Fritz's Fav Fictional Figures Faction Fest - Game over

[Blight]

Vote: Sarc

[Blight]

If it makes you feel any better, Sarc, I voted for you because of what Joshua wrote in the opening of day 2.

But, I'm not really liking Thin Man right now, so

Unvote, Vote: Thin Man

.

You think that Sarc's the best place to put a vote, but you don't vote for him yourself? Your second biggest "temptation" is voting Theo, but there's still no vote. That seems like a pretty passive play to me. You have two people that you think should be targetted, but you don't want to place your vote on them yourselves.

Also, it takes 11 to lynch, so I don't buy your "I don't want to place the 7th vote" spiel. And what's your excuse for not placing a vote on Theo?

[Blight]

Alright, that was a ton of posts to read. Flameaxe is clearly town. MoS-JDodge thing doesn't seem scummy on either side, more like a misunderstanding. I have to agree with CKD that there doesn't seem to be any particular reason why Glork has accumulated 5 votes, although I didn't go look. Nobody sticks out to me as scum at the moment, may have to read some people's posts in isolation later.

Unvote Sarc

.

I get the sinking gut feeling that this post is just a mafioso masquerading to look active.

Too much agreeing not enough isolated opinion. Not enough curiosity shall we say.

vote Cephrir

I really don't like how you started this wagon (and how people followed you with weak reasoning). It seemed pretty opportunistic, if you ask me.

Vote: theopor_COD

[Blight]

I forgot that I was voting someone else earlier.

Unvote, Vote: Thin Man

[Blight]

Bah. I'll get this right eventually.

Unvote, Vote: theopor_COD

[Blight]

I agree with Theo. Blight, Theo at least gives a small reason for his vote, where as the others just jump on without showing any reasons. Seems to me that you should be more suspicious of them.

I disagree, however, with Theo about Ceph's reaction. I see nothing scummy about it, what I see is him believing the reason given is null. I disbelieve that it is null, but I do believe that it is not enough of a tell to lynch anyone for.

I didn't like the reason Theo voted for Ceph. I thought it was weak. Ceph named a few people he didn't believe were scummy and then said that nobody stuck out as scum to him. I think that's reasonable. At that point, no one was really sticking out as scum to me either. It was a small, mostly irrelevent thing, that Theo jumped on, and I've seen scum do this before (lynch all lurkers, lynch the vote hoppers, etc.). It just seemed opportunistic to go after such a small thing and make it bigger than it was.

That's my reasoning.

I'm looking at those who jumped on the BW too, but my focus is on Theo.

[Blight]

I really don't like how you started this wagon (and how people followed you with weak reasoning). It seemed pretty opportunistic, if you ask me.

I really don't like how you're scum.

QFT

Theopor's post against Cephrir was not weak AT ALL.

Really? You voted Sarc based on day 2's opening, you voted JDodge because he said that Sarc couldn't answer any question about the day 2 opening if he doesn't know anything about it, and then you get on the Ceph BW because you "can't miss out on this wagon". Your votes have been all over the place all day. That looks like someone who's unsure or "non-committal". But, you find it scummy that no one really stands out as scum to Ceph? Prior to Ceph's post, who really stood out as scum to you and why?

[Blight]

I really don't like how you started this wagon (

and how people followed you with weak reasoning

). It seemed pretty opportunistic, if you ask me.

Vote: theopor_COD

I'm looking at those who jumped on the BW too

, but my focus is on Theo.

JDodge, if it makes you feel any better, I mentioned everybody on the BW. I didn't mention your, or anyone else's, name because it was implied. But, if it makes you feel better, yes, I'm also looking at you (JDodge), Sarc, MOS, and K-Scope.

[Blight]

Blight votes Theo for using weak reasoning on Cephrir. LATER, Blight changes his tactic and actually defends Cephrir instead - which suggests that perhaps Blight's initial vote wasn't so much to attack Theo as to get attention off of Cephrir? Interesting.

