In Memory
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Math isn't trying to be condescending, they're trying to sort you, I think. To do that they want to see your process with your scumread on them because it's easier to judge if someone is genuine with scumreads on your own slot than others.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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MathBlade is a logical player. They require you to present your logic in order to read you.In post 3003, drealmerz7 wrote:you have a serious issue with people SRing you, eh ?
does anyone know if that is AI for either of them?
If there's something I can do to mediate I'll do it because I think you're both town here, but I feel like I need a bit more from you on what you need me to explain. I do not believe MathBlade's problem here is an issue with people scumreading them, but rather an issue with not understanding your logical processes currently.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Is it possible that this just stems from smith and drealmerz being in a hood together and therefore communicating there?In post 3001, The DEO wrote:
Mhsmith pings me for stuff like this because he kept trying to dissuade me from his Lycanfire's redirect being used. It makes me think he had inside knowledge with you that you were. It gave me a creepy he knows something vibe. Combined with that and you claiming vig it gives me weird "feels".In post 2179, mhsmith0 wrote:@deo: yeah that's fine. I'm just skeptical he actually did use his redirect in that situation.
That is an example Drealmerz.
~~Math-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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This is not what they are trying to do. I'm sorry that you feel that way.In post 3012, drealmerz7 wrote:and that's not condescension, JR?
that shit does NOT make me want to engage them
"I know better and I'm going to teach you a lesson" it's fucking arrogant bullshit that I don't need
I believe MathBlade comes from a place of being misunderstood a lot and so is trying to clear up what they feel could be either a communication issue or scum without reasons to push.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I can also quite easily read emotional cues where I don't think either head has an easy time of that. It appears to me that Titus is not scumreading you, and it's just MathBlade. I asked that to get MathBlade to talk to me to maybe be able to convince them of my viewpoint on their read.In post 3015, drealmerz7 wrote:
and you were able to deduce that yourself without needing it explained to you point by point, why can't TWO HEADS WHO SEEM SORT OF SMART AT LEAST FIGURE IT OUT BETWEEN THEM????In post 3013, JaeReed wrote: Is it possible that this just stems from smith and drealmerz being in a hood together and therefore communicating there?
I understand your frustration right now. I really do, I've been there before to the point that I self voted because I got frustrated that I couldn't communicate effectively with Math. I believe they are probably feeling quite a large amount of frustration over this, too. Maybe take 5 to cool down? You didn't want this to turn toxic, remember? I'll try to figure out the problem in the meantime, yeah?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I believe that would be because there is some room for doubt. He might be fairly certain from the hood that drealmerz is town and therefore wasn't redirected, but he can't know that for certain if he's town. If anything, I believe the fact that there's room for doubt points more to mhsmith not being scummy for that (note that I'm not necessarily saying he's town for it, just that it's a null point to me). Does that make sense?In post 3018, The DEO wrote:
That is possible but I feel it is unlikely because of the fact that he then wouldn't be just skeptical he would be almost certain. The way mhsmith phrases it makes it seem like there is room for doubt.In post 3013, JaeReed wrote:Is it possible that this just stems from smith and drealmerz being in a hood together and therefore communicating there?
~~Math-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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drealmerz, the way I understand it you felt manipulated by The DEO into scumreading S_S after he flipped green, yes?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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That's the thing though isn't it? You can see potential scumdoings in everything anyone does if you want to. What it comes down to is what is more likely, imo.In post 3032, drealmerz7 wrote:I can see POTENTIAL scumdoings in all of that.
I do not believe The DEO's play here has been scum motivated moreso than town motivated.-
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He could be sure that drealmerz wasn't redirected without being sure that no one else was?In post 3034, The DEO wrote:I don't see it that way. In a hood with a townread I would collaborate.
In such if a redirection flipped my first thought would be "I wasn't redirected into the hood."
If his first thought was to claim vig here where is that surity of him sayinf he wasn't redirected in the hood after me asking several times? I feel he would have had more conviction. I don't like how mhsmith threw shade on it the instant I suggested it.
