Micro 193 - HD had a Greater Idea (Mafia)! [GAME OVER]

[JasonWazza]

Oh i'm here, never posted here so yeah.

gonna read up what i missed.

[JasonWazza]

Going off the discards, i would probably vote CDB.

The RQS looks scummy as fuck.

VOTE: ChannelDelibird

[JasonWazza]

His RQS seems town to me but could be scum trying to find something to pound into a lynch. Null. All 5 of his posts are .. eh. JW, what about his discard makes you think he's scum over anyone else?

The fact that it's a town Mason is what is putting me off.

Also the RQS is bad, because regardless of what we say, it doesn't influence what the second role we have is.

For example, Player X has said he prefers scum, he discarded a town card, he is an easy mislynch, regardless of the fact it's probably more likely his second card is town.

This is what CDB is quite obviously setting up because there is no point to the question.

[JasonWazza]

I'm able to get reads on people without voting them, and inactives who I've recently seen just post on the prod as scum. (Micro 186 just finished where Jason had been doing that), I'm heavily suspicious of them seemingly doing it again.
It does more depend on whether he comes back on his own again now. (but then HD has a much stricter prods=replacement policy than I did - though there is more time between the prods)

To be fair, it was because i didn't have this topic in my "view your posts" area, now that it is i will be more active.

I don't quite understand why Mason is a scum discard. There is a low chance that there are another Mason in the game, thus rendering the Mason role effectively a VT.
Furthermore, the probability that the second card is town is independent from the first card. Thus, I realize that going off discards (especially those that are shitty) is actually pretty ridiculous. The only "strong" discard that we had was that of Cheery Dog's 1 shot Mafia Day Vig, and glancing at the roles, there are no mafia roles (except maybe governer but not really) that are better than the Day Vig. For me, that would fairly certain rule out that Cheery Dog is mafia.

On the other hand, I don' t think that the RQS was that horrible. It did get the game started. Considering how little scum there are this game (at most 4), and how many factions, I'm going to take a look at the most likely scum distributions in term of factions.

In this sort of game, i do believe Mason is MORE of a scum discard, having a confirmed Day 1 is good, having a confirmable claim is even better.

And even if your by yourself, you possibly can catch people trying to fake claim solo mason.


Also that RQS was horrible, also how is 4 scum "little"?

P-Edit:

Spoiler: big load of crap

And I deliever.
In a 4 scum game
0.04459554: 1 scum group
0.432656734: 2 scum Groups
0.450154985: 3 scum Groups
0.072592741: 4 scum Groups

In a 3 scum game
0.108489151 1 scum group
0.593640636 2 scum groups
0.297870213 3 scum groups

In a 2 scum game
0.313868613 1 scum group
0.686131387 2 scum groups

Gee DrDo, what does this all mean? Well, it means that we are overwhelmingly likely in dealing with 2 (and less likely 3) scum groups. Furthermore, all indicated that it is almost certain that there is a lone wolf(alien/scum) running about.
This is actually really bad, as we would potentially suffer 2 losses per night, and we would only have 2 mislynches.

What does that mean for us?

Drum roll please

FUCK ALL

[JasonWazza]

What does that mean for us?

Drum roll please

FUCK ALL

[JasonWazza]

Hey Grim, why did you RVS instead of voting based on discards?

[JasonWazza]

Jason can you explain #89 please? Why does it matter if he rvs'd or voting based on discards?

also curious as to why Jason thinks that town mason is the worst role to throw away? (Or whatever you said to that effect)

#89 was seeing what he would say, that and i think voting based on discards seems slightly more town then just RVSing (that's probably me personally but meh)

For the second part

In this sort of game, i do believe Mason is MORE of a scum discard, having a confirmed Day 1 is good, having a confirmable claim is even better.

And even if your by yourself, you possibly can catch people trying to fake claim solo mason.

[JasonWazza]

It's a random question in that the answer doesn't actually effect the alignment one has in their role PM

P-Edit: It doesn't make it any less scummy that you do it every game, you do realize that?

[JasonWazza]

P-Edit: It doesn't make it any less scummy that you do it every game, you do realize that?

IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SCUMMY AT ALL IF I'M PROVEN TO DO IT EVERY GAME. I have just given you proof that I do it as town too, so how can you possibly argue that I'm more likely to be scum for having done it?

JUST BECAUSE YOU DO A SCUMMY THING ALL THE TIME DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS SCUMMY.

[JasonWazza]

I promise to catch up and post here tonight

[JasonWazza]

You check if i have town meta for doing this CD?

No?

Then maybe you fucking should, catching up now.

[JasonWazza]

In that the questions you're asking only seem to pop up when you spot something that you ought to or simply can safely ask about, rather than following a pattern of actually proactively hunting for scum.

