Nomic II - Moratorium Wins!!!

[yabbaguy]

/in

I'll have votes later.

[yabbaguy]

Just to simplify having to click back and forth between the two threads:

[POSSIBLEtinyurlSPAM]_com/nomic2rules

(replace with a dot, obviously; the link's censored by the forums)

(or go to preview_[POSSIBLEtinyurlSPAM]_com/[same] if you think I'm Rickrolling you.)

[yabbaguy]

Votes (and a lot of hammers):

P7: Yea
P8: Yea
P9: Nay
P11: Yea
P12: Nay
P14: Nay
P19: Yea
P21: Nay (would probably contradict P7, which permits re-starts)
P22: Yea
P23: Yea
P28: Nay
P29: --no vote yet-- this one confuses me.
P30: Nay
P31: Yea... reluctantly
P32: Nay- unnecessary
P33: Yea
P34: Yea
P35: Nay
P37: --no vote yet--
P38: Nay to the RPG twist-in
P39: Yea
P40: Nay- back of the line, bub!
P41: Nay
P43: Nay
P44: Nay. Waffles FTW.
P45: Yea
P46: Nay
P47: Nay. Want simplicity? Just opt out.

[yabbaguy]

Apologies, last post was started last night, and didn't see the update. Ignore all already-hammered propositions.

[yabbaguy]

P48-51: Nay
P52-53: Yea
P54: Nay
P55: Yea
P56-57: Nay
P58: Yea
P59: Nay

[yabbaguy]

I'm really pissed off, I try to help myself out, but I just shot myself in the gut.

[yabbaguy]

P60: Yea
P62: Nay
P63: Yea
P64: Nay... the syntax is flawed
P68: Yea
P69: Yea

Does not count, must be bolded

[yabbaguy]

Fixed:

P60: Yea
P62: Nay
P63: Yea
P64: Nay... the syntax is flawed
P68: Yea
P69: Yea

[yabbaguy]

New Job Title: High Riser

I could get used to Moratorium, Pimp Daddy.

[yabbaguy]

P65-67: Nay
P68: Yea
P70: Yea
P71: Nay (Quality of report apparently means nothing)

[yabbaguy]

No to 21

What kind of report?

And chenhsi has inadvertently killed a proposition he voted yea on. Smooth!

[yabbaguy]

Whatever.

Sent.

[yabbaguy]

However, chenhsi: EoCaD still failed 21, right?

[yabbaguy]

P29: Yea
P37: Yea
P71: Yea (change)
P72: Nay
P73: Yea (but everyone, please pass 45 as well!)

[yabbaguy]

dizardin, OFMIC didn't address Moratorium, Pimp Daddy correctly. (301)

[yabbaguy]

To do:

-pass the unlimited rules resolution
-set font and character limits on job titles
-make job title reference NOT a grade 3 offense. Too harsh.

I can't propose. Someone else do it.

[yabbaguy]

Are you saying that you have a second account you wish to enter the game with P62?

If so, you deserve no explanation.

[yabbaguy]

I think that your alt hasn't been specified in the rule, and is therefore too vague to judge in the context of this game.

Therefore, I stay nay.

PS: Why does everyone think it's spelt "Yay?" It's "Yea."

[yabbaguy]

I advise the panel against quoting. However, Moratorium (Pimp Daddy) is gonna be in big trouble in a matter of seconds...

P74: Yea

[yabbaguy]

Bid 1 $$$ for pops' suffrage

Bet 100 $$$ on the 1:2 horse

[yabbaguy]

At least I didn't quit like some of you people!

Mod... this should be pretty predictable, but sending new corp name.

[yabbaguy]

You didn't learn!

[yabbaguy]

Auction Suffrage 1 Week

[yabbaguy]

P75: Nay. What's eligible to mine?
P76: Nay. What's eligible to make?
P77: Nay. Will you kindly SPECIFY the die to be rolled?
P78: Yea.
P79: Nay.
P80: Nay. Pointless!

[yabbaguy]

Proposal Idea (unofficial obviously)

- Players can move to reject a player's job title, if they feel it to obnoxious.. Majority prevails, and if successful, the player reverts back to CEO.

[yabbaguy]

Empking, CEO, is the title.

Moratorium, who obviously can't follow his own dumb rules, perhaps job titles should be done away with. I'd vote for either that or the penalty reduction. That, or Juls be forced to use job titles correctly just for complaining.

