Micro 1079 - dividing connor (game over)

[Aureal]

The vibe I'm getting from the hoods was that small hood was planned and then big hood was made from whatever else was left. I don't think Aureal is big hood scum because in that case why not just go all in with a yessiree/Python/Aureal hood?

-A

I would never set up the three of us in small hood here. Because that would mean the imminent demise of Team Sno-Cone. And that would be sad.

Ugh, I have to actually solve you again. VOTE: usesPython

[Aureal]

Not true, you can sort Invisible as scum instead

-A

Finding that Invis is scum would also solve you! But I don't see them posting.

So tell me, did you notice that Pooky was the big hood elimination in both those games where town won by flipping him?

[Aureal]

who is connor

everyone always asks "who is connor" but nobody ever asks "how is connor" and i wont stand for this

I think Connor's status is pretty clearly divided.

[Aureal]

really? why don't you think id do that?

Then you kinda started lurking a bit and let town cannibalize themselves, if you put me us the small hood and didn't predict me POEing Invisibility as the small hood scum you'd have to be able to deal with a possible early 1v1 with me and I'm not sure you'd want to deal with that.

-A

tbf I did kinda encourage yes to keep it low-key rather than stir the game up again and possibly get us more attention. And I'm really not too sure how you get the idea that he would expect a big active 1v1 from you because of what he expected your towngame to be before finding out it was your scumgame. Obviously he probably won't expect you to lurk as town after seeing how hyper-posty you were there, but that's just a you in general thing not you as town.

[Aureal]

So tell me, did you notice that Pooky was the big hood elimination in both those games where town won by flipping him?

I did! Only read Micro 1062 but in that game the small hood scum was pretty much immediately outed and Pooky was a lowposting consensus lim. Also thanks for accidentally reminding me about something that was mentioned in the scum chat in that game, if there's small hood off wagon then don't put people at E-1 if you're not willing to accept the possibility that off-wagon small hood scum quickhammer

-A

Hmmmmmmm. I did go and read some of that game now, I'll have to think about the matter some more. There's no Pooky in this game.

[Aureal]

half-tinfoil mode: this was a placeholder hood and both scum forgot to submit actual hoods due to sudden irl happenings

-A

Huh. This is weird. I... don't think the mod would handle unsubmitted hoods like this though. For one, the list would already have to be ordered in a way where the scum are split apart properly, not both in the bottom five or top three.

[Aureal]

Yeah, but those wouldn't be valid hood picks at all if the scum weren't distributed appropriately between them.

[Aureal]

Invis was the first one to notice that the hoods were in list order, right? You didn't notice it until then?

[Aureal]

Nope, I was running under the assumption that scum would do the fun thing and pick hoods instead of letting it rand

-A

In 45 you said they made it obvious, though. I guess it wasn't actually that obvious?

I feel like I missed RVS already

boring! But we should still lim in the small neighborhood probably cuz better odds

Seems right to me, randomized or not there's still one scum per hood.
VOTE: yesiree I don't like that you sheeped python with the vote on invisibility.

Why don't you like it?

Ugh, I have to actually solve you again. VOTE: usesPython

Was this vote random or not?

Not.

[Aureal]

And yet despite it being so obvious, nobody mentioned it until Invisibility did. It was clearly intentional, so I'm left to ponder whether scum wanted to take a certain approach to that fact.

[Aureal]

How does sheeping someone's vote discredit the person being voted?

[Aureal]

Okay, this might be a bit weak but I townread Python bc the hoods are random. Having done a game with them I honestly can't imagine them not optimizing the perfect groups.

Or what if the point was for the partner to pop up with a townread because Python wouldn't not optimize?

Seriously though, reasonable point, but what if the ordered player list already was optimized for what they wanted?

I'm guessing that would make the partner someone reasonably experienced or at the least confident, since they'd be expected to have to carry endgame. So I guess not you.

[Aureal]

Okay, this might be a bit weak but I townread Python bc the hoods are random. Having done a game with them I honestly can't imagine them not optimizing the perfect groups.

Or what if the point was for the partner to pop up with a townread because Python wouldn't not optimize?

Seriously though, reasonable point, but what if the ordered player list already was optimized for what they wanted?

I'm guessing that would make the partner someone reasonably experienced or at the least confident, since they'd be expected to have to carry endgame. So I guess not you.

ok but have you considered the fact that I'd put myself in the big hood to keep my 0% lim rate?

-A

Yup. And I'm not at all surprised to see you in the small one.

I'm getting bored with my vote. Let's go vote... Um... VOTE: SirCakez

[Aureal]

Aureal why did you vote me?

I didn't do RVS on small hood and it seemed a fine time to move on, so I decided to go back to it for big hood.

Also you broke up the collaborative storytelling before I got the chance to contribute. ._.

[Aureal]

I am sure someday, after the game, this will all make sense.

Okay, no, I'm still not sure.

[Aureal]

I am sure someday, after the game, this will all make sense.

Okay, no, I'm still not sure.

The small hood chat is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural

-A

Oh. Now I get it.

You're trying to make us jealous of your exclusive positioning.

Not falling for it.

[Aureal]

Oh. Now I get it.

You're trying to make us jealous of your exclusive positioning.

Not falling for it.

Hey how many posts in the big hood so far? We're already at 83 between the three of us

-A

There's... Um...

I'll get back to you. >_>

[Aureal]

isn't it auto if we get scum right in the big hood D1?

i think big hood people should post more

Activity overview > Save The Dragons
Posts: 7



VOTE: Save The Dragons

[Aureal]

Oh, got it. I see you didn't learn anything since the plan didn't go through, but did it give you any insights as to who you think is scum in the little hood?

From Operation: Wagon? No. From yessiree's unvote on you with the reasoning of "not wanting to end the day with a lolhammer because some of the big hood players haven't fully gotten into the game" when before that he said "someone hammer this before Invis gets back LOL" (all in hood chat) feels scummy af

Oh, that was an e-1 vote on Merlyn. Didn't notice that. It was there for an hour with no posts between yessiree voting then unvoting.

What exactly do you find scummy in that?

[Aureal]

That's a weird reason to vote me

Hey, it got you to post! Cool!

Now you can reply to this and get another post!

[Aureal]

You don't think "everyone kinda scummy" is easy for scum to fake?

