Micro 1013: IMoA [game over!]

[ta vera]

ok.

VOTE: Moongrass

[ta vera]

hi! i'm happy i'm here too.

[ta vera]

VOTE: VFP

why?

[ta vera]

VOTE: VFP

why?

RVS is a vehicle to get us somewhere and 'don't ask questions' works opposite to that somewhere, which was more to go off of than 'greetings tell' in the case of Andresvmb.

that wasn't a serious command. no one is going to not ask questions because they told us to.

[ta vera]

VOTE: VFP

why?

Also, it is nice to see you immediately channeling energy towards

~solving

though maybe an easy one due to naked vote.

not much solving yet. just responding to things that i see without much direction.

[ta vera]

i did respond. i followed the wagon because wagons are good. i didn't have any questions i wanted to ask. the reason i asked about your vote was because it was completely naked. i understood what VFP was doing.

[ta vera]

wagons are good

Please expand on this as applied to the RVS wagon here.

wagons are very good in rvs because they push the game out of rvs.

[ta vera]

Please expand on this as applied to the RVS wagon here.

As in, why is the wagon on moonlight good?

it had nothing to do with the target of the wagon unless vfp had some greater reason for targeting them.

[ta vera]

As in, why is the wagon on moonlight good?

I said don't ask questions!

oh yeah, i shouldn't have been encouraging them.

[ta vera]

the flavor reminded me of this

Spoiler:

[ta vera]

It’s the best flavour i’ve ever seen.

Talking about flavor is a scumtell

i'm norwegianboyee's partner!

[ta vera]

VOTE: sigmund
hey!!

[ta vera]

Scum will rarely just randomly push a player out of the gate for no real reason because it simply does not look good on them, especially if their target flips town. So i'm not thinking Sigmund is scummy, but i do find them really annoying because i dislike that kinda play even if it's intended as a joke or for a way for them to get a better read on people.

i disagree. it doesn't look bad in rvs. and, i would do that as scum. i think i

have

done it as both alignments. it's more of a playstyle thing.

[ta vera]

As in, why is the wagon on moonlight good?

I said don't ask questions!

Do you always play like this? Because i find it to be extremely scummy.

how is this scummy while sigmund isn't?

[ta vera]

Scum will rarely just randomly push a player out of the gate for no real reason because it simply does not look good on them, especially if their target flips town. So i'm not thinking Sigmund is scummy, but i do find them really annoying because i dislike that kinda play even if it's intended as a joke or for a way for them to get a better read on people.

i disagree. it doesn't look bad in rvs. and, i would do that as scum. i think i

have

done it as both alignments. it's more of a playstyle thing.

It depends on the support they’ll expect to gain from doing it.
As an newly created alt nobody knows them either.

the fact that they are an alt means they probably came into the game planning to act this way regardless.

[ta vera]

As in, why is the wagon on moonlight good?

I said don't ask questions!

Do you always play like this? Because i find it to be extremely scummy.

how is this scummy while sigmund isn't?

Sigmund started it while VFP went with the flow.

but, VFP made the first post of the game

[ta vera]

i have no idea if you're town or not

[ta vera]

hi

[ta vera]

Well there goes the dream...

did you want them to vote for you?

[ta vera]

THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS GAME!
FOR VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE!
EVERYTHING YOU SAY WILL BE HELD AGAINST YOU!
EVERYTHING WILL BE SCRUTINIZED!
YOU WILL BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

i can't tell if this serious or not.

[ta vera]

Well there goes the dream...

did you want them to vote for you?

and, i mean that for real. i'm not trying to make a joke.

[ta vera]

yes. what do you want my opinion on?

[ta vera]

ta vera/VFP.

Is it too soon to call a scumteam? *giggle*

Pedit: your feelings about everyone so far?

we're not. why do you think so?

andresvmb: no thoughts
norwegianboyee: maybe town. his posting is in character with what i've seen of town!him before. i haven't seen scum!him, though.
something_smart: no thoughts
uneven: my gut tells me they might be scum. i don't want to explain any further than that for now.
vfp: unsure
moongrass: to be determined. hearing why you scumread me would help in this department.
sigmund: i'm voting this player because he's attacking my scum partner, norwegianboyee.

pedit: i see that there are more posts. i haven't read them yet.

[ta vera]

How do you feel about ta vera, VFP? Do you like them for town?

