New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

Yeah you or anyone else shouldn't leave the dance ever. Period.

People need to not try to be heroes.

+++

[Dunnstral]

@dunn
netflix and chill?

[Dunnstral]

@HS
@MDS

[Dunnstral]

I'm gonna quote for you guys my logic from the last game

[Dunnstral]

Sickofit

Dig
PsychoticDave

Gamma

Parama
MariaR/Human sequencer


Most scummy to least in each half

Therefore best lynch by far is sickofit parama

added some coloring too

The pairs were
sickofitparama
DunnMariaR
PsychoticDaveGamma
DigHumanSequencer

[Dunnstral]

Are you trying to show that kagami is scummy for sheeping?

...I'm asking you for thoughts, actually

[Dunnstral]

Kagami is town

Why

And how can youput me below kagami and vedith? Now you're trying to get a rise out of me

[Dunnstral]

*only if mariar flips scum

She won't

[Dunnstral]

Which reminds me of something dumb

although scum me would 100% pair with smith or gamma

Or me if you wanted to win as scum y'know

real talk

Oh hell no I'd be scared af to go dance with you if I was scum cause I'd think you'd figure me out by comparing dances
Smith and gamma are easy to manipulate...dam why do I have a scum plan yet no town plan
*rechecks role pm*

I think you're underestimating my ability to get buddied and willingness to lynch someone that agrees with me

[Dunnstral]

idk explaining reads is haaaaard
he posts like town
vedith is a highly fluctuating slot

Really gotta sleep guys, if I wake up and shadow is still alive i'll be kinda annoyed tbh

Hey loser I know you're low on sleep but I didn't ask for a read on vedith

[Dunnstral]

InspectorScout you can take her place and chime in with your thoughts

[Dunnstral]

HS noted as awkward discussing kagami.

[Dunnstral]

10 pages fk this

If you're not gonna read just read from page 54 on and talk about my stuff thanks

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

Btw how was Gamma-town uncontroversial? Or Kagami-scum? That's got to earn me at least £50 town pounds, right?

Why do you think Kagami is scum?

ahahahahaahhaahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
please do leave the dance for us, it'll be the most pro-town thing you can do~

start towntelling I know you can do it

Why do you think Kagami is scum?

Cloning your reads. Copying the case Shadow without much original input from herself. Staying under the radar.

If Shadow's scum she could be town though.

Cloning your reads.

I was thinking this myself from stuff inside the pt

One thing that stood out is that I made a post saying vedith wasn't as bad as I thought originally and then she said she was ok with vedith town

Staying under the radar.

Still agree with this too
Why do you think she's town if shadow is scum? (and if shadow is town, why is kagami scum)

Maria look what you did

Why do you think she's town if shadow is scum? (and if shadow is town, why is kagami scum)

I saw the shadow read as more opportunism rather than bussing. Plus I don't think she'd gain much from bussing this early.

UNVOTE:

Sorry arthur, when you think about it a little her explanation does check out.

Can we please lynch Mr. Obvscum (shadow) now?

I was thinking this myself from stuff inside the pt

One thing that stood out is that I made a post saying vedith wasn't as bad as I thought originally and then she said she was ok with vedith town

In which I meant this:

Alright, I'm ok with vedith-town.

Which is about as much as she said about that in the pt as well

@HS
@MDS

Can we please lynch Mr. Obvscum (shadow) now?

let's chill a bit

Nah I think mini/jester can do with some leaving
I think you mean townies should never leave the dance

I don't understand what you're trying to say here
Are you trying to show that kagami is scummy for sheeping? I don't get it, I need Jester's retard translation again

@arthur
Yes all of those pairs need to go asap, shadow first
I agree with you by the way, but I agree with nahdia more (FIND TOWNS, LYNCH EVERYBODY ELSE)

Are you trying to show that kagami is scummy for sheeping?

...I'm asking you for thoughts, actually

*only if mariar flips scum

She won't

idk explaining reads is haaaaard
he posts like town
vedith is a highly fluctuating slot

Really gotta sleep guys, if I wake up and shadow is still alive i'll be kinda annoyed tbh

Which reminds me of something dumb

although scum me would 100% pair with smith or gamma

Or me if you wanted to win as scum y'know

real talk

Oh hell no I'd be scared af to go dance with you if I was scum cause I'd think you'd figure me out by comparing dances
Smith and gamma are easy to manipulate...dam why do I have a scum plan yet no town plan
*rechecks role pm*

I think you're underestimating my ability to get buddied and willingness to lynch someone that agrees with me

idk explaining reads is haaaaard
he posts like town
vedith is a highly fluctuating slot

Really gotta sleep guys, if I wake up and shadow is still alive i'll be kinda annoyed tbh

Hey loser I know you're low on sleep but I didn't ask for a read on vedith

InspectorScout you can take her place and chime in with your thoughts

@Dunn:

I told Jester earlier this evening in the PT that I thought there was a scum between {Dunn, Kagami, Arthur} because the reads looked suspiciously similar, and I said Arthur looked too town to be scum. So I asked him if scum!Dunn or scum!Kagami was more likely to copy the other's reads, and Jester was like "Dunn is a great player as either alignment and not easy to fool", so I figured out she'd be the one doing the copying.

"I'm unsure about Gamma. I've played like 3 games with em and e was scum in 2 of them, but e reads different *every time*. Anyway, I caught em pretty quickly the first time so I can put em on hold for now."

There's a HUGE difference between saying "X is town" and what you said.

888 was my catch-up post. I had read the whole thing in one go and gave my quick analysis. The Gamma town-lean came later when I ISO'd em and thought (because of meta) e was being more VI than scum. I've been in two games where e was scum and trying hard to frame people and push mislynches, and one game where e was town and read similar to his play this game. So like, I kind of thought e was a low-hanging fruit at that point so I wanted to inquire deeper into eir case and see if there's anything that I was missing.

Btw Jester thinks Gamma's scum, too.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here
Are you trying to show that kagami is scummy for sheeping? I don't get it, I need Jester's retard translation again

What happened to positivity? I don't think I'm going to answer you until you ask in a nicer way.

@dunn don't call me a loser, you'll make me

@mini did i say anything negative? i was trying to take the piss out of myself. it was supposed to be a joke.

InspectorScout you can take her place and chime in with your thoughts

He said he's going to sleep.

And I'm going to go play some league.

Sooo you have no one left huehue

HS noted as awkward discussing kagami.

[Dunnstral]

What's your point

[Dunnstral]

Wait do you think she's scum too? It's not just vedith?

[Dunnstral]

Do you have an opinion on the rest of what I quoted or are you really that tunneled

[Dunnstral]

it wasn't directed at you it was @maria

What do you mean you can't follow it

From page 54 on I'm asking people their thoughts on Kagami

[Dunnstral]

Only way she is scum is she is scum with Dunn

Why

[Dunnstral]

If Shadow is town Kagami might be scum. Otherwise Shadow is the best I have right now.

Btw inspector had a point, Gamma does look different as town in that game.

Was wondering when mds would start pushing my slot.

why is it suddenly pushing -your- slot when she declares a light scumread on your partner? maybe she just. scumreads your partner and you're not part of the equation at all?

Timing

Also you're way behind

[Dunnstral]

I love how he instantly drops the convo because I just proved his ass wrong

I can always read gamma right i haven't been wrong once and he's S C U M

Prepare for your record to be broken

...I thought you thought she was scum?

