Micro 1070 | a micro normal | Endgame

[Datisi]

hello

VOTE: alisae

good night

[Datisi]

huh, I hadn't thought about that.

Datisi can be my page one town read.

what

why

Also, iirc Dat would love to get away with a post like that as scum.

with a post like what. 9? in what universe is that a post that is exciting or cheeky for scumtisi to make?

[Datisi]

i don't like putting people in quickhammer ranges on page 4, so here's a vote for someone else that i find vaguely scummy / not towny:

VOTE: andante

[Datisi]

why do you think i should be poking ari there

[Datisi]

From what I remember you like to poke @ people who have a read on your slot and Ari also got a tr from ur post apparently. I cant help but notice u left her out

the first part is correct, the second isn't. me and ari have been on a very mean streak of me randing scum and her randing town. i don't think she was townreading me there. she never townreads me anyway...

[Datisi]

well i am town this time, so i hope!

[Datisi]

Not exciting. You don't like exciting as scum. But getting your post in and then getting to see how the RVS develops, that'd be right up your alley.

i am kind of surprised that you managed to get such an analysis on scum-me from just one game. (an analysis that is wrong, but that's besides the point)

do you actually have a read on me?

[Datisi]

one more time Dats <3

i am town, and i hope you're town with me so that we can finally win together <3

anyway uh
klick town
herta and myko alos scummy

i am very good at game

[Datisi]

Do you feel like anything Wavelength has done is AI or

uh, lean town for the early energy and the reads on aureal and you (and now the elaboration in 122). nothing major but i am liking his slot for now.

[Datisi]

i don't think you're town lole

[Datisi]

Datisi help
I found scum but e's going to beat me in an argument

i can potentially be sold on ali!scum but why are you pleading to me

[Datisi]

How do you currently read Alisae?

while i was reading their interactions yesterday (either with myko or with aureal, i forget), i did get vague pings that they might be scum. they felt... i dunno, too reasonable? but also like they're trying to appear townie by engaging in longish arguments that i feel like town-alisae wouldn't actually care about engaging in.

if you want, i can go over their iso and give a bit more detailed read later.

can you answer my question now?

[Datisi]

this feels like outguessing the mod, and considering you spelled out what you are looking for wrt wolves in the massclaim - a complete waste of time.

[Datisi]

alright, let's dance

VOTE: alisae

i have designed many normals, and i am notorious for "please don't setup spec, this is a datisi game, god knows what he put in it" - i know mods throw curveballs that you cannot reasonably expect. which is exactly the mindset from which i'm approaching this.

nothing about your role seems "both wolves need to have this role". it's a nothingburger role. and IF, EVEN IF you are correct that all wolves have that role (which you don't necessarily have to be correct about, but for the sake of argument) - what sense does it make that wolves are just gonna claim that role?? "they can't hide" they can just not claim it???

like. if you had gone "btw guys does anyone else have role xyz" and then once people claimed or not claimed, you went "ackchually, i think scum is within people that have this role", i could buy it as a thought process.

but you're telling me that i'm supposed to look at you saying "i have a mystery role, which like i'm totally sure all wolves also have, and also can we claim who all has this role now that i've said it because i think wolves are gonna be honest about their roles" and NOT think it's bullshit?

[Datisi]

roles have purposes in setups

the person who sometimes uses roles whose sole purpose is to fuck with the players is telling you to not outguess the mod? amazing. incredible. who would've thought.

[Datisi]

My gut instinct is to agree with you on Datisi's response being scummy in light of your role

what changed for you from before ali claimed to after

this isn't a trick question, i think you're town, this just seems insane to me that a messenger and a fruit vendor, who are all *nothing* roles, suddenly make a difference

[Datisi]

If they don't claim they will be found.
If they do claim, they will be found.

then what the fuck is the point of claiming if they can either true claim or fake claim and be found

[Datisi]

roles have purposes in setups

the person who sometimes uses roles whose sole purpose is to fuck with the players is telling you to not outguess the mod? amazing. incredible. who would've thought.

Not everyone is going to design games with this intent. I genuinely don't see how you think this is not productive.

1) some will, and we don't know what kind of designer our mod is
2) do you still wanna accuse me of faking my own mindset?

[Datisi]

okay

i'm not informed

there, i can't be a wolf, i'm conftown now

[Datisi]

i am trying to critically think about things. but unless you explain to me why scum would or wouldn't have the role you claimed, without it being the vague ~oooh mod wouldn't put this in game~ i'm gonna think you're making it up

[Datisi]

okay

i'm not informed

there, i can't be a wolf, i'm conftown now

What kind of fucking egregious impression do you have of me to think that I think wolves won't claim informed and they're automatically cleared if they don't???
You're labelling me in bad faith here

no, i'm making a point to how useless your tirade it

if you keep saying "btw both wolves would def have this role" then yeah that is what i am expecting to happen, because otherwise what is the point of claiming

i mean, unless you can accurately guess how many townies have the role AND how many wolves have that role, there is no fucking point

alternatively, if you have a way of verifying whether someone is or isn't your role, which would at least explain the nonsense you're doing but it's still a very bad approach

[Datisi]

i am trying to critically think about things. but unless you explain to me why scum would or wouldn't have the role you claimed, without it being the vague ~oooh mod wouldn't put this in game~ i'm gonna think you're making it up

ANOTHER PLAYER IN THE GAME CAN LITERALLY CONFIRM THAT I'M TELLING THE TRUTH

i don't think you're lying about your role LMAO

i think the "x number of townies and y number of scum are gonna have this role because i can read the mod's mind" is the part that's made up

[Datisi]

i am thinking about it and i don't get it!