-A

Not particularly easy, no

Wow, I must hang out in the wrong crowds. I've been scumread for that multiple times in games where I just couldn't not find scummy things about everyone.

[Aureal]

Well great, now how are we supposed to entertain the dogs?

[Aureal]

Wait.

That's what happened to Connor.

Oh. Oh no.

[Aureal]

Can someone translate Flavor Leaf for me? I think he might be speaking Mafia and I don't understand that language.

[Aureal]

Can someone translate Flavor Leaf for me? I think he might be speaking Mafia and I don't understand that language.

He is BASED, let him cook, we bing chilling

I'll read later no cap

Oh no, not you too.

[Aureal]

I could be dead wrong, but I like to thought spew what I'm feeling for transparency/the chance I'm correct.

And with Python, i don't get the correlation to the skill level of Aureal's scum game. I guess it's possible, but I don't think it's more likely than not. You're almost implying the opposite, one scum game and they're unable to talk otherwise, which I also don't think is true. I get what you're saying, though, so I guess I do see a little correlation, but still.

I replaced out d1 and still had 3x the posts that people who endgamed did and was also the primary wagon that day, when yessiree replaced into my slot she basically went radio silent on him other than responding to his intro post

-A

Is this a reaction test to see if I come complain about this misrep of my scum game? Consider a complaint lodged.

[Aureal]

Is this a reaction test to see if I come complain about this misrep of my scum game? Consider a complaint lodged.

It's a factual statement, the only times you commented on him were when responding to his intro post and an off-handed mention to Oclax that you're fine with his lim

-A

You were reading the Mafia pt; you know that we were ready to keep distancing before seeing that it'd be better to match the town's gamestate of "we are so done with this shit so let's just flash wagon people."

[Aureal]

Is this a reaction test to see if I come complain about this misrep of my scum game? Consider a complaint lodged.

It's a factual statement, the only times you commented on him were when responding to his intro post and an off-handed mention to Oclax that you're fine with his lim

-A

You were reading the Mafia pt; you know that we were ready to keep distancing before seeing that it'd be better to match the town's gamestate of "we are so done with this shit so let's just flash wagon people."

I don't remember reading that in the PT and on a re-read I'm not seeing any post like that, can you point it out if I'm being blind?

-A

I talk about sussing yes for not reading in 98 but only weakly followed through with slight shade because it didn't seem to match thread state. Then nix yes wanting to sr me in 118/119.

[Aureal]

There is no other post that they could be talking about that convinced them, I don't see how they come to that conclusion from my posts

I'm pretty sure the "convincing" you did was not actually your argument, it was convincing him more of his read that we're partners.

I think Flavor's the strongest contender for big hood scum

I actually agree with that, because his posts have made like negative sense to me, and I thought BurgerParty might be more likely to just let the hoods stay in order due to not knowing anyone. I've gotta actually sit down and try to figure out what Flavor is talking about before I get too convinced on that, though; I just haven't had the time or energy these last few days to follow closely. It reads like he thinks the rest of big hood is trying to sort big hood and not me? Even though I was actually like the first one to decide small hood had been getting all the attention and shifted my focus to the blank slates in big hood? Very confused.

[Aureal]

i find StD's logic there scummy because its a disconnect. he asks the big hood to post more but barely posts anything of substance himself. it makes me think he's just trying to score town points.

I don't think big hood scum is a lurker slot, at the end of the day scum can't win unless big hood scum endgames

-A

BurgerParty was a lurker slot though.

[Aureal]

the thoughts flowing from cakez mostly feel authentic, i think scum!cakez would be more selective and filtered in what he posts, and i dont think cakez would hold the position "all 3 small hood are scummy" as scum, especially given the timing of it, when most big hood players are not doing much, having that position would be stick out like a sore thumb but he did it anyway

I really don't get how "all these players are scummy" is a hard thing to say or sticks out?

[Aureal]

I'm trying to do some re-reading so excuse me if I bring up some old stuff here.

The vibe I'm getting from the hoods was that small hood was planned and then big hood was made from whatever else was left. I don't think Aureal is big hood scum because in that case why not just go all in with a yessiree/Python/Aureal hood?

-A

I would never set up the three of us in small hood here. Because that would mean the imminent demise of Team Sno-Cone. And that would be sad.

Ugh, I have to actually solve you again. VOTE: usesPython

Are you trying to play against ur scum meta by not being conservative with ur vote?

I kinda glazed over this before because I didn't understand what you're getting at here. What

are

you trying to get at here? I don't think I have a lot about me that is meta-readable, let alone scum meta.

[Aureal]

UNVOTE: yessiree
VOTE: Invisibility

Hood related stuff

Just tell us what you mean don't say hood stuff this is pointless in a tiny game like this

We were being vague because the plan was to have all three of us co-ordinate to wagon people for reactions and I wasn't sure if that was still on when I made that post. Reason why Invis was scummy there was because after we all agreed to do it (Posts after 111 happened after the initial suggestion) yessiree and I agreed on a Dan wagon (124 was the first post after that) and then Invis started posting in the main thread without commenting in the hood with a or on the wagon target and that just made it look like they were waiting for their partner to come online before they gave the go ahead

-A

Okay... so if I'm following this correctly, in the hood you and yes were going to wagon Dan and waited for Invis to check in. And then Invis voted Merlyn without commenting on that. So you two decided that plan had fallen through, gave hints in the game that something was going on, then decided to vote Merlyn with Invis as well (bringing her to an unannounced e-1 for an hour)? What sort of reactions could you possibly expect to get at that point?

[Aureal]

python, I can't tell if you're pretending or you are genuinely unable to tell that one is clearly a joke and the one is serious?

I doubt you lack the ability to read the tone there

You expect me to believe town!yessiree put Merlyn at E-1 unannounced for over an hour as a joke?

-A

Well. You expect me to believe scum yessiree points out to you that Merlyn is now E-1, if he's truly doing it hoping for a lolhammer?

