Nomic

[shadyforce]

I'm very, very confused... !

/in

[shadyforce]

I'm not sure what you mean by concurrent rule set. Can someone make that clearer. Regardless it sounds like a good rule.

Vote: YES

!

[shadyforce]

Just out of curiosity, can I unvote?

[shadyforce]

I invoke judgement on your interpretation of rule 111.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal

before the vote

. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

I claim that according to the wording of the above rule (111), and since voting has already started on the proposed rule (301), no amendments may be made to the rule and voting must continue until everyone has voted.

Further, and until such a time as someone points out where the rules as they stand specify otherwise, I am withdrawing my vote and

voting: NO

.

[shadyforce]

Ok, so scrap all votes, make your amendments and when everyone is happy that it makes sense, we'll vote on it.

[shadyforce]

A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate.

There is alrady a mandatory time, it is just at the discression of the proposer or the judge if asked.

Anyway, by

the numbered and currently active rules

do you mean all of the rules currently in effect which is all the 1**, 2** and 3** rules?

[shadyforce]

Vote: YES

!

[shadyforce]

Ok, what heppened to first let's discuss this???

[shadyforce]

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate.

The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

Ok, so finally I can see the rule which governs this. It was up to Fishbulb to decide the length of time for discussion to take place. He hasn't yet so technically discussion has not started yet and voting has definitely not started.

[shadyforce]

Yes, pick a time, preferrably GMT. (everyone knows how far they are from GMT, not everyone knows how far they are from CET, PST, or HADT.

Anyway, I feel your proposal needs to deal with the problem of voting. As it stands, everyone must vote on a proposal, and there is no allowance for people absent... the game simply can't proceed.

Perhaps if people fail make their proposal or people fail to vote after 72 hours, then the game proceeds without them and they are docked 10 points, and 3 hits -> their out or something.

I don't think there should be any allowance for pre-warned absenteesm. I think if they are going to be away, then they are still disrupting the game, and if they are going to be away 3 seperate times then they really shouldn't be in the game at all.

It's only going to create more complications and grey areas.

[shadyforce]

Immutable Rules

101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.


Mutable Rules

201. Players shall alternate turns in alphabetical order by screenname.

202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) throwing one die once and adding the number of points on its face to one's score.

In mail and computer games, instead of throwing a die, players subtract 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

207. Each player always has exactly one vote.

208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points.

In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates.

The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

301. If a player finds they posted the first post on a new page, he or she shall immediately post the numbered and currently active rules. If the player does this before anyone else posts, he or she shall recieve 5 points. If the player does not do this before anyone else posts, he or she shall lose 10 points.

[shadyforce]

I think with 3 days grace period, 10 'lives' is far too much. I think we should be harder on inactives. It's not going to be that often any of us miss more than 72 hours that often do I say 3 lives is reasonable.

[shadyforce]

CoolBot: Compare it with rule 111 itself. Rule 111 deals with questionable proposals, precedures for amending those, time limits for voting, who decides time limits, etc. But it deals with one general area: precedure for voting on proposals.

Just like proposal 302, which may have several parts, but deals with the one area: absenteeism.

[shadyforce]

Vote: YES

!

[shadyforce]

My vote is same...

yes

.

[shadyforce]

Actually, what I was planning on doing is getting rid of any distinction between mutable rules and non-mutable rules and making them all mutable.

[shadyforce]

If you have any examples of how it would be bad in this game then please let me know.

[shadyforce]

I propose that by making all rules mutable, and thus easily chcngaeable, it will make the game much more fun, and played at a quicker pace. Particularly this example where we have to change a rule to mutable and

then

, in a seperate turn, change it as you claim is the case.

So I beg you to reconsider your stance on the issue CoolBot.

[shadyforce]

Immutable Rules

101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.


Mutable Rules

201. Players shall alternate turns in alphabetical order by screenname.

202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) throwing one die once and adding the number of points on its face to one's score.

In mail and computer games, instead of throwing a die, players subtract 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

207. Each player always has exactly one vote.

208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points.

In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates.

