Enigma Mi Game Thread : Game Over

[neko2086]

/confirm

[neko2086]

vote: Beep Beep

for the OMGUS vote, and also because early bandwagons are fun.

[neko2086]

Was that random, or not so much?

Guardian, if you like early wagons so much, why aren't you on the Beep Beep wagon?

[neko2086]

O RLY?

Beep Beep appears to identify as a woman, fyi

And, was that serious or sarcastic? If you're serious, that's quite a gamble to be taking. Sure, the odds aren't that great, but I wouldn't throw out the possibility entirely. Of course, there's nothing to say that she is scum at the moment, either.

[neko2086]

That last post of mine was in response to Guardian, btw.

Scot, you didn't really answer Guardian. He wanted to know if you had any better ideas on how to get things going, rather than just criticizing others' attempts to do so. After your last post, I'd really like a response from you concerning that.

[neko2086]

The chance he catches scum with that are slim to none in my mind.

Right, but I highly doubt he means to bandwagon Yos out of existence, just as I don't mean to bandwagon Beep Beep all the way to a lynch without any sort of evidence. Early bandwagons are just a means of starting discussion. People's reactions can be more telling than the bandwagons themselves.

[neko2086]

That doesn't really explain why you're voting for me, if your vote was meant to be serious.

[neko2086]

THIS GAME NEEDS MORE POSTING!

CPE's own contribution thus far:[quote="CPE]
HI!!!! Vote Scot
[/quote]

Just sayin'

I agree though. I don't think everyone has checked in yet aside from the confirmations. Just because this is a large game doesn't mean we won't notice lurkers

[neko2086]

How many votes does it take to lynch? Quite a few I suppose.

unvote; vote: scotmany12

The town should be making an attempt to be proactive. Have you ever been to a meeting where there's that one guy that shoots down everyone's ideas but doesn't come up with any solutions? Don't be that guy.

As far as disclosing roles. I think it might be entertaining, but I'm not sure it would do anything but distract us.

Do not use the flavor to form conclusions about players; you will most likely be wrong.

Any attempt to do so would not be helpful at all.

Also, happy bday Franky Peanuts!

[neko2086]

Um, it's an 18 player game... it's going to take more than 5 votes, which is what I put it at, I believe. I'd assume it takes 9 or 10.

[neko2086]

Holy flurry of activity, batman!

Um, I have quite a few concerns...

First, I said this not long ago,

How many votes does it take to lynch? Quite a few I suppose.

As far as disclosing roles. I think it might be entertaining, but I'm not sure it would do anything but distract us.

Do not use the flavor to form conclusions about players; you will most likely be wrong.

Any attempt to do so would not be helpful at all.

and I immediately became suspicious as yos started bringing this stuff up, but then scot said

Well I don't know why it says I killed Marissa Walch

Either this is an oversight on the part of Skruffs, or this may actually be an instance in which the flavor becomes more than decoration. And, assuming that yos' roleclaim, whatever it is, is legit (the only way it can't be is if scot and yos are scumpartners and planned this all out), we have to assume that his having a night choice would lead to something useful.

Not sure what to make of this quite yet, really, but I don't think I'm going to move my vote (can we get a

votecount

btw?). Not yet anyway.

Although, this made me incredibly uneasy:

I'm already voting scotmany12, dang it, I can't vote for him

twice

.

emphasis mine
Then, after 2 other people unvoted

This has gotten interesting.

unvote

That is quite the backpedal. Yos called out the three who unvoted right away, and Beep responds with

Because with the role he's got, he's a prime candidate for being set up and take the blame for the kill,

In case you're not aware, I believe that is the nature of the game. Let me remind you of something:

EVERYONE has a secret

Straight from post 1. Everyone here, from what I understand, has something in their role flavor that could be potentially incriminating. That should not be the basis for forming any sort of conclusions.

Yos may very well be mislead, but I would be surprised if he had a

night choice

that would intentionally mislead him, unless of course there is a sanity issue.

Now, I think I'm comfortable with my vote where it is at the moment. I have more reason to believe yos than scot. That said, I do

not

support a quicklynch. We need to get as much info today as possible. But, I don't think we were in such danger of having a quicklynch that three people needed to disband. One of them is possibly scum worried about staying on what started as a discussion-starter wagon, and Beep Beep has the least clear reasons for jumping off the wagon out of the three.

FOS Beep Beep

[neko2086]

Undo, I think you're not getting a very key point here, so let me repeat it:

Role information and

investigation

information are two very very different things. We should not base our scumhunts on role information, you're right there. But Yos is talking about an investigation that is pointing to scot being scum. Unless there are sanity issues, or unless skruffs is a bastardmod, he's not going to fuck with investigations. Let's keep those two things clear in our minds when making these decisions.

Thus, I don't think it would be very wise for anyone with Role information tying into this to bring it up. I think that is getting us into dangerous territory. If you think it helps the investigation, though, well, use your own judgment.

[neko2086]

Hm. If by saying his judgement is misconstrued, are you then arguing that he does indeed have a sanity issue? I'm assuming that since he has the power to make an investigation, the results should play an important role to the game, not just for flavor. In your past games, mafia may not have been covering up kills in flavor, but that doesn't have to be the case here, especially when everybody is supposed to have a secret (obviously that means that town can be responsible for deaths as well, but it also means that scum can be responsible for deaths while covering them up).

Now, I'm really not convinced about the sanity of our investigator. At the moment, I think the case against his claim being valid is weak, so I'm willing to believe it. Whether we want to test his sanity or not is another question, but I'm not sure there is a good reason not to. Scot, do you have any inclinations as to whom the correct lynchee might be if it's not you?

[neko2086]

Again, I'm not sure that releasing role information is a good idea unless you have a very good reason for needing to know. It doesn't seem like it would get us anywhere but confused.

On the other hand, we are dealing with something very specific here. Causing confusion would not be helpful right now. Why do you feel you need to know if somebody has this name that was in your role? What would we gain?

[neko2086]

Yos had a night choice. He made an investigation. His investigation revealed information about you, specifically.

Are you then arguing that Skruffs is giving people night actions that lead absolutely nowhere? That to me seems like bastardmodding, and Skruffs claims not to be a bastardmod.

What do you suppose Yos is supposed to gather about the information he gained based on his investigation?

[neko2086]

I don't agree with that part at all. We each received a pm with information about other players that, at face value, look scummy, whether it's murder or anything else that looks bad. These should most likely be disregarded. Yos, however, is claiming an investigatory role in which he received information

other than what was in his pm

that specifically mentioned scot.

That is a

huge

difference, and I think the distinction has got to be made in order to avoid further confusion. I'm beginning to think that some people here are deliberately trying to cause confusion with the game setup.

Of course, the further we get along in the game, the better we'll understand the significance/insignificance of our role PMs, but we should expect an investigatory role to be quite significant.

[neko2086]

Then I'll ask my last question again: What do you suppose Yos is supposed to gather about the information he gained based on his investigation?

If it is not a cop investigation, what kind of investigation is it? Of course, I have to wonder why he didn't get a result saying that you're specifically scum, but I think that it's really up to the mod's discretion how information is released, whether it's specifically laid out or hinted at with flavor and plot and whatnot.

I really don't see any alternative to Yos' conclusion. If you or anyone else can think of a plausible one, we absolutely need to hear it, but I can't think of one. He had a night choice. He got a result. It has to mean something.

Actually, I have a question for Yos. Is it possible that your result would point to Scot having a killing role that is not necessarily scum-aligned? Like a vig or something? I don't know why a vig would kill a NPC, but considering the bizarre nature of the game, it may be a possibility.

