Micro : The Cult 2 (Game Over)

[Deltabacon]

VOTE: AP

I replaced out of the last game I could have shared with you, and I watched you romp to victory whilst I was thinking you were town.

NEVER. AGAIN.

[Deltabacon]

His reasons are really rather valid, in my opinion.

---

'

We

don't have cookies, but

we

have bacon'? Who is

'we'

? Probably over-reading this, but I'm happy to join this bandwagon, for now, at least.

UNVOTE: AngryPigeon

VOTE: Pimhel

Kid A kinda-nearly-halfy does the same to explain his vote being directed away from AP , but I'm conscious that:
A) It's not on the same scale as the Pim vote.
B) He voted for me, which may well bring into disrepute this point.

[Deltabacon]

His reasons are really rather valid, in my opinion.

---

'

We

don't have cookies, but

we

have bacon'? Who is

'we'

? Probably over-reading this, but I'm happy to join this bandwagon, for now, at least.

UNVOTE: AngryPigeon

VOTE: Pimhel

Kid A kinda-nearly-halfy does the same to explain his vote being directed away from AP , but I'm conscious that:
A) It's not on the same scale as the Pim vote.
B) He voted for me, which may well bring into disrepute this point.

Wait, what :S?
What's wrong with the ' we' ?
And do you even understand the reason RandomYoshi is voting me? As it doesn't show in this post.

The 'We' implies a team, no-one as yet is aware of any kind of team. That you include me in the 'We' looks like either foreshadowing, or buddying. And yes, I understood his reason perfectly, and I agreed with it. I didn't realise I had to go so far as to paraphrase the argument again in my own words.

Why are you defending Kid A?

[Deltabacon]

Hence the inclusion of the 'Buddying' clause of that sentence, AP.

[Deltabacon]

Which is why it's such a peculiar move, given that he doesn't townread me.

[Deltabacon]

I keep my eyes shut? What? That's a great elaboration of your argument. Why are you actually voting for me? Is it because I'm voting for you, or is it due to some more, incredibly elaborate and far-fetched reasoning?

NINJA'd: It's the implication of 'team' that disconcerts me. You paint it however you wish, I saw it as definite buddying, and there is no reason for town to buddy so blatantly.

[Deltabacon]

I disregard the rebuttal from a person whom I believe to be scummy, and as such, I am scum? No. If you had a legitimate argument, I have an open mind. But you don't.

You find me scummy, purely because I find you scummy. That is the basis of your vote on me.

[Deltabacon]

Kid A hasn't offered an explanation.

Given that you clearly think I'm the scum (your vote is on me), why are you saying Kid A's vote on Rememberance is a Good Vote? Seriously, do you not care about who gets lynched, because you're still yet to provide a case on me.

[Deltabacon]

Why don't you summarize it for me, you know, so that it's not completely fucking invisible to anyone.

Furthermore, now that you've pointed out Kid A's explanation, do you want to point out the bit where it co-aligns with AP's and yours? With AP, he says it meant the entirety of the wagon on him, whereas with you, you make only specific reference to you and me. Kid A doesn't even make reference to the important part of the post, instead dismissing it as joke, which is convenient, given that you made the post early enough to still be considered RVS. You clearly think that it's me, and given that you aren't even trying to convince anyone else, it tells me that you're happy for ANYONE to be lynched other than yourself.

[Deltabacon]

I'd love someone to post a coherent case against me at some point.

[Deltabacon]

It's entirely possible that I'm simply looking for a fight, but I feel like PimHel is the scum, if not for the original post, then for the posts afterwards and his reluctance to post a case on his vote target (me). His sole reason for voting me so far, is that I voted for him. That's not a town thing to do under any circumstances, and no-one else jumps out at me so wildly as scum.

[Deltabacon]

But a townie wouldn't panic so much as to divert attention so promptly onto their attacker, especially given Pimhel's experience with the game (5 years). I think it's pretty awful for him not to have supplied a case, then claim that he has. (He hasn't)

[Deltabacon]

@Bacon.

*snip*

I've given my summary.

