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Post #26 (isolation #2) » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:12 am
Postby Raya36 »
I can see a massclaim being helpful later in game to lie detect and try to mechanically solve the game but as it is now I don't think town would gain much info whereas it would really help scum
In post 28, Flea The Magician wrote:I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.
Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.
vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town
The shots are at night so you mean everyone claims who they killed the next day? Scum would just have one of their own claim to be a vig and then claim the nk as their shot.
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Post #42 (isolation #7) » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:35 pm
Postby Raya36 »
Idk, personally too much wifom about the 1 scum or no kill for me to be happy with that plan. Mafia no kills and then we're just picking off our vigs because we assumed mafia had no reason to no kill.
All kills will be claimed though. If we go through with this mafia have no choice but to have 1 claim vig and the kill or else we have a bunch of confirmed townies. Unless they're assuming there won't be many vigs that aren't blank and they're ok with that amount getting confirmed. Then they're obvious targets for the kill because they're confirmed town and also confirmed not to be bombs.
In post 25, nepenthe wrote:no but on a serious note, i don't think massclaiming is beneficial in that if i'm understanding this correctly, it just sets scum up with an easier path on who to kill/needlessly sets town back a bit.
In post 26, Raya36 wrote:I can see a massclaim being helpful later in game to lie detect and try to mechanically solve the game but as it is now I don't think town would gain much info whereas it would really help scum
welp... ok
I should have read the entire thread before posting
that’s fair. I forgot about the kill PoE
you're alright. if it helps, i'm just messing with you but i like your flow of thought thereafter and it feels natural. inclined to think this slot is town - i don't see scum asking for a massclaim and then rebounding with "forgetting about kill PoE" - it feels too innocent, like... not sure how to explain that better but i just think ejj's sincere here and would've probably tried to spin it by making up a reason for why massclaim could be beneficial for town if he was scum and had something to gain from it. does that make sense?
In post 61, Raya36 wrote:As someone who doesn't know that much about the pros and cons of mass claims, just trying to get my thoughts out even if they're basic
Mass-claims is generally a mid to late game thing once we've gotten a few flips and the benefits of claiming outweighs the benefits of the opposite. Right now doesn't seem like that's a great idea.
I think I've only ever done last day mass claims and I can't think of many setups where I'd be comfortable with a D1 massclaim
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Post #78 (isolation #13) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:19 am
Postby Raya36 »
In post 70, MiniVirgo wrote:The setup contains 3-5 vigilantes, and 2-4 bombs or supersaints.
Bombs remaining unclaimed will make Mafia ultimately scared as to who to shoot and/or waste their utility with the factional doctor shot (which I didn't know existed until reading the mechanics again) or not shoot at all as a double down of framing a Vigilante claim and/or using the Mafia NK to secure a claim themselves . Although this can also double kill Town which doubles down as clearing PoE if the vigilantes are being scum-read. Bombs shouldn't claim and neither should Supersaints, and in extension Vigilantes claiming will out both and that's not good so I'm against a mass-claim. We can probably utilize Supersaints by getting select players to hammer as well to be fair.
This was midnight setup spec though so probably wrong, now I'm done with that and I'm on to reading people.
Come to think of it, from memory ejji yeeted iioa on us immediately and is reading Kop as scum because they are doing iioa as well?
- JV
I like the selecting a pool to do the hammers idea.
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Post #92 (isolation #19) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:58 am
Postby Raya36 »
I like to move my vote around and vote players for pressure to help sort, not necessarily because I'd be ok with them being elimed. Targeting players for low contribution is ok but I don't think necessarily the best move and what I'm doing is equally good. Focusing on a player that won't get elimed does help and it doesn't mean I'm only focusing on them.
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Post #127 (isolation #21) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:31 am
Postby Raya36 »
That whole interaction with Kop was weird on Kop's side. The scumslip I can see but I don't think scum with any experience would panic and claim like that. Especially in the middle of defending themselves.
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Post #166 (isolation #25) » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:02 pm
Postby Raya36 »
I'm still not fully convinced this is a scumslip. I think the possibility of a genuinely confused townie is there. What's throwing me off is the claim. Especially where he supposedly is against mass-claiming, I don't see why he snuck a claim in.
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Post #167 (isolation #26) » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:04 pm
Postby Raya36 »
Also if Kop is scum shouldn't he be aware that the doctor is a scum role, not a town role? And I don't think this makes sense for trying to play the oblivious townie card.
In post 166, Raya36 wrote:I'm still not fully convinced this is a scumslip. I think the possibility of a genuinely confused townie is there. What's throwing me off is the claim. Especially where he supposedly is against mass-claiming, I don't see why he snuck a claim in.
I wasn't entirely convinced it was a full slip myself,but ya know, D1 you need something to poke at. The claim and later justification attempts kinda sold me on it though.
The justification wasn't horrible considering it has been a bit since he played here. It doesn't make that much sense to me but it is possible. But the claim was horrible and written in a way that looked like he didn't want it to stand out.
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Post #193 (isolation #33) » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:57 am
Postby Raya36 »
It's early to think about but even if Kop didn't slip he's probably not a good slot to have towards endgame so I'm not opposed at all to eliminating him
In post 193, Raya36 wrote:It's early to think about but even if Kop didn't slip he's probably not a good slot to have towards endgame so I'm not opposed at all to eliminating him
What gives you that assumption?
