Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[The DEO]

For the record I townread Nero but what can I do about it? I posted in the PT and Titus agreed and now she's doing moon logic with what she agreed made Nero Town as a "good point" as scum logic. I have 0 idea how to proceed except state Nero town read and try to lynch Yuri and hope I get NK'd which if scum aren't idiots won't happen.

~~Math

You grab me on Skype and do what I need you to do to try and get on the same page. Me asking questions won't stop this lynch.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Yay a quote for no context thread post game.

Oh no Math made a joke they must be ridiculous and juvenile.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Will ISO Nero overnight.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Yuri is at L minus 3 Creature

[The DEO]

If Titus and Math get on the same wavelength I'll puke rainbows
Rainbows are fun hehe

-Nebby

Yes they are.

I exude rainbows constantly.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Will ISO Nero overnight.

Why not now?

Because I would rather watch Stephen Colbert on YouTube and do something fun rather than ISO a townread and try to think about how Titus is pushing Nero for things she agreed were townNero.

~~Math

[The DEO]

then why agree to it?

Because while I am an obstinate stick in the mud I am listening to A&N and trying to figure out their concerns. Just like they are doing with me. Especially since they are not screaming I am confbiased or an idiot or toxic. They actually give a damn.

~~Math

[The DEO]

You and I both know most "a lot of scum say this" is garbage, and so does ABR. Town say things too like that. It doesn't warrant that strong of a reversal

If you disagreed with his reasoning fine but to sit there and say that he gave no reason is a flat out lie and I'm not sure why a towntitus would ever do that.

It's not a reason. We can play semantics as to what defines a reason, but we both know what ABR posted is garbage. Why are you deflecting from that?

[The DEO]

If it was such garbage how come you weren't campaigning to lynch him?

Because my hydra partner is screaming they are town and I'm not a total asshole. But since they don't appear to be cooperative and the lynch is in, fuck it.

So, why are you still deflecting? Do you think ABR's play is acceptable?

[The DEO]

yes

In what way is ABR's play acceptable? Help me out here. I see the glaring inconsistency and zero attempt to solve the game and that's not ABR as either alignment.

[The DEO]

I see the glaring inconsistency

I don't.

and zero attempt to solve the game

I can maybe agree with this. I am most likely biased since I think A+N is scum and thus I like his vote. I mean he hasn't done anything 'cause he hasn't been here. Is he posting it up elsewhere while ignoring this game? If so then sure ok he can die. Is he tactically lurking to avoid the game? Well how would you know?

that's not ABR as either alignment.

So why are you so certain he's scum?

I don't know. I'm aware of the gamestate and I'm aware of play that doesn't make sense, regardless of ABR's alignment and I see a vote that works for scum and I want to investigate further. As far as I know, this is the only game ABR is in, so I can't even use the meta you described. His profile has last visited "-" which means he presumably acts on invisible mode. I don't know, but I do know what I fear is my townreads eating themselves alive while obviously scummy plays or lack of plays happen.

We've got Caesar who basically has done nothing but point at people and yell FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! That bullshit of we want to change our name so we are not going to post is utter garbage as well.
Ooba is going to get replaced over the night phase.
ABR not being ABR even though I gave him a free pass to use the one word he disdains if he told me what his reads were is avoiding the thread entirely. And the glaring about-face/inconsistency doesn't sit well with me (I view it as an inconsistency but we'll agree to disagree).
We got Maxous just being Maxous and just leaving when the pressure's off.
PV being the token oppositional person but kissing ass to town.
Spiffeh tunnelling.

Like just what the fork man? How the hell to sort that? I get an idea that scum's in there but man help a woman out here.

[The DEO]

@Drixx, I will need you here. Jsyk.

@Spiffeh, I guess and check theories as how I think. My apologies if you are town, but I will filter through possibilities regardless of the flip. I rarely do that, but I respect you as much as a player to do that.

Can you comment on the list I posted?

[The DEO]

There's probably at least 2 scum within the lurkers

That is {ABR, Leonshade, Caesar Wills It, ooba, ssbm_Kyouko}

Aeroaut not posting in Caesar Wills It is a huge red flag and they need to be taken care of very soon if he continues not participating.

Still think Maxous could be scum, I don't really see a reason why people are town reading that slot. beeboy too obviously. I already know what biting quips I will say tomorrow in the event that Yuri flips town but all things considered I do believe he has a decent chance of flipping scum.

Hey, I am going to try something new ish to have you reach me. I think you know where I am at. Do you care to try guided questions to steer me toward where you are?

@Drixx, Take your time. For now, we just pray the priority rng is with us. You're my person. I need you at your best, not at your rushed. If you feel deadline pressure, an incomplete dump is ok.

[The DEO]

Or are you protecting ABR?

How is not giving the reasoning for my reads protecting ABR?

I don't even know half of your reads. You know ABR likes to control. You know ABR has an ego. Where is he? Waiting for us to implode right?

Yet, you are allowing him the excuse of doing jackshit and not giving reads by refusing to give reads and tell me where the fuck I am right or wrong when availing myself and giving you every excuse to give reads on every slot.

~Titus

Tbh considering the pace of this game I wouldn't blame someone for seeing the thread blowing up and be like

Ooba I get, but most of those players can handle this.

[The DEO]

Who are your nulls of the active players and why can't you sort them?

~~Math

[The DEO]

And I still want a believable Vecna case.

~~Math

[The DEO]

props to math for the cool question

Ewwww this reeks of buddy.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Daytalk I always feel is the best PR bar none. In Shadowrun where JaeReed is not so subtly referring scout and I used daytalk extensively to our advantage. Even though I never got a break from posting it let me remain consistent and strategize with scout. A couple of times I even told scout when to pivot and he proofed stuff I did.

Daytalk is useful if utilized by the scumteam.

But overall, it is so useless that it is now standard to include it in games, where it used to not be standard in games.

Do you agree that in this gamestate depending on who rolled scum daytalk has potential to be used to devastating effect?

So who are your "red"s?

~~Math

[The DEO]

Ignore the quote phone malfunction.
The question is to Elbrin.

~~Math

[The DEO]

LUV that isn't an agenda. That is just being town.

Nebby sure. How?

I guess make an ascii board?

~~Math

[The DEO]

Cool! Who do you want to go first?

~~Math

Fyi we are lynching Yuri but this is fun so yay! #makeMafiaFun2017
#AkaneAndNebbyTownMVPSupporter

[The DEO]

Oh yay! A not standard board and I go first You know how to make me so happy
Column D please and spoiler future boards while we talk. (Assuming column A is the left most column)

What are your reads assuming Yuri scum and then a second set assuming Yuri town?

~~Math

Pedit Nahdia wins apparently Nevermind XD

[The DEO]

Who are you scum reading and why?

Nebby, I can only do one person at once. No multiple professors. That doesn't work IMO.

@Spiffeh, When I scumread players, I'm looking for agendas/motivations that do NOT coincide with the town wincondition. Behaviors that do not match a town wincondition suggest an agenda that does not match a town wincon or an unwillingness to help town. Identifying town and looking at what's left over is my better town games, provided I do not succumb to pride and foolish errors.

So the list I posted is the list of people who I think fit that agenda. I'd compromise on Soham and Notice. Soham because Gerry is much more anti town than MariaR and I'll always have a small paranoia spot after PyP and I think MariaR would say the feeling is mutual. I liked MariaR's responses to my questioning before.

The series of behaviors that I have laid out, minus Math and Nero, I feel are the most damaging to the town with the current flips as they are. I don't really know how you catch scum, but at some point it's just time to test whether we're right.

[The DEO]

a list of items to be discussed at a formal meeting.
"the question of nuclear weapons had been removed from the agenda"
synonyms: list of items, schedule, program, timetable, itinerary, lineup, list, plan, to-do list; trademarkdaytimer
"the next topic on the agenda"

Lynching scum is a definition of being town.
Planning to take away town power.
Planning mislynches
Destroying town by doing X,Y,Z those are agendas.
Agendas require specific items to do in a list.

If you said lynching scum by doing A,B,C and A,B,C were specific then yes that would be an agenda. Town doesn't do that. They find scum they make their passionate heartfelt case or some a Snarky case of bringing the pain on scums and win or lose by their words. Mechanics get close to giving town agendas but unless the game is 100% broken which Nahdia wouldn't do town don't have agendas. The thing Mafia has so many Town beards where Mafia made a plan called Humans Reference and Town stuck to it.

I am all for mechanics when it is clear who a towb n is or someone can be scumfirmed. Taking away abilities that allow some of the best game solvers in the game to do things like Titus PV and Drixx is remarkably antitown. Find the scums that voted none that didn't want Titus to solve this game. Going too much in the weeds too early gives glossy looks but you don't deny a Town Jailkeeper because it might accidentally hit town. That is just not a thing.

~~Math

Pedit and Sondham and Notice are town. I will put the vote back on Yuri if you vote anyone else at this point as we need a lynch to end the day from hell.

[The DEO]

Those aren't a to do list and aren't in a specific order. That is not an agenda.

An agenda is "I think none is the best for Town so anyone disagreeing must be scum". That is how the first 11 pages went down. Scum rammed none down our throats. You were either complicit or scum.

