Fritz's Fav Fictional Figures Faction Fest - Game over

[ibaesha]

Vote: Macros

[ibaesha]

unvote, vote: JordanA24

I thought his method was odd. What do you mean who am I? I'm trying to look for scummy behaviour.

More like trying to build a case on scumtell that isn't one at all, which is scummier.

[ibaesha]

Perhaps it's that he sees the usual day 1 wagon, with the usual day 1 bandwagonners. The thing is, this is not a random start of day 1 wagon, there's actually a reason or two behind it.

[ibaesha]

Scroll up?

[ibaesha]

Cuz you applied a rule to YL but not Glork/UA. Hint: Those two actually voted themselves.

Also, though MoS didn't vote himself, he used the exact same method as YL. I'm positive he counted himself in his roll for a random vote because he always does. In fact, he voted for Jordan in that random vote, but Jordan avoided drawing attention to that vote.

[ibaesha]

Actually, Jordan quoted it and made a joke out of it. Why is it scummy for YL, but not MoS? Hmm?

[ibaesha]

The post in question.

MoS used the same method as YL. MoS voted Jordan. YL didn't vote anyone because he included dead people, but mentioned that if it'd landed on himself he would've self-voted. PJ's point is that two other people DID self-vote, but Jordan didn't make mention of that. My point is that Jordan seems to be conjuring up a false scumtell to make a case against YL, but he's not applying it to MoS who also included himself in his roll for a random vote. Instead, he made a joke out of MoS's vote, which tells me he didn't want to draw too much attention to it.

Anywho, it's all good enough for the start of a day 1 wagon in my book. And in fact better than most. And perhaps fast day 1 wagons make you uncomfortable, but they're fairly normal, especially in large games.

[ibaesha]

Okay for some reason the link isn't working and I can't get it to. But just go back and read Jordan's first post.

[ibaesha]

Vote: Flameaxe

Pretty much for the wagonning yesterday and today.

FYI, I don't like the Sarc-wagon.

Glorkish, I dunno about you. Just sayin'.

[ibaesha]

Yes. Primarily because I don't recall having played with him before, therefore have no meta on him. Jdodge always wagons, so I expect it. UA was a consideration, but I've seen him do some really silly stuff as town before so I am contemplating his behavior. Also, UA didn't originally jump on, but joined later. As for K-Scope, he always seems scummy to me, and does even now, but I am hesitant to vote people who I feel that way about. Overall, it was a starting point for my vote today, because there doesn't seem to be much to gleen from yesterday. Btw, I had already looked at the other wagonners and expected a question like yours. I wanted to see who would ask it before explaining my reasoning, though.

Nevertheless, I'll give Flameaxe the benefit of the doubt for now. I don't know why he would claim role-related info over one vote, though.

unvote, vote Glork

- Sneaking suspicion. Nothing concrete.

[ibaesha]

I don't have time to catch up to the last 6 pages or so that have popped up right now. Work and life are catching up to me and I'm in serious need of sleep.

[ibaesha]

Hey, CKD, do you have a crush on me or something?

What did I learn about you from you being the one to ask the question? Other than you having some weird fascination with me? Your overall behavior I find interesting. You ask for my reasoning for voting a specific bandwagonner, but yet don't bother to ask the bandwagonners why they're doing it. Out of the various topics of conversation you could've joined thus far today, you seem to return to me over something fairly minimal.

Other than your vote for K-scope, I haven't really seen anything that resembles making a committment to a suspicion whatsoever and even then you unvoted k-scope ... but I don't even know why. I also kind of get the vibe from you that you're 'acting' inquisitive, curious, and newbie-ish but that you're really a lost smarter than you're letting on. It's not enough to vote you, but IGMEOY.

Alright, now that that's done. I've read through stuff.
1. The whole Flameaxe claim argument. My initial reaction was to believe that he wouldn't come out as quickly as he did if he were scum. PJ brought up the times he's seen such a role claimed and it gave me pause, but I still am not seeing the quick claim as something scum would do. Testing him works, I suppose. But if he is town, and we lynch wrong, well .. meh.

