Fritz's Fav Fictional Figures Faction Fest - Game over

[Glork]

Vote: Glork

Bah! Go town!

[Glork]

PS, the fact that PJ said "nubs" makes him automatically win this game.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: UltimaAvalon

for schtealing my schelf-voting schtick.



Bastard scum.

[Glork]

Whoa, a claim on Page 2-3?


I missed something here.



CAN I HAMMAH????

[Glork]

Vote: UltimaAvalon

[Glork]

Voting sarc is also :goodposting:

I would also be okay with a lynch on IH.

[Glork]

I would like to remind people that I am in this game, in case they haven't noticed it.

Yeah, g'fuckyourself.

[Glork]

Man, I sure glad I did a re-read of that Day 1. All sorts of useful stuff. Are we back to random voting?

So Glork, do you think Tarhalindur breadcrumbed an investigation result?

This is the only useful post thus far.

vote: Glork

Man, I hate myself for doing that.

No. I doubt he would have so casually moved to Sarcastro if he had.


That and I'm not scum.

[Glork]

Also, Glork + IH + MoS = scum x 3.

Unvote, Vote: Glork

Die, please.

You seriously need to get your scumdar recalibrated (except that you're probably right about IH).

MoS is obviously protown. I'm obviously protown.



I don't really like the flavor of the HK-47 role. You'd think that he'd be a Vig or an SK (although, as mentioned, vicious stabbings don't really fit the flavor of HK-47). Nevertheless, I don't think that sounds like a role BBB would make up, so I'm inclined to believe it for now. I'm fairly certain that, before the end of the game, we'll need to "test" his ability and see if he dies when off-lynch, but he's definitely not the play for today.

[Glork]

Actually... Sarc, of the people who have wagoned you today, I'd like to know why you picked the three of us (with "wagoning" used as a loose term, as neither MoS nor I actually

voted

for you).

[Glork]

EBWOP: Okay, so MoS did vote you. I need to read more carefully. That's what I get for posting all stream-of-consciousness.

[Glork]

No. Do better than that. I'm done fucking around, and I'm going to start laying down the law 'round here.

[Glork]

No. Do better than that. I'm done fucking around, and I'm going to start laying down the law 'round here.

Maybe you could start by explaining why your vote on UA is "for schtealing [your] schelf-voting schtick", because that's the only reason you've given. Oh yeah, and that was back on day one. So excuse me if I'm sensing a little hypocrisy here.

Why didn't you vote for me if you thought that it was a good idea? Becuase UA's theft of your schtick was just so scummy?

Actually, it's currently on UA because I'm thinking that the SlasherScum is probably a scumchatter. Admittedly, now that I think about it, UA has been relatively scarce in ScumChat as of late, and my vote is probably better suited to somebody who has actually been active in ScumChat recently, such as yourself or IH.

Anyway, I've mostly seen some bad OMGUS from you, I don't like the "gut" explanation, and it smells like a further attempt to contiue a

VERY

bandwagony trend. D1 ended prematurely due to some bad wagoning, D2 started off with a couple of big wagons, and we've already forced a couple of claims for no reason at all. Now that I've actually read through the game with an eye for what's going on, I'm a little miffed that we're at Page 9, and people seem to be throwing votes around like this is a late-night UPick game in ScumChat.

Unvote
Vote: IH
FoS: Sarcastro

[Glork]

No wait, I want back on UA.

Unvote, Vote: UA

Glork? Why you mad at me? Oh....right.....the hammah. Well, too bad, I saw it first.

UA, I'm curious to know how you "saw the hammah" first when Jordan was allegedly at Lynch -2 (because ZONEACE was doublevoting him and screwed up our vote counts).

[Glork]

...and how did you come to this reasoning? Just curious how you came to the conclusion of slasherscum=scumchatter

*Shrugs*


I have my reasoning.

[Glork]

It is undisclosed at this time. And it shall remain that way.

[Glork]

Meh. Combination of targets and meta on Fritz's modding tendencies. That's why.

[Glork]

and I'd also be interested why you'd put me in the same category as IH in scumchattitude

It's more "attitude" than "scumchat"titude. Your play has been, quite frankly, terrible in my opinion. You've flat-out stated that IH, Tal, "anybody who votes for Ibby," Xyzzy, Jordan, IH again (based on "voting for Sarc" at the start of D2), Flameaxe for no apparent reason while asking for a claim, and IH/MoS/Glork were all scum with no reasonable explanation given.

That is a solid 1/4 of the game with no discernable reason given for your behavior

. I realize that part of it was early-game spam, but the fact that you can't substantiate anything beyond "gut" at the end of Page NINE says something to me. Even at this stage in the game, there are votes flying around for basically no reason at all.

As I am the current leading wagon, let's take a look at the people voting for me:
BMQ, based on possible investigation result from Tal.
Theo for no discernable reason
Ibby based on Gut
Sarc based on Gut
UA for no given reason whatsoever

Okay, let's take a look at the second biggest wagon, on you, Sarc:
Flameaxe, no reason given (except that he wanted to bandwagon as part of his role)
KScope, no reason given
Cephrir, opening D2 post
IH, based in part on percieved noncommittance
Earlier wagoners - JDodge, no reason given; UA, no reason given; Blight, no reason given; MoS no reason given....


Feh. Fine, strike you off as likely Mafia, barring multiple groupkillers. That doesn't mean I'm happy with the way you've played. My point is, that nobody's really saying anything in this game. Given that your reasoning is "gut" and "I don't sound like protown Glork," the only thing I can really say is that:
A) I want you to explain what you think usual "protown Glork" is like; and
B) I want you to explain what you think GlorkScum is like.
Actual game-relevant examples would be extremely helpful.

[Glork]

And Sarc, you never explained your "Gut" regarding IH or MoS.

[Glork]

I realise it probably doesn't look very good to suddenly back off like this, but I figure it's better to step back than dig myself into a hole by continuing to be bull-headed about this.

Ironically, that's almost exactly what I was thinking as I made the "feh, you're probably not scum" post based on the wagon against you.

I'm still curious as to your meta towards me. The last two times I was scum were Space Monkey (in which I played similarly to the way I started off this game) and 8-Bit (in which I was ruthlessly logical and in fact managed to lead a lynch on a Mafia Spy). I know you're familiar with both games, and I remember you mentioning 8-Bit in ScumChat once, so I was confused as to how you felt what "not protown Glork" meant, hence my questions to you.

[Glork]

Wait, you think I was

reserved

in CoOps? In one of my very first posts in that game, I demanded that the players massclaim their codenames, and I went balls-to-the-walls to defend that demand as long as possible. Then that whole DGB thing happened. I honestly think that's the most angry, aggressive game I've had aside from my hatred for the Huggle Alliance in the original Lights Out.

[Glork]

I'm going to go ahead and assume that your meta on me sucks. If you want evidence of that, I think I've already come up with half a dozen games where I go crazy as town (both rationally and flippantly).



But seriously. You competely blew my mind with that comment.

[Glork]

You're right, Theo, in that we won't ever know.

However, I find it odd that you bring up him questioning his own sanity yet are willing to follow a simple vote for me. That makes it sound like you're finding an

excuse

to vote for me, rather than looking for a good reason. If you honestly believe that Tal's sanity were an issue, then

regardless of whether he targeted me, and regardless of what result he might have gotten on me

, the result would be insignificant.
Why exactly are you voting for me?
What exactly do you think was Tal's most likely reason for voting me to start the game? What do you think was his reason for moving off of me?
Do you think that sanity was an issue for Tal? If so, if he got a guilty result on me, how much weight would you put behind such a result?

At any rate, I still believe there is nothing strongly indicative of Tal's result. I maintain that if he actually had a guilty on me, he likely would have behaved as cops generally should (and do) behave -- he would have left his vote on me or given further indication that he felt I was scum.

[Glork]

I think we'd be more productive lynching Sarcastro or Glork at this point. Probably more Sarcastro, but either way we could make a lynch today that would provide useful information, unlike that Day 1 lynch.

Okay, I'll bite. Why would a lynch on each of us provide significant useful information?

[Glork]

That's brilliant, BMQ. Lynch the people who are actually trying to produce something and let the scums lurk their way through the game.

[Glork]

EBWOP: And no, I'm not advocating a Cephrir lynch right now. I'm not even sure why he's being strung up. I'd like to put some pressure on some of the people who are just wagoning relentlessly and/or are stating things without choosing to back them up at all. *eyes KScope*

[Glork]

I'm trying to decide if that's a cue to pull the Paragon card here or not. <.<


Seriously, though. What do you think of the following players:
curiouskarmadog
Blight
ZZ (xyzzy)
RogueBen
CrashTextDummie
KScope

[Glork]

KScope, a few things:
1) I'm not the OMGUSy type. You ought to know this by now, and if you don't, ask anybody.
2) I don't understand why you're singling out your

own

name on the list, when that list included first mentions of several players (such as karmadog, RogueBen, and Blight) who are not suspicious of me.
3) I explicitly stated earlier that I wanted pressure on people who hadn't posted much and/or hadn't substantiated their opinions. You absolutely fall into that category, so there is no reason to suspect or assume OMGUS.