[neko2086]

Scot, you keep ignoring my questions.

You now appear to be arguing that Yos' night actions, are in fact pointless. Yos has been given a role in which he can make investigations, but the results he receives are pointless. Is this assertion correct? If not (and this will be the third time I've asked you this), what do you suppose Yos is supposed to gather about the information he gained based on his investigation?

You didn't answer this either: If it is not a cop investigation, what kind of investigation is it?

[neko2086]

I suppose there's one other possibility...

Yos, you said you had a few different choices, right? Were they all related to the NPCs that died last night?

[neko2086]

Hm. Well, I don't suppose you can know for sure that the other choices you had were other NPCs or people that are actually in the game, but I think there is a slight possibility you have a role in which you have some choices that lead to useful information, and some choices that don't. It's a very slight possibility. If that were the case though, I don't know why you would have gotten scot (or anybody's name) specifically mentioned. That still seems like bastardmodding to me, but maybe it's not. I'm not really sure what the limits of bastardmodding are, so if any of the more experienced players would like to comment on this, perhaps we can come to some sort of conclusion.

So far, I'm having a really hard time believing that Yos would have a role that gets him useless information. I think it has to mean something.

Also, where is everyone?

Mod, prod Bird, Creampuffeater, Frankypeanuts, pianogwen

please as they have not posted for a week or more. Beep Beep, Goat, and Mike OMalley haven't posted in awhile either. Did I miss anybody?

Seriously, people, lurking is not helpful. Lurking makes me angry, and I will notice if it is abused.

[neko2086]

First,

unvote

. This is a bit more complicated now. I'm going to try to summarize what we know. Please please please correct me if anything here is wrong. I think we need to get this all straightened out...

We know for sure that Marissa Walch died after her car ran off the road and hit a tree.

Yos (Tim Johnson) claims that his investigation says nothing about being run off the road, rather that his father (Baxter) "killed" her.

Tim doesn't like his father much.

Skitzer (auto mechanic) sabotages cars.

Baxter Johnson had his car fixed by the auto mechanic.


As far as I can see, the rest is speculation, yes? Or did I miss something?

Yos, do you know

how

your father killed Marissa?

Beep Beep, do you think scot is more likely town or scum at this point?

[neko2086]

Sorry to hear about your grandpa, Gwen. Nobody will blame you for taking care of RL, so no need to apologize. Good luck with everything.


When I read Skruff's post, it sounds to me like Marissa was very clearly killed by the car accident. It is specifically "the car accident [that] has claimed the life of Marissa"

This is worrying me, but I doubt Yos is lying. If he were, he'd come up with something that works with the mod pm (I'd think, at least). I also doubt that the mod screwed up his flavor. As complicated as it is, I assume he thought it out very well and carefully. There must be some way to reconcile these two facts.

So Yos, you saw Baxter strike her on the head, thus killing her, or knocking her unconscious, or do you know for sure? What did you see Baxter do after he struck Marissa? Did you see him put her in a car? Run away?

[neko2086]

So you'd like to lynch scot regardless of his alignment? We do need to know his alignment, and lynching him would be one way to figure that out, but I think we can keep the discussion going and try to figure things out that way. Scot hasn't really been able to account for Yos' results very well, but now it appears that Yos' story isn't really lining up right either.

We should try to piece as much of the story together as we can, but I'm also thinking that for today's lynch, we might be better off basing it off of play and not storyline. Obviously we have less information now than we will later, and I imagine Skruffs designed it to be very confusing and misleading at the beginning. Originally I had thought Yos' information might be able to break through that, and I still think the information he gathered will be important, but I'm not sure if we can know exactly

what

importance it has right now or what it means.

Also, welcome Greasy Spot. Looking forward to some fresh insight.

[neko2086]

well I might as well go ahead and claim now that you've figured it out.

I am John Lennon. I live in an idealistic world in which there are no scum. I make investigations at night that always come up innocent. I also have a mason role, my partner being Yoko Ono. We can discuss peace and stuff at night. We win when the town and scum reconcile their differences and live together in a utopian society.

[neko2086]

Was a joke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagine_%28song%29
Don't worry bout it.

As long as you're here though, Guardian, earlier you said you'd be going back to see whom you might vote for if this whole Scot/Yos story hadn't come up. Have you come up with anything, and would you agree with me that it might be best to ignore the storyline when voting today?

[neko2086]

Guardian, the problem with the Scot situation is that we have two

incomplete

sides of a complicated story. I've stated this before, but I don't think we can make a lynch today solely based on this information. Scum-hunting should be the source of today's lynch, and if we get a sufficient amount of information tomorrow, then we can discuss it.

Mike hasn't been helpful yet, true, but he hasn't really done anything particularly scummy as far as I can see.

Beep Beep, I can see somewhat due to her willingness to "sacrifice" Scot when we have ample time to discuss the situation.

I am still less than impressed by Creampuffeater's involvement in the game, but, as Guardian said, it becomes difficult to scumhunt when everyone's not here. Have we found a replacement for pianogwen, for instance?

Scot, what is it about Beep Beep and Mike that lead you to think they might be good lynch candidates?

[neko2086]

Rosso, can you elaborate on what you're happy about? We haven't actually gotten much contribution from you so far.

Are you referring to this:

yeah, id HAMMAH!

after Yos' vote on pg 5?

Your thoughts on the game would be appreciated now that you're back.

[neko2086]

Meta on Mike: Read Worse Idea Mafia please. You can read the whole game in 3 minutes. He basically lurked his way to victory. Now, I'm not complaining, because he was, after all, my scumbuddy.

Therefore I'm particularly well placed to notice his lurkstrategy.

vote: Mike O'Malley

- I'm on to you, Mike.

I did read it when it was going on since it was a fascinating and bizarre set-up, but that's the problem with that meta. It's such a different set-up, I'm not sure his behavior in that game is in any way telling of his usual playstyle. That is the only other game he's ever played, though, so there is no counterexample to say that you're wrong. He is lurking something fierce right now, so focusing on his play in this particular game, I would be inclined to agree with you.

i really just feel like focussing on yossy's claim. even if he were to abandon it i wont, it seems solid. ill get a better read once scotty is forced to claim. kthx.

To me, it seems to be lacking some significant details. We do not know for sure what role Baxter(scot) played in the death of Marissa. We know he struck her on the head, and we know her car ran into a tree and she died while heavily intoxicated. There is a

significant

piece of information linking those two events that we are lacking. Until we get more information, all we can do is speculate, and at this stage of the game, I think it's incredibly dangerous to do so. If you disagree, please explain why.

[neko2086]

Well, considering the options, I certainly favor a Mike lynch over a scot lynch at this point. We do not have enough info on either scot or yos to say that either is scum based on flavor. Based on gameplay, Mike is a much better lynch candidate. If he would like to contribute to this game and be helpful, I may reconsider.

vote: Mike O Malley

Btw, sorry Greasy! I forgot you were her replacement.

[neko2086]

I'm not David, but I'm curious to know how you know this guy is scum, considering the discussion we've had around the role of our role pm's.

[neko2086]

killa seven, why on earth are you bringing this up after we have already

thoroughly

discussed the dangers of going solely by role PMs. Have you read the game? Please try to avoid making assumptions based off of your role PM, and go by the gameplay.

FOS: k7 and Jester

for distracting the town. Greasy Spot, you've entertained it a little, too, but I think you might have been trying to get some real evidence (asking if he's claiming something, etc.), but I think it's clear that there is none. Guardian, we should stimulate

good and productive

discussion.

