Micro 205: Everybody's Being Watched Round 2 (Game Over)

[Baezu]

Hi All!

[Baezu]

VOTE: Thegarantula

Adventure time icon is awesome! But where's Jake?!

[Baezu]

/confirm

(not sure if I still need to do this, but just in case...)

[Baezu]

UNVOTE: TheGar

I don't really have many reads so far in this game but here's what I do have so far:

TheGar - leaning town. He's been involved, seemed genuinely concerned for putting someone at L-1. Pretty town
Egg - null. He's had some posts that were good, others that were questionable - I've been flip-flopping on him
Hydra - null, leaning scum - not liking the whole subversive and negative way it started the game. Saying they don't want to reveal themselves and making it the subject of discussion is not useful for town. In fact, it's anti-town. I'll have to solidify as the game goes on.

Everyone else hasn't posted much content so I have no reads on them yet.

[Baezu]

So far, Egg seems town to me.
SH null leaning town
dart town
beli null
mala town

Everyone else, not enough info. Please let me know if you'd like me to elaborate on anything.

[Baezu]

@Beli - lol. Yeah I noticed that too after I posted them. :p Thanks for catching that!

[Baezu]

New reads:

Beli - leaning town
telo-leaning town
hydra - leaning town
xeg's slot - leaning scum
mala - null
egg - town
dart -town
thegar - null leaning scum

[Baezu]

I'm not really sure if the Telo vote makes sense coming from Dart

This was a little suspect. Didn't really understand why you have expectations on the Dart slot. Dunno, it seems like you've become a little less sure of things. Not really a scum tell, but I just feel like maybe you're getting bored/tired of this game? Which can be scummy...

[Baezu]

This was a little suspect. Didn't really understand why you have expectations on the Dart slot. Dunno, it seems like you've become a little less sure of things. Not really a scum tell, but I just feel like maybe you're getting bored/tired of this game? Which can be scummy...

I disagree. For myself anyway; when I'm mafia I know what's going on so I'm involved in the game. When I'm town I'm usually pretty clueless. It takes me longer to get into it because I don't know what to say or do plus I know that someone is lying to me so I'm invested in finding out who that is. When I'm the one that's lying I don't have to waste energy trying to figure out who it is.

That's a good point. Ok. Mala town (for now )

[Baezu]

@Baezu's read list: I went from null to leaning scum without having posted? What makes you think I am scum?

Also, what exactly is the case on Xeg? I didn't really understand and still don't.

VOTE: Telo
You've said you're town, but you haven't been doing anything for town. What gives?

P.S.: M is cool.

I guess I'm not feeling like you're avidly hunting scum. My read on you changed precisely because you haven't been posting. I'd really love to hear from you not just when people pose questions to you. Do you have any reads?

[Baezu]

VOTE: Fuduzn

Still think slot is scum and Fuduzn hasn't changed that opinion

Fos Telo

For making assumptions on mafia motivations

[Baezu]

Sorry guys. Had a big birthday weekend and was hung over for most of it. But I'm back now! Catching up

[Baezu]

I've had the team as Baezu and Dart ever since post 136.

Dart claims it's Baezu or Gar but takes Baezu off of L-1 in favor of voting Fu. Why is that? Because they're buddies.

Anything else you want to jump on, Telo?

Dart is so obvtown and your posts have been mostly just tunneling on someone. It seems to me that you really just want someone, anyone lynched. This is not just my opinion. Many others have expressed that dart seems town. You are looking more and more scummy the more you post. I may be changing my vote if this keeps up...

[Baezu]

Sorry I haven't been posting more - the last week has been hellish. Dart - I tend to agree with you on Beli. He seems to be somewhat defensive in his posts. He comes in, makes an accusation and disappears. I'd be willing to vote him tomorrow but for now I still feel Fud is scummier. Telo I'm on the fence about. Everyone else is townie for me atm.

[Baezu]

I find it interesting that you have such an issue with my reads changing. You've posted more content and it seems town to me. I'm on my phone now but will quote posts once I get on my computer.

Egg why do you think Mala is scum?

[Baezu]

I find it interesting that you have such an issue with my reads changing. You've posted more content and it seems town to me. I'm on my phone now but will quote posts once I get on my computer.

Egg why do you think Mala is scum?

...

I posted barely anything since your last read list. In fact I admit I prod dodged most of it. I don't see that as a reason to town read me.

So you think your play has been scummy and you're pointing it out? nice WIFOM.

[Baezu]

Fuck. I've reread and egg is right - we are lynching town today:

UNVOTE: Fuduzn

Bela would be the only person I would lynch besides Baezu or Egg, but I really want to lynch one of those two.