[Glork]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote="Glork"]KScope, a few things:
1) I'm not the OMGUSy type. You ought to know this by now, and if you don't, ask anybody.[/quote]You can learn it.[/quote]Erm... the trick is to learn

not

to be susceptible to OMGUS, which I already have done. (By the way, when I

do

"OMGUS," it's almost always something with a reason behind it, and more a sign that I'm protown, a la Ibby's OMGUSing habits.)

[quote="KScope"][quote]2) I don't understand why you're singling out your

own

name on the list, when that list included first mentions of several players (such as karmadog, RogueBen, and Blight) who are not suspicious of me.[/quote]I quoted what you wrote. The post only mentioned me. I found it worth noticing.[/quote]I named you because you had posted just recently having done exactly the kind of thing I was looking out for. Nevertheless, you were not the only person on my list.

[Glork]

Ask somebody to verify it, then, IH. Given how many veterans are in this game, I'd be suicidal to make up a meta on myself.

[Glork]

I suppose that's fair enough. *shrug*

I guess it doesn't help either that I used to (way back in the day) say to people that I was trying to actively destroy metagames on me, anyway. <.<


What I will point out, though, IH, is that I pointed to several self-meta signs in Mafia 60 (such as the uber-lengthy PBPA of the entire game), and they held true.

[Glork]

I'm voting UA still?

Unvote, Vote: Blight

[Glork]

FoS: Skruffs

PAWN IS YOUR PREVIOUS INCARNATION. PAY ATTENTION, DUBMASS.

Thank you. That is all.

[Glork]

Huh. Fun fact: Skruffs' vote is nowhere to be found, and Pawn's is still on Thin_Man

MOD: I think your Vote Counter fails to take into account replacements. The Vote Count given is inaccurate.

[Glork]

[quote="Fritzler"]

Alive

: 21/28

• Thin_man
  
• curiouskarmadog
  
• Blight
  
• IH
  
• Skruffs (Formerly Pawn)
  
  
• Xyzzy
  
• Sarcastro
  
• Mastermind of Sin
  
• ibaesha
  
• JDodge
  
• Flameaxe
  
• petroleumjelly
  
• theopor_COD
  
• BrianMcQueso (Formerly Macros)
  
• Rogueben
  
• Cephrir
  
• YagamiLight
  
• CrashTextDummie
  
• Glork
  
• UltimaAvalon
  
• KaleiÐoscøpe[/list:u][/quote]

[Glork]

In fact,

Unvote, Vote: Skruffs

.


The fact that he

BLINDLY ACCUSED ME OF KILLING PAWN

without realizing that

HE IS PAWN

tells me that he's probably just looking to sluff suspicion wherever he can.
3-1 odds right now that Skruffs is a dirty birdy.

[Glork]

Also, HOW THE FUCK DO YOU NOT KNOW WHO YOU REPLACED IN THE GAME?


What do you think of Pawn's behavior?
Why do you feel that his unreasoned vote and inactivity were suspicious?
Who are your scumbuddies?




Guys, I bagged one.

[Glork]

Oh. Looking at Pawn's and Skruffs' voting history, Pawn had voted Xyzzy before being replaced. In the Vote Count, Skruffs' vote is

listed in the right place

-- it just

uses the wrong name

.


Still. Mudflinging, OMGUS, and rolefishing ("FoS. What do you know about 'previous incarnations?'"), and general tone/attitude definitely give me a SkruffScum vibe.




wagonandkillplzkthxbai

[Glork]

Really, MoS? That surprises me.

What do you think of Skruffs' reaction to my FoS of him? What do you think of his asking about Pawn, role abilities, request for information that he thought I had, and his immediate

suspicion

of me for possibly knowing something about hiim and/or another player? What do you think of his accusation that I killed a player who had gotten replaced?




Also,

MODPROD: Ibaesha, Xyzzy, Rogueben, CrashTextDummie

I have a feeling that Rogueben (only post Sept 25) and Xyzzy (only post Sept 25) will need to be replaced outright.

[Glork]

Skruffs, the "I'm going to play this off like I was joking" attitude won't work here.


I want serious responses to my questions.

[Glork]

Unvote

I couldn't tell from the post in which he asked about Pawn, and his reaction to my DURR post seemed serious enough. Now I feel like a giant toolbag.

[Glork]

I was just asking you what you thought of Pawn because I thought you were being serious about suspicion for lurking. *shrug*

[Glork]

Ibby is :goodposting:

I will also go back to my

Vote: Blight

.

[Glork]

Yeah, this page has not been one of my stellar moments.

[Glork]

Guys, I'm starting to think MoS might be scum.



Hunch, mostly. There's something in the undertone of his behavior that I don't like. I'll investigate more later.

[Glork]

Could you explain how you feel his posts are rolefishing?

What kind of role info did he ask for, aside from your alleged "fake-claim"?

[Glork]

I've got a reason you'd potentially do it as scum, Sarc.

By going competely over the top with this whole charade, you've obfuscated the fact that, up until this attack on Blight, you've hardly substantiated any of the (many, many) baseless accusations you've made.




There.

[Glork]

Glork, out of curiousity, what do you think of what Sarc's done here? Your last post seems kind of like throwing fuel on the fire, but not really a true accusation. I just ask this because I've known you to spend some time in games throwing about baseless accusations. Sarc seems to have taken such behavior to a much higher level, but it is still very similar.

As I've said before, I find Sarc to be reasonably protown. However, his insinuation that there's no basis for him to behave this way as scum is false, so I felt obligated to point out a reason. (Incidentally, I'll note that Sarc has ignored my post altogether.)

Anyway, you're right in that I do spend time in some games throwing my weight around. I've done it both as town and as scum before, and as scum the motivation is sometimes exactly what I just posted -- by making blatantly unreasonable accusations, I can hide behind the "I'm looking for reactions" playstyle and I can hide the fact that I'm not actually contributing anything to the discussion.

While Sarc's earlier play (and, more importantly, the attitude others had held towards him) made me believe him to be protown, I'm not going to lock myself into that opinion and I'm not going to let Sarc play "since Player X can't prove it, it can't be true."

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Sarcastro

That's enough of that.

[Glork]

Like I said... using it to skirt real contributions.

[Glork]

I should also point out that this seems to completely have fallen by the wayside. It's now looking like it was a mere feint to relieve the pressure building on him so that he could go back to playing the Bull-Headed Irrational.


Maybe Sarc's the SK I was musing about earlier.

[Glork]

Yeah, because you've just been a goddamn bastion of contribution, right?

Why don't you start off by explaining why you decided to move your vote off of

guaranteed scum

Blight onto the

obviously pro-town

player who

caught him

is just making a bunch of meaningless noise?

Fixed.


Compared to 95% of the game, yes. I have been a goddamned bastion of contribution. Filter through my posts (Fritz even provided those handy links at the start of the game) and compare me to, say.... BMQ, Xyzzy, Rogueben, Karmadog, PJ, CTD, Avalon, Theo, Flameaxe, Cephrir/Blight/Yagami up until the last few days.... and, well, you get the picture. Recall the exchange where, after BMQ said lynching Glork/Sarc would give the msot information, I pointed out that I was one of the few forces in the game actually

driving

meaningful discussion, and BMQ subsequently backed down.

Most of your posts are unqualified statements and/or mere filler, Sarc -- such as the one I am currently responding to. A weak, inaccurate, borderline ad-hom attack and some propagandic question fraught with unqualified "I'm town and you are scum" blahblah.

When you backed off earlier and said "okay, I should start playing properly," I saw that as a protown sign. Why?

Because, as I've already stated, that's how any decent protown player should behave when he picks up attention for his misbehaviors.

Now your behavior is what I would expect from scum. Go back and look at how I behaved in Committee Mafia during my spat with PJ. I decided to try to go "over the top" in my debate with him. Had another scum not killed PJ, I would have been strung up the very next day.



The way I'm seeing your play, it's a mind-numbingly awful blend of what I usually see from MBLscum and what I usually see from GlorkScum. I'd put you in roughly the same category (playstyle-wise) as us, so I'm very happy with my current read and vote.

[Glork]

I'm getting sick of this game.

Try shutting up.

[Glork]

2. You think that it's far more likely to be done by scum than by aggressive town because scum have a reason? Yes, Yagami, an incredibly insane reason. And Yagami, ask yourself how many of your actions in a game of mafia are made for a specific alignment-based reason. Don't give me bullshit about acting pro-town when you're pro-town, because any even semi-competent player will at least try to act pro-town (for the most part) as scum.

