Micro 4 - Double Day Unlimited (Over)

[IceGuy]

VOTE: Fate

[IceGuy]

UNVOTE: Fate

I hereby call an end to RVS. I expect you to remove all RVS votes in the next post. No excuses.

More content from me when this has occurred.

[IceGuy]

IceGuy (#47)

- Gonna need a reason why it's necessary to declare the entire game out of RVS now.

It got me a buttload of reactions.

N, Yos, OmNom lean scum. Fate, Jarvis lean town. Rest is null.

VOTE: N

[IceGuy]

What Jarvis said.

[IceGuy]

Oh, really. Reactions, huh? What kind of reactions? Do you just not like that I'm voting you?

No. I do not like that you're playing in a scummy way.

[IceGuy]

Currently, I do not see a reason to explain more.

[IceGuy]

That escalated quickly.

Would you tell me why my L-1 vote on N was "sneaky"?

[IceGuy]

You mean just like every L-1 vote we have seen so far?

[IceGuy]

Where should I get at?

[IceGuy]

Nah, I don't feel like it.

[IceGuy]

Why not?

[IceGuy]

I was sleeping. I'm in Europe, you know.

[IceGuy]

Okay, experiment over.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jarvis

Here are some (honest) reads:

ABR and OmNom are leaning town.

N is leaning scum. When I declared RVS over, he immediately followed my "order" in #48 - a weak scumtell (conformity to avoid attacks).

Jarvis is scum. #25, #28, #40, #56 are a good example of how to simulate scumhunting: You don't look for scummy things, you decide on an easy target (in that case, OmNom and UberNinja as people who often get lynched early and N as a newbie), take something they do that's actually innocuous (voting everybody and saying "scum is in there" is not a scumslip, just as not having scumreads in a game with mostly random stuff happening by the start of page 2 isn't).

And of course he immediately switched to me when he noticed I was at L-1 and could probably get away with a hammer. I've already said why the "sneaky" L-1 vote wasn't "sneaky" - L-1 wasn't declared in this game before and my L-1 vote wasn't the first. The rest is basically pointless back-and-forth.

Yos is leaning scum. Early (#14, #20, #34) he's being the "helpful guy": No real opinions on anything in the game, but doing stuff that lets him appear in a good light. Later he attacks me on basically the same pretenses as Jarvis.

The rest is null or unreadable (Fate, I'm looking at you).

[IceGuy]

UNVOTE: N

[IceGuy]

Oh wait, I have several votes.

VOTE: N
VOTE: Yosarian2

[IceGuy]

I plan on hammering IceGuy as soon as we get a replacement for UN.

Well, I guess you do not like your mislynch floating away.

Because look at this. ANOTHER EXPERIMENT LOLOLOL

Please explain the purpose and method of this grand experiment.

Method: Behaving in an extremely non-useful yet clearly non-scummy way.
Purpose: Catching people like you trying to get a mislynch through instead of scumhunting.

Yep, still need to explain your reads.

Not explaining town reads unless absolutely necessary. Explaining town reads gives scum clues how to behave in a towny way.

I've never played with Om before - at least not to my memory, which I'm pretty confident in.

Which is irrelevant. I think I've already played with OmNom but it's not easy to miss his reputation if you're often around the site.

Also lol you're trying to say I attacked UN. I asked him

one question

. All of that is just a narrative anyway; "you're not attacking them because you think they're scum, you're attacking them because they're easy to lynch". Do you actually have anything to support that, or is it just "look at these posts, he's doing this"?

Nice spin. I have your posts to support that.

And yeah, please do explain to me the town motive for self-voting in RVS. Because that's what I'm not seeing, and what I've questioned.

Explain to me the scum motive for voting every player including oneself in RVS.

Also lol you're voting N too.

Yes, but for a different reason. Having unlimited votes means voting every scumread instead of just the top one. Why are you not voting N (any more)?

I don't recall ever saying it was a scumslip. What I don't see, as mentioned above, is why town would self-vote there. Perhaps you could enlighten me, seeing as you're so sure it isn't indicative at all.

It's not indicative of alignment. Period. You blowing it up as something that could be relevant at all is not towny behavior.

Again the narrative bullshit. I declared intent to hammer because you were refusing to explain yourself  and stalling to high hell.

Explain what the scum motivation behind that would've been. I've explained the town motivation behind it; you've failed to explain the scum motivation.

AND WHAT'S THIS? "My silent L-1 vote wasn't so because two people did it before". How the fuck is this town behaviour?

Why is it not town behavior to vote scum? Do you think every L-1 vote needs a big, fat "L-1" for idiots who can't read VCs, especially in a game where there are a lot of L-1s (as of now, there are three players on L-1)?

Explain this to me, IceGuy. Why were you happy to sit around and stall while someone you apparently had such a confident scumread on threatened to hammer?

Your continued reaction to my experiment only made me confident in my scum read.

And why exactly it took you five hours to come in and post that.

I posted the first post in the morning right after getting up and revisited it later, thinking I should probably not play this any longer or I'd really get lynched.

Oh, and of course why you felt it was unnecessary to announce your L-1 vote this time?

Why do you feel is it necessary to announce L-1 votes?

Also, you attacking OmNom is a continuation of your opportunistic behavior.

[IceGuy]

Om and IceGuy are today's lynches thank you goodnight.

Still trying to get your mislynches through, I see.

Clearly non-scummy? Yeah, please do elaborate on that one for me. I'm really not seeing it.

Why wouldn't scum have simply answered the questions/responded to the pressure and ended the whole back-and-forth?

Bolded for importance.

