Prophecy Mafia - Over

[Bookitty]

Hello, everyone.

In the process of reading the thread. I'll hopefully have something useful to say by the weekend.

[Bookitty]

In the process of reading this game, I noticed a couple of things that I thought merited some attention. (And yes, there's a pretty high spam/content ratio, but I don't really view that as a major problem.)

First, Tarhalindur. Pushes for random bandwagoning early, then starts votehopping. Nothing so scummy in that, except he also starts identifying scumtells for the rest of us:

Your extreme aggression in response to pressure is not only noteworthy, but voteworthy.

This kind of post = scumtell. (Scum tend to care that they are lurking more than town does.)

Being uncomfortable with being voted = MASSIVE SCUMTELL

That's actually a pretty big scumtell, coming from CKD.

In my view, trying to define scumtells for everyone is pretty scummy in itself, but this REALLY bothers me:

Also, I'm a bit curious why I haven't come under fire until now, especially since I've been acting in a way I consider scummy and CKD is in the game. Call it meta if you will, but failure to vote me when I'm being scummy isn't what I'm used to from CKD.

Why is someone self-admittedly acting scummy, and not being voted by the town? This at least deserves an explanation.

Additionally, Sir Tornado has posted nine times since the start of the game. I don't like this quote:

Wow... I can't believe how much the overall play sucks in this game. So far, we have a random bandwagon of 7 votes on a player, another player trying to clear the bandwagoners by invoking the too scummy to be scum WIFOM argument, and "Team Asshat" treating this game like a scumchat game. Playing like this makes me reluctant to want to participate actively, and although I will not ask for replacement, I refuse to post any more here until all you guys start playing seriously.

If you don't like the level of play, improve it. If you can't, then you have no room to complain. When someone picks up their prods, indeed, POSTS to say they picked up their prods, my first instinct is not to think they are dissatisfied with the level of play. My first thought is that they're scum trying to fly under the radar. And that's not going to work with me in this game, so I'm going to:

unvote; vote Sir Tornado

FOS: Tarhalindur

I expect to have some more analysis as the weekend progresses, but those were the two I found most scummy on a first read.

[Bookitty]

It is a toss-up on which is scummier, but I dislike Sir Tornado's play more.

[Bookitty]

Hmmm. If there's a possibility of Sir Tornado being replaced, I guess I will

unvote; vote Tarhalindur

as the other of my scum suspects.

[Bookitty]

I'm voting Tarhalindur because of this quote:

Also, I'm a bit curious why I haven't come under fire until now, especially since I've been acting in a way I consider scummy and CKD is in the game. Call it meta if you will, but failure to vote me when I'm being scummy isn't what I'm used to from CKD.

I don't feel that someone who is self-admitting acting scummy should be given a free pass for that by town.

[Bookitty]

Maybe I'm missing something important here, but why would you play deliberately scummy if you were vanilla townie?

[Bookitty]

Also, I'm a bit curious why I haven't come under fire until now, especially since I've been acting in a way I consider scummy and CKD is in the game. Call it meta if you will, but failure to vote me when I'm being scummy isn't what I'm used to from CKD.

He said he was acting in a way HE considered scummy. Hence my question.

[Bookitty]

I'm not opposed to lynching you, and whether you are scum or not, I won't feel bad about it. Your posts in this game have not been helping to the town

So if Flameaxe is town, you think it's a pro-town move to lynch him?

Honestly, putting forth a plan to lynch people regardless of whether they are town or not seems really scummy. I don't mind your criticism of pickemgenius's play, which I inherited, or your dislike of spam... but this attitude of cavalier lynching regardless of alignment is just flat wrong.

[Bookitty]

I was thinking of shifting my vote to Iammars for being guilty of exactly what he was complaining about (if you think that it helps discussion and makes the thread easier to read when you go off on a tangent about how one other player is probably not scum, but let's lynch him anyway because you dislike his playstyle, then you're flatly wrong). Derailing the thread by attacking someone regardless of whether they are scum is just a worthless waste of time in my opinion, and arguing about spam for endless pointless posts is also spamming the thread. Why make a case about something that was largely over and done with?

But then I was rereading, and saw this:

A combination of boredom and trying to draw out opportunistic scum (either through their support for my wagon or their lack thereof).

So if someone you don't like is ON the wagon, they're probably scum, and if they are OFF the wagon, they're probably scum. Keeping your options open much?

I like my vote right where it is.

[Bookitty]

I can see the evidence against Tarhalindur and FaerieLord, and while my vote is on Tarhalindur, recent posts by FaerieLord make it a toss-up which one is scummiest.

I'll be honest. I skipped the whole debacle between Iammars and Flameaxe. It's childish to say the least. You'll never agree, deal with it. You're both stubborn.

