Micro 18: Train Station in Winter Normal Mafia (Game Over)

[ChannelDelibird]

VOTE: N

[ChannelDelibird]

UNVOTE: N

VOTE: Salamence

Way too forced.

[ChannelDelibird]

UNVOTE: N

VOTE: Salamence

Way too forced.

All my posts seem forced.

I wish I knew why.

Look, there's no easy way to say this: That looks really forced as well.

[ChannelDelibird]

Defensiveness is not a tell.

[ChannelDelibird]

5 - 3 = 2

[ChannelDelibird]

(Not that it would have been a big deal anyway.)

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, right, I didn't see the vote because of the massive tag. It made it look like you were trying to point out some insidious lynch-1 vote of mine that had gone under the radar.

Carry on.

[ChannelDelibird]

Er, one sentence follows another, DarkLight. McStab's post makes sense. He's saying that he would be able to tell if Salamence or PM were scum in this game, then says that PM isn't.

Also, Lynch-1 =/= premature lynch. If scum want to quickhammer, let them. We'll all know.

[ChannelDelibird]

@CD: your sentence is just wrong imo. I just removed my explanation of the situation because firstly let's let Stab answer it. anyway I don't like this post of yours much.

cool story bro

[ChannelDelibird]

Ugh.

UNVOTE: Salamence

Why would you even say that?

I don't know what to think now. Rereading.

[ChannelDelibird]

Nah, it's cool, don't feel you have to say anything about being massively anti-town.

[ChannelDelibird]

Blacklisted. Play to your fucking win condition.

[ChannelDelibird]

Rereading tonight and voting at the end of it.

[ChannelDelibird]

How is both of us being outraged by Salamence being a power-tool a connection? (Not to mention that, if anything, McStab using my wording is evidence of him trying to create a false one with me rather than a genuine indication of any kind)

[ChannelDelibird]

How is both of us being outraged by Salamence being a power-tool a connection? (Not to mention that, if anything, McStab using my wording is evidence of him trying to create a false one with me rather than a genuine indication of any kind)

Don't flatter yourself, I wouldn't bother trying to connect us by using your language. As far as I can tell, however, there isn't another word for "Blacklist" and unless I'm a poet there's really no need to use different language than "Sala played against his wincondition by self-hammering".

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Pretty much. Just illustrating my point.

Reread didn't tell me much apart from that McStab is town and DarkLight is scum.

VOTE: DarkLightA

Got all high-and-mighty on Day 1 when Sala was (RIGHTLY) racking up votes. Looks very much after the flip that he knew Sala was town and was setting himself up to say "I told you so, look how town I am for not falling for that wagon". His McStab vote is pretty terrible - it's not as if there had been any time to establish much suspicion on anyone else. Day 1 was Salamence's day alone, it's no surprise. He's just trying to ride the McWagon home on the back of that mislynch.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, hey, Mala came in while I was writing that. So it's Lynch-1. No unvote from me.

[ChannelDelibird]

Scum love dealing in absolutes.

[ChannelDelibird]

And yeah, congratulations PM for considering precisely zero of the permutations.

[ChannelDelibird]

Are you saying I'm *wagoning* on McStab? I actually was the *first* person to vote, if you'd care to read.

Semantics, not addressing the real point. Doesn't matter a jot if you're the first vote, you're trying to start the wagon.

Oh, hey, Mala came in while I was writing that. So it's Lynch-1. No unvote from me.

This is suspicious. Very suspicious, because of the anti-ninjaing system that's in place on the forum. Why would you read Mala's post, still post after all, and then add the additional post rather than amending your first one?

Because I couldn't be bothered to EBWOP? And I'm entirely comfortable with you being at Lynch-1.

[ChannelDelibird]

I was protecting DarkLight. My tracker was a 1-Shot so I knew it was get lucky and hit a bang or not. Since we're lynching DarkLight, I didn't want Town to make a mistake.

you have uncovered precisely zero information that affects the decision of whether or not to lynch him and have unnecessaily outed yourself. it sounds like this is a tendency of yours of which you should by now be aware and actively considering before you reveal yourself.

[ChannelDelibird]

YOU HAVE NOT PROVED THAT HE IS VANILLA

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm not scum. Were you expecting a different answer?

[ChannelDelibird]

Your case is that he's scum because he refused to participate in a wagon that ended up lynching town? The Mcstab vote isn't terrible, he was a proponent of it while I was V/LA yesterday, so he's not riding anything.

