Ttyll Mafia - Game Over!

[Gale Wing Srock]

Hey checking in!

[Gale Wing Srock]

and 3 in ours makes 17

happy now?

I suppose.

The good news is, everyone can now inception this game.

Scumhunt in your hood, scumhunt in the main thread.

Is it me? or do you guys think that Peregrine's enthusiasm seems scum driven?

[Gale Wing Srock]

VOTE: Wisdom

I think this is Wisdom's scum play.

[Gale Wing Srock]

VOTE: Wisdom

I think this is Wisdom's scum play.

Great, I like easy day 1 lynches.
Why?

Also, thought on PV now?

My experience with Wisdom as scum.

Would like to see more, and please don't distract.

[Gale Wing Srock]

why would there be one scum per hood

Scum would have had pre chat (Going by Ircher), so tactically, they would spread themselves out.
I can confirm that there is only 1 other in my hood. I suspect this person as scum due to this.

I initially thought this might be a good point but I didn't receive my role PM until the day after I had chosen my planet.

Not sure if this is the case for everyone.

mod: were PTs pre-determined or determined by our choice of nation?

Assuming we all had a choice of nations to choose from (not sure if scums got an equal or restricted choice), if scums wanted to divide themselves, they could have picked different nations for each of them.

That is definitely a rational possibility.
However I would greatly appreciate if someone can summarize the hood information that we have available as public information.
Because I think the number of nation choices would have to match the hoods for that to be feasible (Will read back in detail when I get some more time).

[Gale Wing Srock]

Since it's not pre-determined, its really NAI, there can be no setup spec or mod guessing. Everyone should reveal who their neighbors are.

I do not understand this, explain / link please?

[Gale Wing Srock]

VOTE: Wisdom

I think this is Wisdom's scum play.

tell me about how you know about what my scum play and what my town play is when you only have a single game with me

@Wisdom: During the game I played with you, I read your games where you were town for meta knowledge. It didn't help me then, but this game I can see that you are not playing like your townie self at all. Infact, I am getting the same feeling as I got that game on Day 1. => you are more likely to be scum this game.

+ your flailing is making my scum read more certain, because Townie Wisdom would bring more clarity to the game then calling people stupid / ignorant.

[Gale Wing Srock]

V/LA for

a few days

four years while I process last night

Lol

Trump rocks baby \o/

[Gale Wing Srock]

Assuming we all had a choice of nations to choose from (not sure if scums got an equal or restricted choice), if scums wanted to divide themselves, they could have picked different nations for each of them.

Why dont people read the gane

For the second time, we got role PMs AFTER choosing a nation

Okay why do you think the scums couldn't have got the Role PM after choosing a nation?

It is possible for them to start the game in a thread with no one getting their role pm.

I don't believe Town Wisdom can overlook that fact, it is clearly scum Wisdom over acting ignorance.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay, I would like to give the benefit of doubt to Wisdom.

UNVOTE: Wisdom

Well, the kid has 6 posts, 4 are about his V/LA or saying he was off, and 2 were salutations.

I don't like this post, as IIOA are fillers used to hide things.

484 is an example of this too.

Also I looked back on this one.

259 DS kind of forced Mirhawk to tell why its advantages to reveal hood info, 263 then tells him that it is useless now that Mirhawk has revealed that info.

Seems to me like forcing a play into revealing hood information.

Also he was going back and forth on it, as though passive aggressively trying to force out Hood info, while still trying to avoid any back lash that may come from it.

475 is an example to that.

And I don't understand 491 and 494.

Why are you trusting PV so much? And why does Wisdom fall into that criteria, almost every player who has played a few games in this site and whose alignment is difficult to read falls into that criteria.

So you would also fill that slot, isn't that correct?

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay why do you think the scums couldn't have got the Role PM after choosing a nation?

It is possible for them to start the game in a thread with no one getting their role pm.

that's stupid and you don't really believe that

This is not stupid; and I do believe that, it could be the case.

Tell me the reasons why you think this is stupid.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale what changed? You were all "town wisdom doesnt do x and y", why do i get a benefit of the doubt now? Is it because mara got a townread for it?

That is not how things work, I asked you a question, and I would like an answer to that.

Question v

Okay why do you think the scums couldn't have got the Role PM after choosing a nation?

It is possible for them to start the game in a thread with no one getting their role pm.

that's stupid and you don't really believe that

This is not stupid; and I do believe that, it could be the case.

Tell me the reasons why you think this is stupid.

Should have put the question mark there I suppose -_-'

Anyways, I will answer yours as an advance.

My read on you is simple, I have read your town games and I was confused by your play in Shos' Critically Experimental game.

Post game kind of gave me an idea of what you would do, and when I read this game during Dawn 1, I understood that you aren't playing your town game (Coherent thoughts, Focused and Spreading Clarity to others game)
=> There is more chance of you being scum this game.

I would personally rate that 60-40 to you being scum.

Then you started flailing, and I don't expect a veteran townie to flail so that is 70-30 to you being scum.

After your wagon reached L-2, I tried to understand who would benefit more from a quick Wisdom lynch and obviously the answer that came to my mind was that, if the 30% chance that you could be town this game is true, then DS would be the one.

---

Mind you, DS was not making any sense with his posts, kind of the reason why it made me go back to see what he was all about this game.

Found out that his thoughts are not coherent, he wants to out hoods and is not making any progress to the game for any of us. Seems like all his focus is on getting Wisdom lynched somehow. He wouldn't even consider a possibility of Wisdom being town.

See players play differently for different reasons, their meta might change, their attitude might change due to bad / good days in life, but what they bring to the game matters.

We have seen what Wisdom did under pressure, and we have seen what DS does with two votes on him. Keep your votes where it matters for you, and ask questions to yourself as to why Town / Scum Wisdom or Town / Scum DS would do what they are doing. That is the easiest way to progress on our reads and that is what I am doing now.

[Gale Wing Srock]

1. THERE WAS LITERALLY NOTHING TO ANALYZE FROM HIS CONTENT. AND BESIDES, IT WAS AN ATTEMPT TO GET SOMEONE ELSE TO FUCKING POST BECAUSE IM SICK OF SITTING HERE REFRESHING THE GOD DAMNED GAME WHILE IM AVOIDING DOING HOMEWORK BECAUSE THIS SITE HAS TURNED INTO 3 ACTUAL POSTERS PER GAME AND 70 LURKERS.

Why don't you read Wisdom's prior games, see where he had shown similar play and what was his alignment in that game.
That would definitely help show us why Wisdom is more likely scum this game and would strengthen our read.

That is an analysis you can do instead of being passive and posting junk info that people can figure out themselves.

[Gale Wing Srock]

@Gale
I still call bullshit on all of your delusions that you can pinpoint what i do and what i dont as each alignment, but that answer will do
As for your question i wont answer it because its stupid

Now you are being stupid.

I asked you why it is stupid.

If you cannot answer why something is stupid for you, then are you being intelligent or stupid yourself?

[Gale Wing Srock]

2. That's the exact opposite of what I wanted. I wanted Mirhawk to give the reasons why it WASNT good to reveal information. I am on the reveal information side. Learn to fucking read.

That is basically forcing people into doing what you want them to do.

And that is exactly what you were called out for in the below statement v
259 DS kind of

forced

Mirhawk to tell why its advantages to reveal hood info, 263 then tells him that it is useless now that Mirhawk has revealed that info.

Forcing players to do something you want = Manipulation = Scum trait

[Gale Wing Srock]

fine
If one person got to choose a nation before getting a role PM, it means every person got the same choice
It does not make sense that scum got role PMs before choosing a nation

Who told that scums got role PMs before choosing a nation?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Edit for 528.

2. That's the exact opposite of what I wanted. I wanted Mirhawk to give the reasons why it WASNT good to reveal information. I am on the reveal information side. Learn to fucking read.

That is basically forcing people into doing what you want them to do.

And that is exactly what you were called out for in the below statement v

259 DS kind of forced Mirhawk to tell why its advantages to reveal hood info, 263 then tells him that it is useless now that Mirhawk has revealed that info.

Seems to me like forcing a play into revealing hood information.

Forcing players to do something you want = Manipulation = Scum trait

[Gale Wing Srock]

It is possible for them to start the game in a thread with no one getting their role pm.

^
thats equally ridiculous
where have you seen people knowing they are scum before getting their role PM?

I am saying that it is possible, as per game design.

Although that is a good question, let me see if there is a precedent for such a design.

Regardless, why would you rule that out? It is Mod's call on what he wants to do with choosing the nation mechanic.

Why can the mod not have the scums to choose a nation before revealing their role pm to them? All scums in a team would have pretty much the same win con either way right?

[Gale Wing Srock]

because it's inconsistent
did the mod tell you that you're town before you chose your nation?

Hmm, now you are comparing apples to oranges.

Scums != Towns during pregame.

They most certainly will be more informed than the townies.

So why couldn't the scums know their alignment before choosing their nation?

[Gale Wing Srock]

It has a point, because it helps us understand if the scums could have chosen different planets/nations.

Which allows us to conclude whether we have to look for atleast one scum in our hood.

Which then allows us to figure out the two player hoods.

PEdit: I second that drealmerz7!

Will also try to see if we can get a precedent for games that have revealed alignment for scums before their role pms.

[Gale Wing Srock]

It is possible for them to start the game in a thread with no one getting their role pm.

^
thats equally ridiculous
where have you seen people knowing they are scum before getting their role PM?

I am saying that

it is possible

, as per game design.

Although that is a good question, let me see if there is a precedent for such a design.

Regardless, why would you rule that out? It is Mod's call on what he wants to do with choosing the nation mechanic.

Why can the mod not have the scums to choose a nation before revealing their role pm to them? All scums in a team would have pretty much the same win con either way right?

Got it!

Code: Select all

Modifications
During pre-game, mafia have 72 hours to select which (if any) of the modifications they want to their team. A maximum of three modifications may be selected. 

C9++ and JK9++ also give SK an option to choose roles in pregame.

If this is possible, then I don't see a problem in believing that the scums could have known their team before choosing their planet / nation this game.

because it's inconsistent
did the mod tell you that you're town before you chose your nation?

Hmm, now you are comparing apples to oranges.

Scums != Towns during pregame.

They most certainly will be more informed than the townies.

So why couldn't the scums know their alignment before choosing their nation?

If we assume that they knew their alignment before choosing their nation, it is definitely possible for them to have divided themselves into different planets. So we have to look out for scums within our hoods.

And it is possible that scums couldn't get into all hoods due to their numbers, which is why hood information would be valuable to them.

Lets not share hood info to them and try to see if our hood has scums or is clean.

And with that I am going to take a break for a day, please prod inactives if possible and try to question folks in your hoods. Adios!

[Gale Wing Srock]

Why does it matter when scum got to choose their planet?

Coz they could have chosen to focus on one planet or dispersed across as many planets as possible.

Rationally though, we can assume that they must have divided themselves.

---

With that assumption: Can we also assume that if one player flips scum in a planet, the planet has more chances of being clean than not?

Bottom line is

: This discussion helps us narrow down to places where we could scum hunt, which is definitely beneficial to us in the long run.

This thought has made me decide that if Wisdom is lynched today, then we can focus on finding scum on other planets (excluding Wisdom's planet) for a while (maybe one cycle).

Since this is based on an assumption, there are exceptions such as too scummy to be ignored and/or night results.

This thought definitely clears the field for us a bit, making everyday a bit more easier to focus on scum hunting.

[Gale Wing Srock]

MOD

:

Activity call on these folks please!

Vedith Nov 07, 04:57pm Nov 10, 09:18am 2 days 1 hour 31
FrankJaeger Nov 08, 02:50am Nov 10, 08:19am 2 days 2 hours 18
Albert B. Rampage Nov 08, 03:01am Nov 10, 12:42am 2 days 10 hours 18

[Gale Wing Srock]

Drealmerz, who is WQ? and what is FTS?