No, not town.
It's odd they defended me against NorwegianboyEE. Even stranger to follow up with the reason being that they don't know if I'm town or scum.
It stopped any progression NorwegianboyEE could have had to sort me in the situation or me sort NorwegianboyEE.

i did it because i disagreed with the reason norwegianboyee was voting for you.

[ta vera]

moongrass: to be determined. hearing why you scumread me would help in this department.

You are the shadow behind town, always present but never really there. I don't see any original thoughts considering your activity which gives me a sense of you trying to blend in rather than trying to solve. It even seemed awkward when I shined a light upon you.

i have had original thoughts. where have i said anything that was just following what someone else said? my activity does not look like blending in. is engaging in an argument blending in?

yes. i am awkward. but, i'm not scum.

[ta vera]

moongrass: to be determined. hearing why you scumread me would help in this department.

So did you determine yet?

i'll think about it soon.

[ta vera]

What confidence level do you have to defend me here, ta vera?

i already answered this.

[ta vera]

if everyone votes norwegianboy i can figure out who his partner is by what sound he makes when he breaks

could you say something about me please?

[ta vera]

I think Sigmund is town for all the reason's you're frustrated with him Mr. NEE.

i still disagree with this idea.

[ta vera]

I think Sigmund is town for all the reason's you're frustrated with him Mr. NEE.

Have to be careful with secret alts - I think there are a lot of players capable of playing like this for 'fun' knowing that it is somewhat likely to be townread in this way.

exactly

[ta vera]

I've just never known this to be a successful scum strategy. How would you manipulate the town to do your bidding playing like that? It's a lose lose strat.

that's only if he stays like this the whole game.

[ta vera]

I've just never known this to be a successful scum strategy. How would you manipulate the town to do your bidding playing like that? It's a lose lose strat.

I guess I had not considered that it might continue like this indefinitely.

oh. once again, uneven gives the same response.

[ta vera]

Both your votes were very lowkey. Your first vote on me in rvs "because wagons are good" and your second vote on Sigmund "hey" are very unoriginal and seemingly opportunistic in timing.

my votes aren't the only things i post.

[ta vera]

I think Sigmund is town for all the reason's you're frustrated with him Mr. NEE.

Have to be careful with secret alts - I think there are a lot of players capable of playing like this for 'fun' knowing that it is somewhat likely to be townread in this way.

exactly

So you agree with your scumread you aren't voting?

i agree with someone who might be a scumread.

[ta vera]

ta vera/VFP.

Is it too soon to call a scumteam? *giggle*

Pedit: your feelings about everyone so far?

we're not. why do you think so?

could you respond to this please?

[ta vera]

@uneven, are you still scumreading vfp? if so why?

[ta vera]

i trust that sigmund will make readable contributions eventually.
UNVOTE:

[ta vera]

why do i play like this as scum?

[ta vera]

VOTE: moongrass

[ta vera]

yes?

[ta vera]

VOTE: moongrass

I feel like you didn’t answer why you scumread Moongrass here. What made you place this vote?

i have a hunch that their push on me might come from scum.

[ta vera]

i don't want to explain more because i want to hear more from them. i want to dive into why they are scumreading me.

[ta vera]

The drama between Norwegian and Sigmund is very odd. Though I would be impressed in the unlikely scenario where they are scum hard distancing early.

I don't really have much to comment on until the inactives participate.

why not respond to me?

[ta vera]

if everyone votes norwegianboy i can figure out who his partner is by what sound he makes when he breaks

could you say something about me please?

sup hottie

[ta vera]

Norwegianboy seems like that player should shouldn't be an easy day 1 lim, but ends up being that day 1 lim.
Side note though, let's chill on those kind of insults.

VOTE: ta vera

Ta is.pretty concerned what players think, and I feel is just getting away with muttering in the back ground while Sigmund and Norwegianboy shit up the thread.

actually, i don't at all care what people think about me except in so far as it helps me read them. i am intentionally posting with complete disregard for optics.

once again, my activity not been background. my last vote contradicts this. if i wanted sigmund vs norwegianboy to play out, why would i switch my vote away from sigmund and start attacking moongrass?

[ta vera]

could you say something about me please?

This one I'm slightly torn on though.
Is it a push to further the game and stop whats going on? Or is it just to stay under the radar and look to be asking question?
116 suggests it's the second one. If you think Sigmund is scummy then you would be voicing this over asking their opinion on you.

i have never thought sigmund was scummy.

[ta vera]

it had nothing to do with the target of the wagon

unless vfp had some greater reason for targeting them.

what?

[ta vera]

it had nothing to do with the target of the wagon

unless vfp had some greater reason for targeting them.

what?