[yabbaguy]

How in the world is changing the goal by 5000 $$$ gonna do a thing pops, Handservant?

P81: Nay

*deliberates censorship*

[yabbaguy]

Rhinox (Made you look ;P), I like the concept of NB

$$$

center around the game. However, I liked Nomic I better for its simplicity... even if that was TOO simple. Maybe a real-life RPG?

What's failing is that this game was supposed to be centered around commodities. However, commodities are self-centered propositions, as we're basically voting in monopolies into the game, which is awful. Plus, everyone's been distorting the sense of a NB

$$$

. C'mon, we can't have 10

$$$

paydays, that's pointless!

I'm up for starting over... but centering the game around a NB

$$$

system. Sorry Moratorium, who obviously can't follow his own dumb rules, but you kinda misstepped when you came in with the whole business idea. In life, business is not always democratic, and we're learning this the hard way.

[yabbaguy]

mis-quoting malarkey is occurring again, in the meantime.

[yabbaguy]

Hypothetical propose it, ani, Moratorium's boss, and who just carelessly lost another 500

$$$

.

Bet 100 $$$ on 1:3 horse

. I will not lose my stash this time.

[yabbaguy]

Reset: Yea

[yabbaguy]

ani, Moratorium's boss quit. He therefore has no say in the vote.

[yabbaguy]

...not that it matters. He'd say yea anyway.

[yabbaguy]

It's Nomic. If you for whatever reason hate this volatility, you deserve to stay out.

[yabbaguy]

Kinda building off what you had to say. It wasn't exactly directed at you.

[yabbaguy]

Of course, Lowell, The Majestic One.

I'm chilled with keeping it to a Grade 1 offense... and explicitly making quoting a non-necessity for titles.

The thing is, the commodity system is broken. We're not going to hand someone a monopoly on anything, which is the current rule. Therefore, no way.

[yabbaguy]

How to tell the system is broken: Drench, CEO is leading. Where the hell has he been?

[yabbaguy]

Bump of the Century.

Requesting modkill if inactives don't show within some timeframe.

[yabbaguy]

There's a rule preventing that.

[yabbaguy]

*drums fingers*

*waits*

Oh...

bet 100 $$$ on 1:2 horse

*drums fingers again*

[yabbaguy]

Rhinox (Made you look ;P) called it correctly. Damn.

[yabbaguy]

I totally could've sworn I had voted

P82: Yea

! How did that happen???

Oh well, count it.

[yabbaguy]

Submitted proposals (to the right account this time. ). Sorry for that..

My idea is to basically turn this into a gambling game parlor. I proposed to put NomicBucks back, set a goal, and set a provision for us to basically wager on parlor games for us to play with each other.

The only thing I regret is one of my rules basically requires you guys to post rules for EVERY game you decide to put in, even if it's Rock-Paper-Scissors, but that shouldn't be a problem. Just stick a link in and we're all set.

You'll see what I mean in a moment.

[yabbaguy]

Wanna try proposing that, Lowell, CEO?

(Sorry, force of habit.)

[yabbaguy]

94-96: Nay

. This is counterintuitive to Aussie Politics, as the first incarnation was called.

97-98: Yea

99: Nay

. I'll change to Yea if my general "Game" framework gets thrown out.

100+101: Yea

, but where are you going with this? The last grid didn't do shit, to be frank.

102: Nay

. A player will never go bankrupt in that case.

[yabbaguy]

EBWOP- strike that uselessness comment then.

[yabbaguy]

P92, ani. Wagers.

I think I screwed up P87... not sure I wanna Naysay though. Perhaps weekly we all get a payday? Not friggin' 10 $$$, but y'know, something significant? And not necessarily corporate-related? That'll throw $$$ into the game.

[yabbaguy]

P100+P101: Unvote

, as I also am curious. Let's see what the follow-up proposal is.

[yabbaguy]

Mod: I believe Skitzer voted Yea on P89

[yabbaguy]

Yay!

Submitted R.P.S. and another quickie, Odd & Even for your Game voting consideration.

[yabbaguy]

P103: Yea
P104-110: Nay.

I don't want to play Government Game {again}

Notice how robotic my rules are "If one wins, the other loses"

Moratorium, wagers suffice. Fail P102, and we won't have this problem.

[yabbaguy]

Agreed on the point of needing more money. Disagree on the point of barring luck games, this is just a start. I'm hoping to involve many other games as we go on.