I think that it is For the sake, but its not making sense in the line:

re: replacements/lurkers:

scum-buddies who know their scumbuddy(ies) is caught and are like FTS? I can't help but wonder blah if so, FIGHT, or bus! I dunno, it's weird, I think the flavor is so cool I don't know why anyone would leave!

And I don't think the game is boring, although can't say the same about my role

Wish I had a different planet as well, no one is talking in our hood chat since Saturday except for Frank and myself.

Wisdom seems too negative, and I am wondering why that is the case. Why don't we revisit Wisdom and DS later, and meanwhile talk about other players? (we still have 10 days)

What do you think of Vedith, BTD6_Maker, eagerSnake, Aeronaut, Texcat, Copper and ABR?

I am getting townie feeling from BTD6 and Texcat, although Copper and Vedith seemed a little iffy. Also I am getting the feeling that some players are intentionally lurking fsr.

Maybe fear of being nk'd?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Also I completely missed the Dead messages and shop when reading the OP. I thought about coming back to it later, but it slipped my mind.

Code: Select all

3. T$35: Undying Soul+: (Passive) Player automatically treestumps if they were to die by any means. The player may also choose to activate this ability early; treestumping removes your power to vote and use night actions and renders you "dead" for win condition purposes, but you can still post in the thread.

Now isn't that cool?

It is also possible that people are lurking so that they can get one of these cool items?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Hey Wisdom, what do you think of ABR?

Also Martyr is a townie role right?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Wisdom (5) - Diamond, Albert, BTD6_Maker, Vaxkiller, Dreal

Also, I just want to point out. People that play with Wisdom know he is a louder player.
Scum want this locked up tight before he presses them against him, as he's a harder lynch as the game goes on when town.

@Wisdom - Out of the people voting you, who's played with you before? Who knows that you're a threat at kicking and screaming and wants you lynched before going into tomorrow where the chances drop?
I'd suggest scum in those names you give as well.

However, we should all vote Texcat, we have a PT of 4 people that are all family,

and he keeps trying to push that there won't be scum in the gorup

.
1 thing I am sure of, we are not having an unofficial masionary group of 4 people in a game of this size.
Texcat is the only 1 in the group pushing for there not to be scum.

If you all put your colouring books down for 2 seconds, read that, and think about it, it makes sense.

Hmm, that is crazy.
A hood outside of the planets and all of them to be town is too big a mason group to believe.

Aka exaggerated claim to be town = Scum

there doesnt have to be scum in your group. Scum picked their planets before they got their role PMs so for all we know they could all be in that 6 people neighborhood.

I don't agree with your theory either. Any person who knows me also knows I don't get lynched, therefore ruining your theory. It's mostly townies who don't know me on the wagon.

I'm not talking about the planet group.
I am talking about another PT where the 4 of us are siblings and are in the PT because of our character fluff. We are never going to be all town.

I agree to this, its not possible for all to be town.

Well, dreal won't flip scum he's just the VI you always get in large games.
You agree that there's most likely scum, who is it then? Me or White?

Agree on dreal more likely being town in that group.

dreal is the fourth?

well, that's hard then. Maybe it's White after all.

I don't think it is White because her defense of DS is something I don't see coming from scums. She was too clear and focused that, DS's stance change on a PL on her, cannot come from scum.

Although I don't agree with that line of thought, because scums usually do things like this to look townie. Especially DS who likes making risky plays to make it seem that it is crazy to think that he is scum.

Still I can understand why such a read could be developed out of DS's play and defending it like she did against Wisdom is not something I can see coming from scum.

I'm not lynching outside of this group.

Once we get rid of scum it is a mason group.

Scum then have to prioritise their kills.

Scum would want the conversation of scum being there dropped. Dreal and white are both keeping to idea going just like me.
Texcat just wants us to avoid the situation.

Isn't that true with all groups?

Still I think Texcat wanting the group to be read as a Mason group is scummy. I don't see it coming from a townie as the paranoia would be real. Especially because it is a hood outside the planets.

UNVOTE: Diamond Sentinel

VOTE: Texcat

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale, Did you read anything I wrote? You didn't quote it. I never said we were a mason group. I said that I did not know if there was scum among us. Or how many scum there were among us. I saw and still see no reason to believe that there is exactly one scum in our group. There is a big difference between a mason group who can trust each other and a neighborhood of 4 townies who all distrust each other. I never claimed that I thought we were all town, just that I didn't see any reason to believe that we weren't.

Tell me why BTD6 > Vedith for you.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Hey Gale, talk to me about the state of this game and how strong you're feeling

Wtf does that mean?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Get me into the game

ABR, start reading I don't have a lot of time.

Long story short Texcat is scummy, start there if you want. Gtg

Adios!

[Gale Wing Srock]

NOT HAVING A LOT OF TIME AT HAND

these days guys, I only get some time during weekends.

BTD6 is a decent vote, although ignore BTD and see what the scums don't want you to see.

Who are the next most effective lynches?

Think about it.

Meanwhile, I don't have a problem voting BTD6, just feel like it is not as effective for us as it could be.

+ I don't want to miss out on the dough, so ...

UNVOTE: Texcat
VOTE: BTD6 (

L-2

)

ps: Not having time = Shallow Reads (@Wisdom) = Not as confident (@Bullet) = not the right person to ask for game state (@ABR).
I think that answers everyone.

Will catch up some in the morning, everything else has to wait till weekend.

[Gale Wing Srock]

just jumping on whatever wagon is happening

Hmm, that is already answered in my post.

BTD6 is a decent lynch target (chance of scum 7/10) and I obviously want to be on the successful wagon because we get cash to be on the wagon. So its a double sundae.

You want to have one scoop of Ice Cream or two?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I am at L-2. I will claim if I am put back on L-1.

It's true though - apart from lurking and posting little content ABR isn't that scummy. GWS, on the other hand, is the one voting me eith the least amount of rationale. He acknowledges many other scumreads of his, yet votes me to wagon me, claiming that he is wagoning for money. This looks like something a scum can very easily do if they want to vote me without having to prepare a case. Currently, this is the worst on my wagon.

VOTE: GWS

Yay!

Get a counter wagon on me and shoot me tonight if I miss out on the lynch.

Pst: saves me some time irl

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale is a better lynch than BTD.
Gale is opportunist as fuck. BTD is more likely town.

Sweet

VOTE: Vedith

[Gale Wing Srock]

Prod pickup, will post Vedith read tomorrow morning.

Regarding Texcat, I genuinely felt that she is scummy for believing her hood to be town.

BTD6 wasn't an opportunistic vote to end the day, it was a supportive vote to get things moving. Regardless though, I still believe that BTD6 has a 7/10 chance of flipping scum.

So why not vote for him?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Regarding Texcat, I genuinely felt that she is scummy for believing her hood to be town.

you FELT she IS? did you read the summaries? and do you still think texcat was arguing that the hood is all town? what about with vedith who now thinks the hood is all town?

Which summaries?

[Gale Wing Srock]

So why not vote for him?

i mean, i could ask you the same question

No, this was a question to my previous vote on BTD6.

I voted for BTD6, and folks said my texcat vote and BTD6 vote are opportunistic. When I don't think they are.

When BTD6 is scummy for me, so why can't I vote for him?

I am having my lunch right now, will share the posts which made me read Texcat, BTD6 and Vedith as scum.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Texcat Read

:

397 - I don't think this is the case, so this post made me think that she is scum with either Wisdom / DS. More likely DS, because I still think he is more likely scum.

I'm thinking that Diamond v Wisdom looks a lot like town v town to me. I understand Diamond's PL of WhiteQueens.

I don't understand the PL of WhiteQueens

721 - I prefer people to not bring their pre-bias to games. Its anti-game and confuses players.

---------

851 - I read this as caught scum, trying to wiggle out.
853 - So this makes sense from her perspective, but she was still keeping Vedith in the null pile
@Texcat: Don't you see that as manipulation from Vedith? Why didn't you suspect Vedith here?

864 - So after my vote on her, this post of hers made me think that she may not actually be scum. And could genuinely be having those reads in her hood. This also made me reassess my hood as well.

I still find her a bit weird though. My current read on her is 'Null but weird'.

Basically her weirdness comes from a contradiction that she thinks WQ is PL worthy for not signing her posts, which she states is because of her bias towards Hydras. But she doesn't see Vedith as manipulative for trying to get one of her hoodies lynched?

I don't get that at all.

[Gale Wing Srock]

BTD6 Read:

158, 215 - I had a town lean on them because I liked their approach towards not revealing hood info unnecessarily and also thinking that it is possible for every hood to have scum.

Although, 'exactly one scum per neighbourhood' is a silly assumption. What is more possible is that every hood has some number of scums in it.

239 - Made me think that they are lazy to scum hunt in general or are one of the scum in their hood.

It is definitely easier to scum hunt in a smaller group. Example being small games in this forum like Mini and Micro. I have been part of these games(mini and micro), so by experience I think that they are easier to post in, read, and look for scums.

349 - This is defending DS, by giving benefit of doubt to DS's flip on wisdom, and thinking that it needn't necessarily be opportunistic.

503 - This post gave me the red flag on them. A whole lot of explanation on how we can deduce if Wisdom is town or not in this game from his plays in prior games (which is a lot of work when compared to reading this game, which in itself is difficult to most people). And then gives a junk/filler statement.

If his play truly is identical as Town or scum, his play carries no information about his alignment. Thus when Town are lynching him they are as likely to be lynching a Town Wisdom as a scum Wisdom.

Which they follow up with an assumption that Wisdom's play in this game could be scummy since there is a wagon on him, and people are reading him to be scummy.

Seems like they puked what ever was going on in their mind, which implies that their vote on Wisdom is not majorly based on their read, which further implies that they are being opportunistic themselves.

679 - Again something that I don't agree with. It is quiet possible that either DS / Wisdom is scum, but in both of those cases BTD6 is scummy since they are basically defending both of them and calling their interaction town v town. More likely for them (BTD6) to be scum with DS, and then getting cold feet on the Wisdom wagon once folks started to cool off on the lynch. There were five folks on Wisdom (Diamond, Albert, BTD6_Maker, Vaxkiller, Dreal) which came down from seven (Diamond, Albert, Gale, White Queens, dreal, BTD6_Maker, Vaxkiller) and was not changing (554, 576, 615, 633).

---

So this was caught up by most people and then BTD6 started OMGUS (calling my votes as opportunistic, while they defended DS for the same reason) and deflection.

Although tbh, I dont think either of those actions by them is AI (Alignment Indicative) in their case, since they were already making no sense (815 and 954).

829, 841, 895 and 896 - Seemed genuine rather than flailing.
Implying that they could be naive town, but then this contradicts with their signature "Your lies are no match for a Townie armed with logical analysis."

I am thinking that if they are town then 919 makes a lot of sense.

I seldom get moderate Town/scum reads on Day 1, regardless of how many pages there are. Flips are concrete evidence, and I can scumhunt much better on Day 2 and after.

Which goes along with the game in their signature as evidence, where they had all the data available and all they had to do was figure out the scums based on analysis.

Makes me think that their left brain is great in logic and analysis, but needs some more training on Language, Reasoning and Critical Thinking. Which is also true with some of us who have been that way before, but have learned to be better.

I believe we should give them this chance to prove himself, especially for their attempt at poetry 923 to express themselves.
Imo, lets see their Day 2 play, and if it doesn't improve then they can be lynched then.

One other reason that makes me think that they could be a better Day 2+ lynch than Day 1 is because they could be a Lynch bait laid out by scums. Since they are weird enough to be labeled as scummy, this will also go by unnoticed. Especially for a Day 1 lynch.

This is one part of the reason why I thought Vedith is a better lynch than BTD6 in 959.