It seemed like an odd thing for an uninformed to be thinking about. I asked why a no questions RVS wagon on Moongrass was good and you said it doesn't matter that it was Moongrass unless VFP had other reasons but... what would those reasons even be? Do you have any theories about the ways in which the game is too complex to be a normal?

i meant things like vfp knows moongrass and had some reason they wanted to target them.

[ta vera]

greetings.

why is it that i only ever seem to replace into datisi's games these days? i guess they've just always got the best playerlists (or the only ones with people i know) and i get lucky in checking the replacement thread.

hi!

[ta vera]

VOTE: VFP
I'm breaking up with town you.

interesting! i guess you'll say what you want when you want to.

[ta vera]

can you really call something infamous if it's neither "in" nor "famous"? although, if you're referring to that one thing from newbie games, i think that might be a slight misapplication.

on an unrelated note, it's been bothering me that i used to know who you are but i forgot, so i've been reviewing to try to figure it out. i realize i may have an unhealthy fixation on figuring out who people are (perhaps sometimes to the detriment of figuring out their alignment), but really it's just too much fun.

if you figure out who i am, please don't tell everyone else. i want to keep this a secret alt as much as i can.

[ta vera]

anyways, while we're talking, thoughts on this post?

Are you asking because we weren't actually one away? Or because it is a questionable thing for town to be rooting for?

i asked because i had a few thoughts of my own reading that post, and i guess i thought it might be interesting or useful to hear someone else's.

@ta vera

, how experienced would you personally say you are at mafia? do you tend to get mislynched very often, or not frequently at all?

i'm decently experienced. i'm not great at it though. i usually don't get misyeeted if i make it through day 1. i have been misyeeted on day 1 a number of times. that might be shifting though. i'm playing differently with this account, so that changes my chances of being yeeted. for better or for worse? i do not know.

[ta vera]

why do i play like this as scum?

i still would like to hear a narrative of how my posting up to this point comes from scum. i want an explanation of how my posting was meant to blend in.

[ta vera]

that is directed primarily at moongrass.

[ta vera]

moongrass: to be determined. hearing why you scumread me would help in this department.

You are the shadow behind town, always present but never really there. I don't see any original thoughts considering your activity which gives me a sense of you trying to blend in rather than trying to solve. It even seemed awkward when I shined a light upon you.

i would like it if you would explain with examples how i was "the shadow behind town", "present but never really there", and "trying to blend in". you later talked about my votes, but i posted a lot more than just my votes.[/quote]

[ta vera]

i don't know why i added that end quote tag at the end of my post.

[ta vera]

Don't worry about your read on me, it will become more obvious as the game progresses. I'm more interested in people coming out of the shadows. This is a relatively slow game so a back and forth between us would just encourage others to hide behind it instead of participate.

ok.

[ta vera]

i believe something_smart. it can take effort to come up with thoughts about the game even for town. and if i'm remembering correctly, something_smart often takes a while to become engaged with the game.

[ta vera]

i don't understand why that specific phrase is causing problems for you.

[ta vera]

my

you are displaying some nuanced thought which is good even though some of those nuances i disagree with. maybe you're town.

[ta vera]

lol. i didn't mean to quote just one word. i wasn't trying to copy you.

[ta vera]

VOTE: Something_smart

why have you left vfp?

[ta vera]

VOTE: Something_smart

why have you left vfp?

SS seems something_suspicious to me in his defense. I am not townreading VFP if that is what you're asking. You seem to be defending my suspects today. How do you feel about SS?

other than myself, what other suspects have i been defending?

ss seems fine. i don't scumread what other people are scumreading about him. other than that, he hasn't said much to read him off of.

[ta vera]

for the record i think that this current discourse around SS is basically completely non-effective in sorting him (although it still might be useful for other people). i think that these sorts of accusations are basically autopilot for SS because in my experience some random thing fairly similar to this gets thrown at him like every single game.

i agree with this.

[ta vera]

VOTE: VFP

why?

RVS is a vehicle to get us somewhere and 'don't ask questions' works opposite to that somewhere, which was more to go off of than 'greetings tell' in the case of Andresvmb.

Like how innocent and adorable is this post. Taking a joke into straight seriousness.

not seeing how this is town.

[ta vera]

You even defended Norwegian is a less direct way but voting his troll. I guess we could call that 3 strikes.

what does all of that mean to you?

[ta vera]

What are your thoughts on ta vera?

