insanity and Eek are not scum-
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fontisian Goon
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:/
Seriously, why can't you make this connection?
1. Wolfy says that Insanity and Eek's votes are not indicative of alignment. That's fine, and I actually agree with it.
2. Wolfy says there is one scum on his wagon. This is most likely a false assumption, but I could see it coming from some with a poor understanding of vote count analysis.
That's all well and good.
3. Wolfy says scum is likely between me and Desperado and votes accordingly. This is bad because:
a)He didn't bother to figure out which of us is scum by asking questions or applying pressure. He just dropped a vote and left it there.
b)It ignores that Insanity or Eek could be scum, despite the fact that he said their votes could be alignment indicative. If Insanity or Eek are scum, then the rest of the people on
the wagon become much less likely to be scum (something that he hasn't recognized). Basically, by calling me or Desperado scum, he has declared that Insanity and Eek are not scum-
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fontisian Goon
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And now I'm wondering if my computer is having a meltdown.
The rest of the post is:
Basically, by calling me or Desperado scum, he has declared that Insanity and Eek are not scum, despite having no reason to do so.
c) By only acting as if Insanity or Eek are town and not actually calling them town, he leaves open a future mislynch on them when I flip town.-
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fontisian Goon
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In post 80, fontisian wrote:What if one of the first two voting you was scum (if you're town and assuming any given player has a one in four chance of being scum, then there's 5/16 chance of that being the case?)? Would that clear Desperado and me or not? And if it does, then why have you been ignoring that possibility?
For the third time, Wolfy, answer the fucking question.
Grib: Are you fucking with me?
1. What part of the argument are you not following? Wolfy's theory dismisses the possibility of Insanity and Eek being scum while he says that they could easily be scum. That's the issue.
2. I want to know why you are town reading Wolfy so I can use it to evaluate my read of him. The same thing obviously doesn' t apply for your read of me because I already know my own alignment.
3. You still haven't provided those reasons. Get on that.
4. You implied that you have a meta read on Wolfy, which means you could have given me some specific posts from this game and another game to compare.-
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fontisian Goon
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In post 114, Wolfy wrote:In post 111, fontisian wrote:In post 80, fontisian wrote:What if one of the first two voting you was scum (if you're town and assuming any given player has a one in four chance of being scum, then there's 5/16 chance of that being the case?)? Would that clear Desperado and me or not? And if it does, then why have you been ignoring that possibility?
For the third time, Wolfy, answer the fucking question.
Nah, don't feel like it - not when you ask like that
I asked nicely twice. You don't get a third time.
But that's cool. If you're not going to bother to defend yourself when asked, then I'm not going to bother giving you the benefit of the doubt. Choo choo.-
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fontisian Goon
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In post 142, insanity018 wrote:In post 71, fontisian wrote:
In post 65, insanity018 wrote:Why are you obsessed with asking phokdapolees (and him in particular) about his read on Schroomish?
I prefer to nip the not answer questions bullshit at the bud.
How is post 44 reaching?
Well, let's see. Before you first asked phok that question (17), you had not had any significant interactions with Shroomish. Nor had you expressed any thoughts about where you stood about him. Phok also had limited interactions with Shroomish, having asked him only one question. So basically, why did you keep insisting that phok needs to answer your question so urgently that you will otherwise 'shove a lynch down his throat'?
Welp. Look at this word vomit. Essentially: I feel that you're coming off as a lot of false aggression/tunnelling.
I can't decide if you're trying to distance from phok more or from Shroomish.
Because when someone asks you a question, you answer it. Even you just give a crappy answer, it's better than nothing. Phok felt like the kind of player that reacts better to a heavy touch and coasts without it, so I applied that heavy touch. The question itself really wasn't important, except as a tool to get him talking and interacting.
On that note, I use a lot of aggression because it's useful. It sparks controversy, pushes people to react to me, and can freak the people I'm tunneling out enough that they do something alignment indicative.
Distancing in that manner is a useless way of killing off teammates without getting any towncred. There are better ways to look unaligned with someone.
In post 142, insanity018 wrote:[44 reeks of misrepresentation. So does your entire push onto Wolfy. More false aggression/tunnelling. I also find your dwelling on the mathematical probability of what Wolfy is saying to be more of an attempt to appear helpful by 'scum hunting' when really not being very relevant at all.
1. 44 isn't misrepresentative. It is actually an entirely representative assessment of all of the ways Wolfy's reaction to the wagon on him was indicative of scum. His continued reactions (still not scumhunting, ignoring awkward questions for bullshit reasons, only popping in to make snide remarks about how he's town, unvoting me without a reason and then voting phok, who wasn't on that wagon, again without a reason) are further reasons to kill him.
Actually, Wolfy, care to explain why you're not voting for me and what about phok makes you think he's scum?