[Dunnstral]

Slip? ? ? You're talking to her like she's town and wrong there

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: GammaEmerald-Vedith

[Dunnstral]

MariaR you asked me to quote and then totally ignored me but it's ok

[Dunnstral]

dunn, take a step back for a moment and you'll see the gaping hole in that logic

Not seeing anything

[Dunnstral]

Slip? ? ? You're talking to her like she's town and wrong there

Yeah I realized that mistake and IDGAF
I was trying to bait her for a reaction anyways

Did you realize the mistake afterwards, or were you trying to bait for a reaction? It can't be both

[Dunnstral]

?

Maria doesn't factor in at all

[Dunnstral]

Why do you think I got all cheeky with the picture

[Dunnstral]

?

Maria doesn't factor in at all

your argument is literally "gamma is talking to maria like she's town -and- wrong"
and she thinks gamma is scum

whatever you're arguing is wrong let me tell you

[Dunnstral]

I feel like when inspectorscout returns he doesn't even bother to read anything that transpired while he was away




I can respect that

[Dunnstral]

okay between the earlier mds "scumslip" and dunn trying to accuse gamma of a "scumslip" i really don't think people are very good at recognizing actual scumslips

Yeah I have to agree with you. I think for the past ~1300 posts there's this one guy in particular going on and on about a slip

[Dunnstral]

i think dunn's just kind of dumb

I'm not

[Dunnstral]

LOL these two going at it again

?

[Dunnstral]

Maria pls

[Dunnstral]

10 pages fk this

If you're not gonna read just read from page 54 on and talk about my stuff thanks

quote pls :3

Spoiler:

Btw how was Gamma-town uncontroversial? Or Kagami-scum? That's got to earn me at least £50 town pounds, right?

Why do you think Kagami is scum?

ahahahahaahhaahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
please do leave the dance for us, it'll be the most pro-town thing you can do~

start towntelling I know you can do it

Why do you think Kagami is scum?

Cloning your reads. Copying the case Shadow without much original input from herself. Staying under the radar.

If Shadow's scum she could be town though.

Cloning your reads.

I was thinking this myself from stuff inside the pt

One thing that stood out is that I made a post saying vedith wasn't as bad as I thought originally and then she said she was ok with vedith town

Staying under the radar.

Still agree with this too
Why do you think she's town if shadow is scum? (and if shadow is town, why is kagami scum)

Maria look what you did

Why do you think she's town if shadow is scum? (and if shadow is town, why is kagami scum)

I saw the shadow read as more opportunism rather than bussing. Plus I don't think she'd gain much from bussing this early.

UNVOTE:

Sorry arthur, when you think about it a little her explanation does check out.

Can we please lynch Mr. Obvscum (shadow) now?

I was thinking this myself from stuff inside the pt

One thing that stood out is that I made a post saying vedith wasn't as bad as I thought originally and then she said she was ok with vedith town

In which I meant this:

Alright, I'm ok with vedith-town.

Which is about as much as she said about that in the pt as well

@HS
@MDS

Can we please lynch Mr. Obvscum (shadow) now?

let's chill a bit

Nah I think mini/jester can do with some leaving
I think you mean townies should never leave the dance

I don't understand what you're trying to say here
Are you trying to show that kagami is scummy for sheeping? I don't get it, I need Jester's retard translation again

@arthur
Yes all of those pairs need to go asap, shadow first
I agree with you by the way, but I agree with nahdia more (FIND TOWNS, LYNCH EVERYBODY ELSE)

Are you trying to show that kagami is scummy for sheeping?

...I'm asking you for thoughts, actually

*only if mariar flips scum

She won't

idk explaining reads is haaaaard
he posts like town
vedith is a highly fluctuating slot

Really gotta sleep guys, if I wake up and shadow is still alive i'll be kinda annoyed tbh

Which reminds me of something dumb

although scum me would 100% pair with smith or gamma

Or me if you wanted to win as scum y'know

real talk

Oh hell no I'd be scared af to go dance with you if I was scum cause I'd think you'd figure me out by comparing dances
Smith and gamma are easy to manipulate...dam why do I have a scum plan yet no town plan
*rechecks role pm*

I think you're underestimating my ability to get buddied and willingness to lynch someone that agrees with me

idk explaining reads is haaaaard
he posts like town
vedith is a highly fluctuating slot

Really gotta sleep guys, if I wake up and shadow is still alive i'll be kinda annoyed tbh

Hey loser I know you're low on sleep but I didn't ask for a read on vedith

InspectorScout you can take her place and chime in with your thoughts

@Dunn:

I told Jester earlier this evening in the PT that I thought there was a scum between {Dunn, Kagami, Arthur} because the reads looked suspiciously similar, and I said Arthur looked too town to be scum. So I asked him if scum!Dunn or scum!Kagami was more likely to copy the other's reads, and Jester was like "Dunn is a great player as either alignment and not easy to fool", so I figured out she'd be the one doing the copying.

"I'm unsure about Gamma. I've played like 3 games with em and e was scum in 2 of them, but e reads different *every time*. Anyway, I caught em pretty quickly the first time so I can put em on hold for now."

There's a HUGE difference between saying "X is town" and what you said.

888 was my catch-up post. I had read the whole thing in one go and gave my quick analysis. The Gamma town-lean came later when I ISO'd em and thought (because of meta) e was being more VI than scum. I've been in two games where e was scum and trying hard to frame people and push mislynches, and one game where e was town and read similar to his play this game. So like, I kind of thought e was a low-hanging fruit at that point so I wanted to inquire deeper into eir case and see if there's anything that I was missing.

Btw Jester thinks Gamma's scum, too.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here
Are you trying to show that kagami is scummy for sheeping? I don't get it, I need Jester's retard translation again

What happened to positivity? I don't think I'm going to answer you until you ask in a nicer way.

@dunn don't call me a loser, you'll make me

@mini did i say anything negative? i was trying to take the piss out of myself. it was supposed to be a joke.

InspectorScout you can take her place and chime in with your thoughts

He said he's going to sleep.

And I'm going to go play some league.

Sooo you have no one left huehue

HS noted as awkward discussing kagami.

Also take a look at this:

I love how he instantly drops the convo because I just proved his ass wrong

I can always read gamma right i haven't been wrong once and he's S C U M

Prepare for your record to be broken

...I thought you thought she was scum?

Slip? ? ? You're talking to her like she's town and wrong there

[Dunnstral]

I feel like when inspectorscout returns he doesn't even bother to read anything that transpired while he was away




I can respect that

I am

I just dont think its useful for me to comment on those
There is no use in beating dead cows

This might be an odd question but have you or your partner discussed kagami in your pt?

[Dunnstral]

gr8
I would have preferred she reacted to it naturally but you ruined it Dunnstral

Reacted to it "naturally"?

You said it was an accident, not a reaction test

[Dunnstral]

*clicks dunn's spoiler*
*sees wall*
nope.
Doing that later

k

[Dunnstral]

If anyone on the shadow wagon tr's me Get OFF IT
based on our PT I am strongly sure shadow is town

elaborate

He's acting extremely geninune to me I know you guys find his tone annoying but he's never bitchy to me and he keeps on saying sorry that I'm gonna die because of him I strongly think he's being honest.

Okay so he's pocketing you
Maybe MariaR is town after all.

