Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[AurorusVox]

VOTE: Aisa

@Asia, Bella, KK - where those votes at?

[AurorusVox]

Agreed with arko at the top of the pile so far

[AurorusVox]

Eh, I felt like ranger making a reads list was the end of rvs?

Why is set up spec so towny? Like, it just seems factual

I’d say it’s more than anyone else has contributed so far? Not that it’s “so towny,” but relatively speaking the it’s best contribution

Or do you think Ranger’s contribution is better/more productive?

[AurorusVox]

But very mild town is still top of the list!

Yeah exactly this

[AurorusVox]

I actually agree with a few of bbs posts, esp where they said about doing both scum and town hunting and whatever works best for the person. I also didn’t mind the discussion around setup bc I’ve not played it before and I found it helpful to think about. Not super townie etc by any means but valid contributions? and it was in response to vander and also grim of OE got briefly involved too (I guess that’s the challenge of a hydra account) so not sure why arko would be singled out for it.

VOTE: ox

[AurorusVox]

That’s e-2

[AurorusVox]

Not sure how far I buy into it being theatre, but I have a slight townlean on bb so

[AurorusVox]

Like these are good posts imo

I just thought it was a bit suspicious for Arko to gain so much support so quickly for things I thought was mostly NAI (setup spec).

I buy this as a reason for their early vote

Maybe an imprecise use of words could be construed to be more townie, since it could indicate the poster is more careless, and scum tends to be more careful about everything?

I agree with this

If there's 'no reason', then wouldn't it technically be NAI since there isn't a scummy or townie reason?

I also agree with this, like what does scum get out of it if there’s no town reason to do it?

Actually oe did explain an answer to this from their pov - bc it looks like contributing when not providing anything - but look at arko posts in context and it was early doors in rvs (when legit contributions aren’t really expected anyway) and it was in direct response to something vander said

[AurorusVox]

*agree with the second part about scum being potentially more careful, not the first part about imprecision = town

[AurorusVox]

I actually back ox over the “technically” point to be fair (might not agree with it but I can see why it pinged them)

Saying “technically” implies in reality it isn’t NAI

Hmm

Ox can you explain to me why you zeroed in on arko when multiple people were discussing setup spec at the time?

[AurorusVox]

UNVOTE:

[AurorusVox]

Oh wow, sorry I had no idea!! Sorry if saying hydra was offensive <3

I saw LLD’s post about a similar thing, really interesting! Didn’t realise that was what ‘system’ meant but very good to know for the future

[AurorusVox]

Morning.
UNVOTE:
Ok... 3 Votes on ox already is way too quick. It took you guys only like 12 hours past my original vote. plus, BB was against ox too so they might of voted/hammered also. That's way too quick for a game with 3 scum vs 6.

Not sure I buy this panic tbh

If scum orchestrated a quick hammer on someone at e-2 are they not just handing us the easy win since we only need to send 2 of them to hell?

Also it’s weird to me that you were focusing on ox making e-2 quickly when you were also at e-2 at the time and in fact still are?

[AurorusVox]

(Oh and bb was on the wagon already so like how could they have hammered??)

[AurorusVox]

Morning.
UNVOTE:
Ok... 3 Votes on ox already is way too quick. It took you guys only like 12 hours past my original vote. plus, BB was against ox too so they might of voted/hammered also. That's way too quick for a game with 3 scum vs 6.

Not sure I buy this panic tbh

If scum orchestrated a quick hammer on someone at e-2 are they not just handing us the easy win since we only need to send 2 of them to hell?

Also it’s weird to me that you were focusing on ox making e-2 quickly when you were also at e-2 at the time and in fact still are?

Yes I'm E-2. I can't change that. It's bad. However, I could change ox being E-2. So I did. Found it too early when we have so much time left. If they end up acting scummier or they are on track to death, yes, I may revote them.

Like. What?

Of course you can change that, by defending the points levied against you or doing some scumhunting?

Ps I went back to iso you to see if your done these things, you offered some defence of “technically” and said you meant you were NAI for looking at “technical” reasons but that’s not how the word is used in context so this stinks of trying to cover up a mistake to me

Like how can “technically NAI” mean “NAI for technical speculation”???

Also I saw this

I think that might be E-2 By the way, let them breath for some time before voting them.

You put ox at e-2 or at least thought you did and now only later have you come back to say putting them at e-2 was shaky and too quick???