I don't remember changing my "tactics" at all. I didn't like Theo's vote. I explained why I didn't like Theo's vote and it just so happened that defending Cephrir was a result of my explanation. I guess it's kind of hard explaining why you didn't like someone's vote without somewhat defending the person they voted for.

As for the others voting me, I already explained my vote on Theo. I thought his

reasoning

to vote Cephrir was opportunistic, and I explained why. You can agree or disagree, but that's how I felt about his vote.

[Blight]

Cool.

So why haven't you claimed yet, scum? Still thinking of something?

Uh, because I only have three votes on me.

rolefishing + posts with very little, if any, substance + jumping on any BW you can = scum

Unvote, Vote: Sarcastro

[Blight]

Asking me to claim when I only have three votes on me is not role-fishing?

[Blight]

3. I'm not jumping on any bandwagon I can. I'm voting for people who are scum. And why are "three votes" suddenly a bandwagon? I could have just stayed on Cephrir if I wanted the biggest wagon, but I was convinced that you're a better lynch for today.

No, you thought Cephrir was a better lynch for today. When people didn't agree, you shifted my way.

You also voted for Jordan, I think putting her at L-3 even (and even asked her to claim on page 4 when there really wasn't much of a case against her - were you so sure she was scum then?). You jumped on Flameaxe when focus shifted to him. You voted for Cephrir when focused shifted to him. And now you shifted to me when focus moved my way.

With exception of the BW on you, those were all the major BW's in this game. But, yeah, you don't jump on any BW you can.

I'm pretty sure that, if the first BW of today wasn't on you, you would have been all over that one too.

And, what's interesting is you don't even come up with your own explanation. You just latch onto everyone else's. I may not follow the popular trend, but at least I have my own explanation for voting for certain people (even if most people don't agree).

[Blight]

2. I think I've made it clear why you and Cephrir are scum. What else do you want? You're not the first person to notice that my posts are short, Blight. It's not a scumtell, at least not for me.

Also, I didn't say your posts are short. I said they lacked any kind of substance. No, you haven't made it clear why Ceph and I are so clearly scum. You just rode Theo and Ibby's explanations.

Here's you reasonings:

Unvote, Vote: Cephrir

Hey Skruffs. Help me lynch the fence-sitting scum.

I really don't like how you started this wagon (and how people followed you with weak reasoning). It seemed pretty opportunistic, if you ask me.

I really don't like how you're scum.

I notice that Cephrir is still alive. This distresses me greatly.

I'm voting UA still?

Unvote, Vote: Blight

So what you're saying is that you're Cephrir's scumbuddy, yes?

Cephrir is today's lynch; Blight is tomorrow's. Pay attention.

Eh, I can accept a Blightwagon. Cephrirscum dies tomorrow, then.

Unvote, Vote: Blight

Cool.

So why haven't you claimed yet, scum? Still thinking of something?

Feel free to start bussing Blight any time now.

That's your whole arguement against us.

Okay, wow, I didn't realise that people had so much trouble understanding what role-fishing is.

Role-fishing is not asking for a claim. Role-fishing is trying to subtly get role information. I'm asking for a claim because I'm being overly-agressive and overly-confident. It's a playstyle. I don't actually expect to get a claim until a few more people vote for Blight. Is this difficult to understand?

Why are you voting for me, Yagami? Would you like to explain why scum would be more likely to ask for a claim at three votes, for any reason either conscious or subconscious? You can't just vote for someone based on what, the fact that you think asking for a claim right now is bad play? Why would I do it as scum? What do I gain? This isn't proof that I'm not scum, obviously, but it's pretty clearly a null tell. I'm going to act like this whether I'm scum or town, so you're better off actually looking for real tells.

You were fishing for a claim. Whether it was subtle or not isn't really the point. Why would you make it so blatant? I don't know. Maybe you realize that my join date says 2007 and you figured I'd be stupid enough to let it slip. Maybe you thought three votes would be enough to pressure me. I don't know why you'd be so blatant. The fact is you are.