Barring a conf!scum status (like lying about powers or being a liar) picking something to push before day started is an agenda. Coming into this game with a plan in mind is an agenda. I lynch people with agendas who exclude people. I am a tunnelly asshole but I am an inclusionary tunnelly asshole. Excluding and lynching unpopular opinions barring confirmation results in lynching Town more often than not: See the "How Not to Town" guide that is on the wiki. Making a decision someone isn't townie enough to be in a town block cuts off all sorts of avenues you could have had. I may be insane I may be unpopular but almost always there was a grain of truth.

Take PyP my reads were shit. But I was right scum were manipulating the town block into mass claim when it was unneeded.

Pushing agendas and Town creating "unlynchables" only works if you are right. And on D1 I won't bet the farm on someone else being right. I am an opinionated asshole but Townblocks only work if you either have mechanics to back it up or are masons

~~Math

Pedit: Halle freaking luyah

[The DEO]

Notice is not town.

lol town!LUV is stuck in a tunnel.

-Nebby

I agree about the tunnel just disagree about LUV's alignment.

~~Math

[The DEO]

@Math: We have a different definition of the word.

Excluding people who are in their own world is not an agenda, it is just a simply way to make the game healthier not only for me but for everyone else involved. Pushing agendas and declaring people off limits for a day or until the game is over on D1 can work if you give people space and room to operate. I was given that with Yuri because no one bothered to step in and we're now one step closer to lynching scum because of it.

That is the exact problem I am talking about.
Mafia is not a popularity contest.
The game isn't healthy by forcing group think putting down others and squelching opinions that you think are "not of this world". I think Notice is town. Am I stopping you or putting you down for making a case? No.
What makes a game healthy is when we respect each other as people and then let each person have their vote.

Consistently you have doubted people's ability to game solve, thrown shade, rammed your ideas down people's throats without listening to feedback. By the time I was online it was a clusterfuck of people outright lying that none is better. That isn't listening and doing the protown thing. It is getting shit done in a hurry because of being scared and passing it off as consensus.

Healthy games don't exclude they don't berate they just are.

I miss those days.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Talk to me about LUV and how that comes from a town player.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Yes please I would like that meta.

The meta I have from LUV is that he lurks hard as Town. I would love a meta where he doesn't.

12 hours is not enough time to hear from everyone and we none voted in less than that.
Anyone who thinks they listened to every person's opinion or asked for it is deluding themselves.

~~Math

[The DEO]

[The DEO]

I thought we were friends already...
;~;
/me cri

-Nebby

We are. I just don't want the block falling apart. So levity music!

~Titus

[The DEO]

Most games are ongoing.

But if you feel you have to make an apology for inactivity you are lurking.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69244&user_select[]=28406

Will read the other games later.

~~Math

92 is a shade post and partially why I scumread LUV. It is a negative post that shades the entire game, suggests we won't lynch scum and that if he doesn't get what he wants right now the world ends. It is less than 100 posts into the game. Way too early for doomsday scenarios.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I thought we were friends already...
;~;
/me cri

-Nebby

We are!

Hug brigade!!

~~Math

[The DEO]

@Math No. IRL are things. I go to school and work.

I don't lurk, I always replace out if I'm not interested in a game and I find lurking as scum cheap.

Never said it didn't have a valid reason. I am just shocked you're active. I will read the new meta and see if it changes my mind overnight.

Nero no. I don't shut up. I hunt through talking with people.
Titus already did a post ban once because I didn't give her what she wants.

If her town block was right it could take pressure no problem. Don't lament a townblock dying figure out the concerns about it and why they are/aren't valid and analyze the responses. In PyP it was right. It withstood the pressure this one isn't. Shadowrun'S stood up. This one didn't. I hate town blocks but if they are bad and I am allowed to pressure they fall apart.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Hey Elbrin,

Notice is on my compromise lynch but Math doesn't want them roped. I'm open to my interpretation of Notice being wrong. If it moves the game forward, I'd do it. If I'm wrong on Yuri, I'm there like a heartbeat. Vecna's town.

Nero I get but people who are skilled that have bass ackwards reads and don't care to pressure lurkers wind up in my willing to lynch pile.

Basically if my townreads I'd be sure wouldn't fall against each other due to word vomit paranoia, I'd be thrilled. Yet Vecna doesn't TR Drixx for starters. A and N is targeted by scum.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Hi. I see your whining about being caught.

You going to actually contribute yet? You know, say who is town, push scum. Explain your contradiction. Or are you just going to claim big bad Titus?

~Titus

[The DEO]

Yup, ok, I left the door open for you to tell me just how bad I was and to set the town straight on reads. You got nothing more than crying.

We're done here.

We're lynching ABR tomorrow.

~Titus

[The DEO]

ABR is salty Town over Shadowrun. Leave him alone. If I remember right he said if I was ever townread I would be a policy for him.
ABR do you have a question for me or just want to tunnel?

~~Math

No we aren't.

[The DEO]

Math, talk to me in our hydra but you excusing shitty play because you think you have the game solved has to stop yesterday.

~Titus

[The DEO]

It isn't because I have five other scumreads. ABR is genuinely Town for following through on his policy lynch threat and not posting anything remotely useful. He did the same in Shadowrun. Annoying doesn't mean scum. It is shitty play. Doesn't mean scum. From a newb or anyone besides Nero or ABR it would.

~~Math

[The DEO]

That's a prebuilt justification for him to act in a proscum manner. You're giving him carte blanche to ignore the fact we are universally townread and do jack shit. That doesn't work. You don't help town. You die. If you cannot handle if someone is town, you shouldn't be in a game with them.

This sets aside that ABR shouldn't even be in this game because he agreed to not join any games I was in. *shrug*

If ABR cannot be protown, he dies. He can try to tell it as baggage/drama/aliens hijacking his brain. It doesn't matter. Do not EVER make excuses for a scumread publicly.

~Titus

[The DEO]

I am not. ABR can be protown. I just realize he is different than me.
He finds things he believes, says quirky one liners about it, then pushes it until he either sees A) they are Town or B) lynches and gets a flip.
He did the exact same with D&D.
ABR can and will be protown and as much as he scumreads us then it is still protown so others understand we are Town. I have no problems with him hunting is.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I'm never going to catch up at this rate, someone tell me why I should vote Yuri.

We're a Day 0 cop and Yuri came back as a Barbarian Village.

Seriously, day is too long. Yuri is a buddy storm. 1387 that's the post.

[The DEO]

I am not. ABR can be protown. I just realize he is different than me.
He finds things he believes, says quirky one liners about it, then pushes it until he either sees A) they are Town or B) lynches and gets a flip.
He did the exact same with D&D.
ABR can and will be protown and as much as he scumreads us then it is still protown so others understand we are Town. I have no problems with him hunting is.

~~Math

Here you are, creating a fucking narrative for him rather than actually talking to your hydra partner and letting him post.

This doesn't help anyone see ABR as town, particularly coming from you since you're confbiased to hell. ABR has to do this himself.

You defending everyone who you don't want lynched isn't persuading anyone. It's just lengthening the game and stopping town from reaching our own conclusion.

[The DEO]

davesaz replaces ooba!

Welcome. Just hammer Yuri.

We're all VTs.

We need this game in night phase. Please davesaz.

[The DEO]

I am not. ABR can be protown. I just realize he is different than me.
He finds things he believes, says quirky one liners about it, then pushes it until he either sees A) they are Town or B) lynches and gets a flip.
He did the exact same with D&D.
ABR can and will be protown and as much as he scumreads us then it is still protown so others understand we are Town. I have no problems with him hunting is.

~~Math

Here you are, creating a fucking narrative for him rather than actually talking to your hydra partner and letting him post.

This doesn't help anyone see ABR as town, particularly coming from you since you're confbiased to hell. ABR has to do this himself.

You defending everyone who you don't want lynched isn't persuading anyone. It's just lengthening the game and stopping town from reaching our own conclusion.

I have talked with you about my reads on Skype. I have spent hours making a post your way and quite frankly it is exhausting. I have tried to do those things and because I didn't agree with your town block you post banned me. I will not let you lynch someone I had town read. Your solution to hunt ABR is me not posting. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if ABR voted us because you don't want me to mess up your precious plan like in Thing Mafia.

Plans suck. You can ask questions but know I townread Notice Beeboy Nero and ABR. And Leonshade. And I will defend my townreads.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Hi davesaz!

~~Math

[The DEO]

I am not. ABR can be protown. I just realize he is different than me.
He finds things he believes, says quirky one liners about it, then pushes it until he either sees A) they are Town or B) lynches and gets a flip.
He did the exact same with D&D.
ABR can and will be protown and as much as he scumreads us then it is still protown so others understand we are Town. I have no problems with him hunting is.

~~Math

Here you are, creating a fucking narrative for him rather than actually talking to your hydra partner and letting him post.

This doesn't help anyone see ABR as town, particularly coming from you since you're confbiased to hell. ABR has to do this himself.

You defending everyone who you don't want lynched isn't persuading anyone. It's just lengthening the game and stopping town from reaching our own conclusion.

I have talked with you about my reads on Skype. I have spent hours making a post your way and quite frankly it is exhausting. I have tried to do those things and because I didn't agree with your town block you post banned me. I will not let you lynch someone I had town read. Your solution to hunt ABR is me not posting. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if ABR voted us because you don't want me to mess up your precious plan like in Thing Mafia.

