Micro 186: Vengeball (Game is over)

[Klick]

Jake, tell me everything that's happened in this game so far from your perspective.

[Klick]

Oh hey guys!

Actually, could you answer the same question?

[Klick]

Okay yeah, MP5 is one town.

[Klick]

So I don't really see the point in specifically aiming for the Godfathers over hunting scum when lynching Goons does nothing bad but puts town in more control.

That said,

VOTE: Siv

He's obviously some scum. He's likely a Goon, but could be a Godfather trying to look like an obvious Goon. I don't see any hurt in lynching him.

[Klick]

Jake, do you think it's possible that Siv is a Godfather?

[Klick]

Okay. How likely do you think it is that he's Mafia of any sort?

[Klick]

So I guess I'm the deciding vote?

Jake, point me to the posts and stuff that show why Rift is a Godfather. Rift, do the same for Seanald.

[Klick]

@Jake: I have no real reason not to hammer Seanald right now, while I think Rift has a significant chance of being a townie. I'm not really inclined to go through your posts.

Also, anyone could hammer anyone at this point - I'm just the only player who could choose to hammer either of them.

[Klick]

Oh yeah Siv unvoted.

Rift - in a team of Jake/Jason, who would be the Godfather?

[Klick]

I'm all for that, actually.

VOTE: Jake

[Klick]

Rift, I think it's a good idea to lynch Jake now. He'll be hard to lynch later if he makes it to LyLo, and right now he has a really high chance of being scum.

[Klick]

I could see Seanald

Maybe

being scum, but i somehow doubt it, seanald is being seanald.

Hi Jason. I assume you have yourself as town, that means from your POV there are two town left. Is seanald seriously one of your two top town reads?

I have me as town, but i am more focused on lynching the most scummy, then with a few scum flips deciding who else is scum.

I'm not gonna pretend i know which half of this town is scum.

Oops.

VOTE: Jason

[Klick]

...lol. As did you. I have a verifiable history of believing in scumslips. Furthermore, even if this meta didn't exist, believing in scumslips is not a scumtell.

Lets lynch Seanald after Jason, if we can.

[Klick]

Hey guys while that shit was going on you should have been reading my posts and voting Jason. Seanald's right too though.

Sorry Jake but you're probably scum via PoE and Rift is townier than you. Plus if you are town, I'm still right.

[Klick]

Okay lol. I just actually bothered to look at what Jake was talking about. That's retarded.

In other news, We have two incredibly obvious scum in Jason and Seanald that I haven't heard any comments about. On the Jason thing, at least - there are at least votes on Seanald.

[Klick]

Didn't catch where you said Jason, but okay.

VOTE: Seanald

[Klick]

Ah, coolio.

[Klick]

Well, that'd be extreme stupidity given who else is voting rift, but ew I don't like the reasoning for scumjason at allll.

What about my reasoning?

[Klick]

Um, some of the reasoning is good and fine and I agree with both of you on jason scum.

But part of it looks like "We MUST lynch the GFs first,

and anyone who disagrees with this is scum

."

Not necessarily scum, but at the very least not getting the realities of the situation.

After the first lynch/shoot we're at 3 town and 2 teams of 2 each scum.

If we lynch a godfather then it's 3 town and a team of (1 GF, 1G) because the other goon dies with the GF. If we lynch a goon then it's 3 town and (1 GF, 1G) and (1 GF). And it will be that much more difficult for town to control the next lynch because it's 3 votes out of 6 not 3 votes out of 5.

This really doesn't change the fact that lynching someone you feel is very strongly scum is more important than lynching someone who could be a Godfather, but isn't too scummy otherwise. I would lynch someone who is very likely a Goon over someone I'm not too sure about in any direction, because lynching a Goon, at the very least, does nothing hurtful.

@Jake: Do you agree with this line of logic?

PEdit: Pretty sure it works like regular Vengeful, in which a Goon will live if its GF is shot by a Vengekill.

[Klick]

From the OP.

12. There is a mafia godfather on each team that

if lynched

, will take any living goons of that colour with them. (losing that scumteam the game)

See bold.

I'd much rather lynch the GF than a goon, but a goon is better than a townie.

what was the point of asking that?

You should vote Seanald. He's at least not town.

[Klick]

Except I (and I'm pretty sure others) think they're town, while no one thinks Seanald is town.

[Klick]

I was just about to say that Siv's recent posts have been really townie.

[Klick]

Honestly, I'm ready for this day to be over with. Jason, Seanald, or Jake - I'm pretty sure all three are scum.

[Klick]

Lolz.

Rift, up for a Jason lynch?

[Klick]

VOTE: Jason

Jason lynch is good lynch.

[Klick]

Success.