Hydra, you either know you are wrong or scum.

I agree with you on the hydra. And it really rubbed me the wrong way the way Beli was pushing me and my lynch - didn't feel town at all. I'd be down for a Beli lynch today. It feels more correct.

VOTE: Belisarius

[Baezu]

Because I don't see a case on Bae aside from not contributing. Fudu's entire catchup was about how Bel and I are scum and he votes Bae at the very end for not contributing. Telo votes Bae for FoSing Telo. (By the way Telo, I don't see where you said Dart was a part of that team before...) Bel just seems to vote because it's the cool thing to do. Says he promised himself he'd vote someone and ends up being the third vote on the wagon. Then there's Mala's little comment about Bae's FoS and even though she didn't vote him, that's more pressure towards him that just seems off.

So basically the wagon is shit because there is no real case behind it and i'd be shocked if scum weren't using the hate to push a mislynch on him.

The wagon might look less shit if you were to, you know,

read

.

I very clearly stated why I'm voting Baezu; her reads on me and mala abruptly shifted in a very short period of time

for no reason

. No actual content had been posted between those reads lists. That kind of cognitive dissonance is not town.

This is an incredibly weak argument for why he's voting me scum.

Also, his case for hydra town is weak:

Bel, can you elaborate on why the hydra looks town?

Sure.

33 Explains actions logically with an explanation that makes sense from a town perspective
68 I'm seeing genuine frustration with regards to the "guess the heads" derail
92 Doesn't let the Beetlejuice tell pass, even though the rest of us missed it
152 Townhunting. Scum don't need to do this.
246 Uneasiness with the speed of the Baezu wagon

I think he may be partners with the hydra.

Yup I'd be happy with this lynch today.

[Baezu]

Are you saying you're not town?

[Baezu]

I find it interesting that you have such an issue with my reads changing. You've posted more content and it seems town to me. I'm on my phone now but will quote posts once I get on my computer.

Egg why do you think Mala is scum?

...

I posted barely anything since your last read list. In fact I admit I prod dodged most of it. I don't see that as a reason to town read me.

So you think your play has been scummy and you're pointing it out? nice WIFOM.

Nice misrep.

No I don't see anything I have done as something that should be giving me a town read. I feel like you are pulling all these reads out of thin air and they are paper thin

I guess I just don't understand what Mala is getting at.

hydra - could you please restate your case on Fud? I don't see him as scum.

Also, anyone else think Beli is scum?

[Baezu]

IT WILL BE EXTREMELY BAD FOR TOWN IF I AM LYNCHED

TOWN DOES NOT WANT ME TO CLAIM

IT WILL ONLY BENEFIT SCUM IF I CLAIM

UNVOTE NOW

I AM NOT SCUM

[Baezu]

Sorry I play like a moron and everyone thinks I'm scum but I swear on my two children that I am an important town. I would be up for lynching ANYONE else today because at least then town will have a chance to lynch scum. Please someone take me off of L-1 so that scum can't hammer. I beg you!!!

[Baezu]

ty SH. That unvote may save you in the future.

I honestly think my conversation with Mala makes her seem more scummy. I'm willing to move my vote to her or telo.

[Baezu]

I'm really sorry, guys - I'm the worst town ever this game. I just have NO CLUE who's who and what's really going on. That's why I'm being wishy-washy. Again, Beli I feel in my gut is scum but everyone else except for the hydra I pretty much feel is being townie. When I said I'd vote for anyone, I meant anyone I thought was scum - which I don't feel Fud is. I do find it scummy that the hydra is so intent on pushing that lynch, though. Pretty much this whole game the hydra has been garnering attention. First by refusing to reveal the heads and later by dominating conversation with its tunnelvision. Neither of these seem very town to me. Since I've flip-flopped on everyone, including Beli, I guess the only solid vote I can make is this one:

VOTE: ShinyH

Again, I apologize for being the worst town ever. I'm still learning this game and its players and I promise that I'm just doing my best with my given role.

[Baezu]

I'm not comfortable with a vote for Telo or Fud. Grrr.

Could we get a Joh wagon going?

I'd really like some useful info from a flip but I really don't want to lynch town.

I really don't like the say SH was trying to use my words against me to pressure me into sheeping them.

C'mon, guys, jump on the SH wagon. You've only got a few more hours...

[Baezu]

Who wants to lynch scum?

I do, I do!

All aboard the SH wagon - last call for towncred!!!

[Baezu]

Grrr. I don't want to lynch a townie d1 but it's preferable to a NL...

