Nomic II - Moratorium Wins!!!
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Personally, I'm hoping this game can become something a little more original and complex than "whoever can maintain a 48 hour posting rate wins" or "whoever can sandwich posts the most wins". Nomic gets fun when the best or most original rules manipulator is the one that gets rewarded. Winning because you voted yes on enough "Let's vote Lowell out of the game" proposals is... meh.Lowell wrote: Man I'm going to posit soooo many mandatory lurking rules...Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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I've put forth a series of proposals to try and define a framework that allows play without the "let's vote out so and so" issues from Nomic I. I've purposefully made it very open-ended, allowing for ease of additions and modifications. I'll let you all read it for yourself before making any additional comments.
I hope everyone will find my overall idea interesting, and would be very much willing to discuss any issues or revisions that anyone thinks to bring up.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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No to P16 and P19, I don't believe imposing proposal restrictions will help anyone in the future. I do apologize if you feel that I introduced too many rules at one time, and assure everyone that it was a one time event just to establish some sort of initial ruleset.
Yes to P18, Private communications would make this game fun (Imagine Corporate alliances, mergers, takeovers, who knows).
I need some clarification on this proposal before voting.P17 wrote: Game of Corporations -> Chief Financial Officer: The Chief Financial Officer (CFO) shall be responsible for maintaining all details related to the Game of Corporations as proposed by CEO Moratorium. This shall include, but not be limited to, currency ($$$), corporation name, chief officer's title, commodities, and such. This data shall be kept up-to-date as much as possible, with no less than one update per 3 calendar days. In recognition for this service, the CFO shall receive a wage of 10 $$$ every three calendar days. If a post is not made within the 3 calendar day limit, the corporation of the CFO is subject to a Grade 2 Offense. The first CFO shall be CEO Moratorium. A new CFO can be elected by a 50%+1 vote.
Is this a proposal to grant one of the 18 proposed CEO's a new responsibility? Or all of them?
Are you thinking that I'm proposing there only be 1 corporation? I'm not, I'm saying that each player gets to incorporate seperately. One of the main reasons I came up with this was to have an excuse to prevent rules that eliminate players, and the first thing I thought about was the immunity that incorporation offers to private individuals.
That's doesn't prevent the development of multi-player corporations later, but I'm just saying that's not what I'm proposing right now.
Anyways, I'm obviously confused, please help me.Last edited by Moratorium on Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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I debated between proposing a date-in-time victory vs. a dollar-amount victory, and couldn't really figure out an appropriate dollar amount without knowing beforehand how players made money and how quickly.
Hence the date-in-time version.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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I like the tasks idea, and will probably vote yes for it.
My money-making idea is P11, where corporations basically becomes stores for players to buy commodities to use on each other or on themselves or whatever. I purposefully didn't propose any commodities myself.
These were the notes I jotted down for commodities:
- Establish stores that sell goods that grant in-game abilities
- Vehicles
- First Aid
- Weapons
- Cellphones?
- Superhero abilities store?
- Religious artifacts?
Consider that brainstorming.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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I'll refrain from voting on P20 and P21 until I see how the wind blows with everyone else.
Yes to P22Takes Juls long enough to do votecount updates already
For P23, the Task object, I notice that it specifies that Commodities can be a reward, but it doesn't specify what commodity, or where that commodity comes from. Are these commodities from the player who proposes the task? Or do they appear out of the void? Can someone propose a task and reward with a commodity that someone else sells?
No to P24This should be in a proposal that fully explains the win condition, i.e. How does one become the King of Nomic.
For P25, Third arm, what happens if someone fails to describe what they are doing with their third arm? As proposed, the answer would be "nothing".
P26, It's Kinda Common, again what happens if someone breaks the rule? It's not specified as proposed.
No to P27As proposed, "all nays" means every nay in the game, by every player. I'd say yes to this rule if it was changed to say "all nays by the dying player" etc...Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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You probably wouldn't like Agora Nomic then.farside wrote: I swear if all that corp mumbo jumbo comes into effect I'm out of here. That is just plain confusing.
agoranomic.org wrote: Agora started on 30 June 1993, and celebrates its birthday on 30 June each year (rule 1727). Agora is the longest-running nomic known. Agora's 15-year history includes over 5800 legislative proposals (rule 106), the enactment (rule 105) of about a thousand rules (rule 2141), almost as many repeals, and over 2200 judicial cases (rule 991).Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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I see what you mean. I'd be willing to either leave it up to the mod as a judgment call, or clarify it. Either way. If it fails as a proposal, there's another proposal from Rhinox that interprets dissolution as player loss, so I'm waiting to see how the majority wants to play it.dizardin wrote: P7 has an interesting appendage at the end - you ought to define 'profit' in some sense, since I can think of a couple different possible interpretations. Specifically, are we talking profit as in making $$$, or are we talking receiving some benefit, tangible or otherwise? It makes a difference, and it maybe hard to determine at the time of an act.
I made the proposal so that fines are paid with liquid cash on hand, as in if I were an apple orchard farmer, I don't think my local government would be too happy with me paying my taxes in bushels of apples. If someone else wants to put a proposal together to allow commodities to be liquidated somehow, maybe at a discount, I'd probably vote yes on it.dizardin wrote: P8 is good, except it doesn't address any assets other than current balance (call it 'cash on hand'). If I've got a dozen widgets, and 200 $$$ in the Bank, they should count for something, right?
