California Trilogy - Going to San Francisco (Game Over!)

[curiouskarmadog]

forgot I even singed up for this game....confirmo

[curiouskarmadog]

yeah, OMGL and I lynched him.

he started off the day saying that he knew that both pairs of "missing" groups had one scum in them. Then he voted OMGL (all in his first couple posts)..when I didnt hammer OMGL, he voted me...when OMGL didnt hammer, he unvoted. Not liking his play and his perceived knowledge that each group has scum and were not random, I voted him. Of course he then voted me and then claimed RB, and OMGL hammered, several days later.

Gorrad played super scummy and I thought that fake claim was a lie. It was...but he just happen to be town.

I assume that since the other three are still missing (attic?) they wont be able to get out until they lynch one of their number.

going to read here again...

[curiouskarmadog]

how do you figure?

[curiouskarmadog]

he said it was mostly a guess, but he also said he was the RB, selective reading?

[curiouskarmadog]

He also said he was the RB...(selective reading)

well, he started off implying that each group must have one scum in it...when I pressed him about it, he said it was bascially a guess, but that it made the most since...the point is, he acted like he had prior knowledge, that is why I thought he was scum...that and the RB claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

PMing the Mod, to see if "role" information is provided upon death.

that was a lie to I am thinking.

[curiouskarmadog]

No, the game said we could see you but that you couldnt see us...the thread is no longer there (checked this morning to see if I could bring quotes over, cant)

[curiouskarmadog]

also note to the other "missing" group (I assume like us you can read the main thread)

make good notes of what occurs and what order. I thought that the thread might be around when we merged with the main group but it didnt.

I thought the role would be disclosed at death (still waiting for the mod to clarify). At the time of Gorrad's claim, it came in such a manner that it didnt seem believeable...

I agree with OGML's FoS of Xtoxm.

[curiouskarmadog]

please dont put words or implications into my mouth....it rules never said we had to lynch. I assume that because we are out and the other missing group isnt, that you have to lynch to get out...when I was "in" I didnt know that.

[curiouskarmadog]

edit; "it rules never..." = "the rules never.."

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok. That has no bearing on the possibility either way. We should wait and see if the other group get out.

I dont think it will be today...and who are you telling to wait, the only person who is pushing that the groups have scum in them is you...

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod Pmed me back, apparently he provides Rolename and Alignment. To me that means Name of Role and alignment. However, it clearly means your "name", but not your role. So, I guess Gorrad could be the RB, which sucks.

however, that must mean that "SCAPE" is an alignment and not a role, also I assume it means it is a different alignment from innocent.

going to reread now, since I really havent had the chance.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, flavor wise, I think we are Mr. Grey's amusement.

Nab, we talked about who he thought was scummy (up here) after the Gorrad lynch, but conversation died off

I dont remember exactly (time frame), thus my note to the other "missing group". I think he had a day or two and gave Gorrad plenty of warning. If I recall correctly (and OGML can verfiy) I think Gorrad claimed after I voted him, but before OGML said anything about possibly hammering him (although OGML did say if he was going to vote anyone it was Gorrad, but this was before my vote on Gorrad).

I think Gorrad claimed soon after my vote on him...

[curiouskarmadog]

I need to reread a bit..but I can tell you that reading from the basement, I was getting a strange vibes from volkan. I think this is significant, because I usually get strong town vibes from him, even when he is scum...dont know what in particular sparked it, though....going to reread.

[curiouskarmadog]

Nab, we talked about who he thought was scummy (up here) after the Gorrad lynch, but conversation died off

Yeah... but who and why?

Treat this like you're a replacement.

please see other post.

I am not sure why vollkan is pinging a Dar(scum?)..his play is different.

I will comment on the thread when I get a chance.

Xtoxm, how many games have you played with vollkan?

[curiouskarmadog]

vollkan, between claim and hammer, I really dont recall...if I recall correctly, OGML did wait for sometime (days?) before he hammer. In reference to my vibe (hunch)...not yet, had to post a lengthy case in another thread and need to reread here...this thread is up next and hopefully will get to it soon.

it is more your playstyle is different than I am used to with you. That doesnt mean much, because you have fooled me before as scum (with the same style as town)...but something is different...at any rate, I need to read.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, why didn't you figure out yesterday during your conversation with OGML that only role name and alignement are reveiled on death?

Because only a name and alignment was listed…”innocent” could have easily been a role like “townie”. How did you automatically know that “innocent” was an alignment and not a role? Also, what is your point of asking that question?

BBMars is feeling terribly scummy right now......

....I believe they're trying to stay out of the picture on purpose, actively lurking in other words.


....I don't understand where the Thesp bandwagon is coming from, even though I don't consider him to be shiningly pro-town.

noting both points on these players...

also, on your list, why am I higher up on the vote than OGML?

I'd like to see how they react to a wagon

Vote: BBMars

curious about this too, also curious how you react to their reaction to the wagon.


Keeping up with the game, but still need to reread some more, and read vollkan in a vacuum..don’t have the time to do either right now.

[curiouskarmadog]

point?

[curiouskarmadog]

there is not any confusion NOW..

but I was confused about it before.

so I was confused, is there a point?

[curiouskarmadog]

so I was confused, is there a point?

"Innocent" is alignment, not role. The fact that you thought "Innocent" was a role indicates you were not aware of the fact that "Innocent" is an alignment, not a role. That, in turn, raises a reasonable question as to whether, if you are indeed "Innocent", you would neglect to realise that "Innocent" is simply an alignment,

of come on...."Innocent" is also in the role name. I didnt read the other game so I was not familiar with how the roles/alignments are provided at death. I have never been in a game (that I can recall) that did not list the town role as well. I assumed that the town role would be provided too. Usually someone is listed as a "townie", I thought that "innocent" is another way to say "townie"... Please see game that I am Modding where I do this.

the fact is, i didnt really know until I asked the Mod. Now how far and long are you really willingly to keep pushing that vollkan? Isnt it true that in most games town and role are provided?

[curiouskarmadog]

If you had discussed Gorrad's behaviour with OGML after Gorrad was lynched yesterday, IMO you would have figured out that it was alignement, not role. What I don't understand is why you immediately assumed a pro-town player was lying about his role, but did not discuss what his motivations for that could be. There's something very strange there.

as I said, and OGML can verify, Gorrad was not acting very pro-twon. He came in voting for OGML and wanted me to hammer. When he claimed, he said his name that he was the Role Blocker.

when he died and all i also was his name and "innocent", nothing about Role blocker...I thought he lied..simple as that..I didnt know that the role wasnt provided until the mod sent me the PM.

I thought Gorrad lied just to save his ass. Why does anyone do whatever they do? I thought he was lying at the time, because I thought he was scum. When he died, I mentioned I thought he was lying and wondered why and then went on to post something like "gorrad, if you are still reading this, that really was a bad play"...

of come on...."Innocent" is also in the role name.

actually I just reread my PM again, the word "innocent" is not listed in my role name...Just my name. "innocent" is provided as an alignment. take from that what you will.

[curiouskarmadog]

Now how far and long are you really willingly to keep pushing that vollkan?

Did I say it was a good argument? Did I escalate your number ranking? Did I FoS you? My exact words: "raises a reasonable question". My express use of those words impliedly excludes that I think it a compelling argument.

I agree entirely that your alleged mistake is perfectly reasonable, but it is also a reasonably possible scum error and, as such, inquiring about it is not unreasonable.

fair enough

[curiouskarmadog]

getting to a reread today or tomorrow..then will post thoughts...and questions.

[curiouskarmadog]

Finally getting around to doing a reread…here are some thoughts on the game (while I was in the basement) also keeping an eye of FL, who we now think is scum...also note, these points were posted as I was rereading.

I found vollkan post (49) quite odd. Maybe he did have an experience that made him make a preemptive statement, but it was still strange. I think it is a null tell, but it isn’t like the vollkan I am used to seeing.

That being said, I don’t really Gaspar’s quick (“joke”) votes (54,55) either. However, I assume at this point we are still in the random vote stage. Thesp’s “random” vote (57) on me and Michel’s “testing” vote (59), when we weren’t even here is interesting too. MM (60), joins with a vote on me as well. Not sure why it is a good idea to test to see if you can vote for missing players, but this is moot because he came up town later.

Noting Fl’s post to vollkan.

On general. I don't like the fact that you destroyed the random voting stage and are already trying to lead the town into following your reasoning, not their own.

(72, 73)Niv’s self vote, then immediate unvote and vote of FL, looks VERY strange…again this could be chalked up to random voting.

Next couple of pages Xtoxm takes some heat and earns some votes.

(165) list means nothing I guess, but it might be worth a note.

Xtoxm
SensFan
Niv
volkan
Rogueben
MrBuddyLee
Thesp
MichelSableheart
NabakovNabakov
BBMars
Gaspar
Machiavellian-Mafia
PookyTheMagicalBear
FaerieLord

FL claims she doesn’t want to put Xtoxm at –1 yet.

(188)

Good, X.

Now explain carefully, and in detail your thought processes behind every post you have made. I realise this might seem a big ask, but it is of paramount importance.

Oh come on really? That seems a little silly. The fact that X, does it is even sillier.

Speaking of bad posting, Niv’s 194…not liking his posts at all. Almost seems to be stretching (later in the post).

Now (207) FL votes Niv.

Unvote, Vote Niv

, Xtoxm, SensFan, {peeps here}, {peeps missing}, NoLynch, Me

no reason for the vote…at this point in the game voting X would not have put him at –1.

3 minutes later, FL posts again (208) explaining why she chose to vote Niv. Thing is, she wasn’t prodded by any other players to do so….

FL’s vote on Niv and refusal (at this point) to vote X, puts X high on my scum list.

I like Pooky’s follow up post (209) after.

Noting that has Xtoxm’s posts go down (gets strike in 254) as does the votes against him.

Something about these 2 votes (267 and 269) sticks out to me.