Who do you think is most likely to be scum?

well right now I think Grimgroove is voting me and letting others do the work which isn't town motivated in any way.
ETL isn't doing much which is odd.
Cheery could also be scum too, I didn't like his Jason vote which came across as an effort to appear like he was doing something.

Since when is it scum motivated though?

How is ETL not doing much odd?

I'm a bit meh on cherry myself.

Jason, you can't apply cookie-cutter tells to people and go "I think x is generically scummy, so anyone who does x is scummy for doing it". People are different and, if you want to vote for me, you have to explain why I, specifically, am more likely to be scum than town. If you accept that I ask about alignment preferences at the start of Greater Idea games all the time, then it simply does not logically follow that doing it in this game makes me more likely to be scum than town. I am not asking you to take it as a towntell. I am pointing out that it can only be a null tell on me.

That's not what i'm saying.

I am saying you shouldn't do scummy things (CAUSE IT'S STILL A SCUMMY THING) all the time to get meta to agree it's a null tell, you shouldn't have to refer to meta like this, stop doing it instead and do thing's that are pro-town

I'm not advocating that we spent time NOW talking about preferences, for the record. I wish more people had answered me earlier on but we've got more pressing matters at hand. Just to clear up any confusion.

The answer's won't help us at any point.

Instead they create WIFOM later on.

I'm here. Just reading and stuff. I had my college graduation and i was drinking for 15 hours. I drunk hammered someone in another game which was silly so i decided to not post here until i sorted my shit out. I am still happy with my vote

(Don't mention ongoing games)

CDB am i dumb for not voting Mac?

why dont we like whoever im currently voting (i think ^this^) but im at work so i cant check right now

You're not dumb but it would help if you voted for Mac!

I voted for Grimgroove because it looked like he was watching and summarising rather than playing. I think Mac is worse.

As much as i hate people summarizing, how is it scummy, over just anti-town?

Oh, so you are an alien. Perfect. Lynch now please.

This seems pretty scummy, you assumed this straight up without considering possible being town?

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

1. Not nessecarilly, you could gamble on a single pick one and out a power role, or have a 100/109 in not being counter claimed (chance the card wasn't drawn given the discard knowledge)
2. His discard VT this point is null and void.
3. MOST roles can't be proven, your point is null and void.
4. Possible, but a stupid reason to suspect a claim.

[JasonWazza]

The fact i've brought it up to YOU before means i think your ignoring it on purpose.

But here it is anyway

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25051

[JasonWazza]

CDB am i dumb for not voting Mac?

why dont we like whoever im currently voting (i think ^this^) but im at work so i cant check right now

You're not dumb but it would help if you voted for Mac!

I voted for Grimgroove because it looked like he was watching and summarising rather than playing. I think Mac is worse.

As much as i hate people summarizing, how is it scummy, over just anti-town?

Either of you: tell me where I summarized. Gah.

I never said that, i asked him a question.

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

1. Not nessecarilly, you could gamble on a single pick one and out a power role, or have a 100/109 in not being counter claimed (chance the card wasn't drawn given the discard knowledge)
2. His discard VT this point is null and void.
3. MOST roles can't be proven, your point is null and void.
4. Possible, but a stupid reason to suspect a claim.

If not for these reasons, when is a claim suspect to you, aside from the obvious (and evidently rare) case there's a counterclaim?
I strongly disagree with your point 3, especially in the longer run.

I'm just saying don't suspect the claim, suspect the player.

Also 3 isn't a disagreeable point. you can't prove most claims.

Some, are provable, most aren't.

[JasonWazza]

But your trying to throw more suspicion onto him based on the claim, which is scummy.

[JasonWazza]

that's odd, to me it's not convenient as he hasn't been investigated as an alien yet.

[JasonWazza]

I think your word choice arguments are shit, other then that, seems like a good argument.

[JasonWazza]

You've pointed out things that you think are scummy from other players in your catch-up but your vote is still on me despite your reasoning being proved null. Why are you still voting for me?

UNVOTE: ChannelDelibird

It's more about the fact that i didn't think about unvoting

I'll wait for a vote count before voting.

[JasonWazza]

VOTE: Guyett

[JasonWazza]

People I'm not OK with lynching (prefer no lynch)
C-Dog

Someone's getting worried that the kill is gonna get linked to him.

VOTE: DrDolittle

[JasonWazza]

In other words, scum don't kill people suspecting them, they kill people they can't lynch.

[JasonWazza]

And your argument here is better?

[JasonWazza]

^ "OMGUS YOU TOTALLY CAUGHT ME"

Just saying

[JasonWazza]

I don't have an arguement

... yet.

Actually I think you're scum. VOTE: Jason

This is coming from scum.