[yabbaguy]

P113: Yea

. I did put in a provision for Juls to have to accept the Game command (so that someone doesn't put in 500 $$$ into the vault when they don't have such.)

P114 seems vague, gimme a sec to think about that.

Mod: Drench quit.

(Post 504)

[yabbaguy]

I have a gripe.

I want to propose a silver rule change that allows for pluralities to win out, even if a majority isn't present, but this would contradict P85 if it were to become a rule, as rules now don't "expire".

Any way to get around that, guys? Perhaps a new "P85" is in order by reproposing it?

[yabbaguy]

Abstaining is always a third option. And in that case, pluralities would exist, because

P100, 101, 113, 114: Nay

a) where's the proposition saying that players get paid back once the grid is full?
b) isn't this easy for the leader to say buy all and just keep racking up cash?
c) I hate first-to-post stuff.
and also
d) WHERE'S THE $$$? WE NEED $$$!!!

[yabbaguy]

EBWOP:

115-117: Nay

[yabbaguy]

P118: Nay, P119: Yea

Welcome, rek!

EBWOP 532: Pluralities would exist because there is that third option, and therefore we can contrive a consensus based on all those who actually did bother to vote, instead of inactives dragging us down.

[yabbaguy]

Yea 20-22, Nay 23

In the midst of proposing a V/LA safety, in case someone should do such. It would be unjust to apply any inactive rule to them.

Did I really say nay to 113? Whoops.

113: Yea

[yabbaguy]

Scratch, see Moratorium did that. Ignore me.

[yabbaguy]

124: Nay

There is a blatant flaw in this.

125: Nay

No penalty stated. Flawed.

126: Nay

I'm not here to play soft.

127: Yea

128: Yea

[yabbaguy]

p129: Yea

Money condition expired but didn't fail, I'll wait until some of the flaking players deactivate (themselves or by the new rule), then try again.

[yabbaguy]

or by the proposition I hope becomes a rule, rather.

[yabbaguy]

Juls

, you missed a couple of votes.

124: Nay

There is a blatant flaw in this.

125: Nay

No penalty stated. Flawed.

126: Nay

I'm not here to play soft.

127: Yea

128: Yea

130: Nay

131: Nay

Playerlist? Hiatus List?

132: Nay

Recursive loop, bankrupt and bankrupt again.

133: Yea

134: Yea

[yabbaguy]

I can still /in, right? O_o

I dunno. Now that apparently you are a player, the latter Golden Rule allows you to officially protest that decision that you were even playing in the first place.

[yabbaguy]

Nay 135

. Pops, this is not the time for selfish rules.

Yea 136

. I go to summer camp shortly after, so this is extremely convenient for me.

I'm willing to repropose the games (RPS, O/E), but I'm waiting for more people to turn up Hiatus.

[yabbaguy]

Juls

, I don't think that's possible. "New" players who join the game will get 1000 $$$. Blackberry is no longer considered a "new" player to Nomic II, IMO.

[yabbaguy]

Uh oh... I didn't want Hiatus people punished *sends correctional Proposal*

137: Yea

[yabbaguy]

P139: Yea

[yabbaguy]

Just proposed a rule that offers positive reinforcement for voting for the majority, giving everyone 100

$$$

if they do it.

We'll get a lot more hammered propositions instead of expired ones if you all vote Yea for it.

[yabbaguy]

Shoot, LT, you didn't include a penalty nor a deadline for the money divisions. Three days is merely the frequency the 100 $$$ is given from the mod, but I see nothing saying it has to be done in that window of time, just the word "must do" thrown in there.

How about the 100 $$$ burns the player (ie: MTG's "mana burn") if they don't get it in time?

P140: Yea

, I really like this, but I'd reshuffle the roles every now and then somehow.

P141: Nay

, did we even specify that robbers were going to be secret in 140?

P142: Nay

, too powerful.

Too many inactives... this is driving me nuts. I wish it was shorter than 2 weeks...

Will someone kindly vote yea on 136? Quickly, please?

[yabbaguy]

So the mod, for all practical purposes is partially /in.

P144 Queries: Do these items have names or are they just called "Kill Item"?

Does this "list of 5" imply that this player can only use those items to kill/save?

[yabbaguy]

Dizardin, I'll swap $$$ with you.