Mike, it would be in your best interest to contribute to discussion.

[neko2086]

Wow, I completely misread your post. It looked like you were starting to engage in a ridiculously unnecessary discussion. Disregard my FOS on you.

K7 on the other hand, still deserves one.

OMGUS-much?

???
I don't remember you ever voting for me or FOSing me or anything similar

[neko2086]

I have a feeling either of these Women would provide enough info to finish the Scot/Yos debate.

This early in the game, do you think either of them could clear up the debate simply by their role PMs?

Furthermore, I don't want anybody BUT these two to claim, anybody else would be pointless and probably better for Scum than Town.

Look at Killa's speculation for reasons.

Skruffs said we would probably be wrong, not that we are. Big distinction.

So are we going to pick and choose who to believe? Again, I highly recommend we wait to get more info from deaths and night actions (though I would also recommend that these people refrain from claiming their abilities unless absolutely necessary).

[neko2086]

Imat, I agree with the assumptions made except for the fourth. You're still not making the distinction between the flavor and the roles. Yos got information, and it's got to mean

something

.

That said, I am not 100% comfortable with the interpretation of that information. I think Yos ought to have waited to get more information, as I'm not sure we have the

entire

story. Remember a few pages ago we had a discussion trying to pinpoint exactly what everyone

knew

, and I have yet to see anything conclusive. We've seen lots of speculation from both sides of this argument, but nothing certain, leaving me to believe that Yos does have a vital piece of information, but in what way, I'm not sure.

I would much rather lynch on the basis of gameplay. This mess has allowed Mike, CPE, and others to lurk like crazy because only a few people here are actually paying attention to anything else.

Now, I think Guardian does have a very good point--scot hasn't really done any scumhunting himself. He's popped in to defend himself, but nothing else. I understand that RL can mess things up, but honestly if it's that bad, you ought to be replaced. So, if it came down to it, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a scot-lynch. I don't think Yos' information is entirely conclusive, but I don't think scot has played all that pro-town either. Imat, if you have a case to prove otherwise, now would be the time to present it. I would like to see your cases on Undo and Guardian as well.

[neko2086]

k7, can you explain your vote? It seems to me that people are voting him for a few different reasons and I'd like to know which one is yours.

[neko2086]

Norinel, that's all very clear to me, but what I'm not sure about yet is how, exactly, we are supposed to interpret Yos' results. I think it's important, but I think that it's inconclusive. It sounds to me like you're more inclined to believe Yos in that based on what he's seen, Scot must be scum, is that right? Please clarify your position on this.

There are a few people on the scot-wagon that bother me--
k7, for not explaining his vote and for bringing up pure flavor after having thoroughly discussed the dangers of doing so
GreasySpot, for slightly entertaining k7's distraction but more importantly for his recent post, in which he says he thinks Yos' slow reveal of his role made him believe he was lying, but will "give him the benefit of the doubt" for now and vote scot, presenting what looks to me like a false dichotomy (a killer can't be pro-town).
Mike O'Malley, who actually isn't on the scot-wagon anymore, but he was, and his lurking just irritates me to no end. He should either participate or be replaced.

That said, I need to hear from each of them. K7, there's a question you haven't answered yet. GS, please clarify who, at this point in time, you believe, and to what extent. Mike, any thoughts on the game would be appreciated.

unvote

in the meantime.

[neko2086]

Considering putting my vote back on Mike. His reappearance is not very impressive. Starts with a hypocritical attack on Greasy, and continues to respond to criticism with sarcasm.

Also considering putting my vote back on Scot. It does seem strange that he wouldn't have been informed of his actions. I'm still worried that we don't have all the info we need.

I don't think there's a viable third alternative at this point, though. I think we'll have to make a decision between these two, but first, it'd be nice to hear from everyone. Several people need prods, I think.

[neko2086]

@ Rosso: Please see Yos' comment below

if you're the only person voting for someone, you are making it harder for the town to lynch at this point because you're increasing the number of "active" votes. If you're really convinced your vote is right, then you need to make a case for it; otherwise, you need to at least unvote that person, otherwise all you're doing is increasing the odds of a no-lynch.

why are you wasting your vote? Please convince us we need a beep wagon, or disband.

[neko2086]

Actually, scot needs 2 votes for a proper lynch.

vote: Mike O

. If the Mike wagon doesn't pull more votes w/in ~24 hrs, I'll vote scot to prevent a no-lynch, but I think we can get one of these two to a proper lynch if people get off their stale votes, like Imat.

FOS: Imat

. It appears that you'd rather have a no-lynch than a scot-lynch. There is obviously not going to be a sudden Undo-wagon, and since you aren't trying to pull for one, your vote is stale and useless. Mike is the only plausible second choice for today.

Undo is at least trying to pull for a Jester-wagon, which is probably hopeless at this point, but it's an honest attempt and it should be considered tomorrow.

GS should also pick a side. We can look at him and CKD and their exchange tomorrow.

[neko2086]

Yes Beep, it appears that Yosarian has won. But, the game is still going, so there will be other winners (unless something weird happens where everyone loses, which has happened before, I believe).

Jester, I would assume that Yos pretty much lied his way to scot's lynch, which is all he needed. He must have been told scot's name, and it's possible he really was told the bit about her being struck over the head, but I don't think it matters at this point. Please do not further confuse flavor with info.

Per Undo's request, I think I'll be keeping Jester's actions in mind during rereads.

I think we need to take another serious look at Mike, but in the meantime, it would be nice to hear something from him.

I need to do more rereading. Afterwards, I'll have more specific thoughts and questions.

[neko2086]

According to the wiki (too lazy to link to it, go look it up), a lyncher is a 3rd-party player, neither pro- nor anti-town. He was playing only for himself. His departure is in line with this role.

[neko2086]

So let's just not pressure Mike at all?

vote: Mike

I would also be favorable of a rosso lynch atm, but Mike needs attention, too.

Skitzer, I think it's interesting you're pointing out Beep's following of Guardian, while you are pretty much following Beep. Beep votes mike, you vote mike. Beep unvotes, you unvote.

I am getting extremely irritated with people confusing flavor and info. I think I just, no less than 2 pages ago, tried to clarify it one more time.

FOS: Jester and CKD

Imat, if you don't think Yos was a lyncher, what do you believe his role is, since you don't seem to like the lyncher-theory?

[neko2086]

Sure there's evidence of a Yos Lyncher, but theres also evidence of other roles for Yos.

Please don't ignore my question. What are those other possible roles? Also, what evidence is there for them?

[neko2086]

I really wish you would just read the wiki, but whatever.

The Lyncher is a third-party role whose win condition is to get a specific townie (the Lynchee) lynched. If the Lynchee is lynched while the Lyncher is alive, the latter wins.

If the Lyncher dies first, he loses. If the Lynchee is nightkilled, typically the Lyncher assumes the pro-Town win condition.

If a Lynchee is lynched before any other faction has won, the game generally continues to determine other winners, although in very small games, the game is generally over.

If the game does continue, the lyncher exits the game with an independent victory.

There could be other possibilities, but this is clearly in line with what happened. I don't see why you're getting so upset about this. Yos wanted Scot lynched. He said he was sure scot was scum. This was obviously not true. We don't know if he lied or not, but we know the story he presented was incomplete, but he pushed it until scot got lynched. He left town.

The idea of him being a commuter is interesting, but the wiki doesn't say anything about actually leaving town, just immunity. Since you're familiar with this role, can you link to a game that has contained it?


CKD,

I am pissed that we lynched someone based on flavor after the mod told us not to.