MM Lynch >>>>> Niv Lynch

Unvote
Vote: MM

, FaerieLord, Thesp, BBMars, Sens, {people}, Xtox, Niv, Michel, Pooky, Vollkan, No Lynch, Gaspar

Oh, and i'll:

unvote vote MM

Gaspar, what changed from (230)

Unvote
Vote: FaerieLord

, Thesp, Michel, {people}, Niv, Xtoxm, Vollkan, Pooky, No Lynch, Gaspar

Should be noted that he did change his vote back..to FL in (288) and makes a big push (295).

I believe Niv’s claim in (289)


OGML and I enter the main game on post (311).

After rereading I am not sure what stuck out about vollkan’s posts to me. He does seem different somehow, but that means little. I have seen vollkan play both scum and town and was fooled both times.

Not liking Thesp’s play yesterday, and something about Sensfan play bugged me….something about Michel play today also is nagging. Not sure where all of Xtoxm votes went today, especially reading how FL treated Xtoxm…I think they (votes) are again needed.

Vote: Xtoxm

, MichelSableheart, {Thesp, LoudMouthLee}, {MrBuddyLee, Rougeben}, vollkan, {everyone else}, OhMyGodLife, Niv

[curiouskarmadog]

I disagree with your conclusions on me, CKD.

unvote vote BBMars

that you are probably scum?

why the vote change from Thesp?

[curiouskarmadog]

has Thesp said something you agree with since he started posting?

[curiouskarmadog]

well shit, started looking at the other game "Dantes in Fresno"...wish I had given that game a little look over before making an ass of myself here..for one, no roles were provided upon death (that point would save me some crap earlier)

there was a role there called "BALCO"..he was neutral and had his own agenda sans town and mafia...

also, each of the mafia members had an ability, so Niv's claim doesnt really mean much to his alignment.

I also note, that Gaspar won that game too as mafia with "Count de Morcerf", which bothers me on different levels...

at any rate, I doubt a connection between FL and Xtoxm now. I dont think Niv is as innocent as I once thought. I totally need to look over my notes again, and rethink my voting structure.

completely UNVOTE everything.

it is not as black and white as I first thought...(Mr Grey, indeed)

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

well shit, started looking at the other game "Dantes in Fresno"...wish I had given that game a little look over before making an ass of myself here..for one, no roles were provided upon death (that point would save me some crap earlier)

there was a role there called "BALCO"..he was neutral and had his own agenda sans town and mafia...

also, each of the mafia members had an ability, so Niv's claim doesnt really mean much to his alignment.

I also note, that Gaspar won that game too as mafia with "Count de Morcerf", which bothers me on different levels...

at any rate, I doubt a connection between FL and Xtoxm now. I dont think Niv is as innocent as I once thought. I totally need to look over my notes again, and rethink my voting structure.

completely UNVOTE everything.

it is not as black and white as I first thought...(Mr Grey, indeed)

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

UNVOTE

[curiouskarmadog]

Been giving this game some thought. Even though, a connection between Xtoxm and FL doesn’t mean anything, I still feel like X’s comments and play seem scummy. And deserves to be under pressure.

Niv’s claim has me at a loss as to alignment. Reading the old game, an ability like that could be town or mafia….it is mostly confirmed that he used the ability, unless Rogueben is linked to Niv in some way.

Niv, why did you target Pooky..any thoughts why your investigation was redirected?

Pooky, any idea why Niv’s target would have been redirected? (if you have answered this question before please direct me to the post).

votes coming soon.

[curiouskarmadog]

I had a connection with FL? I don't think I spoke directly to him once...

How have I been scummy in this one?

did you read my outline about your connection to FL in a couple of my post back?...again, that connection is meaningless, though.

[curiouskarmadog]

i have already stated that even IF it was there, it doesnt mean anything, why are you still hitting it home?

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd, what is your opinion on OGML?

I am leaning town. LIke I said when i first came into the game today, he had plenty of time to hammer me with Gorrad and he did not take it...he could have easily hammered me with his first couple posts and fall back on (today) that Gorrad was being scummy because he felt Gorrad had inside information (at least one scum in each group)...hell, he could have hammered me and spun today that in retrospect, gorrad's push for my lynch was scummy. This would have given him another target today that he could have organized with his scum buddies last night. Now I think about it, he could have organized an attack on me today if he was scum pretty easily. Once he got into the thread today and saw there was no way he could reference or quote the basement, he could have lied about how events went down in the basement, or at least slanted the truth somewhat.

He also didnt immediately hammer Gorrad when he had the shot either, and gave him time to address my post.

I understand it could have been a ruse to earn some town creds, but the way that it went down yesterday makes me think otherwise.

[curiouskarmadog]

i have already stated that even IF it was there, it doesnt mean anything, why are you still hitting it home?

You keep bringing it up and saying i'm scummy.

when was the last post that I brought up that you were scummy BECAUSE of the connection between you and FL?

I believe I have said at least twice that my percieved connection between you and FL is doubtful upon reviewing the other game. Furthermore I have mentioned that I think you are scummy for other reasons.

[curiouskarmadog]

Reference to post 519…

Is this plausible, though? I mean, if OGML makes an outrageous lie about the basement, it means that the other remaining basementer will challenge him and one of you will be lynched, with the other sitting in the wings if that person is town.

Yes it is plausible. I don’t have a game with OGML that he was scum that I can meta….for the time being, I think he is more townish than several others in this game.

tl;dr: I think the scent of fake blood brought out some jackals. Keep an eye on Gaspar, OGML, vollkan and possibly Nabokov.

your thoughts on Gaspar, now he has taken up your cause?…Especially after your dumbass comment…

If I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow. And I'm not wrong.

Reference to post 529

Reading this, it almose makes me feel thay you are scum for some strange eason, bt i just cant put my finger on it. it may be nothing. but it does irk me a little bit the wrong way

How easy is it to say something feels scummy about a post without any reason why? What is wrong with the post? What does my post make you think that I am implying that could possibly be scummy?


Gaspar (or anyone that was in Dantes in Fresno)

From reading the other Dantes (I find the game really troubling for a reason I will explain at a later date), one of the game mechanics for the mafia was that they were “unable to kill Edmond Dantès unless his identity is revealed”. Now as far as I can see there wasn’t a character named “Edmond Dantes” I haven’t read the 85 page game thoroughly though…so I am confused…can anyone shed a light on that for me?

The reason I ask is because if the mafia had the same mechanic in play this game, the ability of finding role names (niv)would really favor mafia over the town..

Revote coming soon…interested in some answers.

[curiouskarmadog]

niv, no comment on my last post?

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote: Niv

, Xtoxm, Rogueben, Gaspar {MichelSableheart, Thesp, LoudMouthLee}, vollkan, MrBuddyLee{everyone else}, OhMyGodLife, CKD

[curiouskarmadog]

slight change

{Vote: Niv, Xtoxm, Rogueben, Gaspar, {MichelSableheart, Thesp, LoudMouthLee}, vollkan, {everyone else}, OhMyGodLife, CKD}

my current read of MBL, is that he is a townie, tunnel visioning on OGML...not seeing his attack as a scum move, currently

as I dont prefer is lynch over BBMars (which I dont have a read on at all), I cant see him being higher on the list over BBMars.

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

{

Vote: Niv

, Xtoxm, Rogueben, Gaspar, {MichelSableheart, Thesp, LoudMouthLee}, vollkan, {everyone else}, OhMyGodLife, CKD}

[curiouskarmadog]

getting beat down with end of the month work...hopefully will have time May 1 to post if needed...(sending this to all my games)

quick reply for this thread.

Rouge, part of the reason yes...why do you see OGML as scum?...if those points can not be counted for his "favor"..what are those against his "favor"?

Any other actions yesterday that could be taken against anyone else's favor? or are you just forgetting yesterday?

interesting how the wagon is coming together here at deadline even though BBmars was such a suspect.

[curiouskarmadog]

Niv who did you target last night, and lets get that confirmed.

This.Is.Really.Weird.

I was getting a strange vibes from volkan. I think this is significant, because I usually get strong town vibes from him, even when he is scum...dont know what in particular sparked it, though....going to reread.

I am not sure why vollkan is pinging a Dar(scum?)..his play is different.

vollkan, it is more your playstyle is different than I am used to with you. That doesnt mean much, because you have fooled me before as scum (with the same style as town)...but something is different...at any rate, I need to read.

Keeping up with the game, but still need to reread some more, and read vollkan in a vacuum..don’t have the time to do either right now.

I found vollkan post (49) quite odd. Maybe he did have an experience that made him make a preemptive statement, but it was still strange. I think it is a null tell, but it isn’t like the vollkan I am used to seeing.

After rereading I am not sure what stuck out about vollkan’s posts to me. He does seem different somehow, but that means little. I have seen vollkan play both scum and town and was fooled both times.

All that focus, and then you list him as 8th most suspicious. Hmmmmmmm.

So this came at the end of the day yesterday…What was your point? I said after I thoroughly read I really didn’t know why my vibe meter went off. He was still placed above “everyone else”..so what was your point? And why was it important to get that in yesterday? Would you have preferred I kept barking up his tree even though I felt there was nothing there? Your thoughts on volkan? Now that you know the alignments for Bbmars and OGML, where are you going to look now?

Niv

What changed from post 574

UnVote

,

Vote

BBMars,

Pooky

, Xtoxm, OMGL, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

to your very next post 579

When I pointed out how I thought he was lining his ducks up to shoot us down, one two, he told me it was an utter fabrication. Yet here he is, two pages later, laying the groundwork for a CKD lynch, which will look even more appealing to those of you who buy the "there must have been scum in the basement" theory after he gets me lynched today and it turns out I really am town.

CKD is town. I am town. At least two people (MBL, Xtoxm) have speculated that this can not be the case because they don't think the mod/some possible basement filling role would have put three townies down there. I can't say how many other people believe them, but buying that theory clearly leads down a road to a CKD lynch once I am lynched as town. Its bad enough to have myself getting mislynched. I don't want a second townie to go down simply due to a false pretense that if one of us isn't scum, the other has to be.