Plans suck. You can ask questions but know I townread Notice Beeboy Nero and ABR. And Leonshade. And I will defend my townreads.

~~Math

This is why we need to die. Math is going to defend everyone who isn't Vecna/Frogger/Uzi/Spiffeh/Yuri. This prevents scum from being held accountable.

[The DEO]

Long-time civ player checking in. Interesting mechanics to say the least.

If you don't mind I'd prefer to be able to at least skim a few pages before lynching. And decide if I want to bid...
I was literally getting ready to walk away from the computer and go to bed when my email pinged with the PM from Nahdia.

Pedit: Hydra dissonance?

Ridiculously bad.

There are a chunk of obvtown slots in the game. Math thinks they're all a scumteam and is blocking discussion of anyone else and everyone dislikes them here but I cannot get them force replaced, to reconsider, or leave the hydra and they're blocking me sorting anyone to see if they are right.

Our only mutual scumread is wagoned right now for what's evidenced in 1387

[The DEO]

See. This is why it is hard to work with you.

Multiple people see Spiffeh+Yuri.

It isn't just "Math is only saying those 5 people and that is it." I have a theory and I am pushing it.

Pretty sure I am not disliked as a person and multiple people scumread Vecna as well.

You can complain and make sweeping generalizations like you did when I suggested MoI scum but that doesn't make it true and only makes it harder to work with you so I have to post here to make sure my reads are heard.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I have made multiple if I am wrong theories about who scum could be. The Math is toxic or begging me to quit is downright crap. I joined this hydra to learn and have fun. The only thing I have learned is if I don't do what you want you insult me.

~~Math

[The DEO]

omg how many times are people gonna reference that same damn post and not my response to it

Because your response is even more horrible and people will see it after reading that post.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I wonder if DEO's hydra dissonance is just scum theater. Titus and Math having a lot of disagreements is believable, but making it so public could be a deliberate move to make the thread unreadable.

I would be skeptic of anyone else townreading me thus far, but I can see it with Math. I looked their reasoning up in their ISO (three pages, jfc) and Math has actually picked up on one of the key differences between my scum and town games, I'm much more cautious as scum.

lol because I am hunting and trying to solve the game

Another person who sees I am not crazy. Hoorah.

Do you have a question to sort me?

~~Math

[The DEO]

how is anyone gonna see it, this game is 100 pages long. you should link it to someone if you're linking that one already. and if it's horrible then link it as evidence smh

Best people read your response in context and don't take my word for it that it is a horrible post.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I have faith people will.

~~Math

Going to bed. Won't be on til late tomorrow.

Peace out. Lynch Yuri before I am back please.

[The DEO]

The short sleepy version is because time zones.
When the game is at his speed JaeReed is okay.
He exhibited (in a small way) freakout over how fast the game was.
In this one none was chosen before he could even speak. Having no agency in a game is demoralizing.
Furthermore he is hydraing with Mastina. Mastina doesn't fake slips and would never ask him to.
JaeReed is honest to a fault. That is who he is. I feel bad for when JaeReed does drawn scum in a game I am Town and has to lie to me.

~~Math

[The DEO]

The Shadowrun game*

[The DEO]

You wanna answer who you can't sort and why?

~~Math

That hasn't been touched in your ISO.

[The DEO]

I do care. Just you asking brought it up and I am getting ready for bed now. I was giving you time to "get home" I figure a few hours is enough time:

~~Math

[The DEO]

mmk. well i have nullreads on a lot of the game due to me being better at reading people while chatting w them in real time, and the lil batch of lurks, so is there someone(s) specific i can focus on?

Give me one person you are unable to sort who you have interacted with and why.
And if you don't have any give me a list of everyone you have interacted with followed by a dash and the alignment you "read" them as no reasons required.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Hydra dissonance. I don't believe in saying anything bad about anyone but I definitely can't say it is a productive hydra.

Sleep spell taking hold.

~~Math

[The DEO]

You die. If you cannot handle if someone is town, you shouldn't be in a game with them.

I take it irony isn't your strong suit.

Insult my reads, not my play. Like even use that one word I hate, go after my reads.

[The DEO]

More and more im getting the feeling that Titus might be onto something.

What if it indeed is as simple as it appears and we have a very strong townblock that is already on the right track? And we have our aims set on a number of scum allready.

There is a lot of desire to dissolve our little alliance here, even though the people that try to attack it have no scumreads in the block (maybe some of em have 1 or so).

Im leaning towards a scumteam of Yuri + Notice + Maxous here, with the addition of some people maybe that are not very active and maybe 1 deep undercover scum that is hiding in plain sight among us (or maybe even none of the last category).

Like, ive never seen so much attacking of my day1 scumteam theory. Maybe because ive never been correct about them day1....but this feels like unnatural opposition.

I think were/im on the right track.

I agree with everything but your conclusion here.

I think Notice/Maxous might be outside town, rather than scum because they are transparent about opposition. Like Math is. Does Notice think that voting you will help their standing in the town? No. Does it endear town to them? No. Would I like to be reached out to? Yes. Do they buddy me and try to get me to dissolve? No.

I think Notice and Math are being fueled by Caesar. Caesar hasn't explained a read, but just said they SR you too, just when I was making the point no one did.

[The DEO]

NMS feels town honestly

This game is nowhere near toxic

JaeReed is town.
This game is very frustrating to play when I have to fight for my right to post. Other people having to read it because my sister dictates I don't post because I don't agree with her aka "splintering the town block" is just not smart play unhealthy for the hydra and the game as a whole.

By letting me post my opinions we are seeing people make comments on slots that were previously uncommented on. This was a huge problem in Thing Mafia. People who went along with the human reference were Town and anyone who said that the plan sucked namely myself got mocked for it. We are now seeing who scumreads and townreads the slots in the original suggested block.

Mind you that block from Titus had Spiffeh. And if Yuri flips scum then people suspect Spiffeh or at least think that needs investigation. A slot does not and should not agree on a plan and limit themselves to only talking about certain people. Titus could be 100% right. But being told that I am not allowed to attack certain people because that is who she townreads and is in her block is crap. Trying to bully me into quitting is crap. Post bans are crap. These playstyle decisions make the game difficult to play. If I am insane then I would be getting 0% traction. In PyP scums didn't want to touch my crazy I was that bad.

What a hydra does do is discuss things and say "Hey I think X is town because reasons." I did that. I will also express my thoughts in thread.

However as we do not and cannot have two votes this discussion towards manipulating me and Titus into saying who is the more mature one or whether actions towards me are toxic or whether I am immature or juvenile are not conductive to a fun game. We are one slot that just disagrees heavily on reads. I have my opinions as to what is going on but poking me or my sister about what is going on doesn't help Town. You can have your opinion about our hydra. Scumread it or town read it but please stop going down this path.

For as much as Titus infuriates me I love her and I will not scumhunt her as I know we are both Town and I will not attack her only the play decisions she is making and I would much rather that be on Skype.

~~Math

Now I am going to Shadowrun and killing things.

I have seen no one talking about LUV and Frogger except finally A&N who said they are probably town.

If you think anyone in Vecna/LUV/Frogger/Spiffeh are Town please explain me why so I can review it overnight. When I suggested it in 800 getting instantly attacked and then having people see the possible Spiffeh+Yuri connection means I am onto something or there is extreme buddying.

Similarly the lines are falling along those groups for who does and doesn't want Notice lynched. There are patterns here and I think scum can be found here. Either Titus or myself are being buddied hard core here. It becomes a matter of finding out which.

[The DEO]

More and more im getting the feeling that Titus might be onto something.

What if it indeed is as simple as it appears and we have a very strong townblock that is already on the right track? And we have our aims set on a number of scum allready.

There is a lot of desire to dissolve our little alliance here, even though the people that try to attack it have no scumreads in the block (maybe some of em have 1 or so).

Im leaning towards a scumteam of Yuri + Notice + Maxous here, with the addition of some people maybe that are not very active and maybe 1 deep undercover scum that is hiding in plain sight among us (or maybe even none of the last category).

Like, ive never seen so much attacking of my day1 scumteam theory. Maybe because ive never been correct about them day1....but this feels like unnatural opposition.

I think were/im on the right track.

This scum team is crap unless you are willing to say your own arguments are crap.

This is literally everyone who suspects you.

You and Frogger both made points that you don't think it is likely all four of you would pile on a lynch/mislynch.
So unless you think all three of those are buddying me in my scumread of you and trying to vote you all at once then either you need to reevaluate your scum team or rescind your opinion that scum wouldn't all pile on a wagon.

If you are town re-evaluate please because I think that Notice and Maxous are town.
Maxous as scum has 0 reason to defend JaeReed here as the Notice and Spiffeh and if Titus wants ABR are getting pushed tomorrow. That defense would be super obvious. Them being the same scum team doesn't make sense.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Mathblade get Titus under control, her bias is telling, and not in a good way.

Unvote

No. I don't believe in controlling anyone.

Did you fucking read?

I just said not to do this shit.

Stop pissing me off. I am going AFK.

You hopefully will respond to Titus as she has a right to hunt you.

I townread you but Titus deserves a chance to read you.

I will never say Titus can't poke at someone. She may have to do it over my objections but she has that right.

I will never try to control Titus. She does as she likes.