It's unfair to say that everyone on his wagon was there because of "flavor." Yos allegedly had info (which may or may not be true), which put scot in a compromising position. I don't think it was enough for a lynch, as his info seemed incomplete and inconsistent, but I don't think it was entirely meaningless (in other words, not just flavor).

[neko2086]

ckd, I would 100% agree with you, except for the fact that Yos received scot's name specifically. I doubt the mod deals out people's names to each other purely for flavor. It seemed to me that Yos' info meant something, but I wasn't convinced it meant he was scum.

Here's something interesting:

I dont like the scot lynch, but I cant say that I am completely opposed to it..

Can you please explain why you weren't completely opposed to it? You seem to be trying to give us the impression that we're all idiots for letting scot get lynched, when you did little to discourage it.

[neko2086]

I got the information that you, scotmany, were Baxter Johnson, that you killed her, and it strongly implied that you were a bad guy.

Also, we do not know that the three dead people at the beginning are there purely for flavor.


Mike, are you around? It would be great to hear from you.

[neko2086]

Imat, you keep bringing up discussions that have little to do with the task at hand (finding scum). If you think Rosso is scum, I hope you have something better than unrelated meta facts to support your case. If you don't think Rosso is scum, it would then appear that you are having a useless argument with him.

mod

: can we get prods on killa seven and Mike O, who haven't bothered to show up at all yet today? Thank you.

[neko2086]

So let's not discuss a confusing situation?

fos: skitzer

Also, lurkers should not be rewarded in any way. Obviously having an early wagon on him (Mike) is not putting enough pressure on him. He might be better off replaced, actually, but until something happens with him, completely ignoring him is a bad idea.

I have to admit that the case on Rosso is stronger, though I'd like to look into Mike more.

It might also be beneficial to look into K7. I think he may have been more intentionally useless in this game than Mike, but I'll have to reread more.

[neko2086]

unvote

, but I'll have to keep in mind that you're mike's replacement. Hopefully, you'll be able to contribute more than mike did.

The rosso case seems very valid, and I'll consider moving my vote. There's no need to hurry though. As an alternative, I may make a case for a K7-lynch. It might not happen today, but I think it could be considered tomorrow.

I might not have access this weekend, as I'll be out of town, but when I get back I'll hopefully be able to devote more time to this game.

[neko2086]

I don't know what the possibility is for another lynch alternative at this point, but I'd like to present for your consideration the following. This is Killa Seven's entire contribution to this game, over the span of about 20 pages since he replaced in:

im here

im tryna get a grasp on this game, this game is seriously comfusing.. ive been reading the events of scot and he seems pretty guilty seeing as he was spotted killing someone and hes tryna say killing and murder are 2 different things.

im not talkin about whats goin on im talking about the scenarious and story line thing is realy confusing... i replaced in becuase tar couldnt figure it out.. so yes it is difficult

who is David Alderton?

who is David Alderton?

Is this in your Role PM? What connection are they to your role?

yes its in my role, that guy is scum.

my role told me hes a drug dealer im not comfortable explaing what my role is yet to early in this game.

no im not a cop, i was snooping through his mail and hes getting drugs from mexico and cuba, thats all it tells me it doesnt say which player is him, i figured id ask and someone would slip up and say yea im david.

killa seven, why on earth are you bringing this up after we have already

thoroughly

discussed the dangers of going solely by role PMs. Have you read the game? Please try to avoid making assumptions based off of your role PM, and go by the gameplay.

FOS: k7 and Jester

for distracting the town. Greasy Spot, you've entertained it a little, too, but I think you might have been trying to get some real evidence (asking if he's claiming something, etc.), but I think it's clear that there is none. Guardian, we should stimulate

good and productive

discussion.

Mike, it would be in your best interest to contribute to discussion.

um probably cuz i replaced in?

vote scotmany

im pretty happy with my vote

why are we wanting 2 lynch mike

Of note:
- Makes inquiries based on initial pm role flavor, which we had just got done thoroughly discussing that pm role flavor should not be confused with investigation results.
- vote on scotmany w/ absolutely no reasoning provided
- no attempt to contribute to the game whatsoever. like, at all.

K7, your thoughts would be much appreciated.

[neko2086]

Also forgot to mention, but Porochaz, skitzer was wondering if the dead cat is a reference to himself or Rosso. Or, perhaps, both.

[neko2086]

I understand the metaphor. I am wondering if it is applying to Rosso or Skitzer. You originally said "He has posted about as much content as a dead cat." Does the 'he' refer to Rosso, skitzer, or both.

[neko2086]

go-go bandwagon!

vote: killa seven

Seriously, if you're going to make a claim, there's no sense in hiding anything. In the case that your claim is believable and sounds pro-townish, I'll likely remove this vote, but at the moment it sounds like a poor attempt to deflect attention. Please prove me wrong.

[neko2086]

In the case that your claim is believable and sounds pro-townish, I'll likely remove this vote, but at the moment it sounds like a poor attempt to deflect attention. Please prove me wrong.

[neko2086]

from himself, his complete lack of participation in this game...

[neko2086]

I'm the only one to have paid any attention to him so far. I'd hope my posting a case against him would put some pressure on him. I was hoping for some sort of contribution from him, and instead, he makes a vague claim.

[neko2086]

Hm. Well,

unvote

.

Between Rosso and Skitzer, I'd say Rosso is more intentionally useless than skitzer. This last comment of his is ridiculous. Rosso if you'd like us to go after "real scum," it would help for you to take a part in that in some way.

Do you have anything you'd like to contribute?

[neko2086]

I was hoping to get a response from Rosso. I'll likely vote him if I don't get one, or if I get a shitty one.

[neko2086]

Poro, do you not believe K7's claim, or do you think it's not a pro-town role?

[neko2086]

It just seems a bit convenient...

I would agree except that he kinda alluded to it yesterday when asking who was David Alderton. It makes sense to me. I'm doubting that he made it up, though I suppose it's possible

[neko2086]

Rosso appears to have nothing to contribute to this game. Armlx's main argument is that Rosso is always this scummy. So, do all scumtells become null-tells? Are we never supposed to lynch him? Or, are we supposed to lynch him only when he's being helpful, since that would be out of his character?

I think Guardian presented a perfectly good example in which Rosso was actually trying to be helpful, and he was town.

At this point, I see no reason

not

to lynch Rosso.

vote: Rosso Carne

[neko2086]

I wouldn't be opposed to Beep's suggestion. Armlx seems to be going way out of his way to stay off this wagon.

[neko2086]

You two are obviously not going to agree on Rosso's playstyle.

Armlx, do you not think that Rosso's absence from this game is indicative of his alignment?

Also, would Rosso pretty much have to claim scum for you to ever vote him?

[neko2086]

claim what? does rosso have a role you know about that we don't?

[neko2086]

If cream really is town, vig->ckd

K7, investigate ->Porochaz or armlx

[neko2086]

Dizzy, are you basing your suspicions of K7 on the flavor in your role pm? I mean, you

are

asking for a vig here, as in, you want him dead... so... I hope you have good reasons

Also a comment on killa seven - at least part of his claim is genuine, I think. Whilst we're agreed that the flavour is not entirely reliable, there's an indication that the town mailman is one of the characters we're dealing with him my role PM. Unfortunately for him... it also states that my character suspects he's been stealing money from my mail. I guess the flavour is compatible with his claim, but he could be making a slightly adjusted claim to make himself seem innocent when he's really some kind of scum.

