Fritz's Fav Fictional Figures Faction Fest - Game over

[Elmo]

Readin' & finkin'. Maybe post tomorrow.

[Elmo]

Man. By now I'm flinching every time I see Sarc's avatar.

Valiantly ploughing through. Anything in particular that people want from me when I'm done?

[Elmo]

Yeah aright, caught up. I'll go over it again and post tomorra'.

[Elmo]

CKD vote is kinda tempting. Cephrir wagon less so. I'm not quite sure why, but I haven't liked Skruffs pretty much all the way through, so

vote

:

Skruffs

for the moment.

I'm also going to echo Glork from a few pages ago in saying I'm not liking MoS massively from reading through. ibaesha, you still getting town vibes from him?

I've drawn up a vote count, mostly for my benefit, but here it is:

Code: Select all

    Cephrir [6] <- Pookie, Mastermind of Sin, Flameaxe, UltimaAvalon, Sarcastro, YagamiLight
  Sarcastro [4] <- Blight, Cephrir, Glork, KaleiÐoscøpe
         Blight <- CrashTextDummie
        Skruffs <- IH, petroleumjelly
curiouskarmadog <- ibaesha, RogueBen, JDodge
        ibaesha <- curiouskarmadog
         jdodge <- Skruffs
        Skruffs <- Elmo

Not voting: Thin_man, Xyzzy

11 to lynch.

Cephrir is the leading vote and Glork said (821) he's almost certainly town. So, uh, let's talk about that? I gotta reread, but I can't remember anything overwhelmingly scummy about him. I think he was up to 9 at one point, too.

CKD: Putting the 3rd vote on with 11 to lynch is hardly remarkable. OMGUS is not clever. I'll read through it again, but you're not winning the argument at the moment.

I agree with IH on not liking that from RogueBen. Where's he been all game, anyway?

What percentage of people are actually still here?

[Elmo]

p.s. The nightkills are exercising my grey cells a bit. Has no-one got much interesting to say?

[Elmo]

(about them)

[Elmo]

JDodge: Why should we 'test' Flameaxe today?

[Elmo]

ben: Far as I'm concerned, I understand real life happens. Exams > this, for sure.

Interesting, Ibby thinks you're scum and suddenly she's at the "top of your list"

'less I'm mistaken, this ain't right.

The biggest question I'm wondering is... why was Tar killed? I mean, I don't think Tar was scummy enough for a vig kill. I'd assume scum would have a better kill, so why was Tar killed?

I can't remember anyone getting into this, and I'd like to know if anyone has any bright ideas. Because this is bugging me, for some reason.

[Elmo]

I don't think Flameaxe's claim is enough of a reason to think he's scum, personally. Have you got more of a case that I've missed, JD?

I also don't understand why Flameaxe claiming somehow lets him hide under a rock thereafter. Can I has moar Flameaxe post?

I'm going to suggest the shocking notion that if we collectively think he's scummy, we test him, and if not, we organise it to let him be on the lynching wagon. So: why is he scum?

Notice how everyone that's voting CKD is leaning scum. OMGUS much.

In all actuality, I find the OMGUSness more of a town sign than not so I'm willing to buy the claim.

I don't think it's that much of a pro-town sign, but it certainly makes it at least null. I don't think it's a good idea, but it's not scummy.

[Elmo]

Fair enough.

I don't think he's lying about his role name. Why would anyone fakeclaim a psycho robot? If he's lying, he obviously thinks a kotor claim is believable, so why not claim another character from the game? It doesn't seem hard to figure out a viable fakeclaim in any case. HK47 sounds fritzy, but I'm still less than convinced about his actual role. Apart from Trudy Wiegel, it seems none of the characters names reflected their role.

Fun fact: People were saying Flameaxe might be a SK because "slashed up" might be consistent with the role name (I'm not convinced), but the other two NK groups are not. Question: why would he kill creampuffeater on night 2 as an SK? (Why would anyone kill cpe, similar to the tal question?)

[Elmo]

ARe you using that as part of your defense of flameaxe?

I'm not defending him per se - I just don't see any good reason to believe he's scum at present, and I'm trying to find out if there is any real case to answer that I've missed. The question is just something I don't understand - he

might

have killed cpe, but it's an odd choice. I wondered if anyone who alleges he's an SK would have an explanation.