[Aureal]

especially when they just said they weren't gonna be serious posting right before making that vote

well I was gonna reread later and then I just felt like rereading then instead

what's weird about posting seriousness before I said I would like I would get it if I promised something and never delivered but like you got an advance of the Vizzy brainsmarts. That's like a better deal right

Two sides of the same coin really, so there's not much relevance of one side being better or worse than the other

not going up on promises is scummy though cuz you're actively avoiding playing like if you can't actually drum up a response in the timeframe. I fail to see how this is true for being early lol I think that's NAI

B being worse than C doesn't make C not bad, partner I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

Is this seriously yes trying to shade Invis because Invis said she was going to re-read later, then did it promptly? Because that's what I'm getting out of it, and it's pretty ridiculous.

[Aureal]

wait wait so are you saying it's unlikely Cakez faked posts to mindmeld with you?

It would be rather difficult unless he was psychic. But yes that is my premise.

lol what

Not sure why this is confusing to Invis. I know people go off and have more conversation about this later and it baffles me because it seems pretty obvious that someone cannot copy the thoughts of another person before the other person tells them what those thoughts are. This is a reasonably common way to townread people I think, and one that I use myself at times (sometimes even intentionally holding back thoughts to see if others think the same way).

[Aureal]

i think it boils down to 3 points

one is that "it's a solution looking for a problem" - it feels like you decided sircakez is town first and then found something by which to townread him rather than the other way around, so it doesn't feel like you arrived at the conclusion organically

two is you're not giving anything concrete to the rest of the players to discern the validity of it, you're just saying sircakez is mirroring your thoughts that can't be faked so he's town

three is you're doing it in a way that's making it more about spewing urself town rather than focusing on the read itself

I don't agree with any of this but the second point, but I don't see it as a problem and certainly not scummy like apparently yes does? It's just a townread that isn't going to be very convincing to other people.

[Aureal]

VOTE: ActionDan

yeah this is the scummiest player right now for that terrible read

And Invis comes in to vote based off this nonsense? What even is this.

[Aureal]

why is AD's read terrible?

it's so weak cuz the read is based off the idea that Cakez would be difficult to fake a mindmeld with AD, which is true, but since AD didn't share these ideas beforehand that the only way Cakez would be able to fake this would be if he could read minds. Maybe terrible is too strong a word, but it's very very weird to me that he would even mention the unlikelihood of Cakez faking mindmeldable stuff as a townread reason cuz it's so beyond the realm of possibility that it's not even worth mentioning. Is the read otherwise much different than a regular mindmeld read? Not really! But the weird logic used makes me suspicious.

WTF is this paragraph? Invis and yes were the ones who were having the issue with understanding that Cakez would have to be psychic to post what Dan was thinking but hadn't said. There's no weird logic in it at all.

[Aureal]

Merlyn vote on Yessiree is a momentum shifting vote. Wanting to note it because it clashes with where I was here, but it was their entrance really, so not overly scummy, but worth noting.

Momentum shifting? I have a hard time feeling like anything that early can really have momentum.

Both Invisibility and Python are subtly controlling this game. On the surface, it looks like Invisibility, but I can see it being Python just letting it flow, but their change onto Yess was an action that I didn't like at all. If the sole purpose for not scum reading Yess was because they put them into the neighborhood, yet they acted like the neighborhood was 'random choosing', that's just a poor reason because it's not 'random' It's the order of the sign-ups, which has a reason. And even if so, scum actively had to choose to do so still, and didn't have to commit to it.

Ah yes, this is where my brain broke earlier. The idea of Python "subtly" controlling the game. I don't think Python really does

subtle

.

Python's Zero% Lim is rough because they brought it up themselves, like that's a built in defense for why they wouldnt put themselves in small hood, which is why theyd put themselves in small hood. But it's not the best defense either way, and don't think it helps, just kind of rough they said it. Like a little extra sprinkle for presentation. Do they even care about it in the long run or is it just something they think is currently cool? Idk.

Thinking something is currently cool is definitely something people can do. I recently considered replacing into a game in elo and read a little bit of it, came up with two theories on who the scum team was, and eventually didn't pull the trigger on joining the game partly because I was worried it was a doomed scum slot and I didn't want to mess up my incredible Mafia win rate on a game I barely even was in.

Absolutely think the STD hops are gross. People targeted him because he thought we should target in big hood, which is like, eh, don't necessarily agree, but I think it's fair for people to be sick of small hood stuff and find a reason to move away from it.

What is this garbage take, lol. I think it's incredibly obvious that Dragons got some pushback because he said "let's pay attention to big hood, uh no I don't have any attention of my own to give big hood but I'll tell other people to do it" which is pretty silly.

GOing after STD the way people did for that is just reinforcing any thought outside of small hood is negative.

Nope, still makes negative sense. I had already pivoted to big hood with a Cakez vote even before poking at Dragons. Why are you trying to paint the exact opposite picture of what actually was happening?

[Aureal]

it's so weak cuz the read is based off the idea that Cakez would be difficult to fake a mindmeld with AD, which is true, but since AD didn't share these ideas beforehand that the only way Cakez would be able to fake this would be if he could read minds. Maybe terrible is too strong a word, but it's very very weird to me that he would even mention the unlikelihood of Cakez faking mindmeldable stuff as a townread reason cuz it's so beyond the realm of possibility that it's not even worth mentioning. Is the read otherwise much different than a regular mindmeld read? Not really! But the weird logic used makes me suspicious.

I like this reasoning for why you don't like the read.

Negative sense continues to be made by Flavor Leaf. Are you partners with Invis?

[Aureal]

Why does that first part matter? Our reads being different has nothing to do with my reads on Cakez/Dan. Those are completely separate.

Yeah except even if I flipped a coin I'd still be 50% correct on scum which means I get to do fun pre-flip associatives and I don't like Cakez makes a bunch of reads that I disagree with without any real reasoning or examples of why he thinks stuff like yes/Dan being TvT or what posts by Invis/yes had a townie thought process

-A

You think it's scummy to give reads without giving reasoning? There's an awful lot of scum running around out there on this site, then.

[Aureal]

ActionDan is a hard one to truly town read here, but I get why he was town reading Cakez.

The mind boggles. Dan's on the top of my big hood pile.

But Aureal was skirting around. I need to look back at them more.

@Python - you talked about Aureal a little bit before, do you scum read them?

What the hell game are you reading? "Skirting around"? What does that even mean? It sounds like you're trying to say I'm not doing anything, but I think I've been one of if not the most active big hood player. Even having dropped off somewhat for a few days because I've been hella busy and couldn't focus on this.