Ranger like wtf why do you townread this?

VOTE: arko

Pedit: E-2 again

[AurorusVox]

Ranger - what do you make of arko apparently freaking out over e-2 being too soon, when they themselves thought they’d put ox at e-2 earlier in the thread?

[AurorusVox]

Maybe I’ll regret saying this in 2 hours’ time, but Vanders can have a townread for now…
*trembles like a leaf*

I like the lemon too but I haven’t thought about it as hard. (The lemon is AurorusVox.)

Why is giving me a townread terrifying?

Because… what I am wrong and you’re secretly super sneaky, and me giving you the townread starts a chain of actions like the beat of a butterfly’s wings, making everyone else townread you too, and then we get attached to you and trust you and look up to you, and give you allll the soft power, which you use to do sneaky things like pushing saints into hell one at a time, except you do it slowly slowly and make us think it was our own idea, and before we know it we all dieeeee?

More serious posting later :’)

I’m not sure how I feel about this…

[AurorusVox]

Asia do you normally prefer to townhunt or scumhunt??

[AurorusVox]

Or maybe it's just my disarming charisma, that happens too

I mean it’s disarming for sure lol you make me want to read you as town

But it was more the deflecting of the question that tingled my citric juices. I suppose it depends if you answer it when you get to Serious Posting^TM

———

@ranger/arko that’s not the part I was bothered about. It was the difference between the thoughts on ox being at e-2 in these posts (you didn’t put ox at e-2 but you thought you had):

Ok yeah... 3 Sinners v 5 Saints from my point of view. So I'm literally not able to believe 3 of you. That's not the best. But what pers- I mean system I'm feeling is sinning a little too much? Maybe somethint to do with cults was how they sinned? Dunno, Don't care. VOTE: Empire I personally don't like the posts, and with the 3:5 ratio not including me... I'm honestly sure on killing this unless someone fucks up more, or they get out of it well.

I think that might be E-2 By the way, let them breath for some time before voting them.

…

Morning.
UNVOTE:
Ok... 3 Votes on ox already is way too quick. It took you guys only like 12 hours past my original vote. plus, BB was against ox too so they might of voted/hammered also. That's way too quick for a game with 3 scum vs 6.

———

@ranger yeah the “decide”/“know” thing could be a slip but could it not also be in the context of “you’ve decided … to present ox as a scumread / arko as a townread … as scum”?

[AurorusVox]

@ranger/arko that’s not the part I was bothered about. It was the difference between the thoughts on ox being at e-2 in these posts (you didn’t put ox at e-2 but you thought you had):

The difference between the thoughts are a difference behind the circumstances. Arko didn't have an issue with a slot being at e-2. Arko had an issue with Oclaxian Empire casting an e-2 vote on them, and inquired on it. Reading the situation in context makes it clear the two aren't comparable.

All the things I quoted are about the e-2 on ox

[AurorusVox]

They had no issue putting ox at e-2
The latter post I quoted they’re saying “woah guys e-2 that’s way too quick” even tho they thought they’d done it themselves (and as you said, had no issue being at e-2 themselves earlier on)

Morning.
UNVOTE:
Ok... 3 Votes on ox already is way too quick. It took you guys only like 12 hours past my original vote. plus, BB was against ox too so they might of voted/hammered also. That's way too quick for a game with 3 scum vs 6.

[AurorusVox]

If they had no issue with it earlier why did they have an issue with it later?

[AurorusVox]

Aisa have you commented on my case vs arko regarding the e-2 fiasco?

I don’t like the fact arko has not engaged with this point against him; and instead has retreated into disengagement. It seems this is his MO if Asia having to ask again and again is anything to go by.

Ranger I can’t tell if their “reevaluation” of arko is legit or fabricated to deflect heat from their own position.

[AurorusVox]

Ranger did say they would settle their view on arko after time away from the computer; I’m keen to see the conclusion of that as one away when you’re back from vla

[AurorusVox]

@kowah maybe I missed it but what was the one post you felt strongly about?