Tell me, Sarc.... Since when has "I'm doing something so silly/blatant as scum that there's no way I can be scum" ever been a valid defense to you?

Even

I

don't use that when I fly off the handle at people.




In other news, I share Yagami's opinion that the "argument" between Sarc and Blight disinterested me to the point of lurking through the whole thing.

[Glork]

EBWOP: And I'll give you a damend good reason why you would plausibly do it as scum, Sarc. Did you read Page 1 of Space Monkey? With MBL at Lynch -1 on Page 1, I called for a hammer on him, trying to goad somebody into lynching him.

Why?

A) I felt there was a non-insignificant chance that somebody would do what I was demanding;
B) Regardless of whether somebody hammered MBL or not, I was confident that I could talk my way out of the scummilicious behavior by saying "oh, I'm just being ridiculous."




You're a smart boy. You can figure out the similarities between the two situations.

[Glork]

Honestly, Pantsman, there doesn't seem to be a whole heck of a lot to "distact from" aside from Sarc's hellbent KILLBLIGHT philosophy.

In other news, I'd like to see PJ elaborate on his "Glork is playing like he did in Space Monkey" comment.

[Glork]

lulz


Yag is beating Sarc at his own game. This, kids, is entertainment.

[Glork]

Nah, not scum Sarc, just horribly disinterested in this game right now.

[Glork]

In other news, I'd like to see PJ elaborate on his "Glork is playing like he did in Space Monkey" comment.

And I'd like a golden toilet. Here's my "elaboration", though:

He is acting like a 'dubmass', then trying to smooth it over.

Make the connection yourself. In case it has not been made clear, explanations are not my bag this game.

FYI: I'll think Ibby has gotten the same vibes from you. True story.

So let me get this straight.
Page 1, I arbitrarily vote myself during the random stage of the game.
Page 3, I arbitrarily vote for UA for voting for himself ("stealing my schtick"), still random stage of the game.
Top of Page 5, I ask if I can hammer the claimed player -- admittedly similar to Space Monkey, but an action that you should know was taken with SM well in mind.
Very next post, UA hammers Jordan (possibly unknowingly) before anything could play out.

Beyond that, what exactly do you have on me? How else did I 'act like a dumbass'?

I should point out that I acted more "like a dumbass" as town in Face-To-Face, where I

used a die-roll to bandwagon-vote a player on page 11 of the game

(and even re-rolled when my first roll turned up Thesp, whom I had chosen to defend for no reason whatsoever). Later in Day One, I jumped on the wagon of the eventual mislynch of the day beacuse "I [felt] like wagoning the living crap out of him."
Regarding my play, I started "smoothing it over" on Day Two, once Patrick came at me with some pressure.


I guess I'm just curious to know what makes you think "Space Monkey" and not "Face-To-Face" when you look at my play.

[Glork]

Glork, why do you feel that Sarc is more likely an SK scumbag than another sort of scumbag?

That earlier wagon against Sarc was still really bad and felt possibly scum-driven, but his play seems so off I want to believe he's scum.



Admittedly, I haven't read much of the recent Sarc-Blight/Yagami arguments, so if this is a repeat question or something Sarc has already covered, I apologize in advance. Questions for Sarc:

What reason(s) would you plausibly behave the way you did if you are protown?
Why do the aforementinoed reason(s) outweigh the disadvantages or risks of behaving the way you did?

[Glork]

EBWOP: That's not to say that I haven't ruled out SarcMafia or SarcOtherScum or even SarcTown. I really don't know what I think at this point because I can't make hide nor hair of Sarc's play from any perspective. I wholly agree with Ibby that he's dominated discussion to the point of distracting from the rest of the game. On the off-chance that he is actually right about Blight, he's still shut down so many other possible conversations that I don't think anybody can find anything else to talk about, and I doubt we'll come to a consensus as to whether we should lynch Sarc, Blight, or neither.




Also, this game needs some serious replacements.

MOD: Did you see my prod requests in this post:

Also,

MODPROD: Ibaesha, Xyzzy, Rogueben, CrashTextDummie

I have a feeling that Rogueben (only post Sept 25) and Xyzzy (only post Sept 25) will need to be replaced outright.

Also, BMQ should probably be prodded now, too.

[Glork]

Oh, true. That post was made back when you hadn't been posting.

[Glork]

Skruffs, what exactly would faking a misinterpretation have accomplished if I were only to back down a few posts later?

(Also, I should note that after I made my "PAY ATTENTION DUMBASS" post, KScope posted something along the lines of "LOL PWND," indicating that he interpreted your post as serious as well.)

[Glork]

You never addressed my behavior in FTF. I would definitely have categorized it as "harmful." Is there any particular reason you failed to address it even with me having pointed it out?
Your 'meta' on me is a crock of shit.

Also, I don't see how my UA vote is/was harmful. I'm still waiting for UA to explain why he said I was angry with him "stealing my hammer" from me D1 if he allegedly did not know about ZONEACE's doublevote. How does he steal the hammer if he doesn't know he's taking it?

Furthermore, I've already explained why my misinterpretation of Skruffs is reasonable (KScope appears to have interpreted similarly), and I've questioned why I would supposedly accomplish anything by faking an argument regarding Skruffs.



You're 0 for 3, sir. Try putting the bat on the ball next time.

[Glork]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 561#550561

[Glork]

...that reminds me.

*goes to edit his sig*

[Glork]

I'll wager that Space Monkey is the only time in which I've ever called for a premature hammer at all. (Also, on a technicality, I only said that I wanted to be the hammer. I realize there's an implicit desire to actually go through with the hammer, but you seem to be assuming that, had somebody put him at what-we-thought-was-lynch-minus-one, I would've hammered right away. How much weight are you actually willing to put into that assumption?)

PJ, you don't strike me as the kind of person who takes a

single

incident which took place under unusual circumstances and tries to turn it into a full-blown meta.


Color it OMGUS if you so desire, but

FoS: PJ

.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Actually, I just changed my mind. I

could

see PJ doing that, especially considering how traumatized he was after that game. I guess it makes sense that SM would stand out in his mind. Point stands, minus the FoS on PJ.

[Glork]

Omega Cannon: PJ

[Glork]

Jath mentioned this game and I forgot about it. (Actually, Ether did too, earlier today.)

I'll read up and post when I have time. I'm gone all weekend.

[Glork]

Some would argue that it is protown in certain situations. Ask Yos sometime.

[Glork]

I think he'll be lynched today, regardless of whether he claims or not.

[Glork]

I don't think that's true at all, Ben. If he's protown and gets lynched, nothing will have been accomplished by his claiming. In fact, regardless of his alignment, if he gets lynched postclaim or without a claim, nothing would be accomplished by his claiming.

I'm not sure why you'd bring up fake-claims to begin with. Looking at the dead roles and names so far, I can't see any distinction between the deceased scums and the dead protown players. Do you think scums have a reason to be given fake-claims? Do you think that Cephrir fake-claiming would necessarily mean that scums have been provided fake-claims? How would you differentiate between a fake-claim created by Cephrir and one provided by the mod?

We also know that both dead scums have provable abilities. Perhaps Cephrir would have a similar ability and wouldn't need to "fake" anything aside from his alignment.

[Glork]

Glork, what is the *harm* in Cephrir claiming, if he's going to be lynched anyways?

It's a waste of our time and effort, and it's more useless shit to read through later.

[Glork]

I'm pondering jumping aboard. I'm also pondering actually reading the last howevermanypages to see if I agree with jumping aboard.

[Glork]

Sarc, the schtick is really getting old.

[Glork]

I think we're in a bit of a Catch-22 then:

• Your constant bitching caused several players (such as myself) to lose interest
  
• Our lack of interest is causing the game to drag
  
• Dragging game leads to more SarcBitching

[Glork]

Nah, not scum Sarc, just horribly disinterested in this game right now.

QFT

Nah, not scum Sarc, just horribly disinterested in this game right now.

QFT

I fully agree with these statements

I used to look forward to reading this thread. Then Sarc and Blight started talking.

Granted, I still haven't read any of the last 10 pages of Sarc/Blight drama...

After rereading (except for those awful Sarc/X arguments that I refuse to put myself through again...

There are God knows how many pages of this stuff. People can either make their own opinion or skip it entirely.

I'm

this close

to just requesting replacement to get out of this game. I really hope you're having fun, Sarc, because I don't think many other people are. I don't look forward to reading the game, I don't like much of what I've played so far, and you don't seem to give a shit about the fact that people are upset with your chosen playstyle. Even PJ, who proclaimed in the signup thread that he was going to change styles, has shown the willingness (or possibly natural tendency) to bend.

[Glork]

No, Sarc, I'm criticizing your contsant clogging up the thread. We fucking KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. Argument from Reptition will get you nothing.