I can't find anything really right eith this post at all.

UnVote

,

Vote OMGL

, BBMars, Pooky, Xtoxm, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

like that bandwagon for no reason huh?

And here is another one. Post 559

Unvote

Vote:

BBMars, LoudmouthLee,

MrBuddyLee,

{people}, OhGodMyLife, curiouskarmadog, {missing people}, No Lynch, MichelSableheart

your very next post Post 585

So, with the previous singer without a connection to San Francisco revealing non-town, I'm happy with an

Unvote

Vote: OGML

Why did you want to attack MBL for his attack on OGML, then your very next post you vote the person MBL was attacking? What made you think that OGML were masons in any form? You want us to believe that you vote had to be changed because OGML didn’t claim mason?

For the same reason yesterday and that crap added at the end of the wagon..for now

Vote: Niv

[curiouskarmadog]

Niv who did you target last night, and lets get that confirmed.

I chose not to use my ability, beacuse i figured a role like mine, with only two uses, would be much more useful for catching a scum hiding their rolename later than using it now on just anyone.

Niv

What changed from post 574

UnVote

,

Vote

BBMars,

Pooky

, Xtoxm, OMGL, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

to your very next post 579

When I pointed out how I thought he was lining his ducks up to shoot us down, one two, he told me it was an utter fabrication. Yet here he is, two pages later, laying the groundwork for a CKD lynch, which will look even more appealing to those of you who buy the "there must have been scum in the basement" theory after he gets me lynched today and it turns out I really am town.

CKD is town. I am town. At least two people (MBL, Xtoxm) have speculated that this can not be the case because they don't think the mod/some possible basement filling role would have put three townies down there. I can't say how many other people believe them, but buying that theory clearly leads down a road to a CKD lynch once I am lynched as town. Its bad enough to have myself getting mislynched. I don't want a second townie to go down simply due to a false pretense that if one of us isn't scum, the other has to be.

I can't find anything really right eith this post at all.

UnVote

,

Vote OMGL

, BBMars, Pooky, Xtoxm, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

like that bandwagon for no reason huh?

For the same reason yesterday and that crap added at the end of the wagon..for now

Vote: Niv

My vote switch was beacuse of that post, he spewed out so much freeking wifom in that post IMO that there was nothing right with it. i could not let that post slide by.

the only reason for you not to use your power is because you were sending in the kill....I also dont believe your reasoning for your immediate vote change.

confirm vote Niv

I would like to hear people's comment on this...

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

I missed the fact that he claimed he could only use the ability twice...so if that is the case and we use his ability to verify someone's name, why on earth did he use it on pooky already? Niv?

I still dont buy the vote though...Gaspar, you comments on Niv's change of vote with little reasoning?

I agree with MBL's statement that MS's comments about masons was odd, I am just curious why MBL didnt bring that up yesterday?

[curiouskarmadog]

did I really stay out of the OGML va. MBL debate, or did I state my opinion on OGML yesterday numerous times...I didnt know his alignment, so I wasnt going to push anymore than that..I felt he was town, state so, but I am not going to forcefully stick my neck out for someone I am not certian of....are you?

seems to me that you are warping what really happened yesterday...why?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, do you have any idea of what you have said that made OGML feel you were definately pro-town? Or do you think it were just your actions in the basement?

For Christ sake I think I answered this question at least twice yesterday. And if I recall I didn’t say he was “definitely pro-town”, I think I said there was a possibility he could be scum when asked (vollkan?). But I had a feeling he was town. I felt like he was town yesterday because of his actions in the basement, yes.

Also, again gaspar..would like you answer to my question for 619

I still dont buy the vote though...Gaspar, you comments on Niv's change of vote with little reasoning?

[curiouskarmadog]

post coming today......

[curiouskarmadog]

crap, going to have to post (replies and questions) in the morning..

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD: What is there to say about it?

*shrug*

LIke to hear your general thoughts on Xtoxm, Niv, and NabNab

That's a pretty strong endorsement, and I would think that if this post is a true indicator, you would have at least acknowledged the firestorm coming down around OGML (or even the firestorm coming down around MBL's logic). OGML Vs. MBL was one of the biggest topics of yesterday, yet you have no significant comment on it or participation in it. Regardless of your history with OGML (which in this case happens to be significant), it is odd that it was something you weren't involved with on any level.

You know I back those I think need backing. Also, it seems a bit soon to jump to "warped" considering this was the first time quotes have entered into the discussion.

Well Nab, did I stay out of the fight and not give my opinion or did I put forth a strong endorsement? I didnt participate in it, are you reading the thread? I said my piece about OGML, I attacked others who I thought we scummy...I explained why I felt OGML was scummy, but I didnt know his alignment...I felt like I stuck my head out there enough for him...my "strong endorsement" was putting in my two cents into that arguement....please explain how is wasnt.

I am curious, you are obviously wanting to get somewhere with this bogus line of logic...where to? What are you trying to gather with my "lack of getting into the arguement". It is easy to say someone is scummy, but harder to say someone is town...

Niv & Pooky. Stop being ridiculous.

Pooky, it would be good if you actually answered some questions instead of dodging them. Niv, you're being a bit ridiculous in your narrow minded focus on Pooky.

I'm not being redculas, i am focusing on the peron i see as miost likey scum. if focusing on scum is wrong, i don't want to be right.

Has tunnel visioning worked out so far for you this game?

CKD, do you have any idea of what you have said that made OGML feel you were definately pro-town? Or do you think it were just your actions in the basement?

For Christ sake I think I answered this question at least twice yesterday. And if I recall I didn’t say he was “definitely pro-town”, I think I said there was a possibility he could be scum when asked (vollkan?). But I had a feeling he was town. I felt like he was town yesterday because of his actions in the basement, yes.

You are misunderstanding me. OGML said you were definately pro-town. I asked if you knew why

he

believed

you

were pro-town, not why you believed he was pro-town.

Ahh, I did misread that..sorry. Don’t know, I had 2-3 opportunities to hammer him while we were down there. Questioned Gorrad thoroughly…other than that, no. We had conversation who we thought was scum up here, but didn’t really have to time to go into whys. Maybe he felt I was town for the same reason I thought he was.

Doesn’t surprise me that Niv and RogueBen are joining yet another bandwagon...what does surprise me, is Xtoxm is not.

Also, I want more from MBL today…lurking because you lead the charge against a townie is scummy, why aren’t you trying to redeem yourself today?

Vote Niv

, {RogueBen, Xtoxm}, {NabNab, MichelSableheart}, MBL, Gaspar, {everyone else}, CKD

[curiouskarmadog]

It's interesting that your suspicions are almost exactly the opposite as mine, yet I feel a relative protown air coming from you as well, CKD.

Why?

Because calling MBL's case against OGML "very good and valid" seems like a stretch to me
If I reread the OGML bandwagon yesterday, I find it extremely worrying how many people follow MBL without any reasons of their own: Gaspar votes OGML without giving reasons, NN agrees with MBL about OGML's scumhunting and votes, Niv quotes a post with his vote, but never explains what he dislikes about it, Pooky mentions a blatant bandwagon jump as his reason, Rogueben is convinced by MBL's post #525 and Xtoxm votes "because BBMars' bandwagon is dead". Now MBL points out a single post from me, and RogueBen and Niv immediately vote on it. I seriously dislike how MBL is leading this town around.

Well that is great that you say that today, but where were comments like this yesterday as you were jumping on the bandwagon? This post is full of ugh.

That being said, I would like MBL to address the part about Niv and Rogue following his direction.

The point I'm trying to make here is that your endorsement of OGML was ineffective and never tried to be effective (at least in my perception), and I see that as a scumtell. However, going back over meta records, I see you were gone for the height of the controversy, so I'm willing to cut a break.

AGAIN, I said my peace about OGML. No need to cut me a break though. If I had been here, I cant say that I would have been "effective" at defending him because (and I feel like I am saying this over and over again) I wasnt 100% sure that OGML WAS town. It was just a vibe and my vote reflexed that.

Question though Nab, explain to me how one is “effective” in terms of endorsements. Also, explain to me why you deem it a scum tell when someone is not “effectively” endorsing someone that they are not 100% sure about. What would your opinion have been of me today if he would have flipped scum (excluding the fact that both of us were in the basement).

Has tunnel visioning worked out so far for you this game?

Yes, focusing on scum has helped me. how bout you?

LOL, that is why my vote is on you, Senior Slip up.….riddle me this, am I “focusing on scum” right now?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, how was that a "slip"?

he asked me how focusing on scum (this is in reference to a tunnel visioning comment) was working for me.

Gaspar, tell me, who am I currently focusing on?

ALso, you didnt answer my question.

[curiouskarmadog]

Nab, I was answering a question that was directed to me..."out on a limb "implies that I was not provoked to comment on him numerous times yesterday. Nab, you like to boast that you have a pretty good read (meta) on me even though you have only been in with or modded games that I was town. Have you ever seen me as town

" actively assert (someone's) innocence and combat the forces attempting to lynch them rather than passively stating (my) belief that they are town" for ANYONE that I had a vibe town from unless I was a cop backed by an investigation?

[curiouskarmadog]

what if I was being "defensive"? is that a scum tell too?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not convinced by this at all. Your argument against Pooky is repetitious. Have you actually read my
post 262. Have you considered the responses to his questions?

didnt say this.

[curiouskarmadog]

god I hate that both Xtoxm and Rogue are on this wagon.

[curiouskarmadog]

but Niv still looks the scummiest out of the three.

Vote

{

Niv

, RogueBen, Xtoxm}, NabNab, MichelSableheart, MBL, Gaspar, {everyone else}, CKD

[curiouskarmadog]

I don't like MBL's Gaspar vote at all.

everyone else's vot eyou are fine with?