[AurorusVox]

Sorry guys I’ve been skimming a bit

This is where I’m at quick and dirty reads list:

Vanders my strongest townread
I’m not seeing the scumread of Asia (what mix do you mean?)
I still like bloodbots posts
Ox I like at times but I’m finding hard to read, the policy lim “half joke” was eh…
Bella I’m null on, the townslip thing seems shifty but also quite clumsy for scum to do?
Ranger I could see as scum but also hardheaded townie who sticks to their guns
Kowah I didn’t like his “one post” attitude
Arko slot still my preferred lim

Would do kowah, would probably do ranger, would compromise on Bella if necessary to secure a lim

Tbh my townread on Asia is the main thing that’s swaying me away from Ranger…

[AurorusVox]

I’ll hammer Ranger before deadline

@mod just checking, in this setup even if no one hammers the lim still goes through? Is that what the wiki means “Compulsive plurality eliminations”?

[AurorusVox]

VOTE: kowah for now
I’m more sure of drew/kowah but if they’re not viable, rangers next on my list

PS I’m concerned that there are people who seem to agree with the scumread on arko, but no one else is pushing them?

[AurorusVox]

Superb, so as it stands at the moment Ranger is getting limmed even without a hammer

[AurorusVox]

I’m a bit suspect of kowah putting e-1 but not announcing it

[AurorusVox]

Interestingly, if I understand the rules right, Ranger still gets limmed as things stand, thanks to kowah’s earlier vote putting Ranger at e-1 first

[AurorusVox]

Asia, the Bella stuff I can at least understand your pov on it. I’m kinda half letting my townread on you guide my other reads cos I’ve found it quite hard to get my head into the game and found myself skimming a bit.

Vanders - what’s your take on Asia/Bella?

I find the drew vote on me a little suspect like dude I was thirsting for arko to be limmed most of yesterday are you trying to get inside my head lol

Self voting is logically the best play here but we’d get nowhere with it so we do need people who aren’t getting to heaven to not self vote. Problem is that puts the power into the scummiest peoples hands.

Could I propose something akin to a draft where we assume everyone has a self vote and therefore we need to secure 4 supporting votes for a person to go to heaven?

So like everyone would say who they would send to heaven other than themselves and we see if anyone hits 4 that way? Eg I would send Vanders or Asia.

And failing that like a tournament style where like we all propose one person to send and anyone who gets 0 votes gets removed and then we go again with anyone with 0-1 votes removed, then 0-2 etc until we have found the right person?

I just feel like the risk otherwise is people voting themselves and not being as willing to change…

Bella i see you asking me to engage you and that’s fine maybe you can start with telling me what you think of my plan above??

[AurorusVox]

Aisa, vander, could compromise on one

Agree self votes seem a bit desperate

P-edit I think I understood but I'm not going to garcia

Why do self votes seem desperate? Townies know it’s a vote for a townie; scum will want to vote themselves too. I’d say it’s NAI and would assume anyone would self vote if there are 4 other votes for them to go to heaven.

[AurorusVox]

No it’s not about your read
I mean surely if you’re town it’s dangerous for someone who spent the day voting your slot to go to heaven

But like I also see no reason for you scum to do that either hence why I said a little suspect and are you trying to get in my head

[AurorusVox]

Dangerous because of MY read, it’s nothing to do with arko (I don’t even know what his read on me was) because from your pov I’d possibly vote you on a judgement day is what I was getting at

But yeah it does make me potentially rethink my scumread on the slot because why would you vote me as scum, like as scum I’d expect you to be voting for a scumbuddy if not yourself

Ahhh

[AurorusVox]

I feel like a day where you need to vote town is being shown through people voting themselves and then checking out…

This is what I have for “non-self” options based on posts - correct me if I’m wrong:

Ranger: Asia
Vanders: OE
Asia: Bella (vanders)
Ox: vanders
Drew: vox
AV: vanders, Asia
Bella: Asia, vanders (oe)
Bloodbot: ???

Based on this the most likely to get the support to go to heaven would be vanders, which I’m fairly happy with tbh

VOTE: Vanders

[AurorusVox]

I’m not sheeting per se, just using your reads to help me sort some uncertainties (Bella) and reconsider things (Ranger scum)

Like for example here, the fact ranger supports Asia/vanders for heaven, I don’t know how to feel about that, but using the Asia-ranger town read, I can feel slightly better about it and not want to jump off vanders immediately

[AurorusVox]

Aureal has just helped to solidify the townie vibes I was getting from bloodbot

If people don’t like vanders for heaven then they need to be proposing alternatives that aren’t themselves.

Based on my calculations earlier the only person who could contend with vanders for heaven is Asia. I’m guessing aureal would accord with that which I think gives Asia the necessary support too.

