California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Sarcastro]

Hello everyone.

I haven't quite read the whole game yet. I read the first ten or so pages of day one, then got bored and skipped to the duel, after which I read day two with varying levels of skimming.

One quick question: did nobody notice that LML wrote "LACE" and "XYZZY" in all caps right before Xyzzy died? Maybe it's a bit of a stretch (I would say it's too obvious, except that nobody seems to have noticed it), and I'm probably just imagining things, but I did think it weird that nobody even commented on it.

I haven't really got much in the way of suspicions yet, and unfortunately I'm going to be very busy tomorrow (seeing as how it's my birthday), but I should have plenty of time on the weekend to do a more complete read of the game.

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The reason Mr Grey might be included in the condorcet, when PJ or Batman or Hilary Clinton won't be: Mr Grey is not in the game, but he is in the house.
PJ etc, are not

here

. I believe mith's just being true to his game flavour (as is typical of mith) by having Mr G able to be voted for.

Can we go back to IH, Lee and Dani's replacement? (I've forgotten who is replacing. Too much tangent.)

Hi, I'm Dani's replacement.

I still haven't finished my complete read-through, but there are a couple things I want to say before I forget. First of all, I'm a bit surprised at the reaction to my comment about LML. When I first noticed what LML wrote, I was extremely sure that he had killed Xyzzy, and was expecting someone to accuse him at any time. As I continued reading and realised that nobody had noticed (or at least thought it significant enough to comment on), I decided that maybe I was jumping to conclusions a little quickly. I almost didn't even say anything for fear of looking foolish, but I decided that I should at least see what everyone else thought. I was definitely expecting a more "Nah, it's just a coincidence" response, but now I'm starting to wonder again if my initial conclusion was correct. On the one hand, it seems intuitively unlikely, but on the other, it's kind of a funny coincidence. The possibility that a clever SK noticed what LML wrote and tried to frame him is another possibility.

My second point is just on this whole votable Mr. Grey SK thing. I take the same view expressed above - that Mr. Grey being votable is more likely to just be an extension of the flavour. Even if Mr. Grey is votable, I'd still doubt that he's lynchable, and I'd doubt even more that he's an SK or any other role.

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Well that's interesting.

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Not to mention that that assumption totally doesn't jive with the xyzzy kill. I don't really care that LmL used LACE and XYZZY. FoS: whoever brought it up. You wasted our time with your petty suspicions. Die, person whose identity I'm too lazy to look up!

Yeah, because clearly the pro-town thing to do is not to point out something that everyone else missed.

I don't know what to make of all of this. I really don't. I don't care if it looks scummy or what, but I felt like the best thing to do would be to point it out to everyone and see what the general opinion was. Do you think I'm trying to get LML lynched? Do you think I'm cleverly trying to trick someone else into pushing the lynch while I remain non-committal? Doesn't seem to be working out too well for me.

Seriously, I'm mystified as to how anybody can find my bringing this up scummy. Are you seriously saying you wouldn't at least have

mentioned

something like this if you noticed it?

[Sarcastro]

Sarcastro: You haven't answered Tali's question about why you'd think it's odd for someone to "have a player who noticed something suspicious about another player on my condorcet?" Post 1130

That's probably because I'm not LML. Why are you so eager to have me answer someone else's question when it's obvious that you don't even care enough about the question to know to whom it was addressed?

Also, Pooky's convinced me with regards to the LML-lace thing.

Unvote, Vote: LoudmouthLee

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Hey, Foolinc, why haven't you answered my question yet?

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That wasn't the question. The question was why you were so eager when you didn't know the context. What did you expect from my answer, exactly?

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MBL, did you give an explanation for your vote on me? Is it a holdover from Dani or something?

I think we can all agree that LML should be lynched. The more I think about it, the more I don't like the lace "coincidence" and the more I dislike his reaction to Talitha and Pooky, as well. Oh, and his claim, too. Yeah, he needs to be more dead.

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Because Cubs was wrong or lying about how the duel worked? In case you didn't notice, he also claimed the wrong name, which, in my mind, at least, casts a little bit of doubt on everything else he said about his role.

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I agree with Pooky.

