In Memory

[mhsmith0]

Oh so it wasn't someone else's action, it's that you now are a regular one-voter as part of your role and it's permanent?

[mhsmith0]

OK. I was thinking there was a 2nd vanillazier and was wondering wtf was going on.

[mhsmith0]

Are you claiming a secondary post evolve ability then?

[mhsmith0]

k.

[mhsmith0]

the fact game started with 2 starting neighbourhood that we had a flip in each suggests that was a way for scum to have a communication with the seprate scum - which can be traitor cause SK wants mafia dead and to apear town

I thought the game started with 3 neighbourhoods. The one mshmith is in, the one I'm in, and the one Creature was in. No?

Which hood are you in, and who are you with? I think I'd missed a hood claim from your slot.

[mhsmith0]

K forgot about the rm/deo thing. Do you remember what creature hood was? I'm less concerned w who deo shipped than the starting hood stuff. Still want to get a mass claim,hopefully along with claims of night actions and accountability for who did what when, including anything potentially going forward.

I also think that jae should be moving to a town read of theirs with a useful power (postie has claimed something useless and as such there is no gain to going there), and that a mass claim would be helpful to narrow down what would be useful to target on that front.

[mhsmith0]

K thx

[mhsmith0]

Ok so creature was neighborized by Kuroi, not was mod-assigned. That shouldn't be indicative of anything then I'd think.

[mhsmith0]

She claimed some kind of flavor investigator, which in a game where flavor and alignment are supposedly unrelated, is basically useless.

[mhsmith0]

I had one flavor check, used it on alisae, and I consider it to have essentially been a wasted exercise. Deo power was useful, and got boosted by jaereed. I'd think that at least one other power around here is reasonably useful and could be boosted (dreal vig claim being the most obvious potential example).

[mhsmith0]

The useful part of my power is the odd night follow. That actually has merit, the flavor checker is a little cherry on top sort of thing.

[mhsmith0]

Btw, I don't think postie is scum, but I'd suggest people avoid flavor claiming until she's claimed her flavor checks. I'd like some kind of verification that she actually has done what she said she was able to do.

[mhsmith0]

Not sure. I'd like a mass claim first, and I hope something intersting pops out of it. Off the cuff I'd guess malachite but it's a pretty weak guess and I still want to do a re-read first ( >1 week left so I just haven't gotten around to it yet).

[mhsmith0]

FA, can you verify that at least one such result is something postie would have had to investigate on her own?

[mhsmith0]

yeah when someone replaces in to 180+ pages, you have to give them a few days at least, if there is tha tmuch on the clock

and there is so, keep it in your pants?

I DIDNT KNOW IT WAS THAT KIND OF PARTY

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Ok NOW maybe too much

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Alisae went nowhere last night.

[mhsmith0]

Hopefully jaereed was smart enough to partner w a useful PR last night instead of postie again.

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhsmith
Can this die now?

Still town, still dumb to lynch me.

[mhsmith0]

Also why did you follow me instead of drealmerz?

Because I thought drealz was decently likely to be town, ought to be self-resolving anyway, and had pretty decent odds of dying if he was town.

And we SHOULD have mass claimed yesterday but apparently it was more fun to flashwagon for subbing.

[mhsmith0]

wtf would scum have a track / flavor cop or whatever all he is?

He's a role cop. Lynch him.

Who did you partner w last night?

[mhsmith0]

Drealz self resolves when he takes a shot and has a substantial chance of eating a kill causing my follow to be wasted. Objectively a poor follow action.

[mhsmith0]

You were reasonably in the POE and had basically zero chance of eating a scum shot, making you a solid investigative target.

Ideally I could have verified someone w a night action but apparently that wasn't considered "fun" to let me know who could do something objectively verifiable.

[mhsmith0]

Having two flavour cops doesn't make much sense. Having one only get CLUES about flavour (Postie) and the other be a full flavour cop makes even less.
His only claimed results are on someone who claimed their flavour in a neighbourhood with RM, and someone who was killed that night, which is convenient in the most suspicious manner possible.
An element cop without some kind of weakened role cop doesn't make sense.
If there were a weakened role cop my role would boost them to a regular role cop, and smith fits this perfectly.