[Blight]

I can't figure out if Sarc is scum or just being a pain in the ass. I do think he's pretty funny right now, though.

Sarc, can you explain why you keep asking for claims? Is this something new you've adopted or a playstyle transition of yours that I've missed? .. got any examples of where you've done this before?

I'm being overly-aggressive. It's nothing all that new for me, although I might be doing it more in this game than usual. Probably just because it's Fritzler's game and the page five lynch was inspiring.

It's not aggressive at all because you're not going to get anything out of it, unless you think that I'm going to slip up and actually tell you. That's what makes it scummy.

I can't honestly figure out why a pro-town player would want someone to claim so early? How's that pro-town?

You're right, I didn't outline exactly why you're scum. I just figured it would be obvious that your extraordinarily weak attack on Theo was scummy. Clearly it's not obvious to you, but it was obvious enough to everyone else that they didn't bother to question me about it.

You simply calling me scum didn't make it obvious. You left it vague so that someone else can swoop in and fill in an explanation for you. Either you couldn't come up with a strong case against me, you didn't want to put yourself out there for fear that someone would consider your analysis scummy (like Ibby did with me), or you're just lazy.

I'm going to go out on the limb and say that you didn't feel like putting your analysis out there because you didn't want people to start looking at you. Stating I'm scum without adding anything else is just enough to get people to look at me without having them look at you too. That too is scummy.

[Blight]

It's not aggressive at all because you're not going to get anything out of it, unless you think that I'm going to slip up and actually tell you. That's what makes it scummy.

I can't honestly figure out why a pro-town player would want someone to claim so early? How's that pro-town?

Make up your mind. Do I know that I'm not going to get anything out of it or don't I? You seems to alternate between assumptions as it suits you.

I don't expect to get a claim yet. I'd be really quite surprised if I did. And yes, it is being aggressive, because it's emphasising that you're scum and it's harrassing you into making a mistake like the one you did by voting for me for a bullshit reason.

How is it not pro-town? I never claimed it was a pro-town tell, I claimed it was a null tell. Don't put words into my mouth. And what if you had claimed? Well, I wouldn't have exactly been crushed. I plan to get you lynched anyway, which will inevitably result in a claim by you (or a foolish refusal to claim). I'm certain enough in my own judgment that I don't require you to be at lynch-1 to know that I want you dead.

How is it a null-tell if it's clearly not pro-town? How is it being aggressive it you don't expect a claim? If you think I'm scum, obviously you know I'm not going to be pressured to claim at three votes. The only reason I could think someone would claim so early is if they were a newbish townie trying to prove you wrong. And that's why scum would push for a claim at 3 votes, not town.

I'm going to go out on the limb and say that you didn't feel like putting your analysis out there because you didn't want people to start looking at you. Stating I'm scum without adding anything else is just enough to get people to look at me without having them look at you too. That too is scummy.

Sorry, the limb broke. You've now crashed into the ground.

If I didn't want people to look at me, why would I constantly post that I want you and Cephrir dead? Your assertions here are ridiculous, and it is incredibly obvious that you're desperately looking for reasons that I'm scummy. I'm not at all afraid of people paying attention to me. Hell, I want people to pay

more

attention to me, because I want them to lynch the two scum I've found.

To answer your original question, it's laziness combined with the fact that I don't feel the need to make a case. I felt it was obvious what I didn't like about your post, and I was ready to explain it to anyone who asked. I'm still ready to explain it, and I'm still sure that you're scum.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

The reason I don't buy you being lazy is because you've spent more time defending yourself now then you did trying to build a case against me with your whole "I don't like how you're scum" arguement.

And, no, your "why isn't Ceph dead yet" or "Please claim, Blightscum" arguements aren't exactly enough to put yourself out there. If you're unwilling to actually back up your "he's clearly scum" claim with anything more than "I thought it was obvious" then that shows a fear of actually putting yourself out there. And, from what I've seen, that is a scum tell.

