New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

Don't think this is going anywhere, I'll wait for some townies to chime in (why are people still talking about shadow)

[Dunnstral]

well, mhsmith0 is scum.

hmm, what to do~

How come you aren't evaluating this "push" on you

[Dunnstral]

Whats the problem lynching your second candidate?

Me?

My second candidate is MDS and there's no "problem"

[Dunnstral]

So both mhsmith and HS think that SAD is extremely likely town, and both agree that im probably town.
...should I start worrying?

For the record I also think SAD is town

[Dunnstral]

But you're not questioning HER there, you're deflecting onto other groups?

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, you literally used *my* reasons for going after Smith

No I didn't.


But fair enough. I'll reevaluate you after this flip (I'll also reevaluate jester though and kagami thinks it's jester anyway)

[Dunnstral]

well, mhsmith0 is scum.

hmm, what to do~

How come you aren't evaluating this "push" on you

I don't really care about him being paranoid of me; I think objectively I look town but I'm nowhere near my usual self which bleeds town all over the thread.

he's scum because he just feels really defensive and cagey (his posts leading up to my 2700, which that was in response to, being an example of this), and he's asking a lot of questions, but it feels like he's just passively floating along and continuing to comment on whatever is going on at the time, without any real follow-through or legwork that indicates he wants to drive the game.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn vs. MH reads town on smith, 'eh' on dunn. Dunn is really hard to read this game.

k

[Dunnstral]

Can't you guys just all agree on a wagon and vote there? Right now the VC is all over the place.

Yeah, I'm down to consolidate our votes

VOTE: Parma-Human Sequencer

[Dunnstral]

HS these past few pages:

Spoiler:

[Dunnstral]

Yeah this is a good vote.
I'm proud of myself

[Dunnstral]

I'll lay out some information for the rest of the.... well for you guys

HS-Parma pair won't push (and barely interact) with the mhsmith-pieguyn pairing
And they both hard pushing Shadow

[Dunnstral]

'If I was scum, there's no way I'd pair up with Dunn! He can read me like a book!'
In pre-dance, mariar didn't want to pair up with Dunn for shoddy reasoning.

So do you think that if Maria is scum, she didn't want to pair with me because I can "read her like a book", or we're both scum (with some theater)?

[Dunnstral]

I explained my read on smith quite satisfactorily, and I can't interact with him because we're online in different timezones.

Didn't realize you had to be in the same timezone to type to the pair... at all

Your pair is hard tunneled on shadow/mariaR.

Kagami and I aren't convinced/don't think that pair is scum. We'd be fine with lynching your pair to help clear things up.

Does this all make sense? You said I was confusing you so hopefully this helps

[Dunnstral]

I'm not pushing the smith/pie pair because smith is town and pie is probably town. How am I reaching?

What I meant was more like "if you're scum, neither of you have went after this other pair"

You should have just townread me

[Dunnstral]

I've interacted w/ pie on every opportunity I've had and probably will continue to until I run out of blood

I don't remember you ever interacting with pie (and I've read the whole thread)

Guess I missed something then. Bet you're exaggerating quite a bit there, and I think mhsmith is the scum anyways

[Dunnstral]

PEDIT:I never said you're both scum. Where are you pulling that from? I have not in this entire thread expressed that your interactions with mariar are theater.

I was asking you a question, not accusing you of something

Awfully defensive, though. It's been noted.

[Dunnstral]

What do you think of the case on me dunn

The case isn't bad if you just look at stuff in thread. (especially since you said you're suicide, then didn't) Though I think you did want to dance with shadow, and I don't think you're scum

[Dunnstral]

What does my PT with dunn have anything to do with the one in this game dunn/shadow are 2 dif people

Where does that pt get brought up?

[Dunnstral]

Dunn:
'yo im pretty convinced smith is scum lol, despite obv towntelling and all, and i don't agree w/ hs' push on shadow and mariar, despite them being like the scummiest thing since the sopranos
imma get hs lynched'

The day you stop confirm biasing is the day you'll be start getting good reads

They already know.




Alternatively they can ask the mod in the dead thread

[Dunnstral]

In response to that @HS I'm playing different from that pt in my pt this game too. I picked Maria with a pretty strong townread, and then she became confirmed town (all ladies did)

Also that game was.... pretty simple

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: mhsmith0
Will post more later but this is a bit obvious

[Dunnstral]

Let's

[Dunnstral]

Fml this game is so hard. What did I get myself into.

I should so stick to newbie games.

Game doesn't seem hard to me

I mean, hard to get a lynch, sure

[Dunnstral]

Bee

[Dunnstral]

'I am used to your bad reads'
>picked the scumteam in our equilibrium mafia game (mariar was scum btw)
>picked the scumteam in autumn masquerade
wot
yes i'm a terrible player and yes i often have bad reads but as far as you're concerned i have a pretty clean track record

The scumteam wasn't hard in equili maf because my slot was obv scum

want a cookie?

My timeline maybe incorrect but
@Dunn why did you ask Kagami and not Vedith for the dance?

I wasn't townreading Kagami or Vedith at the time

No offense but I wouldn't want my pt partner to be vedith. In terms of gamesolving and actually holding a conversation

[Dunnstral]

I'm on mobile and busy but:
Mhsmith is scum. Let's lynch him (I'm caught up.)
Hs-parama probably has scum hs
Jester mds can die

Shadow can stop pushing me and admit he wants to lynch kagami and we can talk about that

[Dunnstral]

Smith pushing on pieguy looks like a last ditch effort to get townread

[Dunnstral]

i wish i wasnt an ic from game start. being confirmed town from post 1 is hella lame.

Agree

[Dunnstral]

Smith pushing on pieguy looks like a last ditch effort to get townread

The incompetence of that read is truly extraordinary if you're town.

Disagree

[Dunnstral]

PS pie-dunn probably v/w fwiw

Based on what?

[Dunnstral]

I call it how I see it.

[Dunnstral]

dunn popping in to throw fuel on the fire is a little worrisome too

?

I mean, they could be talking in pt lol

[Dunnstral]

kinda scummy:
{dunn, mds}

HahahHAHAHAHA

Everybody note that since I called HS scum I've dropped a tier in their reads every time

I want to lynch HS as well and if they were town they wouldn't be shoving me down like that

[Dunnstral]

smith is my third lock town

[Dunnstral]

Scum, don't kill us so that way i can make up for sucking during the first half of this game and catch some of you. I mean look, both Nahdia and I are totally nonthreatening.

^^

uhh

[Dunnstral]

So does that mean me townreading you will make you townread me?

uh, you should know that's untrue. I mean you tried townreading me early

[Dunnstral]

you're still nowhere near the top of my 'to lynch' list.

So when is that planned?

[Dunnstral]

GUYS I FOUND THE BEST WAY TO ENJOY THIS THREAD

https://a.pomf.cat/qktilo.ogg
https://a.pomf.cat/fdywvf.PNG

That's amazing

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral Town
Ser Arthur Dayne S C U M
The_Jester Null
Shadow_step Town
Human Sequencer towny
mhsmith0 scummy
Cerberus v666 ehhhh town because IC pair

Ladies
pieguyn towny

Parama town

Nahdia IC
MiniDeathStar Towny
inspectorscout null
Kagami scummy

So why did you vote Kagami and I instead of ser scout?

