Surreptitious II: Secrets and Misdirection
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Bulbazak Survivor
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We had a back and forth earlier based on my case. Technicality arguments aside, I feel like I really had to push him to give reads and reasoning on those reads. Given his complaining about people scumreading him based on his predecessor, I tried awfully hard to get him to speak outside of that.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Did you ever give a reason why you're townreading Desp?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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If I didn't have a countdown to abide by, my vote would be back on the slot for this alone.In post 3798, Ramcius wrote:
Ok, let's talk, you say i do nothing, but what about other 5 ppl in group C? Desp, Trans, Rach, Von and Gingie? What they are doing to lynch scum so close to EoD?In post 3793, Thor665 wrote:
I gave a long list of non Alisae issues and you basically weaved around those also.In post 3792, Ramcius wrote:
if everything you want to talk is Ali, then yes, have a nice dayIn post 3790, Thor665 wrote:@Ram - all I see in that post is a giant list of excuses for you not to comment on anything.
Also, quite frankly, it *is* valid to talk about Alisae - you can't offer insight from within her own head, but that is not a valid excuse to refuse to discuss the slot totally.
That's a cheap dodge.
P-edit: Gingie, when you show your towniness as promised?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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As it is, I'd be sidling up next to deadline as it is. Maybe the mod will replace Eddie quickly and give us another extension?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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With Von, I kinda expect him to be absent. With Desp, not so much. Especially when I'm engaging him on this level.In post 3813, Elliberetta wrote:
Bulba you see that you can replace desp with vflare in the above yeah.@Elli: I think Desp is just trying to lay low here and hoping the pressure goes away.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I gave you all the time I have. Right now, I'm just hoping for a Eddie replacement and an extension. Otherwise, that's when I'll make a move to essentially shore up today's lynch, and I'm not excited about the prospect of Vonflare when I'm close to getting either of my scumreads lynched.In post 3818, Elliberetta wrote: You know giving me this whole deadline to get vonflare to slip makes it more likely he just lurks it out now yeah.
Next time you should lie lmao.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Then why not talk to someone else?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Pick someone. Ask questions. Try to figure crap out. It's not exactly hard.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Nope.In post 3838, Creature wrote:Anyone thinks there's scum outside {vonflare, Desperado, Ramcius}?
Even if Vax and I switched back, and even if the replacements don't come in (or they do and decide to stick with the wagon), where do you get the last vote?In post 3892, Majiffy wrote:Zak & Ginngie put your votes on Ramci and that gives us L-1.
We only go into B if there's a result. And even if we do go into B, chances are we're not lynching Thor or Majiffy. I'm pretty sure they're both town at this point. A lynch on either of them equals an auto-loss.In post 3905, Creature wrote:Tomorrow we're lynching in Group B and it's gonna be either Majiffy or Thor.
If scum ends winning this it's alright, just not gonna nominate them for any scummie.
Barring any surprises, A is where we go.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Reminder:
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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@Majiffy: Who are your scumreads in Group A? Because I'm doing the math, and I'm not sure it works out.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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v/la till Wednesday night is a good player. I don't know why you hate them.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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@Elli: You're one to make a big deal of time stamps. What do you make of Desp being online at 12:08 this morning and not posting anything? I'm sure if you were tracking his status, this would not be an isolated incident.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Desp is at L-1.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I'll do a better VC after I eat lunch.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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@Rowdy 3:Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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A goon flip would be really nice.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Going to wait to vote until everyone from A checks in.
@Majiffy: Both of your scumreads in C (Checkers and Ram) can't be correct, so which one do you think is most likely to be the goon, and what does the possible team look like? I don't necessarily need 2 names, but I'd imagine that you'll have at least one in mind based on associations.
