Whose Tit is Tat? (Mirco 24) : Game Over

[Fancy-Pants]

/vote N

Misreading. Mustbescum.

[Fancy-Pants]

Oh just a heads up- I think I'm on a different timezone to most of you guys, so you'll have to wait for my replies sometimes.

[Fancy-Pants]

No, this is my first time playing on this forum. Why?

I'm on GMT+2. Same as you, assuming your avatar info isn't lying.

[Fancy-Pants]

Oh. I see there's another FancyPants with the same avatar. Dammit :<

[Fancy-Pants]

Also Fancy-Pants, voting N is my line. Don't steal it.[/quote]

Are you saying that you don't want other people to vote for N?

[Fancy-Pants]

How do you distinguish pro-town/suspect votes from RVS ones this early in the game? I don't think anyone's vote has been particularly suspicious. Calling votes "opportunistic votes" this early in the game also seems a bit ambitious to me. At the same time, this is a small game, and it only takes 5 to lynch. I don't think 2 votes on someone in RVS is any cause for concern though.

[Fancy-Pants]

Nobody really brought up opportunistic as such. N was implying that the votes weren't opportunistic. Frog then asked whether he thought other votes were. I guess my statement about opportunistic votes was said to everyone in general, but I picked it up from Frog.

@Tochica: I don't really feel it's necessary to comment on it. I'm not an alt, and judging from the "obviously" in his post, he believes me or doesn't care either way. Pretty standard RVS to me.

[Fancy-Pants]

How is misreading a serious accusation? Intentionally misreading/misinterpreting I could see, but in this case it was just a silly mistake.

Your distinction of pro-town/scummy and RVS votes seems completely arbitrary. You could argue that other votes are suspect in the exact same way you did to mine. Eg pieceofpecanpie is accusing maestro of trying to cause confusion, numberQ is accusing me of smurfing. Both carry the same level of inherent scumminess as "misreading", which is not a whole lot at all.

[Fancy-Pants]

I think originally Fancy-Pants' vote might've been joking too, but he seems to have stuck with it and I guess it had a mediocre reason for being placed in the first place. I'd say we're out of RVS now so I guess it's not joking anymore.

Hmm? Nothing's changed about my vote. I'll change my vote when better reasons come along.

[Fancy-Pants]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most things in mafia pretty arbitrary? As I remarked earlier, Fancy's vote 'brushed me up the wrong way'; it should have been apparent that it was my

opinion

from the start. I had a go at explaining why in #58, but I don't seem to have done a good job.

Yes, there are some things that are arbitrary. Your reasoning for finding my vote suspect is fine, but the fact that you tried to objectively compare it to other votes to make it look scummy is odd.

@Tochica: I think you're trying to read too much into the votes. We're not completely out of RVS yet. There has been a lot of non-RVS discussion going on, which is a step in the right direction, but most of the votes are still all over the place for random reasons.

[Fancy-Pants]

Hmm. I don't think Frog finding my vote suspect is THAT scummy. It's been the focus of our discussion for awhile now and I think we should move onto other things. Putting a second vote on someone is hardly wagoning. The only thing that bothers me about him is the way he tried to compare votes for his reasoning.

@N: What has pecanpie been cooperative with?

[Fancy-Pants]

Lots of promises of content delivery, but nothing yet >.>

I'm interested in AI's response to pecanpie.

[Fancy-Pants]

Agent_Ireland's posts are worrying. The appeal to emotion is obviously cause for concern, especially the "Town is digging their own grave" part. That's really not a pro-town thing to say.

The town reads he has on me and N are also cause for concern. I agree with N when he says that there aren't any real reasons to have pro-town reads on us at this stage. There hasn't been a whole lot of content posted, and to make those kind of claims this early is troublesome. IF A_I is town, then I get the feeling that those are mostly gut reads and can be ignored at will. However, if he flips scum, those reads may be worth looking into.

At this stage, I'm tempted to say that A_I is worth a lynch. We still have a really long time to deadline though- a week longer than what I'm used to >.>

For now,

/unvote

[Fancy-Pants]

Yeah we need a response before the hammer. That said, he's looking pretty scummy to me.

[Fancy-Pants]

As defeatist as A_I has been, I'm really not keen to lynch a claimed role without decent reason and/or a counterclaim. It's still possible that he genuinely made a mistake. I would fight for lynching anyone overly keen to lynch him, but his self-vote makes things a bit difficult -.-

[Fancy-Pants]

There's no way we can lynch A_I without a counterclaim. If he is lying, there's no reason for the real backup to not CC.

A_I is scum and I don't think our real backup cop needs to claim.

This is ridiculously scummy. Granted, A_I was being terrible emotional and self-voted, but to want to lynch him without a counterclaim is silly.

[Fancy-Pants]

A few things—
1. If it's ridiculously scummy why the hell isn't there a vote in this post?
2. Do you not see the value in not outing our actual backup cop if it

is

incredibly obvious that A_I is scum?
3. Do you not see that I decided a while back that A_I is in fact not scummy enough for us assume scumhood (because play like this exists in many his games) and called for the claim?
4. Yiu do realize that his scumminess has less to to with his terrible self vote than with his terrible claim...right?

1. Should there be?
2. Obvious answer. The point it that it's not incredibly obvious, yet you seem to think so.
3. Yes, you changed your mind after the post I quoted. It doesn't change the fact that your initial reaction was to want to lynch him immediately.
4. Nope. His claim isn't terrible. There hasn't been a counterclaim, so we have to take it as true for now. There's no reason for the real backup (if there is one) not to counterclaim. Trading a PR for scum in any situation is usually in town's best interest, but added to that is the fact that it's a backup role.