[neko2086]

That is exactly the point I'm trying to make. I'm not sure Dizzy has a valid reason to want K7 dead. She's confirmed the mailman thing, so I don't see any reason not to believe K7 at this point. Or am I missing something?

[neko2086]

^Agreed

it's more that we've already got one outed investigative role

Wait, are you talking about Yos?...

Neko, what is your reason for wanting a dead CKD? Just wondering.

Good question. I suppose I never outlined that. Much of it has to do with his insistence on confusing flavor with info, despite numerous, numerous attempts by myself and others to make a distinct separation between flavor-based votes and info-based votes. Also, if you look back to how today started, he jumped right out of the gate pointing fingers at those on the scot wagon. It seemed to me he was looking for cheap townie cred. At the moment, I'd say CKD is most deserving of the vig. I would not be completely opposed to a poro vig. Then in that case, I’d hope CKD is investigated. Or yourself. Or Dizzy, who replaced a lurker and is suddenly wanting to vig the investigator. So many options.

[neko2086]

I thought you weren't "a fan of CKD killings." Did I not read that right?

[neko2086]

why didnt you vote yesterday, Neko

I voted Mike O, actually. Right after you did, interestingly enough.

I would pick anyone who went along with the "lets lynch based on flavor" yesterday gambit.

We've been over this countless times. Bringing it up again makes you even more vig-worthy, imo.


Dizzy, I see what you're saying. I think it's unlikely, but, in this game, I suppose anything is possible. It's certainly something to keep in mind, but I still don't think it's vig-worthy.

[neko2086]

What are you talking about? I voted Mike O right after you did. Please read p. 20 post 492. Scot was lynched the next page. I didn't unvote.

[neko2086]

I was originally, but after hearing what yos had to say, I felt that his claimed results meant something, but I wasn't entirely convinced it pointed to scot being scum. I did not, however, believe that he was going off of pure flavor, if that's what you're getting at. He claimed to have had a result from a night choice. I just felt more comfortable with a Mike lynch, though I wasn't entirely opposed to scot's lynch and would have joined if necessary to avoid a no-lynch.

[neko2086]

I haven't killed anyone that I know of, but not all the bludgeonings were cops. Not the last one.

No... but, I don't see what you're getting at here. Unless this game is full of cops and vengeful townies, I don't really see any reason not to believe K7...

Actually, wouldn't the obvious course of action be to lynch skitzer and verify K7's alignment? On the other hand, there may be sanity issues, or some other bizzare detail that's being looked over. At any rate, skitzer is already halfway to a lynch, and we can't afford to quicklynch our way through today, so we need to consider every possibility here and not make too many assumptions.

I'm not necessarily condemning armlx's or Beep's votes, mind you, as I'm very likely to vote skitzer eventually, but I

am

assuming we'll be hearing more from you.

What do people think about the possibility that K7 is an anti-town cop of some sort? I think it's unlikely--I've never heard of such a thing, anyway--but maybe it's been done before? Could he just be an insane postal worker? If a cop has sanity issues, are they told about it?

I need to do more rereading as well. Btw, Skruffs, nice flavor

[neko2086]

That's L-2 and not everybody has even checked in yet...

Guardian, K7 believes he got a guilty result on skitzer last night, if you missed that... I do believe that would be why ckd is reluctantly not voting you atm.

[neko2086]

In the case of Yos, I don't think he had any "investigative results" that scot confirmed, whereas here, both Dizzy and skitz have been able to do so. Yos knew some basic info about scot's role, but only him, and k7 seems to be picking up info about several people.

It's a good thought, and I wouldn't say it's impossible, but I think it's improbable.

[neko2086]

If I'm reading K7 right, he's saying that he assumed scum were called "bad citizens," so he thought the drug dealer (aberton/norinel) was probably scum until he saw the word "evil" when he investigated skitzer.

To Dizzy: I'm not saying it confirms his sanity or alignment at all. I think it just confirms that he's not making things up as he goes along, thus he is not likely to be a lyncher.

I'm struggling to find a logical reason for him to not be NKed as a claimed investigative role without him being scum-aligned or them having some kind of knowledge about his sanity that we don't have, especially considering there's already a dead cop, proven to be town aligned.

Again, this conversation will go nowhere but wifom territory, so I don't know what you're trying to accomplish.

The way I see it, there are at least 3 possibilities, but I could very well be missing something, so, please feel free to add/edit if I have:
1. K7 is a sane, pro-town cop-- this would be the second such role in the game
2. K7 is a sane, anti-town cop-- if we do have more than one scum faction, he could be working to find the other faction. That, or he could just be trying to get townies lynched, but I find that unlikely.
3. K7 is an insane, pro-town cop-- this would mean that skitzer is telling the truth and that he would be the third vengeful townie. If K7 is saying that he got an innocent read on Norinel, then this cannot be the case. We could have a random cop, but I highly doubt it.

Now, if we lynch skitzer and he's a townie, we are likely in scenario 3. If we lynch skitzer and he's scum, we're in scenario 1 or 2. Since I think scenarios 1 and 2 are much more likely than scenario 3, I say we lynch skitzer. The only problem is that it won't necessarily clear K7.

So, I would really like feedback on this theory. Have I missed anything? Is there any way skitzer could be telling the truth considering that if k7 has sanity issues, he almost has to be a random cop?

[neko2086]

Neko: Do we know ooba was sane?

No, so I suppose it's possible ooba was an insane cop and k7 is our sane cop?

Killa seven is not scum

What are you basing this off of? I'm inclined to agree looking at the probabilities, but is that what you're looking at, or something else?


Also, k7 is right, dizzy. The vig was successful, and though we didn't necessarily all agree on who the vig should be, there was some good direction

[neko2086]

I think K7 and skitzler are both likely to be town.

Guardian, please read through my thoughts on them and tell me what you disagree with. As far as I can tell, the only way this can be possible is if we have a random cop.

B!B! = DGB. That explains that statement.

Yeah I forgot about that, but I'd still like some actual content... like, feedback on my theory, for example. I mean, if people are going to agree/disagree with me, great, but I'd like to know why...

[neko2086]

Millers! I felt I was missing something, but nothing else made sense.

why would the mod tell you your sane but refuse to tell me thats messed up scruffs

I'm finding it much more likely that k7 is an insane cop and skitzer is then another vengeful miller

I need to reread.

[neko2086]

Wait, maybe it doesn't make sense that k7 would be an insane cop... at any rate, I agree with Guardian that investigative results are best ignored in favor of post analyses.

[neko2086]

Dizzy, why are you willing to believe guardian's claim but not k7's?

[neko2086]

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a Beep-lynch, as she has not contributed much to the game, especially today.

Dizzy would also be a good candidate--replaced an uber-lurker, attempting to stifle vig-votes (which I agree

did

, to some degree, help), entertaining WIFOM discussions.

CKD, I’d like to know what exactly makes you think Guardian is lying. I’ve considered it, but I can’t find anything that would necessarily discredit his claim.

I'd like to hear more from Greasy Spot and Beep. Do you believe the claims, for example?

[neko2086]

BB isn't terrible

isn't a terrible candidate? or isn't terrible, as in, isn't likely scum?

[neko2086]

I've never heard of such a cop strategy, but it does make sense to a certain extent. Is that the only reason you don't believe it, though?


Guardian, if you're so sure that CKD is scum so as to not even bother investigating him, why are you not voting him?

[neko2086]

I investigate those I am unsure of and have no read on. See: investigating Rosso. I looked for a case on him after I got a guiltly, I wasn't very suspicious of him at all before that.