[Dunnstral]

Is the reason we're not lynching mhsmith because we're letting pieguy live or what

I'm willing to compromise on jester pair

[Dunnstral]

I might be onboard, simply because I don't get how one generates 3418 without having a good reason to think there's exactly one scum lady.

I didn't know all 3 could be guys at that time
and you were the only person I felt could be scum in ladies so

You were pretty active during pre-dance, how did you miss that?

Answer this pls

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

Hey why don't you explain why instead of being useless as always

Because we went over it on like page fucking 5 which means you either don't care about this game enough to read it because you're scum or just bullshitting randomly.

Why is this a concern when Maria does it but you ignore the fact that Parama did the same the page before your post?

This applies to you as well Dunn.

No it doesn't.

[Dunnstral]

I'll be on to vote before deadline when I wake up

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Parama-HumanSequencer

[Dunnstral]

@mhsmith/pieguy did you guys discuss things overnight?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: parama
I doubt there's no scum in {parama, arthur} and his reaction to shadow/mariar flipping town in our pt is fake as fuck

PEDIT: oh hi parama don't take it personally

Nothing to say to me?

[Dunnstral]

@mhsmith/pieguy did you guys discuss things overnight?

not really. the most substantive discussion we had over the night phase was mhsmith hoping we'd die and us agreeing that Cv666's strategy was stupid.

So why the sudden shift?

How come yesterday you two were gung-ho on each other but today you both want to lynch multiple other people

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: parama
I doubt there's no scum in {parama, arthur} and his reaction to shadow/mariar flipping town in our pt is fake as fuck

PEDIT: oh hi parama don't take it personally

Nothing to say to me?

Didn't you move me from town to scum once I started pushing your pair?

Your self voting looks fake. I believe you're scum over parama in your pair.

Though parama is one of many people who's had a bad entrance into today imo

[Dunnstral]

Where I'm at right now:

HS/Parama top lynch
Mhsmith/Pieguy close second

Would lynch either of those two

at a distant third I have Jester pair

And then we'll see from there. Evaluate Kagami and Scout pair if needed

[Dunnstral]

preferred lynch order rn is sad > kagami > jester > smith > hs btw

backwards reads is not a good look.

[Dunnstral]

Scout: Thoughts on Human Sequencer and Parama?

[Dunnstral]

if you read my posts since daystart, you'll find that I've at least already answered that from my end.

p-edit: @Dunn re 3889

Saying you want to lynch a bunch of other people before your pair doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I thought you wanted to lynch Shadow because you wanted to discuss with Kagami? There seems to be a mutual lack of that

[Dunnstral]

how do you possibly justify keeping Jester alive?

There are two pairs that are scummier

I didn't say I thought jester pair was town. They're my third choice for a lynch. Kagami really wants to lynch that pair as well.

I think the first two pairs I mentioned definitely contain scum. Even if that scum ends up being you. I haven't liked your entrance into today.

[Dunnstral]

Saying you want to lynch a bunch of other people before your pair doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I thought you wanted to lynch Shadow because you wanted to discuss with Kagami? There seems to be a mutual lack of that

for one, Kagami has already commented on my reads and said we were mostly on the same page.

we don't seem to strongly disagree on anyone besides HS, and we seem to agree on Parama regardless, so... /shrug

don't really know what your point here is

Looks like you're making up reasons to lynch other people without outright defending mhsmith (which you can't really do if you're scum and he's town since his scumminess levels were way up there)

[Dunnstral]

Scout: Thoughts on Human Sequencer and Parama?

Parama: read my fucking posts.
HS: still possibly scum, but that depends on the current flips. I'd much rather get pie-smith lynched right now.

And what flips would influence your read on HS?


Also, your undue aggression has been noted. Though I haven't read some of the posts in the middle of this day yet

[Dunnstral]

@dunn why is HS scum

I think I've gone into detail on the subject during day 1.

[Dunnstral]

I do think parama's agression and just posting whatever is on her mind is townie, although i kind of dislike her case on arthur.

"aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" aren't good reasons to seriously town read someone at this point in the game.

Alright. Why should people be town reading you at this point in the game?
After all, isn't "aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" your game so far?


Follow-up question: Who's townreading you, and what's your opinion on them

[Dunnstral]

Looks like you're making up reasons to lynch other people without outright defending mhsmith (which you can't really do if you're scum and he's town since his scumminess levels were way up there)

I honestly don't know how you can actually think "his scumminess levels were way up there"; I remain skeptical that town!you is THAT bad at reading me.

How many people townread you during day 1?

[Dunnstral]

don't ignore me dunn

I didn't. If HS wants to talk about my read on them, they're free to. And I'd prefer to wait for that. If you want to fact-check my read, check my iso

[Dunnstral]

Dunn fits with parama and Jester, I think.

their reads feel off and forced and 3910 is a typical scum sort of "ignoring the motivation someone posts in the game thread to invent some cosmic motivation for someone's posts" push.

So let me get this straight

All game I'm hovering around towny for you

As soon as I push on you I'm scum making up reads

[Dunnstral]

I do think parama's agression and just posting whatever is on her mind is townie, although i kind of dislike her case on arthur.

"aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" aren't good reasons to seriously town read someone at this point in the game.

Alright. Why should people be town reading you at this point in the game?
After all, isn't "aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" your game so far?


Follow-up question: Who's townreading you, and what's your opinion on them

If you're town it would do you good to seriously evaluate this, because by your own logic the people town reading you should be scum.

Yet you're acting contrary to that

[Dunnstral]

Looks like you're making up reasons to lynch other people without outright defending mhsmith (which you can't really do if you're scum and he's town since his scumminess levels were way up there)

I honestly don't know how you can actually think "his scumminess levels were way up there"; I remain skeptical that town!you is THAT bad at reading me.

How many people townread you during day 1?

Are you seriously deflecting onto popular opinion? With "Well those other people didn't think you were really towny". I remain skeptical that YOU, the person in the game with the most experience playing with me, would be that bad at reading me, especially after your participation in the shit wagon on me in our last game together.

"Deflecting"

Think this through with me. If pieguy is scum, and you're town, the amount of people townreading you is 0. If pieguy comes in and "townreads" you she looks bad.

Good chance you're just scum as well though. The way you keep bringing up a past game isn't helping.

[Dunnstral]

I'll lay out some information for the rest of the.... well for you guys

HS-Parma pair won't push (and barely interact) with the mhsmith-pieguyn pairing

And they both hard pushing Shadow

Relevant

[Dunnstral]

don't ignore me dunn

I didn't. If HS wants to talk about my read on them, they're free to. And I'd prefer to wait for that. If you want to fact-check my read, check my iso

you have the largest iso in the game and you know what your points against HS are just point to them it'll take you a fraction of the time it'll take me

ctrl f friendo.

I don't want to say anything about it until hs gets on.

[Dunnstral]

Oh well. Like I said: good luck.

VOTE: MiniDeathStar

Why the dramatics?

[Dunnstral]

I will say I'm curious where the dunn-pie back and forth goes, and am willing to potentially reconsider my stance if I see good evidence to do so. But I'm certainly not there at this point in time.

What compelled you to say this out loud?