I'd also like a better explanation from MBL for his vote on me. As far as I can tell, it's a holdover from some weak suspicion he had of Dani.

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You're right that I should probably be doing a better job of that. I admit that I've kind of just been wanting to finish off this day with an LML lynch and put in more effort starting tomorrow.

That still seems like a weak reason to be voting for me now, especially since you haven't even been pushing for a bandwagon on me or anything. Don't you feel strongly about anyone else?

So yeah, I'm not a huge fan of yours right now, if that means anything.

Let's see, what else? Pooky is clearly pro-town. Gaspar looks pro-town as well. A lot of people haven't posted much since I entered the game, though. I'd like to hear more from IH, who has been even more peripheral than I have.

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Pooky is so win.

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And how did you acquire this one-shot cop role, LML? Is part of your regular role?

I have to say I'm not really believing you here.

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It seems like an odd coincidence that you happened to investigate last night the person who got you lynched today.

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No, I don't think it does seem odd. Do you want me to just take your word for it that he's scum? You have no reason to help the town, and plenty of reason to want to spite Pooky.

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So you're unable to invent a reason for your supposed investigation last night?

Yeah, I thought so.

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Well that's awfully convenient.

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Foolinc, are you just trying to look smart or something by guessing LML's?

He's not the Count of Monte Cristo (unless he was lying), because he claimed to be from Fresno.

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EBWOP: "...by guessing LML's role?"

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I don't get it, Foolinc. Is there some kind of requirement that you have to say your secret word every day? Did I miss something?

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I do want to add that there is a chance he daykilled Xyzzy. But that would mean LML was telling the truth about his one shots and had a day vig.

I think you're jumping to conclusions. LML having a dayvig does not prove at all that he had the other one-shot powers he claimed to have, especially when he didn't even claim to have a dayvig.

I'm not really sure whether or not LML was telling the truth about not killing Xyzzy. I don't think it matters right now, though, because if he didn't, I'm not sure what we even have anything to go on.

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If I had to pick out two scum, one of them would probably be Sarc, too. I don't really know what's wrong with me in this game, but I'm having trouble deciding upon anything.

Hey, Pooky, who's the scum?

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Eh, whatever. I choose to assume that Logicticus is scum, because I don't like his vote on CES.

Vote: logicticus

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Some random thoughts from Sarc:

- Logicticus is suspicious
- I'm not a huge fan of Gaspar's FoS of Setael. It just seems kind of random and lame. Was it Glorkspar or Primspar?
- Jeff Francis shall lead the Colorado Rockies to World Series glory (if you can call anything to do with baseball glorious), because he is Canadian
- I get the feeling that I probably shouldn't think Talitha is pro-town, even though I do
- I wonder why New Zealand and/or Australia don't change their flags. I mean, not only do they look exactly the same, they're also pretty lame

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I explained why in my vote for Logicticus. I'll give more reasoning later, when courses decide to stop crushing my soul.

And what I have a problem with is that Gaspar just pulled the FoS out of nowhere. I don't really see how it automatically looks scummy. I understand the question completely, but the FoS just seems like an odd gut reaction to have, along the lines of the "this is weird so it's scummy" thought process I hate so much.

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You've missed the point, Gaspar. As I said, I don't have a problem with what you said, I have a problem with the

FoS

. To me, the natural assumption would just be that Setael didn't realised that LML was (probably) an SK. Yes, the possibility of inside information would occur, but my reaction would not be an FoS.

I don't see why you'd need an FoS to bring it to anyone's attention. And "automatically looks scummy" and "acknowledges that it's not definitely scummy" are not mutually exclusive. When your first reaction is to FoS someone, that looks like your assumption is that it's scummy, whereas I think the correct assumption is just a question asking if Setael realises that LML probably wasn't part of a scumgroup.

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See, this is the point by which I should have gone back and examined Logicticus more closely. Unfortunately, I haven't, and so I'm telling you this so that I have another post with over 25 words. Yay me.

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Right now my vote is based pretty much entirely on your vote on Setael/CES, or, more specifically, the nonsense case behind it. I've been meaning to go back and look at your play on previous days, but I'm kind of lazy.