[curiouskarmadog]

well, you have been pingging my scum dar all day...I am just trying to figure out why someone would post "I didnt like that vote" at this point in the game/day without explaining why...

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, your votes your comments...take your last comment for example...I say I find that last post (805) strange because you dont explain why, instead of explaining why you ask a question.

[curiouskarmadog]

so, would you rather him vote someone he doesnt think is scum? Also, what has gaspar done that is so protown?

[curiouskarmadog]

rereading now, thoughts as soon as that is done.

[curiouskarmadog]

(posting this in all threads)

I am currently battling the fucking flu that is going around and my main computer decided to crash..at any rate, my posts will be light. I have 2-3 games that needs reread and I will get to those as promised. Hoping to have time this weekend to get caught up.

also, I remember linking Xtoxm to FA yesterday but felt like SCAPE wasnt a group...I need to look back on that...also, Rogue confirming Niv's role interesting...both of these individauls at the top of my list today.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok so yesterday I thought that Xtoxm was linked to FL but dismissed it because I figured that SCAPE was an independent role and not part of a group. My post (23) explains why Xtoxm is linked to FL, but he jumped on the Niv wagon on a strange time..doesnt really stick out either way. Plus I cant seem to read the Xtoxm/Niv interaction. I cant really see this as a link. At this point in the game, Xtoxm voting Niv would have put him as the vote leader…I cant see scum doing that with one member down…so I guess Xtoxm is going down on my list.

I don’t like the fact that vollkan did not finish his list yesterday and didn’t vote…I love the way that vollkan plays and when he is town, he really is protown...this type of action does ping my dar for him. But I undersand being busy…so just noting it for now

I don’t know what I think about SCAPE. The fact that a SCAPE member was killed during the night when there was no other kills is interesting. I don’t think that SCAPE is a mason group because of Niv’s scummy play and is fake claim. So he either have a great vig and doctor, some other mechanic I don’t get, or we have two scum groups (size?)

Need to give some thought to the Niv’s Rogue/Pooky claim.

The “missing” group still missing is interesting, thoughts?

I disagree with Gaspar about Pooky..there at the end he had Niv pretty high on his town list and attacked those on his wagon. But maybe you have a better meta on him.

You brought up all the main points about Niv coming up scape.

There are 3 members of Dixie chicks. This would imply to me 2 scum groups of 3. Though kills seem out of place and missing.

Why am I so high up your list?

ugh, the minute I put you down on my list, you ping the dar again. Why must there be two groups of three?..why cant there be just a SK?

I agree with Thesp comment to vollkan in (834).

got more to say, but I got to go....post coming this weekend.

[curiouskarmadog]

One interesting post is that he asks Niv: "Why are you still trying to get me lynched?" when the post in question was a Condorcet list by Niv in a post attacking pooky where X was placed second.

what post number was this?

[curiouskarmadog]

View Xtoxm in isolation, oldest first, and it's post number 104.

why did you say this at this point (05/08)?

[curiouskarmadog]

.something about gaspar's relation to Niv in my mind is setting off alarms..also the fact that he avoided my question yesterday about Niv and answered it with a (shrug) is not sitting right with me...

also, getting vibes off others, so this will probably change.

Vote {Gaspar

, Nab}, {Rogue, vollkan, Xtoxm}, {MS, MBL}, {everyone else}, CKD

[curiouskarmadog]

View Xtoxm in isolation, oldest first, and it's post number 104.

why did you say this at this point (05/08)?

I don't understand the question.

This question was actually directed toward Xtoxm.. X, why did you say this on 05/08?

ugh, the minute I put you down on my list, you ping the dar again. Why must there be two groups of three?..why cant there be just a SK?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What the hell went to

this

assumption?

What assumption? X makes a huge ASSUMPTION that there must be two scum groups of 3. I was calling him out on HIS assumption. I was asking him why does there have to be two groups of three..couldnt there be a SK instead? Funny you don’t call out X for his assumption, but jump to the conclusion that I am assuming. Do you agree with X that there are two groups of three?

Why was the nibbler twins the SCAPE’s first kill?

[curiouskarmadog]

where did that (nibbler twins the SCAPE's first kill) first appear?

[curiouskarmadog]

post comng on friday

[curiouskarmadog]

posting to avoid a second strike...wont be able to post anything meaningful until tomorrow (I hope). I got my prod. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

[curiouskarmadog]

I was the one who first brought up the possibility of NibblerTwins being the first SCAPE kill. My reasoning is roughly as follows:
- SCAPE is probably a scum group. Usually, scum groups have kills.
- Night 1, FaerieLord was killed. It is extremely unlikely this kill was made by SCAPE, seeing that FaerieLord was one of them.
- Night 2, Flameaxe was killed. It is unlikely this kill was made by SCAPE, because Flameaxe (in the incarnation of BBMars) was under quite a bit of suspicion.
- Night 3, Pooky was killed. He could be a SCAPE kill, but his death seems to fit into the pattern of the earlier nightkills.
- At the beginning of day 4, NibblerTwins showed up death. It is unknown by whom or what he was killed.

So, we have a group of possible killers, but few to no deaths attributed to them, and we have a dead body without a killer. I consider the fact that the two are connected a serious possibility.

Your thoughts on the possibility we have two scum groups? Body was found could have been a lynch (though I doubt it). I find it strange that you quickly jump to “that must have been SCAPE’s first kill.” In the last game, where Gaspar was the remaining scum, a mafia kill was “murdered”. Gaspar was an assassin (could by pass doc’s), if he made the kill for the group, the death said something different (correct me if I am wrong gaspar). My point here si that there could be many possibilities to this kill....why you so quickly pushing that it was a SCAPE kill is bothersome.

On the other side of the coin, if the mafia group was inside the other room, they might be able to kill in that room.

Reading from page 20.

Niv’s claim has me at a loss as to alignment.

Reading the old game, an ability like that could be town or mafia

….it is mostly confirmed that he used the ability, unless Rogueben is linked to Niv in some way.

I never actually read the last game in detail, but I did read the role pms and can't remember seeing a pro-town role that resembled this. ckd, what made you think Niv's role could have been pro-town?

From reading the roles of the other game. Some of the town roles stated they could only use a power a certain amount of times. Surely you caught that while reading the roles.

The MBL/Gaspar argument is great and I disagree with Des that it is a distraction. There is a lot of information here. If you think it is a distraction, who is pushing the distraction and why? They both are bringing up some interesting points, but I do agree (with Des) that many others (who typically are more vocal) are being quieter than usual. Changing my list a bit.

Vote {Gaspar

, MS} {Nab, vollkan}, {Rogue, Xtoxm}, MBL, {everyone else}, CKD

[curiouskarmadog]

Don't like G wagon...

so?

[curiouskarmadog]

Your thoughts on the possibility we have two scum groups? Body was found could have been a lynch (though I doubt it). I find it strange that you quickly jump to “that must have been SCAPE’s first kill.” In the last game, where Gaspar was the remaining scum, a mafia kill was “murdered”. Gaspar was an assassin (could by pass doc’s), if he made the kill for the group, the death said something different (correct me if I am wrong gaspar). My point here si that there could be many possibilities to this kill....why you so quickly pushing that it was a SCAPE kill is bothersome.

Go read the post where I originally mentioned the possibility again. I never jumped to the conclusion "that must have been SCAPE's first kill". What I originally said was that, of all the deaths thus far, only the death of Nibbler Twins could be attributed to SCAPE IMO. (And I never suggested that was likely). I really would like to know where this misrepresentation comes from. FTR, here's the quote:

Scape indeed seems to be a scumgroup, but I don't think there are any kills that can be attributed to them yet. FaerieLord, Flameaxe and Pooky all got the same description (murdered), so are likely to be made by the same killer. It's possible that the dead of Nibbler Twins can be attributed to them, though.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time at the moment to make a more thorough post. I should be back into action tomorrow.

you did jump to that conclusion..Even the in quote you posted you said that you dont think that Flame, Pook, and FL were SCAPE kills, but you think Nib "can be attributed to them"....THUS, it was there first kill.

also there is

I admit that I don't have any evidence, but I do believe that SCAPE not having a kill or NibblerTwins being the first SCAPE kill are likely explanations for the deads we have seen thus far.

so please explain HOW this is a mischaracterization.

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

there is no reason for you to say that.

Vote {Xtoxm,

Gaspar, MS} {Nab, vollkan}, Rogue, MBL, {everyone else}, CKD

[curiouskarmadog]

because you know I am town?

[curiouskarmadog]

there is no reason for you to say that.

Vote {Xtoxm,

Gaspar, MS} {Nab, vollkan}, Rogue, MBL, {everyone else}, CKD

There was no reason to do that. Yes, Xtoxm is irrationally defending Gaspar, but the only way he would be scum because of that is if he was scum with Gaspar. Jumps from living players to their defenders based on the scumminess of the first player are scummy.

really?...X couldnt be scum if Gaspar flips town, trying to buy some creds? Why is that?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD's point about Xtoxm doesn't make sense to me. I don't like the Gaspar wagon either and don't plan on voting him unless I see more evidence against him.

what do you not understand? X is "irrationally" defending gaspar...He will be willing to lynch ANYONE else to avoid a Gaspar lynch. Now why would X be willing to lynch ANYONE else. He states he doesnt see a case against gaspar, but why would he be willing to lynch anyone else (without a case against that person)?...Doesnt that strike anyone else as odd?

Nab states that the only reason X would do that is if he was scum with Gaspar...I think that is a silly statement and dont understand why someone with Nab's experience would say that? Why couldnt X be scum trying to distance himself for a gaspartown lynch to buy himself some town cred if gaspartown was lynch and it was discovered the he was indeed town. I dont see X attacking any of the arguement against gaspar....no he would just rather say, I dont approve while not really not explaining why.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think I understand what MS is saying so I am dropping it for now.