You understand how this could change the course of events, right?

[Dunnstral]

Statistically speaking

no

[Dunnstral]

I'll lay out some information for the rest of the.... well for you guys

HS-Parma pair won't push (and barely interact) with the mhsmith-pieguyn pairing

And they both hard pushing Shadow

Relevant

Dunn/Parama... hmmm

When do you plan on responding to my post?

[Dunnstral]

I think i said the whole post sounded fake.
Also, surprise: i scumread mds the whole game. Ask her. I didnt flip because of 1 post, i just had more trust in it. I do think her frustration afterwards is genuine, tjough.

Do you scumread me? Dont you have any patience? Do you feel the need to vote me?

If I felt the need to vote you I'd be voting. You're much more of a null for me rn, and I feel like other flips would be more hepful in terms of evaluating you.

I think we've had more than enough interactions for you to sort me. If pie isn't satisfied with my reads because they are based on agression and careless posting, why should you have a null-read on a rather active poster who has had multiple interactions with you and with others without her making a problem over it?

Isnt that cherrypicking from her side? When dunn calls her out on that, she throws out a scumread on him. Is that townie?

Somebody sees it

[Dunnstral]

I will say I'm curious where the dunn-pie back and forth goes, and am willing to potentially reconsider my stance if I see good evidence to do so. But I'm certainly not there at this point in time.

What compelled you to say this out loud?

You understand how this could change the course of events, right?

Huh? How could "I'm not there at this time, but am willing to see where it goes" materially change the course of events?

Curious that you changed what you actually said, even if the meaning is similar.

If you're thinking one of us is scum (as you said you did) why do you try to almost influence things/posture like that?

[Dunnstral]

I do think parama's agression and just posting whatever is on her mind is townie, although i kind of dislike her case on arthur.

"aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" aren't good reasons to seriously town read someone at this point in the game.

Alright. Why should people be town reading you at this point in the game?
After all, isn't "aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" your game so far?


Follow-up question: Who's townreading you, and what's your opinion on them

If you're town it would do you good to seriously evaluate this, because by your own logic the people town reading you should be scum.

Yet you're acting contrary to that

[Dunnstral]

Mhsmith if pieguy doesn't answer I want your thoughts on what I said there ^

[Dunnstral]

Mhsmith if pieguy doesn't answer I want your thoughts on what I said there ^

Your turn

I will say I'm curious where the dunn-pie back and forth goes, and am willing to potentially reconsider my stance if I see good evidence to do so. But I'm certainly not there at this point in time.

What compelled you to say this out loud?

You understand how this could change the course of events, right?

Huh? How could "I'm not there at this time, but am willing to see where it goes" materially change the course of events?

Curious that you changed what you actually said, even if the meaning is similar.

If you're thinking one of us is scum (as you said you did) why do you try to almost influence things/posture like that?

So your issue with what I said is that I didn't really agree w you, and that was somehow going to materially influence things?

I mean, I guess i can see your point about my having responded to the wrong thing, but I still don't see how the (unedited) part had the potential to make a meaningful influence. Like, how exactly does it substantially change anything for me to be expressing a currently skeptical viewpoint?

You were acting like it was important, but I don't understand how it could have been.

"It could have influenced the way I acted"

Seems pretty careless of a thing for you to say as town. It reads more as posturing to show other people you're considering something. Ideally you would have given thoughts of your own, or said what you did after I was done talking to pie

[Dunnstral]

"But I'm certainly not there at this point in time." Wasn't my own thoughts? Especially on the back of my already stated town!pie reasoning?

Your "thought" was that you didn't have an opinion at the moment

Not really the point I was getting at either

[Dunnstral]

like the thing with this is neither Dunn _or_ Parama feel worried to me at all.

I might just be reading too much into it, but if Jester is town, scum would know that I'd likely lose most of my credibility after his flip.

Worried about what?

[Dunnstral]

so about all i've gotten from dunn's iso:
"might be scum with kagami because hs was awkward discussing kagami once (but i'm not gonna say where)"
"hs is reaching (but i'm not gonna say where)"
"hs barely interacted with pie (i don't think this is true)"
"responding to questions = defensiveness"
"weak omgus accusation in 3403"

definitely doesn't look like "in detail" to me and i'm not sure what your strong points against HS are even supposed to be, as scattered and unsubstantiated as they are

I said I'd talk with HS about it tonight. Are you going to engage with mhsmith/pieguy or just keep white knighting HS

[Dunnstral]

"It could have influenced the way I acted"

Seems pretty careless of a thing for you to say as town. It reads more as posturing to show other people you're considering something.

You wouldn't say "if scum kill me, x is town" unless you were wifoming, would you?

[Dunnstral]

I do think parama's agression and just posting whatever is on her mind is townie, although i kind of dislike her case on arthur.

"aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" aren't good reasons to seriously town read someone at this point in the game.

Alright. Why should people be town reading you at this point in the game?
After all, isn't "aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" your game so far?


Follow-up question: Who's townreading you, and what's your opinion on them

If you're town it would do you good to seriously evaluate this, because by your own logic the people town reading you should be scum.

Yet you're acting contrary to that

This is worth a serious answer to and I'm going to quote it until it gets one

[Dunnstral]

gave my thoughts on pie/smith near the end of first dance, pie is pretty town and i don't particularly feel mhsmith is scum either

ok

[Dunnstral]

Saying you want to lynch a bunch of other people before your pair doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I thought you wanted to lynch Shadow because you wanted to discuss with Kagami? There seems to be a mutual lack of that

for one, Kagami has already commented on my reads and said we were mostly on the same page.

we don't seem to strongly disagree on anyone besides HS, and we seem to agree on Parama regardless, so... /shrug

don't really know what your point here is

Actually...

@pie: what do you think of kagami just doing a quick "I agree with pie with a small difference on HS, I vote jester" pop-in? Is that level of post about what you normally would expect from her at this point?

Btw this was pretty much what I was arguing and she (pieguy) brushed it off by saying they talked about it or something

[Dunnstral]

She's responding to me in the pt

[Dunnstral]

She has posts of her own as well*

[Dunnstral]

She has posts of her own as well*

today she has one post in thread

and ~170 of them in our pt

[Dunnstral]

what's she saying

Maybe you should ask her and see if she answers

[Dunnstral]

PS You seem to be mainly arguing a different point since before this you hadn't followed up on this specific issue? Or am I misreading you?

Just bringing it up again; I did talk about it earlier in the day. Not sure if it was before or after you but think it was before

[Dunnstral]

Do you think she's been trying to get town-read off of those particular ideas? Do you think people are town reading her specifically for that reason?

No.

By her own logic, aggressiveness and posting what you feel aren't reasons to be townreading someone

Yet what has she done? Besides be aggressive and post what they feel? Don't misunderstand me: I'm not pushing on pieguy in that post. If she's town, she seriously needs to look at the people townreading her for no reason because there's probably scum

[Dunnstral]

for basically the same reason I said on D1 - I'd likely play a much more straight-laced scum game in this player list, since I probably would be able to get away with it without much effort

You can't expect people to take your word for it. You should reevaluate your reads.

[Dunnstral]

like the thing with this is neither Dunn _or_ Parama feel worried to me at all.

I might just be reading too much into it, but if Jester is town, scum would know that I'd likely lose most of my credibility after his flip.