Here's my case on your(Jason) ISO
#1 Activity related nothingness
#2 - 8 Arguing about something that is evidently null with CDB, which he explainst
#9 - 10 Activity related nothingness
#11 First actually content post. Actually filled with nothing important except theory talk and continuation on #2 - 8
#12 Activity related nothingness
#13 Theorytalk
#14 - 17 Wants to vote Grimm to set up a lynch. Doesn't have a case.
#18 Obvious vote
#19 - 23. Trys to make a case on me. Reason
"Scum don't kill people suspecting them, they kill people they can't lynch."
CDog was most likely town as stated by many players already. No one was able to lynch C-Dog. So everyone could be that "scum" you are talking about, so I don't see your reason holding jack shit.

Tl;dr: Your posts are shit. You are not trying to scum hunt. And when you do, you give crappy null reasons that doesn't hold just with a bit of thinking.
Lynch this scum.

My "case" on you is your vote was based on nothing which wait a second.

CDog was most likely town as stated by many players already. No one was able to lynch C-Dog. So everyone could be that "scum" you are talking about, so I don't see your reason holding jack shit.

HOLY SHIT BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THETROLLIE WAS THE ONE THAT MADE THE KILL?

[JasonWazza]

The question is do i need to rebuff the shit in 361?

Answer is i don't

[JasonWazza]

In other words, scum don't kill people suspecting them, they kill people they can't lynch.

But why would scum make people unlynchable in the first place with statements like the one DrDolittle made? Not buying that logic.

DrDolittle's case on you isn't as conclusive as he makes it out to be, but it's better than anything else we have right now, except for the case on Mac, but he's V/LA.

And where are the others?

Why not make people unlynchable? you have kills.

[JasonWazza]

Prod Dodging as well.

[JasonWazza]

Honest to god not another prod dodge, this is saying i am here and will catch up now.

[JasonWazza]

I don't have an arguement

... yet.

Actually I think you're scum. VOTE: Jason

This is coming from scum.

No it isn't. Why do you think this is more likely to come from scum than town?

This is scum going "Well fuck i can't make up a case on him, so i will call you scum instead."

Given the Salures Claim (which is honest to god bullshit) I'd guess he still is scum, especially given the drilling on to the fact it has to be an Alien.

Here's my theory, he was Judas, he got killed, and now is Mafia.

Yeah DrDolittle is probably scum, and Mac is possibly an Alien.

Why are we lynching Mac first again?

[JasonWazza]

Your gonna have to point me to where he became

confirmed

Alien.

[JasonWazza]

Re DrDoLittle: Pretty sure that Juda's would just turn him into Mafia, not Alien

Re Mac: You don't believe that there is possible town motivation FROM Mac's PoV?

Because i do.

[JasonWazza]

I'd pick Judas every time, basically a Mafia Traitor, with a universal bulletproof that forces to join the mafia, what is bad about that?

BUT that isn't the point as this is all.... wait for it

WIFOM

[JasonWazza]

1) What is the motivation for Judas to claim that He converted?

Good point.

This is not a good point, it's WIFOM

The motivation is plain and simple, TO LOOK TOWN

[JasonWazza]

Playing with you is exasperating.

First of all, Judas turns into Mafia when he dies.
Second, what fucking town points do you get for exposing that you got NKed?
I wanted to point out that
1) there are two scum left - If I pointed this out as Judas, it would only hurt Mafia since with 1 apparent "NK", town would think that there is only 1 scum/scum faction left, and as Judas I can Coast by.
2) Mac's Lynch today is stupid. - If I pointed this out as Judas, it would only hurt Mafia as Mafia wants to eliminate SK

1) is a benefit for a Judas
2) is stupid, You've already assumed Mac as an alien, meaning you don't NEED him dead yet.

Lets assume this

Werewolf.
Alien
Judas

Alien attempts to kill Judas

Therefore Judas has NO reason to kill the Alien BECAUSE THEY WANT TO LYNCH THE MOTHERFUCKING WEREWOLF FIRST.

There are two cases.
1) Mac is scum. Then with the conspiracy theorist claim, it only makes sense that Mac is alien. However, there is only two scum left with two NKs happening yesterday. That means that Mac has already used up his kills. He is completely verfied-scum tommorow if there is only 1 night-kill since he cannot kill tommorrow. As for now, he is essentially reduced to a survivor. Therefore, it is much better to try to find scum right now so that town can get an extra lynching chance to find scum before LyLo. Meanwhile, Mac has no choice but to help the town, as the only way he can win is to kill scum.
2) Mac is not scum. He shouldn't be lynched.

Yeah how does any of this make you not scum?

[JasonWazza]

Lets assume this

Werewolf.
Alien

Judas

Town

Alien attempts to kill

Judas

Town

Therefore

Judas

Town has NO reason to kill the Alien BECAUSE THEY WANT TO LYNCH THE MOTHERFUCKING WEREWOLF FIRST.

