California Trilogy - Going to San Francisco (Game Over!)

[OhGodMyLife]

I shall now be confirmed

[OhGodMyLife]

Basically its as CKD said.

Gorrad came right out of the gate with a vote even though we knew very little about our situation except that we could hear the conversation in the main room (ie read the main game thread) and if we chose to we could lynch somebody.

When CKD didn't hammer given the opportunity he switched his vote to give me the opportunity to hammer. He claimed that each group must have scum in it, something that I disagreed with but which made it seem like he had inside knowledge of the situation.

At that point I said that I was not at all willing to lynch CKD and the only person I might want to lynch was him. He said that if lynching him was what it took to out scum that was fine, because after we lynched him and the scum killed the other innocent it would be glaringly obvious when only one person returned that they were scum. He was obviously wrong about how the game mechanic of the missing people worked, and I tried to point out that this was a possibility, but he wouldn't have it.

He claimed roleblocker when CKD voted him and I announced my intention to do so if he didn't come up with a good explanation for his ridiculous play and what looked like inside knowledge. Although his role reveal doesn't tell us if he actually was or not I see no reason why he would lie about that, so he probably was an RB. I hammered him because roleblocker seemed like a conveniently ambiguous role in terms of alignment and because he had been playing like he knew something we didn't

After the lynch CKD and I just sat around and got to share our views on what was going on upstairs. We were still under the same posting requirements as normal even though there were only two of us.

I think that Gorrad was wrong about there being scum in each group. CKD and I both reacted in the same way to what he was doing, which is the way I would expect town to react. Gorrad looked really, really scummy. Thats why we lynched him. I think CKD is town and have no intention of ever voting for his lynch.

FoS: Xtoxm

for already trying to make it seem like a foregone conclusion that one of us must be scum

[OhGodMyLife]

also note to the other "missing" group (I assume like us you can read the main thread)

make good notes of what occurs and what order. I thought that the thread might be around when we merged with the main group but it didnt.

QFT. I am going by memory because I thought the thread would still be there for myself and CKD to refer back to.

Xtoxm, our directions in the basement did not say we had to lynch someone, they said that we could. We were also not told under what conditions we would be returned to the main group. Gorrad was lynched because he was acting scummy by making the same claim that you are now making, that there must be scum in each group of missing people, without any (innocent) way of knowing if this were true. Do you want to go the way of your buddy and be lynched for the same reason?

[OhGodMyLife]

So then do you think we're both lying about something? Together? I think you'll agree it is totally out of the question that CKD and I could be scum together. Outside of that scenario, why would be both lie about the same thing.

We have given you the whole story already, thats all there is to it.

[OhGodMyLife]

CKD may believe we got out because we lynched somebody but we were not told why we were brought back to the main group.

The cut scene was simply Mr. Grey finding us trapped in the basement and saying something like "Oh you poor things have you been stuck down here all day? I'll have rooms made up for you."

[OhGodMyLife]

Interesting... Was Gorrad's alignement revealed to you after you had lynched? What do you remember discussing? Any idea what would have happened if the main thread had lynched before deadline?

We got the same reveal the whole crowd got this morning as soon as he was lynched - that is, just his innocence and role name, not his actual role. We talked about who we thought looked scummy and who looked like town, the details of which I'd rather keep between myself and CKD. I look at what we had after lynching Gorrad as a short term masonry. I have no way of knowing what would have happened had the lynch occurred up here before deadline but I presume we would have ended up coming back just the same.

vollkan, between claim and hammer, I really dont recall...if I recall correctly, OGML did wait for sometime (days?) before he hammer.

I think it was about 24 hours, in which time we were all online together at one point and there was some heated discussion going. Gorrad was sticking to his guns in that he insisted that even lynching him was good because it would mean the scum would kill the other townie and become blatantly obvious, and that he was willing to be sacrificed for that. I thought that was a patently ridiculous theory and also some kind of WIFOM reverse-psychology BS to get himself out of being lynched.

[OhGodMyLife]

When he died, I mentioned I thought he was lying and wondered why and then went on to post something like "gorrad, if you are still reading this, that really was a bad play"...

I do remember your post addressed to dead gorrad, but I didn't realize until the discussion in here with everybody that you still thought his being an RB had been a lie. I just assumed it was no role reveal, and we never discussed that in particular in the basement.

[OhGodMyLife]

Nasty little threats, MBL? Where exactly have I been nasty or threatening. I haven't had a chance to really go through the thread and do any scum hunting yet, but I'm answering the questions posed of me and trying to clarify for people what happened in the basement. I'm not sure where you're drawing the conclusion that I'm trying to shake the town off of my tail, until you just came out of left field with this I wasn't aware there was anybody ON my tail to shake off.