CKD, you never claimed flavor. Do so./quote]Seconded.

[Elmo]

I also thought that was odd. I am much less sure of either of you two (Glork/ibaesha) than everyone else seems to be.

[Elmo]

Ibaesha: That looks remarkably like it was motivated by OMGUS. Having said that, I am interested, and I'll go back and reread those points. Can you also possibly recall and articulate what gave you town vibes about MoS in 434? I'm not sure he's got enough scrutiny throughout the game.

Since Glork was the first to mention it: What looked odd to me is the fact you were changing your vote to someone you admitted was probably town. I try never to do this on principle. I didn't say anything because you might have some reason for doing it, but I can't think of any, and I would be interested to know why, now.

Second, the way you off-handedly mentioned just following me on CKD.

I also thought that was odd. I know this game has dragged a bit, but that sounded rather un-Glorklike. Although I hardly know him well. Can anyone else comment usefully?

Glork: Now might be a good time to make the case as to why Cephrir is 'almost certainly pro-town'.
CKD: A bandwagon of two(?) votes? Really? Do you want her banned from voting for anyone who already has a vote, or something?
Flameaxe: This is a good opportunity to talk about something other than your claim. What do you think?
KScope: I imagine you won't give any reasoning, but understanding the Glork vote would be nice.

Not really sure what I'm doing about Skruffs, at the moment. I should probably reread him and Cephrir. Hmm.

I could quite easily see either of you, or both, as scum right now. This game has been fairly odd, but at least it seems to be waking up again, now. Let's get talking before the deadline comes.

[Elmo]

so you have not been bandwagoning this game?

At present, this argument is horrific. Make it be not awful or drop it, please.

[Elmo]

I had read and have now reread post 911. I am not still clear precisely what you are accusing her of. She was the 5th vote on Jordan, the 3rd vote on Glork, the first on Blight, the 3rd on Ceph, and now the second on Glork.

I do not understand what you mean by bandwagoning. There are two meanings I can think of.

A scum want a townie lynch, any townie lynch. So if someone hops from wagon to wagon, whichever appears to be most likely to get to a lynch, that is scummy. However, it's 11 to lynch, so only her Jordan vote could reasonably be urging a wagon on. The rest are highly speculative towards a lynch at best. I do not see how she can reasonably be accused of this at the present.

One can also start a bandwagon, but many townies do this, so you need to show why this is scummy. It is hard to start a bandwagon without some plausible reason, and I don't see that she's started (m)any wagons of her own. I also do not see how she can be accused of this right now.

I believe you say "bandwagons are not always about votes" - I don't understand what you mean by that. They would seem to be.

You need to spell out exactly why what she had done is scummy. Merely saying she's "bandwagoning" and then not explaining what you mean is not helping me understand your case on her.

[Elmo]

CKD: You need to post your role name, and I don't know why you haven't, yet. Your flavour is rather incomplete without it. Do you have any indication of your sanity? You run the risk of looking like you're trying to deflect attention from yourself with that comment on Sarc. I'm not happy about him, but let's do one thing at a time, please. Also, please point out what is wrong with ibaesha's 'fake/newbie card' post. Not in that you merely disagree, but in that she's unreasonable to say that.

Jumping on a bandwagon is not just about votes…the pattern is this, once anyone comes under the limelight (with FoSes or questions) slightly, Ibby is one of first votes there with little reason.

You need to go through and show why she has little reason, rather than just quoting the fact she did it. Also, townies sometimes really do vote people for little or no reason - bandwagoning is a legit tactic to get information out of people, and you need to show why what she's doing is different from that.

28 players, and only one (sanity not confirmed) cop?
Seriously?

I agree with this response. But the fact Skruffs gives this response worries me about rolefishing. I think that's enough speculation, personally.

I don't buy that we just happened to hit upon a cop when one is already dead. Finding a scum who's decided to fakeclaim cop seems a lot more likely.

Why does a dead cop make a fake claim

more

likely? I don't see a good argument for that, at the moment.

Oh, and Glork, please stop being scum.

If you're not going to talk unless you're asked a question or want to comment on something, then, uh, do so, k?

[Elmo]

Why are you voting Glork? Reasoning plz.