I cannot see MariaR and ShadowStep being scum together after what she just said.

Why were you considering they were scum together int he first place

What happened to your scumread on vedith?

[Dunnstral]

Or did you forget about that again

[Dunnstral]

Also he threatened to vote our pair at one point, which is very unhelpful to a scum wincon

i threaten to vote my pair

[Dunnstral]

What does that entail

Because as you'll note he never actually voted your pair
Anybody can fake that to look like town. In fact that's obvious. Why didn't you consider it?

[Dunnstral]

Why? Do you have problems sorting her?

More like she hasn't really been here but I'm not impressed with what I've seen

if you're catching up still you should see me posting about it

[Dunnstral]

and everyone has her as a townlean for ??? and I think I disagree

[Dunnstral]

Vedith said my lack of participation in the PT was scummy and wasn't going to hold off his vote on me if he felt I was scum.

Alright let me put it this way

scum want to look town

"no scum would kill themselves off"

And so they say things like that

Why are you not considering this?

[Dunnstral]

Also he threatened to vote our pair at one point, which is very unhelpful to a scum wincon

i threaten to vote my pair

When he did it the Me/Vedith wagon was pretty high up there in support IIRC

Right he "did it" in private and never actually voted

[Dunnstral]

Also like I don't know how to tell you this,

But while I do think you're town, I also get the feeling you can be VERY easily emotionally manipulated and gullible.

Pedit: @Maria

oh this is 100% true

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn: Have you heard back from Kagami yet?

She said she'd catch up later ~12 hours ago so I assume she will

I'm working with what I have in the meantime

[Dunnstral]

and supported my decision to quit the dance if I thought it was the right thing to do.

it's not

[Dunnstral]

HS noted as awkward discussing kagami.

[Dunnstral]

What would you do if kagami flipped scum? Who would you look at (hint: take me out of the equation)

[Dunnstral]

I've got one actually

[Dunnstral]

Parama and I have cleared each other in the PT btw so we're pretty much masons to each other now \o/

are you now

[Dunnstral]

I've got one actually

An associative with kagami, that is

I am opinionated about this

[Dunnstral]

"sheeping dunn" SCUM

huh

[Dunnstral]

I've got one actually

An associative with kagami, that is

I am opinionated about this

Alright let me lay it all out there

I think kagami and HS might be scum together. It lines up with kagami's pt posting to where she's pushing parama-hs as T-T but acting waffly on that

[Dunnstral]

^^ wow, that actually makes a lot of sense. the town town pair thing while still acting waffly really sells it for me I think

[Dunnstral]

So you don't think anything of what I just said regarding Kagami?

[Dunnstral]

What happened to your scumread on gamma?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Shadow Pair

Lol

[Dunnstral]

Shadow thoughts on kagami?

[Dunnstral]

Seeing how the last game went, I think it's better to push a lynch on your own partner instead of suiciding if you think they are scum.
Town have more info if there is a lynch.

Fwiw this almost exactly mirrored what I'd said to pie in our PT earlier. Minor possible partner points there, thought I'd like to think they wouldn't make that easy of an error.

I just came across this again and realized there's something really off about mhsmith here

His logic here is working off the assumption that scum have a daytalk pt... but he doesn't talk about that, and it's not written in the setup info that scum have daytalk

So what's this about?

[Dunnstral]

Pie~~~~~

why aren't you responding to shadow

[Dunnstral]

@Jester when do you intend on placing a vote?

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn
Scum had daytalk in the Autumn Masquerade (pretty much required with the nightless aspect)

Here comes gamma to white knight. mhsmith wasn't in autumn masquerade kiddo

[Dunnstral]

So while I know that, I'm wondering why mhsmith knew it.

[Dunnstral]

scummy

[Dunnstral]

But it's more likely gamma than you anyway

Just don't care if you die in the process

[Dunnstral]

But it's more likely gamma than you anyway

Just don't care if you die in the process

Back to the fence. HIL-LAR-RI-OUS!

It's not a fence because either way I vote the same slot.

[Dunnstral]

But it's more likely gamma than you anyway

Just don't care if you die in the process

Back to the fence. HIL-LAR-RI-OUS!

It's not a fence because either way I vote the same slot.

It gives you a backing out of my read when Maria flips scum.
Keep it up though.

Maria isn't flipping before you

[Dunnstral]

Also I'm pretty sure it has been said already
But if Shadow/Maria are both town Kagami is probably scum

If they are both town, you're scum.
Stop trying to push else where

So you'd be voting gamma if they flipped town?

[Dunnstral]

So by the inverse you think gamma scum = shadow town?

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think is scum jester

[Dunnstral]

Dunn has NO reads

[Dunnstral]

Okay, so... what are you doing?

What are you reads? Any tier list or anything?

I need a tier list to be figuring things out?


Though in fact I do have one. it's in my pt. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean I'm not trying to figure things out. I'm pushing on who I think is scum

[Dunnstral]

I've got ~reasons~ to keep some of my reads close. I'd prefer to just go for 2 obvious lynches, let the scum kill happen, and then come out with info. I'm also attempting to sort out Kagami

[Dunnstral]

When you say I have no reads it's so far from the truth though just chill

[Dunnstral]

@mhsmith thoughts on pie?

[Dunnstral]

When you say I have no reads it's so far from the truth though just chill

As of writing this you have 278 posts, more than 100 more than the next person.

If I bring a random person right now and show them the "activity list" table they would think you're like controlling and leading the town and super hardcore scumhunting and asking questions of everyone and everything and keeping tabs everywhere.

Meanwhile seriously I ISO you and I see

extremely

little.

Well they wouldn't be wrong. I am doing that stuff. I've been asking questions and if it looks like they go nowhere it's because I discuss it in my pt

I assure you I'll have a fun amount of stuff to show when needed

[Dunnstral]

Me and inspector have discussed more reads than I feel has been discussed in 70 pages of this thread.

Hypocritical, no?

[Dunnstral]

I understand you don't have a reason to think I wrote a lot

But why not ask people questions if you're curious?
I want to know how mhsmith pie is doing myself

[Dunnstral]

I'm p sure someone did that by then or some point in the game

Who

[Dunnstral]

I meant why not ask about their pt? Do you think only you have stuff in yours

[Dunnstral]

I mean if you're talking about mds jester specificslly then sure

[Dunnstral]

I think we should just flip a scummo and work from there.

As in a scumread or get a scumflip?

As in a big ol' scummer

[Dunnstral]

Anything in particular you think is notable on her end that I should be paying more attention to?

Nope. Just wondering what you thought as I hadn't figured your pair out

[Dunnstral]

but it's probably best for us to not lynch anyone today, let it go to deadline,

If it goes to deadline maf win

[Dunnstral]

There aren't standard kills either

Once we're down to 12 people alive (2 lynches) maf get 1 kill

After that it enters second dance and no more nightkills

[Dunnstral]

If the game runs out of time and at least one Mafia is still alive, then Mafia wins.

[Dunnstral]

Obviously the risk there is that people WON'T be able to come to accords adn we'll end up losing because town can't get their shit together and agree on a lynch.

Timer also resets after every lynch

[Dunnstral]

As opposed to creating real logs as scum?

??

[Dunnstral]

Obviously the risk there is that people WON'T be able to come to accords adn we'll end up losing because town can't get their shit together and agree on a lynch.

Timer also resets after every lynch

I'm aware?