*snip*

See, thing is, you haven't.

Bacon. If he gives a bad response to my questions, he'll have my vote.

Yeah that's not a case. You never defined what a bad response would be, you just went right ahead and OMGUS voted me after I responded to your questions. Just because other people have provided you with a convenient excuse which you're now hiding behind, doesn't mean my interpretation is invalid else I might as well replace out, given that my opinions are apparently irrelevant.

BUT WAIT - THATS NOT EVEN MY CASE ANYMORE.

Let's have a look at how many times I've asked Pimhel to supply me with a case, shall we?

I disregard the rebuttal from a person whom I believe to be scummy, and as such, I am scum? No.

If you had a legitimate argument

, I have an open mind. But you don't.

You find me scummy, purely because I find you scummy. That is the basis of your vote on me.

Here, I softly try to nudge him towards making a case and/or rebuttal aaaaand he ignores it.

Kid A hasn't offered an explanation.

Given that you clearly think I'm the scum (your vote is on me), why are you saying Kid A's vote on Rememberance is a Good Vote? Seriously, do you not care about who gets lynched, because

you're still yet to provide a case on me.

Being more forceful now aaaaaand nope, no case given.

Why don't you summarize it for me, you know, so that it's not completely fucking invisible to anyone.

*snip*

Yeah this is me outright telling him aaaaand nope, still no case given.

But wait, look at this next post!

*snip*
I've given my summary. And I'm not nthe type of player who posts a giant case. I look at posts that are made, point out what I don't like about it and collect data before going on a rampage. *snip*

I'll translate this for you all: 'Pimhel has given his summary, and cannot be arsed with trying any harder.'

If he's not scum, then he's a fucking unhelpful townie who needs lynching. My vote isn't moving.

[Deltabacon]

I'll start looking at other possibilities when you convince me you aren't scum. Backpedalling and coming up with a case against me would be a nice start.

[Deltabacon]

That's your case? That's laughably pathetic.

[Deltabacon]

BUT WAIT - THATS NOT EVEN MY CASE ANYMORE.

Buddying - when overtly or subtly, a player tries to carry favor with other players to make themselves look more town.

So you vote Kid A basically for trying to look pro-town, yet you say this. Hypocricy?

Defending Kid A.

@Kid A
There's nothing wrong voting a player who's voting you if you have good reasons, so why worry.

Direct address and reassurance.

@Kid A
Good vote. I'll look at the case later though

Complimentary statement, makes it look like you agree and will look at his opinion in more detail. You still haven't.

Kind of like that.

[Deltabacon]

But you don't have good reasons.

[Deltabacon]

For me, Scum is in {PimHel, Freshiscoolman}.

Discuss.

I totally agree - you should vote for PimHel <3

[Deltabacon]

I thjink Punhel is sxum. SHWWP IT.

[Deltabacon]

I can only apologise for the earlier drunkpost - it won't be happening again.

[Deltabacon]

You can disregard it if you want, because even I can't translate the second sentence. :/

[Deltabacon]

Let me say this better:

1. Where did you go to drink (I mean, a bar, or at home, etcetera).
2. What brand of drink did you have?
3. Why did you drink so much?

Feel free to be vague about these questions, if personal/or uncomfortable.

1. Houseparty
2. Malibu, Smirnoff and... snaps?
3. Woman.
4. Lynch Pimhel.

[Deltabacon]

As productive as this may be, I think we should move on from my inebriated oist last night - there's speculation over whether it was town or not, I'd rather it was just swept under the rug - it's not conducive to good mafia play and townreads at this stage for whatever reason (Being pissed is a towntell? Yay~) can change tommorow given the fact that it's a cult. I'd be much happier if we just moved on from it and resolved that I am never ever to log in whilst under the influence again.

[Deltabacon]

+1 for Freshman needs to get into the game again, sharpish.

[Deltabacon]

Feel like sharing these perspectives, or do you feel like not bullshitting us anymore?

[Deltabacon]

Erm, at no point have you mentioned anything regarding posts #149 and #169. The 'They' in question is AngryPidgeon for #169 and Rememberance for #149. Can you clarify what you're going on about, because at the moment I don't think even you know what you're jabbering on about.