Worried about what?

if Jester is scum, worried that your partner will be lynched and that then I'll be able to chain it into a lynch on you.

I thought parama was my partner?

Regardless, I don't care if jester is lynched. Actually, I do. I don't care If they get lynched... eventually. If everyone ignores me and lynches whoever for the second day in a row we're going to have problems and it honestly doesn't matter what they flip because they're still ignoring my points

[Dunnstral]

What's the incentive for scum to prop up a town-town pair at this stage of the game?

I don't think you're a town-town pair.

[Dunnstral]

I thought parama was my partner?

Regardless, I don't care if jester is lynched. Actually, I do. I don't care If they get lynched... eventually. If everyone ignores me and lynches whoever for the second day in a row we're going to have problems and it honestly doesn't matter what they flip because they're still ignoring my points

that was a hypothetical where I was thinking about Jester being scum and one or more of {you, Parama} being scum with him. I just don't have the ~feeling~ either of you are acting like a Jester lynch is really problematic for you, hence I've stopped to question it.

When did you start to scumread me?

[Dunnstral]

I thought parama was my partner?

Regardless, I don't care if jester is lynched. Actually, I do. I don't care If they get lynched... eventually. If everyone ignores me and lynches whoever for the second day in a row we're going to have problems and it honestly doesn't matter what they flip because they're still ignoring my points

that was a hypothetical where I was thinking about Jester being scum and one or more of {you, Parama} being scum with him. I just don't have the ~feeling~ either of you are acting like a Jester lynch is really problematic for you, hence I've stopped to question it.

When did you start to scumread me?

this game day.

your reads so far have been terrible.

Really? But you agreed with my read there yesterday

[Dunnstral]

I was talking about the read on mhsmith. Your slot.

You're acting like my read hasn't changed. It has. I townread you yesterday.

I don't think anyone was feigning frustration. Still think there's scum


I don't see how you can take issue with me seeing HS as scuma dn voting there when you're saying Parama is scum. It's the same slot? Why should it matter to you

I'm not complaining about anything. I'm calling you guys out on something scummy. Note that I'm still voting HS-Parama

[Dunnstral]

Want to know why they call me funnstral

[Dunnstral]

I'm not. I've said it before and I say it again: IF HS flips scum... Kagami is probably scum too

[Dunnstral]

I said this day 1 and I began to think it again overnight.

[Dunnstral]

As a pretty decent possibility at the very least

[Dunnstral]

Alright HS let's get one thing clear:

mhsmith-pie isn't the town-town pair so you can stop preaching that. Arthur isn't getting lynched over your pair so you can stop that, too

[Dunnstral]

Vedith was scumreading Arthur pretty hard.

Vedith suicided

[Dunnstral]

HS, why have you ignored kagami all game?

By which you called her town without reason, pushed on my badly, and never voted us

[Dunnstral]

I'm getting the shivers as If I'm pushing inspectorscum's agenda

[Dunnstral]

HS why don't you take a second look at what I've been saying about mhsmith-pie today

[Dunnstral]

Also Dunn, this would be a good time to actually talk about the hundreds of posts she's been making in PT, given the flagrant uselessness of her thread presence so far in d2, and her apparent unwillingness to even kind of look like she's contributing.

I did and got ignored

[Dunnstral]

I'll start off with Kagami and this is going to be the longest one and contain the most new info... also I'm going to mix in reads on other people a lot here so bear with me I'm not that organized

First of all I may or may not be biased and want her to be town

I don't really know what she's doing. I asked why she wasn't responding to shadow in my pt and she said there was nothing for her to respond to. Thing is I know she her reads did transition in the pt but it didn't show in the main thread and she isn't defending herself so it looks bad. (Says she's posted enough for reads to be interpret-able and pie will get it)

Speaking of the pt, she's active in there too. She's got 65 posts in the main thread and ~60 in the pt and I'm willing to bet that's more than anybody else's half here (might be partially my influence as well)

Going to summarize some of Kagami's thoughts that I don't think need to be hidden (I'm outing mine too so)

-Really early in thinks jesterpair is correct choice. I agree with this
-Early on she thinks one of shadow-mariar and and gamma-vedith are town-town
-This read has shifted to now scumreading gamma, and thinking shadow-maria might be town-town
-Also thinks the ic pairing is town, along with us and hs-parama
-I've voiced suspicions on HS (mostly in-thread and tying in Kagami) while Kagami thinks HS is town but parama might need to be looked at (still thinks they're t-t for now)
. . . -I think Parama is town but question HS. Don't think either of us would lynch this right now/today though
-Says that if she were scum, she'd have paired with sickofit instead of me who scumread her
-Points out that jester townreads shadow but doesn't vote gamma though he scumreads gamma
. . . -This prompted me to ask about him intending to place a vote
. . . -Kagami made a good point very recently saying that Jester's townread on Parama is weird considering the strong townread on Shadow from the start


Note that when I pushed kagami as scum nobody bit, to the point where it seemed like everyone just said she was "lean town" when (imo) the read wasn't deserved
Based off of this I want to feel as if I'm not being pushed at all because I'm paired with Kagami.
In response kagami said she was a little offended that I assumed she was a weak scum player

As for her scumreads, they're jester, gamma, and mhsmith maybe in that order

In response to me she said if mhsmith were scum he'd be spending a low amount of effort sorting out his pt
. . . -This prompted me to ask mhsmith about his pt, to which the response from him and pie was that they hadn't really done anything (pie noted that mhsmith was 'passive')


Just from reading i got a gut townread on pie (not terribly important)
I feel as if mhsmith is mafia. I also feel good about Gamma being mafia

I've come to townread S.A.D and kagami agrees here. We're both "meh" on inspectorscout though it's not something that needs to be sorted immediately.
. . . -Kagami thinks that if mhsmith is scum this pair is very likely t-t


And that's all I have effort to write for now; ended up just being about Kagami... don't regret

To sum up my other reads:

I scumread mhsmith. In fact;
VOTE: Mhsmith-Pieguy

I still scumread gamma pair

Kagami suspects Jester pair
Current thoughts on Kagami pending

Here's my post, where I go into detail on what's going on in our PT. Here are the reactions:

It makes me laugh how much Dunn wants to shine away from lynch either group in me/gamma and Maria/Shadow.

For information alone, lynching these hroups are the only option.

Smith wagon I can agree with. VOTE: mshsmith0 x pieguyn

Jester's town though. Dunn's also town. I think he pretty much townslipped with the daychat thing.

mhsmith-pie needs to be closely scrutinized but it definitely doesn't need to be today when we have shadowmariar, jestermds and vedithgamma all very helpful and informative lynch targets which are all likely to hit scum and every single pair can't be classified as t-t by a longshot.
Dunn's incredible lust to point the wagon literally anywhere else is concerning.

I really think (and parma agrees) that this DP is dragging on without flips. Namely shadow.