Because if it comes down to it at endgame I would always eliminate you because of that slip unless you give me a good reason as to why it wasn't a slip
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Post #211 (isolation #38) » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:27 am
Postby Raya36 »
I imagine if it was a scumslip his partner is staying on the quiet side about it. It would look bad for them to defend him but his partner might also be unsure about bussing yet
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Post #231 (isolation #41) » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:08 pm
Postby Raya36 »
I actually can't think of too many games I've played on here that weren't some sort of role madness game that had a doctor. But I'm not a huge fan of normals so maybe that's why? I might take some time tonight to check out Kop's games.
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Post #255 (isolation #43) » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:32 am
Postby Raya36 »
Procrastination at it's finest:
Spoiler: Kop Doctor Games
LN223 - no doc
MN2095 - no doc
Mic880 - no doc
Mic879 - no doc
LN221 - no doc
MN2038 - no doc
MN2024 - no doc
O735 - no doc
Mic809 - DOCTOR
Mini1990 - no doc
Mini1956 - Sort of doctor
O717 - DOCTOR
O716 - no doc
O712 - DOCTOR
O710 - no doc
MN1984 - no doc
O705 - no doc
O707 - no doc
O697 - no doc
O696 - no doc
O693 - no doc
I think that should be enough to say that Kop should not be assuming a doc role and it's no longer sampling bias
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Post #258 (isolation #44) » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:39 am
Postby Raya36 »
In post 103, Kop wrote:
Yes but the point is, the true vigilantes will know they are blanks right after shooting, but when claiming it, they can't back the claim up so it still doesn't progress us any further forward and we're left aiming at a pool of claims to sort through and giving scum a path of where they can shoot within because they will know who the real vigilante is, and what pool the
doctor
, bombs, and supersaints are in.
In this post Kop assumes there is a doctor. There is no town doctor but there is a chance of a scum doctor. He claims that he didn't read the setup and knew about the vigs, bombs, and supersaints from conversation in the thread, and he just assumed that there would be a doctor because most basic games have a doctor (not true). His past games don't suggest he should be assuming a doctor because very few of his most recent past games had a doctor.
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Post #260 (isolation #45) » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:48 am
Postby Raya36 »
Yeah same. The only thing I'm confused about is if he is scum and knows that one of his buddies is a doctor then why assume that it's also a town role?
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Post #263 (isolation #47) » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:56 am
Postby Raya36 »
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a slip but it makes even less sense as genuine and also way too large of a coincidence that scum have the doctor ability
LN223 - no doc
MN2095 - no doc
Mic880 - no doc
Mic879 - no doc
LN221 - no doc
MN2038 - no doc
MN2024 - no doc
O735 - no doc
Mic809 - DOCTOR
Mini1990 - no doc
Mini1956 - Sort of doctor
O717 - DOCTOR
O716 - no doc
O712 - DOCTOR
O710 - no doc
MN1984 - no doc
O705 - no doc
O707 - no doc
O697 - no doc
O696 - no doc
O693 - no doc
I think that should be enough to say that Kop should not be assuming a doc role and it's no longer sampling bias
I fucking love you.
Just goes to show that I'll do literally anything but what I need to do
LN223 - no doc
MN2095 - no doc
Mic880 - no doc
Mic879 - no doc
LN221 - no doc
MN2038 - no doc
MN2024 - no doc
O735 - no doc
Mic809 - DOCTOR
Mini1990 - no doc
Mini1956 - Sort of doctor
O717 - DOCTOR
O716 - no doc
O712 - DOCTOR
O710 - no doc
MN1984 - no doc
O705 - no doc
O707 - no doc
O697 - no doc
O696 - no doc
O693 - no doc
I think that should be enough to say that Kop should not be assuming a doc role and it's no longer sampling bias
Yeah that probably proves that they slipped tbf, whether or not that's a scum-slip is debatable, although I'm leaning towards that it is.
- JV
I'm thinking Kop is just scum too. He hasn't done much unrelated to mechanics or the slip thing. His latest townreading me and Flea for pushing the slip and analyzing the reactions sounds like scum trying to sound indifferent.
In post 281, MiniVirgo wrote:Anyone voting Kop and putting them at lolhammer range with N_M in the game should be considered a scum-claim, I am not taking this lightly
Idk, I think it's best for more content since we have 4 days or so left. But the game has been pretty stagnant so maybe we need a flip.
In post 289, Raya36 wrote:Why don't you think my push comes from scum?
But it's clearly not a common role in basic setups. A lot of your games were opens and normals and very few had doctors.
I just don't think scum would go to the level that you have gone to try disprove such statements.
Like I said, I don't remember what roles were in the previous games that I've played in. Also It doesn't mean that it's not common in other basic games that I haven't participated in.
If you're town that's exactly what you should be thinking scum would do though?
If you can't remember the roles in the games you've participated in I doubt the games you haven't would influence your understanding of how common doc is
In post 289, Raya36 wrote:Why don't you think my push comes from scum?
But it's clearly not a common role in basic setups. A lot of your games were opens and normals and very few had doctors.
I just don't think scum would go to the level that you have gone to try disprove such statements.
Like I said, I don't remember what roles were in the previous games that I've played in. Also It doesn't mean that it's not common in other basic games that I haven't participated in.
If you're town that's exactly what you should be thinking scum would do though?
If you can't remember the roles in the games you've participated in I doubt the games you haven't would influence your understanding of how common doc is
Well at the stage we're at, I'm on what, 3 votes, and the influence is going in this direction, I don't think scum would have to go to the extent to keep it progressing when it's been the talk of the past couple of pages. The only thing that would come from this if it was scum mindset, was to buy credibility when the lynch is eventually done. But I just don't see that from your tone and effort.
Scum effort too. I effort more as scum actually. If you're town how do you know 2 if the 3 votes aren't scum and the other is just mislead town?