[Gale Wing Srock]

EBWOP: It was tiring to change all the pronouns, but I guess I missed some *sigh*

[Gale Wing Srock]

I have checked out some scenarios after all the development we had in this game till now, and in all scenarios DS seems scummy to me.
Especially because he is filling this game up with nonsense.

UNVOTE: Vedith

VOTE: Diamond Sentinel

Lets trust our reasoning here, this guy has done nothing productive this game. All he has done is draw attention to himself, defend himself by saying 'I am that way', 'I play that way' 'scums wouldn't do that' and is not budding players.

I will be very skeptical of players who defend this nonsense.

[Gale Wing Srock]

EBWOP: and is

not

now budding players

His flip will give us a lot of information and clarity, and will essentially remove a major part of junk posts this game.

[Gale Wing Srock]

How much would I have to pay you guys to vote Gale with me? Because that's 100% scum.

Example of nonsense junk ^

Only way for him to know this with certainty, is if he is scum buddy with me. Even in that case his lynch makes more sense, because that takes a lot of useless noise out of the game.

165 posts of non-progressive fillers are just too much in a large game. The only exceptions are his votes and him giving Wisdom a pretty strong town read for this:

So, once pre-game is over, intent to PL White Queens. Just figured I should declare that.

ill help you with that

ill help you with that

I'll give this a pretty strong town-read, for now.

Buddy wisdom much?

[Gale Wing Srock]

DS and Vedith are my top scum reads. I can vote for either of them but prefer DS over Vedith because he is just polluting the thread with point less fillers.

The same can be said for everyone to some extent, but his noise to content ratio is so high that it is annoying to keep him around.
Unless you all want more pages to read (I am still way behind in catch up), in which case mercy kill me for the love of sanity.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale, if not DS then who of the leading bandwagons are you down to lynch?

What do you think of Vedith?

I will post my read on him, when I get more time. But he is in two hoods, and one of those hoods is a two player hood with you in it. It is very well possible that he is the scum in your hood.

535, 540 & 544 leads us to a rational assumption that scums could have divided themselves equally in hoods assuming a minimum of one in each hood.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Not Role PMs.

This is what I am thinking could have happened.

Town: Planet Choice -> Role PM

Scum: Scum PT -> Planet Choice -> Role PM (Game Designs that have similar mechanics: Stack the Deck, C9++, JK9++).

=> We can rationally assume that scums could have divided themselves in hoods, with a minimum of one in each hood.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Sorry WQ, but I'm not for a Wisdom lynch right now. He's a solid null.

Join me on Eager or Gale. Both of them are super scum.

Where is your read on me coming from DS?

[Gale Wing Srock]

@Vaxkiller: I think those are the list of players willing to vote for Wisdom.

[Gale Wing Srock]

I don't think Vedith wants to vote Wisdom either. Idk where WQ is getting it from.

@WQ if not Wisdom, then who?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I think Wisdom is town this game.

He is trying to save his town read and VI over his own lynch. This is not what he did with Ricastle in our last game. He just went after the lurking VI and never looked back.

If both Wisdom and Vedith are scum, then it would be dumb for scum Wisdom to try to save Vedith over himself.

And why will he save BTD6? Unless you think he is scum with both of them, which is ridiculous.
But even in that case, we have to lynch Vedith to clear that mess up (Wisdom is more valuable as town, and BTD6 said he gets better with flips which will work against him if not true).

White Queen and Eager Snake are null reads for me.

And when we have scums like DS and Vedith around, Idk why you guys would want to lynch anyone else.

PEdit: @DS, explain your read on me, and your town read on Wisdom.

[Gale Wing Srock]

@Gale: Whiteknighting is when scum defends town that is a likely lynch for towncred.

Hmm, but I don't think he is Whiteknighting here.

Because folks had already given up on his wagon, although its definitely something to think about.

@DS: you are full of it. My BTD6 read is here. It only has TWO quotes.
Everything else are links.

It just tells you how shallow your read is on me.

Lynch this scum

!

[Gale Wing Srock]

@Gale: Whiteknighting is when scum defends town that is a likely lynch for towncred.

Hmm, but I don't think he is Whiteknighting here.

Because folks had already given up on his wagon, although its definitely something to think about.

@DS: you are full of it. My BTD6 read is here. It only has TWO quotes.
Everything else are links.

It just tells you how shallow your read is on me.

Lynch this scum

!

Quotes include references to post, scum.

Wtf are you talking about? How are quotes references to posts?

This is like saying Oranges = Bananas since they are both fruits.

[Gale Wing Srock]

EBWOP: How are quotes equal to links?

Both are references to posts, but your saying one instead of the other says that you didn't even read that post carefully.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Now you are saying Banana is worse than Orange because it still requires peeling and people are LESS likely to eat them.

If you didn't read the f'in post, then why are you commenting on it?

^ this proves that all he wants to do is post junk.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Now you are saying Banana is worse than Orange because it still requires peeling and people are LESS likely to eat them.

If you didn't read the f'in post, then why are you commenting on it?

^ this proves that all he wants to do is post junk.

Actually that analogy doesn't because it's harder to peal oranges than it is bananas.

QED bitch

Oh now you are right because I suck at making analogies? You are so full of it DS, if DS is not lynched today then we might as well give scums the win.

PEDIT: That is not a misrep, he didn't say that the links were a hassle.
What you did right there was one though

[Gale Wing Srock]

Your BTD6 "read" wall was a whole bunch of quotes without anything actually being said.

This implies that he actually read it.

It doesn't say that I didn't read your post because they were full of quotes (which is still stupid for saying quotes instead of links, but not as much as claiming to have read the post in its entirety)

[Gale Wing Srock]

He never said he never read it; you assumed.
That's the misrep I spoke of.

Wtf are you on about? What does his quoted line in the prior post mean?

[Gale Wing Srock]

He never said he never read it; you assumed.
That's the misrep I spoke of.

Wtf are you on about? What does his quoted line in the prior post mean?

It means your post was information instead of analysis.

Explain to me in clear words, how his statement means my post was IIOA?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I think Gamma Emerald is part of the non reading folks in this game.

@Gamma Emerald, go through my post and tell me why you think it is IIOA.

Don't tell me DS said it was IIOA, because he

didn't

. And as far as I know, you haven't read through the links as well.

[Gale Wing Srock]

ds you're not lynching me and you're not shutting me up

I will continue pushing my scumreads until I'm nightkilled so tough luck

Well, that can be arranged.

Please! I beg of you, lynch this scum.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Spoiler: This is our town

Spoiler: And this is scum

Please lynch Duh Scum (DS)!

Spoiler: Hint

.
.
.

Diamond Sentinel

duh!

[Gale Wing Srock]

Intent to Hammer

.

It is pretty mean to not give the VI a chance, but if no one sees reason then there is no point.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay, give a clear reason to DS scum.
You seem to be changing who the scum to be lynched it... Wasn't long ago you was saying we should lynch Gamma.

Spoiler: Bro do you even lift?

Read the game yo!

Never said we should lynch Gamma.

[Gale Wing Srock]

The basic premise of the lynch itself is so bad.

If we want to lynch the non contributors, then DS is the guy to lynch because his posts are fluff and he posts a lot of fluff.

If we want to lynch the lurkers, then Texcat comes to mind.

The absolute truth is that we are lynching someone for weird language. That is the only difference I see between Frank and BTD6.

But no one cares for the truth *smh*

[Gale Wing Srock]

You know what I am convinced that BTD6's claim is not going to change anything. People are still going to lynch him for weird language.

And mind you, I agree that they are scummy. Just thinking that there are other MORE scummy people in the game who we could lynch. *sigh*

Anyways, might as well get it done now so we can have more time to reassess the game during the night.

VOTE: BTD6

Also guys start reading / rereading, I still have to do a lot of catch up to do too, hopefully tomorrow will be better.

[Gale Wing Srock]

I am so saddened by all this

[Gale Wing Srock]

Wait how am I scum again?

BNL was voting for Me, Eager Snake, White Queens and Vedith out of those alive. I am thinking its a double/triple benefit red herring kill.

Frame Townie + PR hunt + Save Scum Buddy (may or may not be one of the case).

The Irony is that I don't think any of them are scum right now.

---

So I reread the game during the night and found that Vedith wasn't as scummy to me anymore.

His line of posts from 1586 to 1616, where he reasons with Wisdom and tires to prove that Wisdom is wrong wrt his WQ read. Where he also brings out the truth from Wisdom that Wisdom thinks WQ is scum regardless of BTD6 flip.

And his post about their sister hood 1061 (which was agreed to be accurate by the hoodies) makes me think that he may not actually be scum.

Why couldn't it be possible that scums shot BNL (lets assume DS is a town shot for now), to make us concentrate on BNL's D1 scum suspects? I mean it is obvious we will try to go after these folks right? (same is the case if we assume the other way around)

Also if White Queens is scum, then her killing players who are aggressively going after her lynch would make more sense no (Wisdom)? Lets be honest here, I don't think we are going to lynch Wisdom on the basis of anything that has happened so far, as they are all pretty null against him.

I want to hear more from Texcat, she didn't reply to my post :

@Texcat: Don't you see that as manipulation from Vedith? Why didn't you suspect Vedith here?

VOTE: Texcat till you start talking more.

Tell me what you think of WQ, Wisdom, Vedith, and Drealmerz.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Wait how am I scum again?

The hammer on BTD before he could claim.

BNL was voting for Me, Eager Snake, White Queens and Vedith out of those alive. I am thinking its a double/triple benefit red herring kill.

Frame Townie + PR hunt + Save Scum Buddy (may or may not be one of the case).

The Irony is that I don't think any of them are scum right now.

You just don't want to get PoEd huh?

---

So I reread the game during the night and found that Vedith wasn't as scummy to me anymore.

His line of posts from 1586 to 1616, where he reasons with Wisdom and tires to prove that Wisdom is wrong wrt his WQ read. Where he also brings out the truth from Wisdom that Wisdom thinks WQ is scum regardless of BTD6 flip.

And his post about their sister hood 1061 (which was agreed to be accurate by the hoodies) makes me think that he may not actually be scum.

Why couldn't it be possible that scums shot BNL (lets assume DS is a town shot for now), to make us concentrate on BNL's D1 scum suspects? I mean it is obvious we will try to go after these folks right? (same is the case if we assume the other way around)

Also if White Queens is scum, then her killing players who are aggressively going after her lynch would make more sense no (Wisdom)? Lets be honest here, I don't think we are going to lynch Wisdom on the basis of anything that has happened so far, as they are all pretty null against him.

I want to hear more from Texcat, she didn't reply to my post :

@Texcat: Don't you see that as manipulation from Vedith? Why didn't you suspect Vedith here?

VOTE: Texcat till you start talking more.

Tell me what you think of WQ, Wisdom, Vedith, and Drealmerz.

Wisdom leantown
WQ scum
dreal town
Vedith scummish

Lol Gamma is scum is it?

Jumping on my post without even reading that I was addressing that to Texcat

I will wait till Texcat is back from her V/LA, lets lynch this hasty scum.

VOTE: Gamma

Why did you jump on my post that way?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I didn't realize it was addressed at tex but IDC I still had shit to say. The first half is playing dumb and I felt stating my reads would be helpful, especially Wisdom as that changed quite a bit recently.

Why the rush though, you could have stated it anyway.

You seemed to have an immediate need to respond to my post, as though it was your agenda from last night.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Why am I voting WQ then.
Also as scum it would be better to let town push you as you are lynchbait.

Lol, so scums ideal play would have been for town to push me, and you personally think I am lynch bait.

But you jumped my post and responded with "You just don't want to get PoEd huh?" which implies you see me as scum.