Didn't even say much about mhsmith is this post other than the fact that I scumread him

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, we talked for 30 minutes or so when she had time

She thinks Jester-MDS definitely has scum n it
She also agreed with me at the time that HS-Parama probably has scum in it
She commented that everybody wants to lynch us but nobody really wants to lynch us (which I said in thread 1000's of posts ago so I agree there)
Off of that she says either I'm scum or we're being saved for a later lynch
She thinks if I were scum I'd be unlikely to bus in this situation, not expecting to live, and so thinks if I'm scum it's with jester pair and SADboys
I asked about me not being scum and she said in that case scum would be in mhsmith-pieguy for that specific pair
Comments that there's not a lot of support for a Jester wagon
We agree that HS is setting up a weird dichotomy between SAD and Parama (at least HS is the biggest contributor and the strangest)

There's more but that's the gist of our recent exchange

[Dunnstral]

I've noted that there's a lack on engagement in thread between Mhsmith pair, HS pair, and Kagami as well so I'm entertaining thoughts there

Though I'm definitely up for lynching the first two regardless

[Dunnstral]

mhsmith you seem to have completely missed my 1933

[Dunnstral]

Speaking of false dichotomy stop pushing that pie/dunn thing as a reason to push on me

[Dunnstral]

I meant 170 overall...

not 170 posts in like 2 real life days

[Dunnstral]

And wolf!pie probably means:
Kagami!scum
Maybe HS!scum

Uh, hello? That's what I've been saying

[Dunnstral]

mhsmith you seem to have completely missed my 1933

you seem to have missed that I was asking what she'd been posting TODDAY since your "170+" comment was in response to my asking what she'd done today in PT, not all game

You missed it when I posted it. Or ignored it.

[Dunnstral]

Seems you were more concerned with the vote on yourself than the big wall about kagami

[Dunnstral]

I like how you went from "trying to figure kagami out" to ignoring the post about kagami and pushing on me

[Dunnstral]

Yet you're voting jester

[Dunnstral]

You can't actually really push for my lynch and there's multiple explanations:
a. You're scum with kagami
b. You're scum but don't want me to flip with that dichotomy on pie

???

When do you expect me to get lynched, exactly? Are you hoping we suicide?

[Dunnstral]

I'll start off with Kagami and this is going to be the longest one and contain the most new info... also I'm going to mix in reads on other people a lot here so bear with me I'm not that organized

First of all I may or may not be biased and want her to be town

I don't really know what she's doing. I asked why she wasn't responding to shadow in my pt and she said there was nothing for her to respond to. Thing is I know she her reads did transition in the pt but it didn't show in the main thread and she isn't defending herself so it looks bad. (Says she's posted enough for reads to be interpret-able and pie will get it)

Speaking of the pt, she's active in there too. She's got 65 posts in the main thread and ~60 in the pt and I'm willing to bet that's more than anybody else's half here (might be partially my influence as well)

Going to summarize some of Kagami's thoughts that I don't think need to be hidden (I'm outing mine too so)

-Really early in thinks jesterpair is correct choice. I agree with this
-Early on she thinks one of shadow-mariar and and gamma-vedith are town-town
-This read has shifted to now scumreading gamma, and thinking shadow-maria might be town-town
-Also thinks the ic pairing is town, along with us and hs-parama
-I've voiced suspicions on HS (mostly in-thread and tying in Kagami) while Kagami thinks HS is town but parama might need to be looked at (still thinks they're t-t for now)
. . . -I think Parama is town but question HS. Don't think either of us would lynch this right now/today though
-Says that if she were scum, she'd have paired with sickofit instead of me who scumread her
-Points out that jester townreads shadow but doesn't vote gamma though he scumreads gamma
. . . -This prompted me to ask about him intending to place a vote
. . . -Kagami made a good point very recently saying that Jester's townread on Parama is weird considering the strong townread on Shadow from the start


Note that when I pushed kagami as scum nobody bit, to the point where it seemed like everyone just said she was "lean town" when (imo) the read wasn't deserved
Based off of this I want to feel as if I'm not being pushed at all because I'm paired with Kagami.
In response kagami said she was a little offended that I assumed she was a weak scum player

As for her scumreads, they're jester, gamma, and mhsmith maybe in that order

In response to me she said if mhsmith were scum he'd be spending a low amount of effort sorting out his pt
. . . -This prompted me to ask mhsmith about his pt, to which the response from him and pie was that they hadn't really done anything (pie noted that mhsmith was 'passive')


Just from reading i got a gut townread on pie (not terribly important)
I feel as if mhsmith is mafia. I also feel good about Gamma being mafia

I've come to townread S.A.D and kagami agrees here. We're both "meh" on inspectorscout though it's not something that needs to be sorted immediately.
. . . -Kagami thinks that if mhsmith is scum this pair is very likely t-t


And that's all I have effort to write for now; ended up just being about Kagami... don't regret

To sum up my other reads:

I scumread mhsmith. In fact;
VOTE: Mhsmith-Pieguy

I still scumread gamma pair

Kagami suspects Jester pair
Current thoughts on Kagami pending

Here's my post, where I go into detail on what's going on in our PT. Here are the reactions:

It makes me laugh how much Dunn wants to shine away from lynch either group in me/gamma and Maria/Shadow.

For information alone, lynching these hroups are the only option.

Smith wagon I can agree with. VOTE: mshsmith0 x pieguyn

Jester's town though. Dunn's also town. I think he pretty much townslipped with the daychat thing.

mhsmith-pie needs to be closely scrutinized but it definitely doesn't need to be today when we have shadowmariar, jestermds and vedithgamma all very helpful and informative lynch targets which are all likely to hit scum and every single pair can't be classified as t-t by a longshot.
Dunn's incredible lust to point the wagon literally anywhere else is concerning.

I really think (and parma agrees) that this DP is dragging on without flips. Namely shadow.

Didn't even say much about mhsmith is this post other than the fact that I scumread him

[Dunnstral]

I didn't say what you should be doing. I'm saying I start talking about Kagami and you attempt to discredit me.

[Dunnstral]

Your line of thinking doesn't make sense. Your push on maria/shadow was bad in a way that you were under pressure and voted the next wagon

[Dunnstral]

If your pair and kagami are scum (which is a possibility I'm considering) then Jester pair is the last place I'd lynch

You seem to be considering the same thing but don't seem to care

[Dunnstral]

So given the logic of "pie!scum probably = jester!town", where I'm not subscribing to the first part, why does my vote not make sense?

You just said you thought I'd be scum if kagami were town

[Dunnstral]

You're pushing the pietown mescum thing yet your reasoning for voting jester is "well he has a good chance of being scum too"

[Dunnstral]

By the way jester's last post was before 4 dead guys

MDS, has he been flaking out or was he discussing things overnight?

[Dunnstral]

And? I could say the same thing about parama/sad (decent odds of a scum between them), and the same "why aren't you voting one of them" logic would apply, would it not?

No, because I'm voting HS/Parama.

[Dunnstral]

why aren't you voting for me/pie or kagami?

I'm not sure on Kagami. That's why I'm trying to get discussion going instead of getting into a slapfight

I'm willing to vote for you/pieguy as well. I think I'd rather get HS/Parama today because I'm decently sure of scum in there and seeing "which one flips scum" is pretty important

[Dunnstral]

Yea and so does Kagami's ^

[Dunnstral]

Do you agree that there's likely scum in HS/Parama?

[Dunnstral]

Alright HS let's get one thing clear:

mhsmith-pie isn't the town-town pair so you can stop preaching that. Arthur isn't getting lynched over your pair so you can stop that, too

oh wow look at this dude, he must be hot shit <3

HS, why have you ignored kagami all game?