[Deltabacon]

I'll also point out that I have 1 scum (Pimhel), 1 lurker (Freshman) and now one probable VI (Kid A) on my wagon. Is there anymore of you out there who feel misguided enough to hop on, or can we get down to the business of lynching Pimhel now?

[Deltabacon]

'Townie way of thinking' and 'Good Reasoning' are completely different concepts. Since you're so adament that Pimhel has supplied a case, why don't you go ISO him and quote it in full for me. Until then, all your claims of misrepresentation are void.

[Deltabacon]

I am, but it's unprovable, which is decidedly inconvienient.

@Kid: You're relying on his definitions. However, he's disregarding what I said, being hypocritical. Apparently I'm disregarding everything he says, which is a fair enough stance.

And in your quotation of his Post 139, he does the same.

I'll also argue that alot of what you quoted was simply rebuttals, not a case, other than 59 and 73, given that they've been given a bit of context.

[Deltabacon]

Fair enough:

1: Probably Yoshi if I was in that situation, he's further above suspicion I think to the players as a whole which makes him a better choice.
2: If I find reason to, yes. I don't believe that my case against Pimhel has been rebutted fully - It's certainly lost a bit of credibilty, but I still believe it to be legitimate. I am acutely aware that I do, on occasion, suffer from confirmation bias. However, given the state of the game, I don't see anyone else (who is active, at least) being scum. For a moment there, before Kid complied with my request for a full and frank quote of Pimhel's case I was starting to lean VI/Scum on him, however he then proceeded to pit himself against me with some degree of clarity in his reasoning which wasn't forced. Freshman is a concern, however I'm not a proponent of Lynch-All-Lurkers, so whilst I am vastly disappointed in his lack of any real contribution, I still quite firmly believe in my read on Pimhel being scum.

3: To summarize it as briefly as possible:

He buddied Kid A to garner support (which I believe to have worked), which is an optimal strategy for scum, given that all he needs to do is to survive until Day 2, and he can win the game even if he is lynched tommorow by culting someone else. (Should this happen, we should search for his target, since they may continue to recruit whilst he cannot, effectively sealing the game) Secondly, he's happier to go back-and-forth in arguments than end them as decisively as Kid A did, which is a lazy way of lead the town to confusion. Kid A was happy to put the work in and try and cut my argument down, whereas constant requests for Pimhel to supply a case we met with a stubborn laziness. He was happy to respond to my calls of 'OMGUS, OMGUS' with a simple declaration that I was wrong - a hypocritical statement, given that that's what I've been doing all game, apparently. Why would a member of the town:

A) Refuse to cut down arguments against them in favour of creating confusion.
B) Buddy extensively with one person, who then feels compelled into defending them for them.
C) Congratulate Kid A (the buddy 'victim' as it were) on a vote for someone whom he isn't voting for, given the number of people that are saying that 'Policy lynches are bad'?

It wasn't a mistake for me to put the clause about 'unhelpful townie' in there, because scummy townies are just as damaging to the town as scum, even more so I would argue. However I think there is very, very little chance of me being wrong in this instance. There is no single argument which can completely dispel the above case - that's not gloating, it's not confirmation bias. Pimhel has done scummy things, and I believe that to mean that he is the Cult leader. Like it or loathe it, that's how my view on the game stays until I am satisfied with a rebuttal that deconstructs what I'm saying, rather than being stubborn and argumentative which serves no purpose except to frustrate which then undermines the credibility of my arguments.

[Deltabacon]

Put a vote down on him then. Lynch Pimhel, I'm really quite sure that he is scum.

Ninja'd: Vote for Pimhel.

[Deltabacon]

You guys should lynch Pimhel today, and end this game. I'm so certain it hurts.

[Deltabacon]

How about 2310 GMT?

[Deltabacon]

Oh crikey, okay. Well, that throws my reads off from yesterday, but we should be focusing solely on today and comparing it to yesterday. The best thing we can do now is find the recruitee, so that we dont have another culted member tommorow. I'm happy to follow the massclaim - I'm a Vanilla Townie. More to come in a few hours - I have to scoot now.