VOTE: Telo

Please give us reads/thoughts of scum before you go.

[Baezu]

Oh shit I thought that was L-1!

[Baezu]

Fuck. I didn't see egg's vote- different tags. Sorry.

[Baezu]

Plz give us reads?

[Baezu]

Way to go doc!!!

But wait...

UNVOTE: Fudz
VOTE: Shiny Hydreigon

Something's up, there and methinks it's anti-town. My Fudz vote I've explained, and he seems most obvious. However SH has seemed perfectly ok with derailing the game and following wagons/popular opinion and I think they're scum.

I've been getting this feeling from SH for most of the game:

._.

Telo pushing a PL, and OMGUS'ing while really not commenting on the game

interesting

Fu,

we did give a reason to why you're scum

and so far, your response is "I've been doing all these things right, and you guys don't have any solid evidence that I'm scum"

you know what that sounds like to me?

caught scum who feels like they are being suspected for allllllll the wrong reasons

you need to die, you were not like this at all in polygamist
~L

Really? I read through your ISO and I didn't see any reason for a fud vote. Could you please point me to the post where you explained why fud is scum? Thanks.
Also, you have NOT been fud all game - your vote history is: egg, xeg, fud, bae, fud, telo, fud

[Baezu]

Could you please point me to the post where you explained why fud is scum? Thanks.

You still haven't answered my question!!!

[Baezu]

What makes you so sure it was a doc and not a scum no-kill out of fear of the watcher?

It certainly could be a no kill but in the mafia games I've been in a no kill is not very common.

[Baezu]

Also I targetted hydra in attempt to not target the same person scum kill if they kill

What do you mean by this?

[Baezu]

3) And Baezu, don't give us that bullshit when you'd been townreading us most of D1.

Opinions can change.

As Egg said, in this setup it would make sense for scum to no-kill.

Could someone please explain this to me. I'm not familiar with this setup. Why would a no kill make sense?

Uh, Beli.. I have caught people off the 'forgetting' about votes and they were scum. It's not a hard 100% scum tell, but it's pretty accurate in some cases.

Also, can you please clarify this statement. Are you saying Beli is scum?

[Baezu]

Ty mala!

[Baezu]

So I guess we're assuming the global watcher used their role on d1. I have not played this setup before so I'll go with what those with more experience are saying. I visited egg last night so we have:

Dart visited malakittens
egg visited hydra
I visited egg

[Baezu]

. I think we should hypoclaim our targets last night.

This just hit me. How is this useful for town? This will give more information to scum who know whether they nkd or not. Also if they did try to nk they will narrow down the doc possibilities based on who visited their kill.

Just mentioning this earns a scum slot in my book.

VOTE: egg

[Baezu]

watcher actually used the ability he can confirmed who's lying by targets instead of outing

This would assume that 1.watcher actually used power 2.someone would have a reason to lie. If I were maf I'd just say who I visited. Why lie?

[Baezu]

Also if the watcher used their ability they are now essentially vt so there's no real disadvantage to outing

[Baezu]

a claim will endanger the Doctor but also clue them in to potential scum and absolutely help the Watcher.

A claim will only endanger the doctor. If scum tried to kill someone night 1 but here was a doc save, maf would narrow down who the doc is. The doc would have no info regarding the maf because they would just nk him the following night and no one would have any info on who did it. How would the doc be clued in, in your mind?

[Baezu]

i agree we should finish the claiming now that we started it, we should never have started it though.

Why didn't you voice this opinion before, instead of just revealing who you targetted?

[Baezu]

I'm starting to feel less and less sure about dart town. especially after that comment about deleting an anti-town post...

[Baezu]

Ya peeps, time to post. Especially the non voters!

[Baezu]

*sigh*

[Baezu]

Do you have anything you want to say in response to what I said about you, Baezu? An explanation for your behavior?

Why Bel, Egg? He has been the least scrutinized/attention-grabbing player, which is suspicious but not enough on its own...

I can understand if we want to tread softly with Baezu and maybe try and get her scumbuddy, first, but my concern is her noncomittal claim saved her last round and it looks like it will again today. One more day of this and she's home free. Rather than mount a convincing defense she jumped straight to "but I have a power role maybe possibly" and that seems a wiser move for scum than it does for town. Nobody can counter claim because she didn't specify her role. And when everything else she does seems scummy (seriously, ISO her and look at her voting patterns/reads/talk) I'm disinclined to just trust that unvoting her might save our lives?? That said, if she's our Watcher we REALLY don't want her to claim so you can why I would be concerned with pressing her too hard. But she might be counting on our trepidation, so....