[Elmo]

I feel the need to say Sarc's argument stacks up. I dislike maths for this kind of thing, because we can't know how many cops are in the game, or the liklihood that a scum will claim cop (surely this varies a lot individually), but his basic argument is okay: it's more likely that a cop claim is a fakeclaim because there are more scum in the game than cops, and scum are more likely to be forced to claim than cops.

I, personally, wouldn't act on this argument, because it's extremely close to a variety of argument that is awful (there is 2 scum and 5 townies in a C9, so person x has less than a 1 in 3 chance to be scum, so we should not lynch x) but I can at least see where he's coming from, which is what I wanted.

[Elmo]

Uh. I don't want to lynch CKD. I even said I wouldn't act on that argument. I thought that was quite clear.

I haven't made up my mind if CKD is scum or not, but I don't want to lynch him yet.

[Elmo]

I should probably explain my position a bit more. I kind of agree with MoS. Sarcastro's argument is logically consistent but I still don't like it, because I'm not happy with the assumptions. For what it's worth, you can use roughly the same logic to make the following argument:

* Fact: In a C9, on average, there is one power role and two scum.
* Assumption: Scum are more likely to be forced to claim than pro-town roles.
* Therefore: even if there are two power roles and two scum, anyone claiming a power role is more likely to be scum.
* Therefore: we should lynch everyone claiming a power role.

The problem is not that the logic is wrong. The problem is that there are much better ways of deciding who to lynch. You can even make the following (logically correct) argument:

* Assumption: Scum are more likely to be forced to claim.
* Therefore: we should lynch anyone who is forced to claim.

This, also, is logically consistent. But obviously, I wouldn't advocate it. All I wanted to know was Sarc's reasoning. I think it makes sense

to him

, which is what I was concerned about, but I wouldn't follow through on it if you paid me, personally.

It's also a tad suspect because it's not being applied to many cases, only one case, where the claimed cop is a newbie. Newbies sometimes act scummy, and this is something that isn't accounted for in the fact CKD has been run up. We don't know the actual odds of scum fakeclaiming cop. We don't know the numbers of scum or cops, and so on.

[Elmo]

Am I voting Skruffs? Yea? All's as it should be, then.

[Elmo]

Hm. Dinnae like the Sarc vote at all, but rereading, I see what Skruffs means about Iammars.

...and I think that most of the town would too.

Have I previously mentioned that I have a deep-seated hatred of any sentence with this ending? My Skruffs vote is boring me and I can't be bothered to trawl back to find out why it's there.

Illogical

unvote

:

Skruffs

and

vote

:

Iammars

ftw.

[Elmo]

Making vote count. Iammars's vote count in 1047 appears incorrect, in that petroleumjelly was voting Skruffs from 732, CrashTextDummie was voting Blight/Iammars from 664, rougeben unvoted in 984, and IH was voting Skruffs from 708.

Code: Select all

    Cephrir [4] <- Flameaxe, UltimaAvalon, Sarcastro, Yagami
  Sarcastro [4] <- Iammars, Cephrir, Glork, Mastermind of Sin
    Iammars [3] <- CrashTextDummie, Skruffs, Elmo
      Glork [2] <- KaleiÐoscøpe, ibaesha
    Skruffs [2] <- IH, petroleumjelly
curiouskarmadog <- Pookie
         Yagami <- JDodge
        ibaesha <- curiouskarmadog

Not voting: Thin_man, Xyzzy, RogueBen. 21 alive, 11 to lynch.

[Elmo]

If it wasn't clear, Iammars replaced Blight, who was voting for Sarc since 394. Iammars has revoted Sarc twice without voting anyone else in-between, so I didn't move it. Sorry for any confusion.

Obviously point out any problems you see.

[Elmo]

So apparently, not only can I not do vote counts for games I'm playing in, I can't read either...

Eh, it's helpful even to have an incorrect vote count, because we've got twice the confidence in the bits we agree on (most of it)

[Elmo]

[05] If I impose a day deadline, lynching will require at least half of the regular majority at deadline. In case of a tie, first come first served. In the endgame (six players or fewer) only lynches with a regular majority will occur.

With 21 alive, the regular majority is currently 11. Half of 11 is 5.5, so (as I understand it) we need 6 for a lynch at deadline. Currently, it's no lynch, and the deadline is sometime tomorrow.

Ceph & Iammars on 4, Sarc & Glork on 3, Skruffs on 2. In the interests of Just Lynching Someone, I would vote for any of Iammars, Cephrir, or Sarcastro; I don't particularly want to lynch Glork at this point, mostly 'cos my brain's switched off right now and he hasn't claimed vanilla.