Putting my case as "he did not participate in the wagon on town therefore he is scum" is misrepresentative. I am voting him because, as I explained, his holier-than-thou I-can't-believe-this-guy-is-on-Lynch-Minus-One despite the fact that the wagon was absolutely the right thing to be happening looks feigned for the purpose of getting towncredit.

His initial suspicion of McStab on Day 1 was based on misreading - if it is still part of his case, I'd like to know, because that just makes him more scummy. It was a failure of reading comprehension and no more. The serious part of the vote is today and that's the behaviour of him riding the circumstances.

Mala, your case in 104 is just as bad. We're coming out of a 4 page D1 lynch where town quickhammered himself. So how could you POSSIBLY fault someone for not voting in their first D2 post before hardly anyone had posted? Especially since, again,

DarkLightA WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO SUSPECT MCSTAB

.
edit - after reading all the recent posts I see that DarkLight has already made this defense. CDB, yours and Mala's "cases" depend on this. How can you possibly dismiss it as not addressing the real point?

Again: I am saying "riding the wagon" because he is trying to build a wagon out of uncontextualised circumstance (operating on the fallacious absolute that a speedy Day 1 wagon and/or lynch is always a bad thing). That he is the first person to make the case does not invalidate mine. I am not making an argument out of his

position

on the wagon. I am arguing against its convenient nature.

concerning PM, I think there's enough reason to merit leaving Darklight out of the lynch pool for today.

Apologies, but that's boneheadedly definite.

[ChannelDelibird]

from post 116: "Because I couldn't be bothered to EBWOP? And I'm entirely comfortable with you being at Lynch-1." really? and what happened if you was hammering in that post???

Uh... that... would... have... been... different?

[ChannelDelibird]

Pacman's not as good a vote as DarkLight.

[ChannelDelibird]

Could be two goons. Or it's godfather plus goon and DarkLight could be either. Or it's goon plus mafia power and DarkLight is the goon. Or mafia did not or cannot kill/act and there's a serial killer. We have eliminated precisely no possibilities and DarkLight is the scummiest player.

[ChannelDelibird]

Doesn't stop him being the sole goon at all.

Evilpacman is also not as explicitly scummy as DarkLight.

[ChannelDelibird]

Pretty simple - Godfathers can kill just the same as any goon. He could be either one of a Godfather + Goon pairing, or one of a Goon pairing, or part of a scumteam who could not or would not kill last night. I don't see any reason to exclude him from the lynch pool or prioritise others based on PM's results.

[ChannelDelibird]

@CDB: you said that you did not ebwop..so you wuldn't notice if your post was a hammer at all..

I noticed his vote in the preview, I just didn't edit my post before hitting submit as a result, doing so afterwards instead. I wasn't saying that I was blind to Mala's vote. I just made two posts instead of one.

SK cannot work, since he wouldn't stay at home; sole goon cannot work as wel since there has been a kill and once again, no sane mafia would stay at home.

You've misunderstood. By SK, I was speculating that it could be possible for there to be an SK/other killing role in this game to explain the death of N while DarkLight's scumgroup may or may not have been able or willing to kill. I wasn't speculating that DarkLight IS a Serial Killer. Merely that the possiblity of one in the setup gives another reason why PM's result changes nothing about his lynch viability. By sole goon, I meant the sole goon in a scumgroup containing one goon and one godfather.

since we have a JOAT, who used TRACK, it means that the JOAT did not cop(there really is no reason to track in a micro game when you can cop) so I'm assuming that the JOAT cannot cop. that means that a godfather wouldn't work. but..that would mean DL is a goon, who has not shot the kill - meaning that the other one has shot it, so it is two goons, against a JOAT - which looks unbalanced to me(although I'm not quite agood setup-spec-er).

Faulty assumption - I've seen JOATs who can both track and investigate.

PM/DLA scumteam possible, or any two from {PM, Epm, Mala}.
Since we're not in lylo, if I controlled the lynches alone then, it would be EPM/mala for today(because we're not lynching a claimed JOAT and DLA can't be scum without PM). if we lynched a goon, wonderful, and tomorrow we lynch the other and if we fail then PM for the win; if we miss, and PM is not scum, then he will probably be NKed, which will give us..just one left? which is not quite possible..so it's either PM with someone or we lynch a mafia.

Didn't you just criticise McStab for lining up lynches in exactly the same post as you said this?

[ChannelDelibird]

I presume I'm Bird.

[ChannelDelibird]

Did you really need to quote that entire post for that?

[ChannelDelibird]

about daytalk:

MOD: can you tell us if mafia have daytalk?

This really rubs me the wrong way.

Why? Gets asked every game.

@Channel: Well, I was to lazy to delete most of it. So I decided to bold what I was going to answer.