[Glork]

Also, Cephrir is almost certainly town.

[Glork]

I'm voting Sarc, aren't I Scopey?

[Glork]

His posts are short and pointless, half of them are sarcastic remarks aimed at me

*ahem*
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 994#760994
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 182#761182
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 210#761210
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 691#761691
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 733#761733
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 782#761782
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 999#761999
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 527#762527
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 940#762940
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 965#762965
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 997#762997
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 120#772120
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 277#772277
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 427#772427
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 936#772936
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 159#773159
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 250#773250 (Special note: Irony!)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 786#773786 (Note: Does contain content RE: Flameaxe's claim, but no word on his proposed three scums)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 840#773840 (Note: See "Irony!")
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 844#773844
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 063#774063
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 088#774088
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 979#774979
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 791#775791
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 551#776551
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 259#778259
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 494#781494
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 096#783096
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 677#783677
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 402#784402
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 843#784843
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 097#785097
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 302#785302
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 322#785322 (Rough translation: "Playstyle is why 34 of my first 51 posts were useless one-liners!")

Sarc actually gets "better" at this point, in that he gets into some extended arguments with people he is attacking. As they accuse him of being scummy for his behavior, he tries to turn it around on each and every one of them (except possibly one person -- I honestly don't remember). Sarc creates his own issues then accuses others of wasting time by noncontribution and their attitudes towards him.

I more or less summed up how I felt about him in this post:

Yeah, because you've just been a goddamn bastion of contribution, right?

Why don't you start off by explaining why you decided to move your vote off of

guaranteed scum

Blight onto the

obviously pro-town

player who

caught him

is just making a bunch of meaningless noise?

Fixed.


Compared to 95% of the game, yes. I have been a goddamned bastion of contribution. Filter through my posts (Fritz even provided those handy links at the start of the game) and compare me to, say.... BMQ, Xyzzy, Rogueben, Karmadog, PJ, CTD, Avalon, Theo, Flameaxe, Cephrir/Blight/Yagami up until the last few days.... and, well, you get the picture. Recall the exchange where, after BMQ said lynching Glork/Sarc would give the msot information, I pointed out that I was one of the few forces in the game actually

driving

meaningful discussion, and BMQ subsequently backed down.

Most of your posts are unqualified statements and/or mere filler, Sarc -- such as the one I am currently responding to. A weak, inaccurate, borderline ad-hom attack and some propagandic question fraught with unqualified "I'm town and you are scum" blahblah.

When you backed off earlier and said "okay, I should start playing properly," I saw that as a protown sign. Why?

Because, as I've already stated, that's how any decent protown player should behave when he picks up attention for his misbehaviors.

Now your behavior is what I would expect from scum. Go back and look at how I behaved in Committee Mafia during my spat with PJ. I decided to try to go "over the top" in my debate with him. Had another scum not killed PJ, I would have been strung up the very next day.



The way I'm seeing your play, it's a mind-numbingly awful blend of what I usually see from MBLscum and what I usually see from GlorkScum. I'd put you in roughly the same category (playstyle-wise) as us, so I'm very happy with my current read and vote.

Pooky, you should lynch Sarc.

[Glork]

PS, now that I've re-launched an attack on Sarc, he's suddenly going to "remember" that I'm "scum." :/ :/ :/ :/

[Glork]

Right, remind me to post 3 useles posts to every one post.



See? I'm practicing already!

[Glork]

Anyway, the reason I didn't respond is probably because I think I got wrapped up in my argument with PJ at that point.

My vote for Skruffs, though misguided, was at least backed by reasoning. The overreaction ("PAY ATTENTION, DUMBASS") was intended for humor value because I thought Skruffs was being (or feigning being) a moron. Nothing more, nothing less.
My vote for Blight was a pressure vote, as he'd been quite the uberlurker. I realize I didn't explain so at the time, but that's more or less what it was. I moved away, but decided it was worthwhile to follow Ibby and apply some more pressure to Blight.
You failed to mention that I *did* explain my vote on UA (well beyond the initial random "self-voting schtick" vote), on IH, on Skruffs (contrary to what you claim).


I'm pretty sure I also pointed out that you

don't

do this everywhere. I think I even cited 8-Bit as a counterexample.

You state that "all" of your posts are like that, but you fail to address the fact that the

majority

of them are. Cephrir has made contributive posts as well, yet the way I see it, you seem to be trying to hold him to a different standard.



What do you think of Cephrir's claimed name and role in relation to his comment that claiming would be quite useless?

[Glork]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Glork, Claim. Preferred scum. [/quote]Eh?

[Glork]

I'm just wondering why you're asking me to claim scum.


I wouldn't lie like that. It'd be horribly destructive for us all.

[Glork]

I'm pretty sure I also pointed out that you

don't

do this everywhere. I think I even cited 8-Bit as a counterexample.

What are we talking about here? My huge argument posts or my short posts?

Interesting that you mention 8-Bit, though.

I meant the general "this is my personality/playstyle" bit. You seemed quite rational/normal in 8-Bit, as opposed to being an egotistical, obnoxious jackass.

I could be mistaken, though.

Not sure what you're saying here. Did you make a typo in the first sentence? My posts are not "all" anything. Some don't really contribute much. I know that. My point is that most of my posts are. I don't rememeber seeing any meaningful contribution from Cephrir.

I know what I'm thinking/tryingtosay, but I'm having trouble saying it.

Basically, I think you're being a hypocrite. You've harped on me and others for "contribution" yet for a huge portion of the game, you contributed nothing aside from accusing half the game of being scum with no explanations whatsoever. You seem to be okay with passing your own behavior off as a personality/playstyle exception, but you're not cutting anybody else any slack. Hopefully that makes more sense.

I don't think that comment really has anything to do with his role. Even if he's town, it seems more like a "give-up" post.

The thing is, Yos2 (and others) have claimed that one of the few times you should refuse to claim is when you're a Vanilla Townie. When Ceph made that post, that's the claim I expected him to make. I was just wondering whether you thought "well, supposing this guy

is

protown, what role(s) could he possibly have?"
Are you even thinking critically or hypothetically, or are you going to hide behind your own ego all game?

[Glork]

Glork, your loyalty is good, but other than sarc, who be scummy and why?

MoS did something earlier that pinged my scumdar, but I honestly don't remember what that is. I really ought to go back and look at it. I know that I had MoS's reaction to my Skruffs-misinterpretation as a small minus point for him.


I still don't think that UA responded to my point about him claiming to "steal my hammer" when there was no evidence that anybody was a doublevoter (and therefore he should not have known that Jordan was at Lynch-1 on D1).

(EDIT: Skimming over posts, I notice that MoS basiaclly QFT'd my "I am disinterested right now" sentiments once and later claimed that he was apathetic but not voting randomly. This posting reminded me of the way he sidled up to me D1 in LmL's NY game. I don't like the buddy-up feeling very much.)

Also, Happy Scumday, MoS!

Man, looking back on that Skruffs/Pawn thing, I

really

feel like an idiot. (For the record, I'm skimming backwards, which is why I brought up the suspecting-MoS thing before this.)

In fact, MoS has done a fair amount of QFTing and not as much other posting as I would like. Playstyle taken into account, though, I see this as being consistent with either MoStown or MoSscum.

KScope is probably protown. His attack on me was a little wonky, but I feel that I understand where he was coming from, and I don't believe his intent was maliciuos.

Oh, the other reason Blight was on my list: His really awkward defense of Cephrir and his attack on Theo. Blight defends the "I don't really suspect anybody" philosophy (which I personally

LOATHE

)

On the other hand, I can sortof see where Theo might be scum. In Day One of Face-To-Face Mafia, there was a random (literally, decided by a die-roll) bandwagon on Spectrumvoid. After three people jumped on, MBL jumped as well, citing an actual reason to possibly suspect SV. Of course, that reason was bull, SV was town, and MBL was scum. Point being, there's actually a pretty close parallel between Theo in this game and MBL in that game. I hadn't noticed this until just now.

(That said, Yagami's defense of Theo in Post 300 has been noted.)

Now I *do* remember disliking the first Cephrir wagon. Seriously, guys, this guy's protown. Both wagons against him are chock full of scummy-scum-scumbags. Other possible shady-faces on Cephwagon #1: MoS, JDodge. However, I note that Theo was actually *EARLY* on the Cephwagon, which changes things somewhat... he didn't try to fuel the fire. He started it unwittingly.

(Random sidenote: This backwards-reading thing is interesting. I don't think I've ever done this before. It's kinda fun, actually.)

Sarc, a question of clarification: Do you have

ANY

idea why you even

MIGHT

have been mentioned in the Day-Opening post for

ANY

reason whatsoever?

JDodge open defense of Sarc. Noted.