Those are Postie's points on why smith is scum and fakeclaiming.

Having two useless roles makes perfect sense, as flavor is basically useless knowledge. That's objectively terrible setup spec there.

Also did you or did you not spend time yourselfmtinfoiling on lycan in our hood before he died and talking about "maybe he janitored boring"? So given that, how in the word is that a bad investigate?

[mhsmith0]

smith have you been pocketing me this whole time?

No.

[mhsmith0]

Keep in mind that, other than me, there are ZERO investigative roles worth anything that have flipped or declared. Idk RC mod style, but its WEIRD for town to not get much of any investigative usefulness in a game like this.

[mhsmith0]

Who did you join with last night?

[mhsmith0]

Also I had two follow results that DID mean something, unless you think I'm scum role cop both with and without your boost,which is a ridiculous theory.

[mhsmith0]

Fwiw my suggestion would STILL be mass claim, and then go from there. Should have been done yesterday 100% of the time.

[mhsmith0]

Which means even if you think smith is town you should be voting either him or me. Because a lylo with a town!smith and myself means scum wins.

This is objectively terrible by the way. Just because you want to threaten to game throw doesn't mean town should go along w it.

[mhsmith0]

None of his results have meant anything and with RM/boring unclaimed self janitor that means they were scum, and Alisae claimed flavour in the hood there. Of course he'd know it.

I'm going to make this very clear: I will not lynch anywhere else this entire game while smith is alive and I cannot be nightkilled with the vanillaizer dead.

Alisae, did you claim flavor in the RM hood? And when/how did JaeReed find out about it?

[mhsmith0]

Also jae you should be joining with drealz tonight for reasons that should be incredibly obvious.

[mhsmith0]

Which means even if you think smith is town you should be voting either him or me. Because a lylo with a town!smith and myself means scum wins.

This is objectively terrible by the way. Just because you want to threaten to game throw doesn't mean town should go along w it.

It's only game throwing if you're town, which you're not. So no.

Why, other than poor setup spec, am I not town?

[mhsmith0]

Also note smith trying to throw shade on me despite me being obvtown all fucking game. He's trying to pull a scumread out his ass because he knows he's never winning this game with me in it, and he can't kill me except via lynching.

Citations needed. Find where I pushed a scum read on you.

[mhsmith0]

Your play.

This is 100% NOT your town play in any way shape or form.

And now actually explain it. What specifically about my play is different from my town play as you understand it? For that matter, what about my play resembles my scum play (another one of those recently ended, btw, in case you're curious).

[mhsmith0]

Your night actions have been awful, and your defense of your night actions is not anything like town!smith from Fireworks.

This isn't anything like town!smith from Fireworks, or the newbie in terms of tone.
This is like scum!smith from Ranger's IC game with no emotional depth.

Which night actions have been awful? Explain EACH of my actions from "this makes no sense for town!smith" please.

[mhsmith0]

Which newbie did you compare against for tone btw?

[mhsmith0]

I'm not engaging with this anymore. He's trying to get out of being confscum and the more I engage the more he gets a fucking chance to. smith goes.

Lynch him.

There's nothing confscum about me, and your repeating it endlessly does not magically make it true.

[mhsmith0]

Your night actions have been awful

Please tell me I'm not the first one to point this out.

Which choices have been awful? Targeting you last night was sensible for the reasons I just described, ditto drealz on n3, ditto lycan n2. How about actually explaining why they supposedly make no sense for me to have done as town?

[mhsmith0]

I'm not engaging with this anymore. He's trying to get out of being confscum and the more I engage the more he gets a fucking chance to. smith goes.

Lynch him.

Btw, presuming you're town (which I still consider likely) this is objectively terrible play. I don't care how confbiased you are, you NEVER say "fuck it I don't care to engage anymore". If you learn nothing else from this game (and joining w postie's useless abilities multiple nights was abhorrent play btw), learnt that.