Tbh I’d be happy with either, drew being on vanders as well as Ranger maybe pushes me towards

VOTE: asia

[AurorusVox]

Ox replacement means we might not have x5 votes for Asia, enchant can you prioritise giving a read on Asia’s slot?

[AurorusVox]

COOL NOW I LOOK INCOMPETENT

Why? We want to send town to heaven so if anything it’s the opposite??

I really liked the catch up for town but dislike 555 quite a lot.

BTW could you elaborate on this?

In long run it didn't matter it's all mafia ploy.

8 players
5 good
3 evil

And Aisa didn't vote for self.
So mafia helped.

Also, this makes one of(if not both) Aureal and Vander town confirmed.

*scratches head* How's that? Obviously I know I'm town, but from your POV what's stopping Vander and I from being scum and just the third one voting Aisa?

Honestly forgetting that we still have 3 scum left, and not just 2 lol.

And feeling confident about Ranger being scum from PoE, I jumped to conclusions.

Nggghhhh. I don’t like this, it sounds like it could be a townslip at first…

except

for you to quote and believe enchants post (“scum must have helped”) then you have to be working from the pov of there being 3 scum and 5 townies. If you think its 6:2 then it’s entirely possible for the five on the wagon plus asia to be town. The excuse of “oh I forgot it was 3 scum whoops” doesn’t match with the original post and to be looks like it’s fabricating a lack of knowledge.

Also don’t like the idea of confirming people as town based on “confidence” in a scumread - confirm people based on actual fact and truth. Unless you “know” for a fact that Ranger is scum because they’re your buddy!

VOTE: drew for now, but would also vote ranger.

(I don’t want to put them at e-1 yet cos if they’re gonna be openly scum I assume they’ll just self hammer (although - is that actually a bad thing in nightless??))

[AurorusVox]

@vander it's the why I feel is missing? Maybe I'm tired but it feels like conclusions, not procees. This in particular ' understand why scum would want to send Aisa to heaven over me if they know that Ranger is town and they can get an extremely reliable kill there to win the game if they can lim someone other than Ranger today.'

In a world where Ranger and I are both town, if scum sent me to heaven yesterday and then get a miskill on a non-Ranger player today, they can probably just assume I will send Ranger straight to hell, right?

So why not try to do that?

I actually like the reasoning here from vanders, but as was then pointed out by Aureal, that was not a likely scenario to occur since Ranger was going to be likely limmed anyway…I mean, I can see a world in which vanders is making a play that they’re all about this scenario to distance from ranger should they flip scum with the ascension to heaven, but like, is anyone going to buy that after they flip?*

Aureal what are your thoughts here with the vanders questioning? Like I’m not sure what longevity a play has where vanders promises to judgement day Ranger if vanders is scum who’s looking likely to go to heaven?

Arghhh but then the thing that’s gnawing at me is I’m ALSO not sure why Ranger supported the vanders wagon, as town or scum that doesn’t make sense from Ranger if vanders is town. Unless it’s both of them are scum together and Ranger just got a bit eager and derailed his own partners wagon by offering support for it??

*actually…does vanders get more distancing cred with the above play if ranger is limmed, ie ranger flips scum and vanders then looks super townie for saying they’d judgement day them? Vs the distancing cred ranger would get if vanders was sent to heaven. Like could the play here have been gain the maximum cred for a d2 heaven vote for vanders???

:s

[AurorusVox]

@drew I voted before you or Ranger and then wasn’t here til after the hammer, not sure what I could have done given the natural direction of the flow of time…

@mod I’ll be v/la from now til Monday, I might be able to get on a bit tomorrow evening but definitely won’t be on tonight / Saturday / Sunday

[AurorusVox]

Also drew not sure what I’d have done there, knowing Asia is town now kinda makes it hard to consider it in retrospect. I certainly don’t like you voting Aisa (partly) to try to get me to change either. Were you hoping I’d get back on vanders?

[AurorusVox]

Damn everyone why you all gotta celebrate the end of the game without me

I think for me this game like I decided eeeeearly doors that bussing was suboptimal so a lot of my play was (too obviously) directed against swerving the ranger wagon or putting vanders into heaven and seeing ranger go down. In the end it probably would have been better to send vanders anyway.

But madness, how does vanders go from the prime heaven vote to getting limmed to hell! I’d never have thought vanders would go down!

Enjoyable game everyone, I really wanted to roll town here but enjoyable nonetheless ha.