Well, this didn't really intend to turn into a re-read, but I think it actually helped.
Sarc is still scum.
MoS went after Sarc, while JDodge defended him.
Blight, JDodge, MoS, and Theo have all done things that make me uncomfortable, but not enough to make me prefer lynching any of them at this time.
(Also noteworthy: Sarc made a few empty "MoS is scum" comments, went after Blight rather heavily, and hasn't said much about JDodge or Theo as far as I can tell. JDodge, after defending Sarc earlier, has jumped on the "Shut the fuck up and let everyone else play the game, Sarc" wagon. Glork and MoS have felt similarly at points in the game.)

There's something deliciuos in all of this. I can feel it in my bones.

[Glork]

PS. Protowners:
Cephrir
Glork
KScope


That's about it. This has been a pretty scummy town so far. Lots of inactivity, though. Getting more fresh blood into the game might kick-start things.

(Also, I just realized that Pooky replaced

Theo

. Sorry, mate, but you're on my short list today. )

[Glork]

Jdodge always wagons, so I expect it.

What do you think of JDodge's defense of Sarc early today?

[Glork]

Wait a second... JDodge was attacking MoS for his questioning Sarc about the article, yet he wanted Sarc dead primarily because of the article.



JD, could you explain exactly what you were thinking early on today?

[Glork]

No, I was mistaken. JDodge went after MoS because MoS asked Sarc about the Day Scene.

This post about sums up the debate.

Thing is, JD was either being retarded (MoS's "If he tells me he doesn't know, I don't know if he knows" is valid), and JD seemed to imply that he knew Sarc didn't know. Or something.

[Glork]

EBWOP: I don't know... I can't tell if it's an underhanded defense or if JD implied knowledge of Sarc's role (and/or the opening scene) and/or if JD was just being retarded. That's why I want

him

to explain himself more clearly.

[Glork]

Wait a second... JDodge was attacking MoS for his questioning Sarc about the article, yet he wanted Sarc dead primarily because of the article.



JD, could you explain exactly what you were thinking early on today?

I have reason to agree with what is in the article but not necessarily think it to be completely and 100% true.

I meant regarding MoS. You cited "rolefishing," but that seemed like an awfully weak reason to go after MoS. You did back off, but the attack itself was just bad to begin with.

[Glork]

Meh. Fair enough.


I'm not sure how much of the article I believe earlier, but that's not what I was trying to focus on.

[Glork]

Elaborate?

[Glork]

.....like PJ's actually going to go read those games.

[Glork]

*shrug*

He also indicated that he wouldn't be dedicating large amounts of time/words to this game. It really wouldn't surprise me if he made you post them just for the hell of it.

[Glork]

Glork, give me a status update.

Um... I've finally recovered from my two weeks in Chicago and now I'm at work on a Monday morning?

[Glork]

Not gonna lie, I'm kinda tempted to follow Ibby blindly. She usually knows what she's doing.



Either that, or if you argue with her you'll wind up getting lynched or something.

[Glork]

unvote, vote Cephrir

Still thinking it's likely he's 'bad town' not scum so much, but this vote will work for now.

FoS

[Glork]

I also thought that was odd. I am much less sure of either of you two (Glork/ibaesha) than everyone else seems to be.

That's probably because Sarc is scum, Scope is an idiot, PJ is paranoid, and the others are mindless sheeps.

[Glork]

unvote, vote Cephrir

Still thinking it's likely he's 'bad town' not scum so much, but this vote will work for now.

FoS

Perhaps you'll like this more.

unvote, vote Glork

My Cephrir vote was merely a placeholder. I don't unvote without revoting. You should know this about me, Glork. And I was trying to take the time to go back and re-read to decide which of you and Sarc was more suspicious. I'm starting to think Brian was onto something earlier in the day about lynching one of you two. This vote is has a hint of gut in it that has stuck with me since the beginning of the day, but I don't like a couple of things. First, the way you tried to drum up suspicion against Jdodge. It was weak, and the way you backed off shows that you weren't all that serious about it. It appears that you were pushing false suspicion that didn't pan out. Second, the way you off-handedly mentioned just following me on CKD. Also, there was the way you painted Sarc as a possible SK. I think this is more likely if you think he's scum, but know he's not in your scumgroup.

OMGIS!

[Glork]

Meh, I guess I should probably actually post something worthwhile.



Putting a placeholder on somebody you think is protwn is moronic if you're protown. End of story. The vote on Cephrir was terrible, and it looked to me that you were hoping he'd end up with too much momentum. A seemingly useless/placeholder vote can do that.

A vote is a vote, and at this stage in a day, you should only be voting for somebody you'd be willing to lynch... NOT somebody who you think is likely town.

I think it was terrible then, and I think the "I don't unvote without re-voting" defense -- while that statement is true -- is a terrible justification for that vote. You could just as easily have put it on me or Sarc back then with the stipulation that you were considering moving it to the other. Why didn't you choose to do that?

Re: JDodge. Don't flatter yourself, Ibby. It's obvious that I've not been a fan of your play so far, so the idea that "I asked you about JDodge" implies "I was trying to drum up support [in general] for a JDodge lynch" is ridiculous. Most of that conversation was between myself and JDodge, because I was trying to figure out what was going on (which is more or less the exact opposite of trying to wagon him to death). If I were trying to drive a wagon, do you think I would have dropped it after a couple of minutes of Q&A?

Also, your statement that I 'pushed' Sarc as a possible SK is blown entirely out of proportion. I mentioned it at the end of

ONE

of my posts, and I think I made a clarifying statement

when asked about it by another player

. Explain to me how that is "

PUSHING

" that angle.

[Glork]

I fully plan on responding to CKD's case against me, and Glork's response to my vote, but I haven't had the time yet. It will be a lengthy post more than likely and I'm lacking in sleep so I'd like to be coherent when I make it.

Anyways, I can't believe I'm agreeing with 'Scope. But I am.

Five days later....

[Glork]

Gut = Good.

[Glork]

I have been wrong about him in the past, but when I look back on it, I'm only wrong about him when he's scum and I think he's town.

Sesame Street Mafia.

[Glork]

EBWOP: For reference, that was a game in which Ibby (who wasn't even in it, just following it along objectively) was completely convinced that I was scum. I was the Doctor.

[Glork]

I've been attempting to kill town tells on me my entire mafia career.



That's like saying "Sarcastro is being an obnoxious ass in this game." Nobody cares if it's universal.

[Glork]

Code: Select all

Sarcastro [4] <- Iammars, Cephrir, Glork, Mastermind of Sin 

....eh?

[Glork]

Could somebody sum up the case against Mars for me?

I'm a really lazy bastard.

[Glork]

All right, since it's obvious that CKD isn't going to die today, and since killing me would be so monumentally stupid it's not even worth considering, the real choice is between Iammars and Cephrir. To ensure that the idiots/scum don't sneak in an extra Sarc vote or two before the deadline, the competent pro-town players are going to have to choose one of those two to make dead. My vote in on Cephrir for now, but then again, Iammars is not only scum but also blatantly trying to get the most pro-town player in the game killed, so I'm fine with his death, too.

I still don't understand how you're blatantly protown. Mind enlightening me?

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... Repetition

[Glork]

You could just as easily have put it on me or Sarc back then with the stipulation that you were considering moving it to the other. Why didn't you choose to do that?

1. Then, and now, I don't know what to think of Sarc. I've given my opinion on his play more than once, and I think there are things he's done that are suspicious, but I'm not sure if it equates to scum.

2. When it comes to you, I don't lay down a serious vote (something beyond gut), unless there's some meat to it. I know how good you are at this game. I know how good you are at wiggling your way out of things. I also know how good you are at explaining away whatever things you've done. Hell, you already did it once with PJ today, and your reaction to my vote is pretty much what I would've expected and why I didn't want to just slap it down without having some type of relatively good case. As it is, my case against you is still weak, but it's all I have.

1) See, that still doesn't make sense to me. If I'm playing a game and I'm protown, I chastise the player who's playing like crap, but I generally move on and actually apply pressure

where it is more likely to help find scum

.

2) Again, if you had laid down a vote and said that you wanted some pressure on me to see how I behave, I probably wouldn't have been thrilled about it, but I certainly could have lived with it.

It's obvious that I've not been a fan of your play so far...

Oh, really? I had no idea until you FoSed me that you had a problem with my play at all. How obvious is it because I couldn't tell? Did other people think it was obvious that you weren't a fan? I think you're pulling this line out of your ass. And if you were so unhappy with my play, why the comment about voting CKD that you made? Why did you agree with me and vote Blight only after I voted him even though you'd expressed suspicion of him before? Sorry to say, but not being a fan of my play, why would you be willing to follow my voting or express interest in doing so?

Most of that conversation was between myself and JDodge, because I was trying to figure out what was going on (which is more or less the exact opposite of trying to wagon him to death). If I were trying to drive a wagon, do you think I would have dropped it after a couple of minutes of Q&A?