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Okay, then it's just the case, not the vote. Either way, I don't like the argument you made.

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Or I wasn't paying attention to anything logicticus did

before today

, which is exactly what I've said all along. My vote is based entirely on what logicticus said about CES

today

.

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What, am I suddenly the default second choice? I'd rather not be lynched, thanks.

In other news, I'm a terrible person and still haven't actually gone back and looked at anything Logicticus said before today. To be honest, I'm still willing to lynch him in spite of this.

[Sarcastro]

Gaspar speaks the truth.

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Hi, Zindy.

Please help me make Logicticus dead for being dirty, dirty scum.

Your friend,
Sarc.

Also, I'm writing something here for reasons that clearly have nothing to do with passing 25 words.

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Well, that was interesting. Question to Zindaras - what the

fuck

was that? Yeah, how about we

don't

try to lynch people at the last second before they're even given the opportunity to claim? I know it sounds a little crazy, but I really think it could work.

What is this, Foolinc, the second time you've claimed to have made a mistake in your protection?

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Well, that was interesting. Question to Zindaras - what the

fuck

was that? Yeah, how about we

don't

try to lynch people at the last second before they're even given the opportunity to claim? I know it sounds a little crazy, but I really think it could work.

No lynch=bad, remember? I tried to get the best lynch I could, which would basically have been any lynch yesterday.

Lynching MBL or Logicticus would have given us a lot more information. I've basically been everybody's second-place Condorcet throw-in. Had you even expressed suspicion of me before the last minute of yesterday?

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Bah, I am having so much trouble with this game. I realise that isn't a valid excuse for not participating much, but I've got to say something.

I kind of just want to lynch Gaspar. I'm not entirely sure why.

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised I haven't been lynched yet, considering how poorly I've been playing.

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Goddamn it, why does this game have to be so hard? Gah.

Seriously, I have no idea what to do right now. Nobody looks very scummy. I feel completely useless. I have the urge to play it like Covert Ops or something and just take the backseat and wait for somebody to tell me what to do, but I don't really see much progress being made by anyone. Can't something interesting happen? Something to think about? Can somebody just give me something to do?

Bah. I don't know what's wrong with me. I should be more active, but I'm just finding it so difficult. I almost wish someone would vote for me or something. Then at least I'd be able to defend myself rather than sit around making meaningless posts to stay above the participation limit.

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Thanks, Pooky. I knew you'd help me out.

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On a completely random note, that summary isn't great. Gérard de Villefort doesn't imprison Dantès because he has a grudge against Bonapartists; he imprisons Dantès because the letter that Dantès is carrying is

addressed to his father Noirtier

. He was protecting his own name, not just being biased.

Also, anybody have a decent meta on Thesp's bussing tendencies?

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I got your back, Pooky.

Vote: Zindaras

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Interesting fact: Thesp never says

anything

about whether he thinks Zindaras is scum. He mentions Zindaras a few times in passing and asks him a couple questions, but he never actually gives an opinion on him, while keeping him in the middle of his Condorcet list. I don't know if Thesp is likely to act this way towards his partners or what, I just thought it beared mentioning. I should have more posted from my Thesp-read fairly soon.

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I don't blame you, DP. I'd probably find me scummy, too.

For the record, though, I didn't make post 1560. Did you mean post 1567? And I really don't see what you don't like about post 1616. How exactly is frustration scummy? I could be frustrated as scum, I suppose, but that wouldn't prove anything. Do you think I was faking it and I just wanted someone to tell me what to do because I'm too lazy as scum? I'm not really sure what you're going for here.

And I just realised that I never posted the results of my Thespvestigation. I'll do that in a minute.

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Sorry, I've been busy and mostly ignoring the site lately (funnily enough, I tend to post more when I have more school-related things to do).

My Thespvestigation was not very productive. However, besides the thing about Zindaras, I think one could make a case for Thesp being scum with Foolinc. He expresses mild suspicion of Foolinc for several isolated reasons, but never actually turns anything into a case against Foolinc. He also keep Foolinc towards the middle of his Condorcet lists. On the flip side, he never really says much about CES at all, and yet CES is always near the top of his Condorcet lists.