2.The probability thing isn't even the point? I only brought it open because no matter how many different ways I make this argument, it doesn't seem to penetrate any skulls. The point is if you or Eek are scum (which Wolfy said was just as likely as anything else), then Desperado and I become much likely to be scum (by Wolfy's own reasoning that there is exactly one scum on that wagon.) I've asked Wolfy multiple times what he thinks about that and why his earlier attempt at analysis failed to take it into account, and he dropped a bullshit excuse about my tone.
Oh, and your suspicion of Oddball is bad and you should feel bad.-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian
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fontisian Goon
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In post 156, Wolfy wrote:In post 140, phokdapolees wrote:
As you can see, she voted for grib not to take her vote off you, but in response to shroom's buddying, rendering your argument false.In post 17, fontisian wrote:In post 12, HighShroomish wrote:On a more serious note let's NOT put someon to L-2 on page 1 mkay?
VOTE: FONTISIAN
Also, Grib is my bro. Step off.
Bitch please.
Unvote
Vote Grib
I didn't and don't read it like that.
I think the vote came off me because of "let's NOT put someon to L-2 on page 1"
You may be right as to why the vote went on Grib afterwards though.
Except it was at L-1, not L-2. I've got no problems with L-2. But with my history of players of this site accidentally (and intentionally) hammering at the beginning of the Day, I decided not to push my luck by keeping the wagon in hammer range.
Your scumreading me for that is bad for two reasons:
1. I was the third on the wagon, meaning for a hammer, two people would have to vote after me. If I were scum, both of these people would likely be town. Mislynching both of them would then be a perfect scum victory. So, if I was scum, I would really have no reason to back off.
2.I didn't make a big deal of it. I could have tried for town cred by stating that I was trying to avoid a quick lynch. But I didn't, because I don't actually need any towncred.-
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fontisian Goon
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In post 161, HighShroomish wrote:So... um... I like the discussion!
I think Eek is scum because of the same reason as Grib, and I think font is scum because of reasons already stated, and I don't think that there are more than two scum in this game. That's where I got that from.
Of course after like two days of no body posting I get ninjad.
And you also agree that Eek and I are unlikely to be scum together, which means you must be wrong somewhere. Why aren't you trying to figure that out?
Oddball: What about Wolfy makes you think he's desperate to get people off of him?-
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fontisian Goon
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In post 143, insanity018 wrote:Pedit: High Shroomish, do you believe that both scum would be pushing strongly on the same townie?
In post 144, HighShroomish wrote:@insanity I guess not...
In post 170, HighShroomish wrote:In post 166, fontisian wrote:In post 161, HighShroomish wrote:So... um... I like the discussion!
I think Eek is scum because of the same reason as Grib, and I think font is scum because of reasons already stated, and I don't think that there are more than two scum in this game. That's where I got that from.
Of course after like two days of no body posting I get ninjad.
And you also agree that Eek and I are unlikely to be scum together, which means you must be wrong somewhere. Why aren't you trying to figure that out?
Oddball: What about Wolfy makes you think he's desperate to get people off of him?
Where did you ever get that I didn't think you and Eek weren't scum together? I think you're both scum. Do I have to supply a connection?
One of these things is not like the other~
Unvote
Vote HighShroomish
In post 168, insanity018 wrote:Oh, and your suspicion of Oddball is bad and you should feel bad.
Why is Oddball spectacularly town?
I was going to defend them based on newb tells, and some basic play advice on dealing with new players but post 163 was bad, so meh. Do what you want.
I find it odd that people are pushing Wolfy for the "randomly vote one that's left" thing, when the playstyle consistency while under fire actually reflects well on him.-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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In post 176, FunSizedOddball wrote:I was (am) trying to find his reasoning for who he is assuming scum and his wording made it come off as though he was saying 'these people defended me so one of them must be scum' at least that is how it came across to me while reading it.
That's exactly what he was doing.
Could you give me three scum reads in order of scumminess?-
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fontisian Goon
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Oddball:
[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p6035559]Could you give me three scum reads in order of scumminess?[/quote]-
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fontisian
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fontisian Goon
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Oddball: Three scum reads in order of scumminess please. (Don't stress over it to much.)
Shroomish: Why did you ignore the inconsistency I pointed out in your statements?
Grib: Hurtful. Guess I'll just have to practice some more with the blowgun to make myself feel better.
Oddball might be scum. We'll see.-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian
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In post 205, My Milked Eek wrote:The feel of his posts.
Do you really want me to explain a gut read?
Yes.-
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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fontisian Goon
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1. You need to explain why you changed your mind. We already get that you did. 2.That's not a case. Cases are made to convince people. That will convince no one because it is both wrong and restricted to my early. Are you trying to get out of a lynch by pretending to be an idiot or have you just resigned yourself to being lynched?-
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fontisian Goon
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