My phantom post that has everyone up in arms was basically just going over night scenarios. A Doctor can't be killed unless targeted by both Mafia, assuming the Doctor saves themself. They could, however, be rendered obsolete by the roleblocker. This wouldn't be so bad if the Watcher saw what was going on, but that presumes the Watcher hasn't already watched. And so on. It was a bunch of if-thens and possible scenarios. Basically by the end of it I had decided claiming for either of our Power Roles would be bad, obviously, but it might not be the end of the world if we had a claim from our Doctor. But it would still suck. So.

Was all of that anti-town? IDK. But I've realized we're running short on time and we have a tendency to get distracted with nitty-gritty stuff like this (at least I do) and I thought it might be better to focus on reads and scumhunting rather than go over hypotheticals.

What behavior would you like an explanation for?

I AM NOT COMING OUT WITH MY ROLE UNLESS YOU GET ME TO L-1.

Seriously, how is this post not anti-town? You are TRYING to out the power roles - why don't you just hand the game over to mafia? Dart, if you are town you need to stop tunneling me. I AM TOWN. I swear to you. This is my town game. I know it sucks, I'm a fucking useless player. Hell, I'd vote myself if it didn't explicitly go against my wincon. Take a look at my other games. I promise you you will realize this is baezu-town.

Help me find the scum if you want town to have a chance. Who should I look closer at?

[Baezu]

I've been thinking beli has been scum all game. I'm glad people are finally starting to see it.

VOTE: Belisarius

[Baezu]

i also just noticed that beli was the first one to bring up the possibility of a no-kill.
given that he was not in the first run, it rubs me the wrong way that he thought of it so easily.
maybe he thought of it because he's actually the scum who no-killed? hm?

R~

Or maybe I, y'know,

read the fucking rules?

Or read or even skimmed skimmed the game linked to in the setup's wiki page?

Mafiascum.net -- where not only is not bothering to be aware of what kind of game you're playing is a towntell for some ridiculous fucking reason, but doing your homework is actually a scumtell.

How much longer can it possibly be before the television debut of "Ow, My Balls?"

Joh, you seem to be assuming no NK over successful doc. You don't seem to realize you are making this assumtion.

For the purposes of catching scum, it

doesn't matter

which it was.

Insulting us as AtE is not a great way to get us on your side

[Baezu]

[Baezu]

I think I must have pissed off one of the heads on another game.

Hydra, vote egg with me and lets be friends.

Why are you doing this?

you know me well enough that I won't be swayed by this kinda stuff, especially when it comes to people I'm preeetttty sure is scum and my partners are less likely to swayed by this kind of buddying.

You also think that we are scum, so why are you asking us to be your friend this game?

(and, considering I slipped this game, you should know who I am)


~L

You know what? I'll bite. I'll vote fud with you. You seem to be really convinced that he's scum this game so I'll take your experience with him as good enough for me. Hey guys, let's vote fud today and if he flips town we can get SH tomorrow.

Does that work in terms of LYLO/MYLO? I'm really bad at calculating those things so please point out to me if a mislynch today will result in LYLO/MYLO tomorrow. Otherwise, I see no problems with it.

VOTE: Fuduzn

[Baezu]

Hey guys, let's vote fud today and if he flips town we can get SH tomorrow.

...
i really want to think that this is just part of baezu's ridiculously anti-town playstyle, otherwise id be calling this comment obvscum.

R~

Agreed, especially I really wouldn't call hydra at the top of my scum list, despite what has transpired.

Are you really trying to line up mislynches bae?

no I'm just that confused about this game!!!!

Will dart or someone else that's town please help me?

[Baezu]

I don't know, Baezu. I feel like my town game has not been strong, in the sense that I haven't been eliciting great reactions from people/feeling any strong hunches about people. But at least I'm trying my best (however poor that may be) to help town win.

You, however your "not strong" town game has been staunchly anti-town. You claimed early, quicklynched Telo...

It's already scummy that you survived the night after claiming,

and your "hint" in the morning that we had the Doctor to thank for the no-kill was far from subtle. What are you playing at? What's your goal? You say that this is your town game, but I looked very briefly at some of your other games and in your other games you seem much more aggressive/interested in others and seem more engaged/less plead-y.

That said I'm not ready to lynch you. Or Fudz, however scummy he may be.

I am concerned about Shiny, however. From the start they've been a distraction, and they don't seem to care. The fact that they can blame others for pestering them has worked, so far, as an excuse...