The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

301. If a player finds they posted the first post on a new page, he or she shall immediately post the numbered and currently active rules. If the player does this before anyone else posts, he or she shall recieve 5 points. If the player does not do this before anyone else posts, he or she shall lose 10 points.

[shadyforce]

Aargh, that's all PolarBoy's fault. He didn't update the first post .

[shadyforce]

The Edit button is looking very tempting.

[shadyforce]

Rule 302 was active when I posted the new post on the page. I failed to to include it in my post so I lose 10 pts, no complaints.

Me blaming you for not having the first post updated was just me being me, and being angry with myself. Please read

absolutely nothing

into that.

[shadyforce]

Yae

[shadyforce]

Rock-paper-scissors... *sigh*

I agree completely. No ambiguity there. Straight to vote?

[shadyforce]

lol, well done mate.

[shadyforce]

Why don't we just pm the choices to the particular judge in the situation. We could also having a rule that states the judge must make his decision as consistent with the rules as he can, or something like that. In other words a rule that states the judge can't make a judgement based on personal gain, and must judge fairly.

[shadyforce]

Well, obviously coherent enough to remember to do that. Yeah, I think we should just vote now.

[shadyforce]

No!... I mean

yes

!

[shadyforce]

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

*Whispering*: And the tension is building for this magnificent occasion. Two giants of the Rock-Paper-Scissors game standing face to face. Two competitors, only one can be triumphant. I haven't felt tension like this since the great Bobby Aldridge, the RPS champion back in 1963. The prize for these 2 modern day giants of the game is huge, and both are desperate to get it. Standing like statues, each trying to psyche the other out. They raise their arms slowly, trying their best to supress any emotion other than sheer determination. As they judge signals the start, and counts out loud the number one, they both raise and drop their arms in unison, with the rest of their bodies standing so still. I don't know how they do it. As the judge calls out two, you can see the tension building in their face, they almost can't stand the tension. And this is it, the moment we have all been waiting for. The judge opens his mouth and the 't' sound starts. The competitors raise their hand for the third and final time. Not an inch of movement from either of their clenched fists. And slowly and carefully they both drop their arms for the final time, about to reveal their choice. The judge still on the 'rrr' part watching closely, and just then the judge finally mouthes 'eee' and the hands spring open to reveal...

[shadyforce]

Yeah, as I recall correctly, Mathcam tried to catch me out within seconds.

[shadyforce]

Rule 305:

All rules are now mutable, and any rule or part of a rule which requires a distinction between mutable and non-mutable rules is now obsolete.

Tentative 48 hour deadline for discussion, though I may change that, depending...

Any questions, comments, criticisms, suggestions?

[shadyforce]

Well, the rule you quoted is an example of the rule that now becomes obsolete, or at least I intended it to. I feel rather than make it more stable, it will make it more interesting. It means there is a lot more we can do, and I think nthe game will move at a faster pace because of it.

[shadyforce]

Vote: no

[shadyforce]

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

Now we just have to think up a purpose for this mysterious variable.

[shadyforce]

No, I'm prepared to vote once Scalebane officially ends discussion.

[shadyforce]

What about me? Don't I count?

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

Dammit Cam, your too slow!

[shadyforce]

I don't like this proposal, since it will turn into a tactical race to see who can prod the new person first.

[shadyforce]

That's not sniping, he had 3/4 of an hour. Shame on you Cam!

[shadyforce]

Vote: No

[shadyforce]

I'm happy with the proposal as well, but I also insist on no negative values. Where is the order list for choosing territories?

[shadyforce]

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

I'll take territory 8 and name it

Sharkland

.

[shadyforce]

I don't think you can have rules with multiple parts.
I think you should have rules with multple parts which are closely related or derived from each other.
I don't think we should have rules with parts that are vastly different.

[shadyforce]

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

I propose an amendment to rule 307:

Adding on at the end of Section B: Any player who abstains due to failure to vote within 72 hours shall lose 10 points.

Rule 315. (Abstentions)
A. Players may abstain from any vote.
B. Every player is an eligible voter. Any player who does not vote within 72 hours of the first vote cast shall abstain from the vote. Any player who abstains due to failure to vote within 72 hours shall lose 10 points.
C. If a player abstains from a vote, then his or her vote does not count for or against the proposal. Further, an abstaining vote does not count towards the required number of yes votes to pass.
D. If more than 50% of the players abstain, the vote fails due to lack of interest.
E. If Proposal 306 passes, it shall take the number 307, and Clause E shall be deleted.