Hell, you weren't even willing to put a vote on me until others chose to. And that completely contradicts your whole "I'm being aggressive" statement.

And even now you continue to push for a claim when I only have three votes even though you don't expect it to come. And, even though you don't expect me to claim, you think I should be lynched for not claiming. But, no, you're not really fishing for a role-claim.

[Blight]

This works better if you actually respond to me, rather than making the same points over and over. Maybe you didn't get it clearly enough. I'll try to go point-by-point this time.

How is it a null-tell if it's clearly not pro-town? How is it being aggressive it you don't expect a claim? If you think I'm scum, obviously you know I'm not going to be pressured to claim at three votes. The only reason I could think someone would claim so early is if they were a newbish townie trying to prove you wrong. And that's why scum would push for a claim at 3 votes, not town.

Um, do you understand what "null tell" means? I'll give you a hint: it doesn't mean "pro-town". It means that it doesn't say anything about my alignment.

I'm not sure you understand what a null-tell is. If it's clearly not pro-town, how could you honestly say it's a null-tell? What's the opposite of pro-town?

The reason I don't buy you being lazy is because you've spent more time defending yourself now then you did trying to build a case against me with your whole "I don't like how you're scum" arguement.

Or maybe I'm just more interested in defending myself while explaining to everyone what obvious scum you are. It's a little like a trap, actually. I coast along Fritzler-like until you pull off a bullshit attack, when I pop out of nowhere and devour you and your nonsense arguments alive.

The only explanation you've made is that I'm "obviously scum". Hate to break it to you, but that's not an explanation. It's a statement with no real backing. You only just a couple posts ago said that my case against Theo was weak. Everything else is "You're obviously sum. Claim, please."

And, no, your "why isn't Ceph dead yet" or "Please claim, Blightscum" arguements aren't exactly enough to put yourself out there. If you're unwilling to actually back up your "he's clearly scum" claim with anything more than "I thought it was obvious" then that shows a fear of actually putting yourself out there. And, from what I've seen, that is a scum tell.

Look, there's no way you're going to convince anyone I'm not putting myself out there. I've been constantly attention-seeking all game. I have absolutely no fear of putting myself out there. The fact that you selectively quote me saying that it was obvious and not all the specific points I've made against you says something, I think.

Your case against Jordan:

Unvote, Vote: JordanA24

Bandwagon time! Die scum die!

Less whining, more claiming.

Oh, I'm sorry, did you want to just pause the bandwagon and have a tea party? Or did you just want us to kill you so that you don't have to think up a fakeclaim?

Given how fast this wagon developed, Jordan, it would look very very good for you if you gave a convincing claim right now, because scum would definitely want to have more time to think up a convincing claim in this sort of a theme game. So yeah, claim now or die.

Tick tock, Jordan. The window for convincing me you're not frantically trying to think of a fakeclaim right now is rapidly closing.

Your case against Flameaxe:

Axelrod was awesome in Worst Role Evar. I'm not sure I like PJ's reasoning that much, though, since I could totally see Fritzler putting in a role that forces someone to bandwagon or somesuch.

Nevertheless,

Unvote, Vote: Flameaxe

I wouldn't mind forcing him to claim.

Your case against Ceph:

Unvote, Vote: Cephrir

Hey Skruffs. Help me lynch the fence-sitting scum.

The point is to lynch Cephrir.

Duh.

I think we'd be more productive lynching Sarcastro or Glork at this point. Probably more Sarcastro, but either way we could make a lynch today that would provide useful information, unlike that Day 1 lynch.

Lynching Sarc is never productive.

I'm kind of ambivalent about lynching Glork. I'd rather lynch Cephrirscum, though.

I notice that Cephrir is still alive. This distresses me greatly.

I'm voting UA still?

Unvote, Vote: Blight

So what you're saying is that you're Cephrir's scumbuddy, yes?