~~Math-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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The thing is your explanation is a more emotional one. That would require Math to read emotional responses at a fairly high level, I think?
@Math I do not believe there was a point where he stated a reason to scumread your slot on D1, if that's what you're asking for? This was the closest I could find:
He exhibits some paranoia over potential buddying.In post 732, drealmerz7 wrote:hey, The DEO, I'm getting more and more comfortable being thread mason with you cause we see a lot of stuff eye-to-eye here and it does make me comfortable! maybe a little too comfortable for comfort though so I've got my eye on you still-
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...............................................................................................................................In post 3040, drealmerz7 wrote:so give me a better SR and make the case!! I'm listening!
I feel like I need those breathing exercises after seeing this.
Remember my case on Vedith? I've asked multiple times what you thought of that and you've always defaulted to talking about Vaxkiller instead. I want your opinion on why what Vedith did D1 and how he positioned himself there and stayed off wagons is in any way town indicative or not scum indicative enough for a vote, please.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I don't believe it's so ridiculous in this context.In post 3045, mhsmith0 wrote:PS lycan redirecting dreal onto himself (as opposed to, say, back onto dreal) seems especially ridiculous. A redirect can be a fun way to get scum to target themselves with a night kill or other action; lycan redirecting anyone to target lycan makes MUCH less sense than lycan redirecting someone to literally anyone other than lycan (which agian makes rather little sense in the situation)
Lycan thought he was going to be pushed to be the next mislynch. Given his ability should have had him live for this day phase, he could have redirected his scumread drealmerz onto himself in order to both prove that he's town, and prove drealmerz was scum through his death after redirecting drealmerz to him. He did clearly say something about us not taking him alive, didn't he?
In that case we still circle back to what FA was saying though. Something also vanillaized him for the kill to not be delayed.
In that case it's 3 scenarios:
1) Scum!drealmerz was meant to kill elsewhere while a buddy vanillaized Lycan and got kill redirected onto Lycan
2) Scum!drealmerz is also a vanillaizer and meant to kill/vanillaize either Lycan or elsewhere and got redirected onto Lycan
2) Town!drealmerz meant to kill Lycan with a vig shot and scum vanillaized Lycan so the delayed death wouldn't cause issues with their next likely mislynch-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I don't feel like giving potential scum a pass because they always look scummy as town is good play. I've successfully read people like that before (unless their name is Klingoncelt in which case I'm 0/2), and it's more to do with the way the associates point and whether the read is genuine, same as everyone else. I feel as though you're just not trying to actually sort the slot because it's lynchbait at best, which is a very lazy read.In post 3047, drealmerz7 wrote:because I'm not going to vote a slot based on D1 of the previous owner of the slot, that seems reckless
I totally see it as scummy from vedith on D1, absolutely no doubt, but, my experience with vedith doesn't make that damning IN THE SLIGHTEST, he plays pretty fucking scummy as town
the kind of player who probably prefer to live to the end-game and lose rather than die early and win - a selfish player who was likely positioning himself to best suit himself in the long run - I can see him doing that as scum or town, but that is just from the limited exposure I have of him, I have to keep that in mind
it's not damning or excusable, its simply a base to go from, and from there, is why it turns to vax, he's that slot now and has produced MUCH MORE content than vedith did
I actually don't know. I don't readily remember everyone I've played with before if they're largely unremarkable. Could be none, could be a handful? My case isn't meta-based though so it's a moot point.In post 3048, drealmerz7 wrote:how many completed games you have with vedith?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I don't think no lynching in a game where we're already informationally starved is a good idea, drealm.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Gamma, smith, Klingon, maybe zef at this stage. Those are the ones I have the least confidence in my reads of that seem to be on the table.-
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I don't think The DEO will want Gamma on the table, though.