Is there anything wrong with this?

Can't quite tell for sure what "this" you're referring to but, if you mean "Jason's post", the answer is "yes, pretty much everything about it".

Because it's not only a single scum that is by themselves that would be afraid of a kill.

Because a townie would totally be afraid of being killed.

What i am saying is, if he truely believed that Mac was an alien he'd push us to lynch him, he is doing the opposite.

Because the "Alien" can be lynch bait later.

[JasonWazza]

Because it's not only a single scum that is by themselves that would be afraid of a kill.

Could you clarify this sentence please?

I (JasonWazza) am implying that the Judas (DrDoLittle) isn't pushing the Alien (Mac) because the Alien is an easy mislynch for later and that a singular scum (DrDoLittle) would be more likely to attack and lynch a killing faction.

That is what i'm getting at as to how his claim is not town at all, it's him trying to change us from focusing on the Alien that wasted his kill (Mac) to the werewolf that he is yet to find (assumed second kill)

[JasonWazza]

:eyeroll:

Yes that was totally a fucking slip.... dumbasses.

CDB, he is claiming Salrus, meaning he dies and turns into town, thus there is 2 night kills by his saying.

I am calling him a Judas because i think he is lying THAT'S PRETTY DARN SIMPLE

He is basically setting up Mac for a lynch down the track.

and i think if DrDoLittle's claim has ANY scrap of truth, that the Alien kill was wasted.

Now given the info DrDoLittle has given us assuming the following is natural;

a) there was 2 kills (quite easily the simple assumption is that there is 2 factions.)
b) That DDL didn't attempt to kill himself (No fucking shit)
c) That therefore leaves Mac (or assumedly someone else) as an Alien.

BUT there is one thing that he leaves out, he never EVER claimed the CD kill.

THERE'S A GOOD REASON TO THIS PEOPLE, CAUSE HE COULDN'T KILL BECAUSE HE IS A MOTHERFUCKING JUDAS.

If he is Salrus he's the fucking worst ever, because he should be pushing the Mac lynch straight up.

[JasonWazza]

You guys are fucking retarded.

I'M MAKING ASSUMPTIONS THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME SCUM

CDB, would that still be the case if he is a single scum member (ie. as Salrus he is the only Mafia member) because i would have thought that didn't apply.

Amrun, i assume that because i'm going for what is being pushed by DrDoLittle (mind you i may be now wrong due to the Salrus not knowing the mafia)

The reason i am saying Mac made an alien kill, is because that is the only logical way in my mind of thought that it would have made sense.

The fact i made an assumption of who killed who, means fuck all, i like to put names to kills, it doesn't matter if it's back to front, that isn't the point.

[JasonWazza]

The fact i made an assumption of who killed who, means fuck all, i like to put names to kills, it doesn't matter if it's back to front, that isn't the point.

[JasonWazza]

That's L-1 lets discourage derp hammers.

I am Town Supersaint.

P-Edit- you dumbasses

[JasonWazza]

No Drdolittle was always voting me

[JasonWazza]

Dumbass

[JasonWazza]

Yeah cause your a dumb fuck.

P.S. if your not scum, you just quite possibly lost town the game

[JasonWazza]

Nope i'm not trolling

[JasonWazza]

P.S.: i still maintain Trollie lost us that game, and i still maintain that me putting a name to a kill was in no way shape or form a slip.

Let's hope you all learn your lesson that slips like that aren't actual slips.

[JasonWazza]

CDB, you should assume i am making an assumption THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA OF MAFIA.

[JasonWazza]

That sort of mistake is much more likely to come from town than scum, even if it came from town in this case.

The majority of this site, in current meta, would instant lynch that, just as was done here.

These 2 lines should not agree with eachother.

Making assumptions based on night kills is NOT EVER A SCUM TELL

[JasonWazza]

That's a stupid assumption though, i'm making assumption's based on my townie's knowledge.

I'm going to be open with said assumptions, because i want town to be on the same page as i am

IT'S NOT FUCKING SCUMMY

[JasonWazza]

There was when i assumed Saulus had access to a night kill.

[JasonWazza]

(Hence why i was calling him a Judas)

[JasonWazza]

I'll try and break it down

2 night kills:

DrDoLittle
Cherry Dog

Dr never claimed the CD kill, and it's doubtful that he would kill himself.

So i assumed that a werewolf and a Alien made the kills.

[JasonWazza]

Welcome to Micro 193, JasonWazza! Please PM me with your choice of one of the following two roles that you will use for this game.

Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie

You are a

Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie

. You will show up as guilty to all investigations. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated.

Mason

You are a

Town Mason

. You know any other Mason roles in the game. You may communicate with the other Masons at any time during the game. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated.

Town Mason was my choice.