[Aureal]

Aureal's like 2nd or 3rd in the big hood scumminess, like yeah not sorting yessiree is scummy but there's been so much scumminess coming from the big hood that it kinda doesn't even make a dent

-A

What "scumminess" coming from big hood are you talking about? I've mostly been seeing nothingness.

[Aureal]

Not gonna lie, the only reason I don’t full send Python here is because I know Invisibility’s a sly one.

But everything Python says is cap

Nobody has translated this for me yet.

[Aureal]

you never responded to my semantics Dan

Last I checked you were voting me for typing one sentence too many

I'm voting you for typing one sentence that was weird and smacked of bad logic that'd arise from an unnatural thought process!

I've already lost this plot thread. What the heck is this about?

[Aureal]

Basically, even though it's not a theoretically perfect hood for a given scum pair it's generically good enough that big hood scum has a good shot at deepwolfing regardless of who they are; the only info hood composition gives is that scum are ok with slightly suboptimal hood compositions to reduce the amount of info town has.
In Aureal/Merlyn/BurgerParty worlds none of them need to worry about getting meta'd, especially if we'd decided to focus exclusively on small hood to also break the Aureal/Python, Aureal/yessiree, and Merlyn/Python meta possibilities outing them.
In STD/Cakes/Dan worlds bringing in anyone that could meta them together in the same hood means they can leverage those connections to pocket each other while also taking advantage of scum needing to shoot in big hood anyways if small hood gets limmed to kill anyone problematic

I'm sorry, did you just start off by saying that players who have meta from a previous game on each other are more likely to get found out as scum, and then conclude that players who have previous game meta on each other can use it to pocket each other? In other words, go from "meta bad for scum" to "meta good for scum"?

[Aureal]

I have the same read as AD on Cakez, by the way. I mindmelded.

That’s why I think the AD/Cakez/FL Triangle is all town.

Well isn't that convenient for you?

[Aureal]

i think scum in the small hood is taking the lead

i don't know who it is though. need to re-read or iso dive and that might not happen today

If this is what you’re thinking, why are you falling for the ActionDan trap. That’s who the leading small hood scum players are angling for.

I get why you can see ActionDan as scummy for it, but I just don’t see any actual scum motivation for them to do it besides SirCakez pocket.

But that’s all they were doing, and it’s almost like purposefully being mysterious, which I think is townie and almost a bait like trap on ActionDan’s part to be able to directly feel the gamestate moving at him.

I think it's utterly insane how we have reached this level of 5D-Chess playing apparently all because a guy said "hey this person is town because they're thinking the same way as me."

[Aureal]

I don't think the hoods were chosen for the small hood composition, so the TR based on small hood composition doesn't apply

but scum obviously found the small hood composition acceptable even if that wasn't their main intention. Would letting you and him be in the same hood not, like, still suck for scum!Yess?

Why is Invis still trying to get Python to go for yessiree based on this ancient reasoning?

[Aureal]

I forgot STD in the big hood thing, but they’re in a similar situation as AD for me, while they could be scum, but I have some reasonings to believe they’re town, so it made sense to pressure Aureal slot to see and feel if I was off on my reads or not.

You forgot, huh. What exactly are these "some reasonings to believe they're town" then?

[Aureal]

I disagree; lurking and staying out of spotlight is a good way to get to endgame

esp if the small hood keeps us distracted

That's the thing though, we

were

focusing on the big hood to sort it. I think scum was directly responsible for dragging us back to the small hood because the small hood scum is in a good enough position to mislim both small hood town, which lets big hood scum focus on setting up for their own endgame. That's the kind of thing that can't be done while lurking, it needs active effort to prevent big hood players like Merlyn and STD from getting people to sort big hood

-A

Merlyn and STD seem like incredibly random choices to namedrop here???

[Aureal]

the thoughts flowing from cakez mostly feel authentic, i think scum!cakez would be more selective and filtered in what he posts, and i dont think cakez would hold the position "all 3 small hood are scummy" as scum, especially given the timing of it, when most big hood players are not doing much, having that position would be stick out like a sore thumb but he did it anyway

I really don't get how "all these players are scummy" is a hard thing to say or sticks out?

it's inherently a scummy thing to say, especially since the thread was predominantly small hood posting, so it's deliberately taking a neutral position and not changing the dynamics of the small hood conflict

but i think yall are focusing too much on what was said and are not considering what

could

have been said by scum!cakez that would put him in a better position

Why does a scum Cakez need to do something to try to gain a better position?

[Aureal]

The self quickhammer was a joke, the quickhammer on you wasn't

ok then, if python get to E-1 i'm auto hammering no cap

This shit is just triggering

intense anger

in me probably partly due to another miserably long workday in a miserable unseasonable heatwave, so I'm probably going to just wait for some point when I will hopefully be cooler to respond. Because all I want to do right now is scream and fume about how people are apparently intentionally trying to be hard to understand with some BS slang?!?

[Aureal]

why wouldn't scum do something to be in the best position possible? especially when it was freelo
what kinda question is this?

freelo?

What's "the best position possible" and how are scum supposed to know how to get there? Cakez is now getting townread for this supposedly scummy thing he said- that seems like it worked out pretty well for him, doesn't it?

[Aureal]

Lol, Aureal is Hatcheting me hardcore

I'm writing a novel about a boy stranded in the wilderness after an airplane crash?

The way Aureal is playing is protecting Python. They're chop chop chopping at me.

I don't see what you're seeing but if I am, great? Townreads should be protected, shouldn't they?

I'm taking this to mean that you have no intention of actually addressing the issues I have with you though, just going for a wild discredit attempt.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Aureal]

Those aren't mutually exclusive thing you know, having meta on someone means they're probably not gonna be a null for you. For players with less scum experience no meta is better since they're still at the skill level where they need to focus on not getting caught. For players with more scum experience meta is better since it lets them leverage those relationships to control the game

-A

I don't feel that's true, at least for as loosely as you define 'meta'. Relationships are built over significant amounts of time and play. Some people are going to be better at using them to their advantage than others (whether scum or not).

[Aureal]

but if you really want a reason, go back and look at what aureal has done to try and sort me

???