That's an argument in favor of no lynching. Since it's not a straight 8 day deadline.

So you want to go to day 2 so mafia kill before we lynch anyone?

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure I agree

the chance that gamma-vedith for instance gets killed by mafia is approximately 0%

[Dunnstral]

He gives reads in the PT and we debate over them

yeah that's what I do and ser whats his face keeps calling me out

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure I agree

the chance that gamma-vedith for instance gets killed by mafia is approximately 0%

Okay, but like say the IC has a chance of 80%.

I'd personally give Parama/HC like 10-15%?

Not to sound arrogant or boastful but I'd give like me inspector 5-10% chance (mainly because I do have a fairly strong townread on inspector and I think we're both strong players that scum can be afraid of us).

None of those three pairs have received any meaningful pressure today.

[Dunnstral]

And I don't intend to lynch any of them before the kill for that reason anyway (aside from my reads)

[Dunnstral]

Dunn went up because from metaing him

wait really? lol

[Dunnstral]

Just surprised someone took the time to do that

[Dunnstral]

I might as well post my thoughts now

Dunn is more townier when he is scum

[Dunnstral]

I might as well post my thoughts now

Gonna change "now" to "later tonight"

I've got quite a bit I've been thinking about though so expect an above average sized post from me

[Dunnstral]

Maria TRs Dunnstral. I'm not so confident about him. Dunn is more townier when he is scum and his scum game is reading everyone as town(exaggeration. Try to get the point). This is from my exp with him.

I've played with wolf!Dunn once and it was while he was still doing his hyperaggressive/spammy playstyle, so was kinda hard to read (wolves swept ). i don't think I have a great meta on him, was null on him in that one and was kinda null on him in recent game when he was a mason.

I have one game where he was scum, dude had some opportunistic votes and I IDd him as a mafia, but got lynched D1 and the little twerp got everyone to ignore my points on him.

Then I got nightkilled by other mafia like 4 days later

[Dunnstral]

I kept defending ploben.

So was I

[Dunnstral]

ARE WE GETTING A FULL 6 LINES?!

I'm going to longpost

[Dunnstral]

Lol I'm starting to wonder if smith-pie is the only hood where both sides aren't just TRing each other.

Are you not reading my posts

Anyway I'm going to arrange all my reads and info

[Dunnstral]

Typing something up and realized mhsmith never saw or didn't answer my question:

Seeing how the last game went, I think it's better to push a lynch on your own partner instead of suiciding if you think they are scum.
Town have more info if there is a lynch.

Fwiw this almost exactly mirrored what I'd said to pie in our PT earlier. Minor possible partner points there, thought I'd like to think they wouldn't make that easy of an error.

I just came across this again and realized there's something really off about mhsmith here

His logic here is working off the assumption that scum have a daytalk pt... but he doesn't talk about that, and it's not written in the setup info that scum have daytalk

So what's this about?

Though maybe he just ctrl f's the thread?

@mhsmith0

[Dunnstral]

Also I think smith in particular played this game before

Right. If he had said that I'd have backed off from that reasoning

Do you remember who else was saying things like that? Because I don't

[Dunnstral]

"Again, I'm not a she, as much as the idea of being lesbian with Mini turns me on."

I really am sorry I keep misrepping your gender, it's an honest mistake I swear.

I'm calling bullshit on that, by the way. Nobody consistently works 18 hours a day straight without working themselves to death in the western world. If you worked 12h a day consistently, that's 84 hours a week. Even with one day off, that's 72 hours a week, not counting whatever days you work 'over'. That's the kind of work you see in the worst Japanese work places, and in Japan they die at their mid 30s from stress and the definitely don't have the time to play mafia or maintain any kind of personal relationships outside of work.
I know this is all kinda irrelevant to whether you're scummy or not but seeing people bullshit and make excuses to not play the game when it's so easily refutable may not be alignment-indicative, but it is asshole-indicative. Just like replacing out of a game despite being able to play it, and letting another player sub into an unwinnable position.

I didn't want a readlist, I asked you for a pinpoint read on who you think is most scummiest and who you want to lynch. I would prefer more solid reasoning than ~literally none~

fiesty

[Dunnstral]

Parama was just in this setup too so I guess it doesn't matter for both

[Dunnstral]

It's not a secret

Didn't see it in the setup info...

[Dunnstral]

Guess I'll be "that guy"

@mod Does town lost if time runs out in first phase, or does it go to the second dance phase after intermission?

[Dunnstral]

I can't see anything FakeGod has said that implies otherwi

That's why I'm "that guy"

[Dunnstral]

Thanks for the clarification fakegod


wait a minute

[Dunnstral]

1. Kagami - been suspecting her tens of pages back, already explained why. I'm not voting her because it wouldn't get traction.

But I was talking about it before =/

[Dunnstral]

Oh yea

I wrote that down actually

coming soon

I intended to write about everyone but it was mostly about Kagami and I got sidetracked a few times

[Dunnstral]

I'll start off with Kagami and this is going to be the longest one and contain the most new info... also I'm going to mix in reads on other people a lot here so bear with me I'm not that organized

First of all I may or may not be biased and want her to be town

I don't really know what she's doing. I asked why she wasn't responding to shadow in my pt and she said there was nothing for her to respond to. Thing is I know she her reads did transition in the pt but it didn't show in the main thread and she isn't defending herself so it looks bad. (Says she's posted enough for reads to be interpret-able and pie will get it)

Speaking of the pt, she's active in there too. She's got 65 posts in the main thread and ~60 in the pt and I'm willing to bet that's more than anybody else's half here (might be partially my influence as well)

Going to summarize some of Kagami's thoughts that I don't think need to be hidden (I'm outing mine too so)

-Really early in thinks jesterpair is correct choice. I agree with this
-Early on she thinks one of shadow-mariar and and gamma-vedith are town-town
-This read has shifted to now scumreading gamma, and thinking shadow-maria might be town-town
-Also thinks the ic pairing is town, along with us and hs-parama
-I've voiced suspicions on HS (mostly in-thread and tying in Kagami) while Kagami thinks HS is town but parama might need to be looked at (still thinks they're t-t for now)
. . . -I think Parama is town but question HS. Don't think either of us would lynch this right now/today though
-Says that if she were scum, she'd have paired with sickofit instead of me who scumread her
-Points out that jester townreads shadow but doesn't vote gamma though he scumreads gamma
. . . -This prompted me to ask about him intending to place a vote
. . . -Kagami made a good point very recently saying that Jester's townread on Parama is weird considering the strong townread on Shadow from the start


Note that when I pushed kagami as scum nobody bit, to the point where it seemed like everyone just said she was "lean town" when (imo) the read wasn't deserved
Based off of this I want to feel as if I'm not being pushed at all because I'm paired with Kagami.
In response kagami said she was a little offended that I assumed she was a weak scum player

As for her scumreads, they're jester, gamma, and mhsmith maybe in that order

In response to me she said if mhsmith were scum he'd be spending a low amount of effort sorting out his pt
. . . -This prompted me to ask mhsmith about his pt, to which the response from him and pie was that they hadn't really done anything (pie noted that mhsmith was 'passive')


Just from reading i got a gut townread on pie (not terribly important)
I feel as if mhsmith is mafia. I also feel good about Gamma being mafia

I've come to townread S.A.D and kagami agrees here. We're both "meh" on inspectorscout though it's not something that needs to be sorted immediately.
. . . -Kagami thinks that if mhsmith is scum this pair is very likely t-t


And that's all I have effort to write for now; ended up just being about Kagami... don't regret

To sum up my other reads:

I scumread mhsmith. In fact;
VOTE: Mhsmith-Pieguy

I still scumread gamma pair

Kagami suspects Jester pair
Current thoughts on Kagami pending

[Dunnstral]

it resets the timer

if two people walk off mafia then get their kill

[Dunnstral]

two people as in two pairs

[Dunnstral]

Nice analysis of my post

Flip happens when walking off I believe

[Dunnstral]

I think he pretty much townslipped with the daychat thing.