Deduction 1: You think its scum's ideal play for town to push for my lynch

Deduction 2: You think I am a lynch bait, but are sure that I am scum? => Contradiction

Deduction 3: You jumped on my post to prove that you are not scum (not following ideal scum play) => scums do what is required to appear town

Conclusion: Basically it was preprogrammed in your mind that you will go after me from the beginning to prove that you are town. Since you think the ideal scum play is to sit back and let town push for my lynch.

VOTE: Gamma now I am sure this is scum

You shouldn't have rushed on my post :p

[Gale Wing Srock]

You are reading into my post too much. Lynch bait just means there's not a lot in the way of lynching them. I was speaking from your point of view. I jumped on your post because I didn't want it going unnoticed.

Why will it go unnoticed?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Why would we PoE that group?

[Gale Wing Srock]

So basically the scum plan is for us to PoE that group. Aka Frame some townies.

Also I didn't call the group as townie, I just said that I don't think any of them are scum. Which means they are null / town lean for me.

The Irony is that I don't think any of them are scum right now.

[Gale Wing Srock]

We nay not deliberately PoE the group but eventually it will happen.
You know what, until WQ comes back:
VOTE: Gale

Tell me something, why is all your reasoning based on certain assumptions that led you to this?

You assumed BnL was scum hit, you assumed I didn't want to be PoE'd, you assumed my point of view would be that I am lynch bait, you assumed scums would sit back and let town push me, you assumed that we would PoE.

All of these assumptions make me think that this is your agenda from last night.

You wanted people to PoE that group, which is why you killed BnL, isn't that right?

PEdit: Why were you analyzing my PoV in this post?

Why am I voting WQ then.
Also as scum it would be better to let town push you as you are lynchbait.

[Gale Wing Srock]

I didn't realize it was addressed at tex but IDC I still had shit to say. The first half is playing dumb and I felt stating my reads would be helpful, especially Wisdom as that changed quite a bit recently.

Why the rush though, you could have stated it anyway.

You seemed to have an immediate need to respond to my post, as though it was your agenda from last night.

Why am I voting WQ then.
Also as scum it would be better to let town push you as you are lynchbait.

There is no need to analyze my PoV here, to state any logic. Since you were already sheeping Wisdom on WQ???

[Gale Wing Srock]

And I was going to push you no matter who died.

Then why sheep Wisdom on WQ???

[Gale Wing Srock]

I was still pushing you as a possible lynch.

Hmm, but why would you analyze my PoV and see me as lynch bait?

That is going too much forward, as though planning to lynch me and preparing for what I might do to avoid the lynch.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay so the case on you is pretty simple:

1) You came in with pre-planned agenda to lynch me (1857).
2) You analyzed and planned for what I could possibly respond to if a wagon formed on me (1847).
3) You were in such a rush as to not wanting my post to go unnoticed that you didn't notice the question in the post was for Texcat (1839)

So the pre-planned agenda, the analysis of counter play and the rush to pin me as scum as soon as I posted is something that I don't see coming from townies. Although your approach to all of this is making me think that you could be naive town with a tunnel.

Scum Lean

on you for now.

[Gale Wing Srock]

@

Gamma

: Could you explain your read on WQ and Vedith?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I'm speaking as if you were town and I were scum. The lynchbait bit is an analysis of your situation, where you are a very likely wagon.

Lol, this is naive scum claim.

I wouldn't be able to think that way as town, especially after someone votes for me.

[Gale Wing Srock]

EBWOP: Especially someone who I am scum reading.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay so the case on you is pretty simple:

1) You came in with pre-planned agenda to lynch me (1857).
2) You analyzed and planned for what I could possibly respond to if a wagon formed on me (1847).
3) You were in such a rush as to not wanting my post to go unnoticed that you didn't notice the question in the post was for Texcat (1839)

So the pre-planned agenda, the analysis of counter play and the rush to pin me as scum as soon as I posted is something that I don't see coming from townies. Although your approach to all of this is making me think that you could be naive town with a tunnel.

Scum Lean

on you for now.

Correction + addition to the above post.

So the pre-planned agenda + the analysis of counter play + the rush to pin me as scum trying to avoid PoE as soon as I posted, is not something I can see coming from townies without a tunnel.

If we assume that he has a tunnel on me, then the reason he states for me being scummy is:

The hammer on BTD before he could claim.

But his reaction after my hammer was that I stole his chance of getting the money:

SCREW YOU!
I WANTED THAT MONEY!

Instead of why I didn't wait for a claim.

---

@

Gamma

: Could you explain your read on WQ and Vedith?

Vedith read is based on his pushes on members of his sisterhood. WQ is by BNL's reads. I also surmised that if WQ is scum one of Vedith or dreal is and dreal doesn't seem very scummy rn so I can see them as groupscum.

He says WQ is scum because of BNL's reads, although BNL's last read on WQ was Null:

VOTE: White Queens

I'm now willing to lynch a null read if it's a counterwagon to Wisdom, and this one is falling down.

Can this happen?

That doesn't seem like a reason to shoot BNL.

Do we know if BNL claimed / hinted something in his hood?

Also the only thing that is confusing me right now is that Gamma is being too blatantly scummy to be true. Correct me if I am wrong here

[Gale Wing Srock]

Seriously though, Gale and WQ are scum.

Will read this later.

THIS was BNL's last post on WQ IIRC.
DEFINITELY not a null.

Okay doesn't seem Naive either. Now I am confused

[Gale Wing Srock]

Didn't BNL claim a hood of 3?

Not sure, but I think Wisdom claimed a hood of three.

So since you are not naive, and I don't think your read on me is a tunnel, I am going to go with you being scum based on 1864.
Pre-planning is scummy Yo!

Will be back later tonight, Adios!

[Gale Wing Srock]

^

That is L-2 on WQ

[Gale Wing Srock]

Why do you say it's not a tunnel?

I don't think it is a tunnel due to three separate events:

A) Lack of Tunnel / Scum Hating Emotion:

I will wait till Texcat is back from her V/LA, lets lynch this hasty scum.

VOTE: Gamma

Why did you jump on my post that way?

VOTE: Gamma now I am sure this is scum

You shouldn't have rushed on my post :p

I voted for you twice, both times you responded calmly to my posts and also were trying to think from my perspective (of yourself as scum and myself as town, which is pretty weird ). No townie who has a tunnel on someone will be able to do this, regardless of skill. Especially the thinking from my perspective part

---

B) You said that your scum read on me is based on my hammer on BTD6, but there is a completely different reaction from you when it actually happened. Aka Tunnel on me couldn't be because of my hammer on BTD6.

If we assume that he has a tunnel on me, then the reason he states for me being scummy is:

The hammer on BTD before he could claim.

But his reaction after my hammer was that I stole his chance of getting the money:

SCREW YOU!
I WANTED THAT MONEY!

Instead of why I didn't wait for a claim.

---

B) Tunneling townies believe that the person they have the Tunnel on deserves to be lynched above anyone else who is equally or less scummy than the person they are tunneling.

For obvious reasons, that is the reason it is called a tunnel in the first place.

Gale or WQ today I guess?

I wont really object to gale being lynched but its an eh lynch compared to white queens

OK
VOTE: White Queens

You didn't seem to have a tunnel on me in 1821 and Wisdom's gale lynch is 'eh' post made you vote Wisdom over me?

Yeah that is not a Tunnel for sure.

So you are not Naive + Its not a Tunnel = You are scum based on this

So the pre-planned agenda + the analysis of counter play + the rush to pin me as scum trying to avoid PoE as soon as I posted, is not something I can see coming from townies without a tunnel.

[Gale Wing Srock]

EBWOP: Two Bs! they never leave me alone

[Gale Wing Srock]

Now WQ read is something that I have a gut feeling on, so I am going to leave you guys alone on that.

But while we are waiting on WQ to respond lets get some more clarity on this

These are the probabilities of the Night Kill yesterday (imo):

1) Scum + Vig Shots went through.
2) Scum + SK shots went through with Vig RB'd or Idled or Doc'd or w/e
3) Scum A + Scum B shots went through, SK and/or Vig RB'd or Idled or Doc'd or w/e

All of these cases are making me think that Bullet Kill over more townie folks like Drealmerz and Mirhawk, is either because Bullet softed/claimed his role in the hood(s) he was in, or one of Drealmerz or Mirhawk is scum.

What do you guys think of this?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Same holds true for DS as well, although Idk why SK / Vig / Scum B would shoot Bullet and Scum shooting DS over Wisdom is more ridiculous to imagine.

[Gale Wing Srock]

All of these cases are making me think that Bullet Kill over more townie folks like Drealmerz and Mirhawk, is either because Bullet softed/claimed his role in the hood(s) he was in, or one of Drealmerz or Mirhawk is scum.

or because btd's reads were better than drealm's and mirhawk's

You mean Bullet right?

Hmm, that could be the case. Idk though seems off to me.

Wisdom could you confirm if Bullet was on your hood yesterday?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Why would you expect me to get shot given how I've played this game?

Same thing for DS as well right? Why would DS get shot over you is what I am not able to understand. He looked far more scummy than you tbh.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Hmm probably, btw our hood is locked is that the case with everyone else as well?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Wisdom could you confirm if Bullet was on your hood yesterday?

@Wisdom

, you want to answer this one y/n?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Yes, I am thinking if Bullet had softed/claimed his role in the hood he was in then, we could question the players in that hood as well.

[Gale Wing Srock]

if he had done so someone would tell us so

Unless he was in a hood with two scums

Anything you want to ask me? I have some more time, thinking of continuing a book that I was reading.

[Gale Wing Srock]

if gamma is scum, who do you see as scum with him?

Not sure, I wasn't able to see Gamma with anyone else in my reread. He could be SK.

I think the Copper-Gamma Slot wasn't looked at much during Day 1.

What about you? Do you see anyone being scum with him?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay I found this one incident when he was supporting DS. But DS flipped town, so it only highlights Gamma's scum motive to buddy with DS, but doesn't indicate any scum buddies per say.

Read from post #1491 to see yourself.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay Adios folks!

I am going to be pretty tied up starting tomorrow because there are tons of stuff for me to do over this week. We have a new task master prof and another prof who doesn't like the first one and is in a rage battle for who gives more homework.

Hate college, they won't teach you what you want (coz they don't know it themselves, hence why some come to teach I suppose), and they won't let you have fun either.

Please ban all non-fun colleges.

[Gale Wing Srock]

So I reread the game during the night and found that Vedith wasn't as scummy to me anymore.

His line of posts from 1586 to 1616, where he reasons with Wisdom and tires to prove that Wisdom is wrong wrt his WQ read. Where he also brings out the truth from Wisdom that Wisdom thinks WQ is scum regardless of BTD6 flip.

And his post about their sister hood 1061 (which was agreed to be accurate by the hoodies) makes me think that he may not actually be scum.

Why couldn't it be possible that scums shot BNL (lets assume DS is a town shot for now), to make us concentrate on BNL's D1 scum suspects? I mean it is obvious we will try to go after these folks right? (same is the case if we assume the other way around)

Also if White Queens is scum, then her killing players who are aggressively going after her lynch would make more sense no (Wisdom)? Lets be honest here, I don't think we are going to lynch Wisdom on the basis of anything that has happened so far, as they are all pretty null against him.

I think you misunderstood the point that I was making.

Strategy 1: Scums shooting BNL to make us concentrate on BNL's scum suspects is a rational strategy. However, if we assume that to be the case then:

BNL was voting for Me, Eager Snake, White Queens and Vedith out of those alive.

The above fact implies that these folks are not scum, because the scums wouldn't kill someone whose scum suspects are themselves.

---

Strategy 2: If WQ is scum, then instead of shooting BNL, she might have shot Wisdom who was aggressively going after her and was not lynched on Day 1 (and probably won't be lynched)

So that kind of proves that if WQ is scum, then the kill is not based on Strategy 1.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Yeah, wisdom is a mason read, and that first post was a mispost

Explain this? What made you see Wisdom as Mason? and why are you announcing it? Wisdom was not in any danger for you to have claimed that earlier today, seems more like you were claiming that to gain town cred.