I was looking to create an "ultimate penalty" that was just shy of player death, in this case removal of all assets (cash/loans/commodities/whatever), to allow players to keep playing if they so desired, but at a significant penalty. In a game where a driving factor is player-run stores, a large base of customers is probably better for the game than a small one.dizardin wrote: P10 sets a time limit, which is generally good, but I'm curious about the dissolution clause - what was the purpose of that, if there's already a victory condition?
Well, I'm hoping that people are willing to accept several different mechanics with which to "advance" in the game. So player-run stores, Rhinox's "Tasks", little sub-games for prizes, theft, subterfuge, lotteries, auction houses, stock markets, scams, jobs with salaries, as far as I'm concerned whatever anyone can think of and propose as means to make money is fair game and just adds a new level of interesting.dizardin wrote: P11 has potential; I'm debating it with myself.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Yes: P45, P48, P52, P53, P56, P57, P58, P59
No: P43, P44, P46, P47, P49, P50, P51, P54, P55, P61
A few comments:
P55: There's no stipulation as to how many times this can be used (I hereby gavel 12 times on proposal 99 which states I automatically win, yay!).
P61: Anyone who isn't in the lead in money right now shouldn't be voting yes to give everyone money if they are truly playing to win.
Also, the commodities types that dizardin is proposing is exactly the kind of thing I had in mind, so if anyone was confused about commodities in general, see if you can come up with an interesting power or ability that you'd want to give to a commodity that you then can sell to other people.
And finally, we're getting close to the 25 maximum rules limit.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Uh, ok, how about prodding these four people?
Drench- P30, P31, P32, P35, P37, P38, P43, P44, P45, P48, P49, P50, P54, P55, P56, P57, P58, P59, P60, P61, P62, P63, P66, P67, P68, P70, P71, P72, P73, P74,
xelada- P30, P31, P32, P35, P37, P43, P44, P45, P48, P49, P50, P54, P55, P56, P57, P58, P59, P60, P61, P62, P63, P66, P67, P68, P70, P71, P72, P73, P74,
Perpetuum- P43, P44, P45, P48, P49, P50, P54, P55, P56, P57, P58, P59, P60, P61, P62, P63, P66, P67, P68, P70, P71, P72, P73, P74,
ortolan- P30, P31, P32, P35, P37, P38, P43, P44, P45, P48, P49, P50, P54, P55, P56, P57, P58, P59, P60, P61, P62, P63, P66, P67, P68, P70, P71, P72, P73, P74,Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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If you believe the penalty for not using someone's title is too harsh, vote Yes on P74, to change it to a simple Grade 1 offense.
And if someone wants to put a proposal in to override the current penalties preventing new proposals from certain people, I wouldn't complain to that either.
To be honest, the only reason I submitted that "you must use a person's title" rule was to show how the violations mechanic could be used. I really didn't think it would suddenly become the CENTRAL GAME CHANGING MECHANIC.
More proposals please.
We still need a win condition.
We still need to know what the grid is for.
We still need tasks.
We still need commodities to sell.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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I'm officially sponsoring Lunar_Tick.
Reasons for why you should allow Lunar_Tick to play:
- He smells good.
- Rearrange the letters in his name and you get "Can It Lurk". I'll bet the answer is no!
- There aren't any ticks on the moon! See, that's the kind of irreverent humor you can come to expect out of this guy! Hilarious!
- Lunar_Tick is an important part of this healthy breakfast.
So please. For the children. Vote yes.. I mean.. uh.. Yay... Yae? to this propos... wait, this isn't... Vote I agree to allow Lunar_Tick to possibly later agree to join in these.. um...
How does this sponsoring thing work anyway?Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Acting as Lunar_Tick's intermediary:
Lunar_Tick would like you to know, Cool. He also wishes for me to please state that if he is added to the game he will vote yay to repeal all previous rules. And then he thanken's me.
These people haven't yet voted for Proposal 82.
Drunch- P74, P81, P82,
popsofdallas- P82,
Swortolan- P74, P81, P82,
Mypetneedstuums- P74, P81, P82,
Unpronunceable Chinese Name- P82,
Flintstonesguy- P82,
(edited because I included names that shouldn't have been included.)Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Change your votes on P87 and P88 to Yes, then.Rhinox wrote: Also, all these games are nice, but everyone needs some $$$ before we can play. That means we should also settle on a win condition.
If you don't like those particular conditions, change them later. But at least then the game will have a win condition of some sort, and people will have an incentive to play. Make the challenge be changing the win condition, not the initial creation of one.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Lunar_Tick's rules are awesome. Curious as to what the purpose of the supreme ruler and minsters will be. Maybe I should propose a role for one of them.
yes to 103 through 110
I also like the yabbaguy games proposals. I'll say yes to them, (yes to 111 and 112) although I'll point out that there doesn't seem to be any limitations on how often players can play a game, so if you are giving the winner and loser both money, and we have a set money win condition, all two players have to do is play each other a thousand times or whatever and eventually someone will breach the win condition.
We might want to have a rule that prevents a player from playing a particular game more than X times per Y time period.
Also changing vote on the other version of RPS:
No to 99Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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Do we want to instigate a proposal that gets rid of inactive players?
Nomic I had something where if you didn't post every 72 hours you were kicked out, I'm thinking more along the lines of 2 weeks just to get rid of people who have obviously quit playing.Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.-
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