Did you miss where I was just in a setup of this type (same game as parama/hs/maria/sickofit/gamma/vedo)

[Dunnstral]

Also it totally slipped my mind but I have some suspicion on mds as well

ok goodnight all

[Dunnstral]

Her reads on shadow was progresding I think. Can't check now but I also know she thought shadow needed death regardless


Daychat thing was just seeing why mhsmith knew but he was apparently in an even older setup I hadn't seen

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

mhsmith-pie needs to be closely scrutinized but it definitely doesn't need to be today when we have shadowmariar, jestermds and vedithgamma all very helpful and informative lynch targets which are all likely to hit scum and every single pair can't be classified as t-t by a longshot.
Dunn's incredible lust to point the wagon literally anywhere else is concerning.

I really think (and parma agrees) that this DP is dragging on without flips. Namely shadow.

This is pretty disgusting by the way. You completely ignored the main point of my post

[Dunnstral]

Wait a sec everyone ignored that post

[Dunnstral]

Also if me/Vedith/Shadow/Maria all flip town, look at people like Kagami who were votehopping with very little logic

Glad this is going

How about this:

I'll start off with Kagami and this is going to be the longest one and contain the most new info... also I'm going to mix in reads on other people a lot here so bear with me I'm not that organized

First of all I may or may not be biased and want her to be town

I don't really know what she's doing. I asked why she wasn't responding to shadow in my pt and she said there was nothing for her to respond to. Thing is I know she her reads did transition in the pt but it didn't show in the main thread and she isn't defending herself so it looks bad. (Says she's posted enough for reads to be interpret-able and pie will get it)

Speaking of the pt, she's active in there too. She's got 65 posts in the main thread and ~60 in the pt and I'm willing to bet that's more than anybody else's half here (might be partially my influence as well)

Going to summarize some of Kagami's thoughts that I don't think need to be hidden (I'm outing mine too so)

-Really early in thinks jesterpair is correct choice. I agree with this
-Early on she thinks one of shadow-mariar and and gamma-vedith are town-town
-This read has shifted to now scumreading gamma, and thinking shadow-maria might be town-town
-Also thinks the ic pairing is town, along with us and hs-parama
-I've voiced suspicions on HS (mostly in-thread and tying in Kagami) while Kagami thinks HS is town but parama might need to be looked at (still thinks they're t-t for now)
. . . -I think Parama is town but question HS. Don't think either of us would lynch this right now/today though
-Says that if she were scum, she'd have paired with sickofit instead of me who scumread her
-Points out that jester townreads shadow but doesn't vote gamma though he scumreads gamma
. . . -This prompted me to ask about him intending to place a vote
. . . -Kagami made a good point very recently saying that Jester's townread on Parama is weird considering the strong townread on Shadow from the start


Note that when I pushed kagami as scum nobody bit, to the point where it seemed like everyone just said she was "lean town" when (imo) the read wasn't deserved
Based off of this I want to feel as if I'm not being pushed at all because I'm paired with Kagami.
In response kagami said she was a little offended that I assumed she was a weak scum player

As for her scumreads, they're jester, gamma, and mhsmith maybe in that order

In response to me she said if mhsmith were scum he'd be spending a low amount of effort sorting out his pt
. . . -This prompted me to ask mhsmith about his pt, to which the response from him and pie was that they hadn't really done anything (pie noted that mhsmith was 'passive')


Just from reading i got a gut townread on pie (not terribly important)
I feel as if mhsmith is mafia. I also feel good about Gamma being mafia

I've come to townread S.A.D and kagami agrees here. We're both "meh" on inspectorscout though it's not something that needs to be sorted immediately.
. . . -Kagami thinks that if mhsmith is scum this pair is very likely t-t


And that's all I have effort to write for now; ended up just being about Kagami... don't regret

To sum up my other reads:

I scumread mhsmith. In fact;
VOTE: Mhsmith-Pieguy

I still scumread gamma pair

Kagami suspects Jester pair
Current thoughts on Kagami pending

[Dunnstral]

I actually doubt Gamma and Kagami are scum together. There might be no scum in {Maria, Shadow, Gamma, Vedith} after all.

Why? (the first part)

[Dunnstral]

You can't retract requests btw (pretty sure)

[Dunnstral]

I mean, we've seen him replace out with no regrets as scum from a game that looked like an easy win for him, so

It was only easy because his pal killed me and town totally forgot I ever existed.

Exactly what I'm afraid is going to happen this game.

There's a 1 in 8,000 chance for getting scum twice.

3% actually, if we're talking 3/18 scum in both games.

3% = 8000.231
So I was close enough.

Yeah the chance of getting scum twice in a row isn't 3/8000 or 3%

[Dunnstral]

Can we slow down please
Can somebody respond to my large post

[Dunnstral]

I'll start off with Kagami and this is going to be the longest one and contain the most new info... also I'm going to mix in reads on other people a lot here so bear with me I'm not that organized

First of all I may or may not be biased and want her to be town

I don't really know what she's doing. I asked why she wasn't responding to shadow in my pt and she said there was nothing for her to respond to. Thing is I know she her reads did transition in the pt but it didn't show in the main thread and she isn't defending herself so it looks bad. (Says she's posted enough for reads to be interpret-able and pie will get it)

Speaking of the pt, she's active in there too. She's got 65 posts in the main thread and ~60 in the pt and I'm willing to bet that's more than anybody else's half here (might be partially my influence as well)

Going to summarize some of Kagami's thoughts that I don't think need to be hidden (I'm outing mine too so)

-Really early in thinks jesterpair is correct choice. I agree with this
-Early on she thinks one of shadow-mariar and and gamma-vedith are town-town
-This read has shifted to now scumreading gamma, and thinking shadow-maria might be town-town
-Also thinks the ic pairing is town, along with us and hs-parama
-I've voiced suspicions on HS (mostly in-thread and tying in Kagami) while Kagami thinks HS is town but parama might need to be looked at (still thinks they're t-t for now)
. . . -I think Parama is town but question HS. Don't think either of us would lynch this right now/today though
-Says that if she were scum, she'd have paired with sickofit instead of me who scumread her
-Points out that jester townreads shadow but doesn't vote gamma though he scumreads gamma
. . . -This prompted me to ask about him intending to place a vote
. . . -Kagami made a good point very recently saying that Jester's townread on Parama is weird considering the strong townread on Shadow from the start


Note that when I pushed kagami as scum nobody bit, to the point where it seemed like everyone just said she was "lean town" when (imo) the read wasn't deserved
Based off of this I want to feel as if I'm not being pushed at all because I'm paired with Kagami.
In response kagami said she was a little offended that I assumed she was a weak scum player