[OhGodMyLife]

MBL, why is it so unlikely that three townies would be put in such a situation? Do you think it necessary that one of the other missing three be scum as well? I personally find it more unlikely that more than one scum would be among all six people who were originally missing, as two/??? however many scum there are is bound to be a high proportion of the bad guys.

I don't think trying to outguess the mod on this is the wisest course of action. Its exactly that kind of thinking that got gorrad lynched.

And what exactly about my play is raising red flags with you?

[OhGodMyLife]

Woah, hi Gaspar, thanks for agreeing with me as I wrote my post.

[OhGodMyLife]

Niv, how on Earth is the setup speculation I've done relating to the situation I was thrust into worse than the setup speculation being undertaken by MBL and earlier Xtoxm where they are asserting that there must be scum in these missing groups. Do you not see the inherent problem in pushing this theory forward, in that when one of myself and CKD dies they'll have given themselves the basis to mislynch the other on nothing besides trying to outguess the mod?

And you ignore the post by Gaspar where he engages in the same kind of speculation about what could or could not be going on with the missing players that was made at literally the exact same time as mine. Nice.

Vote: MBL

, Xtoxm, Niv, {Others}, CKD, No Lynch, OhGodMyLife

[OhGodMyLife]

Have you commented on the alignment of anyone upstairs or downstairs yet?

I've certainly stated my position on CKD, which remains the same: I have no intention to vote him, ever, because I firmly believe him to be pro-town. Aside from this, no I haven't yet, but it will come in time.

Have you OMGUS-voted me?

No, I voted you for the ridiculous false dichotomy you have created in playing under the assumption that one of me or CKD has to be scum.

Also, major FOS to Gaspar for zeroing in (incorrectly) on my bait (setup speculation about the basement) and ignoring the crux of my point which is that OGML has played scummily.

So basically you FoS Gaspar for realizing that you presented a dangerous presumption about the setup which could easily lead to multiple mislynches if followed through to its logical conclusion... nice.

[OhGodMyLife]

GLORKSPAR I BEAT YOU TO THAT ONE

[OhGodMyLife]

WE SIMULPOSTED CALLING OUT MBL ON THE CRAPLOGIC AND I VOTED HIM FIRST SO NYAAA

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm in the process of rereading the game, which I will admit I paid less attention to than I should have while in the basement, at least while Gorrad was alive and we were in our own heated discussion. Will be giving views and updating my condorcet when I have finished.

MBL, characterizing my play as "disastrously scummy" is way over the top. I admit I haven't been helpful yet (except in noting what a crock of shit yours and xtoxm's ideas on what must and must not be the makeup of the missing players groups are), but I don't see a very great difference in what I've done and what CKD has done since returning. I wonder why you chose me over him in your witch hunt, and why you can't see that we've both simply been lazy. I am not waiting for somebody else to make a case, as you say, and just hoping somebody else gets lynched: I am actively trying to get you lynched. NabNab seems to agree with you on whether or not my vote for you was OMGUS, but let me explain again why it wasn't. I firmly believe and have stated why it is my belief that what you've proposed and done in reference to mine and CKD's situation is dumb, dangerous and most importantly scummy.

[OhGodMyLife]

It turns out that my dorm is the only one on Tulane's campus not connected to the college's power grid, so it loses power when this part of the city does. Which is what just happened. Posting from my friend's room to explain the delay in my promised post. It'll happen when I get power back/stop being social.

[OhGodMyLife]

My condorcet, with reasons:

MBL - You're trying very, very hard to convince people I am made of pure, unadulterated evil, and have simultaneously gone about extremely dangerous setup speculation that seems to either set up a second mislynch (on CKD next) or directly contradict your hypothesis that I am scum (if there really is a role out there that put the basement-dwellers there in the first place). You're also bunching together anyone who got a whiff of the shit you were selling and trying to paint the lot of us badly when you were the one who came out with the craplogic in the first place. You remain my preferred lynch for the day.

Xtoxm - You did the same thing as MBL is now doing with the setup speculation, albeit in a much more straightforward manner. You were also willing to admit it was not necessarily the case. However, day two you've been doing very little aside from playing follow the leader with Gaspar (even admitting so and saying its because Gaspar looks pro-town), and day one I think there were a few too many people pulling out the VI defense for you, to the point where you barely even had to defend yourself. I think you should have been the lynch yesterday, and if you do cardflip scum then all the people who harped on the VI factor when it looked like you were about to get strung up will go under serious scrutiny.