I'm not really sure what either of these mean, since I've never played with Thesp before (or if I have, I've forgotten). Feel free to analyse them as you wish.

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Well, you are a meaniepants, but that's not why I'm voting for you. I'm voting for you because Pooky told me to. And also because you seem like a reasonable candidate based on Thesp's actions toward you (or lack thereof).

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Pooky is clearly pro-town. Zindaras, Foolinc, and Gaspar are all better lynches than Pooky, although I suppose only Zindaras is really realistic at this point.

For future, we should probably work on trying to lynch people before the deadline.

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Claim please, Zindy.

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So it turns out Pooky was town. Who would've guessed? Besides all the people who were actually paying attention and trying to lynch the scum, of course.

Just to let everyone know, Gaspar and Zindaras are scumbuddies. I guarantee it.

By the way, I suspect that I may be daykilled. If this happens... well, hopefully you'll figure it out.

Vote: Zindaras

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Maybe we are at Lylo, but my vote is on scum, so I'm fine with it.

No, I'm not a cop, but the last 24 hours or so of the last day were very clarifying for me. Gaspar's vote for Zindaras looked very much like a weak bus attempt, and Zindy is obvscum.

You would have quite happily gone along with a "gambit" on someone else? What does that mean? You only think it's a gambit because of who I'm targeting?

I'm fine with claiming if people want me to. A Gaspar claim would be very nice, though. As would the Zindy claim that should have come yesterday (and would've, if it weren't for that absolutely terrible Pookywagon).

By the way, you can disregard that daykill comment.

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I never use Condorcet lists in other games, so why should I use one here? Note that the purpose you're suggesting Condorcets be used for (keeping track of where everybody ranks in scumminess) has nothing to do with the fact that they determine deadline lynches.

I'm not scum with Gaspar, because I'm not scum. There, I just saved you some work.

Am I the only one who kind of likes the idea of a massclaim, by the way?

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I believe Gaspar's claim, despite the fact that I'm Dantés.

Because I'm pretty sure that there is more than one Dantés.

Specifically, I'm Number 34 (referring to Dantés number while he was imprisoned in the Château d'If). I'd rather keep my claim to rolename for now, but I'll reveal more later and/or if enough people ask me to.

I've been trying to decide if this explains Cubs' strange claim. I originally thought that there was an Edmund Dantés role and a Count of Monte Cristo role to go along with mine, representing the three stages of Dantés' life, but Gaspar's claim has made me wonder about that. I've also wondered if perhaps Cubs' rolename was given to him as The Count of Monte Cristo, which makes me think that perhaps on my death, I'll be shown as having the rolename of a famous prisoner from Fresno or something. Also note that I am never explicitly called either Dantés or The Count of Monte Cristo in my role PM, though it is made very clear that I am him.

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Talitha, are you suggesting that I intentionally soft-claimed cop in such a way that if people did not immediately start voting for Gaspar/Zindy, I would be able to deny that I was doing so? Because if I were fakeclaiming cop, I would probably just say "Hi, I'm a cop with guilties on Gaspar and Zindaras". Speaking of which, wouldn't it be a little stupid to claim cop with two guilties? Most cops probably would have come forward after one, especially while there was still a claimed doctor alive. I'm not an idiot, and I would notice something like that if I were claiming cop.

Note also that I have a tendency to make statements of exaggerated certainty. I haven't done it much in this game, because I haven't been very confident in my play, but I can give you plenty of examples of my doing it in the past.

Zindaras, why haven't you claimed yet? Seriously, claim now.

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If I was soft-claiming, then why did I clarify that I was not a cop after Setael voted for Zindaras and both you and IH expressed some degree of agreement/belief? Gaspar was the only one who seemed to doubt me immediately, and that would make sense no matter what, since I accused him of being scum. If I were scum in that position, a full-blown cop claim looks fairly promising (assuming I even get to that position as scum, which, as I stated before, is improbable).

Zindaras, why haven't you claimed yet? Seriously, you are taking way too long. At least four people have expressed a willingness to lynch you today, and that's not even taking into account that you should have claimed yesterday. Your blatant refusal is incredibly anti-town.

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Zindaras. Claim. Now. You've already broken the rules by transparently lurking for over 72 hours to avoid having to claim.