2. The Theo voting Cephrir thing and wagon that followed. I saw exactly why that vote was placed, or why I would've voted for Cephrir had I been keeping up with the thread at the time.

People who don't have suspicions are suspicious!

3. I don't like Blight's explanation for voting Theo. I didn't see anything opportunistic about Theo voting Cephrir and Blight's explanation looks more like an excuse to vote than a reason.


Anyways...

unvote, vote: Blight

Cephrir quick-wagon bothers me and I think Blight's reaction to it is more suspicious than Cephrir's non-suspicions.

[ibaesha]

Oh I forgot. Glork, when being a dumbass calling someone else a dumbass in giant boldness, spell dumbass right, eh?

Otherwise I don't know what a dubmass is, and if it's a thing, I need a definition.

[ibaesha]

I can't figure out if Sarc is scum or just being a pain in the ass. I do think he's pretty funny right now, though.

Sarc, can you explain why you keep asking for claims? Is this something new you've adopted or a playstyle transition of yours that I've missed? .. got any examples of where you've done this before?

[ibaesha]

Dear Blight,

A null tell is a tell that isn't indicative of alignment

either way

.

<3,
Ibby

[ibaesha]

Well, I didn't say it was null. He did. I was just giving you the definition of null.

As far as Sarc's behavior, I see it more as WIFOM-ish than anything. Either he's having fun being an overaggressive bastard as town or he's a scumbag going so over the top, people will think 'nah, he can't be scum.' Right now, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in believing it's the former.

At any rate, using 'scum tells' as the prime basis for a vote or argument is in fact scummy itself. More often than not, it is scum who latch onto 'scum tells' as reasoning for their votes.

I never said that not having suspicions is a scum tell, btw. People who don't have suspicions being suspicious is a personal belief that I happen to share with PJ (we've discussed it numerous times in the past). It's not something that most people subscribe to as a 'scum tell'.

[ibaesha]

So Blight's a lyncher of Sarc?

Can't think of any other reason why Sarc specifically would dislike Blight's claim.

YL: Sarc's being a pain in the ass. It's obvious... blatantly obvious. I don't see how anyone could believe that Sarc seriously -expected- Blight to claim. I mean, he'd have to be deluded if he thought that. Pushing for a claim at 3 votes is ridiculous. Even Sarc knows it's ridiculous, as we can see by the dripping sarcasm in his last post. Now, if you think being ridiculous is scummy, then your vote is in a good place, but the whole 'asking for a claim so early' thing is a 'scum tell' is just silliness.

[ibaesha]

^^ gives me pro-town MoS vibes. Just sayin'.

[ibaesha]

Glork, out of curiousity, what do you think of what Sarc's done here? Your last post seems kind of like throwing fuel on the fire, but not really a true accusation. I just ask this because I've known you to spend some time in games throwing about baseless accusations. Sarc seems to have taken such behavior to a much higher level, but it is still very similar.

[ibaesha]

Unvote, Vote: Sarcastro

That's enough of that.

Yeah...

I'm pondering.

[ibaesha]

Why don't you answer MoS's question, Sarc?

[ibaesha]

I'm looking at those who jumped on the BW too, but my focus is on Theo.

JDodge, if it makes you feel any better, I mentioned everybody on the BW. I didn't mention your, or anyone else's, name because it was implied. But, if it makes you feel better, yes, I'm also looking at you (JDodge), Sarc, MOS, and K-Scope.

Okay, so let's hear about those other people you were going to look at, besides Sarc. I'm quite tired of that argument and feel like it's going no where. You've never really responded to the issue of you going after Theo for his reasoning but not really following up on the BWers as you said you would.

[ibaesha]

Do you believe it is more opportunistic for someone to vote based on what you consider 'weak' reasoning, or for people to bandwagon behind a 'weakly reasoned' vote?

[ibaesha]

Blight: Right so you voted for Theo because you felt his reasoning was weak and opportunistic (I disagree btw). However, your vote on him was based on 'just a theory' and a 'bad feeling'. Huh.