[Deltabacon]

Right-o. I think Kid A is the CL. My bad for not looking at yesterday as objectively as I should have, my mistake. His attack on me was outrageous. However, as I just said, we need to find the recruitee otherwise I believe we will be in LYLO. With that said, I'm disinclined to think Kid A would go for the WIFOMy shit of an AA recruit, so I'm removing AA from the list of potential recruitees. Removing myself as well leaves Rem, Gif, AP, RY and TNE. I don't think AP's voice has changed at all, so I'm striking that from the potential recruitee list.

RY is, ehhhhh, hard to read. I'll list him as a maybe and move on.

That leaves Rem, Gif and TNE. Rem seemed quite happy to push a lynch on a very town-looking person early in the day with his #452, then voted RY. As I said I can't read RY for shit, so I'll overlook the person he voted, but doesn't the fact that he wanted to vote someone he saw as a townread D1 straight away was really rather disconcerting? GiF and TNE are also maybes, but for now I'm happy to roll with a vote on Rem.

VOTE: Remembrance

[Deltabacon]

Buy it or don't buy it, I don't value your opinion over any others today.

[Deltabacon]

It doesn't, but forcing the evidence to fit your reads is the first stage of confirmation bias, and I don't want someone whom I don't believe to have been culted to fall into that trap. If everyone does claim VT, then what is your plan? Lynch everyone who claimed, in order? It's an unrealistic assumption to say that in this game there is only X amount of VT's and Y amount of PR's. You're assuming that there is a set number of these roles, and using that assumption to base cases - what if your assumption is flat-out incorrect?

That's why I don't give a damn if you buy my claim or not, because there is likely more VT claims on the way, I'd wager.

[Deltabacon]

Your theory sucks fucking balls, just sayin.

[Deltabacon]

Well yeah, of course I'm defending myself - or is the site meta now for VT's to roll over and accept a mislynch on them?

[Deltabacon]

OH LOOK DELTABACON IS THE CL, HE DEFENDED HIMSELF.

Great argument. Superb. Top Marks.

[Deltabacon]

Btw, your theory doesn't account for the fact that if you mislynch the first JK target, and they aren't a member of the cult, you end up with 6 players: 4 townies, 2 Cult. Effectively, you put yourself into LYLO. When you find a convincing argument that is more than the less-than-reliable 'Beetlejuice Tell', and the most pathetic game-breaking theory ever, guys - let me know.

Ninja'd:

Oh hey guys, let's all ignore the fact that the strategy is completely unfeasible and sheep a vote based on bullshit and shitty tells.

[Deltabacon]

That wasn't an AtE. AtE is if I pulled the confused or upset card. It was a legitimate question. I'm not accepting a lynch on me, given that it would put us in LYLO once the Apostle (Rem) had the chance to pick the best way to fuck your plan over. Hyperbole is a misnomer as well. At no point have I over-represented what's going on here.

Oh, and it's touching that Rem has tried to run a meta on me with one game as scum. That's cute.

[Deltabacon]

So because scum are motivated to stop a lynch on themselves, that automatically (in combination with your rather baseless accusations of AtE and Hyperbole) makes me scum? I really want to know how you derived a meta from one game as well.

[Deltabacon]

Your vote is on me, your reasoning is here:

I'm mostly responding to his immediate AtE and hyperbole.

No AtE or Hyperbole, see post #564

He does this as scum.

This is a meta read, based off of the one single game on MS that I have been scum and none others.

Tell me more about how I'm twisting your words.

[Deltabacon]

Wait, so telling the truth from my perspective is AtE? I may as well not bother.

Why haven't we lynched Remembrance yet?

[Deltabacon]

/inb4imwrongandAAistheApostle

Rem needs to rebutt GiF's #581 or at least fail trying.

[Deltabacon]

*snip*

1. AtE, we will be in lylo if you mislynch me. In a game with low information, and no idea who the scum is, this argument, makes no sense. If you point out this contradiction, I will respond that stating repeatedly that I am town, is actually disadvantageous to me.