@Elli:
I want to talk about this now. A traitor flip from Desp means that we can't really get good associations based on the flip, but I still find it bizarre that you were handed a goldmine in meta data on Desp and his stance, something that you base your playstyle on, yet you refused to look into it or his continued lurking from the game. Meanwhile, Von was just absent period, and you spent way more time and effort than was necessary trying to get him to "slip", even though absence from the slot was more indicative of it being Vonflare and not of alignment. Your attention was strangely weighted on a slot that common sense would have told you the absence was NAI compared to a slot where the absence was unusual. So what gives?In post 3928, Elliberetta wrote:I don't want to talk about it.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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You could have said as much. And that still doesn't explain you ignoring the mountains of meta data. You should have been all over that, if only to look at our first game together, which would have told you enough by itself. Instead, you pawned that off on Desp, as if you didn't have the time to look over a few game isos, and instead started stalking Von's school, which is actually not going to tell you anything related to his lurking, because Von is the type of player who always lurks, and instead just makes it sound like you have a stronger case than "I don't like lurkers.".In post 3965, Ellibereth wrote:I thought desp being afk and not claiming => desp town since it was optimal for despscum to claim pr there once it was obvious his lynch was inevitable save drastic action.
It turned out he was afk for very ikely out of game reasons though.
P-edit: If Ram is the goon, Toto is his partner in A.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I don't stalk players throughout the site. And I wasn't making a big deal over Desp's absence meaning he was scum. His reaction to me and his "tell" told me that much. I was just trying to get to the core of why you were treating Desp and Von so differently, especially when Von is known to lurk and Desp is not.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Essentially, you were holding Von to a higher standard than Desp, and you were ignoring Desp's lurking while attacking Von for the same thing.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I think that's bull.In post 3976, Ellibereth wrote:i actually still think desp thought the tell was real at some point and just decided to use it here to try and trick me lol.
I think Von would lurk regardless. And now that we know there's a goon left, I'm not seeing any connections to Von, and that tells me he's C's Mick.In post 3977, Ellibereth wrote:
I thought he was town because he was lurking when he was close to 100% the lynch while von lurking when he's close to 0% the lynch is a different story how is that not clear >.>In post 3975, Bulbazak wrote:Essentially, you were holding Von to a higher standard than Desp, and you were ignoring Desp's lurking while attacking Von for the same thing.
P-edit: I'm the one that turned the Desp wagon into a counterwagon, and I don't think Von was a reaction to the Ram wagon as it was an attempt to replicate the Mick wagon. I have it down to 2 possibilities. I'm just trying to figure out which one makes the most sense.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Not sure on the first. On Rach, though, she was pretty obv. town, so it was probably luck. I'll consider if the first kill is telling after we get more info.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Toto and Ram should unvote. We still have 3 more people in A who need to check in.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I've read the wall. I'll go back over it again later. Maybe.
P-edit: The kill should still be confined in the names that were in Group A. I double checked this with the actions in the last game, and it checks out.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I meant to say C there. If we go in C and vote scum, the kill will still be confined to the names that were in Group C. They don't get resorted until the next day.In post 4026, Creature wrote:
Do I need to draw for you?In post 4024, Bulbazak wrote:P-edit: The kill should still be confined in the names that were in Group A. I double checked this with the actions in the last game, and it checks out.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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@Chess: I wasn't arguing that we lynch in C, you chucklehead. I was saying that the theory of hitting scum in C means they can shoot outside the group was wrong. I want to wait for the last 2 in A to check in, and then barring a result, I want to lynch in A.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I know what Majiffy wants. I know why he wants it. I don't think we're going to agree on this point, so I'm not bothering. If you want to try to get him to change his mind by just yelling math at him, you're wasting your time. Wait until Vax and Dan have reported in, then try to sell him on a lynch in A.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Nah. Scum's Snarky and someone else. Likely Momo.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I feel we should lynch Toto on principal.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I don't think Majiffy is right here, but I don't think he's coming from a scum place. From his perspective Ram is and always has been scum, and the wagon compositions that cropped up to oppose his pet wagon confirm it. At most, you can accuse him of tunneling, but your arguments for why he is scum are dumb.In post 4131, Transcend wrote: also i can't even exasperate how stupid "x can't be scum because y got counterwagoned over them" is, especially in a game where ONLY 3 MAFIA MEMBERS KNOW WHO EACH OTHER ARE.