Things Aureal has done to sort Save The Dragons: noticed STD saying big hood should post more even though he was the lowest poster in the game; voted STD; encouraged STD to post more
Things Save The Dragons has done to sort Aureal: made a meme; voted Aureal; called Aureal scum

I don't think you're winning the 'attempting to sort' here. Even if you

don't

take into account that I actually have done plenty of things that could be used in attempting to sort, and you have not.

[Aureal]

Are we not the only people in big hood to ask to sort big hood?

Ask?

I was supposed to

ask

to sort big hood?

Wow, silly me, I just went and tried to

do

it.

[Aureal]

Mechanically speaking we should only be limming big hood day 1 if we've got someone in the small hood locktown/lockscum, otherwise we risk losing a mislim compared to just limming in small hood until we hit scum to guarantee at least getting to 3p ELO

-A

If we can get a consensus read on anyone in the small hood (whether a TR or an SR) then I'd prefer to lim in the big hood today

-A

Hahahahaha I don't see

that

happening here.

[Aureal]

I kinda want to lim in the big hood today actually
I feel we have a good shot there compared to little hood

I don't feel the same. I have three scumreads and one townread in big hood.

[Aureal]

"no cap" just means "no joke"
please dont be mad at me

Sorry, I was having a rough day and it felt like basically everything was trying to shit on me. Thanks for the explanation.

[Aureal]

at this point, i just wanna see if this is legit or not

Fine I'll respond to this shitpush, we get scumread all the time for our playstyle and I see the same thing happening here

-A

BTW, can you explain this further? Where have you gotten much in the way of being scumread for playstyle?

[Aureal]

@Aureal - what are the reasons you have “issues” with my play?

Give me a bullet point list.

I feel like my posts would have answered them, but give me the low down

Uh, I literally just responded to your posts which had nothing in the way of answers to me. You claimed I was (I guess) trying to attack you to somehow defend Python?? But you didn't respond to anything I said. You already had the chance to answer, the posts are still there to answer, why are you trying to push it back at me to say things again?

Also, the OMGUS is hilarious.

Again, you're just attempting to discredit rather than interact.

[Aureal]

What posts were directed towards me that you stated?

I'm attacking you without posting about you now? You were just so certain I was attacking you with my posts and now you can't find them? lolwut

[Aureal]

Merlyn vote on Yessiree is a momentum shifting vote. Wanting to note it because it clashes with where I was here, but it was their entrance really, so not overly scummy, but worth noting.

Momentum shifting? I have a hard time feeling like anything that early can really have momentum.

Both Invisibility and Python are subtly controlling this game. On the surface, it looks like Invisibility, but I can see it being Python just letting it flow, but their change onto Yess was an action that I didn't like at all. If the sole purpose for not scum reading Yess was because they put them into the neighborhood, yet they acted like the neighborhood was 'random choosing', that's just a poor reason because it's not 'random' It's the order of the sign-ups, which has a reason. And even if so, scum actively had to choose to do so still, and didn't have to commit to it.

Ah yes, this is where my brain broke earlier. The idea of Python "subtly" controlling the game. I don't think Python really does

subtle

.

Python's Zero% Lim is rough because they brought it up themselves, like that's a built in defense for why they wouldnt put themselves in small hood, which is why theyd put themselves in small hood. But it's not the best defense either way, and don't think it helps, just kind of rough they said it. Like a little extra sprinkle for presentation. Do they even care about it in the long run or is it just something they think is currently cool? Idk.

Thinking something is currently cool is definitely something people can do. I recently considered replacing into a game in elo and read a little bit of it, came up with two theories on who the scum team was, and eventually didn't pull the trigger on joining the game partly because I was worried it was a doomed scum slot and I didn't want to mess up my incredible Mafia win rate on a game I barely even was in.

Absolutely think the STD hops are gross. People targeted him because he thought we should target in big hood, which is like, eh, don't necessarily agree, but I think it's fair for people to be sick of small hood stuff and find a reason to move away from it.

What is this garbage take, lol. I think it's incredibly obvious that Dragons got some pushback because he said "let's pay attention to big hood, uh no I don't have any attention of my own to give big hood but I'll tell other people to do it" which is pretty silly.

GOing after STD the way people did for that is just reinforcing any thought outside of small hood is negative.

Nope, still makes negative sense. I had already pivoted to big hood with a Cakez vote even before poking at Dragons. Why are you trying to paint the exact opposite picture of what actually was happening?

it's so weak cuz the read is based off the idea that Cakez would be difficult to fake a mindmeld with AD, which is true, but since AD didn't share these ideas beforehand that the only way Cakez would be able to fake this would be if he could read minds. Maybe terrible is too strong a word, but it's very very weird to me that he would even mention the unlikelihood of Cakez faking mindmeldable stuff as a townread reason cuz it's so beyond the realm of possibility that it's not even worth mentioning. Is the read otherwise much different than a regular mindmeld read? Not really! But the weird logic used makes me suspicious.

I like this reasoning for why you don't like the read.

Negative sense continues to be made by Flavor Leaf. Are you partners with Invis?

ActionDan is a hard one to truly town read here, but I get why he was town reading Cakez.

The mind boggles. Dan's on the top of my big hood pile.

But Aureal was skirting around. I need to look back at them more.

@Python - you talked about Aureal a little bit before, do you scum read them?

What the hell game are you reading? "Skirting around"? What does that even mean? It sounds like you're trying to say I'm not doing anything, but I think I've been one of if not the most active big hood player. Even having dropped off somewhat for a few days because I've been hella busy and couldn't focus on this.

[Aureal]

On the momentum shifting side of things, it 100% had a momentum shift in the game when Merlyn came in. This is essentially a fact. Yessiree had 3 votes on them, and was E-2.

I assume you meant to say Invisibility there. In which case, why Merlyn specifically as opposed to all the rest of us who came in while Invis was E-2?

I think you calling my take a 'Garbage take' is just poor and rude. My read on STD is just as valid as anyone else's. Me saying that me saying I thought the STD hops was gross was me inferring I think it was scum ridden, not that they were bad or unwarranted in a 'garbage take' kind of way.

Everyone's reads are valid, and it's really annoying when people call them trash read or garbage take, because like, let's just be nice. We can call things scummy and whatnot, but yeah.