To me, this implied that you

are

sure of CKD's alignment, and are searching those you aren't sure of.


Beep, please elaborate. Your claim is the least convincing so far.

[neko2086]

Fair enough. I thought you were saying you felt an investigation on CKD would be wasted since you were sure he was scum anyway, but apparently not.

What do you think of Beep's claim?

[neko2086]

what if we are all "bad" or "guilty" players? My flavor suggests that I am an asshole of sorts...maybe we are a town of evil bad players looking to lynch a mafia full of "innocent" players?...out of all the fucking investigations that have been claimed..how many of them have been innocent?

just beep's?

wait, are you advocating flavor-based lynches now? Haven't you been accusing everyone else of being scummy for doing this? Also, didn't skruffs say from the beginning that

everyone

has something to hide?

[neko2086]

CKD, guardian, please answer my questions.

CKD, I'd also like to know if you're more inclined to believe Beep's claim than Guardian's.

[neko2086]

Fuck the noise and just vote someone legitimately scummy.

My agreement with this rapidly increases with each twist or "new bit of info" somebody gives us. I'm fully in favor of either a Beep-lynch, given the least believable claim and lack of contribution during this game, or a Dizzy-lynch, given her replacing a major lurker (seriously, who here even

remembers

the goat?), and other reasons I've already stated.

I can't get a good read on CKD. My biggest disagreement with him thus far is what constitutes "flavor." I still don't like the way he harped on it all of D2, but he hasn't done much else, in my opinion, to warrant a vote.

I think I'm leaning toward a Dizzy-lynch, but I do not think we should let Beep or Guardian slide by just because the claims are getting too confusing.

[neko2086]

Well start somewhere, because otherwise your vote is pretty useless.

[neko2086]

To Armlx:

given the least believable claim and lack of contribution during this game

Out of all the claims, I think Beep's is the least convincing. Her involvement in this game has taken a downturn, but looking back, there may be RL issues there. The claim bothers me the most as I'm having a hard time believing all the claims are true, and at the moment I'm more inclined to believe K7's and Guardian's claims.

To Beep:
Out of all the claims, yours seems the most forced.

Why do you want to lynch an information role, no matter how weak the role, it's still valuable info on the setup.

If you do have an information role, great, but we don't know whether or not you're telling the truth, and even if you are, it's unclear what "info" we're getting from you (or anyone else at this point).

why do you even bother bringing up CKD???

To explain why I'm shifting my concentration from him to yourself and Dizzy.

What's special about THAT lurker???

If you have to ask, you're obviously not paying attention. Please reread and you'll find that question has already been answered for you.

For example, take a look at her own stance on the claims. She doesn't believe K7's claim, but when Guardian claims, she says she believes K7's even less! She hasn't even posted since you claimed, so I'd love to hear what she's got to say now.

Because the claims are "confusing" to you, Guardian and myself should be lynched???

"I do not think we should let Beep or Guardian slide by" =/= "Beep and Guardian should be lynched." This was partly in response to armlx's "fuck the noise" post, which I mostly agree with, but I wanted to point out that we shouldn't completely ignore the cop/investigator/whatever-you-want-to-call-yourself claims. I think somebody is lying. I want to lynch you if you're indeed a liar, not just because the claims are confusing.

[neko2086]

Do you think this game has 4 investigative roles, then?

[neko2086]

I now believe that I am looking for a single player, not scum.

If you're something like a psychiatrist, though, going back to CKD's question, why are you getting "innocent" results if you're not looking for innocence or guilt?

[neko2086]

This seems like a terrible plan. The only thing it accomplishes is making you feel less guilty about getting somebody lynched. You're setting yourself up for emotion-based lynches and justifying it afterwards. It appears then, that you are voting ckd simply because you

want

him to be scum, and that you'll eventually justify yourself somehow

[neko2086]

Y'all seem to be skipping step 2 of my plan, which is the most important part.

"figure out if/why they are scum"

Why is that so bad?

The problem is precisely that it is step 2. That should be step one. Putting it at step 2 makes your approach much less subjective. The why then overpowers the if once you've already decided you want somebody to be scum.

[neko2086]

Guardian put forth a strategy for town to use. You find somebody you don't like, you try to decide if/why they're scum (and as I said before, going about it in this order makes your judgment much less objective (not subjective, my error)), then you lynch them.

All I'm saying is that if you're going about lynching the people you find annoying, finding reasons for it afterward will only make you feel a little better about it should you happen to hit a townie. It doesn't make for a strong case though, as your investigation began based on emotion/gut/whateveryouwannacallit. This, in my opinion, is not a good town strategy.

If guardian is scum, he obviously wouldn't feel bad about getting anybody lynched.

[neko2086]

I was speaking

to the plan

more so than to guardian. Supposedly, it is a plan for townies to scum-hunt, and I was trying to demonstrate how dangerous it is

for a townie

to use such a plan. It is

implied

that if guardian is scum in that situation, then he is using a terrible means to justify his actions.

Here, let's go back to my original statement:

This seems like a terrible plan. The only thing it accomplishes is making you feel less guilty about getting somebody lynched. You're setting yourself up for emotion-based lynches and justifying it afterwards. It appears then, that you are voting ckd simply because you want him to be scum, and that you'll eventually justify yourself somehow

Guardian hasn't been really high on my scumdar so far this game. This plan he proposed, though, doesn't accomplish anything if he is town, and that's what I was saying here. I simply didn't expand on my thoughts or clarify what I'll admit was a poorly worded statement. I didn't include the "if he's town" clause, which I can understand how that would seem scummy, but I thought it would be implied. Why would guardian, who generally seems to be a sensible player, choose to use such a logically flawed scum-hunting strategy?

also, CKD is town in this game.

How is this not worse than what I've said, given that I've never expressly said that guardian is town? Beep, how do you know CKD is town?

[neko2086]

CKD I had two questions in my last post that I'd like answered.

[neko2086]

Why would you be discussing Guardian's plan assuming both of us were town. What was the point of that?

Again, I was speaking to the plan more so than to Guardian. It's a bad plan for town to use, and in order to demonstrate why it's a bad plan for town to use, I have

no choice

but to assume guardian and you are town,

for the purpose of an example

, to show what can happen if a townie uses that plan.

I didn't even get a chance to follow up on this now that you've made such a huge deal out of nothing. You've given guardian a perfect opportunity to hide behind your vote. Do you not see that?

because Beep does this in every game. I have stopped listening to her...as does anyone who plays with Beep...

So beep just gets a free pass? What would it take for you to suspect beep, then? And no, this is not "deflecting." It's a valid question that needs to be addressed as you're being very inconsistent in your play here.

[neko2086]

Beep's theory that CKD is a godfather made sense initially, but with the strange results our claimed investigators have gotten, do we even know what kind of result they would get from investigating a godfather?

If CKD were a godfather, why would he be begging to be investigated when the claimed results are all sketchy to begin with?

[neko2086]

limited/no access until 6/27.

In the meantime, CKD, I'm curious to know what you look for in Beep as far as scumtells go. How do you differentiate between "insane Beep" and "scum Beep?"

I'll catch up when I get back.

[neko2086]

I'm back. Will hopefully post more later tonight, but for now--

Hmm, forgot about neko's shenanigans regarding the vengeful kill.

What shenanigans?


As far as K7 and skitzer go, it seems to me that it makes the most sense that skitzer is a vengeful miller, am I wrong? I'm not sure there's a better explanation to reconcile the apparent discrepancy we have here.

Greasy Spot, aren't you back from vacation? I was hoping we would be hearing more from you.

[neko2086]

Prefering CKD to Mike.