[ibaesha]

Well, my point is that your reasoning for voting is weaker than the reasoning of the person you voted for. I'm all for gut feelings and all, but Theo appears to be scumhunting to me not drumming up crap reasons for a vote.

Anyways, not so sure Blight is scum. I was ready to unvote earlier, but went back and read over the posts that brought me to the decision to vote him in the first place and still felt there were questions to be answered. I'm not exactly thrilled with the hypocracy of Blight's actions, but his explanations contain some conviction in them that seems genuine to me.

unvote, vote Cephrir

When reading over Blight's posts, I also went over Cephrir's again. And I think that Theo's observation was a good one, along with the 'no suspicions' thing -and- the content or lack thereof in his posts. Also, Cephrir is now riding on Blight's coat tails and not adding much to the discussion now that the pressure turned away from him.

[ibaesha]

PJ, yeah, I've gotten those same vibes and I'm doing that whole thing with Glork where I initially think he's scum, then second-guess myself. I see things that could be town Glork and other things that could be Glorkscum. I just don't know at this point. I do have a question for Glork though.

Glork, why do you feel that Sarc is more likely an SK scumbag than another sort of scumbag?

I'm also trying to figure out wtf Sarc -is- doing. Regardless of his arguments about why what he has done being 'null' and asking 'Why would scum do this?', I wonder exactly what he has done that is pro-town behavior. I certainly don't think that the wall to wall text arguments in the last few pages have been helpful. And I think that it's possible he's derailing us from finding scum. I'm also bothered by the way he has attached himself to me and other 'experienced' players like Glork (until Glork voted for him) and PJ in his arguments. The latest thing is that he said that no one is contributing anything else, despite the fact that he's been a big part of why. Plus, I did try to help us move on, but other than Blight responding to me, things just degenerated back to the same old argument that is going no where.

FoS: Sarc

[ibaesha]

Hay, I don't need to be prodded.

[ibaesha]

think you should stop being fence-sitting, question-only scum. Give me your opinion and then ask me your questions.

I agree. In fact, I think you've put forward a better case against CKD than you have against Blight.

Tell you who I am suspicious of at this point,

short answer:

Skruffs, Kscope, yourself.

My turn to ask questions. You've explained why you're suspicious of Sarc. Why are you suspicious of the other two? Details please.

Also, for someone so obsessed with my answering your question, how come there was no response from you after I answered it? Post 371

Makes me wonder if you're avoiding bringing too much attention to the observations I made in regards to you.

After rereading (except for those awful Sarc/X arguments that I refuse to put myself through again), MoS is pretty suspicious. IH is a little scummy as well. Sarc is still the worst. Nobody else seemed particularly bad.

Also, it would be really super if the useless people could post.

How is MoS 'pretty suspicious'?
What is 'a little scummy' about IH?

Also, you have some nerve talking about useless people.

[ibaesha]

^^ Not good enough.

I was just making a quick LoS for the purpose of

appearing to contribute

.

Fixed.

[ibaesha]

For a moment there I wasn't sure who was scummier, you or CKD. Thanks for helping me make up my mind.

confirm vote: Cephrir

[ibaesha]

Who is BBB?

[ibaesha]

Meh, if I was town with that role, I'd do my best to hunt and lynch scum so that my bandwagonning would at least be useful. If you have to bandwagon, why not have people join a wagon you believe in, rather than joining wagons other people have perpetuated? You can only really trust yourself in the end.

S'pose that Flameaxe is either lazy or scum. So I think testing him is fine, but since he is possibly being lazy town (he kind of strikes me as playing as a neutral would play, actually) I'm not too inclined to lynch him.

I dunno about the PJ and Scruffs argument. I didn't really buy Scruffs' meta on MoS suspicion, but that's all I've seen about Scruffs that really bothers me. I think PJ's kinda blown the 'ignoring PJ' comment out of proportion, and that Scruffs has gone off the deep-end with his paranoid 'scum-plan of Flameaxe usage'. Atm, I'm inclined to think that they're two townies fighting. I'm not particularly swayed by either case from them.