[Gale Wing Srock]

I really think that is suboptimal.

A lot of suboptimal things happened today, I think it is one of those suboptimal days. Just answer ABR so that we can get on with it.

You vote can also be the answer, and you are on WQ right now. You still want to vote WQ?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Ok; so which of these two possibilities do you think is true?

I want to know who were in the hood with Bullet to be able to answer this question. If framing is not the reason for his death, then it has to be a leak. Doesn't look like a random kill to me.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Lots of interesting things, also those were both strange kills.

The mason daytalk enabler means we have a mason group as well (which is nice but them not having daytalk anymore limits their utility).

I received a anonymous message last night with a list of people telling me that at least one of the people on the list was scum. I'm undecided on weather I'll share it at the moment or not, if nobody can think of a reason to keep it secret I'll probably share it.

I definitely made a mistake with not taking Wisdom up on switching to Queens, I was too worried about splitting the wagons. Still not 100 percent on Queens, but it was still a weak play on my part.

Which kill do you think was scum and which was the Vig or SK? I'm leaning scum on Diamond and Vig on Bullet, but I'm not completely sure. Which begs the question, why those two?

BTW I'm pretty sure that message mirahawk received was from someone on the scum team and should be ignored. Pretty sure they want us to spend time on that and distract us from the game. If the mod were to send us a message he would not have had DS on it, and the scum team likely had no idea DS was going to die because some trigger happy person on our team shot him.

BTD could not have sent it because he has not more knowledge than anyone else in this game.

Perhaps, but it also included BNL who they would have known was going to die.

But I think maybe I've wasted enough time on this seeing as how at the very least it won't be useful at the moment.

If DS was a scum A/B shot or SK/Vig shot or Redirector (idk if it works with VTs), then scum B/A/SK could have sent that. Moot point!

Vax's theory of spending cash seems a merry-go-round that scums could use as a distraction and probably find a way to use it to their advantage. I am skeptical of Vax after that bs, especially in-combination with the lie he told Mirhawk earlier.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Toss between Wisdom, ABR, and yourself so no PRs are hit. Eager tracking Gamma is BS, of all people why Gamma? Makes no sense to me.

Unless Eager is scum and was PR hunting.

VOTE: Eager Snake

[Gale Wing Srock]

Toss between Wisdom, ABR, and yourself so no PRs are hit. Eager tracking Gamma is BS, of all people why Gamma? Makes no sense to me.

Unless Eager is scum and was PR hunting.

VOTE: Eager Snake

Another terrible vote from Gale.

What are you talking about "no PRs are hit"? Then you turn around and vote for a PR?

VOTE: Gale

I said Eager must be scum because I can't believe Town Tracker to be tracking someone like Gamma.

Your point is invalidated because Eager's alignment itself is being questioned here. So him being PR or not is irrelevant.

Also if we assume you to be scum with Eager, then this post means you slipped up that he is actually a scum PR.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Obviously I was hoping I'd catch him committing a kill

Can you tell me how/why you decided on Gamma?

[Gale Wing Srock]

@Eager Snake: Like what made you scum read Gamma and decide he is the optimum player to track.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Also

Vote: ABR

I keep saying it but there's no way he can have the information he's claiming to have.

He's probably scum with Eager, it's by far the simplest explanation.

The alternatives being;
1. Ved lied and is secretly a rolecop who targeted eager and can somehow communicate with his hood closed.
2. ABR is a mason in a group of masons that is apparently completely filled with PR's.
3. Someone bought the neighborhood item from the shop, which would have required them to make at least sixteen dollars night one. Diamond, who's character was a merchant only had an income of $4. This would require the person in question to me on the wagon, and have an income of $6.

I don't see any of those as being very likely, he's lying.

This is a very good deduction Mirhawk, but I would like us to lynch Eager in that scenario. Since:

A) If ABR is town he is more beneficial to us in the long run
B) Watcher > Tracker
C) Eager's flip will tell us about Texcat.
D) Eager lurks a lot. (number of posts as evidence: 22)

[Gale Wing Srock]

Wait wait wait lol.

Did ABR claim that he also watched Gamma N1? That is ridiculous!

Code: Select all

The Voyeur is an informative role that can target a player at night and learn what was done to them that night (protection, investigation, etc), but not who did it.

Voyeurs can be of any alignment. 

Code: Select all

The Watcher is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, targeted that player the same Night (but not what actions were performed on that player). 

So what ever special watcher ABR is, he must have been on Gamma to see Eager do the informative role on him.

@

ABR

same question to you, what made you watch Gamma over anyone else in the game?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Maybe, but Eager was already in hot water. If he did get lynched and was actually a tracker it would confirm ABR's role to town.

Oh this makes sense.

UNVOTE: Eager Snake

[Gale Wing Srock]

No votes on Eager between these posts 2049, 1925; and none to start with.

Although regardless of the pressure on Eager, the scum strategy that Mirhawk points out is still valid. I just don't feel it is concrete enough to call ABR scum.

[Gale Wing Srock]

@Gamma

Why are you being so careful? Seems off from what I'd expect from a town!Gamma. The town!Gamma I have experience with is not careful by any means

See?

Okies

But that adds more to my confusion

[Gale Wing Srock]

I think drealmerz 2936 is revealing!

Basically my gut read on WQ is based on how a person plays when they are busy irl, coz I know that feeling too. However, in this particular game there was enough time inbetween posts and during the night to catch up. Especially starting Night 1.

The hydra WQ has only this game on their plate, Idk if the underlying players (RachMarie + Ms Marangal) have many games to address (will check later), but even then if they are town I expect them to do some reading when there is some time available.

I agree that these three posts are scum theater:

If the reason to why is what I think it is, then I reassure my broth read... I think

Whoops

Wisdom is town

Holding off on txtcat scum read till tomorrow

Vote consideration will have to come in the morning.

I just needed to get that first message out before anything bad happened

Too much drama from someone who realized that their read flipped on a player in the game. As though to emphasize that she is seeing Wisdom in a whole new light. Which I don't think people will exhibit as town, unless they are childish and post everything that comes to their mind (Not seeing WQ as that kind of player).

---

there is even a wagon

forming on Wisdom

but I am having serious issues with you right now and am not going to let up, and will likely push you, if you do not address the shit that matters about YOU in the game thread"

This is definitely not the reason to post her read change on Wisdom as she did. She could have simply said that her read on Wisdom has changed in the hood and in the game thread.

Her play today has definitely been AtE, which is making me think that she is scummy and is busy irl. Which is very well possible, and could very well be the reason why she needs to put up drama to explain her read switch on Wisdom.

---

@12:33 in the hood she says that she is going to do that (the game thread) later and that she needs to double check something. and then comments that she saw the role and didn't read description. (riiight)

Now this is a clear lie. Even if busy, town folks would read about the role or ask about it to Mod or do something active wrt finding what a dead townie role meant in the game.

If she is not interested in knowing the dead townie role's description
=> she has no need to know that
=> she already knows about it and is lying or she doesn't care about that role anymore since the townie died
In both of the above cases, she has to be scum!

VOTE: White Queens

[Gale Wing Srock]

VOTE: votegws

Pedit :ok

What is the shock for? You are obviously scum this game.

I didn't have time to catch up on Day 1 and my real life is busy too, but I am making some effort to read. If it is too much for you and real life needs your attention then what are you doing playing a game of mafia?

You want a game to relax and keep you occupied, play pokemon Sun and Moon. You want a free one try Choices from the Android market. Take a break from games that need you to act if your life is busy. I took a break and I am only playing one game now due to lack of time.

We seriously had a lot of free time this game to catch up, so don't give me that bs, coz I am not buying that sh8!

Pedit: So you don't think Drealmerz is scummy for that misrep on you?

[Gale Wing Srock]

That was a misrepresented, btw. I never said I didn't read the role, I just didn't read the description because Mason encrypted is straight forward, why would I read a thing that is majority flavor when I get what he is off what he showed outside the spouler

Btw this is you being complacent. We lost two townies in the game and our scum reads are divided.

You being complacent and assuming sh8 is only proving that you don't care to solve the game.
Which also implies you are scum!

[Gale Wing Srock]

That was a misrepresented, btw. I never said I didn't read the role, I just didn't read the description because Mason encrypted is straight forward, why would I read a thing that is majority flavor when I get what he is off what he showed outside the spouler

Btw this is you being complacent. We lost two townies in the game and our scum reads are divided.

You being complacent and assuming sh8 is only proving that you don't care to solve the game.
Which also implies you are scum!

And this is what I mean, and why you're scum. Like I said, we are busy but we make effort to post. Every. Single. Day.

If I didn't care about finding scum, I wouldn't have bothered with the other mason.

If I didn't care, I wouldn't be posting period.

If you look through our ISO it is clear that we are communicating despite our lack of time.

It is also clear that we are using all threads given to us in the most optimal manner in our minds that is conducive to finding scum.

Meanwhile you've just been throwing blame around all game and you haven't even had a strong opinion in any way, shape, or form

The fact that you have been made to take notice of this post and have to justify your actions is in itself proof that I had a strong opinion on your behavior. So your point on me is meh!

As far as your explanation goes, I think it is a fair enough approach to the game, so ...

UNVOTE: White Queens

Care to share your strong opinion on Texcat's behavior this game?

[Gale Wing Srock]

That was a misrepresented, btw. I never said I didn't read the role, I just didn't read the description because Mason encrypted is straight forward, why would I read a thing that is majority flavor when I get what he is off what he showed outside the spouler

Btw this is you being complacent. We lost two townies in the game and our scum reads are divided.

You being complacent and assuming sh8 is only proving that you don't care to solve the game.
Which also implies you are scum!

This is AWFUL. It's one thing to bitch about the state of a game and people being complacent, but then to turn those feelings onto someone and call them scum?

Gale you have the same amount as activity as White Queens and you are bitching about her being complacent and calling her scum for it (and dont turn this around and say "I only

implied

she was scum")

What about eager? Do you think he is complacent?
Texcat? PeregrineV? Frank?

You wanna talk complacency, we have asked eager questions and he ignores everything (im not even talking about ABR's thing) comes in and says one sentence and leaves. The real kicker is when he comes in and answers something anyone could have answered. It's like "great" he wasted his one post for this shit.

Wisdom, doesn't it bother you that ABR asked you to not lynch eager?

Oh and one more thing!

VOTE: GALE

@Vax

, have you responded to my case on Gamma yet?

This is all that you have said about that:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around ABR/Eager/gamma weirdness.

Also correction, I did not call WQ scum due to her activity or complacency.
I believed that she lied to drealmerz about not reading about Bullet's role or she didn't care about what role Bullet had.

=> she already knows about it and is lying or she doesn't care about that role anymore since the townie died

For which she replied that:

I just didn't read the description because Mason encrypted is straight forward, why would I read a thing that is majority flavor when I get what he is off what he showed outside the spouler

Now what impression does that give you about WQ's contribution?

I know that complacency is wide spread, but if you want to remove it, you have start testing people for why they are being complacent. I did test WQ and 2412 - 2414 proved to me that WQ has their mind in the game. Also I could see the fire that townies possess to fight for there slot, which I haven't seen in Gamma till now.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale, frank, gamma, eager

These are the lynches i wont say no to at the moment

That was a misrepresented, btw. I never said I didn't read the role, I just didn't read the description because Mason encrypted is straight forward, why would I read a thing that is majority flavor when I get what he is off what he showed outside the spouler

Btw this is you being complacent. We lost two townies in the game and our scum reads are divided.

You being complacent and assuming sh8 is only proving that you don't care to solve the game.
Which also implies you are scum!