[shadyforce]

Oh, I might as well delete clause E while I'm amending the rule, if no one objects to that. I'll give another few hours for objections then we can start voting.

[shadyforce]

Proposal replacing Rule 307...

Rule 315. (Abstentions)
A. Players may abstain from any vote.
B. Every player is an eligible voter. Any player who does not vote within 72 hours of the first vote cast shall abstain from the vote. Any player who abstains due to failure to vote within 72 hours shall lose 10 points.
C. If a player abstains from a vote, then his or her vote does not count for or against the proposal. Further, an abstaining vote does not count towards the required number of yes votes to pass.
D. If more than 50% of the players abstain, the vote fails due to lack of interest.

Voting begins as of the post above this.

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

Yes. They can simply type 'Vote: abstain'.

[shadyforce]

Currently active and numbered Rule-set:

Immutable Rules

101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

Mutable Rules

201. Players shall alternate turns in alphabetical order by screenname.

202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) throwing one die once and adding the number of points on its face to one's score.

In mail and computer games, instead of throwing a die, players subtract 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

207. Each player always has exactly one vote.

208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points.

In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates.

The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

301. If a player finds they posted the first post on a new page, he or she shall immediately post the numbered and currently active rules. If the player does this before anyone else posts, he or she shall recieve 5 points. If the player does not do this before anyone else posts, he or she shall lose 10 points.

302. Each player has 72 hours from the time their turn begins to submit a new proposal for voting. If he/she does not submit a proposal on time, the turn will move to the next player. If any player forfeits their turn three times during the course of the game, they shall be removed from the game.

304. (Trial by Combat) After any vote (proposed, say, by Player A) in which all but one of the eligible voters votes yes (say, Player B), Player A may challenge Player B to a game of Paper-Rock-Scissors (conducted via PM to the current Judge, or the next player up that is not Player A or B). If Player A wins, Player B must change his vote to yes and the proposition pases. If Player B wins, Player A must give Player B one tenth (rounded up) of his current points, with a minimum of five points (this can make Player A go negative). The only bond preventing the game's judge from cheating is his honor at mafiascum.

Rule 307. (Abstentions)
A. Players may abstain from any vote.
B. Every player is an eligible voter. Any player who does not vote within 72 hours of the first vote cast shall abstain from the vote.
C. If a player abstains from a vote, then his or her vote does not count for or against the proposal. Further, an abstaining vote does not count towards the required number of yes votes to pass.
D. If more than 50% of the players abstain, the vote fails due to lack of interest.
E. If Proposal 306 passes, it shall take the number 307, and Clause E shall be deleted.

Rule 309. (An Additional Variable) Each player shall be assigned an absract attribute called x, which has an initial value of 0 and may be referred to as player.x or player's x, where player is the name of the player which x belongs to. This attribute may be manipulated by other rules. Also, after every vote on a rule is completed, each player's x value shall be increased by 840.

Rule 310. (Transmuted from rule 112) The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

Rule 312. (Nomic Land)
A. There exist nine territories.
1. Each territory is uniquely designated by a number 0 through 8.
2. Every territory, t, borders territories t-1, t+1, t-3, and t+3. If, in calculating bordering territories, a territory number larger than 8 is calculated, subtract 9. If, in calculating bordering terriotries, a territory number less than 0 is calculated, add 9.
B. There exists a moon that is always above a territory.
1. The territory the moon is above is the territory with a number equal to the remainder of (P-2)/9, where P is the current proposal number.
2. If any player has no territories, that player is in exile on the moon.

C. Territory Names
1. Names
0 - New Quahog
1 - Tyrannos
2 - PBAJ
3 - The West Pole
4 - The Core
6 - pi
7 - Botia
8 - Sharkland2. Territory names may not be changed


D. Territory Points
1. Every player has territory points equal to 2^(m-1), where m is the number of territories owned.
2. If a player has territory 4, subtract 56 points from his or her territory points.
3. A player may not have negative territory points.
4. When determing a winner, territory points are added to a player's points.