You are right about only 3 mafia members knowing who each other are, and that's why I think Von is town. There wasn't enough pushback. Scum with Von on their team either A.) protect him or B.) bus him. There wasn't enough of a push to bus, as that wagon never went anywhere. And for you saying that Ram was a counter to Von, let me remind you that A.) the Ram wagon cropped up BEFORE the Von wagon and B.) the Ram wagon never really gained anymore steam after I switched off it and onto Desp. It just sat there. If anything, Majiffy may be right that Von was a counter that rose up to oppose the Ram and Desp wagons, although I really don't put much stock in that theory. So saying that the Ram wagon was a counter to Von is just false, and the "Von equals scum" line of thought fails the association test.
In order for Von to be scum, his team just ignored him, and I'm not sure how likely that is.
I'm the one who literally got Desp lynched, so stfu.In post 4135, Transcend wrote:bulba, your reads have no fucking credibilitty this game.
As I've said, at most one of Majiffy/Thor is scum this game. Not both. And I'm really not sold on either of them being scum at this point. Eddie was MIA for most of the day, as he went V/LA and then asked for replacement, and that started about the time Elli got off the Gin wagon. Snarky is most assuredly scum, as he was playing the field yesterday. I've already explained on Momo. And Creature, though town, acting like he's a scum hunting god is laughable. Desp was an easy scum read. Majiffy/Thor is a "I don't like them" read.
Now I'm going to avoid this game until I work on Saturday and have seen Star Wars. Toodles.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Okay, I've seen Star Wars, and I'm ready to go.
Explain how they're scum. As I said before, I highly doubt both of Majiffy and Thor are scum. Plus, Snarky's the traitor, so there's that. As for Von, it's that he doesn't make sense as a goon in the grand scheme of things. There was no one protecting him, and Transcend's claim to the contrary is bull. A preexisting wagon does not equal a counterwagon, especially when no one on the wagon made an attempt to derail Vonflare. There's no evidence of bussing, as the Von wagon just seemed to flounder. At most, you can say that maybe his team was ignoring him, but then you need to come up with a plausible enough team that can carry Von AND carry off the kills we've seen (Rauth in particular.).In post 4187, Toto wrote:Bulba please explain how majiffy and von are town.
I think your assumption that his team super bussed him is incredibly flawed. It's obvious that Eli isn't bussing Von, unless you think she's hard up on town cred. Vax was more interested in buddying me, so I'm not really seeing him as hard pushing Von, even to bus. And as for you, I'm more concerned about how you were avoiding obv. scum Desperado, and I don't think you try bussing an obvious failing Vonflare wagon to just avoid bussing Desp. If anything, your vote and push on Von suggests that you were trying to stay away from the Desperado wagon, since, as Transcend pointed out, scum would have definitely known that Desp was scum at that point.In post 4189, Toto wrote:Btw your association analysis assumes eli, toto and vax are not buddies with Von. I thought you were scumreading me. Why can’t I be bussing Von again?
Your analysis doesnt line up with your presumed perspective
Ginngie's town.In post 4221, Creature wrote:If we choose C we're lynching Ginngie.
Going to bookmark this for later. Given current events, I'll need to think if my feelings on this post still holds weight.In post 4309, Ramcius wrote:Creature, why you think scum lynched Desp over Von?
So apparently I noticed Desp was obvious scum, saw that Elli and Chess were townreading him for who knows what reason, could have easily given him a town read for his "tell" reversal, yet I decided to uber bus him when I had a very comfy Ram wagon? Why do I do that as scum exactly?In post 4381, Creature wrote:Thinking group A scum are Sky_Paladin and Bulbazak.
Yep. That's me. The guy who got Desp lynched. Avoiding bussing.In post 4393, Creature wrote:
His reads bother me, as if he was trying to avoid bussing.In post 4390, Ellibereth wrote:is bulba?