But looking back, when Telo was quicklynched: rather than let Telo answer my question about reads or even just say some final words, Shiny continues to engage her in anti-town banter. He's soooo sure she's scum that he's taunting her even as we tighten the noose.

That's scum-certainty, right there. Gloating, tunneling. And now with Fudz. It reeks of scum realizing they can get away with, basically, whatever they like. Two nights more to a win, after all.

We can lynch you tomorrow, Baezu. Or Egg or Mala or Fudz or whoever we decide is scum. Hopefully we decide correctly.

But today the scummiest of them all, despite a very good attempt at putting on a hunter's appearance...is Shiny Hydreigon, the three-headed hydra.

VOTE: Shiny Hydreigon

I just don't see how it could be anyone else.

I agree with you. I should not have survived the nightkill. I think the only reason they kept me alive is because I had such a poor d1 performance that scum was probably sure town would lynch me today. The only person who has a vote on me today is johhog but others have been fomenting my demise as well. I would look for scum in all of the people who have been pushing on me. I guarantee that mafia won't let me live much longer. In fact, they don't want you to know my flip bc that would give town a lot of info - better to keep me alive and continue the WIFOM.

Anyway, since I trust dart, I will sheep him and keep my vote there for the rest of the day. Sorry I'm not a better town player - every game I play I learn more and more and maybe one day I will be able to avoid getting lynched in all my town games.

VOTE: ShinyHydreigon

[Baezu]

VOTE: Baezu

The hydra wagon is terrible, Bae is scum

or the fakest player I have ever played with.

And lately I have been kinda terrible in a town role. If I am scum than yall mofuggers best watch out, but as town I am slippin.

Ouch. That hurts. I do have feelings you know

[Baezu]

I think it's all for the best to push Baezu to a claim. Her softclaiming is making it painfully obvious anyway that she's either scum or a PR. And I mean, she's not even trying. There haven't been any scumhunting at all from her this game, and her D2 is even worse than her D1.

This role fishing is actually scummy as hell. I will claim when I'm at L-1

[Baezu]

Bae, not trying to be insulting, my apologies.

What I really meant is that you are scum AND the fakest player. Like I can see right through you.

But I'm not scum.

vote johhog with me for rolefishing

[Baezu]

Then fucking lynch me.

I've had it with this town.

all I can say when I flip town is take a look at yourselves esp those of you who PUSHED for my lynch

Here let me help

VOTE: baezu

[Baezu]

Awesome! This game is finally coming together.

SH, Fud, you guys town! Heck, Johhog is prob town too.

Mala I could believe is scum but I've been suspecting egg ever since he tried to convince everyone to state who they tracked.

VOTE: Egg

[Baezu]

Awesome! This game is finally coming together.

SH, Fud, you guys town! Heck, Johhog is prob town too.

Mala I could believe is scum but I've been suspecting egg ever since he tried to convince everyone to state who they tracked.

VOTE: Egg

Why don't you just say this "I don't have a clue who's scum, but ill vote anyone to save my ass"

You keep vote hopping and it's pissing me off to no end.

I don't really know who's scum, you're right. Only the scum know who they are. All I have is an educated guess. I'm using it to come up with conclusions.

I'm not willing to vote anyone to save my ass. I'm not willing to vote dart or SH or fud and my ass doesn't need saving.

[Baezu]

IF YOU READ MY POSTS YOU'D KNOW I SAID I HAVE NO CLUE WHO TO VOTE FOR.

grrr. Sorry it pisses you off to no end. It pisses me off too. I wish I could make up my mind just as much as you do.

Right now, I'm happy with my egg vote. Is that good enough for you?

[Baezu]

Johhog, why you tunneling so hard?

There's gotta be someone besides me who you think is scum. Who would that someone be?

[Baezu]

UNVOTE:

[Baezu]

Man, I keep going back and forth on the hydra...Johhog is sounding more and more scummy and just seems to be jumping on anything that moves. I'm really conflicted this game, like Mala said. Scum - you're doing a fabulous job mind-fucking the town.

Lynch pool {Johhog, SH, Beli}

[Baezu]

ok. I can buy that. I just didn't want a mislynch. You guys have more experience at this game than I do and you've prob had other games with egg to know.

VOTE: egg

[Baezu]

v/la until wed

[Baezu]

Well she's at L-1 and I definitely intend to hammer after we hear from her.

[Baezu]

It was ballsy to wait until night three, good move. The devil gives good advice, eh?
I almost visited Johog, too...
Baezu who'd you save? (Sorry we didn't believe you!)

I actually protected you last night, dart.

[Baezu]

VOTE: Malakittens

[Baezu]

Good game, all!

I learned a lot from all of you!