She feels pretty reasonable, but nothing really stuck out much. Hard to evaluate since she's both reserved and an alt, and the lack of avatar doesn't help.

should i get an avatar?

[ta vera]

VOTE: VFP

why?

RVS is a vehicle to get us somewhere and 'don't ask questions' works opposite to that somewhere, which was more to go off of than 'greetings tell' in the case of Andresvmb.

Like how innocent and adorable is this post. Taking a joke into straight seriousness.

not seeing how this is town.

It is very early solving in more than one direction which tends to be more town than scum imo.

one of those directions, the 'greetings tell', is a very easy observation to make. i think about the so-called greetings tell everytime i see someone say hello in a mafia game.

[ta vera]

i can kind of see why something_smart would call me reserved. what do you mean by it?

[ta vera]

one of those directions, the 'greetings tell', is a very easy observation to make. i think about the so-called greetings tell everytime i see someone say hello in a mafia game

Yes, that was Uneven's point.

it hardly counts as multiple directions.

[ta vera]

one of those directions, the 'greetings tell', is a very easy observation to make. i think about the so-called greetings tell everytime i see someone say hello in a mafia game

Yes, that was Uneven's point.

it hardly counts as multiple directions.

I guess we notice different things.

i have no idea what you're talking about.

[ta vera]

do you really believe that at this point in the game scum needs to be explicitly posting with some kind of "agenda" rather than just blending in via asking questions?

If you think this is what I am doing why not attempt to interact with me? It is strange that both you and ta vera (at an earlier point) have both been happy to simply say 'UneveN is at/near the bottom of my list!' while making no moves towards sorting me.

for my part, i later looked at your iso and decided that there was nothing to my gut feelings about you. it had been about your read on vfp. it looked like it could be fabricated, but the way your later posting went made me think otherwise.

[ta vera]

I think uneven, sigmund and ta vera are town. Including myself that's 4/9.

Iconeum, VFP and Andres are MIA.
Iconeum I can probably assume is town because I feel they would have made more effort as scum.
VFP I like for his questioning of ta vera defending them but didn't like him waiting until I voted there to vote ta vera.
Andres I think is trying to make a presence but failing miserably, unlikely that's AI, more from him would be appreciated.

And I don't know how I feel about SS and nsg yet.
nsg is maybe town but tbc. SS I still don't buy as town, hopefully time will tell.

lots of your reads are based on people's effort or related concepts. i don't know if this means anything.

[ta vera]

i can't shake the feeling that moongrass's reads are made up, but i can't think of anything to ask them.

[ta vera]

I'm pretty impressed with my town read on you being based on literally nothing.

why do you keep saying things i don't understand?

[ta vera]

Andres I think is trying to make a presence but failing miserably, unlikely that's AI, more from him would be appreciated.

I’m not trying to make a presence. If I’m being totally honest, I fell asleep reading this game because a lot of you sound like assholes haha and I didn’t feel like fighting anyone.

i'm not an asshole

[ta vera]

And UneveN feels like Town to me too. So that leaves Ico, VFP, and Moongrass. Which explains my vote.

that doesn't explain your vote. it only explains why you narrowed it down to those three. why did you pick ico?

[ta vera]

my sigmund vote was semi-rvs. i voted him because i wanted him to talk about something other than norwegianboyee. i hoped to get his attention, and it fit with the idea that i was norwegianboyee's scum partner which i had said because sigmund said that talking about flavor was a scumtell, and i had just talked about flavor.

[ta vera]

do you think my scumread on you is bad, Moon?

do my points not hold up according to you? If not, why?

I can understand why I'm being scumread by ta vera and yourself. Your points don't really seem like points as much as they seem like like gotcha moments and needling.

did you mean can't? it looks like that by context.

[ta vera]

VOTE: ICONEUM

NICE BAIT BRO

waht?

[ta vera]

i don't trust that sigmund will make himself very readable anymore

[ta vera]

Andres I think is trying to make a presence but failing miserably, unlikely that's AI, more from him would be appreciated.

I’m not trying to make a presence. If I’m being totally honest, I fell asleep reading this game because a lot of you sound like assholes haha and I didn’t feel like fighting anyone.

i'm not an asshole

I didn’t directly call you an asshole and if you feel attacked I think that says more about you than me haha

i know

[ta vera]

with sigmund in the game, we should be careful about putting people at Y-1

[ta vera]

I am not Not Mafia

so, you're mafia!!!!