Postie the thing is, you're not incorrect, but of the lot I still think zef is showing the most actual attempts to gamesolve despite that, which means he's more likely to be town.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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So by my count by Page 20 the votes looked like this:
DEO wagon had Vax having an awful jump on with a "bought your vote" comment in response to Titus saying Math bought drinks. Kuroi had a "we need to consolidate votes" jump on, which then tied it with the Vax wagon. drealmerz jumped on during the back and forth.
The DEO (4): Klingoncelt, Vaxkiller, KuroiXHF, drealmerz7
Vaxkiller (3): JaeReed, Gamma Emerald
ɀefiend (1): Creature
Mhsmith0 (1): ɀefiend
Frozen Angel (1): The DEO
Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0, Frozen Angel
With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Gonna continue getting an unofficial count up after the latest vote changes.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Unofficial by my count:
The DEO (3): Klingoncelt, Vaxkiller, KuroiXHF
Vaxkiller (3): JaeReed, Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald (2): mhsmith0, drealmerz7
ɀefiend (1): Creature
Mhsmith0 (1): ɀefiend
Frozen Angel (1): The DEO
Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel
With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Honestly? I don't have the energy after everything else. I don't have a confident enough townread that I feel like defending it. I feel drained from defending my hard TRs today already from each other.In post 3101, Postie wrote:
Quotes and why you think they're genuine examples of game-solving? All I'm seeing is a relentless tunnel on DEO and refusal to accept any other viewpoints.In post 3100, JaeReed wrote:Postie the thing is, you're not incorrect, but of the lot I still think zef is showing the most actual attempts to gamesolve despite that, which means he's more likely to be town.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I really would just prefer Vax. There is too much resistance to that lynch and too much of people ignoring my points then asking for them repeatedly. Counterwagon on my hardest townread DEO popped up to it. Now a counterwagon on Gamma the person voting with me on Vax. But people are saying he's town so :/ iunno. I'll hammer or vote on whoever gets up to a leading wagon that I'm not hard townreading at this point.
pedit - thanks drealmz <3 *hugs*-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I mean even those points aren't particularly relevant as reasons, actually.In post 3110, JaeReed wrote:I really would just prefer Vax. There is too much resistance to that lynch and too much of people ignoring my points then asking for them repeatedly. Counterwagon on my hardest townread DEO popped up to it. Now a counterwagon on Gamma the person voting with me on Vax. But people are saying he's town so :/ iunno. I'll hammer or vote on whoever gets up to a leading wagon that I'm not hard townreading at this point.
The people asking me to case Vax after I already did so are mostly my townreads + zef I think?
The people doing counterwagon votes outside of my townreads are Klingon and smith only and I think Klingon voted DEO ages ago and hasn't been around much since, so it's really just smith.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I also had the voting point that you left out. And one of those posts had literally nothing to do with you and was about smith, iirc.
No one has been able to tell me why those posts from vedith are not necessarily scum indicative so yeah, that is a case when combined with the voting history. A case which no one has been able to tell me is wrong and scum were ignoring hoping I'd go away so I'm pretty sure I'm right here. The fact that Vax ignored it right up til now is further proof.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Jokes with votes while pretending they're the real reason is for RVS.In post 3128, Vaxkiller wrote:
Jareed hates jokes. Check.In post 3104, JaeReed wrote:DEO wagon had Vax having an awful jump on with a "bought your vote" comment in response to Titus saying Math bought drinks.
"Pressure" votes this close to deadline is a vote to deadline lynch the person.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I don't feel any emotion behind the omgus. How are you reading it as town?In post 3132, Postie wrote:The OMGUS feels vaguely town but dear god both of those posts are pinging the fuck out of me.-
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I feel Vedith was grandstanding when interacting with S_S, didn't vote a major wagon D1, and D2 voteparked on Lycanfire.In post 3141, Creature wrote:Why he's scum?
Unless you want me two walls about it that's the gist.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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So lack of survivalism. That could be town-indicative.In post 3145, Postie wrote:
Because you're obviously not going to be lynched so it seems silly for him to vote there if he wants to survive. Could just be bad scum though.In post 3142, JaeReed wrote:
I don't feel any emotion behind the omgus. How are you reading it as town?In post 3132, Postie wrote:The OMGUS feels vaguely town but dear god both of those posts are pinging the fuck out of me.