Rule 313. (Currency) The variable x shall be renamed "Gnomes", or G$ for short. During a voting round, a player may choose to lose 5000 Gnomes in order to receive an additional vote for that voting round. A player may only gain one extra vote per round in this way. Also he may not do this if all players have voted for a turn or doing so would give him a negative value for gnomes. Buying a vote increases the total number of votes by one, increasing the number required for majority accordingly. This rule overrides Rule 207.

[shadyforce]

Sorry,

vote: no

, mainly cos my proposal was rejected.

[shadyforce]

Well, I thought of just posting to deny him of his points, but then I thought, since the purpose of that particular rule is to make it easier for people to access the rules, I might as well, just plant the rules at the top of the page myself, since Stewie forgot. Anything wrong with that?

[shadyforce]

[shadyforce]

I like it.

[shadyforce]

Well, if we're starting to vote...

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

I think it's very compicated.

[shadyforce]

Ok, I don't mind this one. It seems that it is very hard to get there and even harder to get back there once you've been once so it shouldn'tbe abused. I'm prepared to vote on it.

[shadyforce]

Vote: YES

[shadyforce]

I'm worried about the way this game is progressing. I fear that is getting too complicated, and that is why there is lurkiness among some of the players. It is just a lot to take in.

The best games are all simple in concept but deep in playability. I hope this game moves towards that again, and that is likely something I'll try and do when my turn comes around.

As for this proposal, well it's too powerful, also very dear, and gives an advantage to the leading player as opposed to players who fall behind. so I'll most likely be rejecting it, though I'm still open to being swayed.

[shadyforce]

Currently active and numbered RulesSet

Immutable Rules

101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

Mutable Rules

201. Players shall alternate turns in alphabetical order by screenname.

202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) throwing one die once and adding the number of points on its face to one's score.

In mail and computer games, instead of throwing a die, players subtract 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

207. Each player always has exactly one vote.

208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points.

In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates.

The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

New Rules

301. If a player finds they posted the first post on a new page, he or she shall immediately post the numbered and currently active rules. If the player does this before anyone else posts, he or she shall recieve 5 points. If the player does not do this before anyone else posts, he or she shall lose 10 points.

304. (Trial by Combat) After any vote (proposed, say, by Player A) in which all but one of the non-abstaining voters (say, Player B) votes yes, Player A has 48 hours after the completion of the vote to challenge Player B to a game of Paper-Rock-Scissors (conducted via PM to the current Judge, or in the case that Player B is the judge, the next player up that is neither Player A nor Player B). The only bond preventing the game's judge from cheating is his honor at mafiascum.

- If Player A wins, Player B forfeits all points earned directly from voting no and Player B must choose one of Player B's territories (if one exists) to cede to Player A. If Player A wins and Player B has no territories, Player A may immediately assign/change ownership of the territory "The Core" to any player, including himself.
- If Player B wins, Player A loses G$5,000 (not to go below 0) and Player B gains G$10,000. If Player A does not have G$5,000, Player B may immediately assign/change ownership of the territory "The Core" to any player, including himself.

305. Abstentions

A. Players may abstain from any vote.
B. Every player is an eligible voter. Any player who does not vote within 72 hours of the first vote cast shall abstain from the vote.
C. If a player abstains from a vote, then his or her vote does not count for or against the proposal. Further, an abstaining vote does not count towards the required number of yes votes to pass.
D. If more than 50% of the players abstain, the vote fails due to lack of interest.
E. If Proposal 306 passes, it shall take the number 307, and Clause E shall be deleted.


309. (An Additional Variable) Each player shall be assigned an absract attribute called x, which has an initial value of 0 and may be referred to as player.x or player's x, where player is the name of the player which x belongs to. This attribute may be manipulated by other rules. Also, after every vote on a rule is completed, each player's x value shall be increased by 840.

310. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

312 Nomic Land
A. There exist nine territories.
1. Each territory is uniquely designated by a number 0 through 8.
2. Every territory, t, borders territories t-1, t+1, t-3, and t+3. If, in calculating bordering territories, a territory number larger than 8 is calculated, subtract 9. If, in calculating bordering terriotries, a territory number less than 0 is calculated, add 9.
B. There exists a moon that is always above a territory.
1. The territory the moon is above is the territory with a number equal to the remainder of (P-2)/9, where P is the current proposal number.
2. If any player has no territories, that player is in exile on the moon.
C. Territory Names
1. Names
0 - New Quahog
1 - Tyrannos
2 - PBAJ
3 - The West Pole
4 - The Core
6 - pi
7 - Botia
8 - Sharkland

2. Territory names may not be changed
D. Territory Points
1. Every player has territory points equal to 2^(m-1), where m is the number of territories owned.
2. If a player has territory 4, subtract 56 points from his or her territory points.
3. A player may not have negative territory points.
4. When determing a winner, territory points are added to a player's points.


313. (Currency) The variable x shall be renamed "Gnomes", or G$ for short. During a voting round, a player may choose to lose 5000 Gnomes in order to receive an additional vote for that voting round. A player may only gain one extra vote per round in this way. Also he may not do this if all players have voted for a turn or doing so would give him a negative value for gnomes. Buying a vote increases the total number of votes by one, increasing the number required for majority accordingly. This rule overrides Rule 207.

317. Going Once! Going Twice!
A. A player has 72 hours to make a proposal.
1. If a player does not make a proposal, the proposal will immediatly go to auction. Further, the player will receive a strike.
2. If a player accumalates three or more strikes, that player will lose 25 points. Further, the player lose three strikes.

B. Auctions
1. When an auction occurs, the player who made the last proposal will be the Auctioneer.
2. Players may bid Gnomes by PMing the Auctioneer their bid. Players may not make a larger bid than the number of Gnomes they posess. The Auctioneer may not bid during an Auction.
3. 48 hours after the Auction begins, the Auctioneer will declare the winner and post all the bids and the time they were received.
a. The winner is the player who bid the highest number of Gnomes.
b. In the event of a tie, the player with the earliest high bid is the winner.
c. If there is still a tie, the player with the least amount of points is the winner.

C. Winning an Auction
1. A number of Gnomes equal the the winner's bid is deducted from the winner.
2. The winner of an auction will make a proposal within 48 hours.
3. If the winner of an auction does not make a proposal, he or she will receive two strikes and the turn ends.
4. The winner of an auction will receive all points for the made proposal, unless the points are negative. If the points are negative, the player whose turn it is will receive the points.


318. To The Moon, Alice!

A. There exists a categorization of players known as "Visiting the Moon". Any number of players may be a member of this category at any given time.

A. When the moon is over a player's territory, that player may choose to forfeit his vote on the current proposal and lose G$20000 to travel to the moon.
1. The player must make public the decision to travel to the moon before the voting deadline.
2. The visit to the moon begins immediately after the voting period on the current proposal ends.
3. While on the moon, the player is assigned to the "Visiting the Moon" category of players.
4. After seven consecutive proposals, the player is removed from the "Visiting the Moon" category of players.
B. While in the "Visitng the Moon" category of players, a player has the following changes made to his gameplay.
1. Any purchased vote costs G$10000, but if used to vote no on a proposal, automatically causes the proposal to fail. The player must state his intent to use this vote to vote no at the time of purchase.
2. Any points gained are doubled.

[shadyforce]

Agreed,

Vote: No

[shadyforce]

Oops. sorry guys. I didn't check this in a while.

[shadyforce]

Yeah, introducing new players is a good enough idea. Once you clear up the technicalities, I'll most likely vote for it.

[shadyforce]

Vote: Yes

[shadyforce]

As much as I hate to admit it... this game is really too much for me. I found I have neither the time nor will to follow and play to my best in this game. You accomplished what the goal apparantly is... to make it so complicated, you force a win from fellow players. I didn't think it would turn out that way, but now that it has, I can see that it is not the game I was hoping for.

I was just about to resign when I saw others post suggesting the game be conceded to CoolBot so it seems maybe I'm not alone.

[shadyforce]

Ok guys. I'm sorry, but since the game has really lost all my interest, I'm going to resign from the game under Rule 113. Have fun guys.