[ibaesha]

unvote, vote CKD

[ibaesha]

Fritz - Can we get prods on: Thin_Man, xyzzy, and BrianMcQueso, please?

[ibaesha]

No, it's because you're question only scum. And I think you're playing dumber than you are, therefore fake. Fake = scum.

[ibaesha]

I answered your question. I am voting you for a reason, or two, but primarily because you're scum.

I don't buy the newbie act you tried to pull of early on. I don't like your day 1 behavior around the Jordan-wagon. It smells of disingenuine questioning of the wagon to make yourself look innocent when Jordan came up town. (Fake fake fake) I don't like your continuous questions that generally have little to do with the current issues and feel very much like filler (question only scum is a great descriptive). And finally, I dislike the lack of analysis that I know you're capable of.

I'm still not particularly thrilled with Cephrir, but I am tempted to believe he is just as worthless as he presents himself to be, and therefore possibly 'bad town' but not scum. However, you.. you are scum parading in a bad town outfit.

Your jump to actually add some content with statements rather than questions when voted isn't very convincing. Especially with the amount of wishy-washyness involved in your given opinions.

[ibaesha]

Disingenuine and Fake:

there is a pattern here , I just know it...I just need to look closely and find it...

definitely a pattern...but where, where dammit, where.

Just...need...to...look...closer.

Newbie Card:

I guess chalk it up to my inexperience then..one of my first experiences on this site, Day 1 took 45+ pages..and it was a mini game...

As for Mistress Bandwagon, try again. I've joined one bandwagon, Jordan's, and unlike other wagonners, I provided reasoning behind my vote. I was first to vote Blight, first to vote you. And when I voted Cephrir, the initial wagon on him had mostly fizzled, and with it, so did his participation. So what you're really saying is that when I vote people, they get wagonned? Damn maybe it's because my suspicions and reasoning for voting is sound and people agree. It happens. Are you afraid that a wagon will form on you now? (Even though it should, since you're scum)

[ibaesha]

Oh it's noted that you've gone back to being question only scum. It's kind of funny, really.

I really don't consider asking a ton of questions constantly as hunting scum. You're not applying real pressure anywhere, and like I said, I see it as pretty much filler. I know you're fully capable of real analysis, which you've pretty much failed to provide the entire game.

[ibaesha]

Jdodge always wagons, so I expect it.

What do you think of JDodge's defense of Sarc early today?

I didn't notice it. Point me to a post?

[ibaesha]

Okay, I see what you mean now. I had to dig back a bit further to see where it started. I pretty much discounted the nightscene in relation to Sarc because it's ... well a nightscene. This is why I didn't like the start of the day wagon on him. As far as Jdodge's defense, it could mean a couple things.

There could be some kind of connection between Jdodge and Sarc (info, w/e), but I also see a possibility that Jdodge was of the opinion that the scene wasn't truly indicative of Sarc's alignment (which is what I thought myself to be honest) and believed that MoS's line of questioning was out of line. There's nothing wrong with MoS's line of questioning if he believed the nightscene to be relevant. But I wasn't of this opinion myself. However, I don't get where Jdodge gets 'fishing' out of that at all. It doesn't look like fishing to me.

Well, Jdodge has just spoke up about it. I'm wondering from his last statement if his knowledge is more about the 'article' (which I thought was just part of the nightscene) than about Sarc.

[ibaesha]

[Fritz]
Why isn't CKD lynched yet?[/Fritz]

Since PJ is failing at Fritzism maybe I shall take it up.

[ibaesha]

Wow, CKD is awfully freaked out about one vote.

[ibaesha]

unvote, vote Cephrir

Still thinking it's likely he's 'bad town' not scum so much, but this vote will work for now.

Saw the claim, don't remember your questions CKD, but if you're referring to my 'wagonning', I think you're seriously stretching it, regardless of your role. 3rd votes aren't wagonning when it's 11 to lynch. I would think someone who only votes someone -not- being voted everytime they vote is more suspicious, really.