VOTE: Seanald

[Klick]

He's not a likely GF, but he's a very likely scum in general. Lynching the Goon would give us an extra chance at the GF.

[Klick]

Anyone really. I have no clue as to the GF, because you, MP5, and Siv have all been town reads at some point. I guess my best shot would be between you and Siv.

PEdit: Why doesn't Rift/Seanald make sense?

[Klick]

How does the wagon clear Rift?

I'm trying to assemble my thoughts. If MP5 is scum, it makes things a lot simpler, but I really doubt he is.

[Klick]

Hmm.

UNVOTE:

Starting to consider the possibility that Seanald is town. The only partner I can see for him at this point is MP5.

[Klick]

Rift, how likely do you think it is that MP5 is scum?

[Klick]

Because reading back, MP5's first three posts are what make me feel like he's town. I don't know if I can see him faking those.

PEdit: So we had our read for the same reasons, I guess?

[Klick]

Refreshing my thoughts.

I'm going to assume that:

A. Rift and Seanald are not scum together. They both sat on each other's wagons for forever while they were both at L-1. Granted, Rift hammered Jason when the wagon popped up, but Rift-Goon Seanald-GF is still unlikely.
B. One of {Rift, Seanald} is scum. It's unlikely that the two popular wagons yesterday were both on town, and no scum attempted to hammer either of them. Meanwhile, the Jason lynch happened in a snap. If we go off of both of these, then from my PoV, there is also one scum in {MP5, Siv}.

Having a lynch/shoot if we're wrong from either group will give us a ton of information due to knowing either the GF or the Goon. Otherwise, I see no way to go forward with this info.

[Klick]

Well actually, MP5 sat on the Seanald wagon all throughout Day 2 while he was at L-1. This makes Seanald GF-MP5 Goon unlikely. Meaning the only person Seanald could be GF with is Siv, which I could actually see.

[Klick]

@Seanald: Who is scum?

[Klick]

Er, not the confirm post. Posts 4, 8, and 9. His confusion of the setup looks really legit. But I'm not certain.

[Klick]

Yes, that one. It's town because there are only two possibilities - he's scum and planned to fake that, or he's town and actually didn't know. I don't think that's the first thing he does as scum here. But I dunno.

[Klick]

What if Cheery got the setup wrong and we're all town?

[Klick]

The thing is, if you're town, and I'm town, then MP5 can't be town. Unless you think a Rift/Seanald team is plausible? But at the same time, you've also done things that make me think you can't be scum. That's why I'm having such an issue with this.

[Klick]

Oh hey. I was staring at the Fallout Shelter for forever xD

[Klick]

I'd like to hear how you came to that conclusion. I'm not in the best position to explain, but I think in particular the start of Day Three makes that scumteam very unlikely.

Could you post your case without Syr?

[Klick]

The part where I kinda voted him right off the bat, when he was very vulnerable to being lynched. Even if I was a GF and he was a Goon, that would be a terrible time to bus, especially since it doesn't really gain anything.

[Klick]

I'm on my phone, but in very short response to your case: Seanald's play

looks

scummy, and that's where your whole thing falls apart. In a similar way that you townread Siv, I have a "too scummy to be scum" read on Seanald.

[Klick]

Same difference. Seanald's town, and that causes everything to break.

[Klick]

So... I'm not sure I see a situation in which MP5 isn't scum, or at least a good lynch. He also has the added bonus of being the Godfather if he is scum.

VOTE: MP5

If you're town, you should shoot Siv. Reasoning being that, if I'm right, scum are split into the groups {MP5, Siv, Klick} and {Rift, Seanald}.

[Klick]

What's wrong with the hammer? There wasn't really any point in waiting.

I'm going to find it really funny when it's MP5-GF/Seanald-Goon.

[Klick]

So, you're suggesting I knew someone was about to unvote MP5?

[Klick]

That's a townslip for Siv, not Rift. The Mafia PMs don't seem to have a QT link. Unless it's in a separate PM?

Which means MP5's scum. ^_^

[Klick]

We NEEDED communication. So many things I could have told Seanald to make our situation better.

But the Rift hydra is a boss. You two are both really solid players, and you work great as a team. I'm impressed.

It didn't help that all of the town were incredibly obvious by the time I replaced in, but I did what I could. Good game.

[Klick]

If Seanald was lynched I'm pretty sure I'd be fucked anyway. I had to do what I could. I was hoping it'd be shrugged off.

With the MP5 vote, I was hoping he'd shoot Seanald, and then I'd vote Siv and try to pull this off again.

And yes, I only posted that because I wanted people to see it. But it also applies to this.

[Klick]

Thanks

[Klick]

Don't worry Jason, Jake is always grumpy.