And yeah, Talitha is probably scum too.

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I am so pissed off at Zindaras right now. He had better have a pretty fucking good reason for disappearing like this, right in the middle of a game with a two-week deadline when he

should have claimed days ago

. Fuck. This is ridiculous. And now it's going to take forever for a replacement to be found, because this game is just so bloody long and boring.

Ugh. We've already wasted a week of this day doing absolutely fucking nothing because Zindaras is being an idiot, so I'm going to come out and say it: I have a daykill, and I want a massclaim. I'm going to be deciding the order, because, according to Gaspar's stated willingness to help the scum quicklynch, a single pro-town death is enough to give the game to the scum (if there are four left, which people seem to be assuming). So basically, if you're pro-town, not claiming means we lose the game. Good times, eh? Handily, this also pretty much confirms me as pro-town, assuming Gaspar is telling the truth.

Zindaras (or his replacement) will be going first. I think Talitha will be second. I'll think about the rest of the order. I'm open to suggestions.

I realise that this might not be the correct play. But I'm so fucking frustrated right now that I don't care. We have made absolutely

no

progress since I joined the game, besides lynching LML. It's Lylo or close to it and people still don't seem to fucking care. Certainly Zindyscum doesn't care. So we're going to be doing this my way, or I kill you. Savvy?

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My daykill has nothing to do with my role. That's all I'm going to say for now.

You're right - it probably doesn't make a huge difference what order we claim in. If you'd like to claim first, go ahead. I'm certainly not going to kill anyone for claiming voluntarily. As of right now, I am content to wait a day or two for Zindaras or a replacement, as long as I feel confident that the rest of the claims will be speedy.

And no, we don't lose automatically if a townie gets daykilled. Assuming there are four scum, they'd have to vote for someone and hope Gaspar sticks to his word about hammering. Therefore, assuming I don't have to kill anyone over not claiming, the day will end with a single post in which I daykill someone and hammer someone else. I have confirmation that the kill would go through before the lynch in this case.

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Yes, Glork, you have the right idea of where my daykill came from. I also feared a trick, which is why I posted my cryptic thing about fearing a daykill. I didn't want to reveal anything, but at the same time, I was hoping that the fact that I saw my own death coming would tip people off if they were offered the opportunity. In retrospect, I understand how it seemed like I was just afraid I would be daykilled for my role.

I don't plan on vigging you, Glork. I believe your claim. I suppose you could be anti-town, but the thing about Mr. Grey disappearing from the Condorcet does seem to prove that there's some element of truth there. You could still be scum with a kickass claim, but I think there are much better options at this point.

I'm not really sure why you're so worried about my vigging you. I believe your claim for now, and I really have no interest in killing a neutral in a game that presumably has a large number of scum left. Yes, I would definitely appreciate you playing in a pro-town way, but I don't think I have as much power over you as you think. If we're in a position where you can effectively act in an anti-town fashion, then that means I've already used my kill. I suppose this prevents you from allying with the scum to prevent a lynch at all, but that would be a pretty stupid thing to do in any case.

I don't want to vig Zindaras right now because I can't be 100% sure that he's scum, and I don't want to be left with a 3 town, 3 scum, 1 neutral situation, especially given that you've already said you'd vote with the scum if it means ending the game (I should also point out here that where I refer to "four scum" in my previous posts, I actually mean three. We'd be dead if there were four scum. I'm pretty sure I was just tired and not thinking straight. Thankfully, the rest of what I said seems to make sense).

And yes, DGB should claim as soon as possible. There's really no reason at all not to. I'm expecting a claim by the end of the day at the latest. And by "expecting" I mean "ready to kill you if you don't give me".

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Results would be good. Also, I'm going to unvote for now, even though I'm not really buying the claim yet. You don't need to vote yet or anything, Gaspar. We'll figure it out once everyone has claimed.

Unvote

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DGB - the longer it takes you to claim your results, the more sceptical I'll be of them. You really have no reason not to claim them immediately.

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DGB. Results. Now.

I am so tempted to kill you right now.

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I want Silent Lee to claim next.

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Silent Lee, Setael, IH, Dragon Phoenix. That's my preferred order. Feel free to claim early if you want.