In all actuality, I find the OMGUSness more of a town sign than not so I'm willing to buy the claim. I still really dislike the approach you've taken in this game until pressure was put on you. Don't blame other people for outing you when your play has been highly suspicious (at least to me). I don't see anywhere where your question only style has been productive. It seemed to me like lurking in plain sight, asking questions to appear interested in things without actually -being- interested.

OMGUS is a bad habit to start when town because it blinds you to the real scumbags. Believe me, I should know. And if you seriously are a cop, you shouldn't have claimed an innocent, bad play there.

[ibaesha]

unvote, vote Cephrir

Still thinking it's likely he's 'bad town' not scum so much, but this vote will work for now.

FoS

Perhaps you'll like this more.

unvote, vote Glork

My Cephrir vote was merely a placeholder. I don't unvote without revoting. You should know this about me, Glork. And I was trying to take the time to go back and re-read to decide which of you and Sarc was more suspicious. I'm starting to think Brian was onto something earlier in the day about lynching one of you two. This vote is has a hint of gut in it that has stuck with me since the beginning of the day, but I don't like a couple of things. First, the way you tried to drum up suspicion against Jdodge. It was weak, and the way you backed off shows that you weren't all that serious about it. It appears that you were pushing false suspicion that didn't pan out. Second, the way you off-handedly mentioned just following me on CKD. Also, there was the way you painted Sarc as a possible SK. I think this is more likely if you think he's scum, but know he's not in your scumgroup.

[ibaesha]

There's a wagon on Glork? Fucking get off your bandwagon bullshit. As far as I know there's ONE vote on Glork besides mine. Just because I vote someone who has votes on them DOESNT MAKE IT BANDWAGONNING. GET A GOD DAMN CLUE. When I jump on repeatedly at -2 or -3 to lynch then you can say I'm bandwagonning, otherwise stfu.

If you have other reasons to find me suspicious that aren't OMGUS and aren't falsely accusing me of bandwagonning, bring it.

[ibaesha]

CKD: No, and apparently you have a rather wrong definition of bandwagonning if you think that. I've been voting my suspicions. A 3rd vote is -not- bandwagonning in a game where it's 11 to lynch. And also, even if I WERE bandwagonning, how the hell do you expect to reach a lynch unless people join wagons. Really, I thought you were smarter than you were appearing, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe you really are just a newb who can't play any better than you have.

Neways, if you want to accuse me of starting wagons, then you might be more accurate. Of course, then you can try to explain how my starting wagons is suspicious.

Elmo: About MoS - I don't recall exactly, but I'd call it gut.
About my Cephrir revote: I'm not at all certain about his alignment, and I -do- find him suspicious, but I'm thinking there's a decent chance that he's bad town and not scum. Along with it being a placeholder vote, the game is dragging. Since Cephrir is either 'bad town' or 'scum' I felt that a placeholder vote on him would be fine, because tbh I'm not all that opposed to a policy lynch. Someone who is acting anti-town deserves to be lynched, period.

CKD: Back up this pattern if you think there is one. Also, do you think it's possible that this so-called 'pattern' may be attributed to consistency in play on my part? Nevertheless, I completely refute any accusations of me bandwagonning because they are blatantly wrong. I bought your claim, but your push on me for such bullshit reasoning makes me wonder if you're just a lying scumbag.

[ibaesha]

Also, CKD. You half-ass claimed flavor, but not your rolename. So what is it? Since you've already claimed, there's no reason not to claim completely.

[ibaesha]

I fully plan on responding to CKD's case against me, and Glork's response to my vote, but I haven't had the time yet. It will be a lengthy post more than likely and I'm lacking in sleep so I'd like to be coherent when I make it.

Anyways, I can't believe I'm agreeing with 'Scope. But I am.

[ibaesha]

I've been ill and busy over the last couple weeks. I'm catching up now.

[ibaesha]

Jumping on a bandwagon is not just about votes…the pattern is this, once anyone comes under the limelight (with FoSes or questions) slightly, Ibby is one of first votes there with little reason. She did it with Jordan (hung a townie), when Glork first came under attack she voted without a reason, when blight started to get heat (people FoSing him calling him scummy) she voted for him, when Ceph came under attack (boom another vote from ibby)..then when Sarc started riding my ass, she voted me…after I had to claim, she went back to Ceph..now, Glork is under the light, her vote is back there. Every sizeable wagon we have had (except Sarc’s) she has been on.