BBMars - I agree with the case already made against you by others and will move you further up my condorcet if necessary to secure a deadline lynch, though this is not in any way preferable to the two I've already listed.

Rogueben - Something about your day one play made me uneasy, and I also think you're one of the more likely to have been trying to get the wagon off of Xtoxm to save a scumbuddy. Post 365 also looks to me like a warning to a scumbuddy to stop being dumb, since you bring up his poor play but don't actually come to a conclusion as to it meaning anything.

LML - Well, you haven't actually done anything yet this game, my suspicion comes from Sensfan. If Xtoxm is in fact town, I see him as the one most taking advantage of the easy wagon, as he jumps on late and later expresses the opinion that he'd like to lynch a pro-town VI just to be rid of a distraction. Other than wagoning X, the only thing he did at the end of the day was call for claims for M-M and Niv.

Niv - You are only listed above {People} because of your last line of Post 451 (which is what put you on my last condorcet) and for your response to my complaint about that, in Post 479 where you acknowledge that you "must have missed the other two" but do nothing to change your condorcet to reflect that.

{People} - I don't have strong feelings on anybody I didn't specifically list. The only one I want to mention is Pooky. I'm not a fan of his method but I don't think its scummy and obviously he isn't going to change it for me if he's unwilling to do so after heated discussion with Vollkan and the repeated attacks from Niv. I hope on later days your tactics will change.

CKD - Not willing to see him lynched. I'm town, he's town. His actions in the basement run counter to what would be in his best interest as scum. There is really very little that would change my position on him.

Unvote; Vote: MBL

, Xtoxm, BBMars, Rogueben, LML, Niv, {People}, CKD, No Lynch, OGML

[OhGodMyLife]

If I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow. And I'm not wrong.

...you know, thats a really dumb thing to say no matter what you're alignment is.

[OhGodMyLife]

You find LML scummy cause SensFan piled on Xtomx-town.
You find Rogueben scummy cause he's protecting Xtomx-scum!

Those suspicions represent two divergent possibilities. Obviously one of those two would drop off of my suspicion list depending on Xtoxm's alignment. What is wrong with listing both? I am clearly not trying to lynch either of them based on that suspicion at this point, but I am presenting my opinion as it is now.

For god's sake, he doesn't even rebut the case against him

Your case against me was that I hadn't engaged in any scumhunting yet. How am I supposed to rebut that when, as I freely admitted, its true. Other than pointing out this lack of scumhunting from me, you went into hyperbole mode and used increasingly strong language to deride for this same fact over and over again. I can't rebut your initial point, but I have done what I can to remedy the problem of not contributing by, get this, contributing. You had obviously already reached the conclusion that I am scum, and not taken into account that I could be anything else (lazy, stupid, a suboptimal player), and therefore what I did contribute is apparently meaningless in your eyes. Not everybody in this game is the paragon of mafia players that you seem to take yourself to be. You will be the one who looks foolish when you are proven wrong in your assertion that I am such total scum.

I would also appreciate it if you could remain civil - regardless of your opinion of my alignment in this game, I don't want to be called a creep.

[OhGodMyLife]

On my way out the door to go to work, but I just skimmed whats happened and saw a question about games where I've been scum. This my only completed game as mafia: Newbie 507

Will be back after work for real posting

[OhGodMyLife]

I actually did my homework, because I recalled hearing something about you. You're a very capable scumhunter, that is, when you're not scum.

Well thank you, but thats not entirely true. Here are the rest of my completed games, in order of my own opinion of my play. The point here is that its not just when I'm scum that my scumhunting is subpar, sometimes I just suck as town.

Open 61 - This is probably the high point of my scumhunting career.
Mini 545 - I was pretty helpful in this one, though sometimes misguided. Still a good showing for me.
Newbie 505 - This is another good game for me, though I almost led the town to its doom by being utterly incorrect day two.
Newbie 522 - Though losing this was a team effort, my bad play was a big part of it.
Newbie 512 - I replaced in and got outplayed by the scum. I could have done a lot better.
Newbie 529 - My worst showing in a completed game, I was absolutely detrimental to the town and probably the main cause of losing this game.

There are also two ongoing games that I am dead town in, one in which my play was mediocre at best and a second where my play was abysmal and suffers some similar problems to what is getting me in trouble here. They're easy to find if you want to look, linking to ongoing games is a no no.