[Elmo]

Code: Select all

    Cephrir [4] <- Flameaxe, UltimaAvalon, Sarcastro, Yagami
    Iammars [4] <- CrashTextDummie, Skruffs, Elmo, PookyTheMagicalBear
  Sarcastro [3] <- Iammars, Cephrir, Glork
      Glork [3] <- KaleiÐoscøpe, ibaesha, Mastermind of Sin
    Skruffs [2] <- IH, petroleumjelly
         Yagami <- JDodge
        ibaesha <- curiouskarmadog

Not voting: Thin_man, Xyzzy, RogueBen. 21 alive, 11 to lynch.

[Elmo]

Also, Cephrir is almost certainly town.

???

[Elmo]

Hm. This game is a tad confusing.

Why didn't MoS get anything yesterday? I can't think of a good reason for Glork being roleblocked. I suppose there are other things, but they sound unlikely.
Why do we not know Iammars's role? I believe I've heard of a mafia janitor role, but I don't think I've ever seen one. His alignment is revealed, unlike a janitor'd kill; I can't actually see why anyone would do that, right now. (Assume he was a mafia kill: they have a dead role name finder; it seems a bit silly to give them

both

a role name finder and a rolecop proper; therefore, they also do not know his role. Which is weird.)
Why was Sarcastro killed this morning instead of last night? (Do we want this question answered?)
What does that note mean? Why is

my

name on it?
Why, precisely, would any pro-town role have the ability to confer investigation immunity for a night?

CKD: I assume that you investigated Glork and the action failed. Given this much is obvious, might it be a good idea to state precisely how it failed? (Modulo any rules about directly quoting the mod, obviously.)

I think, at the moment, CKD hasn't shown why revealing such information is a good idea. I would be extremely cautious to draw conclusions from it, regardless.
I don't think Glork's claim is provable true or false at the moment, unless some new information turns up. In that vein, I would be most interested in what IH has to say today. Beyond that, I don't see the subject going anywhere useful today, although I'd be happy to be proved incorrect.

Glork: Why did you give choose CPE to give an investigation to? Why MoS?

[Elmo]

UA, I don't follow. At all.

[Elmo]

Okay, listen, CKD. I believe you now, because I now know that you tried to investigate me. I get that.

I read that as meaning that your passive ability, given to you for one night by some other role, was that his investigation would fail on you. (Perhaps it is more than that, I don't know.) I suppose immunity may be the wrong word, but I can't think of one that isn't unwieldy. Perhaps Characteristic Lasting One Night That Makes Investigations Fail On Affected Person (CLONTMIFOAP)?

Hmm. Actually, how much are you comfortable saying about the passive ability at this point? (Comments earlier notwithstanding)

Also, there was no "slashed up" kill last night. Interesting. I wonder if Sarcastro/Death caused the "inexplicably died" set of kills? That would kind of make sense.

[Elmo]

Hm, intéressant. That's fairly strong evidence that CKD is on the level, right?

What do you think the deal is with Iammars' role being obscured? That is really amazingly odd, to me. I'm going on the basis that it's caused by a night action, but I can't think of a motive for literally anyone to do that.

[Elmo]

PJ: I thought Iammars' role might be obscured as a part of his role, but I can't see the point. It rather makes more sense than a night action, though (which is to say marginally makes sense).

Glork being some kind of ascetic scum crossed my mind. If you look at the killing groups, MoS was very probably killed by the mafia. I don't know what that means; I find it hard to see a mafia member with that kind of night action immunity. I don't think Glork killed MoS, but I wouldn't say much more than that. It is quite coincidental, though.

If he can't turn it off, subsequent night actions targeting him would fail similarly, which would make it kinda obvious. If he can, then a successful cop investigation would clear it up, although I'm not entirely sure how that works. He's also doomed in endgame if he's lying, because no-one will claim "invisiblity giver person". That is a little too neat, though. I really dislike the whole thing, at the moment. Bleah.

I

do

find it very interesting that there wasn't a "slashed up" kill last night, and Glork had night action immunity last night. Funnily enough, I thought GlorkSK a while ago, reading the middle of day 2. I don't know why. I tossed it away. I don't remember why.