144: yea

(not "yay", people)

[yabbaguy]

informal Nay to Lowell's reset button proposal. We still need a mechanism to make money.

[yabbaguy]

P145: Nay

. How to tell a player is truly inactive... they didn't read the rule that allows them to stop being inactive! >_>

Sell Grass Cloth for 812$$$

Buy All 5 Nuts + Bolts (14 x 5 = 70$$$), All 5 Pens (44 x 5 = 220$$$), and all 5 rubies (147 x 5 = 735$$$)

Sale 812$$$
Purchases (1025$$$)
_______
(213$$$) for the entire transaction.

I have a wire and a fan.

[yabbaguy]

146: Nay
147: Yea

(If you're voting the same on 146 + 147... pay attention!)

148: Yea

149: Nay

. Die, grid!

[yabbaguy]

EBWOP: If you're voting "yea" to both 146 + 147... right, right, I got it, of course, duh, yea..... okay.............. okay.

*everyone shoots me a look*

[yabbaguy]

150 + 151: Nay

.

I'm gonna throw some of my own propositions in soon...

[yabbaguy]

Buy: 2 Tumeric, 2 Debit Card

[yabbaguy]

158: Yea

[yabbaguy]

Oh shoot!

152: Nay

... please all do the same.

Otherwise, the auto-yea vote that comes out of it will defeat the purpose. Re-proposing...

[yabbaguy]

EBWOP:

...this might have to go through SR1 if I delete the auto-yea vote. Damn.

[yabbaguy]

Your PM gave you a list of Save items. These items, used uniquely, will increase your chances of saving yourself, the more used, the higher the chance. However, like a kill, it's not a guarantee.

If your save is successful, then the attack is defused on the spot, and you live.
If your save fails, but the attack fails as well, you also live.
If your save fails and the attack goes through, you die.

In my case, I'm not gonna save myself because I'm not scared of that 20% hit. C'mon, you ain't gonna kill me with a piece of paper!

Dear everyone: My P152 is flawed for reasons stated above. Vote Nay.

Also, I'm ticked that 155 is getting a lot of Nays, I'm just trying to find a cool real-life way to instill more cash in the game. Can the naysayers please explain themselves?

[yabbaguy]

Dice are cliche.

[yabbaguy]

And I'm next. Yay.

[yabbaguy]

161: Nay

Pops... this is useless. This is honest, I believe you're allowed to out and rejoin. I'm trying to stop that, but as long as I haven't, just do that. ^_^

Sometimes I wonder if you should even be in this game... you clearly haven't been involved.

[yabbaguy]

P162: Nay
P163 + 164: Yea

@Drench770: ???

[yabbaguy]

Good call chenhsi!

165: Yea

Also...

162: Yea (Flip)

[yabbaguy]

!!!

I didn't realize the market updated two days ago!

Sell 3 Rubies

. (3552$$$)

Buy 2 Cell Phone and 2 Jars (?) of Tumeric

(956$$$ + 820$$$ = 1776$$$)

3552 -

1776

=

1776

. What a fluke!

[yabbaguy]

Hence the difference between expiring and failing, so yes, Nay votes are actively doing something instead of a passive... blech, I don't know how to phrase it.

Nay 166

[yabbaguy]

P167: Yea

P168: Nay

P169: Nay

. I don't see where this is going.

P170: Nay and

Protest to Panel

. Nomic III will be a completely separate game, and I don't think it is in the bounds of possibility to have a rule carry over remotely from another version of the game.
If the rule fails, I'll retract the protest.

P171: Nay

. I like productivity enhancing proposals, but this is loaded. We'll start rejecting proposals just 'cause it's a guy we hate. That ain't democracy!

P172: Nay

P173: Nay

P174: Yea

P175: Yea

P176: Nay

P177-178: Yea

P179: Nay

. I can be swayed on that, but I don't like a goal centered around one thing. I like Game Tokens just as a freebie item instead of a game-winning item.

[yabbaguy]

Unverifiable. Unless Juls comes over to my house and everywhere else I go personally and makes sure that I'm wearing that necklace the whole time, even photo proof won't do anything. Let me know if she's okay with that, though.

I disagree with the moderator decision that the rule should be considered. That legally invokes GR11.

My argument is basically that all these rules pertain to Nomic II. Once Nomic III starts, I don't think you can really "bridge" rules from one edition to another, as the entire ruleset aside from default GRs and SRs will completely wipe out. Somehow I think the panel is going to invoke spirit of the game and shoot me down, but I tend to be of the sort to take rules literally. I'm like that, y'know?