Just because I townread you doesn't make me right either. Pretty damn sure I am but that doesn't mean I shut Titus up.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Mathblade get Titus under control, her bias is telling, and not in a good way.

Unvote

What biases do I have? What do they tell?

[The DEO]

I'll only respond to mathblade from here. Titus is coming after me right out of the gate over past butthurt.

Fine.

Titus I give you uber special permission to put

~~Math

for any post you want ABR to answer while I am at Shadowrun or give me what you want and I will ask aBr.

This division between me and Titus stops. We are one slot treat it as such.

You will respond to Titus or I will approve any post she says if I have to.

[The DEO]

My response is you will respond to Titus. Everyone deserves a right to play. I think Titus is wrong but answer her question.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Vecna, if our large townblock is correct, scum will shade like ABR has.

ABR has basically said that there's something rotten in the townblock, but I will never say what it is or why. Yet, he'll vote it.

Give Drixx a chance tomorrow if we die. He finished a gueling difficult game as scum.

~Titus

[The DEO]

I guess ABR was solving the game, right?

Creature, Math is coming around to ABR's play being anti-town and being wrong based on ABR's play. Please do not antagonize.

[The DEO]

Anyone who sr's Notice after what there posting needs a huge reality check cause that slot is obv af town also I don't think people really care for that townblock if people are trying to shade a townblock out of frears that's lol
~Maria

Who is your block? Did you do what I asked?

[The DEO]

I guess ABR was solving the game, right?

Creature, Math is coming around to ABR's play being anti-town and being wrong based on ABR's play. Please do not antagonize.

Antitown yes.

I think he is a Town w/ assholey play.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Give Drixx a chance tomorrow if we die. He finished a gueling difficult game as scum.

There she goes making assumptions this game based on results from previous game with no relevance. What an ineffective pattern. Possibly pushed by scum.

VOTE: DEO

What assumption did I make?

[The DEO]

Anyone who sr's Notice after what there posting needs a huge reality check cause that slot is obv af town also I don't think people really care for that townblock if people are trying to shade a townblock out of frears that's lol
~Maria

Who is your block? Did you do what I asked?

I need a block? Also I told you I'm doing it with Gerry and repentantly he's coming on tonight so you shouldn't have to wait long.

No but I read that post as you viewing yourself and notice as part of a townblock. Sorry if I misread.

[The DEO]

Give Drixx a chance tomorrow if we die. He finished a gueling difficult game as scum.

There she goes making assumptions this game based on results from previous game with no relevance. What an ineffective pattern. Possibly pushed by scum.

VOTE: DEO

ABR you can't seriously expect this to be a thing where you vote is and then expect to never talk to us.

Not only will you get no traction there would be no conversation as everything you ask would have to be handled by someone else. You can either respond to Titus while I am at Shadowrun or admit you can't talk to us or admit you can talk to us through a scum intermediary and I was wrong on you.

Now I strongly doubt the latter. Stop this weird play and post questions and talk with Titus while I am AFK.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I'll proudly lead the anti-DEO coalition for the remaining days before the hammer as I have only skimmed the last dozen pages and have no reads.

Definitely town ABR to not read.

Annoying as fuck but definitely Town ABR.

Titus and ABR figure your shit out while I am AFK.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I don't want the negativity Mathblade. You can let me play my game or get in my way.

I am letting you play. I am just informing you that without communication it is going to be very difficult to
A) Get a read on Titus+me since you said yourself you have no reads
And
B) If I am wrong you and you do scumread us for some reason you have to post posts. Posts Titus will respond to.

That makes my post true. You can't lead an antiDEO coalition with 0 posts describing what you think.

~~Math

[The DEO]

So for everyone else, I'll explain. Titus has been tunneling me for the past 3-5 games (can't remember exactly) for hundreds of pages at a time, basically until we both get endgamed. We constantly lose. I have adopted the strategy of ignoring her for the past 2-3 games and I think she needs drama in her life so she always comes back. I don't want to reward that kind of toxic behavior. In every game we are in I always give her a chance and she chooses to target me out of a field of 25-30 players and it got old quick.

Why join this? We have an agreement to avoid each other. I tried avoiding you, but you've done jackshit but this cloak and dagger opposition to me.

I tried to get the mod to WotM you, but no dice.

You need to do shit. Tell me where I am right. Where I am wrong. Saying exclusively that I am the bad guy doesn't work.

[The DEO]

Is Albert Binstein usually like this?

Read the scum PT for Cyberpunk or Dragon Age mafia.

Regardless of alignment, he puts down those who disagree with him and belittles those who suspect him.

In Dragon Age, I defended him Day 1. I was wrong on Nero though.

[The DEO]

Regardless of alignment, he puts down those who disagree with him and belittles those who suspect him.

Differences between alignments?

The lurkiness is abnormal for both.
You should really see the scum PT for Cyberpunk. It's pretty clear that ABR has no business in a game with someone he views like this.

[The DEO]

Why join this? We have an agreement to avoid each other. I tried avoiding you, but you've done jackshit but this cloak and dagger opposition to me.

You join every 20+ large game. I haven't played a game in 6 months trying to avoid you, Titus.

I'll replace out of this game if you /out of the other large game in queue and join that one.

I don't bargain with players who ruin games as they are ruining them. You can PM me and we can discuss future games, but I cannot change my ins because you linked my alignment.

[The DEO]

I really wanted to play with ABR aswell I heard so much about him
~Maria

Trust me. This is a good thing. If he cannot be bothered to give reads with me present, it's clear he wants to pick on people, not play mafia.

[The DEO]

I really wanted to play with ABR aswell I heard so much about him
~Maria

Trust me. This is a good thing. If he cannot be bothered to give reads with me present, it's clear he wants to pick on people, not play mafia.

Why misconstrue the truth? I ignored you completely and voted A&E. I was busy for a couple days, I come back and apparently you're "100% convinced" I'm scum, just like you were for the past 5 games.

That's a terrible misrep. You won't give reads. You're spamming after leaving and just opposing me point blank. This is policy. I haven't even voted you. You're trying to make me into a villian rather than play the game.

Reads or jyst stop fucking posting.

[The DEO]

I really wanted to play with ABR aswell I heard so much about him
~Maria

Trust me. This is a good thing. If he cannot be bothered to give reads with me present, it's clear he wants to pick on people, not play mafia.

It's good the conflict is over I agree hopefully we can focus on more pressing matters?
~Maria

Like Caesar?

[The DEO]

I don't develop reads at the game start. I'm careful about throwing accusations until I'm certain. You know all this.

There's 3,000 posts, a town consensus lynch, you worked much faster than this in Dragon Age and Saga. Cut the crap.

[The DEO]

We can just lynch ABR tommorow.

Thank you.

[The DEO]

I don't develop reads at the game start. I'm careful about throwing accusations until I'm certain. You know all this.

There's 3,000 posts, a town consensus lynch, you worked much faster than this in Dragon Age and Saga. Cut the crap.

Oh yeah, Dragon Age where you campaigned to mislynch me for two days straight. Or Saga, where you campaigned to mislynch me for five days straight. You never change.

On d1, I defended you in Dragon Age.
On d2, there was a scum redirected guilty on you.

If you're going to paint me as an evil asshole get it right.

[The DEO]

I hate the "oh we'll just lynch him the next day no biggie!" Line up lynches more ty
~Maria

So do I, but ABR's play is extremely anti-town and I can actually vote him if the mod doesn't force replace him. If it's anti-town, refuses to change, it dies.

[The DEO]

I will never ever vote an anti town player over someone I think is scum and neither should anyone else
~Maria
Pedit: Because I'm a 5 shot day cop.

This is the approach I had for ages. Then policy lynches were forced over my objection and town started winning. Take SU 2, we policied Math with an all town wagon, and then wrecked scum but for RR, who got eliminated in lylo.

Sometimes, a player must be policied. I have been the victim and I do them. Do I like them? Fuck no.

[The DEO]

Sodham/LUV, please take chill pills.

~Both heads

[The DEO]

I don't cooperate with people who piss me off. Ask nicely and I'll happily answer.
~Maria

Please answer me snookums?

Do you know ABR is town? If so why?

[The DEO]

That and the way Caesar is posting isn't helping. It moves them toward the policy side in my book.

I got too many of those.

[The DEO]

I'm not even a policy lynch supporter really, (think i supported it one other time) but I'd seriously consider policy-ing Caesar

EBWOP

I'd flashwagon it but Math would kill me.

[The DEO]

ABR, do you TR Yuri, or are you just not wanting to be on a wagon with me?

Vecna, Does Nero still get good boy points if I am right?

[The DEO]

yes

In what way is ABR's play acceptable? Help me out here. I see the glaring inconsistency and zero attempt to solve the game and that's not ABR as either alignment.

Question; why dont you apply this VERY SAME metric to Drixx? You know, the person that has posted -twice- since the resolution stage?

His pyramids play is gamesolving and if I am wrong, neuters the scumteam.

ABR is just being an ass.

You didn't answer my question. If my reads are correct, what do you think of Nero's interruption? You instead said I was wrong.

[The DEO]

I'm 40 pages behind and it looks like I may not get to catch up. I just wanted to apologize. Now that it's over, I can point out that I was in hydra as last scum in a Varsoon large theme trying to pull out the win against all odds, and it was eating up a lot of time. I sincerely apologize, as when I signed up for this, I expected that game to end much more quickly than it did. Won't be inactive going forward (although holy crap nearly 3k posts on day one).