Didn't say you were trying to drive a wagon, and the thing is, if you were driving wagons today rather than randomly drumming up suspicion (which is how I felt about your actions towards Jdodge), I would be less suspicious of you.

"Randomly drumming up suspicion?" You truly are ridiculous. I'm investigating a matter which I want more information on, because I think there might be something there, and you accuse me of railing randomly on other people.

You've thrust me into a lose-lose situation here. If I play my "push wagons and see what people do" thing, I'm in trouble with some people (such as PJ) for being potentially reckless-scummy. If I try to interrogate people of interest, I'm apparently "randomly drumming up suspicion."

I

REALLY

want you to explain more on this. You have twice now claimed that I'm "drumming up" support/suspicion against JDodge, when I maintain that all I was doing was investigating the matter and trying to get reactions on it. If you think I was doing something else, I want you to point out exactly what makes you believe I was trying to rail suspicion against JDodge. I would furthermore like you to explain what I would have accomplished by digging up suspicion on somebody only to fall away after investigating the matter and move on somewhere else.

But seriously. You want to know what "drumming up suspicion" for no good reason is? This:

Cephrir who hasn't posted since Nov 9th. Even with my absence from MS, I've been more contributive than this guy. And here I was bitched out for putting a placeholder vote on him. Give me a fucking break.

Yeah. Throw suspicion against the guy who's gone completely inactive and should be replaced, and do it right near deadline, too. That's frickin'

genius

, Ibby.

Also, your statement that I 'pushed' Sarc as a possible SK is blown entirely out of proportion.

I never said pushed. I love how you not only say that word once, but twice, then capitalize it the second time. Let's get into the semantics here. I said PAINTED, not pushed. There's a difference between the two words and you did paint him as a possible SK. I never said you 'pushed' that angle. You dropped the possibility about Sarc being SK, and didn't mention it again until I questioned you about why you thought it. I questioned you because I thought it was a weird thing to say at the time and I still do. No, no, Glork, you're right, you never 'pushed' it. But you did plant the seed.

If I quoted "pushed," then it's because I misread or misremembered the word. I don't have much else to say about this, but remember the last time you got a player lynched over a semantics debate. I believe he was a Doctor. Semantics are a horrible way to go about finding scum, because a majority of the time, they are entirely flawed.

At any rate, I said what I said because I felt that way. You know me, and you know I'll speak what's on my mind. Picking people out as specific roles and stating as such is nothing new for me. (For example, I stone-cold labeled MoS as DGB's godfather in CoOps Mafia, and I was exactly right.) And I don't see what the problem is -- I get reactions from both the accused and other bystanders, and I get to voice my opinion on what's going on. "Planting the seeds" is just a slick way of labeling somebody's behavior as scummy, when there is no reason to believe it as such.



Anyway, with the deadline about 24 hours away and me in the vote lead, I guess I should claim to you idiots. I'm Troy McClure, Inventor. (I'm not actually an inventor -- I sell products to players via my infomercials.) N1 I gave an investigation to CPE and last night I gave a Doc ability to MoS.
I also have an RB, a Vig, and a Tracker ability to hand out.

[Glork]

Uhh, either Glork's lying or Fritz fucked up. I wasn't given shit.

Que?

[Glork]

Huh.

I'll go verify my action with the mod.

[Glork]

I'm reasonably sure that I established my position on Cephrir based on the wagon that ran him up and the manner in which he didn't think it was beneficial to claim (followed by the claim itself).


Anyway, Fritz confirmed my choice last night. I can only surmise that either I was blocked or redirected or something.

[Glork]

Gave IH a roleblocking last night.

I also gained a passive ability that was in effect for only last night. As far as I can tell, it's not related to my own role, but I have a couple of ideas on what may have happened. I'll elaborate on that later if I absolutely must.





I'd be down for an Ibby lynch today. I still want her to explain how she can justify her "drumming up suspicion" attack on me when she pointed at Ceph and said "look, this guy's not even posting" as a way to throw suspicion on him at end-of-day.

Also, Re this:

Still not sure why Glork claimed, he wasn't leading the vote count, so either he can't count or ... that was a jumpy claim.

Anyway, with the deadline about 24 hours away and me in the vote lead,

That should be a pretty big sign that I miscounted the votes.

After a re-evaluation of Sarc's play, I'm moving him from very likely scum to very likely town. I also think he may be onto something regarding CKD, as CKD's following Ibby's "but CKD is lurklurk!" comment is about as alarming/terrible as the point was to begin with.

[Glork]

Actually. Hm.



I

really

want to hear from CKD regarding Sarcastro, ASAP.

[Glork]

Vote: curiouskarmadog

[Glork]

You appealed to Iammars to wagon Sarc here, stating that you/MoS would gladly hop aboard, then MoS and Iammars both died as town, and when I asked you to weigh in on Sarc specifically, he got killed and you posted a mere hour later.



This could all be coincidence, but I'm not convinced.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Add to that the comments I made about you following Ibby's wretched reasoning in voting Cephrir at end-of-day yesterday, and I think we have a winner.

[Glork]

Reading is tech.

[Glork]

That's nice. I'm not going to tell you.

[Glork]

Actually, no, I don't want to say that either.

Telling you when I got the message could give you information on who may or may not have targeted me. Given that I obviously think you're a dirty scumbag, I'd like not to give out that information. You seem to be fishing for any shred of info that you can grab, and I don't trust you one bit.

[Glork]

No, I'm really not seeing it.

We both have claims that are as of now unverified. There are a miryad of reasons that could have contributed to MoS not getting the ability I tried to grant him.

I realize that there is an element of WIFOM to this defense, but if I were falseclaiming scum, it seems quite suicidial to claim an ability that I didn't have which is allegeldy verifiable. The fact that you've claimed to have an information role isn't really weighty at all in this case, because that's completely unprovable.

[Glork]

You got your results at daybreak, right?

No matter when I was targeted, that was probably processed before you got your nonresult.

[Glork]

Oh.

Unvote

[Glork]

It's not fucking

relevant

.

[Glork]

Okay, listen, CKD. I believe you now, because I now know that you tried to investigate me. I get that.

But here's how it works: First, any actions that affect the way other roles work: Any boosting effects, inventors, roleblockers, etc -- are processed before any other actions can be processed. The reason for this should be obvious (so that Fritz doesn't give incorrect information). Unless it's an explicit game mechanics, no abilities/changes/results are divulged as they are recieved.

At some point in the night, the last "role-altering ability" (for lack of a better term) was sent in. I wanted to keep that a secret, because that would give information about who/what roles are being sent in at what times, because that gives

completely unnecessary information

to everybody else -- including the scums. Trust me when, as a player with multiple years of playing and modding experience, results have to be processed in tiers. When Fritz got all of those "role-altering abilities" he sent me my notice and you your notice and then you probably sent in your second investigation target and got your results a couple of days before daybreak. That's just how it works.

Anyway, to reiteraite: The whole reason I'm not divulging when I got boosted is because it gives the scums an idea of activity levels, and that's not information that we should be sharing to the general public.

[Glork]

EBWOP: The whole reason I'm not divulging when

I found out I was boosted

is because....

[Glork]

No, it took effect last night and only last night.

[Glork]

CPE was basically random.
Given the way D1 progressed, MoS wasn't much more than random.
IH seemed unlikely to be killed, and getting someone to confirm me seems pretty paramount.

Also, could you explain what you mean by a role that "confers investigation immunity"?


UA's assertion that we should do something based on the note (I assume?) is ridiculous. Didn't a daybreak note for D2 state that Sarc was evil? Do you think said notes can be trusted, UA?

[Glork]

Beh, I shouldn't have spilled the beans. I'm kindof an idiot.

To be accurate, it made me invisible and thus immune to various night actions.

[Glork]

Yes, which is why I unvoted him. He seemed to know that something was messed up with investigating me. I am almost certain that CKD is legit.

[Glork]

PJ, when have you ever seen a Godfather who gets "No Result" upon investigation?


More later, I'm cooking dinner and American Gladiators is on soon.

[Glork]

I couldn't be killed, investigated, or roleblocked.




I have no idea what to say at this point. I'm being undermined from every possible angle, and I don't have an explanation for any of it.

Look at IH, Ibby, and lurkers once I'm dead and show up as I say. PJ is probably protown, and I think CKD is as well (even though apparently he didn't try to investigate me last night?).

But CKD, if you

did

investigate me, please reveal your result (or nonresult) immediately. You heavily implied it, and I got a notification explicitly saying that I was immune to those actions for this past night, so I can only assume that if you got any other result, you're full of shit.

[Glork]

By the way, if anybody's looking for information pertaining to Iammars' role, check this wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita

I myself haven't had a chance to look at it, but it seems likely applicable.