Cephrir is today's lynch; Blight is tomorrow's. Pay attention.

Your case against me:

I really don't like how you started this wagon (and how people followed you with weak reasoning). It seemed pretty opportunistic, if you ask me.

I really don't like how you're scum.

Eh, I can accept a Blightwagon. Cephrirscum dies tomorrow, then.

Unvote, Vote: Blight

Cool.

So why haven't you claimed yet, scum? Still thinking of something?

Why isn't Blight dead yet? This town has reallly dropped the ball since Day 1.

Feel free to start bussing Blight any time now.

2. I think I've made it clear why you and Cephrir are scum. What else do you want? You're not the first person to notice that my posts are short, Blight. It's not a scumtell, at least not for me.

And finally an actual reason. There's still no explanation why my vote on Theo was weak, but at least you say it is weak.

You're right, I didn't outline exactly why you're scum. I just figured it would be obvious that your extraordinarily weak attack on Theo was scummy. Clearly it's not obvious to you, but it was obvious enough to everyone else that they didn't bother to question me about it.

Yeah, you've really put yourself out there.

Hell, you weren't even willing to put a vote on me until others chose to. And that completely contradicts your whole "I'm being aggressive" statement.

Are you goddamn serious?

Did you somehow not notice that I was busy trying to get Cephrir lynched?

I considered Cephrir a better lynch until Ibby convinced me to lynch you instead! Is that really so hard to understand? Stop coming up with these crap reasons! It's incredibly clear that you've decided to vote for me first and thought up the reasons afterwards.

Maybe you and I saw different things. I saw you say Cephrir was a better lynch, wait to notice that no one else joined the Ceph wagon, and then you jumped on a fresh BW that you thought may pick up speed after Ibby and Glork voted me.

And even now you continue to push for a claim when I only have three votes even though you don't expect it to come. And, even though you don't expect me to claim, you think I should be lynched for not claiming. But, no, you're not really fishing for a role-claim.

Hey, guess what? You should

stop making shit up

! I think you should be lynched for not claiming?

Bullshit!

I never said anything of the sort.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

Okay, what part did I make up? The part where you want to lynch me for not claiming fast enough or the part where you think I should be lynched for not claiming fast enough?

And it's not goddamn fishing! Do you seriously not understand that? Are you kidding me? Is this some sort of a joke?

It's not rolefishing!

It's a blatant demand that I know won't be fulfilled but that I wish to make on principle regardless, because it shows the extent of my certainty that you're scum. Holy fuck this is frustrating.

You ask me to claim. You think I should be lynched because I'm not "thinking up a fakeclaim fast enough". But, yeah, you're not actually expecting something to come of it.

I'll tell you this much, Sarc; you, especially, aren't going to like my claim.

[Blight]

Dear Blight,

A null tell is a tell that isn't indicative of alignment

either way

.

<3,
Ibby

Okay, but then how can asking me to claim with only 3 votes be considered a null-tell?

How can that be a null-tell but someone not seeing anyone stand out as scum earlier in the day be a scum-tell? Isn't it easy enough to dismiss every scum-tell as a null-tell since town can easily make the same statements or mistakes as scum can?

And, I'm not just signalling out his role-fishing (or whatever the hell he wants to call it). I made three points against him when I voted for him (even though he has it in his mind that I voted first without adding any substance - which is actually what he does). Should I dismiss all three points as being null-tells?

[Blight]

The only explanation you've made is that I'm "obviously scum". Hate to break it to you, but that's not an explanation. It's a statement with no real backing. You only just a couple posts ago said that my case against Theo was weak. Everything else is "You're obviously sum. Claim, please."

That's great, except that you have an incredibly selective memory. How about this:

So, yeah. You've blatantly mischaracterised me in an attempt to fabricate a reason to get your vote off of someone you now realise was not a good target at all and onto someone you think you can lynch more easily. Good luck with that.