This is AWFUL. It's one thing to bitch about the state of a game and people being complacent, but then to turn those feelings onto someone and call them scum?

Gale you have the same amount as activity as White Queens and you are bitching about her being complacent and calling her scum for it (and dont turn this around and say "I only

implied

she was scum")

What about eager? Do you think he is complacent?
Texcat? PeregrineV? Frank?

You wanna talk complacency, we have asked eager questions and he ignores everything (im not even talking about ABR's thing) comes in and says one sentence and leaves. The real kicker is when he comes in and answers something anyone could have answered. It's like "great" he wasted his one post for this shit.

Wisdom, doesn't it bother you that ABR asked you to not lynch eager?

Oh and one more thing!

VOTE: GALE

Actually Vax's reaction seems a little exaggerated, and when reading it with Wisdom's post prev page, I am thinking he jumped on my wagon to conform? Maybe I am wrong here, but his post seems a little out of place.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Could be hate for hypocrites maybe?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I hate hypocrites too, it just boils my blood when I see people laying the law for other people, which they have a different set of rules to govern themselves. Fu*k Sh8s!

But sometimes you have to reaction test people to sort them, since not everyone answers questions in the same way.

[Gale Wing Srock]

you know, fuck, I have to go check and see if I said building or being formed now, but either way, it's NO WHERE CLOSE TO:

"...I thought that wisdom was going to be lynched"

But more importantly, if you look at the page where WQ posted (1941) her Wisdom is town claim/read and look at the top of the page, you'll see a vote count with 0 votes for Wisdom. That's right, ZERO. Wisdom did get two votes on that page, but I see no reason why WQ couldn't have checked on the Wisdom wagon herself or why she is blaming Drealm.

This is a very good point Texcat, kind of proves that she was indeed coasting.

Btw, What do you think of ABR's claim?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Oh, also my plan will only work if we dont lynch scum, so its more of an insurance policy. If we lynch scum, the can mess with the plan by sending a dead message.

As if there weren't enough problems with the plan, I'll add another one: we don't know that scum has to spend money to send messages. Perhaps they just have that ability, like the dead do.

Also in the post you are saying dead people have passive ability to send messages, is that right?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Code: Select all

When a player dies, they have one of two options: they can continue to watch the thread & send anonymous messages to other players through the moderator at night or they can basically ask to join a dead pt.

Hmm, so is it possible that BTD6 sent both the messages? One through the 1-shot link and the other through the dead pt?

Code: Select all

7. T$12: Weak Communication Link: (1-Shot) Send a small (999 characters max), anonymous message to a player of your choice (via the moderator).

[Gale Wing Srock]

@gale, id like to see where you are going with this before I respond.

Go ahead Vax, what is on your mind?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Let me reread it, I skimmed through it and marked it to be read later.

[Gale Wing Srock]

0 Flavor

It is BTD or someone acting like BTD. The message literally does say after my lynch, I have no idea how I missed this after reading it 3 times.

He is basically asking for my reads on certain people.

That's actually really good to know. That means that the message I received has to be from either the weak communication link item or from somebody's role.

My issue with the message in general is that it's steeped in enough flavor to make me unsure as to if someone other then Ir wrote it, as well as the fact that it makes it seem like the information it provided was fact rather then opinion.

The options I see are as follows;

It was from a Weak Communications Link, a players role that lets them send messages, or a result from some sort of investigative role that doesn't get the results themselves.

I can't see any way to prove which of those it could be so I don't know how useful that is, but I think maybe we should keep an eye out for similar messages on later nights to see if there is some kind of correlation.

BTW I'm pretty sure that message mirahawk received was from someone on the scum team and should be ignored. Pretty sure they want us to spend time on that and distract us from the game. If the mod were to send us a message he would not have had DS on it, and the scum team likely had no idea DS was going to die because some trigger happy person on our team shot him.

BTD could not have sent it because he has not more knowledge than anyone else in this game.

Perhaps, but it also included BNL who they would have known was going to die.

But I think maybe I've wasted enough time on this seeing as how at the very least it won't be useful at the moment.

Yeah I was kinda thinking that the message was probably from BTD, but I had some problems with the way it was presented that made me wonder if it was or not.

You see there was flavor part from the game at the beginning of the message about how I found it, but then there was a substantial part of the message itself that was kinda dripping with Ttyll flavor as well which I'm not sure if BTD would have included in the message. The message also alludes to me being watched by some sort of secret society which I'm not sure is just part of that flavor or is a hint at something.

I asked Ir about the origin of the message since it contained enough flavor to make me a little unsure of weather it from another player or a mod communication and he told me the sender was anonymous, whatever that means.

The list of players itself is;

Aeronaut
Wisdom
BulletNLynchproof
Gamma Emerald
Gale Wing Srock
PeregrineV
DiamondSentinel
Vaxkiller

and the exact wording of the suspicion placed on them is that at least one of the players is an enemy of Ttyll.

Okay it is addressed previously, in which case I don't think it is BTD who sent it.

But lets see this, the below list is from the Player list in OP.

1. drealmerz7+
2. Vedith+*
3. BTD6_Maker+
4. Aeronaut+**
5. Wisdom+
6. eagerSnake+**^
7. texcat+
8. ThinkBig+ BulletNLynchproof+
9. copper223+* Gamma Emerald
10. Albert B. Rampage+
11. Gale Wing Srock+*
12. PeregrineV+
13. Frankjaeger+*
14. DiamondSentinel+
15. Mirhawk+
16. Vaxkiller+
17. White Queens (RachMarie + Ms Marangal)+

The list sent to Mirhawk and the one in the player list seems to be in the same order, and the below people are the ones who were excluded from the list.

1. drealmerz7+
2. Vedith+*
6. eagerSnake+**^
7. texcat+
10. Albert B. Rampage+
13. Frankjaeger+*
15. Mirhawk+
17. White Queens (RachMarie + Ms Marangal)+

If we assume the message is from scum, then atleast one player in the above list could be scum. (Except Mirhawk maybe coz he can't be that naive)

Aeronaut
Wisdom
Gamma Emerald
Gale Wing Srock
PeregrineV
Vaxkiller

The problem with assuming that the message is from one of our investigation whose results are given out to someone else, is that I haven't seen it in any game. Does anyone have an example game? What is such a role called?

Regardless though I think this information is something that we can revisit later in the game. It could probably be a clue to help us win the endgame.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Ugh, I hate that I'm going down this road.

@mirhawk

Can you look at the flavor of your message and pick something out that has not been mentioned yet? Then ask the mod in bold for some flavor on the next votecount and see if it matches.

We can compare that with existing flavor right? And he already mentioned it is similar to Irchers'.

I couldn't find Gamma's comment on the messages, what is the post number?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Scum could have a Whisperer.

I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horse ... %28film%29

to be more interesting than this: https://epicmafia.com/role/5670

PEdit: Lol okay, I thought something else.

[Gale Wing Srock]

You wanna talk complacency, we have asked eager questions and he ignores everything (im not even talking about ABR's thing) comes in and says one sentence and leaves. The real kicker is when he comes in and answers something anyone could have answered. It's like "great" he wasted his one post for this shit.

Ouch.. Well I know with a tracker and a watcher scum probably have ninjas or something special to reduce our power.

Also, I feel like scum has probably noticed this already so I should bring it to the light of everyone that the VC flavors are essential. Has anyone else noticed that yet?

Looks like it was eager who said it.

There could have been merit to this, but then we know Eager visited Gamma and ABR saw Eager do that.

Although if both of them are lying then Eager pointing it out would be silly no?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Did someone make a post a while back about what planet everyone is from? If so where is that? I cant find it.

I haven't seen one, was that from a PT?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I asked for folks in my hood, but no one answered :/

[Gale Wing Srock]

Albert B Rampage OBV SCUM! HAS PT CHAT!

j/k

Yeah, with your planet you choose. I'm assuming you choose one no one else did since you are asking the question if everyone else is in one. I'm also going to guess you are on Aerth or possibly Karo Ttyll. Now give me your monies!

That reminds me, where did you get the info that ABR must be on Aerth or Karo Ttyll?

[Gale Wing Srock]

And I'm here every night

WQ, I asked you girls about your strong opinion on Texcat. Where are you girls on that?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I

asked

for folks in my hood, but no one answered :/

Huh? Isn't your hood locked?

Asked on Thursday Nov 10!

Care to answer the below question, y/n?

Btw, What do you think of ABR's claim?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Start at twilight day 1 and read on. ALOT has happened today (day 2) and its relatively easy to miss stuff.

I guess I have to. 96-99 have been rather unhelpful.

@PV

, its the easiest thing to sit back and pass comments on others play. We don't want a spectator in the player list!

What was unhelpful? If you had answers to the questions raised why didn't you share them?
Come in the middle and help us with the fight, if not what are you doing than being 'rather unhelpful' yourself?

[Gale Wing Srock]

1. drealmerz7+
2. Vedith+*
6. eagerSnake+**^
7. texcat+
10. Albert B. Rampage+
13. Frankjaeger+*
15. Mirhawk+
17. White Queens (RachMarie + Ms Marangal)+

If we assume the message is from scum, then atleast one player in the above list could be scum. (Except Mirhawk maybe coz he can't be that naive)

I would like to correct my post here.

If we speculate for a minute that the message Mirhawk got is from scums, then the number of scums in the compliment of the set shared by the scums would rationally have more number of scums than the set that was shared.

Spoiler: Complement

Complement of A (left circle) in relation to B (right circle):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complemen ... _theory%29

[Gale Wing Srock]

Textcat feels kinda iffy and scum lean, still not sure on her.

That is a strong opinion is it?

See all I am expecting from folks is they do, what they want others to do, or think that others are not doing it that well.

Meanwhile you've just been throwing blame around all game and you haven't even had a strong opinion in any way, shape, or form

You said that I don't have a strong opinion, when in fact I do have strong opinion on players (862, 1295 are examples of my opinion on Texcat).

What does that prove? Are you not misrepresenting me while not delivering on something that you are expecting from me?

[Gale Wing Srock]

1. drealmerz7+
2. Vedith+*
6. eagerSnake+**^
7. texcat+
10. Albert B. Rampage+
13. Frankjaeger+*
15. Mirhawk+
17. White Queens (RachMarie + Ms Marangal)+

So from this list if I were to drill down for scum, then I would remove Mirhawk coz it would be naive of him to give us a clue to scum hunt that seemingly improves our chances at scum hunting.

15. Mirhawk+

Lets remove the claimed PRs coz if they false claimed then they might get caught as the game progresses.

2. Vedith+*
6. eagerSnake+**^
10. Albert B. Rampage+

That gives the below list:

1. drealmerz7+
7. texcat+
13. Frankjaeger+*
17. White Queens (RachMarie + Ms Marangal)+

I think drealmerz7+ is town coz they are actively trying to solve the game, and I have a gut Town Lean on Frank (which I am yet to develop).

That leaves Texcat and WQ. Personally I feel that both of them have a great chance of flipping scum, but WQ has shown a lot of improvement lately (2412 - 2414, 2473 definitely is an improvement to their prior play). So I would like to give them some leeway for now.

Which means that the scummiest player to me in the game (which is also the case without going into the messages deduction thingy) is Texcat!

VOTE: Texcat

She is scummy to me from two separate ways of scum hunting, I would highly recommend that you folks take a look at her.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Oh and one more thing, I was scum reading Bullet because he was showing signs of selective scum hunting. After his flip I realized that it could be because of the mason group.

How do we differentiate selective scum hunting from Masons and the selective scum hunting from scums? Please advice / link me on this one, as I am currently unaware of this difference and its a major part of my scum hunting method.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay, I am now able to understand the difference, the deduction to 'Gale, frank, gamma and eager' also makes sense.