Gaspar, I am not sure I understand WHY you are obviously protown..I am pretty sure I have seen you before state you were obviously protown and flip mafia Godfather (might be worth a check).

X, why is Gaspar so obviously protown IN this thread.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also Gaspar, are you saying that you think X is most likely town, because he is stating that you must be town, or is there another reason?..Also, if you are so obvious protown, why wouldnt it be in the mafia's favor to state that?

[curiouskarmadog]

*sigh*

Well, at least I know you're more likely "Incredibly Dense" as opposed to "Scum."

I already explained why Xtox is not SCAPE. And no, it had nothing to do with him calling me protown.

I've already explained how this makes him more likely to be (though not necessarily automatically) protown.

Simple observation has led me to believe that there is a 99.5% chance that he is protown.

well, thanks for the insult...feel better?...note your attempt to discredit.

just because you dont think that X is not scape does not mean that he is not scum..again why are you so sure X is not scum? why cant X be part of a different scum team?

Also I note that you didn’t address this statement at all….

Gaspar, I am not sure I understand WHY you are obviously protown..I am pretty sure I have seen you before state you were obviously protown and flip mafia Godfather (might be worth a check).

Any thoughts on this? Why are you obviously protown? Have you ever been scum and called yourself obviously protown or anything of the like?

@CKD: Yeah, that was an oversight on my part, but the same principle applies. Saying "This living player is this allignment because this living player might be this allignment" is going way out on a limb. Do you think Gaspar is scum? Do you think there's a legitimate threat of his being lynched? Shouldn't you know by now Xtoxm is irrational by habit?

What exactly was an oversight…your theory about X? and I am not saying anyone is (alignment) because someone else is (alignment)..I have a problem with X saying he doesn’t see a case against Gasper, and will vote anyone else to avoid that lynch….problem is, he doesn’t mention that that person must have a case against them. So he doesn’t want to vote Gaspar because there is no case, but has no problem lynching ANYONE (his words) else. Do I think Gaspar is scum? Maybe..but X’s statements are making me question it. Who being lynched? Gaspar?...I don’t think I would call it a “threat”…but it could be a possibility. I have no reason to think that X is irrational.

[curiouskarmadog]

I can fully understand Xtoxm's position on Gaspar. My read on him in this game is very protown. I see the MBL case as very weak and as I have said before based more out of a metaOMGUS than anything else.

CKD's continual push against Gaspar and Xtoxm worries me because they are the two people I think are most likely to be protown.

NN's attack against destructor seems opportunistic to me.

Vote: NabakovNabakov

, curiouskarmadog, MichelSableheart, MrBuddyLee, destructor, Vollkan, Thesp, Xtoxm, Gaspar, No Lynch, Rogueben

So my "attack" on Gaspar put me higher on your list than MBL who has spent the entire day arguing with Gaspar and pushing a case...I on the other hand have been asking gaspar questions..noted.

Also, what is your definition of opportunistic...is there a huge bandwagon on Des that I am not seeing?

also Rogue, when was the last time you actually did any scum hunting..can you provide a post number for me?

+++

Gaspar, So X is protown based on observation...and you think that X's stance to hang anyone else beside you today is protown, no matter who that person is?

and if you referred to yourself has obviously protown across the board..that means little here..unless you can explain to me WHY you are so obviously protown here...based on what actions you have posted here...because I see nothing.

Vote {Gaspar

, Xtoxm} {Nab, vollkan, Rogue}, MS, MBL, {everyone else}, CKD[/quote]

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote.

[curiouskarmadog]

same fucking reason I unvoted gaspar, I guess.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am not liking anything about this thread...

I dont like Des's comment about the votes on Nab while keeping his vote on Nab.

I dont like or am impressed with vollkan's and Nab's plays and comments in this game (especially Nab's recent comments).

I really dont like X and Gaspar, but dont want to push it further at this time in case I really am fucking barking up the wrong tree...

I dont like the uselessness of rogue..his post where he was "scum hunting" was not indeed scum hunting, but opinion and a vote..

I dont like or understand MS's or vollkan's vote of MBL..that being said,

I didnt like MBL attack of OMGL earlier in the thread, but his vote on Niv's I felt was decent...would like to hear MS and vollkan address that vote of Niv yesterday

however, all assumptions are thrown out the door if we are dealing with two separate scum groups (versus individuals).

so I got to vote...

Vote: {Nab, vollkan}, {Gaspar , Xtoxm}, {destructor, MS}, Rogue, MBL, Thesp, CKD

this might change before deadline.

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

dammit..

what is your point Gaspar? SO is the only correct choice for a vote is Nab? I am voting who I think is scummier of the two.

Vote:

{Nab,

vollkan

}, {Gaspar , Xtoxm}, {destructor, MS}, Rogue, MBL, Thesp, CKD

[curiouskarmadog]

Thesp, why does MBL need to claim(because gaspar asked for it?)..if anyone needs to claim it is vollkan.

[curiouskarmadog]

speaking of vollkan he has posted all over this site, but it avoiding this game even though he knows we are at deadline....THIS IS NOT TYPICAL VOLLKAN PLAYING.

[curiouskarmadog]

well my (our) top two suspects at the end of the day yesterday were town, says a lot about my scum finding skills I guess. Noted that the two in the other room are not among our numbers yet...

[curiouskarmadog]

tried rereading the last couple of pages of the end of yesterday...think I will have reread further back...do so now.

[curiouskarmadog]

Des, need to reread before I am certian of anything.

[curiouskarmadog]

So there it is, there's probably an SK, but if there is, it's not Gaspar or Destructor.

Well it would be like the mod to include a role that was useless and essentially a red herring. If there was no SK and it was just the mafia killing, I could see the mafia killing Nab to make it look like there was an SK, especially if Gaspar and Destructor was mafia, for it might clear them....but at the same time, seems like a useless kill (for mafia) when they. Anyway, if there was a SK that kill would all but make sense...so really dont know what to make of it.

With a game this size, I assume there are more than 2 "sides", so the one kill (murder) a night thing is confusing. Another possibility (dont know if anyone has mentioned it) is that we could be a cult game. Though I think I read somewhere that Mith dislikes cults. I doubt we are in a cult game though. Someone would have come forward sooner with this suggestion if we had a town anti-cult role floating around out there.

so if I were to trust (believe not a red herring) Nab's investigations..then that eliminates Gaspar and Des. Gaspar has been tipping my radar for awhile, but I guess he is not the lynch for today. Gaspar seem very sure of X as well...so I will throw him on the back burner today too. Even though I REALLY dislike the fact he was trying to spin the ZK as a pro town role.

To answer Des's question...I thought that MBL might have been town given his bold attacks Day 2 on OMGL and his vote on Niv...but I think I am confusing "not mafia" for town. I agree that maybe it is time for MBL to claim.

I've been thinking that Thesp is vig...

why? why do you feel he is the vig versus the ZK

Thesp, why am I the other on your list..care to explain..

[curiouskarmadog]

X, that does not answer the question...you provided a "when" answer when I was looking for a "why" answer...also, if you think that Thesp is the SK why arent you voting him?

jesus fucking christ gaspar, you still vouching for X?

[curiouskarmadog]

1) You scumbags try and trick town into voting for people like me by making bogus cases

and what was your role during the OGML lynch?

[curiouskarmadog]

I have said I felt you were town, even on this page I have stated that...I called you out after the Niv lynch, because you said you werent going to say anything because you were a bad scum hunter (or something of the like)...I called you today because of your silly comment about people trying to trick people into voting...however, is what you did any different that what you are accusing other's of? You lead the charge against OGML, but you dont feel like you were making a "bogus case"?

But just because I felt you were town doesnt mean that opinion will stay the same...once you form an opinion about someone in a game does it stay the same no matter what?....all I did was ask you a question, why such a response? What was your role in the OGML lynch, and how is it different than what you area accusing people of now..please dont avoid the question this time around.

[curiouskarmadog]

Maybe the third time is a charm MBL, please address my questions..please do not avoid them again.

But just because I felt you were town doesnt mean that opinion will stay the same...once you form an opinion about someone in a game does it stay the same no matter what?....all I did was ask you a question, why such a response? What was your role in the OGML lynch, and how is it different than what you are accusing people of now..please dont avoid the question this time around.

CKD: I wouldn't put Xtox at 100% like I indicated yesterday, but I'm still very confident that he is protown.

Is this based on they way FL and Niv interacted with him? To be honest, I thought you were breadcrumbing something much more compelling, but now I'm confused.

qft

[curiouskarmadog]

MS, I thought MBL voted for niv...will have to reread I guess.

CKD, when exactly where you informed that you would be returning to the main group? At the end of day 1, or at the end of night 1? Depending on your answer, I may have spotted something.

Our day was just waiting around for you guys to finish up...when the following day started, we were here...I dont recall getting a PM and I dont delete PMs until the game is over. I think it was explained in the scene....I could be wrong, though..I really dont remember exactly. I remember being told that a door opened and we go upstairs, but I dont recall if that was in this thread or in the other thread.

[curiouskarmadog]

X, that does not answer the question...you provided a "when" answer when I was looking for a "why" answer...also, if you think that Thesp is the SK why arent you voting him?

jesus fucking christ gaspar, you still vouching for X?

How have I been scummy in any way? I fail to see.

Not sure who i'd be happy to lynch/not lynch right now.

I just realised I accidently gave away my role when I made the comment about night falling conveniently so yeh i'll just claim it i'm a vanilla townie.

again, YOU ARE NOT ANSWERING WHY..this is the third time I have had to ask..WHY DO YOU THINK THAY THESP IS THE SK?

also Thesp, please answer my last question directed to you.

[curiouskarmadog]

I actually met why do you think that Thesp is a vig OVER a SK...when did you say you thougth he might be the sk?

I never said I think that, I said might.

WHY...DO...YOU..THINK..THAT..THESP..IS...the vig over a sk??

I've been thinking that Thesp is vig...