First off, that was after your vote on me, which actually shows that

you're

the one that voted for me and are coming up with reasons afterwards.

Second off, the whole post seemed more like you defending yourself than creating an arguement against me. Actually, the majority of your more thought out posts seem to be when you're defending yourself rather than building a case against someone else.

Thirdly, when did I mischaracterize you? You

were

fishing for a claim. Whether you call it "role-fishing" or "blatantly demanding a claim" doesn't matter. You wanted me to claim. You never made it clear why I was scum, and you even admitted that. And you have been jumping on any and every BW. So, I ask again, how did I mischaracterize you?

Okay, what part did I make up? The part where you want to lynch me for not claiming fast enough or the part where you think I should be lynched for not claiming fast enough?

What are you talking about? When did I say that? I never said I wanted to lynch you for not claiming fast enough. Again, don't put words into my mouth. And why did you repeat basically the same thing phrased two slightly different ways?

Sigh, let me quote it again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again, in case you missed it the last couple times.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

How am I putting words in your mouth, again?

You ask me to claim. You think I should be lynched because I'm not "thinking up a fakeclaim fast enough". But, yeah, you're not actually expecting something to come of it.

Yes, I demanded a claim. No, I never said anything even resembling your second assertion. Please stop twisting my words, or, if you honestly think that's what I said, please read more carefully.

Please refer to the quotes above. And, if you keep denying it, please refer to the quotes above. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Oh yeah, and you

still

haven't given me a good reason I would do it as scum. Because I actually think Blight is going to claim? Because I'm desperate to get a claim from Blight specifically? Because I need the claim right away for my special daykilling roll? Why wouldn't I just wait until a bigger bandwagon builds up on Blight or someone else?

Seriously, people, think about

why

scum would do something before you vote someone for no reason. I demanded a claim because I'm being an overly-aggressive bastard, like Ibby said. It still says nothing about my alignment.

Also, I just re-read my posts and realised that I didn't actually even ask for a claim until Blight accused me of doing so. Blight's initial vote on me was simply an overreaction to me asking him why he hadn't claimed yet, which is even more obviously not a real attempt to get him to claim. Just thought that was worth pointing out.

I've already given you reasons why it's scummy and not pro-town. Truth is, we don't know why you'd want me to claim so early. It's just a big WIFOM arguement waiting to happen. But, I just don't see any reason for a pro-town player to want someone to claim so early.

And, yeah, you asked me why I haven't claimed yet. Now you're just getting nit-picky. The phrase still implies that you want me to claim, and you've even said that you "demanded that I claim". I know you're going to say that I'm putting words in your mouth again, so I'll save you the time and just bring up this quote now.

Yes, I demanded a claim

. No, I never said anything even resembling your second assertion. Please stop twisting my words, or, if you honestly think that's what I said, please read more carefully.

I only see scummy reasons to ask for the claim.

That just means you are either very closed minded, or scum. In fact, Sudden Pressure to claim for little reason is probably the most pro-town thing anyone can ever do ever.

Why?

It catches the scum in question off guard, and any hesitancy can be directly translated to "I haven't come up with a good fakeclaim yet".

That's ridiculous. So, you ask someone to claim to "catch them off guard" and if they hesitate you can chalk it up to "not coming up with a good fake claim yet"? I have an idea. How about you and Sarc claim? And, if you guys "hesitate" we lynch you.

[Blight]

What do you mean why don't people do it? It is done, scum role fish to find power roles.

Yes, they do. The only problem is that

I wasn't rolefishing

.

Just for the record, I never rolefish as scum (or town, obviously). My personal philosophy for playing scum is to always act as much like I would as town as is possible (with obvious exceptions, such as hammering townies in LyLo). I defy you to find a single example of me rolefishing. Yes, I know, it's not really proof of anything, but I figured I should tell you all the same.

The only reason I seem to be repeating myself is because you don't seem to get it. Like Yagami said, you

were

role-fishing. Call me stupid or retarded all you'd like, but continuously denying something that you

obviously

did is just making you look dumb, not me.