Ah ok, this makes sense then.

Still not gonna forget everyone mindlessly townreading your slot so hard though without any reasoning provided.

I've been providing reason. You just haven't been listening. Drixx just finished a scum game where he tried to bribe me with power (SU 2). It didn't work. He's not doing that again, and neutering his whole team without daychat.

[The DEO]

Creature, vote Yuri or quickwagon Caesar. Ty.

[The DEO]

VOTE: beeboy

Guys this is a good point to cite in the "Yuri Spiffeh connection case"

I just made the beeboy wagon viable again in an effort to save my scumbuddy Yuri

Go nuts

This is not going to work. I don't want beeboy. I don't feel good about a scum flip there.

You don't want Yuri, vote to take out Caesar or useless slots.

[The DEO]

beeboy is my largest scum read and I want him lynched

That is why

Well great, come back later when you're wrong and actually listen to your townreads.

You know why LUV suspects you? You are putting your own opinion above your townreads rather than picking a mutual read.

[The DEO]

{A+N}
{DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Vecna, LUV}
{Drixx, Spiff}
{Creature, Nero}
{ABR, davesaz, ssbm} <-- null line
{Caesar, Sondam, Leonshade}
{Notice}
{Maxous}
{Beeboy}
{Yuri}

Why is PV so high?

Because I townread him.

I don't see scum motivation, even if he and Titus are butting heads.

Why are you town reading him so strongly?

Because he's making sense

Examples?

Making sense is not a reason to townread someone. I make sense as either alignment if I am in the right state of mind. (Insert ABR objection so he doesn't have to post)

[The DEO]

Can I have a quick case on Beeboy?
No reaction to my assertion that Creature's "activity" is nothing more than baseless "opinions"?

Playstyle not AI. He's pushing for what he wants. He's town, you're town.

[The DEO]

We're going to create a town block. Spiffeh. Fro99er. Daveasz. Peregrine. Maxou. A few more spots are open, don't miss this opportunity!

Sorry ABR. You and Peregrine are out. The block is already formed.

[The DEO]

You know why LUV suspects you? You are putting your own opinion above your townreads rather than picking a mutual read.

You were in The Thing, Titus.

Welcome to my town game. This shouldn't be a surprise to you.

And either way, I resent that. I listened to the Yuri case and agreed with some of the points. I understand the suspicion there. But Yuri's recent posts come across as pretty town to me and beeboy has always been my preference so I'm voting there instead.

Don't try and guilt trip me because I don't have the utmost faith in my town reads. I never do. I don't care if that makes me a selfish player, it's just how I am.

I don't suspect you and I am not guilt tripping you. I wanted you to address than and the fact ABR is playing to your ego and trying to divide this townblock we made.

The best thing for this town is that we speak in one voice. We don't go after each other and we leave no room for antitown voices.

[The DEO]

Because right now ABR is trying to turn town against itself and he dies it every game by acting like he is the best, regardless of his PM.

[The DEO]

Not doing Bee today.

Agreed.

[The DEO]

I wonder if DEO's hydra dissonance is just scum theater. Titus and Math having a lot of disagreements is believable, but making it so public could be a deliberate move to make the thread unreadable.

I would be skeptic of anyone else townreading me thus far, but I can see it with Math. I looked their reasoning up in their ISO (three pages, jfc) and Math has actually picked up on one of the key differences between my scum and town games, I'm much more cautious as scum.

Could also be town theater to avoid getting nkd.

It's not theater.

I would take being lynched over beeboy because I do not want ABR dividing this town.

[The DEO]

I didn't make a town bloc

I never agreed to one

I've been endgamed many times by players in a town bloc I had created so there's no way I'm committing to one on Day 1.

You don't agree to be in one. They are just blocks of players that TR each other. That's why ABR saying he's making one is scummy as shit.

[The DEO]

Because after expressing multiple scum reads and basically having the post amount to "fuck it I'll do anything" is just really weird to me. Like in the current state of the game I just don't understand why you would ever consider something like that unless you were scum seeking survivability especially when the A&N Lynch was actually really viable (and a scum read of Yuri's) starting some random af vanity wagon just seems so out of place for a town mind set.

This doesn't make sense to me.

If Yuri was just looking to survive then I find it way more likely that they would keep their vote on the viable A&N wagon instead of vanity wagoning Vecna. Yuri looks like town who doesn't want his scum reads getting away after he's mislynched.

I agree with this partially but I have boned scum.

[The DEO]

And to be clear, beeboy voting Yuri isn't scummy

What's scummy is the bullshit and blanket justification he attaches to the vote that made no sense when he explained further.

No. It isn't. You are tunnelled.

[The DEO]

Could have ended yesterday too and we would've now been one day closer to Day 2

Yes. So I am trying to get Spiffeh on board with a third wagon because you two fighting each other sucks as much as lynching beeboy.

[The DEO]

I am ok with that but Spiffeh has to be too. Otherwise, we derail a good wagon for nothing.

[The DEO]

ABR, are you willing to do Caesar?

[The DEO]

Also I hate how the Caesar's fluff posting.
So I wouldn't be opposed to it.
Plus I have questions for them.
-Nebby

Vote them.

[The DEO]

VOTE: Caesar

Sorry Math.

[The DEO]

Or we can wait till Pine is forced to replace in for the hydra and start playing.

Fuck that noise. Pine has been playing with Aero's approval, as documented by the name change.

[The DEO]

Piss off

Then stop saying things that are wrong

Dude, I get you think you're right on beeboy and lots of power to you if right. Is it really worth this though?

[The DEO]

Titus that wasn't in reference to anything about beeboy

I know. Right now, you are dividing the town and a divided town loses games. Stop letting ABR kiss your ass, work with Uzi, even if you TR Yuri, help. Teamwork. I am trying here.

[The DEO]

We're taking over Rome my dudes!
CHO CHO!
VOTE: Caesar Wills It
-Nebby

Look how quick they unvote from Beeboy. This isn't town, it's nervous scum. I called it.

The only thing you call is your ego. They want they day to end. So do I.

P.S. Draft Zeus. Aim it at me please.

[The DEO]

I know. Right now, you are dividing the town and a divided town loses games. Stop letting ABR kiss your ass, work with Uzi, even if you TR Yuri, help. Teamwork. I am trying here.

I really don't know how this is so hard to grasp.

Nothing I am doing is opposing team work. Beeboy is a viable wagon. Beeboy is my largest scum read. Beeboy is my vote. I explained why I town read Yuri's recent posts.

Uzi's the one with the idiotic scum read on me. What do you mean work with him? I cannot be more obvtown than I'm being now and anyone questioning that is delusional. He seems set in his ways despite HIS town reads town-reading me. Why don't you get on HIM about team work?

Beeboy isn't viable. The only players voting with you are scum, lurkers and people playing to your ego. The rest of active town doesn't want Beeboy.

[The DEO]

Fro99er and A&N agreed with me on beeboy so that is just completely wrong

A and N is wanting the day to end.

[The DEO]

Scum will night kill me because they will never be able to get me lynched and I had soft a PR a while back.

Why are you saying you softed?.

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

WHO SOFTS IN THIS GAME

wow.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Stop it. There are no PR roles on either side.

[The DEO]

Scum will night kill me because they will never be able to get me lynched and I had soft a PR a while back.

Why are you saying you softed?.

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

WHO SOFTS IN THIS GAME

wow.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I sympathize with this.
-Nebby

Why? All he's doing is trying to promote town fighting. Us v beeboy, us v you, lil v spiffeh

[The DEO]

I'll compromise on creature.
Kinda sick of him scumming this thread

Why won't you vote Caesar? You think he's town?

[The DEO]

Scum will night kill me because they will never be able to get me lynched and I had soft a PR a while back.

Why are you saying you softed?.

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

WHO SOFTS IN THIS GAME

wow.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I sympathize with this.
-Nebby

Why? All he's doing is trying to promote town fighting. Us v beeboy, us v you, lil v spiffeh

Because LUV's reads and his play today is really baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
Not scummy bad. Just baaaaaaaad.
-Nebby

No. It isn't. They're ego centric and wrong but not bad. Luv wants out. He cannot get his major scumreads lynched. So he tries to draw a bullet.

[The DEO]

I'll compromise on creature.
Kinda sick of him scumming this thread

Why won't you vote Caesar? You think he's town?

I don't mind the role-playing but pine IS making himself hard to read regardless.
Which is a little scummy

Then do it. We need a day end.

[The DEO]

Everybody who scumreads me:
Albert B. Rampage
Maxous
Nero Cain
Sondam
Vecna

Am I missing someone?

That's a pretty town list tbh

Scum Creature doesn't say town are scumreading me when town are trying to coalesce.

[The DEO]

Maria still has a fake read me on and that recent vote was just a vote from someone who was looking for a wagon that would gain traction.

Under that theory, Caesar is a buddy and you should vote there.

[The DEO]

Not doing Caesar either.

My picks today are ABR, Leon, Notice, Spiffy, and Yuri.

Dude, unless you think you caught the entire scumteam, you need to be a little bit more expansive than that. This is the same issue we have with Math.

Yuri is the only name on there that has any shot AND I'd die to lynch ABR just to protect town.