Let's see.
My Jordan vote: Start of day 1 bandwagon in a large theme with any reason is good enough to vote. I may have even jumped on had there not been a reason. That's generally how day 1s start in large themes. However, I did feel there was a compelling enough reason to vote Jordan besides. I explained myself, in fact, I did so far better than the other 12 voters that were on the wagon with the exception of maybe PJ. Interesting how you are coloring it as if I hung a townie on my own.

You missed my Flameaxe vote, you know, the one you questioned me about at the start of the day? Flameaxe was under absolutely no scrutiny whatsoever, my vote was the first on him.

My Glork vote: When Flameaxe claimed in response to my vote, I didn't see a reason to continue voting him at that point. So, I changed my vote. Since other than the wagonners on Jordan there wasn't much to go on, I went with a gut feeling about Glork and voted him. I've played plenty of games with Glork and my gut usually is the best I have to go on. I have been wrong about him in the past, but when I look back on it, I'm only wrong about him when he's scum and I think he's town. Generally if I get a gut feeling Glork is scum, he is, and I allow myself to be swayed to other thinking because either A) He somehow convinces me he's not scum or B) I don't have anything concrete to make a case from. At any rate, a gut feeling about Glork was reason enough for me to vote for him at that point. He had 2 votes at the time (which I didn't really pay attention to) and I don't consider that a lot of pressure at all. Nor was he under any type of deep scrutiny.

My Blight vote: I returned after being away for a while and caught up on the pages that I missed. Blight stuck out for me because of the way he reacted to Theo - who I felt had decent reasoning for his Cephrir vote. I thought that the 'opportunistic' accusation was off and that it was odd that Blight picked Theo to vote for rather than the bandwagonners who followed him without reason. Sure, some people had questioned him and expressed issue, but does that mean that I should ignore what I see when I read the thread? No one had voted for him. I did. I put my vote where my mouth is. I don't just talk and persue without being willing to go on record with a vote.

My Cephrir vote: You've blatantly misrepresented what I did there. Cephrir was under attack and had a serious wagon on him when I voted Blight. That wagon seemed to fizzle off and with it so had Cephrir's activity. As soon as he wasn't in the spotlight, he went under the radar. After the Sarc and Blight argument, I didn't like my Blight vote, and believed that it was possible that my issue with him was more of a difference in thought/play (Re: Theo) than him being scum. Therefore, I wasn't sure of my Blight vote anymore, and moved to Cephrir who was and is suspicious.

My vote on you: Did you fail to read the post where I addressed your questions towards me? This was long before Sarc started 'riding your ass'. I mentioned suspicion of you then and at that point was the very -first- person to put you under any type of scrutiny. Whether or not you like my reasons doesn't matter. Attempting to paint me as piggybacking off of Sarc's 'riding your ass' is another misrepresentation of what I did.

Here's the quote for you:

Other than your vote for K-scope, I haven't really seen anything that resembles making a committment to a suspicion whatsoever and even then you unvoted k-scope ... but I don't even know why. I also kind of get the vibe from you that you're 'acting' inquisitive, curious, and newbie-ish but that you're really a lost smarter than you're letting on. It's not enough to vote you, but IGMEOY.

That never changed. I kept my eye on you while pressuring/voting other people because I was unsure about you. When you continued with the same question-only behavior and seemed to be lacking any of the analyzation I know you're capable of (Yes, I've read your play in other games so I know you are) I decided it was time to follow up with my suspicion of you. Again, this is a 1st vote on someone, and I don't give a damn if anyone else was riding your ass or expressing suspicion. I put my vote where my mouth is.