[mhsmith0]

Well they make perfect sense coming from scum to try to keep up a fakeclaim.
Lycan died N2 so his flip is basicly public info.
Drealmerz on N3 is stated after drealmerz confirms he did not make a kill.
Me on N4 makes sense if you're scum because you were probably told by RM what my flavor was.
Me on N5 after I just confirmed myself as a VT.

You're scum trying to keep up his fake claim.
Not interacting with you anymore.
You're not even trying to lynch scum at this point. If you are then lead a lynch.

I don't know who is scum yet. I fail to see why you think I should be roaring out the gate with a hard-on to lynch someone.

You also need to explain why my actions make no sense from town, not just why scum could have done them.

Ps when did you tell RM your flavor, and when did jaereed find out that you told RM?

[mhsmith0]

And ONCE AGAIN I repeat that we should be mass claiming, WHICH WE AHOULD HAVE DONE YESTERDAY.

[mhsmith0]

And how did jaereed find out?

[mhsmith0]

And how did jaereed find out?

Still want an answer from alisae and /or jae on this. I fail to see how it's anything other than an easy factual question to answe.

[mhsmith0]

I'm also curious why anyone would think lycan was a bad role cop N2. He'd claimed a role (and not a particularly good one IMO), there was a possible shenanigans with boring flip (and "hammer causes something bad" is an obvious mechanical possibility), and he seemed a super unlikely scum kill given how suspected he was.

Like, I'm super curious, for anyone who thinks that was a bad power use, who would have been a BETTER use at that spot and why.

[mhsmith0]

I'm not answering you on jack. You're the last scum trying to get out of being roped today because you screwed up your fakeclaim. The end.

You can't answer a simple factual question? You can't answer where you found out about alisaes role claim? That's an INCREDIBLY easy question to answer, why can't you?

[mhsmith0]

^flavor claim

[mhsmith0]

...
An element cop without some kind of weakened role cop doesn't make sense.

Incidentally, the element cop is pretty obviously there as supplement to vanillaizer, I.e. After using power they find out by #flavor points how much it seems to have been worth, and it gives something of a fake claim when under fire.

[mhsmith0]

Also, fwiw a full role cop for scum on top of a presumed self-janitor (with unknown other abilities) and a strongman is pretty abhorrent balance wise unless there's a lot of town power, and for the most part town hasn't shown much power.

Doctor has TWO counters (vanillaizer and strongman), even night vig is a weak ability, and booster is nice but as shown w postie boosts, isn't worth all that much for at least a pretty decent fraction of he roles on the board.

Obviously it would be better to setup spec AFTER mass claim, but there's where I am right now. Given scum power on the board, plus presumed 11v4 (much more scumsided than typical distribution), town seems ridiculously underpowered without some additional useful abilities. I'm curious if anyone is going to claim anything or if we're going to pretend like lynching one of the few non junk town PRs is a good idea.

[mhsmith0]

postie knew her flavor using her abilities and she told him.

Jaereed claimed knowledge that GAMMA claimed the flavor in the hood. I'm not asking how jae knew the flavor, I'm asking how jae knew that gamma claimed to rachmarie.

[mhsmith0]

Also please claim or explain why you think it's a bad idea.

[mhsmith0]

Do u promise to flavor claim before day end? I'm fine w waiting on creature, but I'm nit fine with getting mislynched due to shitty setup spec, especially when we don't even have all the data.

[mhsmith0]

Alisae, who took no actions.

[mhsmith0]

Odd night follower even night flavor checker

N2 boost to role cop checked lycan
N3 followed drealz, did nothing
N4 flavor checked Klingon, was the snow globe thing
N5 followed alisae, did nothing

[mhsmith0]

If there had been a mass claim maybe I check someone who had an ability to verify (briefly mulled over doing that w postie) but in absence of that, alisae seemed like a wise choice. Already a proven double voter, so a ninja power would be really unlikely, so basically never last scum. Also approximately 0% chance of eating a scum bullet.

[mhsmith0]

Incidentally alisae's flavor is slaking.

Yeah it's called misremembering. That's not a scum claim, that's a "I don't give a fuck about remembering the details about flavor" claim.

[mhsmith0]

Unless you think I'm particularly stupid and careless as scum, which is the exact opposite of my problem when scum.