@Tarh. Why did you try to perform such a risky plan on your own? The town is here to help catch scum. I appreciate you being valiant, but I'm pretty sure you can see how reckless you are?

Also, I love the fact that you take your time to analyse before you post. You've been posting so frequently, it's a pity that the thread will have to live without you for a day...maybe even two. Though for heroic acts such as yours, I'm ready to wait this long!

This is either sarcasm in an attempt to distance from his scumbuddy, or some vain attempt to buddy up to Tar? Maybe because he thinks Tar will be lynched and knows he will turn up town? I don't know for sure, but it's very nearly voteworthy all by itself.

I'm not liking Iammars promising analysis and then not delivering on it, especially after his rant about how we should lynch spammers on principle. Need more content, please.

[Bookitty]

I'm not seeing Flameaxe as scum, but I can go along with Phate and Gorrad, based on a reread of their posts in isolation. While both were largely noncontributory so far, I think Gorrad comes off somewhat the worse of the two, so I'm going to:

vote Gorrad

[Bookitty]

Who told you that, Xpom Telo? And why would you take the word of anyone else, without knowing their alignment?

It's not been my experience that replacements do not have to read the game. That's how you come up with your own unique insights. Parroting back other people's insights isn't helpful regardless of your alignment.

[Bookitty]

Gorrad, you realise that we just lynched Tarhalindur for admitting to deliberately acting scummy? He said he had "reasons" too, reasons that he claimed were not dissimilar to yours. Why would you do essentially the same thing that JUST got a townie lynched, regardless of your alignment? This doesn't make good sense to me.

Additionally, what are "good" reasons for lurking? Do you think announcing that you're lurking and saying you're "happy to lynch or be lynched" are especially pro-town actions?

I can't think of a reason scum would be more likely to do this than town, though (please, someone, correct me if I'm wrong on that), so

unvote; vote Xpom Telo

because I really want an answer to the questions I asked him earlier.

[Bookitty]

I at least would like him to answer.

[Bookitty]

On a reread of Faerielord, I am pretty happy with my vote where it is.

[Bookitty]

Okay, Faerielord's first three posts are examples of active lurking. Promising contribution, but not actually delivering any. He later comments on CKD fence-sitting, but doesn't vote him... he provides NO content, while hiding behind a "playstyle" excuse. It's one thing to have an unhelpful playstyle, but he doesn't even vote...

He FINALLY looks at the game, and does some pretty shoddy vote analysis. Completely reverses his opinion on CKD, criticises UltimaAvalon, and puts FOS's on a lot of people. Admits to being lazy, admits to skipping large parts of the argument.

To me, this is probably the worst thing he says:

Do you really think I was playing the game? Jdodge asked me to replace, I said yes. I left it there to decay. Jdodge often asks me to replace, and I often do this :/

So Faerielord contributes next to nothing, apart from pushing the lynch on Tarhindalur (which I am not faulting him for, but which was a pretty easy wagon), and then Xpom comes in with the stated attitude that he shouldn't have to reread the game, and asking others to tell him what his opinions should be. When questioned about this, he reiterates his intention to stick to this plan, which looks to me like he's seeking guidance from his scumbuddies since he missed the nighttalk. (I could be wrong, but that's just such an unhelpful attitude, especially considering Faerielord's lack of useful contribution.)

Sorry for not posting more lately, but I've been extremely busy. I hope this was helpful in explaining my vote on Xpom.

[Bookitty]

Skruffs, what do you think of Faerielord and Xpom?

I don't agree with your case on Flameaxe. Have you seen him act differently?

[Bookitty]

In my experience it is.

[Bookitty]

This was my reasoning for leaving my vote on Xpom (my original vote was more to pressure him for content of his own). I can't speak for anyone else's reasons.

Okay, Faerielord's first three posts are examples of active lurking. Promising contribution, but not actually delivering any. He later comments on CKD fence-sitting, but doesn't vote him... he provides NO content, while hiding behind a "playstyle" excuse. It's one thing to have an unhelpful playstyle, but he doesn't even vote...

He FINALLY looks at the game, and does some pretty shoddy vote analysis. Completely reverses his opinion on CKD, criticises UltimaAvalon, and puts FOS's on a lot of people. Admits to being lazy, admits to skipping large parts of the argument.

To me, this is probably the worst thing he says:

Do you really think I was playing the game? Jdodge asked me to replace, I said yes. I left it there to decay. Jdodge often asks me to replace, and I often do this :/

So Faerielord contributes next to nothing, apart from pushing the lynch on Tarhindalur (which I am not faulting him for, but which was a pretty easy wagon), and then Xpom comes in with the stated attitude that he shouldn't have to reread the game, and asking others to tell him what his opinions should be. When questioned about this, he reiterates his intention to stick to this plan, which looks to me like he's seeking guidance from his scumbuddies since he missed the nighttalk. (I could be wrong, but that's just such an unhelpful attitude, especially considering Faerielord's lack of useful contribution.)