I've been thinking that Thesp is vig...

why? why do you feel he is the vig versus the ZK

[curiouskarmadog]

X, you are really trying my patience here.

In a lot of my games, I think a lot of people are protown, but I dont immediately think they are a vig.

why...do you..think..that thesp is a vig?

[curiouskarmadog]

and when you think you know if someone is a protwon power role, do you typically share that information with everyone for no reason? and do you think that is usually good play?

So what you are saying (please correct me if I am wrong)..is that you think that Thesp is protown AND a killing role based on a vibe and nothing really concrete? So now that it has been decided that we are probably dealing with a SK versus a vig...do you think that Thesp is still a killing role? Why or why not.

[curiouskarmadog]

MS, I care about your dislike why? You dont find it odd that he proclaims that he thinks Thesp is a vig, but doesnt provide reasoning. Lets say that X really thinks that Thesp is the vig, or lets say that Thesp really is a vig, you feel it is ok for X to say that? WHy are you not curious to his motivations?

I am curious why he thought that Thesp was a vig, and now that we probably dont have a vig, does X think he is the SK? I want to see how/why his opinions change..it is called scum hunting, so your "dislike" is noted.

These are fair questions. MS, why didnt you have a problem with X stating he thought Thesp was a vig (out of no where), but you have a problem with me following up with why X would say that and his thoughts now?

[curiouskarmadog]

Gaspar, your thoughts on NabNab claim and his death? You think vig killed NabNab or mafia?

I am curious about X's thoughts NOW after Nab's death..I am curious why X thinks Thesp's has a killing role (based on his play)...I am curious why X felt it important to tell us that.

I am not sure why you are not understanding my questions gaspar.

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod, going to be gone friday until monday, should be posting again on Tuesday...posting in all games.

[curiouskarmadog]

Thesp, dont be coy...why do you feel that I am more scummy than everyone after MBL?

and same question to you Thesp that I ask gaspar..your thought on Nab's claim..his death last night?...have no affect on your thoughts about a sk?..a vig? both?

[curiouskarmadog]

I said I agree he should claim..what else do you want of me. and third time thesp, why do you feel I am more scummy than everyone else besides MBL..please answer this time.

[curiouskarmadog]

your point?

4th time...now I am hung up on why you refuse to answer the question.

[curiouskarmadog]

and if you could answer the question before the day is out..rather hear it today than tomorrow

[curiouskarmadog]

back earlier than I thought, need to read the last page or so to see what I have missed, though it doest appear to be anything worth while..also note that Thesp has avoided my question again, why is that?

thesp..please answer my questions..and this time include why you keep avoiding answering it today, because I would like the information before tomorrow.

why do you find me more scummy than everyone else beside MBL?

mostly posting to avoid a strike/warning.

[curiouskarmadog]

also and if I miss it...MBL, you claim was missing a secret word..please provide.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, the claims of OGML, Niv and Vollkan also didn't have secret words. Why are you asking for a secret word from MBL now, if you didn't ask for their secret words?

I believe vollkan provided one..

why indeed?...quit role fishing.

[curiouskarmadog]

thesp, so basically because I was in the basement? Because the fact that I am "uptight" about being second on your list doesnt not put me second on the list. the effect has nothing to do with the cause.

and for the record, I am not uptight because I am second..I am uptight, because you would not provide reason then avoided the question numerous times.

[curiouskarmadog]

Because the fact that I am "uptight" about being second on your list doesnt not put me second on the list. the effect has nothing to do with the cause.

I agree with that, which is why I didn't list it as a reason I put you second on my Condorcet. It's just confirming your place there for me. Why the baseless attack here?

baseless attacks? Man, I just wanted you to answer a question. There was nothing baseless about the FACT you avoided the question.

as to the other "reasons" that you feel is important. "you felt really really off to me" is really a cop out to the answer and is nothing but, "I have a vibe about you". Wow what an easy answer to fall back on..nothing concrete all personal. I dont have a problem with "vibes", I have a problem with you not saying that when I first asked the question. Are you embarassed that you really have no reason to put me second on your list when you did?

Again, you really dont explain how "the way you arrived here" has to do with me being scummy...so there only REAL concrete thing that you have is that I was in the basement and now, I have a problem with you avoiding questions ("uptight")...

[curiouskarmadog]

Is there anything else (besides the reaction to this placing)?

again, my "reaction" has a.) nothing to do with the placement, it is his lack of explanation that caused the "reaction" and b.) came after the placement...so my reaction has absolutely nothing to do with the placement.

I'm confused - you have nothing against vibes, but you assert vibes are "no reason"? You're also acting as though I hadn't expressed this yesterday anyway - my discomfort with you is nothing new, just reasserted. Yesterday you attempted to dissuade an MBL claim, you throw out a number of suspicions all over the place, you attack Gaspar and Xtoxm (who are way closer to the townie side of things to me), and post very little about the three top lynch candidates yesterday. You can call that "just vibes" if you want, they make me more suspicious of you than the other players.

Gaspar was calling for three people to claim, I didnt think that was necessary or exact protown (I guess you did). I thought that vollkan and/or NN was scum, and didnt see MBL as such. I still dont like X, would you explain why you think he is so town, the only reason I even backed off X yesterday was I took Gaspar's defense of him as a soft claim.

Now you are adding reasons to the why you think I am scummy. Why couldnt you just say this when I asked you the first time? Why did I have to press you for it? If you think I am scummy, dont you want the whole town to know why? Why did I have to ask you 4 times to give out this information?

[curiouskarmadog]

Fishing? Rolefishing? My post definately wasn't intended as such. I noticed a change in CKD's behaviour (he didn't ask OGML, Niv or Vollkan for their secret words, he did ask MBL for his secret word), and wanted to know if there was a reason for that. I expected to hear a change of opinion regarding secret words, possibly combined with the fact that CKD wasn't there when Niv claimed, and didn't log in after Vollkan claimed. I did not regard my question as being role related.

there is a reason for it...why else would I be asking for it? I bet if you think real hard, you might figure out why I am asking for it now.

However, RogueBen's response strikes me as extremely odd: as if he knows that CKD's role has something to do with the secret words. But that is info RogueBen isn't supposed to have, and might imply scumteam. Thoughts, anyone?

It is pretty obvious why I am asking for it...you are just the one who decided to make the big deal out of it....so a big hand clap to you.

I believe vollkan provided one..

Vollkan said he had one, but didn't mention what it was.

someone else mentioned one..it must have been Nab.

[curiouskarmadog]

avoiding my question?

[curiouskarmadog]

wow..really? "usefulness of the response"?

here is somemore usefulness for you

I must be scum now.

vote Thesp

[curiouskarmadog]

you keep thinking that.

[curiouskarmadog]

still waiting for MBL to respond...NOW

[curiouskarmadog]

still waiting for MBL to respond...NOW

[curiouskarmadog]

I got a prod, though I am the only one (or two) who has posted here. Not liking Thesp, MS, or MBL...what MBL to answer my question before the day runs out, but it appears that he is just going to lurk till deadline.

is that 25 words?

[curiouskarmadog]

funny, I pressure you to provide your secret word, and you come out with this...please provide your secret word, now..and quit avoiding it...you have no reason to avoid or lie at this point, right?...

also interested in thesp's comment to this, since he thinks you are my scum buddy.

[curiouskarmadog]

also for now..

unvote

[curiouskarmadog]

time is ticking away, what is your secret word MBL?

vote MBL

[curiouskarmadog]

not sure why X thinks that MBL will die tonight...why do you care if I want his secret word? You think I am asking for it for shits and giggles?...If MBL wants us to believe he is really trying to help the town, then he wont lie and will provide his word.

[curiouskarmadog]

so why is MBL a bad lynch?

[curiouskarmadog]

how do you know that the "real ZK" is a vig? Why cant MBL be the ZK which is a SK?

[curiouskarmadog]

why do you think we have a vig?

why cant MBL be a SK?

are you following the game?

[curiouskarmadog]

well, we had two murders last night...A mafia group of 5 and a SK is not that far fetched. I am going to reread a bit, but putting a strong focus on voting patterns..

Gaspar, you have stuck up for X, I thought originally when you did this, it was because you either had some sort of investigation on him or you were masons of some type. I didnt press it any further, because I thought you were indicating that. Yesterday, you mentioned you were not as sure, which eliminated the mason bit. I think it is important to know if there is some reason youare stating this, or if this is just a read you are getting off him.

Des, I think I might be missing something, why do you no longer think Gaspar was bussing FL?

I am also VERY interested in Thesp's thoughts today (considering the MBL did flip SCAPE and not the SK/ZK)

[curiouskarmadog]

meh....if you say so. it was a safe vote at that point....but he could have easily jumped on the MBL wagon last second (like I think X did, going to have to review it) to try to buy town creds if he was SCAPE

[curiouskarmadog]

my point if missed, is you probably are right..but that only clears (some what) him of being SCAPE.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am also going to give out this information..I dont know if it helps or is useful...I dont know if it is flavor or not, but it is information...and it considers the missing two (I think)

I strongly believe that the Nibbler Twins' body had been dead longer than when we discovered it.

I dont know how much longer but I took that to mean that he died before Night 3 (we found his body Day 4).

[curiouskarmadog]

Hmmm, I actually have a problem claiming at this point...Or, I should say claiming in any other position other than last. Two, things that I want before I claim.

1.) Everyone's secret word....once I claim you will know why, I am curious to see who is honest and who is not..

2.) Lastly, I need to go last...i dont mind claiming today, but I need to go last...you will see once I claim, why I want to go last...that means Gaspar has to claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

Gaspar, I am still miffed by your town vibe of X

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, do you think Gaspar could still be scum? If not, is there a reason he should claim before you, if at all?

Once I claim fully you will understand why. I cant really explain why without claiming. Right now, I believe we have one SCAPE member left and a SK...I dont think that Gaspar is SCAPE (though he still could be, I mean if one mafia member wins they all win, so what does it matter that he bussed so many?) or he could be the SK.