[The DEO]

I don't think the semi-townbloc will coalesce on noticemesenpai either

I'd do it but Math has them as their biggest townread, so we won't.

[The DEO]

{A+N}
{DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Vecna, LUV}
{Drixx, Spiff}
{Creature, Nero}
{ABR, davesaz, ssbm} <-- null line
{Caesar, Sondam, Leonshade}
{Notice}
{Maxous}
{Beeboy}
{Yuri}

Excellent, I think id only swap around 3 of those people, and maybe rearrange the top slightly.

Glad to see we continue being of very similair mind.

I'm not

I want

ABR, Casear, Sondam, Yuri, Nero, and Maxous all below null. Rest I have as above null.

[The DEO]

Caesar isn't going to go through, it will get to about 7-8 and then people will get annoyed they still aren't here.

Yeah it will unless you do attitude like this.

Lazy town will hammer it, unless all the scum are lazy folks.

[The DEO]

{A+N}
{DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Vecna, LUV}
{Drixx, Spiff}
{Creature, Nero}
{ABR, davesaz, ssbm} <-- null line
{Caesar, Sondam, Leonshade}
{Notice}
{Maxous}
{Beeboy}
{Yuri}

Excellent, I think id only swap around 3 of those people, and maybe rearrange the top slightly.

Glad to see we continue being of very similair mind.

I'm not

I want

ABR, Casear, Sondam, Yuri, Nero, and Maxous all below null. Rest I have as above null.

Forgot SSM as null sorry.

[The DEO]

Lazy town haven't hammered anything and I doubt they will hammer Caesar once they wake up.

We had scum by the balls and now we have to wait another 4-5 days for what? A policy lynch? A no lynch?

So your option is to what? Vote town? That you know isn't getting hammered. Same with half of your other reads.

By plugging your ears, you're being just as bad as Math is.

[The DEO]

VOTE: beeboy

Guys this is a good point to cite in the "Yuri Spiffeh connection case"

I just made the beeboy wagon viable again in an effort to save my scumbuddy Yuri

Go nuts

This is not going to work. I don't want beeboy. I don't feel good about a scum flip there.

You don't want Yuri, vote to take out Caesar or useless slots.

I disagree with this, Yuri or Beeboy will give a lot more information for a lynch and I think its about time to hammer someone.

Then we do Yuri but people need to quit being primadonnas just because ABR encouraged it.

Beeboy is indeed town so.. I'm not rewarding ABR's play by voting him just to get a lynch though.

[The DEO]

I'm not trying to block out I'm just frustrated that Yuri got derailed.

Then revote Yuri.

[The DEO]

{A+N}
{DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Vecna, LUV}
{Drixx, Spiff}
{Creature, Nero}
{ABR, davesaz, ssbm} <-- null line
{Caesar, Sondam, Leonshade}
{Notice}
{Maxous}
{Beeboy}
{Yuri}

Why is PV so high?

Because I townread him.

I don't see scum motivation, even if he and Titus are butting heads.

Why are you town reading him so strongly?

Since me and frogger are vibing quite well id say im just going to answer this as well.

PV has the exact same observations and questions that are in my mind, and he's always there right on time to ask them. A very town-oriented mindset that id think is very hard to fake.

Really, then why hasn't PV ever voted Yuri scum? PV sounds nice, but is always opposed to town in the end.

[The DEO]

cute fake hammer but i want real blood alisae. also i have more material

There's no way scum doesn't take the opportunity to fake a town reaction to the fake hammer at this point. Especially since scum!Yuri has nothing to lose from trying it.

Dude, then vote Casear. Beeboy has had plenty of town reactions too.

We are not turning against each other.

[The DEO]

I read that already and it's null. I flavor like that all the time.

Dude, you flavored like that in Cyberpunk as scum.

[The DEO]

Can we lynch real scum Luv or are we gonna keep up this circle jerk we have going on and just lynch town Yuri the fact the bee wagon is hard semi worries me aswell makes me think a lot of scum aren't getting votes
~maria

Then vote Caesar.

[The DEO]

He's committed to posting fluff and flavor, he won't be pressured to change, we will only waste our precious time. Maxou is town, has been calling for Beeboy before even you or I. His reads are on point.

Just like your slot was in Cyberpunk right?

[The DEO]

Can we lynch real scum Luv or are we gonna keep up this circle jerk we have going on and just lynch town Yuri the fact the bee wagon is hard semi worries me aswell makes me think a lot of scum aren't getting votes
~maria

LUV is not an option today.

There literally isn't enough support in the game for it to happen right now.

What the fuck are you talking about? We have 9 days what do you mean not enough support we can legit wagon anyone in the game
~Maria

No. There's something called rthym and timing. Many slots are hard TRing LUV and will not change their minds without a flip.

LUV is not getting lynched today.

[The DEO]

We can wagon you until you shut up.

No. We are not turning against ourselves. Stop it LUV. I get this is frustrating and many people want my way or the highway.

@Math, this right here is why your way of thinking is dangerous.

[The DEO]

I wish myself Titus and Spiffeh could work together

But Titus won't agree to Beeboy and spiffeh won't agree to anything other than Beeboy.

The three of us can lead town today if we just find common ground

Like I said, I'm willing to work with Spiffeh but until Spiffeh realizes the ego play that's been going on around him, he's just going to insist on Beeboy. I'm open to revisiting that if wrong, but beeboy's probably town here.

[The DEO]

What the fuck are you talking about? We have 9 days what do you mean not enough support we can legit wagon anyone in the game~Maria

+1

Game just started 4 days ago, we can run up anyone we want.

You know when I talk about buddying Maria, this is it.

[The DEO]

I took a page out of Ali's book and showed him how reaction testing is done. I got what I wanted and I'm sure one of ABR or Sondam is scum.

ABR is probably. He's buddying the FUCK out of people who are dividing town right now. Buddying Math until they insisted ABR talk to me, Buddying SPiffey with beeboy push, buddying the people pushing A and N rather than answer for his bullshit, buddying MariaR/Spiffeh with a LUV push. ABR has one goal. It's to divide town.

[The DEO]

But my read is fake LUV right!

It is, you confirmed it when you just voted for me again a while ago.

My read on you was never fake and the way you keep saying it is in a way to discredit me is laughable I don't even know where you got that idea
~Maria

Maria stop this. You're thinking that no one can think you're being dumb. He's in denial about your reads being bad.

[The DEO]

this should have been over 60 pages ago. There's prob scum in the really active posters. There *might* be scum in the "lurkers" but all of this "we need to pressure lurkers!" feels like a distraction.

I agree with the first part, but ABR derailed the Yuri wagon.

[The DEO]

ABR is town

@Frogger and Titus

I really don't know what your issue is here. I think you're both town. You can wagon Caesar if you want, I've given you my opinion on that already. I want to keep the beeboy wagon viable. I've explained why I think it would be better for the day to end now but you guys can do what you feel is right. It's not like I'm opposing you at every turn, I'd even argue we've been on the same page for most of the game.

So I really don't know where you're coming from when you say I'm not working with you. I understand that you both think town synergy is important but if I think you're on the completely wrong track (as I do now with Yuri) then yes I will directly oppose you and explain why I think you're wrong.

That's not working with people to say my wagon or else. You don't "keep a wagon viable". The game does that, organically. Every tunnel I was in, I told myself, if I don't lynch this person, no one ever will. It persuaded like no one.

[The DEO]

But my read is fake LUV right!

It is, you confirmed it when you just voted for me again a while ago.

My read on you was never fake and the way you keep saying it is in a way to discredit me is laughable I don't even know where you got that idea
~Maria

Maria stop this. You're thinking that no one can think you're being dumb. He's in denial about your reads being bad.

He never said my read was bad he's saying it's fake big dif.
~Maria

Right. I'm saying your reads are bad. He's in denial about it, so he calls you fake.

[The DEO]

Working with people is about giving them what THEY need to come to the conclusions that they need to.

I was working with people when I voted None to avoid precisely this clusterfuck. I need townreads more than I need knowledge of future wonders.

[The DEO]

Exactly. The push on Ceasar is scum driven, 100%, and people are falling for it.

eh....its an ok push I think but I don't really understand why the people that were so sure that Yuri was scum are voting him but then I'm like half paying attention. Though I'd wager that there be scum in those that were voting Yuri and then switched to Ceasar, if any did.

Who?

[The DEO]

Alright.

VOTE: Beeboy

No. We are not helping scum divide town.

[The DEO]

titus please stop with that. assuming im town and beeboy is town then who the fuck is scum?? beeboy is my best shot. would rather vecna but honestly
and caesar is sort of a lame lurker lynch, uzi's right i doubt it would go anywhere in the end

Caesar and ABR.

[The DEO]

Maria Read list:

Albert B. Rampage Spiffeh NoticeMeSenpai

Yuri Nero Cain

The DEO

Maxous PeregrineV Creature

Caesar Wills It ssbm_Kyouko Dave Drixx

beeboy Elbirn

Vecna Akane and Nebby

Fro99er Leonshade

Lil Uzi Vert

Since it was on the bottom.

Why is Nero as high as he is?
Why is Drixx as low as he is.
Why is Elbrin as low as he is?
Why is Frogger as low as he is?