Okay, fine, your take on why people were going after STD is so inaccurate it's hard to believe it's not intentionally so. It's like, literally the OPPOSITE of what's actually happening.

In fact, I think your entire comments on my thoughts with STD had one agenda: to discredit me. You didn't even care to look at our think why I was saying that.

No, that seems to be what

you're

doing.

You talk about negative sense regarding my take to Invisibility, okay then.

What don't you like about Invisibility's post there? Please enlighten.

I think after Invis's last clarification I'm understanding better what she was trying to say about the Dan read. Can't say I agree with it, but... I suppose it's something someone could possibly use in trying to make a read. Seems like a pretty flimsy basis so I'm not sure how it spawned so much talk.

On your regards to 'the mind boggling', in regards to my ActionDan understanding why he town reads SirCakez, this just feels like your the type who is pushing your reads as 100% the best reads no matter what and anyone who disagrees with you has a 'garbage take' as you put it.

Oh boy, if that's actually what you think, you really can't read me

at all.

I called that a garbage take because you are just flat-out wrong with it. You were talking about what

I

was doing, and I am the one who knows why I am doing what I am doing. I can't know for

sure

that Cakez has the same reasoning, but it seems pretty reasonable to think so. And you decided that something which is very obvious- voting STD for hypocrisy- was actually something totally different. And it's not even like you can think we're

both

scum, surely at least one of us is doing it for the obvious reason?

What is your read on SirCakez? What is mind boggling about the SirCakez town read reasoning of thinking all 3 are scummy and wanting to go big hood?

I think that's entirely valid. If you think otherwise, that's fine, but I want to know why you think that.

I wasn't boggling at Cakez, I was boggling at you thinking Dan was hard to townread. I don't have a problem with Dan or Cakez thinking that. I lean town on Dan for other reasons though, and Cakez is still just null.

The skirting around is really just me saying you were there while Invisiblity/Python were talking, and even Python commented on how you were only talking about Python/Invisibility.

Like this isn't opinion, this is fact. You were there. I gave my reasoning before with the theory of you being there supporting a possible scum partner in one of them.

Really, what exactly are you talking about here? You're talking about a specific conversation? I comment on things when I have something to comment upon. I can't even figure out what you're talking about here because I recall Python saying that pretty early on and it didn't make much sense to me then and I'm checking my ISO now and it makes even less sense because it seems like basically everything I said in the first few pages was directed at Python. Python is an attention hog. I don't know why you (either of you) feel like I was engaging with Invis the same as Python but not engaging with yessiree, if that's what you're referring to.

[Aureal]

STD, I stand by what I read. The more popular take on it doesn't mean I think it's correct.

It's one of those things where a lot of people scum read it and I go, 'nah thats not scummy.'

You're shifting the subject. This is what you said that spawned my indignant reaction:

People targeted him because he thought we should target in big hood, which is like, eh, don't necessarily agree, but I think it's fair for people to be sick of small hood stuff and find a reason to move away from it.

"I don't think it's scummy for STD to do that" isn't at all what you're saying there. You can have that opinion, it's fine. I wouldn't have even reacted to it if you said that. What you did instead with this line was state

as fact

what Cakez and I were doing in a way that makes

us

look bad. And I know for a fact that you are wrong about it because I know why I was doing it. And it should be pretty clear that this interpretation of our actions is wrong, if you pay attention, because I was already targeting in big hood- I voted Cakez to try to generate some content there before STD came along with that post and then seemed like an even better place to push. Saying that I

don't

want to target in big hood is quite an accusation when that's exactly what I've been doing.

You say I'm discrediting you, but frankly, I've barely been paying attention to your existence other than my catchup, you indirectly protecting Python with all of this, and without a doubt the most memorable thing of your posts for me is you losing it over the slang of 'no cap'.

Other than that, I've just been glossing over you, so idk, I barely care about your slot in comparison to Python's tbh. This is the juciest stuff I've seen from you, and I can see the scum motivation for it to try and discredit me, and you're doing alright with it. You could be town, though, I don't know. If you are, we need to help each other see that we're town. I hope I'm doing that for you showing you where I'm coming from if you are town.

You say "barely been paying attention" and yet I feel like you've repeatedly been calling me scum like you're very confident of it. Seems like maybe you should be paying more attention to what I'm doing then? Does your experience lead you to believe that people like being scumread, particularly for reasoning that you just glossed over? Does it help people understand you? Does it make them want to listen to you and believe you're town? Because it sure doesn't work that way for me.

Good to see your understanding where Invis is coming from, try doing that with me because right now it just seems like your attacking me aimlessly because you don't understand.

Again with the subtle discrediting. Really, read all of what you're saying here and tell me how this sounds.

"I'm not even really paying attention to you."
"Try to understand me, you're not even bothering."

From my perspective,

you're

the one who started attacking me aimlessly because you don't understand, or are scum.

I'll do what I can to help you understand, I promise I have my reasons and thought processes. Like, even if you believe I could be scum here, like...I wrote an entire guide on How To Play As Scum you can see in my sig, so I'm not just going to do random things if I am scum. You could make a scum case here like I'm trying to strong arm the game, and get the person who would be targeting hypothetical partner Yessiree, and take out small hood town while pocketing others.

That would be a good reason to scum read me. It's not what's happening, but I could see how someone could read it that way, and I would see it as valid. Only thing I can do is try to say where my head is at and be as clear as I can be when asked, ya feel?

Yeah, I can see your sig. Strong-arming the game is pretty much how I feel about what you're doing. You came in and started pushing a narrative about me being scum that didn't exist before you, and would be massively advantageous to scum if they can turn it into a mis-elimination on me here. A narrative which you're now saying you haven't really even been paying much attention to looking at. And you don't understand why I'd be frustrated with you?

[Aureal]

at this point, i just wanna see if this is legit or not

Fine I'll respond to this shitpush, we get scumread all the time for our playstyle and I see the same thing happening here

-A

BTW, can you explain this further? Where have you gotten much in the way of being scumread for playstyle?