I felt I had good reasons. I don't recall being necessarily opposed to a mike vig.

Can you explain said vote please?

second this, especially since GS had said

I don't see how we can use what we hear from the so-called "investigative roles" when they themselves admittedly said don't they don't know how to interpret their results. I don't think we need to trust their comments yet because we don't even know if they are pro-town or not.

K7 is also voting skitzer, but only based on his investigation, which you don't trust. Is your vote solely based on skitzer's porochaz comment? That, unless it was faked like Guardian thought it was, doesn't seem like a scumtell to me.


Jester, Guardian, and Dizzy (possibly due to RL) have been fairly quiet today as well. I can't tell if Guardian is actually lurking or if he is just lost. Seems to be the latter.

[neko2086]

the apparent presence of so many information seeking roles, the general tone of the game, amongst other things

I don't see how any of these point to two scum groups. When you first made this speculation, you only cited the kill patterns, and now you're referencing various vague hints that have supposedly led you to this conclusion.

Also, you're citing "the apparent presence of so many information seeking roles," as a point for your argument, yet you clearly wanted K7 vengeful killed because of his claim. So, you couldn't believe that there were two of these roles, but now you're willing to believe there are as many as four?

To armlx: I think you know I've already agreed with your case. I could go with a Dizzy-lynch today. I'm starting to consider Greasy Spot as a very viable lynch candidate, though, considering his insistance on holding such a weak vote on skitzer.

Also, looking back at Greasy's posts this game, he says this about Mike O:

I know it has been shown that he is an lurker alt but that doesn't mean he is automatically a scum. He has just as much chance as any of the rest of us to be town or scum, it's all random.

which sounds like a warning against a lurker-lynch, but then he says:

The votes on Rosso and shitzer look like good votes. Both seem to be not helping much.

This makes his first comment look more like a defense for Mike.
(side note: "shitzer" makes me lol, even thought it's not very nice...)

And, if you remember, he was particularly worried about hammering Rosso, for fear of being called out on it being called scummy. It seems to me that a townie wouldn't be

that

worried about dropping the hammer on such a scummy player, whereas a scum who knew Rosso would flip town

would

have reason to worry.

Beep still bothers me, but I don't feel there's enough to go on to consider her a candidate today. I'm not entirely sure about Greasy yet, but I think he needs to be considered.

vote: Dizzy Izzy

and

FOS: Greasy Spot

[neko2086]

Ugh, also, fyi I'll have limited access for the next couple weeks, but I should be able to post enough to keep up with the game (posting this in all games).

[neko2086]

Greasy, you see skitzer as the lynch for today when you admit it's a fairly weak case. Meanwhile, other cases have been brought up that may make for better lynch candidates. Armlx asked everyone about dizzy and you've not commented, so what is it about the various points brought up about her that aren't convincing to you?

[neko2086]

you've created a far stronger case against Greasy than you have against me, yet you're voting for me... why?

I don't necessarily feel that the case against greasy is stronger yet. It hasn't really gotten much feedback anyway, so I don't know what weaknesses it may have. That said, what

do

you think about my case against greasy? No doubt you like it better than the case against you, but what do you think about it as opposed to other cases? I don't think we've seen hardly any scumhunting from you lately, which tells me the case against you is still better than the case against GS.

[neko2086]

Can't post much now, but I'll get caught up in a day or two

whats up with neko and skitzler, and the jester? why do I not remember their inputs?

I've been pretty active, so I would wager that you've been ignoring me. I have a case against Greasy Spot that I've been waiting for feedback on that nobody has commented on yet. If it's crap, it'd be nice if somebody said so because he's second on my list atm.

Skitzer hasn't said much at all, so I'd like more input from him as well. Jester is becoming more active. Greasy pops in now and again, but doesn't ever say much.

[neko2086]

post #? I may search for it.

I think your assessment of my assessment of you is fair. I have seen you seeming to scum hunt but haven't been paying that much attention, I said you looked pro-town but couldn't remember why.

1266.

Have I not been paying attention?

[neko2086]

skitzer, sexist =/= scummy

guardian, wtf? If the post number I directed you to doesn't contain anything worth commenting on, fine. But I still have a question I'd like answered (see post 1315).

I'm going to have to reread Jester. He is very uncooperative in post 1329 and afterwards for no apparent reason.

I'm assuming that killa 7 wasn't targetted by scum based on the two distinct kill chains remaining unbroken. Thus, even if he was protected by a Doc, it doesn't explain his survival.

Scum might not kill a claimed cop so that they can throw doubt on their claim, just as you have been doing all day.

Dizzy, which claims do you find most and least believable?

[neko2086]

AJ, are you voting for me solely because I was "twisting CKD's words"? I was trying to get clarification there, but if that's what you see, ok. There must be more than that, though.

Dizzy, could you answer my ? please?

[neko2086]

Dizzy, which claims do you find most and least believable?

[neko2086]

Fair nuff


guardian, are you ignoring me? Maybe this just got lost behind AJ's multi-post--

I still have a question I'd like answered (see post 1315).

[neko2086]

wait, guardian, in that post, were you saying that I haven't been paying attention or that you haven't been paying attention? I took it that you were talking about me but maybe I was mistaken.

If you were saying that I haven't been paying attention, I was hoping mostly that you would tell me why, but if you have any comments on my thoughts on gs, that would be appreciated. I assumed you would look over them seeing as how you asked for the post number.

CKD's cryptic begging to be investigated, AND the slowness of his wagon leads me to believe that the scum don't want to vote their godfather.

That, or the slowness of his wagon means that there are better options available. The godfather thing is a bit ridiculous considering that we have no reliable investigative role. Would the godfather, or any townie for that matter, really want or even care to be investigated when there's no telling what the result might be or how people will interpret it at this point?

[neko2086]

Having the cops investigate each other may help sort out the claims, sanity issues, etc. Whatever happens, we certainly should not decide on a single person to investigate. Lots of potential information loss if that were the case.


Dizzy, thank you for your wishy-washy response. You're still sticking with K7 as least believable, and yet your reasons for it are flavor, gut, wifom, and just plain stubborn sticking to your guns. I don't think my vote will be moving.

[neko2086]

^Same here. This is essentially what I was saying in 1389.

[neko2086]

Just because he's least believable doesn't mean I necessarily think he's scum. It just means that of three pretty much equal claims, I find him to be marginally less believable. Nice work asking a question that was certain to put me into a bad position, though.

But, all this time I thought you were gunning for K7 being scum. So if you don't think he's scum, then who?

[neko2086]

So this is just skipping along. Guardian, this doesn't seem like you to not have an opinion... What is it about this thread that is keeping you from rereading and being active?

mod

, can we get that vote count and a prod on jester and skitzer? They haven't posted in over a week now

*****************
Top of Page Vote Count!
Curiouskarmadog -3- (Beep! Beep!,

The Jester, Guardian,

skitzer

)
Skitzer -2- (killa seven,

Alabaska J

)
DizzyIzzyB13 -2- (armlx.

Alabaska J

)
Neko2086 -1- (

DizzyIzzyB13

)
The Jester -1-(

curiouskarmadog

)

Neko2086 -0- (

curiouskarmadog

,

Alabaska J

)

Beep! Beep! -0- (

Guardian

)

Not Voting - (neko2086, skitzer)

They will be prodded!

[neko2086]

K, so are you still leaning toward ckd? If so, I hope you have more to go on than your last vote on him.