[mhsmith0]

Odd night follower even night flavor checker

N2 boost to role cop checked lycan
N3 followed drealz, did nothing
N4 flavor checked Alisae, was slaking (I forgot who I checked, for the fairly obvious reason that flavor checker is a useless role that doesn't matter)
N5 followed alisae, did nothing

[mhsmith0]

I look forward to "smith is WIFOMing up that he's only pretending to give zero shits about his flavor check and who he checked there" by the way.

[mhsmith0]

I'd appreciate the answers, JR, I'm really not convinced of him and your attitude is not helping me sort it

I'm actually fairly sure that was stated in the main thread, but anyway, Postie told me when walking me through with baby steps why smith is confscum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=27591
This is smith's ISO of a towngame. His emotional reactions there are fucking obvious. There's nothing here.

Would said emotions there be before or after accountant became lockscum? Just skimming ,IMO there it seemed like a relatively LOW emotion game for me for the most part. Which posts in partuclar do you think show emotion that I've lacked here?

[mhsmith0]

There is a slight chance that RM and their relacement were townand we are In mylo

I don't want to fuck this up

pedit : >.>

Flavor check is what puts you in opposition of postie and That is making sense for neighbourhood hunting - the way element cop was weak but useful for scum

Clarify what makes sense for hood hunting with flavor check? Flavor seemed utterly useless to me, what use are you seeing?

[mhsmith0]

smith is WIFOMing up that he's only pretending to give zero shits about his flavor check and who he checked there

I mean, I've been pretty consistent all game when the topic came up that it was a shitty power that didn't matter

Also, did you ever say anything to anyone about gamma claiming his flavor in your hood that would have nailed it to get to jaereed that you flavor claimed?

[mhsmith0]

I believed I said it in thread and to Postie in our hood yesterday as well.

Please quote what u said in thread, thx

[mhsmith0]

loss thread

love thread

You being investigative makes sense with your flavor

what I can do makes sense with my flavor

its a weak role cop

So you think I'm scum but honestly claiming my powers and results?

Do you think it's reasonable for town to be in 11v4 with the flips given and my claim NOT to be real? Town seems super underpowered, with most roles being pretty useless. Iirc you claimed to be great at setup spec, and you know RC better than anyone alive, so what do you think is reasonable here given what we know?

[mhsmith0]

pg 1 of the neighberhood with RM, DEO, and Gammaslot, Gamma says his flavor is a Slaking right away for some reason.

mhsmith is trying everything he can to find any kind of contradiction so he can weasel his way out of this.

He has fakeclaimed. End of.

Saying I've fakeclaimed repeatedly does not magically make it true.

[mhsmith0]

Scum power:
One shot strongman neighbor
Vanillaizer w a minor investigative
Some kind of janitoring ability (also possible vote count shenanigans? Tho that's probably just a function of postie ability)
???

Town flipped power
1-shot delayed deathproof
Delayed death redirector
1-shot gladiator neighborizer
Doctor or shipper
1-shot dead neighborizer / posthumous voter
1-shot doublevoter (clever of her to look like a no voter btw)

Those town roles largely blow (other than doc), and the scum roles really don't. Throw in a presumed 11/4 (or maybe 11/3/1?) and I challenge anyone to spec it out where I'm either lying or actually some kind of scum investigative (when scum REALLY does not need any investigative power)

[mhsmith0]

mhs your claiming alisae didn't target ANYONE

yes?

Yes

[mhsmith0]

I claimed the death related ability to Postie in D2.
I claimed it to smith late D3.
I claimed it to The DEO early N3.

I confirm

I also dislike that smith tried to get me to move to someone "more useful" as he knows about that part of my role.

And if I'm scum I don't need to do this because I can just shoot whoever anyway. Unless you think that I realized that postie was faking nonvoter, why the HELL would I take a shot that would result in her death? It is ALWAYS easier and better to just shoot a useful role, of which there was a claimed vig, and possibly something else from frozen or creature.