As for her scumreads, they're jester, gamma, and mhsmith maybe in that order

In response to me she said if mhsmith were scum he'd be spending a low amount of effort sorting out his pt
. . . -This prompted me to ask mhsmith about his pt, to which the response from him and pie was that they hadn't really done anything (pie noted that mhsmith was 'passive')


Just from reading i got a gut townread on pie (not terribly important)
I feel as if mhsmith is mafia. I also feel good about Gamma being mafia

I've come to townread S.A.D and kagami agrees here. We're both "meh" on inspectorscout though it's not something that needs to be sorted immediately.
. . . -Kagami thinks that if mhsmith is scum this pair is very likely t-t


And that's all I have effort to write for now; ended up just being about Kagami... don't regret

To sum up my other reads:

I scumread mhsmith. In fact;
VOTE: Mhsmith-Pieguy

I still scumread gamma pair

Kagami suspects Jester pair
Current thoughts on Kagami pending

Forget about the vote on mhsmith if you have to

[Dunnstral]

3. A read on mhsmith. Obviously mhsmith is exempt from this. Again, I'm having a really difficult time sorting this slot.

mhsmith-pie needs to be closely scrutinized but it definitely doesn't need to be today when we have shadowmariar, jestermds and vedithgamma all very helpful and informative lynch targets which are all likely to hit scum and every single pair can't be classified as t-t by a longshot.
Dunn's incredible lust to point the wagon literally anywhere else is concerning.

[Dunnstral]

Not sure if going to night is worth it anymore. :/

Considering we have 8 days left again

Depends on if "nolynch" is an available vote for me rather than running down timer

Nahdia pls, what do you think of Kagami/my post

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: mhsmith-pieguyn

mhsmith is thoroughly underwhelming this game

[Dunnstral]

The_Jester - MiniDeathStar
Ser Arthur Dayne - inspectorscout
mhsmith0 - pieguyn

These are the pairs I'm officially marking for death.

I can actually agree with this to some extent

What's your read on sadboy

[Dunnstral]

For the record, they are: Kagami, mhsmith, 1 of {inspector, Arthur, pieguyn (or smith)}

so same groups as the ic?

[Dunnstral]

The only slot here who is posting a shitload for little reason is dunnstral.

[Dunnstral]

I dont scumread him
But he's got me worrying both by PoE and a feeling I'm being played

Obviously i want mds dead before because its part of why i think im being played

Why do you feel like you're being played?

[Dunnstral]

In what situation do we get people "sheeping the ic, and not being held accountable"

[Dunnstral]

One did so blatantly, one did so subtly.

Hope you're not talking about me "sheeping her" when I was voting mhsmith before vedith suicided

[Dunnstral]

You mean scout right

[Dunnstral]

But he also calls question to his own slot

[Dunnstral]

She's trying to indicate that it's not pieguy if it's smith

but it could be pieguy

[Dunnstral]

I'll inform you about it when i know more, dunn.

feelscopoutman

[Dunnstral]

fyi you're the lady

[Dunnstral]

Wait who are you talking about

[Dunnstral]

before my flip.

huh?

[Dunnstral]

*if* I'm to leave, I'd like if some people could talk to me about SAD/inspectorscout in particular, since I've noticed a lot of scum reads on both of them that I don't understand at all and if it was up to me I'd want that pair alive at endgame. I recall SAD's posts generally being solid (even if kinda abrasive) and I'm not even sure why people seem to find inspectorscout's posts scummy (going off memory here; if I'm wrong correct me).

The consesnsus between Kagami and I seems to be that SAD is towny and scout is "meh"

[Dunnstral]

Not really his posts

He hasn't done much notable or towny and I'd say we haven't sorted him

[Dunnstral]

It doesn't

Who did you tie arthur too

[Dunnstral]

mhsmith who do you scumread?

[Dunnstral]

What pie says makes sense btw and I wouldn't mind that

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Jester-MiniDeathStar

[Dunnstral]

I have a town read on Kagami, for the very basic reason that I am almost positive that scum-Kagami in this player list plays a much more straight-shot scum game instead of what she's been doing here (which has mostly just been pushing her own agenda). I recall her being a very pragmatic scum player, and I am fairly sure that no one besides me in this player list is familiar with her play style and that she is like me in that she can play a fairly town-looking textbook scum game to people who aren't familiar with her meta, so not really much of a reason to not do it - the alternative is that she did this and then once I'm dead she's kinda stuck in the ass with no one left defending her play and a lot of people left scum reading her without much recourse.

I've also been paying attention to her reads somewhat and I haven't seen any off notes from her in terms of the pushes she's been making. even the more esoteric reads like MDS/Jester potentially being a scum pair came off as reasonable to me.

if their pair gets lynched and it's town/town, I'd be pretty likely to want to start lynching through the wagon.

How much experience do you have with her?

[Dunnstral]

So how strong would you say your read is

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

Sir
jest
human
====
inspectorscout
Kagami
Pie
for me atm

What is this

[Dunnstral]

are those all scumreads

[Dunnstral]

What's going on

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: mhsmith0-pieguyn

[Dunnstral]

You

[Dunnstral]

I'll start off with Kagami and this is going to be the longest one and contain the most new info... also I'm going to mix in reads on other people a lot here so bear with me I'm not that organized

First of all I may or may not be biased and want her to be town

I don't really know what she's doing. I asked why she wasn't responding to shadow in my pt and she said there was nothing for her to respond to. Thing is I know she her reads did transition in the pt but it didn't show in the main thread and she isn't defending herself so it looks bad. (Says she's posted enough for reads to be interpret-able and pie will get it)

Speaking of the pt, she's active in there too. She's got 65 posts in the main thread and ~60 in the pt and I'm willing to bet that's more than anybody else's half here (might be partially my influence as well)

Going to summarize some of Kagami's thoughts that I don't think need to be hidden (I'm outing mine too so)

-Really early in thinks jesterpair is correct choice. I agree with this
-Early on she thinks one of shadow-mariar and and gamma-vedith are town-town
-This read has shifted to now scumreading gamma, and thinking shadow-maria might be town-town
-Also thinks the ic pairing is town, along with us and hs-parama
-I've voiced suspicions on HS (mostly in-thread and tying in Kagami) while Kagami thinks HS is town but parama might need to be looked at (still thinks they're t-t for now)
. . . -I think Parama is town but question HS. Don't think either of us would lynch this right now/today though
-Says that if she were scum, she'd have paired with sickofit instead of me who scumread her
-Points out that jester townreads shadow but doesn't vote gamma though he scumreads gamma
. . . -This prompted me to ask about him intending to place a vote
. . . -Kagami made a good point very recently saying that Jester's townread on Parama is weird considering the strong townread on Shadow from the start


Note that when I pushed kagami as scum nobody bit, to the point where it seemed like everyone just said she was "lean town" when (imo) the read wasn't deserved
Based off of this I want to feel as if I'm not being pushed at all because I'm paired with Kagami.
In response kagami said she was a little offended that I assumed she was a weak scum player

As for her scumreads, they're jester, gamma, and mhsmith maybe in that order

In response to me she said if mhsmith were scum he'd be spending a low amount of effort sorting out his pt
. . . -This prompted me to ask mhsmith about his pt, to which the response from him and pie was that they hadn't really done anything (pie noted that mhsmith was 'passive')


Just from reading i got a gut townread on pie (not terribly important)
I feel as if mhsmith is mafia. I also feel good about Gamma being mafia

I've come to townread S.A.D and kagami agrees here. We're both "meh" on inspectorscout though it's not something that needs to be sorted immediately.
. . . -Kagami thinks that if mhsmith is scum this pair is very likely t-t


And that's all I have effort to write for now; ended up just being about Kagami... don't regret

To sum up my other reads:

I scumread mhsmith. In fact;
VOTE: Mhsmith-Pieguy

I still scumread gamma pair

Kagami suspects Jester pair
Current thoughts on Kagami pending

This too but I can see why you wouldn't want to quote it

I didn't say you weren't doing anything (as in lurking out) You've been posting but it seems you post to not get lynched, rather than to find scum.