By which you called her town without reason, pushed on my badly, and never voted us

because i thought they were probably town. i glazed over their posts because i thought there were bigger fish to fry, E.G shadow/mariar who I thought were obvscum. i was wrong.
i never voted you because i thought kagami was town, i didn't think you were scummy enough to warrant lynching and your wagon had no support anyway, so i'd effectively be on a vanity wagon.

hoo boy

So you won't even talk about us if we "have no support" when the day dragged on forever?

I'm calling you out on that. You claimed you thought you were going to die. No reason you wouldn't out your reads as town.

[Dunnstral]

Kagami, whenever you arrive can you talk to me about what you think about Dunn's behavior this game day?

I'd like that.

[Dunnstral]

Pieguy what do you think I've ignored?

[Dunnstral]

why is nobody voting pie-smith? Please, it's the best wagon.

I explained it friend-o

I think there's scum in parma-HS and I think it would clear things up seeing which it is.

I also think that there is scum in mhsmith-pieguy but I'd prefer the other one

So in the end it's "information lynch" but not really because I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum one way or another

Let's pressure HS

[Dunnstral]

second, I've asked you multiple times why it's so problematic for you that I want to lynch Jester's pair and Parama's pair if you had scum reads on them yourself, nothing - this seems like a fairly noticeable contradiction in the mindset with which you're approaching this and I'd still like an answer to it.

I explained why I didn't want to lynch Jester pair.... maybe. It might have been in the PT.

I'd be completely fine with you voting HS-parama with me.

[Dunnstral]

Kagami's kind of feeling off to me again and I don't want to vote what she's pushing right now - being jester pair (to her annoyance I'm sure) because I feel like if she's scum and pushing a t-t pair scum would win off of that (not literally but we wouldn't be able to 'do it')

[Dunnstral]

also, I'm still not sure what your actual reason for scum reading mhsmith at this point is and your recent posts directed to him have been as nitpick-y as your posts directed to me, so I'd like if you could run me through it again.

It's a culmination of things. Not sure how to come out an explain it but we can talk about specific parts if you want

I don't think I'm being "nitpicky" I think this is a unique setup that allows for some interesting scumhunting

[Dunnstral]

Then vote me. I don't know what you want me to say. I disagree.

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:
Reclarified stance.
Lynches I'll get behind and why:

Spoiler: Jester/MDS

Jester was acting pretty scummy early on and has since completely disappeared from the game. MDS has done nothing but pop in and AtE all game. They really should have been lynched instead of Vedith/Gamma, if that happened we'd be in much better shape right now. Preferred wagon, probably.

Spoiler: Arthur/Inspector

I desperately need to look into Arthur closer instead of waving all of his posts off as obvtown. Some meta reading will probably help too. I think my interpretation of his personality might have been wrong, which has set my read off all game. You won't have my vote here until I do that analysis.

Spoiler: Funnstral/Kagami

Fringe case. It'll be for Kagami, if it is. So many people have read Kagami as scum and it makes me feel like I've probably given them a free pass much akin to how I may have to arthur. All along I've understood that their posts are objectively scummy (lol @ naked votes) but I feel like I can understand his logic even if he doesn't say it at times. Perhaps that's the plan, put in no details so some idiotic sequencer comes along and fills it in themselves. Beyond that, his posts just felt towny.

I still don't understand the smith scumreads at all even after re-evaluation.

Funnstral will push me now that I'm not voting myself, and he probably thinks it was a ploy to make myself look townier after the obvscum push I did yesterday. I understand that my actions have been objectively scummy, but all that happened is that I changed my mind after a sorely needed re-evaluation.

I still strongly believe that one of {parama, arthur} is scum. If it's not arthur, it's 100% Parama.

First part of your post looks fine. Second part looks like you're setting up for an Arthur vote. Who do you think is more likely scum between Parama and Arthur?

At that, why are you creating a false dichotomy?

+points for funnstral

[Dunnstral]

OK Mds: what are your thoughts? Who is scum? What about the people on your wagon?

[Dunnstral]

Hey, Mds, can you help me out?

Do you think pieguy's read on me makes sense?

[Dunnstral]

- you keep saying I'm "making up reasons" to push people who aren't mhsmith. which reads/reasons have I made up and why do they come across as made-up?

My thoughts don't all coexist together. If you're scum it's possible it's with kagami and 1 other and so your "made up" read is most likely the one you're pushing; jester

- why do you find it so difficult to believe I'd want to back off of mhsmith and give him some room, after what happened at the end of D1? don't care if you don't think it was a town tell, I want to know why you find it so difficult to believe that *I* - or anyone else - would think it a good idea to give him room after that.

Didn't you "give him room" overnight? I asked.
Not sure where you're going with this - are you saying you needed time to cool off? Okay I guess.

- what about my push on you is scummy? you're a smart enough player to realize "ur pushing me bc I called u scum" is not a valid reason for anything - I take issue with your read on me because your reasoning is reachy as all hell and you ignore me when I try to explain to you when my read is wrong, which is a fairly typical scum tactic, not because of the fact that you are pushing me and that's it.

You calling my reasoning reachy doesn't make it go away. I think What I've been putting forth has been valid

To start with, I began by asking you a question about the people on your wagon. You overreacted and acted like I was throwing shade/pushing on you and refused to answer me and then scumread me.

By the way, that's still valid to look at if you're town.

... are you being deliberately obtuse or are you actually serious?

hmm

- how on earth did you justify claiming it was scummy of me to want to lynch Jester and Parama before mhsmith, when at the time you posted that, *you also wanted to lynch both pairs*? don't care if you've backed off the Jester read now, the fact of the matter is at the point when you posted this angle you were OK with a Jester lynch and it makes no sense to complain that I'm "lining up lynches" when all the pairs I were pushing were pairs you AGREED were scum.

Here's the thing: you said you thought mhsmith was scum, but wanted to lynch shadow to "discuss a scum flip with kagami"
Well, he flipped town, and when I ask you about the discussing with kagami bit you start saying things like you're already in agreement anyway and also we shouldn't lynch your pair again

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Arthur/scout
I'm confident in Jester/MDS T/T now, and although Parama has acted quite scummy, he's had a few posts that do not logically come from scumParama (Thank you to Pieguyn for pointing out 4095 and wriggling some analysis out of me)

Scout has been badposting a lot, and I still definitely believe there's at least one scum in {parama, arthur} for the shadow push. Although parama looks far worse on the shadow wagon and post shadow flip, again, parama has said some things that just don't make sense coming from scum, and was townread by far more dead townies than Arthur.

The one and only thing that gives me pause is Nahdia scumreading Jester/MDS.

There it is guys. After all that posturing HS finally votes for Arthur, ignoring my arguments for why they're the best lynch and doing what I predicted they'd be doing as scum.

HS knows arthur-scout isn't going to get lynched here, as well.

[Dunnstral]

Let's pressure HS

ask me anything you want and if i don't acknowledge you just ask me again

Who do you think is more likely scum between Parama and Arthur?

i'm not sure
my gut and reads tell me parama, more objective analysis (competent conftownie reads) tells me sad

At that, why are you creating a false dichotomy?

because it almost certainly isn't false, no way was there 0 scum pushing shadow, and i'm town. beyond that, they're both pushing each other pretty hard.