MBL, on day one you welcomed Mr. Scrabblepoints to the big leagues. This is also my first game with most of the old hands on this site, and its a much different game playing with veterans than playing in those newbies, mini normals and open games. I'm getting the picture here from the amount of backlash to my post that I'm way out of my element. I'm not sure there's anything I can actually do to prove to you that I am town - I legitimately read the thread and drew the conclusions that I posted. It will be clear when I'm dead that I wasn't fabricating that post.

[OhGodMyLife]

So get to work helping us track down your fellow dirtbags!

Well, I believe they're actually

your

fellow dirtbags, but don't worry, I am doing what I can to track them down

15-20 pages of research paper are taking precedent this evening however. I don't think I'll be missed, as activity is pretty slow even with the impending deadline, but I'll be procrastinating by checking my watched topics at least every hour or so, and if anything earth shaking happens I'll make my presence known.

[OhGodMyLife]

@OGML: I don't believe that you addressed my previous post, regarding your stance on Rogueben.

You're right, I'm sorry, in the landslide of criticism I received for that whole post I forgot about your point. However..

This is conspiratorial and misleading.

That is hardly something I can actually address. Its definitely not the former, and if you think it is the latter that is not intentional.

BBMars wagon is dead.

unvote vote OGML

.

Mindlessly bandwagon much?

[OhGodMyLife]

Go on, MBL, tell me again how you're not gonna try to lynch CKD after I turn out to be innocent.

[OhGodMyLife]

Really dislike OMGL here. MBL hits the nail right on the head with his responce.

Please take a look at these two posts next to each other:

Your insinuation that I'm trying to set up any kind of double lynch on CKD is a LIE. Utter fabrication.

This.Is.Really.Weird.

I was getting a strange vibes from volkan. I think this is significant, because I usually get strong town vibes from him, even when he is scum...dont know what in particular sparked it, though....going to reread.

I am not sure why vollkan is pinging a Dar(scum?)..his play is different.

vollkan, it is more your playstyle is different than I am used to with you. That doesnt mean much, because you have fooled me before as scum (with the same style as town)...but something is different...at any rate, I need to read.

Keeping up with the game, but still need to reread some more, and read vollkan in a vacuum..don’t have the time to do either right now.

I found vollkan post (49) quite odd. Maybe he did have an experience that made him make a preemptive statement, but it was still strange. I think it is a null tell, but it isn’t like the vollkan I am used to seeing.

After rereading I am not sure what stuck out about vollkan’s posts to me. He does seem different somehow, but that means little. I have seen vollkan play both scum and town and was fooled both times.

All that focus, and then you list him as 8th most suspicious. Hmmmmmmm.

When I pointed out how I thought he was lining his ducks up to shoot us down, one two, he told me it was an utter fabrication. Yet here he is, two pages later, laying the groundwork for a CKD lynch, which will look even more appealing to those of you who buy the "there must have been scum in the basement" theory after he gets me lynched today and it turns out I really am town.

CKD is town. I am town. At least two people (MBL, Xtoxm) have speculated that this can not be the case because they don't think the mod/some possible basement filling role would have put three townies down there. I can't say how many other people believe them, but buying that theory clearly leads down a road to a CKD lynch once I am lynched as town. Its bad enough to have myself getting mislynched. I don't want a second townie to go down simply due to a false pretense that if one of us isn't scum, the other has to be.

[OhGodMyLife]

L-1 and a day left til deadline almost assures my lynch here, but I feel a claim is still appropriate in this scenario. Fortunately I am no power role. Don't be lazy and let this go to a no lynch, guys. I'm reminded of the discussion started by SensFan on day one as to whether ones own lynch is preferable to a no lynch, and yes, while I'd prefer lynching somebody else over myself, I think for the benefit of the town lynching me is better than lynching nobody, so if y'all feel that I'm the play, get to it.

Claim

: Björk, Innocent, No power

[OhGodMyLife]

I have to give props to Fae and Niv for keeping us guessing up until it really became clear that SCAPE was a full blown scumgroup. The haunting of Pooky was pretty much entirely a result of their deceiving us.

Definitely a good game, could have gone either way right up to the end.

*Shakes fist at MBL*

[OhGodMyLife]

Glorkypoo, check the first post for links to both hidden threads (the basement, where CKD and I lynched Gorrad, and the Hotel California, home of the ghostly goings on). Also, if Prim doesn't return, what are your feelings on OhGlorkMyLife?

[OhGodMyLife]

We haunted nabnab because we knew there was no serial killer (due to all the kills having come from the ghosts) so we thought it was a SCAPE fakeclaim.