*snip*

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Bad. No. Bad. Terrible. Seriously. Do not want to lose. Crap. Fuck.

Flailing scum, please tell me if you can't see Rem's hypocrisy here. Saying I'm not scumhunting, when I clearly have been and labelling my play as lazy/shit is attacking the person, not the player. Why oh why are you doing this, Rem? Is it because you're scum?

[Deltabacon]

What the hell is happening? Wrong doesn't equal scum, and I'm not the only one who pushed on Pimhel. He WAS scummy as fuck. Now that you have the power of hindsight, it's easy for you to turn around and try to label me as scum. How is it that you know '2 town are pushing your lynch at least'?

[Deltabacon]

'Tremendous lurking' only applies if I was prodded yet.

I'm not.

VOTE: Remembrance

[Deltabacon]

Btw, your theory doesn't account for the fact that if you mislynch the first JK target, and they aren't a member of the cult, you end up with 6 players: 4 townies, 2 Cult. Effectively, you put yourself into LYLO. When you find a convincing argument that is more than the less-than-reliable 'Beetlejuice Tell', and the most pathetic game-breaking theory ever, guys - let me know.

Ninja'd:

Oh hey guys, let's all ignore the fact that the strategy is completely unfeasible and sheep a vote based on bullshit and shitty tells.

That wasn't an AtE. AtE is if I pulled the confused or upset card. It was a legitimate question. I'm not accepting a lynch on me, given that it would put us in LYLO once the Apostle (Rem) had the chance to pick the best way to fuck your plan over. Hyperbole is a misnomer as well. At no point have I over-represented what's going on here.

Oh, and it's touching that Rem has tried to run a meta on me with one game as scum. That's cute.

So because scum are motivated to stop a lynch on themselves, that automatically (in combination with your rather baseless accusations of AtE and Hyperbole) makes me scum? I really want to know how you derived a meta from one game as well.

Your vote is on me, your reasoning is here:

I'm mostly responding to his immediate AtE and hyperbole.

No AtE or Hyperbole, see post #564

He does this as scum.

This is a meta read, based off of the one single game on MS that I have been scum and none others.

Tell me more about how I'm twisting your words.

*snip*

1. AtE, we will be in lylo if you mislynch me. In a game with low information, and no idea who the scum is, this argument, makes no sense. If you point out this contradiction, I will respond that stating repeatedly that I am town, is actually disadvantageous to me.

*snip*

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Bad. No. Bad. Terrible. Seriously. Do not want to lose. Crap. Fuck.

Flailing scum, please tell me if you can't see Rem's hypocrisy here. Saying I'm not scumhunting, when I clearly have been and labelling my play as lazy/shit is attacking the person, not the player. Why oh why are you doing this, Rem? Is it because you're scum?

That sums it up quite nicely.

[Deltabacon]

But I'm not the cult leader.

[Deltabacon]

Of course, it's completely impossible to consider that AP's Jailkeep was misplaced N1, and that the cult No-culted N2. I'm starting to think that the cult are going to be on my wagon soon, if not already.
,
(Kid A, I'm looking at you.)

Ninja'd: AJ was unconvinced that I was the CL - I'd have thought that made it obvious that I wasn't the CL, and that the 2 culties running around right now were looking to bag an easy lynch and win D3. (today)

Ninja'd: Seriously starting to think AP is the apostle.

UNVOTE: Rem

[Deltabacon]

I think it's hilarious that everyone is taking AP's word as law. Am I the only one taking his claim with a pinch of salt? He claims to have jailkept me, that's it. It's completely unreasonable to believe that there was no recruit N1, and it's optimal for scum to No-cult N2 - to paint a fat-arse target on me.

Open your eyes, people.

Ninja'd: Well then he's merely a misguided townie. I'm convinced Kid A is the CL, but we want to find the Apostle ideally.

Ninja'd: You'd love that, wouldn't you, Kid A? Waste my vote so your partner can recruit another person tommorow without having to martyr you.