-Nebby

I've played with scum Nero and Town Nero and this feels like 1814 Nero (Town)
Drixx has done nothing not a single thing he became a Titus cheerleader and then went Mia so he's null
Elbrin's content is just bad not obv scum bad but it's just not good the only thing I would even to think to tr is his light bitching on posting
Frogg's attack on Yuri was BS his reason for not voting Luv is BS all I see from frog is BS

There's a reason I have Nero as not lock scum.

[The DEO]

DEO was on both. We can lynch DEO

besides the fact that its Titus and that's policy worthy in itself...the whole Math and Titus publicly fighting with each other is obviously fake and I don't see the town motivation in that.

And if this is town, that's why we can't lynch scum today. Nero is just going to be opposed to any decent wagon because I want it.

Math being an asshole has ego motivation, not town motivation.

[The DEO]

What is awful Yuri? Titus is like that every game as either alignment.

i know we have differing opinions on titus but any of her negative impact on games would not be done on purpose. if she's scum here she would be doing this (the cannibalism of her own hydra i mean) and knowing full well she was doing this and i really doubt it.

Nah she wanted to do it when we were hydra'ing as scum.

No. I wanted minor disagreement when we were scum because you and I having a joint readslist would stink.

You wanted me to be a total agreement minded player as scum, bus our buddies for no reason, and called them all [retarded]. The fact you didn't eat a site ban for that STILL amazes me. Dwlee pulled that game out in spite of you.

[The DEO]

Frogger is town because he's all over the place and that's how town!Frogger plays.
-Nebby
pedit: Kaaaaaay

There's a typo here.

[The DEO]

Or my reading sucks.

[The DEO]

Caesar and ABR.

ok these are both rly hard to work with, caesar i already said and ABR is def a problem between you two and not an alignment thing. not saying that makes him def town but it does mean i dont see a good reason for him to be scum or for him to be pushed

The problem is if both you and beeboy are town, then scum have sat on the sidelines hoping for town to eat itself and you get a lurker lynch.

[The DEO]

And if this is town, that's why we can't lynch scum today. Nero is just going to be opposed to any decent wagon because I want it.

You do know I was voting for Yuri? On one hand I'm like "ok Titus is just immature and lashes out at me since she's upset that I think her slot is scum" but then on the other it just fees like you just said something that's blatantly not true and I'm not sure why that comes from town you.

But then why shade me at all? You might be voting for Yuri, but you sure aren't really helping Yuri get lynched by shading me.

[The DEO]

The problem is if both you and beeboy are town, then scum have sat on the sidelines hoping for town to eat itself and you get a lurker lynch.

ok, going for a lurker lynch if both of us are town makes sense
why do you have such a big TR on beeboy btw? i dont see it

Because of ABR hard defending Caesar and buddying the fuck up to Spiffeh.

[The DEO]

Plus Spiffeh is demonstrating the total signs of town in a tunnel, regardless of accuracy of his read.

[The DEO]

Titus' definition of dividing town is not doing what Titus wants

Knock it off with that bs please

Not true. If you were actually voting scum, this would be easier. You're not. You're just refusing to give anyone the tools THEY need to succeed.

[The DEO]

If I'm buddying anyone it's fro99er. And if you say I'm buddying fro99er, don't forget to mention Akane Nebby doing the same thing.

A and N isn't lying to support their reads.

[The DEO]

Because of ABR hard defending Caesar and buddying the fuck up to Spiffeh.

what does this have to do w beeboy
dont like all the d1 associations. what im seeing from beeboy is his terrible response to when frogger grilled him for his reasons for moving onto my wagon. the reasoning didnt hold up but beeboy continued to defend and complain

The reasoning was never bad. People just label shit as bad to end the day.

ABR's lying here is what's bad. Nero's just confused.

[The DEO]

Because of ABR hard defending Caesar and buddying the fuck up to Spiffeh.

what does this have to do w beeboy
dont like all the d1 associations. what im seeing from beeboy is his terrible response to when frogger grilled him for his reasons for moving onto my wagon. the reasoning didnt hold up but beeboy continued to defend and complain

ABR buddies town to get town to lynch town.

[The DEO]

Fuck yeah I'm buddying Frogger. I'll go to the ends of the earth with him.
-Nebby

We find a lot of common ground, but if your words are your convictions are another matter.

The only common ground you have is lynching town.

[The DEO]

Blame everyone who wasn't on the Yuri wagon when he was at L-2.

What about those that derailed the Yuri wagon?

And that too, which is why Spiffy is probably scum.

No. Stop this. Stop this ego fest. Not everyone who disagrees with you is scum.

This is scum wanting us to eat ourselves.

[The DEO]

The reasoning was never bad. People just label shit as bad to end the day.

ABR's lying here is what's bad. Nero's just confused.

please im trying to talk about beeboy
i disagree i do think the reasoning wasnt good, and the whole interaction isnt good either. i might link to the start of it and have you read it again or s/t idk. and id like to know what about

beeboy's play

makes you townread them

ALL of it. They have good reads. They're just being offered up by scum. They didn't just attack you out of desperation.

[The DEO]

Now we're fighting over who is buddying frogger

This is ridic

You're my Frogger <3
-Nebby

Fro99er member when we won a large theme, lynched Titus, and won best town performance? Round 2 baby

Lol

We did kick some ass

Spiffeh was there too

And PV!

And drixx!

Yup and you realize what didn't happen. ABR never lied. Town never turned on itself.

[The DEO]

ALL of it. They have good reads. They're just being offered up by scum. They didn't just attack you out of desperation.

which reads were good? he voted Uzi, then akane, then myself. i agree with the middle one still but why do YOU like those reads? and pls dont tell me he had good townreads u know thats bunk in a large on d1

No. His reads right now. His early reads were shit.

[The DEO]

titus please stop with that. assuming im town and beeboy is town then who the fuck is scum?? beeboy is my best shot. would rather vecna but honestly
and caesar is sort of a lame lurker lynch, uzi's right i doubt it would go anywhere in the end

If Titus is town, she's going to die tonight and then you'll have me to contend with tomorrow.

How about you reset your read on me, and look at the world from that perspective?

Hint; im town, this is better for your chances to win this game.

No scum in their right mind kills me given the hurdles I have to deal with. I'm stuck here unless lynched which is why I'm not objecting votes on policying my slot, but I do object to bullshit shading my slot for being scum.

[The DEO]

No. His reads right now. His early reads were shit.

i asked which for a reason, could i please have legit example of which reads were good? im not in a position to go looking at beeboy's recent reads to figure out which ones you're talking about

pedit: im sorry frogger people are talking at me and i want to respond, i havent forgotten

Like literally ALL of them in his read wall.

[The DEO]

ok back to lurking.Lynch whomever you guys want. Though (just in case I die) if whomever gets lynched flips town you should totes consider lynching those that were on Yuri and then switched.

Or you could help me lynch Caesar and punish ABR for derailing the Yuri wagon with his refusal to vote it when he came in.

[The DEO]

@Frogger, Seriously, what do you take of ABR arguing flavorposting as null despite ABR only doing it in games like Cyberpunk as scum? That's an outright lie to defend Caesar who has done nothing. Why is this so hard to get your attention on? Because ABR cried and said personal? I'm not SRing Nero.

[The DEO]

I flavor posted in Dragon Age as town too.

Not to that extent. You made like one or two and not paragraphs on paragraphs buddying people by name.

[The DEO]

Everyone asking for my reads in various ways.

I've said Drixx, Maxous, Nero, Spiffeh, Vecna, PV and Fro99er are all likely to be town.
Vecna, and Fro99er just feel like they are genuinely solving the game.
Maxous' thoughts make sense and his pushes seem interesting to make if he was scum.
Nero is town cause meta
PV is also meta.
Drixx's entire play so far screams "investigate me no matter how I play" so he is obvious town.
Also I am pretty sure Uzi is town because his paranoia feels genuine and town and it doesn't really feel like scum who knows my lynch will go through regardless of how he defends me.
I also think the Aero+Pine hydra is town cause I feel like the push they made would be weird af to make as scum.

I am pretty sure my wagon has scum on it considering how long and hard I have been pushed by people, if Spiffeh and PV are town that leaves Creature (who I already think is disingenuous this game) and Kyouko (who I'd also still Lynch)
I am still really confident that A&N will flip scum so I give literally 0 shits about voting anyone else right now.

Titus are you talking about this? BC its a bunch of townreads and then a Creature scumread and a kyouko scumread. also an akane scumread which i guess you just called shit
like what is uber towny about this, and what do u agree with.

The town block is fucking flawless minus Caesar. The wrong reads are obviously townie wrong reads, like the A and N. I know it's unpopular but I SR them but I'm not going to be a dick and hold up the game approach. SSM is ok as a scumread. I don't have a read there yet because I read people by talking to them. It's like all townie.

[The DEO]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8172444

Yeah put your Cyberpunk fluff and Dragon Age fluff with Caesar's fluff. It'll be real obvious which one matches which.

[The DEO]

Fro99er any new ideas?? We've been going in circles. I gave you 4 names, you give me 3.

Let me stew on this.

The only agreement we have is Beeboy and I'm not quite comfortable with the fact that there are literally two halves of people scumreading each other

Explain this.

[The DEO]

ok back to lurking.Lynch whomever you guys want. Though (just in case I die) if whomever gets lynched flips town you should totes consider lynching those that were on Yuri and then switched.