Why are you so predictable, if you are indeed town?

[Dunnstral]

To start with, I began by asking you a question about the people on your wagon. You overreacted and acted like I was throwing shade/pushing on you and refused to answer me and then scumread me.

By the way, that's still valid to look at if you're town.

are you seriously going to deny that you're pushing me? you continue to state, in no uncertain terms, "mhsmith/pie isn't town/town", you continue to inject yourself into interactions with people who claim that my pair is town/town, you outright said in 3905 before I even started to interact with you that you didn't like my entrance...

and I didn't answer your question at first because it was a stupid question, but even so, I did eventually answer it after you kept requesting me to answer it, so... what is your point here?

My thoughts don't all coexist together. If you're scum it's possible it's with kagami and 1 other and so your "made up" read is most likely the one you're pushing; jester

you are dodging the question. you claim it looks like I'm making up reads - what about my read on Jester looks made up to you?

you are basically saying I'm making up reads because I could be scum with Kagami. I hope I don't need to explain why this is a circular argument and I don't think you would be that obtuse to where you'd think this is actually a good line of reasoning. you can't just say "your reads look made up" and call it a day - if you want to say that my reads look made up, that is that I wouldn't have the reads that I have as town, you need to have an explanation for *why* I wouldn't have those reads as town or you have no ground to stand on.

Didn't you "give him room" overnight? I asked.
Not sure where you're going with this - are you saying you needed time to cool off? Okay I guess.

I'm saying that I think the way mhsmith interacted with me end of D1 is a town tell. with that in mind, why is it so surprising that at the current point in the game I'd prefer to leave him for later and lynch elsewhere (people I think are likely to actually flip scum)?

Never denied that I'm pushing you - I'm just not voting you atm

I think your read on Jester is fake because I think you're scum trying to lynch a pair that isn't you.

It's not surprising that you don't want to lynch mhsmith. It's to be expected, in fact.

[Dunnstral]

I want to catch up to more recent kagami-pie posting

[Dunnstral]

because dunn 110% wants me dead which also kills parama, and parama had some realistic reads on dunn throughout the game. that latter one only holds up if parama is town, i understand that.
i doubt dunn has been pushing me for bus credit because he was doing it yesterday, and his reaction to me scumreading parama makes no sense for a scumDunn that is trying to bus parama.

i read most of his pushes as legitimate but misguided.

Sure. Except I'm not misguided, and you were doing a stunt early in the day where you scumread parama but that doesn't add up here anymore

By the way, It is my belief that whether it's you or parama, there's 1 scum in your group. I've said that

who

the scum is would have a big effect on my reads

[Dunnstral]

thing is if we go through with the Jester lynch and it's town, then we probably just lose.

That's what I've been saying.

So why are you voting Jester, instead of Parama group?

[Dunnstral]

We'll see who actually is the VI in the end.

Not it

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think would be most likely scum with jester?

if Jester is scum, I think it's Jester, Parama, +1.

+this for what I just said

[Dunnstral]

since then I've been attempting to figure out where to go.

It sounds like you've already figured it out.

[Dunnstral]

Kagami what do you think? About The Parama pair being our best lynch as opposed to jester pair

[Dunnstral]

scout - in time my friend follow up

[Dunnstral]

Your indecision will lead you to ruin

[Dunnstral]

We'll see who actually is the VI in the end.

Not it

The
F.

scout - in time my friend follow up

What if I'm pushing dunnscum's agenda right now

I'm voting HS-Parama pal

[Dunnstral]

We're at a pretty critical juncture here

Agreed

Which is why I'm not ok with the jester pair lynch, even though I've got suspicions there

[Dunnstral]

pieguy ignoring that I also linked kagami to that (MY PAIR)

[Dunnstral]

"overreacting and acting like he was pushing me", then in his next post he agrees he was pushing me...)

I wasn't pushing you when I asked you the question early in the day. How is that hard to understand?

[Dunnstral]

I do think parama's agression and just posting whatever is on her mind is townie, although i kind of dislike her case on arthur.

"aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" aren't good reasons to seriously town read someone at this point in the game.

Alright. Why should people be town reading you at this point in the game?
After all, isn't "aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" your game so far?


Follow-up question: Who's townreading you, and what's your opinion on them

This isn't pushing on you.

I'm saying if you're town, you likely have scum townreading you, and you should think about that group. After this you called me scum and ignored the question

[Dunnstral]

Right. That's not openly pushing you, I'm asking reasonable questions to solve the game

Granted, if I recall I was scumreading your entrance into the day (there might be something in our pt to show that)

I didn't push for a lynch on you. I've been voting HS all day

[Dunnstral]

You seem(ed) to have a problem with me even showing suspicion directed at you.

[Dunnstral]

AND HOW YOUR BEHAVIOR CLEARLY SUGGESTS YOU AREN'T ATTEMPTING TO TIE PARAMA'S PAIR AND MY PAIR TOGETHER.

Well, they are tied together.

[Dunnstral]

I'm only pointing things that exist as connections out. I'm not fabricating realities

[Dunnstral]

Oh, right. Looking back Kagami was telling me she wasn't concerned with your pair at the time of that posting, you keep failing to mention that I included Kagami as a tie-in

[Dunnstral]

I do think parama's agression and just posting whatever is on her mind is townie, although i kind of dislike her case on arthur.

"aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" aren't good reasons to seriously town read someone at this point in the game.

Alright. Why should people be town reading you at this point in the game?
After all, isn't "aggression" and "posting whatever is on their mind" your game so far?


Follow-up question: Who's townreading you, and what's your opinion on them

Right after this, where you say:

Dunn fits with parama and Jester, I think.

their reads feel off and forced and 3910 is a typical scum sort of "ignoring the motivation someone posts in the game thread to invent some cosmic motivation for someone's posts" push.

In response to me is where I seriously start to consider it as a push.

[Dunnstral]

you're attempting to invent an interaction between Parama's pair and my pair

I'm not making anything up. What I pointed out was factually correct. You can argue that the lack of interaction doesn't tie you together, but you can't argue that I'm making up a lack of interaction between your pairs

[Dunnstral]

The question isn't meant to be accusatory in nature. I explained that if you're town you should be looking there. I was hoping to discuss that with you.

[Dunnstral]

What do you think Kagami? Do you think there are meaningful interactions between mhsmith/pieguy and HS/parama (probably from before I called them out on it)

[Dunnstral]

What is parama at?

There should only be 2 out of 6 votes needed on him.

[Dunnstral]

Pie can I have a concrete read on mhsmith from you on where you currently stand?

And while you're here, Dunn and Kagami, how are you reading each other right now?

I hold suspicions towards Kagami. I would however not consider voting our pair out at this time. I think if HS is indeed scum the chance of Kagami being scum goes up. Kagami is hard to read.

[Dunnstral]

but I'm open to leaving as soon as we can agree to a high confidence T-T pair.

I'm going to remember this for later.

[Dunnstral]

What's your reason now?