[Glork]

It said I was immune to nightkills, roleblocks, and investigations. I already asked for clarification on when that was into effect and was explicitly told that it was for

this past night and this past night only

.

I interpreted that to mean that none of those actions could be performed on me last night, because telling an innocent that they're investigation-immune doesn't make sense to me.





I don't know what to say. I'm not a blundering idiot, and I have a history of making very precise fakeclaims when scum (Space Monkey, Dantes in Fresno). None of this fits with that at all, and the confusion about this "investigation immunity" doesn't make any sense at all to me. Like I said, I know it's nothing more than WIFOM, but if I'm scum, I just don't see the point of making an allegedly "provable" fakeclaim that's just going to get me lynched the next day when I can't "prove" it.

I know that I'm being set up from some angle, and I'm

really

starting to wonder if IH is trying to send me to my grave.

[Glork]

Well obv he didn't, CKD... or else I'd have been confirmed yesterday. I can't explain for sure what happened, because (go fucking figure)

I don't know what happened

. We do know that the Mafia RB was alive through N2, and there have been multiple odd roles claimed so far (HK-47, my role, there's a dead "Information Director," Iammars died without his role being revealed), so it's completely within reason to believe that there was some factor that caused my ability not to work last night.

[Glork]

I don't know. I can ask exactly what "immune to investigations" means, because I may have misinterpreted it completely.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Or you could be naive (You haven't gotten a guilty yet, right?) and get innocent results regardless of what the status of your target is?

[Glork]

I am not prone to thinking Fritz would give the mafia (or even two members of separate mafias) or a SK the additional ability of being able to redirect. Even if he did, I also doubt that Glork has had his actions redirected, since if that were true somebody would have claimed to have gotten at least one of the "items".

Tell me, PJ. If you were scum (whether SK or MafiaScum) and you could redirect a gift anywhere you wanted, would you give it to aprotown player or to someone of your own alignment?
Now, if you were scum who had the ability to make my role unconfirmable and wreak general havoc by

not claiming to have recieved anything

, would you choose to admit that you got a gift?

Obviously you've been reading too much DN, because you're completely overthinking things.

Glork was on the road to being lynched yesterday (or at the very least, it appears he thought as much). Scum have a tendency of not wanting to be lynched, even if they can only postpone their death until the next night or the next day – this equals a longer amount of time where the town has that information, and they may be able to manipulate people or actions in the meantime.

At the very least, by claiming something which is "testable", Glork would almost be assured to stay his lynch for at least a single day, thereby giving him the opportunity to think overnight, and possibly discuss the game with his partner(s) if he has any. If Glork has no abilities to be "confirmed", then no matter what he claimed, he was going to be in one of two camps:

1.)

Theoretically uncomfirmable, and hence giving us no reason to

not

lynch him; or

2.)

Theoretically confirmable, hence giving us a reason to let him live another night, but which would also result in it becoming clear he has no such confirmable ability

Scum in that position have a good incentive to go with Option 2.

In theory, you may be right. But if the incentive were as strong as you make it out to be, who don't more players make "confirmable" claims to "buy them a day"? Why do scums tend to fake-claim Cop, Doc, Townie, RB (admittedly semi-confirmable, but also not generally seen as proof of alignment) instead of a role that fits Category 2?

Perhaps the biggest thing for me is Glork's lack of reaction. If

I

knew I were being set up for a lynch (or suspected as much) and/or that my role was faulty or deceptive, I would probably be

completely pissed

and do a fair amount of finger-pointing and verbal planning for future lynches (while simultaneously berating the town, naturally). I'm fairly sure Glorktown would do the same, or at least show a more emotive response than what he has shown. Instead of becoming upset, however, he seems to be more concerned with making WIFOM comments and pointing to past games.

Oh, really. Did I get pissed off and blow up in Lights Out 2 when I was being run up and could do nothing about it?
Yeah, I'm upset because I'm in a completely helpless position. How helpful do you think it is to have players get really pissed off? How often have you let your own judgment be clouded by emotion? The only emotion that I try to allow myself to feed off of is the vibe I get when I know I'm playing really well as town. That doesn't always happen, but I do generally try to keep my emotions in check.

I really couldn't care less what

you

would do in my situation. That has no bearing on what you should expect from

me

.

[Glork]

Now, if you were scum who had the ability to make my role unconfirmable and wreak general havoc by not claiming to have recieved anything, would you choose to admit that you got a gift?

Yes. I would see no point in me risking myself being lynched the next day if you were to actually turn up as you claim.

...even if neither I nor anybody else had knowledge of you (or your scumbuddy) recieving my gift?

[Glork]

How on earth is it suicide?

I have no earthly idea where (if anywhere) my gift went. No other protown player who has posted knows either. Nobody will ever know if a scumbag got the RBing and used it. As far as I can tell, it's

completely

untraceable...



...or do you know something that the rest of us don't?

[Glork]

Fact is, when a town role dies and it becomes apparent they were telling the truth, and the "nail in the coffin" (so to speak) was my own denial of having received something you had given me, I can be fairly certain that I would (at least) be interrogated about that, and my chances of being investigated would certainly go up.

Oh my god, PJ, shut up and

listen

to me for a second.




Let's suppose, hypothetically speaking, that you were a scum redirector and you made me give my gift to you. With me so far?


Now... did I know that you got the gift? No. I did not.

Now... suppose you used the gift on somebody. Do they know you used the gift? No. They do not.

Now... you've claimed not to have gotten or used any gift. Is there any way to prove that you got or used a gift? No. There is not.

Substitute any sucmbaggo player for yourself, and the result is the same. Nobody is going to be interrogated because there's no reason to interrogate anybody. That gift, whether it was used or not, is gone and lost forever into the mysterious night, unless a protown player who hasn't yet posted recieved it and confirms getting it.

[Glork]

No, my point all along is that you would have claimed nothing at all.

[Glork]

1.)

That there is a scum redirector

2.)

That the redirector is sure you are telling the truth in the first place, and hence redirecting you to myself would not simply

kill me

in my attempt to gain your "gift"

Hi. If CPE got a gift N1, pretty sure the scumgroup would have been told about it N2.

Thanks for playin' champ.

[Glork]

Yeah, I never intended Scenario A. You seem to have misinterpreted that entirely. The chronology I have in mind is as follows:

N1, CPE gets ability
D1 quicklynch
N2, CPE informs group that he got an ability; something happens to the gift intended for MoS
D2, I claim
N3, Scum

know that I give out gifts

so they

redirect me to one of them

D3, they're being silent about what happened

[Glork]

What matters here is this: your "point" necessitates the existence of a scum redirector.

And as it happens, I find the chances of you being scum

yourself

incredibly more plausible than the existence of a scum redirector.

Yes. It does necessetate that existence. It is the only possibility I can think of for what happened.

I also understand that you don't, and won't, believe me unless new information comes to surface. I'd probably be voting me, too, if I were in your shoes, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to survive.

[Glork]

Obviously, he didn't get it. So something happened to it. Just stating fact there, Elmo.

[Glork]

How could you have been redirected last night if you were invisiblized?

I said it only granted me immunity from kills, blocks, and investigations.

(That's even more baffling -- if I couldn't be blocked, there's even

less

reason for me to not have sent IH something last night. That's also why I think it must have been a redirect of some kind.)

[Glork]

I was notified after I sent in my choice, but I don't think order-of-sending-choices matters. I think all that matters is order of processing.

[Glork]

IH is actually right. It's not WIFOM because the choices are not nearly equal.

Have an elaborate and fitting claim for which anything verifiable checks out.
Have a claim for which nothing checks out, I look like an idiot and obvious liar, and put myself in a position to be very likely lynched that day.
Have a reasonably strong claim for which nothing is verifiable, but has serious potential value to the town if true.




Which of these options would you prefer the most, Elmo? Which would you want the least?

[Glork]

Hey GLork:
How did the "Gifting" thing work?
I mean, do you get the gift, see what it is, then choose who to give it to?
Do you give the gift away, and then are told what it is?

Anyway, with the deadline about 24 hours away and me in the vote lead, I guess I should claim to you idiots. I'm Troy McClure, Inventor. (I'm not actually an inventor -- I sell products to players via my infomercials.) N1 I gave an investigation to CPE and last night I gave a Doc ability to MoS.
I also have an RB, a Vig, and a Tracker ability to hand out.

It's a typical Inventor role, Pants.

[Glork]

Look at IH, Ibby, and lurkers

Honestly, at this point, I'm just waiting for everyone else to decide that I'm the play of the day. I don't like it, but I can't deny that things look rather grim.

[Glork]

Well.. why don't we lynch IH... if IH is scum with a roleblock ability, then lynching him will reveal that, at least, and at least partially clear or condemn Glork.

It's not even a roleblock ability. If he is scum, he very well could have LIED ABOUT HAVING GOTTEN MY ABILITY LAST NIGHT.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Anyway, a scum roleblocker is dead already, so it's highly unlikely that IH will also be a scum RB.