[mhsmith0]

ok so here is the thing

Jae is Confirmed Town

The lynch pool is mhs/drealm/creature as mhs has an ino on alisae (though ninja is a possibility - I don't know slacking - someone tell if that make sense with that flavor or not)

I MIGHT claim today if I sense we are in mylo - regardless I'm asking Drealm to shoot me tonight. We are lynching in mhs/creature

Ok so why is creature scum? Just POE or something setup-related in particular? I'm fine if you want to wait until creature claims to explain but I will want reasons.

Fwiw I admit I don't really have a good idea rn, will try and think it through and reread.

[mhsmith0]

"More Useful" when he was a rolecop?

No, he said Postie's ability was useless yesterday, and even the start of today claimed I shouldn't have been with her. I think he was hoping I'd move to you.

Why? What beenfit does scum!me get from you moving to FA? If she's a useful pr I could just shoot her, if she isn't then you wouldn't be convinced to go there anyway. Beyond "well you're scum so it's scum-motivated" what ACTUAL benefit does scum!me get there?

Scum inves make perfect sense in this setup if Drealm is town

Why? Scum already has vanillaizer and strongman, what gain do they get from more investigative tha would reasonably be balanced out overall?

[mhsmith0]

The vanlizer is a temp one and was designed to counter me and lycanfire and no one else

the strongman was against deo and Jae

the elemt cop was a deo/postie hunter

Was it? Doesn't it block EVERY town power?

Simplicity is Best (Simplifier): Each night you may target one player, simplifying them into a Vanilla Townie for that night and the following day.

Fwiw I'm still not sure why scum!me doesn't use the team vanillaizer on jaereed the night he grabs me and/or strongman the next night, since that seems like a pretty obvious move overall if I knew what his abilities were.

Also not sure why scum!me does jack shit to save or effectively bus either teammate (blah blah blah smith is frozen scum ), curious if anyone wants to argue my motivation there (inb4 only thing left is "it's wifom" as if that's a good reason to abandon useful power role teammates)

[mhsmith0]

maybe she is BP

And if she doesn't die, then maybe tha becomes fodder for the next day. I fail to see why that's reason to be nervous about shooting her.

[mhsmith0]

Fwiw I'm still not sure why scum!me doesn't use the team vanillaizer on jaereed the night he grabs me and/or strongman the next night, since that seems like a pretty obvious move overall if I knew what his abilities were.

He did not know this on the night. I told him during the day.

This is a desperate attempt to discredit me because I'm not outing the full thing that happens in thread.

Ok cool, you told me during the day then. Why don't I have zef strongman you as a follow up? Why don't I try and swing lynch to zef for town cred and get you vanillaizer the next night and die? What's my scum plan here? Or am I just flailing about all game with no plan whatsoever?

[mhsmith0]

I'm not "nervous about shooting her"

is dislike announcing targets because I think it allows scum to maneuver/manipulate things

Give me an example of what you think scum might be able to do to manipulate, other than "well only frozen died so drealz isn't proven vig"

[mhsmith0]

MHS one last time your result on alisae is that she didn't visit anyone

yes?

he took no action. confirmed. similarly, drealz took no action on n3 (part of why I'm skeptical he's an SK, becuase that means bizarre overlaps in kills, very effective doctoring, intentional SK no kills, and/or ninja [the latter potentially makes sense, the rest don't especially] )

[mhsmith0]

seriously what the fuck is this shit
he's answered this multiple times already
what is your fucking deal?!

she's representing that she's coming close to betting the game on her making the correct vengekill, which seems reasonable enough tbh

[mhsmith0]

How do you think I'm betting the game with my vengkill? why RM was town?

Well JaeReed has indicated that they're happy to tunnel me in potential LYLO seemingly without any consideration of rethinking, so yeah it's pretty close to do or die.

Also boring was probscum, but not 100%. Different shenanigans than I think are at least possible, though I'd probably give it just around like 10% odds.

[mhsmith0]

why you said you checked klingon?

because I forgot, and I forgot because i didn't care about flavor and think it's pretty close to a pointless power

[mhsmith0]

You forgot your result when claiming cause your making shit up is more probable

when was the first time you claimed flavor cop thing to anyone and where did you do it?

first time I claimed flavor cop at all was to jaereed in the hood after he fused with me, told him i was even night flavor checker that got bumped to role cop

first time i claimed result of flavor check was in thread

mhsmith dies today.