*shrug*

[Elmo]

Elmo, the way you talk about Iammar's role obscurity is odd; scum has much motive to do something like that, and by saying, "I can't see why anyone would do that," it almost sounds like, "I don't know why someone else would do that." I know that's basically strawmanning you, but it's the impression I get and it's worth noting.

Shoot me some reasons? Bearing in mind that whichever scum did it (hypothetically) does

not

know Iammars' role either.

[Elmo]

You can hear from me. I'm really bloody confused, at this point.

[Elmo]

Um. Let's start small. Why didn't MoS get his ability?

I realise this is pushing plausibility, but mafia cops exist? Hm, there's a thought, we've got a dead mafia role name finder.

o o

[Elmo]

At what point do people realise that Glork's claim is not decidable at this point? I lean towards it being fake, but seriously doubt we're going to establish anything strong enough for a lynch. If you want, I can reel off some kinda reasoning about what I think, but I really don't care that much.

*shrug*

What would be most hilarious is if Glork is a SK and CKD is a mafia member fakeclaiming cop. I would crack up laughing at that.

Meh. For the benefit of people caring, the important question is not why IH didn't get the role. The important question is why didn't MoS get the role, because Glork had no reason to get roleblocked/whatever that night. There's like, another long list of questions, but, uh, yeah, boring.

IH: What is a 0% role? A role that has a 0% change of working, i.e. never does anything?

[Elmo]

Glork said CPE was random. There's no way for CPE to work backwards and figure out Glork gave him whatever. (Choosing an externally predictable N0 action is quite sloppy, imo, although I suppose your mileage may vary.)

I imagine you already get this, but for anyone else: MoS is more important because Glork had claimed when IH was supposed to get the thing. If the scum have some ability x to stop Glork's ability working, then they would quite probably use it again once he'd claimed. The problem is in him getting blocked for no reason, which is

really

convenient if he's faking it.

You are somewhat forgetting the possibility that Glork was redirected to an anti-town person who chooses not to volunteer the information. So redirecting might have caused it. Nonetheless, that's also extremely improbable. I can't offhand think of anything other than roleblocking or redirection.

I should probably reiterate what Skruffs said about this claim being very good from a rolefishing point of view. That is in contrast to the idea of GlorkSK, because there's no point in a SK "going out with a bang" to help his mates. Meh.

So, yeah, PJ is good. The problem I have is that you can't show Glork's lying to my satisfaction without basically having a mass claim - you'd have to show the non-existence of any power role which could cause it. *shrug* Maybe I'll change my mind and lynch Glork, but in general I detest acting on these kind of arguments. Albeit I still think he's lying.

[Elmo]

'tis not a matter of conclusive evidence. It's that the argument rests on the

lack

of some role, out there, somewhere, which may or may not do weird shit we don't know about. I am notably skittish around these arguments for the simple reason that

I don't know

. Having said that, yeah,

vote

:

Glork

because it's very probably fake and I dislike the mass WIFOM from his direction.

You know what? I think Glork's being quite evil. I'm not sure if I should say what I think here or not, PJ. >.>

[Elmo]

N2, CPE informs group that he got an ability;

something happens to the gift intended for MoS

Okay. What?

PJ: If there is some invisibility-giver-person who targeted Glork last night, do you think they should be claiming if it looks like he's getting lynched?

How solid is the assumption that there are no other roles that can cause this effect other than roleblockers and redirectors? I imagine there are quite a few exotic roles that I haven't encountered yet.

[Elmo]

^ the above post; therefore if it's a fake claim, it's working; therefore, it's a good fake claim

why is there this cup of wine

that is in front of me

[Elmo]

As far as I know, the choices need not be equal for it to be WIFOM, but let's dispense with the term, eh.

IH: I didn't say you shouldn't "leave out" the meta. I am simply saying that it's a well-known meta, and drawing the conclusion that Glork is not fake claiming because he would be making a better claim if it was fake is unsound. If it is fake, it is a good fake claim by definition of the fact that

you are seriously considering that it might be true

at this point.

Glork: That presupposes that all options are available. I doubt that you believed you were going to have to claim at that point, so there may not have been time to make an "elaborate and fitting claim". It may be that you always keep brilliant fakeclaims pre-prepared for all your games, but unless that's somehow shown, I'm not willing to buy into that.