Picking up on 178. Pizza is here.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Yes, because being extremely cautious about a slot equals buddying them now.In post 4427, Creature wrote:Bulbazak is also straight up buddying Thor.
What are you smoking? Thor's been following my pushes, not the other way around.In post 4436, Creature wrote:
I mean like "oh you're so town Thor your cases are so good"In post 4432, Ginngie wrote:Creature
You're saying Bulba and I are buddying Thor, a goon?
do you know how buddying works lmfao
VOTE: B
I saw. I'm not sure which phase we're in, so I'm waiting for a VC.
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I don't get how Thor-scum = Von-scum.In post 4504, Ramcius wrote:
So, what you think now about Von, when Thor is caught scum?In post 4490, Bulbazak wrote:
Going to bookmark this for later. Given current events, I'll need to think if my feelings on this post still holds weight.In post 4309, Ramcius wrote:Creature, why you think scum lynched Desp over Von?
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Thor's defense of Desp was pretty weak, but I can see where you get that. I don't see how that equals Von being scum with Thor.In post 4517, Ramcius wrote: Thor defended Desp
And? ThatIn post 4517, Ramcius wrote: Thor pushed for my lynchmightmake a case for you being town. It has nothing to do with Vonflare.
Thor said he was okay with the Von lynch, but had no interest in pushing the wagon. Given that Von is a lurker, it'd make sense that scum Thor would show approval but want to stay far away from the wagon (Remember Mick?). Again, it doesn't establish a connection, as that was a pretty common sentiment.In post 4517, Ramcius wrote: Thor ignored Von
Ginngie's town. Stop trying to create false dichotomies.In post 4517, Ramcius wrote: Or you are with Creature on Gingie!scum idea?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Thor flipping red means no such thing. It means it's highly unlikely, but that's it. I need to go back over everything tonight, but I still think Von is unlikely to flip scum. That still feels like Mick 2.0.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I really want to give a more indepth read of Transcend and Mikan, and all I feel I'll be able to do right now are half-hearted skims.
I have A down to {Toto, Paladin, Vax}, and I'm leaning Toto as goon and Paladin as traitor.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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And I still don't think the Mick wagon comp was good. There's scum there. Guaranteed.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I think Thor does that on Von regardless. And Trans saying "Desp is scum" means nothing if he's essentially toothless.
P-edit: Toto, I've suspected for awhile that you're the goon in A. Your posturing means nothing.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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You mimic my countdown from d2, yet you base it around an action that will never happen, and it's a threat that is more likely to drive people from the thread. In essence, it accomplishes nothing when it comes to finding scum, but does everything to encourage players to stay away from the thread for a few days, which in this case, is enough for major crap to happen. Then you make an empty threat, given that you would be incapable of acting within your own group. Again, it's an empty action that looks like you're doing something, but is, in fact, meaningless.
And then there's the attacking of reasoning yesterday, which can be summed up as fear of the noose.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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And the attacks from Toto followed soon after this. Guess who's scared?In post 2826, Bulbazak wrote:
Those on the B wagon at any point d2: Transcend, Ramicus, Desperado, Creature, Momo, Eddie Fenix, TotoIn post 1789, Surreptitious wrote: ConManMick (8): Toto, Transcend, Assemblerotws, Ginngie, Elliberetta, InactionDan, Ramcius, checkersman7 [Lynch!]
Those on both wagons: {Transcend, Ramicus, Toto}
I'm willing to give Transcend some leeway, because it really did look like he had no idea about the alternate scum wincon, and he got off the B wagon really quickly. Ramicus, however, does not get this. He held firm until it became uncomfortable for him to do so during his interaction with Checkers on the subject. This is especially egregious, given that Ramicus was in the first Surreptitious game, and the scum wincons were the exact same there.