I don't know why you're confused by my vote, but you shouldn't be.

[Dunnstral]

Also the fact that you're not reading my posts and said something like "are me and pie the only ones who don't tr each other"

[Dunnstral]

Lol I'm starting to wonder if smith-pie is the only hood where both sides aren't just TRing each other.

[Dunnstral]

Speaking of that, Nahdia has her doubts about me. *shrug*

This is the kind of thing better left to your pt and talked about if you guys aren't killed.

[Dunnstral]

What's your reasoning for mentioning that right now?

[Dunnstral]

Other than that, he's adopted my fatalistic attitude to a degree and

occasionally gloated about Human Sequencer's expression after we both flip town, which I thought was also genuine.

There's also the fact he keeps 'testing' me every now and then and doesn't blindly accept that I'm town, which I think is not what scum!Jester would do (I think he'd try to butter me up instead).

Jester/mds is irrelevant and can be solved another day.

Where does HS say they think jester/MDS pair is scum? Why would Jester be gloating about their expression, or mention her?

[Dunnstral]

What's your reason for asking me what my reason for mentioning it is? Is there any answer I could possibly give that's more helpful to town than scum?

So you're going to play that card huh

How is what you just said about Nahdia's suspicion on you more helpful to town than scum?

[Dunnstral]

Where?

All I've seen is a shadow push

[Dunnstral]

When I'm not sure the target will flip scum, yeah.

Also the fact that you're not reading my posts and said something like "are me and pie the only ones who don't tr each other"

wrt 1893, read the last couple pages before that post. HS-Parama mutual TR, MR-shadow seemed pretty comfortable with each other (though re-skimming a TR wasn't explicit around that point), Gamma was hard TR'ing Vedith, and SAD-scout had been pro each other sometime back (IIRC Jester-MDS had been comfortable w each othertoo). So the idea that there were a bunch of seemingly cheap partner town reads floating around was IMO pretty accurate (though sure, you seem to be an exclusion from that).

I had a lot of posts that was the exclusion from that, you didn't acknowledge any of them and said that so I assume you hadn't read them or cared.

[Dunnstral]

....

....

That's essentially the same question I already refused to answer.

Noted.

[Dunnstral]

This too but I can see why you wouldn't want to quote it

I didn't say you weren't doing anything (as in lurking out)

You've been posting but it seems you post to not get lynched, rather than to find scum.

I don't know why you're confused by my vote, but you shouldn't be.

I'm kinda curious about this one. What exactly do you mean by that? There seems to be an implication here that I'm being fundamentally survivalistic (bandwagoning? UTR? something else?), or that my questions or just for show, or something similar. What exactly are you seeing that makes you think this?

I didn't say you were survivalistic, I said you were posting to not get lynched (i.e. you're not lurking out because you don't want to be "policy" lynched)
It doesn't look like you're trying to figure the game out (in terms of player's alignments; setup spec doesn't matter)

[Dunnstral]

which is consistent with my having not really paid that much attention to you.

Why?

[Dunnstral]

In your opinion, is having (or at least displaying) a lack of awareness of what you've been saying representative of my caring too much about pushes on me (and by extension, your push)?

It means you're not reading or responding to posts where I'm trying to gamesolve.

[Dunnstral]

I'm being serious though. Half the town obviously has some level of scumread on us, and I don't think anybody *alive* is considering us town-town, but we aren't getting enough votes. The mafia are saving us for the final mislynch.

How to play to wincon in this setup, vs what people are actually likely to do, by smith

If you're a villager

If/when you feel your lynch is inevitable, you should still fight it and ensure that if you are lynched, maximal information is gained from the loss (and if it turns out your partner is a wolf, even better to actually have the process be an actual lynch)
Villagers will actually tend to give up because "I'm helping the town since I'm going down anyway" (even though they flagrantly aren't helping the town while doing this) or "screw you guys for suspecting me" (because it's easier than actually engaging meaningfully with the stated suspicions). This is because villagers tend to be lazy about considering what it means to be a villager, and/or tend to take self-destructive moves out of pique.

If you're a wolf

If/when you feel your lynch is inevitable, wolves should leave the dance to deprive town of useful voting information
Wolves will actually tend to fight their lynch though because they're survivalistic in nature, and/or underestimate the chance that they'll actually get lynched

This has been a PSA by smith. You're welcome.

I'd define this as setup spec and not gamesolving.

Also, it looks like you're setting up here to justify pushes on people who fight their lynch (oh they must be scum)

And then you actually do that:

@Maria: It seems like you're being a bit survivalistic lately, which is a bit weird to me given how flagrantly you gave up in open 646. Am I over-valuing that one game in terms of your meta under fire? Are there other games you can point to where you're relatively more interested in fighting your lynch when town?

[Dunnstral]

Because you had nearly 400 posts and it's a pain to go through all of them, and I don't recall anything having especially pinged me as scummy while skimming. Why do you think that I should have been paying more attention to you?

So you're underestimating me even after stack the deck

[Dunnstral]

Do my engagements on/about scout, gamma, and jester look like non-solving, or is it just that I haven't had enough of them?

Stuff like this, which you link, doesn't look like you trying to figure things out.

Vedith, before you leave, consider the possibility of all 4 of us being Town. We need to lynch elsewhere to see if we're being set up before we make any final calls.

oh, you're scum
VOTE: gamma

Obviously the risk there is that people WON'T be able to come to accords adn we'll end up losing because town can't get their shit together and agree on a lynch.

This is my main issue. With how the dynamic between me/Vedith and MariaR/ShadowStep is, lynching in first dance IS in our best interest so we can sort some slots before we enter the crunch time of second dance.

^this was gamma's old opinion btw, now just a generic "maybe we shoudl lynch elsewhere" (while still voting SS and not pushing elsewhere)

Obviously the risk there is that people WON'T be able to come to accords adn we'll end up losing because town can't get their shit together and agree on a lynch.

This is my main issue. With how the dynamic between me/Vedith and MariaR/ShadowStep is, lynching in first dance IS in our best interest so we can sort some slots before we enter the crunch time of second dance.

^this was gamma's old opinion btw, now just a generic "maybe we shoudl lynch elsewhere" (while still voting SS and not pushing elsewhere)

I am pushing elsewhere. I'm not voting elsewhere because EVERYONE'S STUCK ON THE SAME THREE WAGONS

Yes, definitely not possible to start a new wagon and push an actual case.

If Vedith does decide to be an idiot and leave PLEASE think before blindly wagoning Shadow/MariaR.

I can't even tell if he's spewing them town or wolf here though

BECAUSE I THINK THEY COULD BE ALL TOWN
I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT IN A FALSE DICHOTOMY/TRICHOTOMY

Yeah but that's just generic. What makes you think that it's LIKELY that we have v/v/v wagons?