Option 1 depends heavily on precisely what is 'verifiable' and what verifiable means in this context. If it's a fake claim, then anything verifiable is either not indicative of alignment or isn't actually verifiable. I also see little point claiming something that doesn't have "serious potential value to the town if true" for the obvious reason you're likely lynched anyway if you don't. So for me, those two options kinda merge together.. I mean, if you intended there to be some important distinction, I've missed it. (They're also somewhat situational, but I'm sure you don't need to be told that.)

From my point of view, it's fairly simple. If I were Glork, had a reputation for making really brilliant fake claims, I might try making a really bizarre claim and then waving around the fact I'm really good at fake claiming as evidence that it can't possibly be fake, especially after a recent, very well-known fakeclaim that would be fresh in people's minds. That's contingent on it actually working, but if I thought it would, I might try it, especially in a situation where I needed a fake claim and couldn't prepare one quickly. There's also the added benefit that precisely because you have a reputation for good fake claims, a really believable fake claim would engender scepticism or at least have people on their guard; with this, not so much. Perhaps I'm simply more willing to try crazy shit than you, but somehow I rather doubt that.

[Elmo]

Um.

Did I mention this game is confusing?

[Elmo]

Okay, but why does the idea of Fritz messing up the night choices seem amazingly implausible to me?

If CKD was not a cop, would he know he was being motivated? (If he was a goon, for example, not if he was some anti-town power role..)

n.b. I am taking Ibae's statement at face value for the moment.

[Elmo]

IH, please explain where Glork's gifts are supposed to have gone?

Code: Select all

      Glork [5] <- KaleiÐoscøpe, petroleumjelly, Elmo, PookyTheMagicalBear, ibaesha
   Rogueben [2] <- Skruffs, curiouskarmadog
          xyzzy <- JDodge
       Flameaxe <- Flameaxe
       Thin_Man <- Rogueben
curiouskarmadog <- IH

Not voting: CrashTextDummie, Glork, Thin_man, UltimaAvalon, Xyzzy, YagamiLight. 17 alive, 9 to lynch.

[Elmo]

I had the same thought as Pooky. I'm not sure how much weight to put in it, but I don't really see it as fitting.

Rogueben: What parts of Glork's arguments against IH do you support?

Glork, who's scum?

[Elmo]

How is it possible this is so confused?

MoS says he didn't get it.
MoS is dead, and known town, so he really didn't get it.
IH says he didn't get it.
The obvious answer is that IH really didn't get it.

Very probably, either:
a) they weren't sent because Glork is lying
b) they were sent but the same thing prevented both from arriving

Therefore lynching IH would tell us nothing.

[Elmo]

Oh, good, thanks you Iammars! I'm still here, obviously.

[Elmo]

That is an excellent prod.

[Elmo]

I think it much more likely that there is scum somewhere in the group of PJ, Pooky, Ibby who are all strong players, pursuing this lynch with such singlemindedness, which disturbs me. It seems to me that pro-town players of their caliber would continue to read and analyse the posts of others in the game to keep their suspicions updated.

What leads you to believe they have not "kept their suspicions updated" rather than they have an difference of opinion with you? Why does their push disturb you?

[Elmo]

I don't understand the IH (pseudo)wagon.

[Elmo]

this are good question

[Elmo]

Haschel: Why do you believe CKD is a cop? Why do you believe he is sane? Why do you believe a true innocent result on Glork clears him from being a GF-type?

[Elmo]

Q: Why are penguins such good racing drivers?

[Elmo]

Killing actions are usually last, right? You'd have figured undo would have targeted CKD. I would have imagined that roleblocking a cop would mean they couldn't investigate at all, but perhaps that's not right. Um?

[Elmo]

Farside: Why UA? Who's your #2? What would you think if we killed UA and he turned up town?

[Elmo]

Uh. A role name finder... finds role names.
(a) ZONEACE's role name is 'Radio Raheem'.
(b) ZONEACE's role was 'double voter'.

Does anyone want to suggest how the mafia (hypothetically, UA-mafia) gets from (a) to (b) here? I don't assert there's nothing weird going on with UA, but I don't see this as a viable explanation right now.

[Elmo]

I haven't read everything, but I have nothing to add with respect to Skruffs.

[Elmo]

If Ari Gold can't be considered a gay jew because he is a real person, then why would he be in the game at all?