Or you could help me lynch Caesar and punish ABR for derailing the Yuri wagon with his refusal to vote it when he came in.

The better punishment then would be to lynch ABR?

Won't go through as people will discredit it as personal bias.

[The DEO]

Elbrin how do you feel about Beeboy.
-Nebby
pedit: Wait I'm getting scumread by Titus now?...
...
...
That's awkward.

No. I was saying Beeboy's read was inaccurate but town.

[The DEO]

Fro99er any new ideas?? We've been going in circles. I gave you 4 names, you give me 3.

Let me stew on this.

The only agreement we have is Beeboy and I'm not quite comfortable with the fact that there are literally two halves of people scumreading each other

Explain this.

Sondam, ABR and your other head are scumreading myself, A+N, LUV, Vecna

There's probably a few other names in there I can't think off the top of my head and vice versa but my wife is slapping me that we need to go drink.

Have a double for me. I might just go get drunk myself.

Sondam is buddied by ABR.
No one else is seriously scumreading LUV.
Vecna has had lurker potshots at them.

We take out the lurkers and come back tomorrow.

Worst case scenario, doc heals you and scum tell us who has good reads.

[The DEO]

oh you phrased it wierdly and I got confused.
-Nebby

When I get frustrated, my writing goes to shit.

[The DEO]

There hasn't been even one game where Titus has not taken an antagonistic stance against me in any game we've had, which is many. She's out for herself. Her entire purpose in every game is to eliminate me because she hates me.

Nah, you're the one taking oppositional defiance disorder since go.

We want science. You imply you want Arts (Romantic) and vote none.
You vote our townreads consistently.
I scumread you for a lack of posts and an awkward read jump.
You come in and cry personal.
You then start turning my townreads against each other.
I try to get you onboard with Caesar.
You lie to protect him.
I ask you to put your Cyberpunk flavor with your Dragon Age flavor to prove it.
You cry personal again.

You want to work together. Give a possible scum lynch and let's do it. You should know my pool.

[The DEO]

Vecna talk to me about Beeboy.
-Nebby

I want to see its flip.

Scum flip; perfect, servers to sort a lot of allignments
Town flip; Goodbye ABR.

Thats pretty much how im seeing things. I dont care too much whether we lynch scum or town today. I want it to be informative.

Beeboy and Yuri both wouldve given us that. Beeboy now gives me more sorting power.

And that's where we disagree. We can hit scum and informative in Caesar.

A scum flip there damns ABR no?

[The DEO]

Yeah, I know i havent been on this site for too long but.....never seen a thread expanding like its trying to mimic the fucking big bang or something.

Nor have I.

What can I say, can't make cattle drink

If beeboy is getting lynched, we rewarded scum ABR for fucking lying about things again.

*shrug*

[The DEO]

Vecna talk to me about Beeboy.
-Nebby

I want to see its flip.

Scum flip; perfect, servers to sort a lot of allignments
Town flip; Goodbye ABR.

Thats pretty much how im seeing things. I dont care too much whether we lynch scum or town today. I want it to be informative.

Beeboy and Yuri both wouldve given us that. Beeboy now gives me more sorting power.

And that's where we disagree. We can hit scum and informative in Caesar.

A scum flip there damns ABR no?

But a town flip gives us very little.

Yeah it does, whiteknighting and VCA plenty.

[The DEO]

who tf is whiteknighting caesar
are you gonna say ABR cause ill scream i swear i will

ABR, Sodham, and everyone who says no lurker lynch.

So go ahead and fucking scream.

[The DEO]

Titus, I wanna get a lock on whether we can trust Spiffeh.

im not so sure as others.

he's been evasive. I wanna see if he's right.

I think beeboy is better for the town-block. And better to let us know if its membership is exclusive enough.

REally, the townblock isn't even ON beeboy for the most part.

It's SSM and PV voteparked ffs.

[The DEO]

yes im screaming bc thats not what whiteknighting is

Whiteknighting is a defense in the absence of reason. That's what most of the thread is doing right now.

[The DEO]

Titus you have a short memory. Every game where we are town you are convinced I'm scum and then I'm town. Nobody can ignore the facts like you can, it's a special skill of yours.

You still didn't answer the questions.

Fine, I'll grab your flavor posts myself so people can see that I'm not talking out of my ass. You're insistent on turning this on you v me despite implying that was a bad idea at start, you got it.

You have until I actually put together that Cyberpunk wall again.

[The DEO]

He's committed to posting fluff and flavor, he won't be pressured to change, we will only waste our precious time. Maxou is town, has been calling for Beeboy before even you or I. His reads are on point.

Caesar is a waste of time. Fro99er most of your list is acceptable to me, let's go after who we agree on.

this should have been over 60 pages ago. There's prob scum in the really active posters. There *might* be scum in the "lurkers" but all of this "we need to pressure lurkers!" feels like a distraction.

Exactly. The push on Ceasar is scum driven, 100%, and people are falling for it.

I flavor posted in Dragon Age as town too.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8172444

Town ABR

Subject: Dragon Age Mafia [Game Over]

Join: Feralden

Only true sons of Skyrim will join me. Skyrim belongs to the Nords!

Scum ABR

Subject: Cyberpunk Mafia [Game Over!]

With a mechanical fist bump to the giant bouncer, Bad saunters into the nightclub. As he moves through the gyrating crowd, who occupy around two thirds of the dancefloor, the LED lights strobe on the Ares Alpha assault rifle strapped to his back. Only members are allowed to carry weapons inside. If violence breaks out, members are favored to end up on the living side. Bad reaches the other side of the dancefloor and shoves two double-sided swing doors open and pours into the hallway like a menace provoking the stillness of the members-only section. He stops in front of another door. It's unlocked, but not unguarded. A machine gun armed drone springs to life as Bad enters the backroom. Its animated targeting system is a customary greeting for anyone purchasing weapons and ammunition from the Ka Fai family who run Club 88.

"Gearing up for another run?", asks Ermine Ka Fai, from behind a counter with barred steels enclosing it.

"No, not today, Mrs. Ka Fai."

Bad pulls out his PDA and places it squarely on the counter for her to examine.

"I need information on this kid."

"Yes...I recognize him. He's been here for the last few days, looking for rigger work in Hong Kong. He shows up at one or two. He goes by...Beeboy."

VOTE: Beeboy

Bad

Subject: Cyberpunk Mafia [Game Over!]

The head bartender walked by Bad's booth and motioned at the three shadowrunners seated with him.

"I believe introductions are in order!"

"Guys, this is Henry Ka Fai, he owns the joint with his wife. Henry, this is Dripping Goofball, our Matrix Security expert who flew in from Berlin, and Yosarian, our Face. We've been running the shadows for almost a decade together. You already know Titus."

"No, I don't remember."

"She was the drunk one after the Wuxing job. We had to get your sons to drag her out of the building after last call."

"I see", Henry said with a smile.

ABR in the scum PT of Cyberpunk

Subject: Corporate Headquarters

Roll with it guys. No serious pushes until page 20. Until then, make pushes, post your reads on players, probe for alignment-indicative tells. Don't complain about the absent players, actually, don't complain at all. Just look happy and excited to play, and non-committal.

ABR is defending Caesar when he knows Caesar is bad for town.

VOTE: ABR

[The DEO]

Posting flavor = scum. Got it. Thanks for enlightening me. Take your fake ass attacks outta here.

Posting paragraphs exclusive flavor is a huge difference and you know that. You wouldn't tolerate someone playing exactly from your scum playbook if town,

particularly in a divided town

. So either, you're just being an obstinate asshole or you're scum. It's 90+ the latter.

[The DEO]

k ill be REALLY HONEST in that i just dont understand the ABR case. he's always abrasive and i've literally genuinely scumread him as scum before. the only town he's attacking is titus, he didnt lynch me or push the lynch towards me when he had the chance, and he's pushing my scumread. like ur not getting me to vote fuckin ABR rn

ABR should be objecting to Caesar's pushing as scum because it's his style of posting and his scum strategy and he isn't.

[The DEO]

ABR should be objecting to Caesar's pushing as scum because it's his style of posting and his scum strategy and he isn't.

he quoted a bunch of flavour from towngames

He posts it in short bursts as town. He combined a few things to make it more look volumous. I did a selected sample. You can compare the two in ISO if you want a fuller picture. ABR would be objecting to this type of behavior if town because its his scumgame.

Don't rock the boat.
Try to pressure things but not really.
Post long flavor garbage that makes shit harder and easier to buddy by name.

[The DEO]

The doubt has been cast.

This wagon will either confirm it or clear them.

Win or loose, we still win.

No we don't. We lose a town and let ABR fracture us.

That's a huge loss to me.

[The DEO]

Drop da hammah on beeboys for the lulz and end this abomination

If we hammer Beeboy, it's JUST getting started.

[The DEO]

HAMMER BEEBOY

Never a boring game with vecna around.

How the fuck can you willingly lynch town knowing ABR and Caesar are scumfucks?

[The DEO]

HAMMER BEEBOY

Never a boring game with vecna around.

How the fuck can you willingly lynch town knowing ABR and Caesar are scumfucks?

I dont know anything.

Oh come on don't play semantics with me.

How the fuck can you willingly lynch probable town knowing ABR and Caesar are probably scumfucks?