Back to Cephrir: Basically you claimed cop. I don't lynch claimed cops on day 2 and your OMGUS with me seemed very much like pissed off town than scum so I bought your claim. Therefore, I went back to my previous vote (even though I think Cephrir might just be bad town - which I'll get to later) because I don't unvote someone without voting someone else -ever- unless it's some type of endgame situation. I wanted to go back and look more heavily at Glork and Sarc because I'm suspicious of both, but didn't have the time right then. Cephrir's wagon wasn't going anywhere, I had already voted him before, so revoting him has absolutely nothing to do with him being pressured and me jumping on. You trying to say that it is anything of the sort is just flat out silly.

Revoting Glork: Mix a little OMGUS with the fact that my gut says he's scum (and I've already explained how I feel about the gut thing) and that Glork's play has bothered me. The Jdodge questioning, the Sarc SK theory. Glork had one vote on him by Kscope - someone who's voting/opinion means pretty much nothing to me. The fact that I agree with him - even though I don't know his reasoning beyond 'gut' is actually kind of annoying. So trying to represent this as me jumping on someone who is under scrutiny/pressure is, again, just silly.

Anyways, besides only voting for people who haven't been voted and no one has noticed (a lurker perhaps?) I'm not sure what you expect from me. There is no possible way for me to play mafia and vote that way. In fact, if I did, that'd be pretty damn strange don't you think? We're here to lynch people and find scum and we can't do that without wagons. I'm sure as hell not on the back end of wagons, and I'll take responsibility for pressuring people and voting them and even perpetuating wagons that go forward but that's how I hunt scum. If you think I'm scum for it, then so be it, you're wrong, and I think you're being awfully tunnel-visioned and rivaling me for OMGUSness. If you put as much effort into hunting scum and analyzing people before I voted you as you have at analyzing me afterwards, perhaps I wouldn't have voted you in the first place. Just sayin'.

I'll get to a response to Glork in my next post, although it may not be until tomorrow. Chew on this one for now.

[ibaesha]

I had forgotten about that. But alas, I wasn't in that game. Also, you were attempting to kill town tells on you in that game.

[ibaesha]

Putting a placeholder on somebody you think is protwn is moronic if you're protown.

I have said repeatedly that I think it's likely that Cephrir could be just bad town. At the same time I've said that I think he's suspicious and that his behavior is anti-town. The fact is, there's no assurity either way. Therefore, I don't have a strong belief that he's pro-town, nor could I since there's NO PROOF anywhere that says he is. Determining the difference between bad town and scum when it comes to a player like Cephrir is infinately difficult and I hate having to deal with it. Therefore, a placeholder vote on someone who could just as easily be scum, is not moronic. We either get rid of someone who is scum or we get rid of someone who has the contributive value of shit. I don't think it's bad town play.

I also believe that if towns took more pro-active measures towards people who are non-contributive, anti-town, scummy looking lurkers who only pop up and post under pressure or to persue their own agenda (whatever that may be) we wouldn't have day after day in game after game ending in deadline enforced lynches. I'm damn tired of letting people off the hook for crappy, anti-town play just because they might be 'bad town' even if I am willing to admit that possibility myself. I think if people on MS stopped 'talking about policy lynching' and did more of it, the quality of our games would go up. So hell, I see absolutely -nothing- wrong with putting a placeholder vote on one of these individuals because truth be told, I think they should be policy lynched anyways.

You could just as easily have put it on me or Sarc back then with the stipulation that you were considering moving it to the other. Why didn't you choose to do that?

1. Then, and now, I don't know what to think of Sarc. I've given my opinion on his play more than once, and I think there are things he's done that are suspicious, but I'm not sure if it equates to scum.

2. When it comes to you, I don't lay down a serious vote (something beyond gut), unless there's some meat to it. I know how good you are at this game. I know how good you are at wiggling your way out of things. I also know how good you are at explaining away whatever things you've done. Hell, you already did it once with PJ today, and your reaction to my vote is pretty much what I would've expected and why I didn't want to just slap it down without having some type of relatively good case. As it is, my case against you is still weak, but it's all I have.

It's obvious that I've not been a fan of your play so far...