Are you actually against the lynch because of it?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I feel like you're trying to communicate a scumread to me but I don't quite understand who it is
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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It is? I'm so damn confused lol.In post 3231, Postie wrote:Oh. Claiming your shot is slightly more excusable then.
What's your read on Alisae?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I want thoughts from KTS and a little time to look through Kuroi's voting patterns and reads, along with who resisted and went along with the Vax wagon and who kept telling me I didn't have a case, but my vote will probably end up sheeping on zef at this stage unless I find something else that seems like a smoking gun to me.-
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His end of day stuff is all going to be wifom. Probably better to look at earlier associates.
What's the smoking gun on zef? Everything from the start of the push on DEO? Or do we have associative stuff too?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Urgh I'm gonna do a RachMarie and talk about my life. I don't own air conditioner nor do we have ceiling fans in this house and it's 89 degrees F here with 63% humidity and I just....Normally I don't hate the heat but this is awful q.q
pedit oh that's better than my news lol-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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DEO isn't scum and the more you try to push it the more I want to policy you. I agree with Titus on that.
VOTE: zefiend-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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No, I've already said it just like I'd already presented my case on Vax and you were one of the ones ignoring it. So no, I'm not playing parrot with you.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Yes, they are. So right back at you.In post 3259, drealmerz7 wrote:you're not obvious town, get over yourself-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I don't have the patience to deal with this again, drealmerz, I really don't. I have few reads I have absolute confidence in and if you shoot in them I'm going to be extremely pissed because it's autowin otherwise the way I see it.
Either play like the town vig and don't shoot obvtown, or be lynched because you want to play the equivalent of a serial killer shooting at random. At this stage it is incredibly anti-town to shoot in the townblock.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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If I were telling you my TOWNblock I would have said TOWNblock. That's my DON'T SHOOT THESE block.In post 3286, drealmerz7 wrote:that's a horrible "townblock" imo
creature has been MIA and fishy as fuck, GE while apparently NAI for his absence, still doesn't get anywhere close to a TR for me, muchless such an assured one to become a "townblockee"
I have no interest in shooting you or postie
Creature is fine. He offered no resistance when I asked him to vote Vax and Vedith was clearly trying to buddy him on D1. Alisae is good enough for now with Postie saying she's more likely to be town than not since they would have had a PT to sort each other overnight, and I trust that Alisae is an easy enough read having been in her first newbie not that long ago.-
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Absolutely not the same, don't sass me =P I'm just aware of your play and that it's easy enough to read at this stage still.In post 3289, Alisae wrote:WOWIE MY PLAYSTYLE IS EXACTLY THE SAME TO MY FIRST GAME OF MAFIA ON SITE EVER!
Sure. It's anti-town to shoot in that group of people, but I don't necessarily read all of them as town with 100% confidence. My townblock and "don't shoot these" blocks overlap but are not the same.In post 3290, drealmerz7 wrote:so your don't shoot these block is different than your townblock? can you explain how? I would think they'd be pretty much the same?-
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It was bad. That said, I don't think Creeps knows what's AI and what's not.In post 3292, Alisae wrote:Anyhowz Senpai (Jae), I would like to remind you that le Creeps (The person FA replaced) was on every big wagon.
Your thoughts on 422?
What's your point about the big wagons, and why are you bringing him up at this time?-
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My opinion is wifom end of day shit after he was hammered. I don't like trying to read known wifom. I'd prefer only looking at the stuff from before he was screwed and probably felt he was in a good enough position to help his partners.
Also, Creeps didn't jump ship onto the Lycanfire wagon, so he hasn't really been on every major wagon.-
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There's no such thing as "just" observations. You were trying to imply it was scummy, yes? I don't see it. IIRC DEO has also been on every major wagon and they're a townread of mine so...In post 3295, Alisae wrote:Just an observation on the wagons part.-
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Mixed. I meant to reread during the night but got lazy/depressed and played steam games while drinking instead.