2.) Lastly, I need to go last...i dont mind claiming today, but I need to go last...you will see once I claim, why I want to go last...that means Gaspar has to claim.

I don't like this. I will claim if absolutely necessary, but I feel that I should be the one in the seat of power for obvious reasons. I am not apt to go with "trust me, you'll understand later" type of pleas.

I am willingly to comprise then, if everyone's provides their secret word first, I will fully claim first. (it should really be obvious at this point, why this needs to occur in this order).

OK, so Gaspar's word is "received" Thesp, X, Des?

--One other thought to keep in mind. If Niv was telling the truth about having his target switched, it's possible that Rogueben

was

killed by SCAPE. I don't find this to be particularly likely, but I thought I'd bring it up to ensure that we don't overlook anything important.

I doubt that Niv was telling the truth..though using a scum mate to confirm your role was quite elementary.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think you are likely town. If Glork is scum, I think he has to be ZK (barring an insane bussing strategy that's not worth contemplating). I don't like curiouskarmadog at all and think he's scum. If it's a 5-man SCAPE group, I think he fits nicely as MBL's partner.

So please explain why I am most likely town...will you do it today or will you keep avoiding the question? Also (I plan on doing one) I would like to see Thesp's pov of past vote break downs.

I'm wanting a vig-or-not-vig claim from Xtoxm.

Actually, I want a precise claim from these:
{ZodiacKiller | NotZodiacKiller}
{ResponsibleForDeathsOnPreviousNights | NotResponsibleForDeathsOnPreviousNights}
I want each answered. Now.

My secret word is

like

.

not the ZK, not responsible for death.

noting your claimed word "like"

I do think it's time to massclaim,

so are you going to claim today if everyone else does?

[curiouskarmadog]

Claimed words

Des is relax
Gaspar is recieved
Thesp is like

X?

after his I will claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

well I stil want it...you can post it without a "big response"

[curiouskarmadog]

ahhhh

ok...have we all agreed to claim today?

[curiouskarmadog]

just waiting for confirmation for everyone else before I claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, will your claim reveal anything now that we've claimed our secret words?

I dont want to answer this unless we are claiming. If there was anything that I thought everyone should know immeidately you would know. Gaspar is the one calling for claims, I am just stating that I will not claim unless everyone agrees to do so...that also includes Gaspar.

[curiouskarmadog]

I keep forgetting that Nab said that about you...

Gaspar, your thoughts about those still gone..I know we have limited information about them and you have probably said it already, humor me agian if you have.

[curiouskarmadog]

said I would if everyone agrees to do so...everyone has not agreed.

plus the point has been made that the other two are gone, but I am sure they still have access to this thread...so if scum does reside between those two, they get to see our conversation (and claims)..your thoughts on that.

[curiouskarmadog]

claim is coming today, have been busy with getting my game ready and work...I also want Thesp to claim after

[curiouskarmadog]

I was hoping that the remaining scum might think I have some role that can look up secret words. Thus honestly giving me their word. This is why…

I am Jim Morrison. Every night, “The Lizard King”, can investigate a dead player. I may get a clue.

Night One: I investigated Gorrad, but found nothing useful. I wasn’t sure what I would find out by investigating a dead player that had been lynched. I was hoping that I would discover that there was scum on his lynch. Being that it was just me and OGML, that would help..got nothing

Night Two: I investigated FL. I obtained a word (no reason for me to provide that word yet). I was hoping this was the secret word of the SK that killed FL. No one provided the word. That is why I was trying to get honest answers about the word. So this is what I gather. 1.) Either one of you are lying. 2.) you are telling the truth and the killer is among those missing. 3.) “hotel” his a red herring or the secret word of FL.

Night Three: I investigated Flame, but found nothing useful.

Night Four: I investigated Nibbler Twins, I can tell that he has been dead longer than a day. Have no clue what this might indicate.

Night Five: I investigated NabNab, but found nothing useful.

++++

OK Thesp, claim now!

[curiouskarmadog]

3.) “hotel” his a red herring or the secret word of FL.

god dammit..so much for keeping the word to myself...fuck.

well, that was the word I got.

[curiouskarmadog]

well X, since you are around, maybe you can fully claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

Can you answer my Q please?

yes other than some flavor, my alignment: innocent, and my win condition, that is it.

[curiouskarmadog]

got to reviews nivs claim again..heading out for a couple hours will try to get back to this tonight...

[curiouskarmadog]

just checking in,

lets see if I have a handle on the game. Gaspar and X both have both placed their vote on thesp who I have been accusing has being scummy for sometime. Thesp in turns vote X, after he has been tooting that he felt I was scum for awhile...interesting.

Gaspar has not claimed,

Des, X, and Thesp have all claimed vanilla.

Thesp why are you suspicious about my claim?...if someone had said that there secret word WAS "hotel" then it would have been ground breaking...as it stands no one did...

would like to hear Gaspar's thoughts on the current state of events.

[curiouskarmadog]

And btw - My question to CKD was wandering about if he had Flavour.

X, I do have flavor...curious as to why you are so concerned about mine but have not asked for anyone else.

really paraphrasing..."Mr Mojo" is heading to the next roadhouse, comments on exploring a strange new road, and a bit about something odd about the bus.

and you are Micheal Jackson? Seems too creepy to be a fake claim..are you certian that you are vanilla, meaning in this context that you have not had any night actions?

[curiouskarmadog]

Thesp, reread my claim..where did I get the secret word? Then make a logical step and guess who I was trying to find with that word. I was trying to elude to the fact that I had secret words on alive players and wanted to see who would lie about their word. Afriad getting caught in a lie and a silly word, I was hoping someone would have said the word that I had.

there was a chance to find scum...

[curiouskarmadog]

hmmm, now this should be interesting..

[curiouskarmadog]

so thesp, when we all agreed to honestly claim, why did you lie?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD: Again, please go back and look at Niv's claim (Post 289) and explain what you thought of it at the time. Also, could you detail exactly when you were let out of the basement?

at the time, I dont think I really thought anything of it. While I was in the basement, it sounded similiar to mine due to this statement, "i can find out a little something about them". IT was vague. Mine was vague as well, "I may find out a clue about them". It was later I started doubting Niv's play and alignment (and claim, until Rogue confirmed).

We were let out when the Day started here.

Well coming into today I had X and Thesp the top of my scum list. I would have hammered Thesp, but I didnt want to cut the day short, I think that there is still information that can be squeezed out of it. I think we have two scum left (sk and SCAPE). ratio being 4:1:1. not counting those missing 2:1:1. I think it is important that we lynch correctly today. With two possible kills this could end poorly.

Gaspar, I think you should claim today. We need all of the information possible. Nab, cleared you as the SK, but you could still be SCAPE.

Most likely I will not be voting Gaspar today..whoever I vote today, I would like a chance of them being SCAPE or the SK. if all things are constant, I will be voting Thesp, but his day kill surprised me.

[curiouskarmadog]

-Based on N1 and the fact that CKD/OGML weren't announced as being present until the start of D2, I very strongly suspect that

CKD could not have killed Fae on N1

. Combine that with Gaspar/Des not being Zodiac, and that pretty much just leaves you.

I know you are defending me here, but last night we had two kills. if you think that people can not kill while missing, then we have two killers between you, me, des, and Thesp.

Also, no good will come out of me claiming at this point. I'm obviously not Zodiac. I'm obviously not SCAPE. There is ZERO strategic advantage to me claiming right now.

answer me this, I assume that if you had any ground breaking information, you would tell us at this time, right?

There's still the increasing possibility that there is no Zodiac Killer, or something is very wonky with that, or someone offsite has something to do with the kills in some way. There's also the

two

kills, which is extremely problematic if you lynch me and if I am scum and another scum is out there.

Funny, Gaspar is pushing that there isnt another SCAPE and Thesp is pushing that there is no ZOdiac Killer, but neither want to explain why there were two kills last night. The most common explanation is that we are dealing with two more scum left. Unless you two know something I dont. If you are scum, why is it problematic for us?

Also, I still don't understand why you wouldn't have killed ckd instead of Xtox. You've implied yourself that you thought ckd was scum who could hammer you, so what made Xtox the likelier scum of the two?

this is a good question. you thought I was scum, I hadnt voted yet. I had been fingering you as scum since yesterday. Wouldnt killing me stopped me from hammering? Why didnt you kill me?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm pretty much convinced that Thesp is the ZK or at the very least scum. Thesp's killing of Xtox looks to me like it was done in desperation to survive while at the same time forcing the town into what could be a lylo situation.

The only thing I'm worried about right now is the possibility that ckd is SCAPE. Assuming a SK and SCAPE still alive among us, whether we lynch scum or not, the town would be end-gamed at night with one more nightkill (assuming IH and/or Sarc don't join us). That said, I do think that there's a fair chance that SCAPE are gone.

ckd, how do you think Michel died?

I think he was killed by SK or Mafia..I dont know.

Des, I am curious, why are you worried about me being SCAPE and not the two missing? Why have you ruled out Gaspar being SCAPE, but not me?

and I am not understanding why everyone thinks that SCAPE could be gone..

[curiouskarmadog]

Funny, Gaspar is pushing that there isnt another SCAPE and Thesp is pushing that there is no ZOdiac Killer, but neither want to explain why there were two kills last night.

No, perhaps I wasn't clear - I think it's possible there's a different anti-town killing faction that is not the ZK. And the kills sure are consistent with a Gaspar who would want to be seen as not-SCAPE. And we've had a

lot

of pro-town roles dies without passing along information of what roles they might have had.

I think it would be an ass move on the part of the Mod if he included a role to find the ZK, but didnt have a ZK, but instead had a SK. To me, a ZK and SK are the samething.

[curiouskarmadog]

I also will be pissed if this scenario happens.