[Glork]

Skruffs: What on earth makes you think that getting an invention would show up in the death scene or playerlist? I have never known this to be the case.

[Glork]

I'll pass.

[Glork]

See V/LA

[Glork]

I"d prefer a pookie to glork lynch any day, but, it's about the numbers right now.

Elaborate?

[Glork]

'kay

So why aren't you pushing for a lynch on somebody you think is scummy? The "inevitable lynch" excuse is crap and you know it. And it's not like we're under deadline, as far as I know.

[Glork]

Yes, and no deadline means no impetus for lurkers.

In case you hadn't noticed, there's only 7 players discussing the game. Out of... much more than 7. *I* am here, but I can't generate anything with everyone basically posting "Bump".

BTW - does this mean you are back?

So why aren't you going after lurkers? Threat to lynch is impetus for lurkers.


I have full availability on weekends, although I haven't read up to date on recent posts.

[Glork]

^^^ See Glork? Another bump post.

Right. And while you're bitching and complaining about how we aren't getting anywhere due to lurkers and douchebags like Flameaxe, you're also perfectly happy putting zero effort into riling up said noncontributers, instead choosing to go after someone whom I don't believe you suspect very much.


That makes a lot of sense, champ.

FoS: Skruffs

Flameaxe, list your top four suspects and give reasons for all of them. Also, give at least one complete sentence describing each player you consider a "lurker" or "noncontributer" and how you feel about their play.

[Glork]

That's the impression that I'm getting from your recent posts. You are lamenting inactivity, asserting that nobody has incentive to post, then you're just riding the "lynch Glork" wave.

[Glork]

Fair enough. As I stated, I haven't read recent posts. I withdraw my FoS.

[Glork]

I'd be down with an IH-lynch.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: IH

if I have not yet done so.

[Glork]

It's been a hideously busy week at work. I fly home late Thursday, have a ton of work and personal stuff to take care of on Friday, but by Friday night I'm hoping to turn my full attention to my games. Sorry about the lack of posting lately.


....not that this game is high on my priority list anyway...

[Glork]

Kill IH

[Glork]

Thank goodness.

[Glork]

I figured this game was deadk long ago, but apparently Alko's taking it over.


I targeted Undo/Ibby last night, because it was obvobv they were town. Apparently the doctor did not get the picture. :/

[Glork]

CKD, Glork has given up. He's saying directly that he did the mafia kill.

You've got it half right.

I knew as soon as Undo died that I'd be lynched today.


But I promise you, I am not scum.

[Glork]

I'm saying that my track record of claimed protects (all on scums and/or the deceased, except MoS, who denied having gotten anything) would make an objective Glork want to lynch me dead, too.


I still think there are perfectly feasable explanations or my continued "failed" actions (the latest two being: IH got something from me, but he was a lying scumbag going for a Glork mislynch; and Undo got something but died, so he cannot confirm having recieved anything).

[Glork]

I'm pretty sure he did not. However, armlx, you still have yet to answer the question of what reason an SK would have to confirm the ability of somebody whose ability is already in question.

If you can provide a reasonable explanation as to why IH's confirmation would be critical to you not voting me, I'm willing to hear it. But it sounds like you're fishing for a (really bad) excuse to join the party.

[Glork]

Why? MoS didn't confirm my ability either, and he turned out to be protown. IH could very easily use that as a mitigating factor if anybody levied suspicion against him.

[Glork]

That's not even close to an answer to my question about why IH not confirming me would be so damning for him, as you claim.

I love how I defeat your general lack of logic, and you simply fall back on "well I think it's more likely that you're scum."

[Glork]

So you're more interested in securing a lynch than seeking the truth.




Good to know.

[Glork]

Troy McClure, Inventor

[Glork]

No. I don't make promises like that on demand. I guarantee on my own terms (with one specific phrase, and only when asserting that somebody is scum), and quite honestly, this game just isn't worth it. Given the complicated (or at the very least, unusual) nature of several of these roles (including the very likely existence of multiple cops, which could indicate questionable sanity), I'm willing to bet something will get or has gotten lost in translation, and that the game's integrity is likely compromised already. See Princess Bride Mini Role PMs, replacement mod note at the end of this post, and info regarding my role (Quack Nurse, unbeknownst to me) for a similar situation.


It's actually kindof a relief to know that I won't have to deal with this game anymore ever. I'm more okay with being lynched than you would probably expect.

[Glork]

No Skruffs, I use the word "Guarantee" because it starts with a G... much like my name.

[Glork]

Your misuse of the word "random" has been noted.

I have brought up the possiblity of a bus driver (probably scum, since nobody has fessed up to it, but I suppose the existence of a protown one is possible as well). You don't seem to have mentioned that at all.

I also know (and it was confirmed by the mod, through CKD) that somebody targeted me with an ability that made certain actions fail on me. This happened.... N2, I think? Who's to say that person did not cause my ability to fail on MoS by targeting him?

And I still think it's profitable for IH to lie about my role and back it up using MoS. Clearly the doubt had already fallen on me, and shrugging it off very VERY likely would have been fairly easy. You never doubted me when I explained this earlier, instead falling back on "well I still think you're probably scum."

[Glork]

Skruffs, Bus Drivers generally target X and Y, and anything that would target X targets Y instead and vice versa. If that's the case here, then I'd only have to worry about happening to target X or Y, which is pathetically little incentive to refrain from using my ability.

[Glork]

N1: Cop to creampuffeater
N2: Doc to MoS
N3: RB to IH
N4: Tracker to Undo

The only thing I have left to give is a Vig.

[Glork]

That's preposterous, CKD. If there were a protown inventor, explain to me why they would not have counterclaimed me

SEVERAL DAYS AGO

.

[Glork]

EBWOP: ...or why a recipient of other gifts would not have come out with similar information.

[Glork]

I just find it a

glaring

hole that you seem to think there's a non-Glork Inventor out there, and yet nobody has bothered to counterclaim me. Inventors are rare enough that if there were someone else with the same role, I'd have been a slam dunk long ago.

Instead, you have an Inventor whose abilities are not doing what he wants them to do, and mystery abilities coming from an unknown source. Combine that with the COMPLETE LACK OF COUNTERCLAIM, and Occam's Razor says that I'm some kind of crazy.

[Glork]

You still have yet to answer why this alleged nonglorkinventor never counterclaimed me.

[Glork]

Glork, how can I answer your question..how the fuck do I know?

Well, I thought maybe you'd have an idea, given that you seem confident enough to vote me based on your receipt of the ability. Instead, it looks like you're just shooting in the dark and hoping you hit the right team.

[Glork]

Skruffs, the lack of a counterclaim should support my role. That's why I'm pressing the issue. Since there is and will not be a counterclaim, I'm even more confident that either my role is screwy, or that somebody has screwed with my role.

[Glork]

Glork, what are your thoughts about the fact that I was given a one shot ability last night that was not from you...am I lying? you are implying that..if you think I am lying, why are you not voting me?

What JD said, basically.

Look, CKD. All I know is what other people have (or have not) claimed, what my own role PM states, and what night choices I have sent in for said role.

I believe that you are protown based on your earlier play, so I do not suspect that you are lying. I believe that you recieved an ability that doesn't match with what I've claimed. I also know that one protown person (MoS) claimed to recieve nothing when I sent them in as a target. I furthermore know that even though you've recieved a one-shot ability, nobody has come forth to claim responsibility for A) giving you that ability; or B) altering my role such that it gives you something else.

The only two logical conclusions I can draw from these three observations are:
A) My role does not work as indicated in my role PM -- I'm an "Insane Inventor," so to speak; or
B) There is a scum role that has been altering my night choices and has caused them to fail, redirect, mix up, or change altogether
There is the lesser possibility that C) some complete idiot/toolbag protown player has screwed with my role and has chosen, up to this point, not to come forward and confirm having messed with me/my night choices.


You, on the other hand, sit here stubbornly crying wolf. From your perspective, either:
Glork is correct, and something has changed things to give you an ability last night; or
Glork is lying, and somebody else gave you an ability last night

The most obvious and logical way to distinguish between these possibilities is by examining whether there has been a counter to my claim or not.

If yes, I'm much more likely a lying scumbag. If no, I'm much more likely to be telling the truth.

Here, the answer is pretty obviously "no." So why is it that you insist on pretending that the answer is "yes" and that you have god-given proof of my alleged lies?

If I thought you were a lying scumbag trying to get me lynched, I'd be voting for you already. But I do still think you're protown, and that's why I'm trying to understand your thought process. Because it makes ZERO sense whatsoever to me. I can tell that JD has a very good grasp of the situation. Skruffs appears to as well, and on top of that he is asking good probing questions of both "sides" of this dilemma to gain better information. You are, simply put, being an idiot.