So if we leave Transcend off, that leaves us with: {Ramicus, Toto}
Going to do that one bit of analysis for Majiffy next and then run comparisons.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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If you are town who really thinks that only scum are on a wagon and no town, then I have some coastal property to sell you in Arizona.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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And here's another reason why you're scum: You're intentionally ignoring circumstances and reasons for each of those votes and just using a blind VC to paint everyone on the wagon as scum and WK Ram. However, you won't give any other reasons why Majiffy is scum. You're ignoring that Eddie had pretty much checked out and just sheeped me (that slot is still probably scum, but it's not due to this weak VC). And you're avoiding the whole part where I voted Desp and hard pushed him into oblivion, where as scum I had an easy opportunity to just lynch Ram and call it a day.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I mean, I originally thought you were partners with Ram, but I'm really not thinking that's the case now.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Von is a policy lynch, and if you want to lynch him because of that, fine. But admit that's what you're doing, and don't try to fake a scumread or fake some reason that he's scum (like trying to tie his school schedule to his alignment. Wtf, Elli.). In a game where each group is a micro, I'd rather vote a scumread and not a lurker.
And Majiffy has provided plenty of reads and reasoning if you stop and actually pay attention. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make him scum. And I hold by my "only one of Thor/Majiffy" theory.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I actually think one or both of Thor's partners may have gone after Majiffy to the exclusion of Thor. More than likely the partner in C did. I can't remember anyone in A doing that.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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This is stupid, but I think it's a town stupid. Thor went with the safe play. Majiffy went with the "We got 'em on the ropes boys!" play. And while I disagree with the logic here, I can see how a town Majiffy thinks this is the case.In post 3981, Majiffy wrote:Anyway the real story here is the fact that two counterwagons cropped up against the Ramci wagon and since the red flip was traitor that means we really should just be lynching Ramci today.
VOTE: C
P-edit: I'm reevaluating what I think I know after the Thor reveal, and I suggest everyone does the same. Von seems to be scumread because it's easy, not because of anything related to Thor. And those trying to say their read is related to Thor have been revealed to be full of crap.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Here, I'll make it easier: If Von is town, what does that reveal about the goons? If Von is scum, what does that reveal about the goon in A?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Bonus question: Do these teams make sense given the night kills?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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It's a really farfetched assumption when you really stop and think about it, but it makes sense from a player, like Majiffy, who is caught up in a tunnel. Desp and Von being counterwagons to Ram is kinda silly, especially since Desp was scum. But it's not an argument I expect scum to make, because scum are less likely to get caught up in the tunnel as town are. And I'm not calling Majiffy a stupid player. I'm saying that it makes sense for Majiffy as town to get so caught up in his push for Ram that he doesn't realize that his wagon line of thought doesn't make much sense.In post 4546, Toto wrote:1. Why is that stupid and more importantly 2. why do you assume Majiffy is a stupid player.
Only one? Do you think Thor by himself is driving the scum team? And if so, what does that say about the rest of the goons? Who are you looking for in that case? And if he's not solely driving the scum team, then you should be looking for someone else of a like mindset in either A or C, if not both. Who are likely scum in that scenario?In post 4547, Toto wrote:RE: nightkils both shots have hit PRs so my guess would be scum were shooting at PRs. Rach was more obvious IMO of the two. I'm not sure what that tells me about the scum team other than they had a competent player among the goons (hi thor)Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Merry Christmas everyone! I worked last night, and I'm working this morning, so consider yourselves blessed.
Then you haven't been reading. Majiffy's actually given a lot, reads included. The problem is that everyone pushing Majiffy handwaves it as noise and continues right along.In post 4549, Toto wrote:Or... majiffy is scum and has no reads and is pretending to be tunneling Ram because it fits his agenda. There are no reads outside Ram that I actually remember from him.
My whole point is to shine a light on these "easy" reads players are batting about. If town, I want to force them to think about their reads critically now that we have a goon and see if the reads really hold up. If scum, I want to apply so much pressure to the arguments that they fall apart and show the scumbutt for who they really are. This really shouldn't be that hard.In post 4549, Toto wrote: I dont understand your second paragraph. I never said there had to be only one competent player in the goons. But you only need one to ‘explain’ the night actions. Im not a big fan of nka in any case: Only scum knows why they shot who they did, and that includes irrational and stupid reasons.