We kill Thesp and he turns out to be the SK...but that doesnt end the game.

the next day (if we have one) the two missing come into play..now we have to scum hunt given little information about them, almost like it is a Day 1.

At this point in the game, I dont think that Gaspar is the SK. I think Des is probably town.

I really hate Thesp's idea of a no lynch, especially with two possible kills floating around tonight. I have no clue why he is hesitant now to lynch, but lied about his dayvig status and quickly used it.

I should have hammered when I was given the chance.

Vote Thesp.

[curiouskarmadog]

I did check the other game, the mafia group did have 4 in their scum group...am I reading that right Gaspar?

[curiouskarmadog]

well maybe you are right then.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am curious if IH and Sarc are even bothering chatting whereever they are.

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, so was there anyone in your scum team the "hotel" as a secret word?

[curiouskarmadog]

the=with.

[curiouskarmadog]

that he only had two kills? He has lied to us twice now to save his ass. He is scum. What degree are you banking on? What if he actually has three kills? You cant possibly think we should no lynch?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, please explain two things.

First, if you weren't allowed to join the main party until dawn of D2, why did you make such a big "in retrospect" deal about choosing Gorrad as indicated in your claim in 1233?

Secondly, OMGL posted this:

CKD may believe we got out because we lynched somebody but we were not told why we were brought back to the main group.

The cut scene was simply Mr. Grey finding us trapped in the basement and saying something like "Oh you poor things have you been stuck down here all day? I'll have rooms made up for you."

....which seems to indicate that you were let out before night ("I'll have rooms made up for you") as part of the lynchscene ("The [presumably only] cut scene").

1.) I am not sure what you are asking. Are you asking why I chose Gorrad? Because it was the obvious choice, at the time, I didnt know what "clue" I could get from investigating the dead. I assumed, I had a choice between Gorrad, MM, and probably "The Reader" (though I never asked if I could). I didnt know if the clue would indicate if scum was on the lynch or not. If somehow it did, I would know that OGML was scum.

2.) I dont really remember when things happened (as I have stated). I remember being told that we were let out. I thought it was in a PM, but when I went to check I didnt see one (and I dont typically erase PMs, while the game is going)..I wasnt able to check in the thread because it was closed. Seeing that I assumed that I could investigate MM makes sense that I was let out before night, but this happened 3 months ago, I really dont recall the sequence of events.

[curiouskarmadog]

Nibbler could have been lynched.

[curiouskarmadog]

Thesp, what makes you think the SK is among us?

SO Niv was fake claiming, and use Rogue to confirm his ability?

Now Thesp is trying to avoid a lynch, he is all for believing in the ZK..nice. SO now that you are being "honest", do you think that Nab really could find the ZK?

[curiouskarmadog]

So it is entirely possible that you could have killed Fae N1.

yes

[curiouskarmadog]

Nibbler could have been lynched.

Yes, this is possible. All I stated is that something killed Nibs.


CKD: In your opinion, what happened to SCAPE's kills N1-N4?

have no clue, what is your opinion? Thesp could be telling the truth that he only had a certian amount of kills....who is to say that number is 2 in a game this size? In Thesp's position, what would you claim?

[curiouskarmadog]

Gaspar, still want an answer to these questions.

that he only had two kills? He has lied to us twice now to save his ass. He is scum. What degree are you banking on? What if he actually has three kills? You cant possibly think we should no lynch?

[curiouskarmadog]

so you had a scum group of 5, only had 2 kills for a 21 person game, and as far as you know, no one else any powers..

am I understanding your claim correctly?

IS that even balanced?

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh, well I need to go, heading out for the July 4th weekend. I am keeping my vote on thesp, because he is scum. He is probably SCAPE, but I am not ruling out that he might be the ZK..scum is scum. He has lied several times today, why Gaspar is suddenly considering his "we only had 2 kills" bit is beyond me. He is the last of his group, and he would say anything to stay alive.

[curiouskarmadog]

still here packing.

Gaspar, do you have some knowledge that we dont. Why do you think that the SK/ZK is amoung us? Do you know that just because the others (missing two) are missing that they dont/cant have access to us at night? I dont have such knowledge, and many of your current assumptions seemed to be based on that. Gaspar, tell me why the SK/ZK cant being the among the missing and submitting kills here.

Also, I didnt misremembered anything...I dont remember how it played out...when we were let out. Dude, I didnt think I had to take notes to remember the stuff, because I didnt know the thread was going to disappear. It was either after the lynch here but before night, or when day started here. I thought it was through a PM, but it wasnt..so we must have been let out after the lynch here but before night...I just dont remember.

Gaspar, I am shocked that you are even considering a no lynch...you do know that Thesp has been lying all day (all game for that mattered). Why do you believe that SCAPE (if that is what he is) only had 2 kills? Why not three?..maybe he is saving one, who knows..he is scum trying to win a game.

[curiouskarmadog]

we were already told that we can not vote the others.

if you think that SCAPE could have a kill left, why in god's name would you want to no lynch?...

ok , so I did misremember that..I said that I thought that is how that happened...when I went to check the PMs it wasnt there, and I dont typically delete PMs until the game is done. I have said that the only thing that makes sense is that I was let out after the lynch but before the night....at the time, I didnt think it was a big deal.

[curiouskarmadog]

so you are assuming that if IH/Sarc are missing tomorrow that their totals are not included for endgame purposes?

so even though in the game we would be 3:1, you feel we will be 1:1, thus a lose. If that is the case, I will never sign up for another Mr. Grey/mith game again. I REALLY doubt that is the case. I dont want to bank the whole game on that strange assumption.

so let me ask you this Gaspar, what about Thesp's claim made you want to vote no lynch? Before you had no problem with it, what changed?

Given this analogy you just gave us for wanting to no lynch..

If we lynch SCAPE and the ZK kills, town loses. (One ZK and one town left.)

If we lynch the ZK and SCAPE kills, town loses. (One SCAPE and one town left.)

nothing about his claim should have changed your mind from lets lynch him to lets no lynch, since you were voting him on the basis he was the ZK.

the only people a no lynch would help is scum.

I am not banking that the ZK and SCAPE are going to cross kill each other..I am not banking that IH/sarc do not count toward our totals. I am not banking on that IH/sarc are townies (given your other assumption that the ZK can not kill from another room).

I am starting to think that maybe Thesp might really flip ZK after all.

[curiouskarmadog]

BTW, this is also something that makes me confused about Thesp's behavior. If he were scum and wanted to pitch the whole "two kills" thing, wouldn't he say "let's lynch CKD then you can lynch me tomorrow when there are three alive" or somesuch?

you are right that doesnt make since. he is scum, he lies...I dont believe his claim....I think he could be the ZK...I think he could have more kills if he is SCAPE. Thesp's claim has saved him from being lynched, so I dont think his "behavior" is that confusing.

first he lied about being vanilla.
then he lied about being a one shot vig.

why would you be willingly to believe anything he says now.

Gaspar, you neer answered my question from before..what is it about Thesp's claim that you think is truthful?

[curiouskarmadog]

willing=willingly

[curiouskarmadog]

I have already told you that there may be a degree of truth to Thesp's latest claim -- namely, that he may in fact be SCAPE. Are you being intentionally dense? I went from "Thesp is obviously the ZK" to "Thesp is obviously scum, but what if he really

is

SCAPE."

so let me ask you this Gaspar, what about Thesp's claim made you want to vote no lynch? Before you had no problem with it, what changed?

Given this analogy you just gave us for wanting to no lynch..

If we lynch SCAPE and the ZK kills, town loses. (One ZK and one town left.)

If we lynch the ZK and SCAPE kills, town loses. (One SCAPE and one town left.)

nothing about his claim should have changed your mind from lets lynch him to lets no lynch, since you were voting him on the basis he was the ZK.

please answer my dense question.

[curiouskarmadog]

damnit..I am offical gone now...be back Sunday..wish Des could have been here today.

[curiouskarmadog]

I went from "Thesp is obviously the ZK" to "Thesp is obviously scum, but what if he really is SCAPE."

but given you analogy of if we kill the ZK we lose?..what changed? you know what I am asking here.

[curiouskarmadog]

ahhh..I see..ok fiance is yelling...I am out.

[curiouskarmadog]

Des did you read Mr. Grey's last game at all?

as for my role, it is what it is, I am not sure what the usefullness of it is, unless someone has some sort of ability to read secret words. Interested in people's suggestions of who I should investigate tonight.

And given the events of the day, and the closeness of the deadline..what do you think the best choice of action is?

Your thoughts on Thesp's and Gaspar's no lynch opinion?

[curiouskarmadog]

my mind just exploded...ghost mechanic? ghost words? ghost killings? and all I got was "hotel"? Glad I didnt get Niv's clue, that would have sent me going down the wrong path, which I think might have been game changing.

Sorry to have to lie about my name..I figured if told you the truth, I would be lynched faster than I could have argued.

fun game, reading the ghost forum was great. wonder if the Count will be in the 3rd game since he has survived another game.

[curiouskarmadog]

yeah, pre/in as well if you are taking them..

Nibbler was a guardian alt?

how funny.

[curiouskarmadog]

somebody should nominate this game...I will second.

[curiouskarmadog]

if he does not take pre/ins can I request a PM letting me know the game is taking players.

overall I think I did a fair job...got pretty good reads of Thesp and Niv. Thought MBL was scummy when he attacked OGML, but then couldnt imagine scum, really pushing the way he did. I was completely off about vollkan, but I think he would admit his play has been changing as of late. Completely wrong about Xtoxm too..which reminds me..one of the things I couldnt get my head around was Gaspar's defense of him...then you spouted some line that made me think you guys were masons (which it might have been designed to do that) and I dropped it..Why were you sure he was town? I think almost every action X did was scummy.

a Guardian/DGB player...wow, sound like a fun time wrapped in motion sickness with a sprinkle aneurysm .

I dont think I could even imagine a DGB/CKD player...so much anger...so much silliness.