Jae has a role that allows them to visit someone each night and gain a neighbourhood with them for that night and day phase, as well as "upgrading" their ability to a better one as long as they're together.

Jae visited me on the (missing) night 1 and my ability was boosted from a weakened version of a flavour cop that only gives me clues about a person's flavour, to a full flavour cop.

Jae visited me again last night and I found out from them that they visited mhsmith on night 2 and mhsmith claimed not only to be flavour cop, but that his flavour cop was boosted to a fucking role cop.
mhsmith also apparently tried to convince Jae to stay with him another night by suggesting that maybe the next night he'd become a full cop or some bullshit.

VOTE: mhsmith0

Lynch this with fucking fire.

I'm an odd night follower and an even night flavor checker. Flavor checker got boosted to role cop; my presumption is that follower would get an even bigger boost.

Incidentally alisae's flavor is slaking.

FWIW I actually tend to be more careful about this sort of thing as scum, which puts me in the same group as just about everyone else. Forgetting a trivial part of your claim is fundamentally NAI, unless you have reason to think that town!me would actually consider a flavor checker to be meaningfully important. Because town!me can and would EASILY give no shits about an unimportant part of his role and just half-ass remembering details that I'd consider unimportant.

That part of my role that mattered was the N2 role cop and N3/N5 follows. N4 didn't matter, and I still don't see why any part of flavor checker was important enough to make a big deal out of, barring the minor chance of catching scum in a lie because they wanted a flavor claim more in tune with whatever fake role claim they wanted to make.

[mhsmith0]

I'm not doing team work at all

I'm town leader and I'm killing someone today

and that someone is you

VOTE: Frozen Angel

As much fun as it is to rush into lynches and all that, can we at least wait a day or two? I'd at least like to take some time to re-read and mull the game state over, and I probably won't have a tremendous amount of time for that until like 48 hours form now.

Also creature has yet to check in and claim and that should basically always happen before day end too.

[mhsmith0]

I do what I wanna do

This post is scummy

1) I do too, and I'd rather actually take time to think things through
2) How?

[mhsmith0]

LOSING STREAK OVER WHOOOOOOOOOO


http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... Mash-Mafia

Amuse yourselves at how I get outed like right away as the wolf vig, then amuse yourself even further with my bizarre win anyway thanks to a peek on a gf who is the last wolf alive out of a 16 man team and somehow lives through like 15v1

Ps not gonna post game related shit tonight, probably doing that tomorow

[mhsmith0]

Yah I actually randed Shang Tsung, #3 wolf power role, died d2 in ITA shots.

Top wolf roles
Zexy (0 posts day 1, replaced by zork who outs himself d3 by shooting at a peeked villager, and also outs our best player who fake peeked him villa because we needed his power to stay alive)
FaZ
Me

And debatably the top 10 players in the game were all villagers

Somehow we win anyway

Usually stuff like that only happens when I'm a villager, nice to get variance running good once in a while

[mhsmith0]

Well actually dwetzel was a great player but he subbed like d3 after the rout was in process

[mhsmith0]

Postgame getting salty too. Nice to be on other side

[mhsmith0]

FA, is your vengeful strongman? If not then you should just venge me since drealz claimed BP in our hood.

Also could people PLEASE just wait a damn day or two for me to read and share thoughts?

[mhsmith0]

when did he claim that? D2?

he actually claimed it wednesday night (so earlier this day phase). i told him i'd eventually call it out in main thread, and his call if he wanted to make a note of it first or not.

[mhsmith0]

geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
it got AWFULLY QUIET

Well I'm at work so (as usual) don't expect much from me during normal working hours.

[mhsmith0]

@mhs why didn't you take that as 100% scum claim when YOU know stuff?

Because I hadn't really been thinking about his interaction with zef, and I was busy defending myself (go back to http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8834719, skim the next few pages, see what my focus was on).

[mhsmith0]

Anyway, I do need to get back to work, I'll check back in tonight or early tomorrow, probably tonight.