But I am not sure on who to vote between them. Will need some help here, eager and Franks' plays seem town to me. Gamma I think is scummy, but I am not as confident in my read on him anymore.

I will try to read their meta a little to get more clarity on my reads, the thing that makes me question my Gamma read is his willingness to compromise on his stance, which required effort (1513) or gave more clarity (2345). But then again he was caught earlier in the day and him calling players town (2105, 2141) is suspicious.

Also overall I feel him to be null with faint hints of scumminess (except that jump on me which I think is scum instinct that creeps out of night plans), which along with him not having a night action means I definitely have to look at his meta to get a lock on that read.

UNVOTE: Texcat

[Gale Wing Srock]

So I was looking through Gamma's ISO and remembered that ABR had claimed watcher.
This made me wonder why Vedith hadn't asked ABR to watch him N1 (due to this: 1079). Which would make sense since he was protecting Wisdom that night.

Then I remembered that I had asked this before:

Wait wait wait lol.

Did ABR claim that he also watched Gamma N1? That is ridiculous!

Code: Select all

The Voyeur is an informative role that can target a player at night and learn what was done to them that night (protection, investigation, etc), but not who did it.

Voyeurs can be of any alignment. 

Code: Select all

The Watcher is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, targeted that player the same Night (but not what actions were performed on that player). 

So what ever special watcher ABR is, he must have been on Gamma to see Eager do the informative role on him.

@

ABR

same question to you, what made you watch Gamma over anyone else in the game?

Or ABR is a hybrid variant of voyeur and tracker, which is hard to believe and is not what he claimed.

Frank is town

I'm a watcher. He visited Gamma yesterday using an investigative.

I'm a special watcher.

I'm a watcher/voyeur. Deal with it.

Eager isn't a cop actually. He's a tracker.

I know this because I saw him.

So either he saw Eager, and is a hybrid variant of voyeur and tracker; or he is a voyeur who targeted Gamma.

In both of these cases ABR's claim is false and he must be scum.

A) If Eager is town tracker, ABR cannot be town tracker (hybrid variant of voyeur and tracker).
B) If ABR is a voyeur then he actually targeted Gamma and not Eager.

Is it possible that he faked claimed a scum buddies role result and screwed up?

Now in this case, ABR has a lot of motive to clear Gamma's alignment, if they are scum buddies together.

VOTE: ABR

[Gale Wing Srock]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Voyeur

Please read the above link for reference on Voyeur and variants (Watcher and Tracker).

One more thing to note, is that the above case is based on the speculation that Eager is town tracker.

However if we speculate that Eager is scum, then the only motive for ABR to fake claim would be for him to be scum with Eager or both of them (this case seems meh though, since I don't think the scums would take such a big risk to clear themselves and bring more focus on themselves).

[Gale Wing Srock]

nope

Do you think he did not fake claim?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay there is a particular case where it could be possible, but for that ABR has to be certainly town. And it would mean that Eager is also town.

In which case I don't understand the scum read on him.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay there is a particular case where it could be possible, but for that ABR has to be certainly town. And it would mean that Eager is also town.

In which case I don't understand the scum read on him.

Okay wait correction, in this case it would mean that Eager and Gamma are not of same alignment.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Sorry, Eager and Gamma are either both town or they are not scum together.

In which case we should not lynch either of them right?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I checked more into Gamma during night phase (thanks for the extension), and it resulted in me thinking he's probably town. I still want WQ to sign their posts and am more than happy to force them. If they refuse, I'll be glad to lynch them on principle.

VOTE: WhiteQueens

Also, it's finals week, everything under the sun is due tonight, with a couple of things due Monday/Wednesday; I will be busy.

This means that both of them are town, or Eager is scum (less likely).

Yeah I don't want to lynch either of them. Which leaves only Frank for me :/

I will ISO and meta read him later. Although I have to recheck this later as well, Adios!

[Gale Wing Srock]

Guys please don't hammer, I am town Yo!

[Gale Wing Srock]

See if Texcat is not mason then she is scum. Idk who are all masons so don't judge me by my ignorance. If you are lynching me for non conformity then you have to tell me why I should conform to the lynch targets?

I have to see them as scum, I am not going to lynch a null read for you guys when you could be the scums who are manipulating town. I don't know for sure okay?

Eager, Frank, Gamma is understandable but why should I think you are town and pushing them? You could be scum and doing that as well.

UNVOTE: ABR

[Gale Wing Srock]

Also I want everyone on my wagon to tell me your own personal reason for voting me.

Me hammering BTD6 without waiting for their claim is a common reason, everyone in the game can state that reason as their reason to vote me. I want your own personal reason.

However minor it might be, what made you vote me?

So these two reasons are common to all and are banned:
1) Lurking
2) Hammering BTD6 without waiting for their claim

If you don't have another reason, then you basically don't mind my lynch and are indifferent towards my lynch, and are not lynching me because you find me as scum. Which means you are either under conf bias or just want to see a flip or are tired of trying to figure out who the scum is or are scum yourselves.

If the above listed two reasons are your major reasons, then what are your own personal minor ones?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I want the money and you're not a town read.

Okay guess I deserve that one right? kek

Others, no repeating okay, find your own personal major / minor reason.

[Gale Wing Srock]

I don't have much time for mafia this morning but I am paying attention here absolutely.

I am comfortable and liking your lynch because I think you are scum, for so many reasons. The primary yet general reason (as there are soo many examples to it), is the way you repeatedly have been trying to frame things (as I see it) through the game and then push your agenda based on that framing (the planet choice thing right at the beginning is the first example, but there have been more egregious since), on top of which you then would continue to flip flop your frames and your pursuit of ...whomever whatever. Again, many examples, and almost all of them seem scum-motivated maneuverings/positionings rather than indecisive towny-minded. Like, SO MUCH. It reeks as scummyness trying to seem town a lot of times. So many things...yep, definitely good with your lynch, waiting for your claim.

Which, it not coming in your next post after you are put to L-1, stinks too.

Fair enough, but is my personality, I am driven to think about the game only when I am involved enough in a particular trail.

Now if following the trail I end up in some place where logic doesn't work then I go back to where I started.

It is basic trail and error in solving any puzzle.

I don't think this is scum only trait though. It will be a scum only trait if all my trails are leading us to mislynches. In which case you will have evidence to support your suspicion.

[Gale Wing Srock]

^needs hammering

Nope!

This is scummy ^

[Gale Wing Srock]

Oh and I haven't claimed yet, so no hammering till all the answers are in.

[Gale Wing Srock]

what purpose does your question serve?

and dont tell me "ill figure out which votes on me are scum" because even a kid could figure this is ridiculous

If you are town, you would know what this is going to do after my flip.

[Gale Wing Srock]

what purpose does your question serve?

and dont tell me "ill figure out which votes on me are scum" because even a kid could figure this is ridiculous

If you are town, you would know what this is going to do after my flip.

I'm town and I have no idea.

You are sober is it?

"after my flip."

[Gale Wing Srock]

it is going to do nothing even if you're town

We will see about that, first tell your reason don't dodge it.

[Gale Wing Srock]

my reason is im scum and i want to mislynch you

Okay that is fair enough. Next!

[Gale Wing Srock]

Spoiler: For PV

Start at twilight day 1 and read on. ALOT has happened today (day 2) and its relatively easy to miss stuff.

I guess I have to. 96-99 have been rather unhelpful.

@PV

, its the easiest thing to sit back and pass comments on others play. We don't want a spectator in the player list!

What was unhelpful? If you had answers to the questions raised why didn't you share them?
Come in the middle and help us with the fight, if not what are you doing than being 'rather unhelpful' yourself?

No information was provided to help me get better reads.

No questions, or I would have asked.

We are all trying to solve a complicated puzzle here.

Everyone has their own role in this. If we compare the objective of this game to making fire.

And you have the flint, but have not shared that information.
And see couple of people trying to build a fire by rubbing sticks.

What should you do?

Should you share with them that you have the flint and that it can be used to make fire more easily?

Or should you tell them that it is all pretty useless because you haven't seen the fire yet?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Pere, do you need a quick rundown?

Vax, what is your major / minor reason?

[Gale Wing Srock]

You act like everyone is scum reading you for hammering. But its more than that. You scold everyone for voting BTD6 (like I was) and then you vote him! Then sad post. AWWWW. I feel so bad!

The basic premise of the lynch itself is so bad.

If we want to lynch the non contributors, then DS is the guy to lynch because his posts are fluff and he posts a lot of fluff.

If we want to lynch the lurkers, then Texcat comes to mind.

The absolute truth is that we are lynching someone for weird language. That is the only difference I see between Frank and BTD6.

But no one cares for the truth *smh*

You know what I am convinced that BTD6's claim is not going to change anything. People are still going to lynch him for weird language.

And mind you, I agree that they are scummy. Just thinking that there are other MORE scummy people in the game who we could lynch. *sigh*

Anyways, might as well get it done now so we can have more time to reassess the game during the night.

VOTE: BTD6

Also guys start reading / rereading, I still have to do a lot of catch up to do too, hopefully tomorrow will be better.

I am so saddened by all this

That said I want a few answers from WQ and Pere before we lynch.

I'll write them up in a little bit, but i need to take my lunch.
UNVOTE:

I don't think you have any reason.
It seems like an emotional response to me.

[Gale Wing Srock]

You didn't ask what 1791 was for, and you ignored it in your post 1799. Why?

I am so saddened by all this

[Gale Wing Srock]

And it looks like any sort of pushback and you back off, once again seemingly without reason.

This @Gale

This is a good point.

I see this as working with people.

I am 90% sure Texcat is scummy, but my town read who is also a mason says no to it with no reason. Then I think about it again. Why is he saying no?

It still doesn't make sense for me that Texcat is town, and I am asked to vote within a block with no proper reason.

Gale, frank, gamma, eager

These are the lynches i wont say no to at the moment

I don't see these guys scummy enough to lynch tbh, and that is when I said this.

See if Texcat is not mason then she is scum. Idk who are all masons so don't judge me by my ignorance. If you are lynching me for non conformity then you have to tell me why I should conform to the lynch targets?

I have to see them as scum, I am not going to lynch a null read for you guys when you could be the scums who are manipulating town. I don't know for sure okay?

Eager, Frank, Gamma is understandable but why should I think you are town and pushing them? You could be scum and doing that as well.

UNVOTE: ABR

[Gale Wing Srock]

Spoiler: For PV

We are all trying to solve a complicated puzzle here.

Which is?

Complicated puzzle is finding scum (informed minority) from all of the players. Differentiating scum from Masons (disclosed town minority).

Everyone has their own role in this. If we compare the objective of this game to making fire.

And you have the flint, but have not shared that information.
And see couple of people trying to build a fire by rubbing sticks.

What should you do?

Should you share with them that you have the flint and that it can be used to make fire more easily?

Or should you tell them that it is all pretty useless because you haven't seen the fire yet?

If I'm getting the analogy here-
I'm not sure I have the flint.
Rubbing sticks is a start.

If I have the flint, sure, I'll start the fire.
If I don't have the flint, then they can keep rubbing the sticks since I need a fire.

With that said, how is this relevant?

Then why are you demotivating the effort people are putting in? You think it is not in the right direction? then point the right direction.
You don't have the flint, then tell them what you know about rubbing the sticks.

Don't stand in the corner and demotivate people is the point.

Next time I will try the point straight up.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale why haven't you claimed?

Have you given your personal major / minor reason yet?

[Gale Wing Srock]

I threw you a bone and you didn't take it, then you quickhammered, then you didn't do anything townie or productive

Quick hammered is banned as a reason, but let me try finding the bone again.

I would like to argue not doing anything productive, check out my cases on Gamma and Texcat for reference.

[Gale Wing Srock]

so, now it's looking like Vax unvoted his scum-buddy to stall the wagon?