Sorry for not posting more lately, but I've been extremely busy. I hope this was helpful in explaining my vote on Xpom.

[Bookitty]

Hmmm... Skruffs, why are you voting Flameaxe for behaviour that is pretty typical of him, while excusing Faerielord for a similar reason?

[Bookitty]

Think he's referring to this, Oman.

So thats all the powerroles gone isn't it.

[Bookitty]

I want Oman to explain his earlier remark.

[Bookitty]

Oman, do you agree that the way you worded your question (and your laziness in not looking this up for yourself) could have outed the vig quite easily and that if someone else had done it, you'd have been suspicious of them for rolefishing?

[Bookitty]

Does it matter if he's incompetent, given that he's the last surviving power role we have?

And by the way, is anyone else out there?

[Bookitty]

Okay. Not sure why I'm bothering then.

[Bookitty]

I don't think Gorrad is scum. I'm pretty sure Oman isn't, based on his reactions. I was waiting for Lowell's analysis, but I think maybe a bit of pressure might help that process along.

vote: Lowell

[Bookitty]

Skruffs, as I read it, it's either/or, not a guaranteed modkill.

I have a town read on you so I'm not sure why you would want to quote your prophecies and be modkilled anyway.

[Bookitty]

You're suicidal town?

[Bookitty]

I just don't think Gorrad is scum. But with so few people posting at all, I don't see how any kind of decent case can be made against anyone.

Still happy with my vote on Lowell, still don't think Skruffs is scum either.

[Bookitty]

Yes, I don't have much to say; he's confirmed that my vote is in the right place. I'm just glad I voted Lowell early before the rush.

[Bookitty]

Why am I voting Lowell?

Originally it was to pressure him into giving promised analysis. That wasn't a vote to lynch; it was a pressure vote, but saying so then wouldn't have given any pressure. I didn't like his postings, but they didn't justify a lynch in my opinion.

Now I'm continuing voting Lowell because I didn't like how he jumped on a replacement for a much lesser offense than he himself was committing, and because of his laissez-faire attitude regarding the whole game.

[Bookitty]

I thought that was pretty obviously a joke? As in, shop now, avoid the rush...

[Bookitty]

If you turn against town and are involved in a mislynch, I'm pretty sure that the vig, if he knows that his side is automatically going to lose, is going to make sure that you also don't win. At least, I know I Would.

QFT.

Though I'm really nervous, because I have a meta that says that when Skruffs seems really really pro-town to me, he's scum.

Doing a reread.

[Bookitty]

Since when???
Town players usually get scum-reads on me. It's only mafia that really say I am town.

Fos: Bookitty

Since Big Love, where I was convinced you were town and you ended up being scum?

Short memory...

[Bookitty]

Okay. Here's the problem, as I see it.

The survivor is part of the uninformed majority with the rest of town. If his claim is truthful, Oman doesn't know who the scum are, or the town either, so he has no special knowledge. And right now the scum and Oman are one mislynch away from winning. Oman says he doesn't care who wins, and that part I believe. He can win as a survivor with just one more mislynch. So despite the fact that he says he would rather town win... at best he's neutral.

In his place, would you rather win with one more lynch, or extend the game longer and increase the chance of losing your victory?

We can't lynch Oman, and I guess, despite his comments about not caring who wins, that the vig shouldn't target him (the vig should target scum if at all possible), but we certainly should NOT take his advice on who to lynch. Given the way the game has gone so far, he'll win more quickly with scum than town, and he's likely to try to help that process along.

[Bookitty]

Okay:

JDodge is the mod.

Gorrad is dead.

Neither one is likely to answer.

[Bookitty]

People I am not willing to lynch:

Skruffs
Oman

I would consider anyone else, however. In my opinion, Lowell is acting scummy, but so was Sykedoc, and DizzyIzzy's plan to out the vig is just awful. The vig is the last real hope we have.

I want more discussion and some replacements before I am willing to put my vote on anyone.

[Bookitty]

Okay. I know what CKD is referring to by your "slip up", Dizzy. The problem is that it also caught a couple of other people, and at least one of those people turned out not to be scum. And I don't like this whole "If you're not voting ______ I demand an explanation" thing anyway. Why rush a lynch in that manner, especially in LYLO?

Dizzy, I'd like your opinion on why Sykedoc quit so abruptly and angrily. To me that's a worse scumtell than the one CKD is harping on, and while you can't know what he was thinking, I'd like some sort of response about it.