[ta vera]

with sigmund in the game, we should be careful about putting people at Y-1

Look at ms goodie two shoes here trying to warn people of the crazy guy with a sword

VOTE: Ta Vera

you've made it clear that you like quickyeets.

[ta vera]

do you think my scumread on you is bad, Moon?

do my points not hold up according to you? If not, why?

I can understand why I'm being scumread by ta vera and yourself. Your points don't really seem like points as much as they seem like like gotcha moments and needling.

did you mean can't? it looks like that by context.

Coming back to this, would you mind elaborating on your read of me aside from not understanding me?

that's the next item on my agenda.

[ta vera]

Ironically, now I feel like nothing important is being said.

yes

[ta vera]

i can't shake the feeling that moongrass's reads are made up, but i can't think of anything to ask them.

So outside of Moon who's scum?

i don't know.

[ta vera]

flavour

Spoiler:

this is horrifying

[ta vera]

Icon's too in your face to be scum.
405 is town minded unless Ico and Moon are the scum team.

Andre was the other town read of mine for what it's worth.

I'll continue later I have work now.

i'm interested in the state of your read on me

[ta vera]

ur all over the place, what are your actual reads at, roughly?

imagine thinking I'll make actual reads this game

hahahahahaha

you say, and then actually make a read that makes sense

[ta vera]

Updated:

Uneven
Ta vera
Nsg
SS
Sigmund
Ico
Andre's
VFP.

it's unlikely Sigmund is partnered with Ico.
Andres/Ico could be interesting but I'm not sure Ico unvotes me as scum.

that was quick! why doesn't what you were just scum reading me apply anymore?

[ta vera]

i probably won't tonight, but actually, maybe i will.

[ta vera]

i probably won't tonight, but actually, maybe i will.

no

[ta vera]

I townread ta vera for calling a scumread on her a good post.

lol

[ta vera]

been busy, might be busy for the rest of today (irl, not today in-game)

I will say that I do like your push on nsg. I don't see scum doing that if nsg is town as they can just conveniently dispose of her N1 with no one questioning that NK.

i would say that you overestimate the amount of people in this playerlist who know who i am and how much the scumteam even ought to fear me, but given even sigmund seems to know me perhaps it's more people in the playerlist than i realized. (although that second part still might be overestimated, i am quite rusty.)

i know you, but only as a moderator.

[ta vera]

could you point to posts where you think this is happening?

The interactions with Moongrass containing these posts:

not seeing how this is town.

it hardly counts as multiple directions.

It didn't really feel to me like she was really disagreeing with the read or that she thought Moongrass was likely to be mafia because of it just seemed... frustrated by my being townread.

but, i was townreading you at this point. why would i be feeling that way and also townreading you?

[ta vera]

what do you mean when you say "emulated behavior"? and, just to be clear, i'm not saying that post is alignment indicative, i'm just saying that it's non-associative-indicative.

I mean that I believe that post to be a behaviour that ta vera has observed other alts engaging in and deployed it here to obscure herself. I do not believe it to be non-associative indicative as even if she is your partner a) that does not necessarily mean she has revealed her identity to you and b) there are other players in the game.

okay, i don't agree. i think that regardless of whether or not ta vera is scum that post was sincere, and i think that my reasons to think that are pretty decent. i suppose i should elaborate on why i think it's non-associative indicative, though: it's not about whether or not ta vera would have told me who she is privately, which i agree is unlikely. i think just the more salient point is that if ta vera were scum and i were also scum, she either would not have made the post at all because she wouldn't expect me to actually try to figure out who she was (given that that sort of thing is vaguely town-adjacent to meta-ing people, something scum doesn't really need to do), or if she did make it she would have made it in the scum PT. i'm not sure if i have a great non-intuitive justification for that second point—it's really just the sort of thing that i feel would get said in the scum PT, especially given that revealing your partner's identity could have ramifications for people's reads and thus would fall under the purview of scum strategy, again pointing towards it being discussed in the PT.

do you have a specific reason to believe that that post was just a copy of observations of how other alts behave, or is it just working backwards from already thinking that ta vera is scum?

i totally would have said that if we were partners

[ta vera]

i'm not in the right frame of mind to be doing this alt properly right now. so, i'm gonna be a little different right now

[ta vera]

let's see here, who's in this game

[ta vera]

i guess i should start by looking into moongrass like i was supposed to ages ago

[ta vera]

good job!

[ta vera]

thank you. i feel very tempted to reveal my identity, but i want to save this alt for the future.

[ta vera]

yes.

[ta vera]

mr. rogers