[Dunnstral]

If I recall it was just speculation on a possible pairing, but it seems like you're considering voting with me

[Dunnstral]

(Which I'd appreciate)

[Dunnstral]

Voting with me

So Parama pair

[Dunnstral]

A simple fact check shows that mhsmith is making things up. First of all, I wasn't even talking to scout in 1343. This is what I was responding to:

I'm supposed to have controversial reads to be town? Wow, thanks,

I'll write this down for next time I'm scum.

Awk.

I'm supposed to have controversial reads to be town? Wow, thanks, I'll write this down for next time I'm scum.

RIP

And it's not a slip. Mhsmith is trying to paint this as me defending jester-MDS when I wasn't.

I unvoted MDS because as she talked to me about Kagami I felt a lot better about her.

[Dunnstral]

2) You don't think jester-MDS is a pair with a wolf in it, right?

I never said that.

[Dunnstral]

I think if that pair is both town, lynching them will cost town the game.

[Dunnstral]

And I gave reasons for my HS-Parama vote.

[Dunnstral]

So why do you care about the scenario where a red flip in there might make you look bad?

Also, what are you talking about? You brought it up and I pointed out how what you said was wrong.

[Dunnstral]

Sure, you've given reasons for HS-Parama, but your push against a jester-mds lynch suggests that you have at least something of a town read there, even if it's indirect via game state read, who's pushing them etc. Like, if you thought there was very likely scum in there, then you wouldn't be pushing agianst it with much energy and would consider it a pretty reasonable alternative.

So essentially, you're communicating that you think that, at the very least, there is a pretty meaningful chance that they're town-town. And yet you are (it seems) accusing me of trying to shovel dirt on you, when that commentary would only even apply in the event that their pair has at least one wolf in it. So I guess the question is, since you think there's a pretty solid chance they're town/town, why are you even bothered by a potential association there?

No. I'm entertaining multiple possibilities and voting the overlap. Also the best lynch for me to figure the rest out

Doesn't matter if it's my 3rd scumread pair or my 2nd, if it's not my 1st I'm going to fight against it.

[Dunnstral]

That's not a slip btw

Bad time to start pushing this wagon, bad reason too

^ at a relatively important point, you commented not just that the "slip" argument was a bad reason to hop on the wagon (which is a fair point), but that it was a "bad time to start pushing this wagon", which is in fact a pretty meaningful commentary at a fairly important point (another vote or two on jester-mds would have made it a very difficult wagon to derail). So you doubtcast the wagon and hopped off at a high leverage situation, and you take issue with my pointing out the connection due to

1) my (utterly meaningless) mistake in saying it was scout instead of HS you were responding to
2) you saying that you weren't defending them when "bad time to start pushing this wagon" is very clearly defending them, and not just for the "slip" bit

This... does not make me less suspicious of you in the case that there's a red flip in jester-mds.

PS Since you cite MDS's kagami discussion, what post or posts in particular made you feel a lot better about her? Was it just that she'd expressed some suspicion? These two posts? Something else?

Why do you think Kagami is scum?

Cloning your reads. Copying the case Shadow without much original input from herself. Staying under the radar.

If Shadow's scum she could be town though.

Why do you think she's town if shadow is scum? (and if shadow is town, why is kagami scum)

I saw the shadow read as more opportunism rather than bussing. Plus I don't think she'd gain much from bussing this early.

Note that I continue talking to her. And said we weren't in a rush to lynch someone else as I was figuring things out.

[Dunnstral]

@Parama: Sorry about being stupid earlier. I wasn't going to let Jester get away with it for long, I just really really wanted to play with him for a while. I actually think he's town now though. He made some really good posts in our PT and supported my decision to quit the dance if I thought it was the right thing to do.

Also, this would be MDS "finding some excuse to townread jester", right? Given that you said this would potentially be a point of suspicion on her, why didn't you follow up? Was it just because you were away from thread for a while? Or did something else ping you sufficiently town about her that you didn't think it was a worthwhile issue to bring up?

I responded to what was directed at me, and not to what was clearly meant for someone else to answer.

[Dunnstral]

Hs you're an enjoyable person btw, can you make sure the dead thread is lively? It always sucks when nobody is talking in there after a game like this

[Dunnstral]

I know you don't like to admit it from the last game but my reads were pretty much on point

If you're not scum, Parama almost certainly is.

From your flip I'll likely be able to nail another scum, which may then lead me to the third.

You should consider leaving the dance.

[Dunnstral]

Remember how early on I said people shouldn't leave the dance?
I'm over that. You should leave the dance

[Dunnstral]

I'm pretty sure everyone's given a stance at this point

Well, everyone I care about, for the time being.

[Dunnstral]

I read the last 1/3 of your ISO

No you didn't. Considering you read 4 pages at a time it's pretty bold to be claiming you've read around ~200 posts just from me

[Dunnstral]

Remember how early on I said people shouldn't leave the dance?
I'm over that. You should leave the dance

If HS actually takes this advice (she shouldn't) and HS-Parama flips town-town (let's hope not), I'm just gonna stick my vote on Dunn and never move it.

What's your stance on HS-Parama?

[Dunnstral]

What's weird about the dichotomy? POE says 1-2 of them are scum. Either they are double bussing or one is attempting to mislynch the other. It's odd that you both agree on it when it's just not that out there to suggest Arthur and Parama are enemies. Kagami seems to agree with you *a lot* in general, which is an established pattern from First Dance. Why isn't this pinging you? Also "She commented that everybody wants to lynch us but nobody really wants to lynch us" is what *I* have been saying about us and accusing her of, so it's definitely not a novel angle for her to try to push around.

She really doesn't. I might be painting a weidr picture from stuff I'm referencing

You might be a little confused? We're saying the dichotomy HS set up is weird, we didn't agree with the dichotomy

[Dunnstral]

What are your thoughts on HS-Parama?

[Dunnstral]

I scumread Kagami when no one else did.

objectively false. I also had suspicion that I was talking to you about.

[Dunnstral]

MDS I realize you think Kagami is scum


There are no night kills in this game, I don't intend to let your group get lynched, we can talk about her if you'd like but our best lynch is what I'm voting. And I can't die today because I need to lead the town for the next lynch.

[Dunnstral]

Actually scum!Kagami could well implicate one of Smith/Pie, since they seem to be the only place where you two are at serious odds with each other.

I've also said this and kind of agree

[Dunnstral]

I'm actually excited though

[Dunnstral]

him attempting to line up my pair as a lynch after Parama's pair,

You shouldn't accuse me of things I have yet to do.

Sounds like you think Parama is scum. Certainly the way you're acting. Are you sure on this yet?

[Dunnstral]

I've got nothing more to talk about. People off wagon can talk among themselves if they so choose.

[Dunnstral]

MDS stop self voting

[Dunnstral]

Scout what do you think of your partner? And Parama pair

[Dunnstral]

1) Because Smith is town and is actually frustrated with scout
2) Because Smith is a wolf and is simply trying to imitate what he'd do as town (which would probably come across as fake somehow btw)
3) Because Smith is a wolf and is fake interacting with his teammate
4) Because Smith is a wolf and some other explanation

One of these answers is correct.

75% I like my odds

[Dunnstral]

O Kagami, would you grace our pt with your presence

[Dunnstral]

is there any configuration where this game works at all with both our pairs as town/town?

Yeah.

[Dunnstral]

e