[mhsmith0]

sort of checking in, not hammering, actual content to come later
(i.e. you now have confirmation it's not me/alisae as a team)

[mhsmith0]

sort of checking in, not hammering, actual content to come later
(i.e. you now have confirmation it's not me/alisae as a team)

Actually both FA and Alisae unvoted at the top of the page So there wasn't a way for you two to hammer anyways, since FA unvoted.

This is what happens when I just look at vote counts

[mhsmith0]

Which has been since edited but still

[mhsmith0]

As mediocre as I was overall (and I think that's probably fair), I'd like to point out that my last night action basically locked the game (to the point where drealz had to make the pretty clearly ridiculous argument that a Slaking was also a ninja in order to try and get that last mislynch).

Tho in fairness my N3 follow of drealz was probably poor. I'd still stand by my role cop of lycan on N2 though; it's pretty unusual for the counter-wagon of a non-flipped scum to be a night kill there, especially in a game where there probably was SOME amount of useful town power out there.

[mhsmith0]

I am curious as to what happens if you followed us and saw us visit Postie plus our neighborhood. We didn't feel Postie was the most accurate, but they were the town holding the neighbor chain.

I love neighbor chains. Math hates townblocks. Kinda surprised we got the roles we did.

Getting a neighborize result would have reinforced your role claim, but I think it was pretty unlikely that I'd have followed you N3 since my recollection was I was TRing your slot basically the whole game, and the twilight stuff only made it stronger:

Subject: Memories: Loss Neighbourhood

to me that totally looks like The DEO buddy-hammered

It kinda looks super like the opposite to me. The entire execution was just so incredibly awkward and sloppy that I struggle to see THAT as a bus. Derping the hammer, forgetting who's voting who, deflecting off of the mistake... if Vax was town I could more plausibly see that as a possible scum process, but as someone who KNEW the hammer was on scum, and KNEW that "why'd you hammer that claim" was never gonna be a valid cause for suspicion... I dunno. Maybe I'll read it again but that was just so completely bizarre for scum theater that I'm pretty skeptical.

Also @drealz/zef: what was the strategy behind zef zero posting in the hood? Just a WIFOM thing or was there an additional gain?

[mhsmith0]

i know (/probably shouldn't know) that the scumteam thought this was townsided.

FWIW this was probably the most scumsided setup I've played on MS other than open setup Stack the Deck. Scum had three objectively useful PRs (vanillaizer, janitor, strongman) with the capability of getting additional PR shots from a fuse, and they got a ninja that could potentially fool the follower (not sure why drealz apparently holstered his ninja shot N5 fwiw).

That said, once the janitor AND the vanillaizer got shoved out the door d2 and d3 it was always gonna be a hard uphill slog for scum; that's the inherent consequence of having two strong scum roles leave the game early. Throw in the strongman death d4, and a bunch of shots that failed to hit town's useful power, and it's honestly kinda surprising that it ever hit LYLO in the first place.

Mechanically, I'd say that the game was probably swingy on JaeReed's role; the fuse was super useful with creature, my, and DEO's roles, and also potentially devastating if it fused with the janitor or strongman. Scum had chances to derail JaeReed's role using strongman or vanillaizer, but didn't get it done on N2/N3, and by N4 it was too late.

I think if you play this setup, say, 100 times, you'll see a scum win in the ballpark of 65%. Which is probably stretching it for balance, but probably within the range of fairness. Both teams had their chances and their abilities, town ultimately had to do a bit more than usual, but was able to get it done.

TLDR: good job town!

[mhsmith0]

One of the down sides of daytalk is that when things go badly for scum team it can get unpleasant.

As opposed to when things go badly for town and you see all the villagers melting down ITT

[mhsmith0]

Ok NOW maybe too much

DAMN IT

YOUR MAKING ME HAPPY ON PURPOSE

btw this was me achieving my secret win con

[mhsmith0]

Subject: Memories: Pony Express Topic

...
Lemme pull an RC and just say that I've never been wrong on a scumread of this strength.

Achievement unlocked

[mhsmith0]

Setup spec isn't bad per se. But in a game where flavor is explicitly not AI, then flavor cops are sufficiently useless that getting two isn't notable IMO.