And for the record, I do think that the Rach kill was not related to her being a PR, but incredibly obvious town. It's the Rauth kill I'm looking at. With Thor, it makes a little sense that Rauth was probably an off kill to avoid killing Majiffy for Thor reasons. That also tells me who can't be goons with Thor, because I know of a few players who, if scum, would have wanted to kill Majiffy. What this doesn't tell me is 1.) Why Rauth and not someone else, like LUV, who was more townread? and 2.) Is Thor the one driving the scum team, or did he just make a suggestion along the lines of leaving Majiffy alive? If we were to assume Thor's activity in the PT has been consistent with his activity in the game, then it becomes harder to swallow that he's the scum team's guiding force, which makes the Von scum reads even harder to swallow, and it suggests there's at least one other goon who is actually the one calling the shots. Majiffy was heavily scum read and pushed d1, so it definitely makes sense that he wasn't the NK, but again, why Rauth? Either a.) they figured out Rauth was a PR, in which case you need to be looking for players who are able to put that together easily or b.) they were intimidated by Rauth as a player.
Given the guilty on Thor, it's not too much to ask how goon reads factor in with this information in mind. If the read can't stand up to the simple scrutiny of "How does this work with them in a team with Thor?", then we need to be suspicious if they refuse to give up or engage on the read. This is especially true for players making a big deal about "Scumz have killed all the PRs! OMG!". If they're not factoring that into their goon reads, then there's a problem.
And finally, don't think that I haven't noticed that you focused on the least important part of my whole argument and means of discussion by focusing on the subject of what the nks say about the team. This was actually the context of that question, and it was the last in a series of questions meant to provoke critical thinking on the Von reads being bandied about:
In post 4544, Bulbazak wrote:Here, I'll make it easier: If Von is town, what does that reveal about the goons? If Von is scum, what does that reveal about the goon in A?In post 4545, Bulbazak wrote:Bonus question: Do these teams make sense given the night kills?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Paladin as traitor makes sense. I really didn't like Eddie's easy townreads of Thor or Majiffy. I've played with them before, and even I couldn't develop reads on them that quickly. It felt like kissing up. Also, I think Eddie would try to get Majiffy shot 100% of the time.
P-edit: Ginngie is town Creature. Just stop.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Hey Creature. I lynched obv. scum Desperado over Ram. You've been scum with me, so you know how cautious I am. Stop it.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Eddie doesn't make sense as a goon. I'm telling you, it's Toto.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I'm going to look over that Transcend iso now.
P-edit: I know him enough to know that he would advocate enough against that kill. And I don't think he buddies up in that manner to Thor if Thor is on his team.
@Ram: How so?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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The only thing I dislike from Elli is trying to tie school schedules to alignment. Regardless of Von's actual alignment, rl circumstances would have nothing to do with why he was lurking. Putting effort into something so inconsequential, yet ignoring all the meta evidence that pointed to Desp-scum, even though Desp and Von were essentially doing the same thing is suspect. However, I think Elli is likely town here, and I only have her as scum in my paranoid "darkest timeline" theory. That would involve Chess being the goon in C, and, again, I don't think that's likely.In post 4567, Ramcius wrote:Because how hard he pushed him and he couldn't push me, because Thor was doing it, both goons on same ML wouldn't be good, also, from what i gathered, Eli was responsible for Mick too? I just saw Eli saying he have no regrets for lurker PL (Mick) and pursuing another lurker PL in Von
I don't think Eddie would go along with the Rauth kill.In post 4568, Creature wrote:
Rach kill? Even if he suspects she's PR? Also, wasn't he replaced before scumteam could submit the kill?In post 4566, Bulbazak wrote:I know him enough to know that he would advocate enough against that kill.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Is anyone suggesting not lynching goons?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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@Ginngie: Talk me through your Transcend read.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!