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This is really not an important discussion right now. We can decide who's scum when everybody's claimed.

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I changed my mind. Setael before Silent Lee.

Claim now, please.

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Silent Lee, you're up.

And no, I'm not worried about outing anything. Protecting power roles is not nearly as important as finding scum at this point.

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On which nights have you journeyed, Silent Lee?

Unless I missed something, both IH and DP have yet to claim. I'd like IH's first, but it might be best if both just claim as soon as possible. I'll be claiming as soon as they do.

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Well evidently the claim idea was a good one, as we seem to be flushing out scum. IH claimed a long time ago - Innocent Fresnoite with no name. DP, your turn.

Oh, right, I completely forgot about that. So it's just DP, then.

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As I said before, I am Number 34. I am a two-shot roleblocker (I lock people in my cell). N2, I blocked Silent Lee (or rather, Dani blocked MBL). N4, I blocked Zindaras/DGB. So yeah, I've known since she claimed her role that she's a liar - I specifically avoided saying anything because obviously I didn't want to give anything away to Silent Lee. I wasn't even going to claim until he revealed his actions, but it appears that I'm not going to get the answer that I need from the mod, so whatever.

I find it odd that Silent Lee and DP have such similar claims. I'd lean towards believing DP, but that's not really based on anything substantial, except maybe that the limited-uses ability reminds me of mine. Then again, Dantès was a completely different kind of role, so maybe I'm just imagining things.

The lack of gift-giver claim is troubling. Unless this is some odd mechanic that isn't initiated by a character (which I doubt right now), that indicates that it's either a scum role or a member of the town is lying. Based on the message I received, it would seem strange if it were a scum role. Anyway, if the gift-giver is going to hide, I suppose there's no real way to make him reveal himself. Hopefully he'll claim if he's about to be lynched, though.

The gift-giver basically said he believed I was pro-town, explained his role to me, and mentioned that nobody had yet accepted his offer. I'm not sure how much I'm actually allowed to say (sometimes one is allowed to fully quote people who send messages, after all).

I fully plan to kill DGB at this point, and I'm pretty much 100% sure that she's scum. However, I'd still rather stick to my original plan of killing and hammering in the same post. However, if people are opposed to this for some reason, I'll just kill DGB now.

I'm not really sure who I think the scum are at this point. Several people look scummy. I'm not a fan of Setael's last post, but I've thought for the last day or so that Talitha is scummy. I believe Gaspar, though.

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I have to hand it to you, DGB - you never give up.

And Setael, I'm practically confirmed already. If I were scum, I could have just used my kill to get rid of a townie, then allied myself with Gaspar to quicklynch another for the win. Then again, I suppose that would be risky (and not true if you're assuming that Gaspar is scum).

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Yeah, this is going to get annoying.

Daykill: DrippingGoofball

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Awesomesauce.

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Why don't you think I would agree with DP's list, Setael?

I think I agree with DP's condorcet pretty much exactly, in fact, with DP himself being inserted between IH and Gaspar. Of course, that might change if Silent Lee isn't scum. In any case I'm kind of sympathetic to the whole "let's kill Silent Lee" idea.

I'm not going to hammer just yet, since we've still got about a day. If nobody has a problem with it, though, I'll do so.

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We already have one player who can only use a power a set number of times, IH. DP's claim seems more plausible.

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I am a two-shot roleblocker (I lock people in my cell).

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Eh, whatever.

Vote: Silent Lee

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Bah. I knew it was too much to hope for an actual win. Still, I feel rather satisfied with my own play, even if I did help get the SK lynched for a totally irrelevant reason.

I feel really stupid now for believing Gaspar's claim. I suppose I just made the classic blunder of thinking that the ability (to kill "Mr. Grey", in this case) proved alignment. I did think about the possibility that it was part of a scum role, but to be honest, I probably would have lynched Talitha or even DP over Gaspar in endgame.

I would like to point out, by the way, that I was totally right when I called out Zindaras and Gaspar as scumbuddies. This is just further proof that Sarc's gut is always right.

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Were there any "Dante's Inferno" references outside of the title?

Oh man, I just got that.