Hyperposting means that everyone has Opinions^TM so we're pretty much never in the null zone. That tends to mean that we're either unlimable due to being widely townread or the designated d1 lim. Combine that with people for some reason finding our reliance on meta, metadata, and dissonance as scumhunting tools to be scummy and I'd say that describes a majority of the townies currently SRing us

-A

Some people here and there scumreading you (like me in 2111) seems like a meager basis for that original statement, and now you're going even further and wringing your hands about being a 'designated d1 lim'? You haven't answered the question about where this has happened, and obviously if it has you were able to get out of it since you claim to have never been voted out.

[Aureal]

I kinda want to lim in the big hood today actually
I feel we have a good shot there compared to little hood

I don't feel the same. I have three scumreads and one townread in big hood.

??? then you should agree with me that big hood is the better elim

I don't follow? Even if we assume I'm correct and scum is in my scumreads, that'd be a 1/3 chance. Which is the same as small hood in total, but I'd similarly narrow down small hood I'd be willing to vote so that becomes 1/2. And we'd be losing the mechanical benefit of being guaranteed to hit a scum by sticking with small hood targets.

And that's also totally just from my perspective but I'm not the one who decides the elimination and thus realistically it could be me as well, and I know that's not good.

[Aureal]

whether or not i've tried to sort you has nothing to do with whether or not you tried to sort me

i don't think i was the lowest poster in the game at the time either, encouraging me to post more doesn't sort me

You were the lowest poster in the game.

How am I supposed to sort you when there's hardly anything to sort? What else am I supposed to do other than encourage you to post? Just sit quietly and

hope

you post more to increase the odds I find something that helps me try to sort you?

[Aureal]

No, it's explicitly that game that's making me look at you funny for this position, because you said there that your norm is getting townread, so much so that you agreed you should act scummier because the other mafia might shoot you if you looked too towny.

[Aureal]

Okay, I thought you were.

And yes, the Newbie Queue does not scumread in the same way as games with more experienced players. I've definitely learned that myself. Makes sense.

[Aureal]

UNVOTE:

Guess we're going small hood today. Going to have to think on that a bit more.

[Aureal]

to convince the rest of the town

I can make a better scum case as is on Yessiree instead of 'didn't meme in neighborhood'.

Idk.

@Merlyn - In your experience, does Python normally have incredibly weak and forced looking reasons for their reads?

Python's reasoning can be pretty wild IMO. In our previous game where we were both town, Python scumread me for possibly scumslipping by referring to how the newbie Mafia PTs would list the Mafia roles. I stated right upfront that I had checked the PTs from past games for that knowledge because I kneeeeeew that if I didn't, someone was gonna try to accuse me of being Mafia slipping and telling them about our PT. Python went ahead and did it anyway, quoting the exact language I'd used at the other people I'd played with before to see if they thought I would be diligent enough to actually check PTs, even while acknowledging that they knew I did check the old PTs because I was correct about them. It made no sense. And to top it off, when I argued back how it made no sense, Python flipped to strongly townreading me for "making a mistake" in thinking it was ridiculous that they would literally quote me saying I had checked the PTs while asking people if they believed I had checked the PTs and seeing for themself that I had checked the PTs. Because if I was scum I'd have posted that post in the PT to get fixed up and not made that "mistake".

It still makes my head hurt thinking about it.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Invisibility

So, uh, can I get a rundown of how screwed we are if we flip wrong in big hood here?

[Aureal]

maybe I haven't been clear enough that someone should just hammer Python right now. Wagoning Oclax was funny but I feel ok with what we got out of it but we should definitely just go for the 1/3 especially from my perspective!

Oclax probably flips the opposite of Python

What makes you say that?

[Aureal]

Python, if we flipped Oclax as scum here, why would you still be the expected flip tomorrow? I don't think anyone really thinks you two are partnered, more the reverse?

[Aureal]

Oh, right. I knew that.

Trying to think things through with work distractions: not very effective.

[Aureal]

I feel like Invis is just here to throw shade at Python.

And I don't think it matters what I do with my vote here. Having both seemingly possible wagons be in the slots I thought were townier is pretty

[Aureal]

Weren't you complaining a bit ago that if we flip wrong in small it'd be really stupid to not continue flipping in small?

[Aureal]

You straight up disrespected the entire playerlist.

[Aureal]

i suspect everyone to be honestly, i don't think i feel good about any slot in this game

Okay, I feel a little better about you now.

Andante's whole case on me is that I posted more in another game. I think I'm being set up to be a mislim today, but I'm willing to go if Andante definitely goes next.

Yeah, you've only played the one game with her, right? Where you replaced in late in the game?

[Aureal]

Is... is FL always like this? Andante? Cakez? Someone?

[Aureal]

Yeah, I guess I can envision that. The Invis NK doesn't make any sort of sense to me otherwise. All I've come up with for possible reasoning is that there could've been something in the small hood that they were afraid Invisibility would tell us, but that hardly seems likely.

I'm not too inclined to believe it's Andante here. I think it'd be rather weird for scum STD to refuse to hammer Python and try to wagon Oclax instead? And this could well be town Andante, though I haven't seen enough to be too confident yet.

[Aureal]

Every time I try to think about this I get so confused again. I get the impression Cakez is kinda in the same boat of eyeing this craziness going WTF, so I'm not too inclined to think it's him. Flavor Leaf is driving me crazy but I think his point that he doesn't make that silly Invis NK is actually decent.

It feels weird that Merlyn is just shrugging in the face of getting voted out if she's scum rather than trying to do something to get out of it. Then again in this game maybe just waiting for FL to go elsewhere isn't that bad a play... Hmm...

[Aureal]

So is that you realizing that Cakez is not actually good at scum masterminding?

[Aureal]

Hey Aureal, what do you think read wise in this game? I find it interesting you seemed to agree with me in hood about merlyn, but like, you didn't want to hammer the e-1 merlyn vote? (cakez too tbh)

and aureal, like, you don't seem to care who we lim? don't want to take a side? where's your head at with this game

I think it's pretty clear that I dunno wtf is going on here. All my townreads are dead, and none of you are covering yourself in towniness.

Cakez is taking the same position of not being sure what to do.
FL is all over the board so I can't really get on the same page with case he makes because he'll just decide it's no good after all an hour later. I was almost starting to come around with his points on Cakez and the NKs but then Cakez said a few totally generic things about having been busy and FL townread that? Confusion.
Merlyn kinda pinged me back on day one with the talk about "let's sort big hood" instead of just trying to sort big hood, like she wanted to look productive more than actually be productive; and the "we're in a really dangerous spot" comment on that topic seemed a little excessively dramatic. But I asked you both about your apparent meta read on her having a strong town game while she's being lurky here and didn't get a response, so I'm not exactly feeling the rush to hammer. I've never hammered anyone with days left on the deadline timer- is this really where I want to learn how?