Gamma had both good posts and bad posts, and I'm aware he's lynchbait as a general rule. I wanted to try and sort whether Vedith was protecting a partner or whiteknighting town with his defense of Gamma and discredit of Shadow_Step when he interacted about it but I never got around to it.-
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Now back to this question, and don't answer it with another question. I want a proper answer.
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Drealmerz claims to have not had a shot last night to use.In post 3305, The DEO wrote:If Drealmerz wasn't blocked that means either he shot someone who scum shot or the target was BP/healed or he is just scum claiming vig. Once maybe but twice...Drealmerz needs rope.-
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You still didn't answer my question. What do you think my read of you means?In post 3306, Alisae wrote:I know, I just wanted to know your read on Gamma.
And see how I feel like it was lazy? You weren't really sure about your Gamma read but you're sure about mine after Postie said that I'm town.
And now I'm in your townblock.
I mean, it's cool that you TR me, but the jump from "Gamma gave me mixed feelings about the slot" too "Alisae's slot is town" is strange and awkward.
Hell, I didn't even say much and you gave me a TR basicly because Postie said they thought I was town? Like, wat.
I trust Postie's ability to read you at this point in the game.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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I've played with Postie before and I definitely believe she is highly competent, yes.In post 3309, Alisae wrote:I mean, you must have A LOT of trust in Postie's judgment if you feel that way.-
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I'm asking for your analysis of what that could mean for my alignment.In post 3316, Alisae wrote:
A. tbh I don't really get what you're asking ;~;In post 3312, JaeReed wrote:
You still didn't answer my question. What do you think my read of you means?In post 3306, Alisae wrote:I know, I just wanted to know your read on Gamma.
And see how I feel like it was lazy? You weren't really sure about your Gamma read but you're sure about mine after Postie said that I'm town.
And now I'm in your townblock.
I mean, it's cool that you TR me, but the jump from "Gamma gave me mixed feelings about the slot" too "Alisae's slot is town" is strange and awkward.
Hell, I didn't even say much and you gave me a TR basicly because Postie said they thought I was town? Like, wat.
I trust Postie's ability to read you at this point in the game.
B. Fine-
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For the record part of my role is I'm informed a neighbourhood exists for those who experienced great loss, so I can confirm that a hood for this does exist in the game. I've been informed of this from the start, not able to see the neighbourhood or join it or know who is in it though.In post 3321, drealmerz7 wrote:it's a "loss neighborhood" btw - for those who died an early death-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Ok, so you're positing I'm scum with Vaxkiller?In post 3320, Alisae wrote:That either you're probably scum trying to blend in with what's going on or you're town that just trust their townreads.
Might be another option but those are the current two that are in my silly head atm.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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See, I really want to be like "yeah vig Klingon" but I actually caused town to lose by pushing a vig to do that in Shadowrun and I misread Klingon the only other time I played with her before that... I have an absolutely terrible track record at reading her so I'm just gonna leave that up to others to chime in on whether it's a good vig shot or no. I think her lack of participation is NAI and I believe she's been giving KTS thoughts.
Speaking of KTS... What were his thoughts after those flips?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Hm ok. I need to work out which of my townreads are wrong.
What do you think about Vedith voting drealmerz like all of D1? My theory is he was trying to get a lynchbait wagon to happen. Also what are your thoughts on the way Vax reacted with Gamma saying he had too many townreads? And thoughts on his non-stance of Creeps20 where he said he didn't seem like scum then as soon as FA replaced in gave a townread there?-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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Oh.. I hadn't noticed that DEO didn't vote zefiend.
I don't know. I feel like scum!Math wouldn't have used Postie's defense of their personality outside the game making it impossible for Math to have gone after Lycanfire in the way they did while knowing he's not groupscum. I think Math wouldn't want the win tainted by something like that if they were scum so probably wouldn't have wanted a read on them to be based on it.-
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JaeReed Jack of All Trades
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