[neko2086]

Sorry, all that wasn't there when I was posting, ignore my last post

[neko2086]

Just to clear things up: Yosarian2's role has NOT been revealed, because he has left the game and has not died. This does not mean he is town or non-town, just like the other remaining players are not guaranteed town or non-town, even though they are black. Rest assured, Yosarian2 and everyone else's roles will be revealed at the end of the game, if not before. Thanks! ~Mod

This doesn't mean he's coming back, necessarily. I haven't seen anything else that would indicate otherwise. If he were to come back, I'd think he'd be back by now...

What makes the Jester a good lynch for you?

[neko2086]

Sorry, mod, but I think some of us are stalled waiting for a vote count.

I think this is accurate, but mod will have to confirm.

CUriouskarmadog -3- (Beep! Beep!, Guardian, Jester)
The Jester -2- (CKD, AJ)
DizzyIzzyB13 -2- (armlx, neko)
Skitzer -1- (killa seven)

Not Voting - (skitzer, DizzyIzzyB13)

With Ten alive, it takes SIX to lynch.


Notes:
skitzer was voting CKD earlier

k7's vote on skitzer is not helping anything. It's obvious that nobody else wants to lynch skitzer today. He is considering voting The Jester, however, to test his 'good' result on him.

Dizzy hasn't committed to anything all day, but will likely not vote for herself, so that would add to either the CKD or Jester wagon.

Dizzy's wagon, then, is probably going to have to disband since nobody else apparently sees the case on her, meaning that armlx and I will have to join either the CKD or Jester wagon. It looks like armlx would join the Jester wagon, and seeing as how the CKD godfather theory is crap and seems to be the best case on him, I'd probably join the Jester wagon as well.

My projected vote count would look like this:

CUriouskarmadog -4- (Beep! Beep!, Guardian, Jester, skitzer)
The Jester -5- (CKD, AJ, k7, neko, armlx)

Not Voting - (DizzyIzzyB13)

This is all if everything keeps going the way it's going, which it certainly doesn't have to, but this game is dying, so if anybody is going to present an alternate wagon, it had better be a good one. I still think the dizzy wagon is pretty well justified, but I could see Jester as scum, so I'm not entirely opposed to that wagon at this point.

Thoughts?

[neko2086]

Wow, there is a "good" result on Jester?

by k7, who got an evil result on skitzer, who claimed vengeful townie and is suspected to be a miller

[neko2086]

That's better.

DizzyIzzyB13 -4- (armlx, neko, Jester, k7)
CUriouskarmadog -2- (Beep! Beep!, Guardian)
The Jester -2- (CKD, AJ)

Not Voting - (skitzer, DizzyIzzyB13)

With Ten alive, it takes SIX to lynch.


I wasn't expecting that from Jester, so, that changes things quite a bit. Skitzer and Dizzy need to get in here.

[neko2086]

Skruffs, you sure I wasn't voting all this time? I could swear I was, but it doesn't matter. Also, I don't remember dizzy voting me, so maybe that got mixed up, but I could be wrong.

vote: Dizzy

Dizzy, it's great that you'd like us to scumhunt, but seeing as how you've hardly done any yourself, I'd say we are...

[neko2086]

Wouldn't a use of profanity show an over-reaction or defensiveness on the part of ckd, which is at least somewhat scummy? It may be a minor point, but I wouldn't discredit it entirely.

I don't agree with much of Beep's post, though. I think ckd's summary of Dizzy is a considerable undercut of the multiple cases brought forth by armlx, myself, others, so Beep's saying that he hasn't been paying attention is somewhat valid to that effect

The investigation/godfather argument is, in my opinion, weak and misunderstood on both ends. Why on earth a godfather would want to be investigated under current conditions is beyond me, and why an investigator would investigate his/her second or third choice for scum is even less clear.

Armlx, what would a claim accomplish at this point, especially since you're 0%likely to listen?

[neko2086]

I've always been under the impression that it was. Again,

a minor point

, so I think I made it clear that I'm not going to push it. But yes, I've always thought that some scum will occasionally lose their calm facade that they try to maintain when called out on something. Also, it can be advantageous to be the loudest voice in an argument. Basically, if you play like a jackass, nobody

really

wants to argue with you, so you get the upper hand.

In your case, it may just be playstyle, and I plan to meta you to find out. I just think that that's not always the case when these things happen.

[neko2086]

If each group had 3 members, then we are at 4town/3scum, which I think would still work, but we would be in lylo.

If it's 2 each, we should be in ok shape.

Just wondering, for a game of 18 players, how many should be scum for a balanced game? 6 seems like a bit much, but maybe if they're on different teams it's ok? Would 4 on 2 teams be too little? Somebody with game set-up math skillz should weigh in on this.

I'm confused about Beep's role now, because it sounded like she was supposed to find a sk to save or something like that right? There have been two kills each night, so that made sense, but knowing there's two scum groups making the kills, there must not be a sk. So, can Beep convert a mafia person? Didn't you get an innocent read on mafia though, Beep?

Also interested in hearing other investigation results.

[neko2086]

The "eaten by bear" kill was Cream's vengeful, wasn't it?

So, you're not looking for a sk because there doesn't appear to be one, and you're not looking for mafia, because they keep coming up town to you, so, what is this sinner doing and how are you helping us by finding him? I suppose, though, that you could be looking for one specific mafiate. That would make sense with CKD's suggestion.

[neko2086]

Well, I don't have a special claim to clear myself, so I can only imagine that k7 is an insane cop. Much more likely to believe skitzer is town and jester is scum. That, or I am also a miller and wasn't informed of it, and I don't think millers often are. Or, k7 is lying, but I don't really believe that.

CKD, one of the investigators died early on (ooba). We just need guardian's result now.

[neko2086]

The only thing that makes sense to me is that k7 is an insane cop. I know I'm town, so I know skitzer is town. Jester has to be mafia, then.

vote: The Jester

I think our best option today is lynching one of myself, skitzer, or jester. Lynching the 'innocent' result is counter-intuitive, I know, but it's worth considering.

I'm mighty confused how we could have 4 real cops.

You shouldn't be confused, because you know that you, at least, are not a 'real cop.' If you're telling the truth, you're most likely a paranoid cop. Beep is either lying or useless (unless there is one specific mafia she's looking for). K7 is insane. If we ever had a sane cop, it was ooba. Unfortunately, we'll never know, but based on your results alone, we

do

know that we don't have 4 real cops.

[neko2086]

When did k7 ever say he found any guns, and how would being a gunsmith make his role more trustworthy?

[neko2086]

...

if k7 is getting guilties on vengeful townies (skitzer), then he's insane, and we should be lynching you (Jester)

unless I'm missing something about the gunsmith deal.

********************
Top of the Page Vote Count!

The Jester -3- (

neko2086, skitzer, Beep! Beep!

Skitzer -2- (

curiouskarmadog, killa seven,

Beep! Beep!

)

The Jester, Beep! Beep!, Guardian
With Seven alive, it takes FOUR to lynch.

[neko2086]

Ah, missed the gunsmith discussions. Wiki says a gunsmith is a flavor cop. I've not been in a game with a gunsmith, so I wouldn't know otherwise.

I'm still confused as to why that would change anything.

[neko2086]

He wants somebody else to hammer the townie, and seeing as how you've offered to a couple times, I'm not surprised he's waiting.

[neko2086]

Damn damn damn!

What with guardian and ckd going at each other yesterday, I thought I had this one...

No idea what the theme is.

[neko2086]

I killed you k7. Sorry.

Was Ooba a sane cop, or was there none? Also,

so

confused as to what beep was supposed to be.

[neko2086]

Nobody would have lynched you.