[Aureal]

If I were scum here, I just vote sit on Andante and wait for someone to vote them, and then get Merlyn faded tomorrow.

I am the most objectively town player in this game by far, I’m just switching my mindset over and over because I am essentially trying to solve this game myself.

There is absolutely zero reason for me to do that here as scum.

You all should literally just consider me as conf town at this point.

This is absolutely insanely bold to state this right here if I were scum, and there is absolutely no reason for me to play this way as scum because the win con I already stated would be easy af.

Merlyn, stop with the Playing The Victim card being setup for a Mislim.

Just play the game. We’re right here.

I also don’t see any shape or form how you can possibly think I am “setting you up for a mislim”.

Oddly, people boldly declaring that they are confirmed town does not actually do anything to make me feel that they are in fact more likely to be town. It makes it incredibly hard to talk to you because you say things like that. Creating chaos and confusion is not an obviously townie attribute. I'm just sitting here rolling my eyes when I read things like that, you realize.

It's also kinda rich for you to say Merlyn is Playing The Victim card after you just a few lines earlier were complaining that you're having to solve the game yourself.

[Aureal]

“ FL is all over the board so I can't really get on the same page with case he makes because he'll just decide it's no good after all an hour later.”

Aureal said this.

You don’t need me to tell you what to do. Why does it matter if I change? If you liked the points, you can use them for yourself.

Help me stay on track instead of giving up.

Like come on….

Y’all are killing me

They're

your

points about Cakez. If you change your mind about them being good, what am I supposed to think about them? You've talked about how you think you can read Cakez when he's scum. I'm basically not familiar with Cakez's play at all- we've only ever slightly interacted in one game where he was in a hydra with Alisae and got NKed night one after a day that didn't last 72 hours.

[Aureal]

My tone isn’t angry or frustrated really by the way, im just constantly slamming my head on the table

Trying to figure out where we wanna eat since all y’all say you’re hungry, but i don’t care where we eat, and I’ve given my preferences and options, and im giving pros and cons of each, like the distances of each, the price.

But none of y’all wanna eat

Bud, you literally unvoted 8 minutes after telling Cakez to go ahead and hammer when he'd stated intent. What exactly are you even complaining about here?

And if you don't care, how can you complain that we supposedly don't care?

[Aureal]

I also don’t trust them in Final 3

Funny, turn that around and that's exactly the thought that's been in my head paralyzing me for oh, the last two game days.

I thought maybe if I shut up and didn't keep engaging in arguments suspecting you, if you're actually town the scum would think I'd been convinced enough that you were town that they'd actually do what you said was going to happen and NK you. Or at least me, to spare me from having to deal with whatever the heck this is.

So far, it hasn't worked out.

[Aureal]

I think it's pretty clear that I dunno wtf is going on here.

soooo the plan is to just... sit there? like, you have to come to whatever conclusion... if you're scum it makes perfect sense how you're playing right now, where it seems like you just don't care who we lim, then in final 3 you go "wow guys, yall so bad"

I've tried asking you about your meta read on Merlyn and haven't really gotten a satisfactory response. I've tried poking at your town read on FL; honestly I'm not even sure if that's a meta read or not still because I haven't gotten anything from you about it other than "I dunno I kinda want to yeet him to make sure" which certainly doesn't do anything to help convince me he's town. If you're so sure he's town, tell me why. You out of all people here ought to realize he's the kind of player I'm going to be staring very suspiciously at no matter what.

[Aureal]

Andante why are you avoiding talking to me? I've tried twice now

I see this and I don't know if you're feeling the same way I do or saying it because I have.

Also i was planning to hammer upon getting back here but the unvote messed that up

You could still vote though, if you were confident enough to be ready to hammer?

Hmmm.

VOTE: SirCakez

[Aureal]

I just want to lim merlyn. I'm pretty sure that's the lim that wins this...

But what do you think about Cakez and I trying to talk to you?

[Aureal]

I'm in the processing of ISOing everyone left, and I have a question for you Aureal- do you townread FL?

No. I don't consistently townread anyone here or I wouldn't be so hesitant. I don't really like to cite 'effort' as necessarily being towny - I've seen Python's scum game.

[Aureal]

On board with what, exactly? I'm already voting Cakez. Are you asking if I think we should commit to flipping Andante afterwards if that doesn't work? I'm not advocating for any particular final 3 flip- that's something the people involved have to work out. You said that yourself a while ago. Who the heck even knows which of us would still be alive there- the way this game's been going, if we did think Andante should be the next target, scum would probably shoot her. ._.

[Aureal]

Cakez is town you say? Where's that read come from?

[Aureal]

Idk, I'm wondering if the confusion is the point. Was playing a yolo "let's shoot the scummy people" the plan all along? I can envision yessiree thinking that's a silly, fun plan. In which case I have to think a replacement is less likely to stick to that plan. Especially if it's Andante, who I don't think would really want to have to carry the game?

[Aureal]

My plan to get Merlyn shot failed.

[Aureal]

On the other hand, I didn't lose ELO with my first post. Sooooo, progress?

[Aureal]

Well, thanks for at least not making me have to decide anything. I just reread Merlyn's ISO and finished reading your scum guide and was still rather wobbly on a direction.

[Aureal]

I think gg to you is much more warranted. I had one read I had confidence in all game, and not enough persuasive ability to save them.

And Connor, well he was still talking despite being in many pieces the last time we saw him. Maybe he can be repaired?

I have to note for Sky, I really liked the mod flavor for this game. "reject the right to keep playing in this game" is priceless. XD

[Aureal]

Thanks for modding!

my favorite sequence of posts: yessiree putting merlyn at e-1, usesPython pointing out in the small hood that hammering scum is auto win, and yessiree immediately unvoting LOL

And that boldness won them the game, too.

If only I had had that amount of boldness and hammered Merlyn on one of the occasions I had the chance. I was considering it both times. Ah well.