Any scum with the slightest idea about how to win at mafia knows how too "behave in a towny way". They don't need clues. So explain.

No. You either have no clue how mafia works or you're scum. My bet is on the latter.

Do you see me often around the site?

Often enough to possibly know about OmNom's reputation.

But yeah, go on, get those posts and support it.

I already mentioned them above.

Avoids taking a stance on any single player. Thus avoids being held accountable for anything, and avoids attracting anyone's attention in particular.

Nobody takes a stance in RVS, that's why it's RVS. RVS-based reasoning is generally shitty. Try again.

"I like N a whole lot more given these recent posts. Like way more. There's still stuff that needs addressing by him though."

So what you're trying to say is, "The most likely mislynches for today are you and OmNom, not N, so I'm dropping it quietly for now and will return to it tomorrow."

I'd have thought it was obvious. You know, you've pulled a bunch of reads out of your arse and can't explain them. Or you're just trying to look town. Or you found yourself at L-1 with intent to hammer declared and REACTION TEST was your only realistic way out.

See above: Why would I have even let it come to this if I was scum?

I don't know, since when was it necessary to explain why scum do what they do?

Since the game of Mafia was invented. Or are you claiming that you aren't actually interested in the alignment of players and are just looking for things that you can spin as scummy?

It's not town behaviour to respond to questions with "I didn't do it because these other people didn't either". There is no way that comes from a town mouth.

Of course that's relevant - somebody else does it, you say nothing, your designated mislynch does it, you claim it's definitely scummy behavior. That's something that needs to be called out.

The unlimited voting has the side effect of making votes a hell of a lot harder to keep track of. Not being someone who likes accidental quickhammers, I'd prefer it if we avoided that possibility. It's not like it's hard to do - unless you're

an idiot who can't read vote counts

.

So why didn't you request L-1 announcements in your first post if they are so important for you?

At which point, then, were you sure about your scum read? And why did you continue then?

Because your explanation of your scumread suggests you were pretty sure I was scum before you even began your 'experiment'.

I wasn't sure - I had a suspicion. The back-and-forth made me sure.

You didn't worry that from the very start? You know, after I declared intent to hammer?

No, because I didn't think you'd like to draw the heat that comes with a hammer that early.

Why didn't you post it earlier - nothing changed between your two posts...?

Reading comprehension fail.

Oh it's for opportunism now is it? Because well... That's pretty opportunistic of you, seeing as there's at least one other player you could

easily

fit this description to.

You are on the two most opportunistic lynches today. What's your point?

Yeah, agreed.

vote:om[/n]

Scum = iceguy and om

That whole "ok experiment over" thing iceguy did was bullshit as well

No content from you? Just sheeping Jarvis?

[IceGuy]

You asked me this before.

"I'd have thought it was obvious. You know, you've pulled a bunch of reads out of your arse and can't explain them. Or you're just trying to look town. Or you found yourself at L-1 with intent to hammer declared and REACTION TEST was your only realistic way out.

I don't know, since when was it necessary to explain why scum do what they do? That just opens the door to all sorts of shitty narrative-based reasoning."

This is not an answer.

LOL I HAVE NO CLUE HOW MAFIA WORKS?

No, you're scum.

Any scum with the first fucking clue about this game knows they have to act town. Any scum with the first fucking clue about this game knows how to act town. THEY DO NOT NEED TO BE TOLD THIS.

If scum knows how to act town, why do we do this whole scumhunting stuff? If that would be the case, town and scum would be indistinguishable.

Um no. You said "oh these postsare scummy because he did this". Go get those posts and actually support it with reference to their content, rather than bullshit generalised statements.

I already did this. There is no point in quoting the post in full and saying "this is where he pushed OmNom and N" instead of just referencing the post number.

RVS has to have meaning because at some point the town has to get out of it, which requires reads. Posts such as those discussed give no information and so impair the town's ability to move out of RVS and do something useful.

RVS-based reasoning is generally shitty. Try again.

Nope. "Hey he just did something scummy, but I don't know why he did it as scum." No. That just introduces massive amounts of WIFOM into your scumhunting.

So what you're saying is that there is no point to look at motivations?

That you'd happily lynch a player where you know it made no sense to act as he did as scum just because he dropped something you generally consider a scumtell?

Don't even fucking go there. I questioned it each time.

Quotes please.

And hey, I don't even remember calling it scummy at all. All I did was ask for further explanation. Looking a bit self-conscious there, aren't you?

So what you're saying is that:

Intent to hammer.

There's a reason for you. Add the sneaky L-1 vote on N to your list of things to elaborate on too.

does not mean the L-1 vote was a scumtell for you?

I assumed people would be kind enough to add a little "oh, by the way, that's L-1, so don't accidentally hammer". You know, as is good town play. You are making this into something it isn't. Answer the original question and quit this extended dodge.

This isn't "good town play" or even "default town play".

What about it?

The fact that you kept pushing me although it was obvious that no scum would do what I did.

Oh look the narratives again. This implies you were pretty damn sure I was scum.

No. I was already suspicious of you, though, as I said before.

Nope. What changed between those two posts that made you suddenly feel you were so much more likely to get lynched?

Reading comprehension fail.

"Somebody else does it, you say nothing, your designated mislynch does it, you claim it's definitely scummy behavior. That's something that needs to be called out."

What do you mean?

[IceGuy]

Congratulations, you stupid fucks. You lynched town. Don't forget to lynch Jarvis next, followed by Yos2 and N on Day 2. Bye.

[IceGuy]

So I died in vain.

Seriously though, I'd probably have voted N over Maestro over Mehdi. GG scum.