The name of the game, folks, is Fritz's Fav

Fictional

Figures Faction Fest. Wikipedia says that "Ari Gold can refer to a number of people, including: Ari Gold (singer-songwriter / , R&B artist), Ari Gold (Entourage), a character in the HBO comedy Entourage, Ari Gold (filmmaker / actor / musician)". Only one of these is fictional; the one from Entourage is both Jewish and happily married. The flavour of Entourage Ari Gold fits well with a motivator role, too. That is to say: Ari Gold (ibaesha) is not a gay jew.

I still haven't actually read stuff.

[Elmo]

Hm. Have skimmed.

armlx: Claim, very precisely, the result you received with respect to Skruffs.
Skruffs: Link Famous Cats mafia. I'm feeling lazy. <_<
DGB: Why is Skruffs town?

[Elmo]

I need to reread the whole of this sucker to do anything useful. That hasn't happened yet, but I guess it needs to with the deadline and all. Hrm.

Does anyone here have something like good meta on PJ-scum?

PJ: Could you surmise the reasons why Scope is likely not paired with Glork?

Um. Let's not forget about Rogueben? I would arbitrarily be quite happy with killing him right now unless there's something I forgot. I am not getting warm fuzzies from a hypothetical PJ-vote.

[Elmo]

He's been perennially under-the-radar; he defended Glork; I thought he was scummy earlier on gut; to some extent, process of elimination.

Infact

vote Rogueben

, albeit that might change once I've read up.

I can't think of anything beneficial that might come from Haschel spilling the details of what abilities he's given out.

[Elmo]

Vote stays until he does something to mollify me. Would also consider lynching Farside for no apparent reason.

I keep telling myself I'll read.

[Elmo]

Point.

I will be around. Um. EGL is viable for me. Farside too. PJ, why'd you prefer her? I kind of like what I see skimming over Thin_man; less so, EGL's predecessors.

Mod

: Please prod, like, everyone. Thanks.

[Elmo]

Hi.

[Elmo]

'scum is back up, wooooo

Hmm. That's freakishly similar to where I'm at. I don't want to lynch {armlx, PJ, Scope, Haschel}. I'd prefer not to lynch bionicchop2 or Farside, but I don't feel strongly about Farside. So,

unvote, vote EGL

for the time being.

Vote count is:
EGL- 3 - armlx, bionicchop2, Elmo
petroleumjelly - 1 - scope
farside - 1 - petroleumjelly
Haschel Cedricson - 1 - EGL
Not Voting - 3 - Haschel Cedricson, shudderWINGS, farside.

[Elmo]

Hmm. Would consider lynching Farside if the necessary stars align, but I don't think anyone else is around. It would have to be me moving from someone with two votes to someone with two votes to guarantee a lynch at this point.

Note for posterity: I am annoyed that shudderWINGS has not posted at all today. Pointy sticks should be employed tomorrow.

[Elmo]

I think it's pretty much me and Scopey who haven't. Flip a coin or something?

[Elmo]

Sarc and Blight having a horrible, horrible exchange, despite both being town. Glork got run up by Ibaesha, fumbled the claim, and was lynched. Armlx seems to be a tracker. Can't think of anything else massively interesting.. should probably reread soon, but yeah, it's quite an epic.

I am Federico Diaz, a mortician. My ability is one-shot, and can only be used after night 3: I can target a corpse, and I will receive a list of the people who targeted that player. I used my ability last night, on the corpse of WeyounsLastClone. The only person who has targeted him is PetroleumJelly, who has claimed a role that can't target other people.

Vote

:

PetroleumJelly

.

Only KScope is left to claim, I think.

[Elmo]

Dunno what PJ is doing. I can give reasoning why I waited, but it seems pointless since we've lynched. My result is as claimed, so yeah, he's scum unless there's been a modding error or something like that. I can't even imagine how that would happen. *shrug* I assume I'm eating a nightkill and there's more scum than PJ left, so:

PJ sounds sincere to me

vote: PJ

Thx for being obvious about the bussing, I was right about Rogueben then, yea? Pressure tomorrow plz.

KScope's claim of one-shot hider is weird. I can't think what use a single-shot hider would be, really. IDK. I agree with Armlx that it seems a sorta on-the-spot counter-claim to PJ. Someone go back and carefully examine his behaviour towards Glork / PJ. He looked a bit like bussing Glork. I'm not sure if his behaviour towards PJ is justified based on what he claimed, eh. Yesterday looks a little distance-y. Alabaska first, though! Look at Rogueben - Glork again.