[Datisi]

k

i don't think this game is getting solved via educated guesses

i'm gonna dip out the convo and see if anyone else has any idea

maybe i AM the insane on here who knows

[Datisi]

and i'm not

wowee

[Datisi]

making town get lost in meaningless mechanical discussion that goes nowhere is one of scumtisi's favourite past times and i would probably entertain your ideas if i were scum here

[Datisi]

making town get lost in meaningless mechanical discussion that goes nowhere is one of scumtisi's favourite past times and i would probably entertain your ideas if i were scum here

no
not vs me
and not with what you've posted so far

also this isn't meaningless and this doesn't get us nowhere

no, i think it is

which is exactly why it would be very fun to pretend like i cared about it if i were scum

[Datisi]

whatever

i still don't think you're town but let's see what the rest of the players think first

VOTE: herta

[Datisi]

please tell me you aren't in this camp:

yes i am

[Datisi]

alisae, i gave you opportunities to explain to me how this solves the game past you transcending us mortals and having perfect insight into mod's brain

i don't appreciate being insulted like that for not agreeing with your worldview

[Datisi]

lurker

if i'm wrong on alisae then i can imagine scum being in the less active players and i wanna press them into giving opinions

that good?

[Datisi]

shutting me down and refusing to show any consideration into opening that box

i literally went along your plan and claimed whether i'm informed, AND i asked you MULTIPLE TIMES to explain to me how the fuck do you plan to do this, in a way that doesn't involve mod guessing

but yeah sure

[Datisi]

like i literally didn't even tell anyone else to not claim! i am doing nothing to stop you from asking other people to claim! i'm just saying this plan is not going to work and i feel like you're using my thoughts for pushing me in bad faith!

[Datisi]

UNVOTE: Herta

My thoughts were also much more in line with Datisi, and from four people so far claiming uninformed that seems to be bearing out as more valid. If both scum and Alisae's expected three town have that role that means literally all of us who've yet to weigh in. Just not seeming so likely.

do you have anyone else you want to vote and why are you not doing so

[Datisi]

i'm happy w my gimli vote for now and am looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table

[Datisi]

I feel the most good about Datisi being a wolf ya

can you give me a concise explanation for why i am a wolf this game, considering most of the things you accused me of got shown false

[Datisi]

you claimed i was not thinking critically and that i was a wolf trying to shut you down from doing this uber amazing strategy

i think ari explained that that's simply not how i view setups (and multiple people agreed with me!!) and i pointed out that i did literally nothing to stop you from the massclaim and even did my part

so what other arguments do you have

[Datisi]

- herta is scummy
- sure, why is that scummy
- if you think that's how i approach the "let's keep the town busy with dumbshit mechanical arguments" then you have a great misunderstanding of how my scum mind works

[Datisi]

Datisi, how has anything that happened a waste of time btw?

cool misrep.

your mechanical solving and outguessing the mod would've been a waste of time - that is what i claimed. OBVIOUSLY getting people to take stances on the shitfest we've created isn't a waste of time.

would it have been better to have spent that energy arguing actual reads of the game? probably. would it have happened? i don't know.

but quoting my post where i said "this mechanical discussion is a waste of time" and going "but look at the CONTENT that happened AFTER YOU CALLED IT A WASTE OF TIME, how can you think of it as a waste of time???" is disingenuous as fuck

[Datisi]

Engages with my arguments, sees eye to eye with me.

cool. i'd be doing that as scum. enabling you and drowning the thread.

no, this is NOT me saying that wavelength is scum for doing it.

but your "look, this person is discussing with me about my mech ideas wowee and you're not!" is a bad point. this isn't a place where you teach me about manners, this is a place where you discern alignments. and frankly i find it very weird that you would be taking his posts to be so uber townie because he humoured you. you know better than that, surely.

[Datisi]

because you showed those posts to be a townie example

unless that was a "wavelength is townie, therefore this reaction is town" in which case why the fuck does his response matter if it was going to be townie no matter what he did

[Datisi]

and i think your "this person was nice to me and humoured me and that is townie and this person was dismissive and said my idea was stupid and that is scummy" is a flawed read that you should absolutely know better but whatever, have fun pushing me on that basis i guess

[Datisi]

they're not obvtown. they're pushing me based on nonsense. i've explained as such, which you can see when you read.

[Datisi]

I still have the whole "he's not posting and that's the reaction" in my head. I.. just don't understand what kind of mind that comes from. And what alignement that mind would have to have. I think she's played bad, I'm not sure she's scum. Could very well be, it was in my top two worst votes on that wagon, yes.

@Datisi:

You and Aristeia are the bestest of pals apparently, help me out here with some meta.

i also don't understand it. but if i pushed aristeia every time i didn't understand what she was saying or how she got there, i'd be misyeeting her every game.

i think she's townie. i don't think she'd be pushing herta as scum, it's too easy to get called out for it. i don't think she'd be trying to defuse me/ali.

[Datisi]

what are your current reads and why is gimli town

[Datisi]

gg town <3 sorry i replaced out

thanks for modding! the design was interesting, though there's usually not much that can happen mechanically in a micro game - would be interested in seeing a mini/large of your design

[Datisi]

oh, don't get me wrong! i know designing micro games is deceivingly difficult, but i also find it's a bit of a thankless job. most of the times the roles just don't do anything interesting that you were hoping they would. all i'm saying is that i would be interested in seeing a mini game from the same designer