Oh, really? I had no idea until you FoSed me that you had a problem with my play at all. How obvious is it because I couldn't tell? Did other people think it was obvious that you weren't a fan? I think you're pulling this line out of your ass. And if you were so unhappy with my play, why the comment about voting CKD that you made? Why did you agree with me and vote Blight only after I voted him even though you'd expressed suspicion of him before? Sorry to say, but not being a fan of my play, why would you be willing to follow my voting or express interest in doing so?

Most of that conversation was between myself and JDodge, because I was trying to figure out what was going on (which is more or less the exact opposite of trying to wagon him to death). If I were trying to drive a wagon, do you think I would have dropped it after a couple of minutes of Q&A?

Didn't say you were trying to drive a wagon, and the thing is, if you were driving wagons today rather than randomly drumming up suspicion (which is how I felt about your actions towards Jdodge), I would be less suspicious of you.

Also, your statement that I 'pushed' Sarc as a possible SK is blown entirely out of proportion.

I never said pushed. I love how you not only say that word once, but twice, then capitalize it the second time. Let's get into the semantics here. I said PAINTED, not pushed. There's a difference between the two words and you did paint him as a possible SK. I never said you 'pushed' that angle. You dropped the possibility about Sarc being SK, and didn't mention it again until I questioned you about why you thought it. I questioned you because I thought it was a weird thing to say at the time and I still do. No, no, Glork, you're right, you never 'pushed' it. But you did plant the seed.

[ibaesha]

Right so, I've been a slacker and now we have a deadline. Funny how when I am unable to attend to the game, it kind of falls off into oblivion and not much gets done. All of CKD's suspicion of me, and yet if I'm not here to 'bandwagon' as he puts it, you all accomplish pretty much -nothing-.

So now that we're at deadline the choices put forward are Sarc, Iammars (formerly Blight), and guess who? CEPHRIR. Cephrir who hasn't posted since Nov 9th. Even with my absence from MS, I've been more contributive than this guy. And here I was bitched out for putting a placeholder vote on him. Give me a fucking break.

Anyways, I do like my Glork vote, but I'm willing to move to the vote leader when we get closer to deadline if it's required to accomplish a lynch. Out of the three, I find Iammars the least suspicious and Cephrir the most suspicious with Sarc coming in the middle with a 'I don't fucking know'.

[ibaesha]

unvote, vote Cephrir

Glork and CKD, I disagree with you both about Cephrir. The guy was suspicious, and I truly am curious why Glork is -so- convinced he's town. First, he does the 'no suspicions' thing, then he throws out random names, but refused to back up why he was suspicious of those people when asked. Then as soon as the pressure was off, he lurked, except to come and throw a vote on Sarc when Sarc came under pressure (and Sarc is an easy person to dislike in this game). When under pressure again, Cephrir claimed... but what did he claim? Vanilla. Then the pressure came off again, and back to lurking he went. It's not like the guy has disappeared from MS, as he's been posting elsewhere. This guy should've been lynched a month ago, and now we're going to ask for him to be replaced instead? It's one thing to replace people who have disappeared and are only under pressure because of lurking (and haven't claimed), but that's not the case here.

As far as Glork's claim, it's convenient that he's unable to be confirmed today, but I can think of at least one reason beyond what CKD listed for why that might be. Still not sure why Glork claimed, he wasn't leading the vote count, so either he can't count or ... that was a jumpy claim.

[ibaesha]

Eh, CKD, if Glork is lying, picking two dead people would be pretty obv. There's things that can explain away why his action didn't go through with someone living, so that kind of gambit claim is more believable. As it is, Glork still has powers left if he's being truthful, so he can still be tested. I don't trust him, but I'm willing to leave it for tomorrow.

[ibaesha]

I've had computer problems that have kept me away. I'm back now and catching up with my games. I've skimmed the thread a bit but need to read more thoroughly. Give me a day or two to catch up.

[ibaesha]

LOL. Well, Pooks. I'm inclined to simply follow you onto Glork since I already think he's a scumbag, but I'd like to read the thread.

[ibaesha]

Read enough. I don't see me changing my mind.

vote: Glork

In addition, I will confirm that CKD should have had 2 investigations last night.

[ibaesha]

I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to figure that out. There's only really one way I'd be able to

confirm

that.