I still love both of you, but PJ & Glork's flavour was really quite bad. Not very Fritzy at all, imo. I'd figure that means the scum don't have safeclaims. Please pressure people on that while avoiding modkills. And, you know, be smart.

HC & Armlx obv town. Various people are being dumb, but we lynched scum, so whatever. Um. That's it, good luck guise.

[Elmo]

Huh, I'm not dead. Okay.

I suppose if Alabaska's town, it would help him establish trust in me if I went over why I waited as long as I did. The idea of bussing like that is fairly out there, but meh. The details of my role are that I get a list of everyone who has targeted the dead player over the entire game, not just the night before they died; also, that they are targeted by any night action, not just the one that killed them. If I used it on, say, CKD's corpse, then I would get ibaesha, PJ, and possibly a few other people targetting him over the course of the game; that is, I'd have a list of people who were definitely power roles, but not know which of them was scum. To claim that result, I'd basically have to out some power roles. Waiting until later gives the benefit of a) more people are dead, so it's likely that we can write off e.g. Ibaesha being scum because we know her role b) less power roles exist towards the end of the game, so results are likely to be clearer and c) cops, trackers etc will have already given their results; it would suck to claim a result on someone a cop had already investigated and breadcrumbed a result on.

I have this feeling Scope's scum. I don't know exactly what it is about Alabaska.. he's not doing a great job of looking (acting?) town, no, and I didn't like Rogueben, but something makes me pause.

Alabaska: Explain in

great detail

why you hammered PJ only a few hours after saying you thought he sounded sincere. I don't understand at all what would make you switch. And yes, he can be very convincing, he has that icon under his name for a reason, but I don't know why you'd capitulate so fast if you were sincere.

KScope: I dunno if you'll do this or not, but please expound on exactly what and when you thought about both Glork and PJ. Especially what you meant by "PJ's putting on a show", why and when you started suspecting PJ.

Both of you, claim any additional flavour you might have whilst dancing around modkills.

Alabaska's remark towards KScope is entirely correct, to the extent I never thought anyone would clear him based on armlx's "no target" result.

KScope is not in any way cleared

. PJ's comment towards Rogueben about the mod having some reason for not replacing him sounds distancey, but it's hard to be confidant. Farside's flavour seems about right. I think.. hm. She's kinda borderline leaning town. I would like to hear her thoughts on Kscope in particular. Armlx I am happy enough just to call town at the moment, heh. I will go over the game in more detail once I get back.

From memory, I don't remember anything that would contradict armlx's result on Skruffs. I need to reread in detail to drag what Skruffs meant out, but please go over this while I'm away. Personally, I really don't see armlx-scum claiming that false result. I am also not interested in scenarios based on mod error. Gotta run, seeya.

[Elmo]

Oh, yeah, Farside: Please explain in detail where/when/why you thought PJ was scum, too. Thanks.

[Elmo]

Ergh. Logically, lynching Alabaska then KScope wins it unless Farside or armlx are scum. I dislike how KScope appears to be keeping his options open to a large extent.

I actually quite like Alabaska's claim. That's awesome regardless of his alignment, heh.

Alabaska: I understand the first two reasons you gave, but they do not appear to be anything that changed from before to after. Fundamentally, both are true at the point where you said he was sincere, and both are true when you hammered him. There does not appear to be any significant change other than people voting him. Do you understand why I am suspicious of you hastily bussing him?

I.. really don't want to hammer yet. You people need to swear to me you will seriously consider KScope-scum if I die tonight.

[Elmo]

For what it's worth, I would probably have ended up not voting for Alabaska. I thought his claim of the smilie was too fritzy to be fake, heh.. I didn't really have time to get anything else together at that point, though. Blah. Glad just to have this over with at this point

PJ: Hm, how'd you think I should have played it? Use it night 4 on the corpse of MoS and claim results immediately? I thought we'd get a lot more milage out of other info roles than we did.. I don't think we got a single scum lynch out of another info role (Does Glork count?)

armlx: I haven't even reread the game in months, since I thought I'd be killed off when I claimed.. what actually happened with Skruffs?

Scope: Oops. Please take it as a compliment that I thought you were bussing