My posts between start of gamma push and gamma lynch. "Baiting" vedith into suiciding was where exactly?

[Dunnstral]

First of all you're not playing the same as you were in that one other game (you see to be suggesting I'd townread you here or at least look at you more carefully - I have looked at you and think you're scum)
How does the post your linked show a lack of critical engagement on my part?

Also, I'm not confbiased

[Dunnstral]

mhsmith I don't even know what you're arguing right now

I think you're different in a sense that you're here and not just flaking out but still doing nothing, and you're just

off

[Dunnstral]

If Hs wants to talk to me they can.

[Dunnstral]

unsure:
{dunn,

Good chance of hs being scum

[Dunnstral]

@mhsmith and dunn

I'm being serious though. Half the town obviously has some level of scumread on us, and I don't think anybody *alive* is considering us town-town, but we aren't getting enough votes. The mafia are saving us for the final mislynch.

How to play to wincon in this setup, vs what people are actually likely to do, by smith

If you're a villager

If/when you feel your lynch is inevitable, you should still fight it and ensure that if you are lynched, maximal information is gained from the loss (and if it turns out your partner is a wolf, even better to actually have the process be an actual lynch)
Villagers will actually tend to give up because "I'm helping the town since I'm going down anyway" (even though they flagrantly aren't helping the town while doing this) or "screw you guys for suspecting me" (because it's easier than actually engaging meaningfully with the stated suspicions). This is because villagers tend to be lazy about considering what it means to be a villager, and/or tend to take self-destructive moves out of pique.

If you're a wolf

If/when you feel your lynch is inevitable, wolves should leave the dance to deprive town of useful voting information
Wolves will actually tend to fight their lynch though because they're survivalistic in nature, and/or underestimate the chance that they'll actually get lynched

This has been a PSA by smith. You're welcome.

this is like one of the best, most insightful and most pro-town posts in the game, and you can't say he just did it for town cred.
why not?
because it's not an effective way for smith to get towncred if people have spent half the game berating him for doing nothing but setup speculation.
i don't think anybody can argue what he's saying isn't true, and it's clear smith knows what he's saying because he's saying it (lol). bringing light to it does not make sense for a scummy scum. scumSmith has no motivation whatsoever to make that post, and it harms his win condition -greatly-

Also, I really don't like Human Sequencer dropping these random townreads. If smith's town, Kagami's town, Arthur's town, then who is left to be the scum? Shadow, Jester, and? Cerberus? You?

You don't *actually* think Maria or I are scum together with our partners, do you?

this post is so bad
remember the whole 'i'm partnering with jester regardless of alignment' thing? remember that whole saga? i do. the fact that you paired w/ jester is nai, it doesn't point against you both being scum because you were a lock pairing, in the same way that i was asking parma to dance at the start of this game.
i'm not trying to insinuate that you -are- both scum, i'm pointing out the fact that you have said something completely contradictory with something you've said earlier in a dismissive tone in a way that looks like an intentional discredit.

as for the first half of the post, here's another interpretation

I don't like Human reading town as town, solving the game and using PoE to find scum. I'm going to discredit the approach by making an absurd logical leap to make him look bad.

Spoiler: confirmation on pieguyn's alignment

should I stay, dear? or should I make both of us feel the sweet embrace of death together?~

here's a fun idea.

if mhsmith0 wants to live, he gets on his hands and knees and ~begs~ for it. that sounds fun, right?

I disagree that it's one of the best, most insightful, pro-town posts of the game. By a lot.l Looks like we're going to have a problem.

[Dunnstral]

HS - mhsmith - ???

MDS or Kagami?

[Dunnstral]

Scout is pushing me, sees you defending me, and associates your defense with being my partner. It's a pretty natural read in the circumstance, and makes me a bit more comfortable with the idea that he simply is a townie who thinks I'm a wolf.

Coincidentally, I also think he is a townie (?) who thinks you are a wolf

[Dunnstral]

Your pushing on pie looks fake

[Dunnstral]

Rather it IS fake because you just throw out vague things like that but then when I scumread your slot you turn on me pretty hard when you were ignoring me before

[Dunnstral]

but now think Shadow-Parama pair is likely.

Probably not...

[Dunnstral]

I disagree. My reasoning is fine.

[Dunnstral]

And anyone who agrees with me ^ should be voting mhsmith.

[Dunnstral]

The idea that my push on Maria was somehow hypocritical with the post I'd made a few minutes before is incredibly lazy

I don't remember ever saying that.

[Dunnstral]

Your pushing on pie looks fake

Ps I'm null on pie, which ought to be relatively obvious at this point.

Yea. One of the reasons I started voting you. Then you fake went "it might be pie" but never tried to figure her out

[Dunnstral]

Alright, I'm down for dunn. [unofficial]

ok,

Accept Dunn.

This should be interesting.

Grand total of 3 minutes to decide.

Actually I kinda want to know from all the ladies who didn't talk about it ITT:

What made you accept your partners, both in terms of who you picked and when (especially those that made a relatively quick choice)?

Why did you drop this?

[Dunnstral]

Your pushing on pie looks fake

Ps I'm null on pie, which ought to be relatively obvious at this point.

Yea. One of the reasons I started voting you. Then you fake went "it might be pie" but never tried to figure her out

This suggests that there is substantial evidence that I could have used to figure her out. Remind me what such evidence is? Or do you mean I should have been more active in our shared PT?

You're making assumptions about people pushing your slot without considering it's alignment. What if you're town and pie is scum?

Rather it's the opposite; you're slipping and know pie is town and using that knowledge.

[Dunnstral]

The idea that my push on Maria was somehow hypocritical with the post I'd made a few minutes before is incredibly lazy

I don't remember ever saying that.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8602415

The idea that I'd intentionally push Maria essentially for doing what I'd just finished saying that town should do is basically an accusation of hypocrisy. You actually accused me of "setting up" for a push on her from the earlier post, which I guess is actually a different accusation, though also equally dumb, especially given the context of my meta with her and the fact that it was a very clear request for info rather than an attack. It was super reachy on your end.

I don't see how it's an accusation of "hypocrisy"

You made a scummy post and then a scummy push on a popular wagon

[Dunnstral]

No you said that town would be more likely to give up, while scum would fight their lynch

You then said Maria fighting her lynch was unusual

[Dunnstral]

It's not reachy

You say I'm scum because I'm pushing you. That implies that you believe pie is town, unless you think I'm bussing pie by pushing you

[Dunnstral]

What do you think about people if pie is scum?

[Dunnstral]

You keep acting like the only reason I'm pushing you is the Maria thing, when I've layed out other reasoning. That's scummy.

[Dunnstral]

though a weird bus there on your partners lover probably isn't necessarily outside your range,

[Dunnstral]

I've explained how it's different multiple times, though?

You were flaking out in that other game

You're not flaking out in this game. You're posting... but doing nothing.

Once I started pushing you, you started posting like a madman as well. Another reason you're scum this game (If I recall, while you posted more you never reached near this level of posting before)

[Dunnstral]

though a weird bus there on your partners lover probably isn't necessarily outside your range,

So you'd agree or disagree that "'bus' the town in my buddy's pair" is a thing you'd be capable of considering and potentially doing?

I'd certainly be capable of doing it.

I probably wouldn't be doing it.