[Deltabacon]

And I just changed my read on the entirety of the game, so you can sod off with your 'super cautious' taunts.

[Deltabacon]

Oh hello D2 and early D3 read on Rem that I've dropped.

Seriously, it's not that hard to at least read my posts, thanks.

[Deltabacon]

I started to think it was AP. Now whilst you have disproven that, I see now that I was attacking Rem for the wrong reasons. Sure, he looked scummy to me yesterday, but his play didn't change much if at all from D1, whilst I looked at AP and saw a few differences.

[Deltabacon]

Right, what's the case against me - because so far all I see is AP's Jailkeep on me which proves nothing.

[Deltabacon]

Why am I the only person who would kill AJ? I'm seriously not seeing why I am the only person, whom if they were culted (I'm not) would want to kill AJ?

[Deltabacon]

TNE: Prove that no-one was recruited N1.

Everyone else, start scumhunting, not probability hunting.

[Deltabacon]

But since I'm not the CL, you should be looking for the apostle since the jail was misdirected N1.

[Deltabacon]

Stop trying to make people hunt for the CL.

VOTE: Kid A

[Deltabacon]

Only if you assume that they haven't culted. Stop trying to play the VI card, you're more competant than this and the fact the the Apostle can recruit now when the CL cannot has been mentioned a hundred times.

[Deltabacon]

It's literally impossible for anyone, even a VI to not know that we need to hunt for the apostle. KID A IS THAT APOSTLE since he is trying to deflect attention onto an overly popular theory that the CL is me. CL IS NOW A DEFUNCT ROLE compared to the apostle. Apostle can recruit whether or not the CL dies at this stage, so kid a is actively trying to waste a lynch.

SCUM. CAUGHT.

[Deltabacon]

Figuring out who he is ends up in an educated guess. The only way to be certain is to lynch the CL. If they've got sense, they'll have wifomed to fuck, and so 'finding the CL' right now is pointless, given that it gives us no clues about the Apostle's identity. By mentioning the CL constantly, Kid A is shifting people's attention away from the Apostle, with a limited amount of time left.

There is no town-aligned reason to try and interrupt people's tracking of the Apostle with pointless talk about the CL. Why havent we lynched Kid A yet?

[Deltabacon]

... No?

[Deltabacon]

It's literally impossible for anyone, even a VI to not know that we need to hunt for the apostle. KID A IS THAT APOSTLE since he is trying to deflect attention onto an overly popular theory that the CL is me. CL IS NOW A DEFUNCT ROLE compared to the apostle. Apostle can recruit whether or not the CL dies at this stage, so kid a is actively trying to waste a lynch.

SCUM. CAUGHT.

By mentioning the CL constantly, Kid A is shifting people's attention away from the Apostle, with a limited amount of time left.

There is no town-aligned reason to try and interrupt people's tracking of the Apostle with pointless talk about the CL. Why havent we lynched Kid A yet?

Why hasn't this happened yet?

[Deltabacon]

Even though I failed to mention either of your 'best choices' in either of those posts. Let's add forced scumhunting to that list of reasons why Kid A is Scum.

[Deltabacon]

Counters? Erm...

Yeah if you want to call them counters then you go right ahead mate.

[Deltabacon]

VOTE: Kid A

You should all feel bad for trying to mislynch me.

[Deltabacon]

Okay, so either GIF is drunk and is NL'ing because they're confused and inebriated, or is scum who has mistaken the number of players and the belief that NL'ing will result in 3 culties Nling for the win.

But no-one died last night. The apostle did not recruit again, otherwise the CL would have died.

UNVOTE: Kid A VOTE: GIF

[Deltabacon]

Wait stop UNVOTE: GIF

10 quid says that GIF is the CL who will die when we lynch tonight, allowing his apostle to recruit tonight for the win.

[Deltabacon]

Remembrance, tell me you're a recruit and not the CL.

How do you all know each other?

[Deltabacon]

Well done, you had me flummoxed all game. Thanks for victimizing me </3

[Deltabacon]

Yeah all you townies suck.

In unrelated news, I'm going to be less of a stubborn prick in future.