GWS, you get to L-1, you claim

this isn't when YOU put everyone on the spot, this is when YOU are on the spot

geez

I am going to claim, regardless of L-1 or L-2. Although I want the wagoners to answer a simple question. Is that too much to ask?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale, if not DS then who of the leading bandwagons are you down to lynch?

Okay I found the bone

Alright I will claim, Texcat is scummy as is, WQ idk if would give one.

So I am a one-shot vig and I shot DS N1.

I had very less time Day 1 and the hammer on BTD6 is explained below.

Spoiler: BTD6 Hammer

Intent to Hammer

.

It is pretty mean to not give the VI a chance, but if no one sees reason then there is no point.

The basic premise of the lynch itself is so bad.

If we want to lynch the non contributors, then DS is the guy to lynch because his posts are fluff and he posts a lot of fluff.

If we want to lynch the lurkers, then Texcat comes to mind.

The absolute truth is that we are lynching someone for weird language. That is the only difference I see between Frank and BTD6.

But no one cares for the truth *smh*

You know what I am convinced that BTD6's claim is not going to change anything. People are still going to lynch him for weird language.

And mind you, I agree that they are scummy. Just thinking that there are other MORE scummy people in the game who we could lynch. *sigh*

Anyways, might as well get it done now so we can have more time to reassess the game during the night.

VOTE: BTD6

Also guys start reading / rereading, I still have to do a lot of catch up to do too, hopefully tomorrow will be better.

It was pretty clear that BTD6 was VT at this point.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale, you want everyone to say their reasons for voting you, but I'd like to hear your reasons for thinking that I'm scum 90%. Is it still because I didn't see any reason to believe that there was exactly one scum in our sisterhood? Pretty feeble.

Texcat, I am not seeing your active participation. You are coasting.

Borrowing other people's reads, lurking, and then some more.

You don't have anything of value to add in major points that are discussed in the game, you add to minor ones that don't progress the game. (show me one contribution from you that helped or tried to help us further our read)

Day 1 it is okay, but it has been consistent. You are too comfortable were you are in the game right now, and that is not something I expect from townies.

Unless you are a claimed mason, don't expect special treatment from me.

[Gale Wing Srock]

@Texcat: You voted for him right?

I told you BTD6 seems like a VI, what did you do about that?

[Gale Wing Srock]

dude if you are town how many innocent townsfolk do you have to be personally responsible for killing until you are satisfied?

You think Texcat is town? You are not Mason, so give me your reason.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Wisdom, ABR, Texcat want to hammer me, Why? There is still 5 days left today, why are you in a hurry?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Yes, I've been telling Vedith texcat is not a scum suspect for me since day 1

I'm telling you that Aeronaut and Vedith are scum lol

Wtf are you talking about?

Vedith is scum or town for you? And what is your reason for not scum suspecting Texcat for lurking and coasting?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Vedith and Aeronaut are scum. Lurking and coasting are non alignment indicative. They just show that shes disinterested.

Then why are you not engaging her?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Why would I engage someone who is not with their head in the game? I'm not engaging aero either.

Not with their head in the game? How do you know this?

Also I have seen you scum hunt lurkers, so this is bs you are feeding right now.

[Gale Wing Srock]

and ABR you posted like twice on day 1 so f off with that

I think there are atleast three scums in my L-1 wagon. Texcat and ABR are in both.

Day 1 VC #29 (LYNCH)

BTD6_Maker (9) (LYNCH) - Aeronaut, Mirhawk, Texcat, Vedith, Bullet, Wisdom, Albert, Dreal, Gale

(Hammer reached on Post 1738.)

Day 2 VC #16

Gale Wing Srock (6) (L-2) - Texcat, Wisdom, White Queens, Albert, Vedith, Dreal

---

ABR is not scum hunting Texcat and Texcat is defending ABR as null.

For ABR, lurking is typically a scumtell. So, apprehensively having a scumread on him.

In my experience with ABR, lurking is a null tell.

Spoiler: ABR not scum hunting Texcat for lurking and coasting

dude if you are town how many innocent townsfolk do you have to be personally responsible for killing until you are satisfied?

You think Texcat is town? You are not Mason, so give me your reason.

Yes, I've been telling Vedith texcat is not a scum suspect for me since day 1

I'm telling you that Aeronaut and Vedith are scum lol

Wtf are you talking about?

Vedith is scum or town for you? And what is your reason for not scum suspecting Texcat for lurking and coasting?

Vedith and Aeronaut are scum. Lurking and coasting are non alignment indicative. They just show that shes disinterested.

And if you think lurking and coasting is scummy, how can you say Aeronaut isn't doing that?

Vedith and Aeronaut are scum. Lurking and coasting are non alignment indicative. They just show that shes disinterested.

Then why are you not engaging her?

Why would I engage someone who is not with their head in the game? I'm not engaging aero either.

Why would I engage someone who is not with their head in the game? I'm not engaging aero either.

Not with their head in the game? How do you know this?

Also I have seen you scum hunt lurkers, so this is bs you are feeding right now.

[Gale Wing Srock]

hammer Gale I don't care I think hes SK or scum

For real?

With his claim he pretty much CAN'T be scum, and I kind of doubt he's a SK either considering he shot DS day one.

Not to mention if a second person dies tomorrow night we know he's lying.

This is just about the most confirmable claim he could have made, this is a bad lynch.

he could be scum trying to out the actual vig
he could be SK who planned to claim vig so he shot someone town wouldn't mind dead
don't be so shallow

If I am scum trying to out the actual vig, then there should be two flips on N2 and/or following nights.
Same thing for SK, either case if there are two flips tonight then I am fried duck tomorrow.

Why are you so eager to get me lynched today is what I don't understand

[Gale Wing Srock]

So you are telling me
1. We are playing mafia
2. Don't stop people from playing mafia

Is this correct?

1. We are playing mafia
2. Don't demotivate people from figuring out this mafia game.
3. If you don't have anything to add/contribute, then scum hunt.

This is what I mean!

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okay there is already claimed PRs and Masons so I think this information would be more beneficial to town than scum. So I want to out it, it is regarding an IC this game.

Should I do it or not?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Tell us how you got this knowledge. Did you "find" it or is it part of your role.

Don't go into more detail just yet, just tell us if the knowledge is part of your role or not.

Deduced it, seems real though. Lets say I am 90% sure.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale, if not DS then who of the leading bandwagons are you down to lynch?

Okay I found the bone

Alright I will claim, Texcat is scummy as is, WQ idk if would give one.

So I am a one-shot vig and I shot DS N1.

I had very less time Day 1 and the hammer on BTD6 is explained below.

Spoiler: BTD6 Hammer

Intent to Hammer

.

It is pretty mean to not give the VI a chance, but if no one sees reason then there is no point.

The basic premise of the lynch itself is so bad.

If we want to lynch the non contributors, then DS is the guy to lynch because his posts are fluff and he posts a lot of fluff.

If we want to lynch the lurkers, then Texcat comes to mind.

The absolute truth is that we are lynching someone for weird language. That is the only difference I see between Frank and BTD6.

But no one cares for the truth *smh*

You know what I am convinced that BTD6's claim is not going to change anything. People are still going to lynch him for weird language.

And mind you, I agree that they are scummy. Just thinking that there are other MORE scummy people in the game who we could lynch. *sigh*

Anyways, might as well get it done now so we can have more time to reassess the game during the night.

VOTE: BTD6

Also guys start reading / rereading, I still have to do a lot of catch up to do too, hopefully tomorrow will be better.

It was pretty clear that BTD6 was VT at this point.

If true, that was an abhorrent shot. Why Diamond?

You want long narrative or short one? (I prefer the long one)

[Gale Wing Srock]

If I am scum trying to out the actual vig, then there should be two flips on N2 and/or following nights.
Same thing for SK, either case if there are two flips tonight then I am fried duck tomorrow.

surviving for one more day is still better than dying now

So you are ruling out me being SK then?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Spoiler: Dawn 1 + Day 1

Okay so coming into Day 1 my thought was 1-shoter = one scum team in 17 players = 4-5.
I thought getting a sure shot scum read would be difficult.

Then I could find traces of Multi-ball and I was more sure that I have to shoot some other night.

I was also extremely busy irl and started lagging tens of pages. I believe scums shoot lurkers for PR hunt.
I got pretty scared and started posting hastily and got scum read, I read up a little and found that scum lean is good for short run.

I took an educated guess that BTD is most likely VT, since if he was PR he would have reacted differently with respect to claiming (I think he is still in the learning stage with respect to critical response, so wouldn't expect him to claim calmly like ABR or the likes).
So I figured the Hammer will get me past the scum night actions.

Spoiler: Twilight + Night1

I was sad that I had done a stupid mistake, and now I have to shoot tonight.

I had already got scum pings from DS, Vedith, Texcat, and Bullet during the day.

During the reread I found that Vedith said that he isn't going to let Texcat live.

Don't worry about it.
I'm still not voting outside of the group but Texcat isn't living.

I thought that he could shoot Texcat. Was thinking Multiball / SK and I am a 1-shot maybe there was a full time Vig also? Idk, basically the multi-ball thought was confusing me here.

I read on him and found him to be not as scummy late saturday night, but at this point it didn't strike me to revisit Texcat.

I felt that out of DS and Bullet, the most worst is DS, since his posts pinged me thrice during reread (compared to once with Bullet), and he was posting shit load of junk.

DS pings: 73 (moon logic + PL on WQ), 500, 524, 551 (Beating around the bush), 1486 - 1511 (Manipulating and Twisting facts).

Bullet ping: 580 (This seemed like he knows Wisdom is town) continues in 882 and 1019. Bullet is basically selectively scum hunting, which is a scum trait for me and I have also played a game with him where he didn't do that as town http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=64495.

So that is the tragedy of my 1-shot

I still think it was a decent shot because I personally had a lot of progress since yesterday, but may be could have done differently? Idk :/

[Gale Wing Srock]

One question at a time please.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Wisdom, what are you doing?

[Gale Wing Srock]

@Texcat: You voted for him right?

I told you BTD6 seems like a VI, what did you do about that?

Yes, I voted for him. I thought he was scum. You evidently thought he was either VT or VI and yet you not only voted for him, you hammered him before he could claim. Do you have a point here?

The point is you are lurking and coasting, and you didn't address my thought that he is VI. Which if you were town, you should have addressed.

[Gale Wing Srock]

I still think it was a decent shot because I personally had a lot of progress since yesterday, but may be could have done differently? Idk :/

I never townread Diamond, yet I was this game. I really hate that shot.

And you are 0-2 currently. How do you expect to fix that if you are not lynched?

Well I have made sure that my post lynch is worthwhile. That is the max I can do right now.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Wisdom, what are you doing?

trying to get my head around the fact that I have to accept people might have the IQ of a potato when im scumhunting

still cant after 4 years

Okay get folks off my case, I might be useful since I am a potato head

[Gale Wing Srock]

I don't think Mirhawk is scum though.

[Gale Wing Srock]

System crashed need some time. V/LA for now.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Have no night actions now, so Eager Snake and / or ABR can check that.

[Gale Wing Srock]

For the record if I had another shot, then it would been Texcat tonight. But she is getting better with her contributions now. Not reading the game much but she is contributing nonetheless.

If between Frank and Aero we had to lynch one then it must be Aero he had gone awfully silent, as though he is comfortable with how the game is going atm.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Okies
VOTE: Aero

[Gale Wing Srock]

Probably my worst performance in a mafia game in this forum. Sorry for the misplays guys. All my reads were borked this game.

I am going to take a break from mafia for a while, this is embarrassing. *face palm*

[Gale Wing Srock]

Everyone has a bad game once in a while Gale, it's ok

It's all good Gale. You can look back at my games and at least five would be worse than you played in this one; don't worry about it!

I wonder if I should have shot DS N1 or not. The two shot confused me a bit.