[yabbaguy]

As tempting as this public debate is, seeing as GR11 allows me one post to protest, and I've made two, I'll PM you shortly.

[yabbaguy]

As you wish.

To me, "No Bridging" isn't even a rule, it's a simple fact and fate. Nomic III is not the same game as Nomic II, and there's really no verifiable way to make sure that the mod does this, seeing as the would-be rule for this will be deleted upon the startup of Nomic III.

"I don't think" is basically my personal interpretation, not necessarily my speculative opinion

I'm protesting in the proposal phase because what fault is it of the mod's if it becomes rule? That I disagree that it got voted in? I think I'd be called outright too late on that one.

I'm also gonna claim that fixing it so I can't protest proposals or rules violates GR11, as it currently says that ANYTHING can be protested, and that takes priority over anything else. Currently, it can't be messed with, and only the mod holds the power to make it mutable again. Saying however, that I'm abusing a rule, is anti-Nomicy, if such a term exists. There is currently a system in place for the mod to be contested by any player at any time, albeit needing a technical reason.

Then again, yea, it needs a real reason. It's not like someone can say "It's not fair" to everything that's going on.

[yabbaguy]

That... contradicts a golden rule, doesn't it?

[yabbaguy]

I took that into account. The inhibition remains that proposals will get shot down merely on the grounds that someone will be scared of the anonymous proposer being the guy who needed that last one. I dunno... it seems like a loaded incentive.

[yabbaguy]

Mod: can you send us kill and save lists now and in future inventory updates?

Sell 5 Nut/Bolt (516 * 5), Buy Negotiator Ability (-2500), Sell 5 Pen ((523 + 52)*5), Sell 1 Fan (459 + 46)

2580-2500+2875+505=3460$$$

Buy two hammers (717 * 2), 1 debit card (1264), and 3 jellyfish (146 * 3)

1434+1264+438=3136$$$

3460-3136=324$$$

Not bad!

[yabbaguy]

Buy two snails, also, while I'm at it.

[yabbaguy]

Indifferent to the issue.

180: Yea

181: Yea

182-188: Nay

[yabbaguy]

Yea 189

. Weird wording, but with LT at 10K $$$...

[yabbaguy]

*raises hand*

[yabbaguy]

190 + 191: Nay

[yabbaguy]

192: Yea

. This could make for interesting politics later.

193: Yea

194: Nay

. The rule is faulty, as the 6-hour increments could be at bastard times for RL.

11 PM-5 AM anyone? I'll pass.

[yabbaguy]

A misdirect?

[yabbaguy]

Chenhsi, you seem to be dodgy to me. As far as we know, you're trying to kill everyone.

Mod

, were two items used against LT? Just checking...

[yabbaguy]

196: Yea

197 + 198: Nay

. 198 was easily proposed by a rich guy and he's going to rack up and smother all of us. Do not do it.

[yabbaguy]

Nay 199

. You deserve your sleep Moratorium.

[yabbaguy]

It destroys the viability of the game. We have a rule in place to allow people to put forth kill attempts anonymously, and to be able to do this proposal each time is ridiculous. There's an ability for that, too!

[yabbaguy]

Wait a sec... the attempts are anonymous, and upon passage of this proposal, a HIGHER numbered rule comes into play, but a LOWER numbered rule says that the attempts will remain anonymous.

I think this rule will be immediately swallowed up by the Silver Rule, and be contradicted. It'll pass, but just be contradicted.

[yabbaguy]

Buy 3 Credit Cards

[yabbaguy]

Sorry about that. I realized it was gonna put me in the red... but that was stupid of me to panic. ^_^

[yabbaguy]

EBWOP:

When you pass a car out-of-bounds in the Nascar 500, what do you do? Give the place back to the car you passed illegally. May not stop the black flag, but it does justice.

In other words:

Buy 15 paper clips, sell 15 paper clips

, not to stop the warning , but out of fairness.

[yabbaguy]

Oh yea...

Rule 27 should've self-repealed itself

.

[yabbaguy]

Nay 200

... for now.

[yabbaguy]

I was part of the kill attempt squad.

Yea, I stopped giving cash to dizardin partially out of laziness. It was a loophole.

Juls, you cited a program you used. What application did you run it on? (or was it like a BASIC programming software?)