Well, massive unnecessary quote walls are annoying. You didn't even need any of it. [/bugbear]

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote

Well that fucks all kind of shit up. Rrrrreevaluatin'.

[ChannelDelibird]

If we're in LyLo, I'm suing gorckat. Two-shot cop and trackdoc JOAT versus two scum of some kind is a pretty good setup so I'm trusting PM and Pacman. DarkLight still feels awful scummy to me but, although he could still be a godfather, he's definitely off the table today. I haven't got time to reevaulate properly tonight - I'll come back with what I think is the best next move tomorrow.

[ChannelDelibird]

VOTE: DarkLightA

I think Mala's probably his goon.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mala put only token pressure on DarkLight and has mostly been offering small snapshots of things that are either uncontroversial or irrelevant to scumhunting (speculating about LyLo, pulling you up on your language about "am I supposed to claim", that sort of thing).

That's my operating theory, but DarkLight needs to die.

[ChannelDelibird]

Clarification instead of contribution is scummy.

[ChannelDelibird]

A shos lynch would be a shitty compromise. Nobody wants that.

[ChannelDelibird]

It must be shos and Malafather. Really can't see Pacman or PM as scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

VOTE: shos

[ChannelDelibird]

I don't even know what a fucking godfather is, how the hell would I be it?

Oh, well I'm convinced

[ChannelDelibird]

distancing much?..

From who? How? To what end?

[ChannelDelibird]

I don't even know what a fucking godfather is, how the hell would I be it?

Oh, well I'm convinced

Me too. Also you're being very fatalistic. I assumed you'd try.

PM and shos need to post before a hammer.

Did you expect a wall of text? My viewpoint today is the logical conclusion of everything that's come before.

[ChannelDelibird]

From you because you are probably partners with Shos.
You said I was supposedly scum, but you voted Shos?

Yes, because POE says both you and shos are scum but you've got an innocent investigation on you so I figured it would probably be best to lynch the guy who doesn't have that backing him first.

[ChannelDelibird]

I know that you've got to say POE points to me and shos, but why are you using that as a reason to act surprised that my POE is somehow wrong?

[ChannelDelibird]

EBWOP: "to act as if my POE..."

[ChannelDelibird]

You're trying to act confused at my vote when it's blatantly the most sensible thing for me to be doing.

[ChannelDelibird]

I see shos is pretending to entertain the possibility of pacman/PM as scum to look town by taking his time when others are not. HOKAY THEN

[ChannelDelibird]

I see shos is pretending to entertain the possibility of pacman/PM as scum to look town by taking his time when others are not. HOKAY THEN

what the fuck? pretending to entertain the possibilit? what does that even mean? I'm reading one by one, hold your horses with the votes, I'm town, even if you think I'm scum give me your fuckin case and I'll defy it

You seriously think there's a chance PM might have faked his claim? Pish.

[ChannelDelibird]

I skipped it because walls are anti-fun.

[ChannelDelibird]

VOTE: Mala

OMGUS

OH HEY LOOK WHO SHOS' FIRST VOTE WAS ON

[ChannelDelibird]

Shos try figuring out PM's meta for yourself rather than asking for it.

OH HEY LOOK WHO'S COACHING

[ChannelDelibird]

UNVOTE: shos
VOTE: ChannelDelibird

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh. Wow. I thought we were completely boned. Nice one, shos!

[ChannelDelibird]

To complete a thought I started on the Dead Thread but wanted to wait until the end of the game to finish: I like the setup's intention and philosophy very much but the potential for the entire scumteam to be caught in one night by investigative roles makes me a little uncomfortable.

I thoroughly enjoyed playing in this game, though! Thanks gorckat for modding - I enjoyed the flavour throughout!

[ChannelDelibird]

YOU FREAKING JERK! I KNEW IT WAS YOU ALL FREAKING ALONG!

And this is why we take our time in 3p LyLo.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also, shos posted the Mafia QT link one letter short: here it is.

Our entire gameplan rested on Pacman explicitly not investigating Mala the night before my lynch. Thought that and my Framer flip had destroyed us.

[ChannelDelibird]

I did read along - your exploitation of the previous game's QT was superb, by the way.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh yeah, shos, by the way - next time, wait until the mod's resolved the lynch and announced the result to post the mafia QT.

[ChannelDelibird]

I said I was town, so many times. So many times.

I know you

were

town, but that doesn't mean that saying it a bunch of times is going to convince anyone.

[ChannelDelibird]

Meh.

Bad town was bad.

GG.

This from the self-hammering townie