[Fancy-Pants]

I changed my mind a while before you said anything I paid attention to.

Yes you should vote for people you find incredibly scummy.

Hum. I was expecting a bigger response. But anyway, it's not that I find you OMGSOSCUMMY. I was just pointing out that the post you made about wanting to lynch the claim was very scummy. There are other factors in play. Finding one post scummy doesn't necessitate a vote. We still have a long time to go until deadline- plenty of time for other evidence to pop up.

[Fancy-Pants]

@Frog: Why do you find N's intent to hammer so much scummier than Maestro's? Or even Psyche's wanting to lynch A_I without a CC for that matter?

It doesn't look like a CC is coming, unless it's Maestro who's away or something. We still have a lot of time left though, so there's no need to rush things.

[Fancy-Pants]

@Frog: Why do you find N's intent to hammer so much scummier than Maestro's? Or even Psyche's wanting to lynch A_I without a CC for that matter?

Answer this please.

[Fancy-Pants]

Frog is scum. The timing of his claim is all wrong. It makes no sense for him to claim when he's not even close to being lynched if he's our strongest PR. This, combined with his scummy play in the early stages of the game makes me almost certain he's scum. Don't think we need a CC.

/vote Frog

Klick's "plan" is suspicious in how obvious the flaw was. N is looking pro-town for the argument with Frog. Ank looks pro-town for his initial read on Frog, and the fact that he seemed to be the first oe to see the flaw in Klick's plan. A_I is town because of his claim.

This leaves:

pieceofpecanpie
Maestro
Klick
Psyche

Here my reasoning is less based on facts, but rather what I've interpreted.

Psyche is semi-town because of numberQ's initial play and his case on Frog. He looked a bit scummy for wanting to lynch A_I without a claim, but that's forgivable.

Maestro looks dodgy because of this post:

oh whoops, that should say town backup cop, not jailkeeper. I didn't see a point in waiting to claim until I was at L-1 when I was going to end up there anyway.

Sorry I haven't posted in awhile, and I'll be devoting time to the games where I'm inactive sometime tonight.
But jesus I hope this doesn't go unnoticed: fakeclaim much?!

CLAIM INTENT TO HAMMER PENDING REREAD

PoPP:

I thought numberQ was scummy, but since Psyche replaced in I've had a town-read on the slot, especially where he unvotes to prevent an early A_I hammer.
@Pieceofpecanpie: I don't think his conclusions are valid. Obviously I have nothing wrong with the question. A lot has happened since RVS and it doesn't disprove a good scumtell. I find it particularly distressing that he's trying to force me into a scumread on Psyche.
You shoudn't vote me because I've been scumhunting all game, I've been active, and I didn't want an early quickhammer. After A_I's claim I tried to defuse the situation and move on so we wouldn't make the mistake of lynching a power role. N, on the other hand, has offered little throughout the game, came close to hammering a power role, and I have completely disproved his case on me. Whilst you may consider my early game play odd, I was trying to provoke discussion and move us out of RVS, and I achieved both things.

@Above post: that's where my OMGUS accusation comes from. 'Other people' here means 'N' (I haven't critised anyone on the wagon, only him for his intent to hammer), so, in other words, 'If Frog hadn't called me scummy I wouldn't have thought anything of it'. here is also a simpler reason for my unvote: I don't want to lynch a Power Role.

@Popp: what do you think of N following his intent to hammer post?

Klick is a bit off because of his plan.

Out of these, the strongest scum reads are Maestro and PoPP. Psyche looks fairly strongly town, and Klick looks decent. I'm fairly confident one of the PoPP/Maestro is the other scum.

Of course, Frog is our first target.

[Fancy-Pants]

Hmm ok. I guess it does seem very hypocritical.

I'm CCing. I'm the jailkeeper. Frog is scum.

[Fancy-Pants]

I'll jailkeep PoPP.

[Fancy-Pants]

Well it seems fairly obvious. I blocked PoPP and there was no NK.

/vote PoPP

[Fancy-Pants]

Just to be sure- does the rolecop get a non-vanilla result if he targets a backup? The last scum is the backup jailkeeper.

I'll do Klick tonight.

[Fancy-Pants]

Woo go town.

[Fancy-Pants]

Don't push your votes so hard so early. Your RVS play made you look very suspicious, as you tried to make your vote on me seem justified when there had only been a few pages of posting. There wasn't a whole lot of activity going on until the more verbose people replaced in. This made your vote and justification the focus of town's attention, something you never really want as scum.

I also think your roleclaim was too early. Town are never going to risk an insta-hammer without very good reason. If you had waited until closer to deadline (and you were still in danger of being lynched) a claim is a lot more effective, as it gives very little time for CCs and counterarguments. You're almost guaranteed to survive at least that day. The timing of your claim gave me enough to time to counterclaim and point out why my claim was more realistic than yours.

You also took a bit of a gamble going after the people who wanted to lynch A_I after his claim. Someone was going to do it eventually. If you (as scum) do it, you risk drawing their anger, and making them do rereads on you.

That's just off the top of my head. I wasn't overly active this game. I find day one pretty boring, and there were other people to pick up the slack . The multiple replacement thing is still something I have to get used to, as well as the willingness of everyone to make excessively large posts early in the game