CKD, I'd like you to explain this quote:

lol, when in doubt and you feel like you are losing, insults?

Because I don't like the implication of that statement at all. What did you mean by "in doubt and you feel like you are losing", exactly?

[Bookitty]

Bookitty, what part of moron do you not think is an insult? I asked him 2 direct questions, and he insulted me and avoided the questions twice...so please explain to me how you dont understand that statement.

Bookitty your thought on Dizzy point that the "slip up" which he has yet to define, was mentioned in the mafia role PM?

I know what's mentioned in the mafia role PM, and I'm town. Gee, where could I have found that information, in an open setup?

And I agree, I hate insults and think they have no place in a friendly game of Mafiascum. I think Dizzy is way out of line with her insulting both you and Flameaxe. But that's not the part of the quote I was questioning.

Specifically, this part: "

when in doubt and you feel like you are losing

" does not sit well with me. What did you mean by that, exactly?

[Bookitty]

lol,

when in doubt and you feel like you are losing

, insults?

so for the record you have no clue what the slip up is and you dont want to comment on how you know it was mentioned in mafia role PMs?

if you are not voting dizzy, I want to know why.

You're denying you made this post?

[Bookitty]

Bookitty, I note you defense of Dizzy, did I say "and you feel like you are losing"?

I said when in doubt...DIzzy obviously didnt know how to answer my question, becuase they were avoided twice (once at the time I posted that)...so instead of answering the question, he insulted me..

Bookitty any reason you are putting words in my mouth and treating them like a quote?

lol,

when in doubt and you feel like you are losing

, insults?

so for the record you have no clue what the slip up is and you dont want to comment on how you know it was mentioned in mafia role PMs?

if you are not voting dizzy, I want to know why.

You're denying you made this post?

I still await an answer.

[Bookitty]

Your quoted statement seems nearly like scum gloating. That's why I'm asking.

Town is always in doubt; they don't know who the scum are, or if they're right about things. And in this game, town is in serious danger of losing. So your comments are very apt and on-target for scum to taunt town with. Your apparent memory lapse about having said it at all seems pretty convenient as well.

Did Skruffs say that quote was why he thought you were scum? I missed it, if so. That is not the main reason I'm suspicious of you, but it is not helping either.

About Skruffs' list: I am not sure about Dizzy as town yet, and not sure about the lurkers (I want replacements and more evidence there -- I do NOT want a lurker lynch at LYLO). Otherwise I'm in basic agreement with Skruffs' list. Most suspicious of you and Lowell, not willing to take any advice from Oman, and fairly certain Skruffs is town.

[Bookitty]

because I dont think you think I am scum..

now answer MY questions, which were posed first.

Did you read Skruffs' list?

What do you think of his list?

Why were you pushing for everyone to vote Dizzy when, as it turns out, you hadn't fully understood the game from the start and thus your entire premise was wrong? What did you think was so good about your case on Dizzy, given your lack of information?

Lowell, were you aware the role PMs were available to everyone via that link?

[Bookitty]

@curiouskarmadog:

(repeating so it won't be missed)

What did you think was so good about your case on Dizzy, given your lack of information?

[Bookitty]

Well, I was going to vote Lowell because I think he's the most likely scum (CKD is up there too), but since he's gone and can't defend himself, I'm leaning toward voting CKD. But not until Monday, because I can't babysit my vote until then, and I don't feel safe just leaving it on him unattended considering the situation.

[Bookitty]

I think that the fact that no votes have opportunistically landed on Lowell, the way they did on Dizzy, when in point of fact there was NO real case against her (since the role PMs were visible and available to everyone, which apparently was the basis for this crap case on her) is a pretty good case against Lowell. And yes, I think she's likely town, and that scum was trying to railroad her.

I'm going to be around to babysit it, so I'm going to go ahead and

vote: Lowell

because I do think he's scum. More so now, based on the lack of quickvotes, than I did before the weekend.

[Bookitty]

@Skruffs:

The reason I didn't want to leave a vote unattended on Lowell was because we are at LYLO. I think he's scum, but if people started piling votes on him I wouldn't be able to remove mine, and considering the number of scum left, I didn't want to take the chance.

Dizzy: Who do you think is likely scum? You're not making the case against Lowell (though I think there's decent evidence against CKD and Lowell), so who DO you think is scummy?

[Bookitty]

Dizzy, what do you think of Lowell now that he's unvoted you? What do you think of Skruffs?

[Bookitty]

I don't need to be prodded. I just don't have anything to add at the moment.
I am not going to vote to lynch Skruffs, and Lowell continues to seem the most scummy to me.

[Bookitty]

Anyone but you, right, Lowell?

OMGUS much?

Have you yet made a case against Skruffs? Why should anyone vote him without some sort of reason?