There's a difference between adding more reasons that someone you're voting is scummy and inventing justifications for a previous vote. I'm doing the former; you're doing the latter.

You didn't give

any

reason when you voted for me. On the other hand, I gave

three

reasons when I voted for you...but you still think I voted for you before giving a reason?

Second off, the whole post seemed more like you defending yourself than creating an arguement against me. Actually, the majority of your more thought out posts seem to be when you're defending yourself rather than building a case against someone else.

No, really? I seemed like I was defending myself? Maybe that's because I

was

. But part of my defense includes pointing out that all of your attacks are self-serving nonsense.

My point is you haven't made any substance-filled post unless you're defending yourself. All, or at least most, of your votes against someone have lacked any explanation other than bandwagoning. I'm not surprised at this point that you missed the point, though.

Thirdly, when did I mischaracterize you? You

were

fishing for a claim. Whether you call it "role-fishing" or "blatantly demanding a claim" doesn't matter. You wanted me to claim. You never made it clear why I was scum, and you even admitted that. And you have been jumping on any and every BW. So, I ask again, how did I mischaracterize you?

Okay, I'm not going over this again, because you're just being wilfully stupid at this point. I've explained what I was doing multiple times, and you're just ignoring me. Go read my posts. If you don't believe me, fine, but don't act like I haven't addressed this multiple times.

Sigh, let me quote it again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again, in case you missed it the last couple times.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

How am I putting words in your mouth, again?

Oh sweet zombie Jesus, there are so many sarcastic barbs that come to mind. How about this: you're putting words in my mouth

by interpreting the sentence in an absolutely retarded way

. At this point, I'm pretty sure you just have poor reading comprehension, so obviously this doesn't make you scummier.

Let me try to explain what I meant. Actually, that's difficult, because I don't think I can simplify it any more. How about this: "Blight is scum. Therefore, we should lynch him. In fact, we should lynch him quickly. In addition, because he is scum, he will need to think of a fakeclaim. If we had lynched him faster, he would not have had as much time to think of a fakeclaim. At this point, because he has already had a large amount of time to think of a fakeclaim, we should simply try to lynch him as fast as possible to try to prevent him from having any more time to think of one."

Is that sufficiently simplified for you? Now can you please explain how in the hell you managed to get "[Blight] should be lynched because [he's] not thinking up a fakeclaim fast enough" from that?

LMAO. You can be "sarcastic" all you want. The meaning of that post was clear. It's as clear as "why hasn't Blight claimed yet". Unfortunately, somehow to you it's open to interpretations.

I've already given you reasons why it's scummy and not pro-town. Truth is, we don't know why you'd want me to claim so early. It's just a big WIFOM arguement waiting to happen. But, I just don't see any reason for a pro-town player to want someone to claim so early.

And, yeah, you asked me why I haven't claimed yet. Now you're just getting nit-picky. The phrase still implies that you want me to claim, and you've even said that you "demanded that I claim". I know you're going to say that I'm putting words in your mouth again, so I'll save you the time and just bring up this quote now.

No, actually, you haven't explained why it's scummy, whereas I think I've given a pretty persuasive argument for it being a null tell. Neither you nor Yagami have given any sort of logical reason for why, as scum, I would perpetrate this insane plan you two have dreamed up for me.

If you think I'm scum, obviously you know I'm not going to be pressured to claim at three votes. The only reason I could think someone would claim so early is if they were a newbish townie trying to prove you wrong. And that's why scum would push for a claim at 3 votes, not town.

Maybe you realize that my join date says 2007 and you figured I'd be stupid enough to let it slip. Maybe you thought three votes would be enough to pressure me.

Two times I explained why it's scummy and not pro-town. You've yet to give a good reason why it's a null-tell. And, no; the fact that you supposedly do it in every game isn't good enough.

And no, Blight, I wouldn't say that you're putting words in my mouth when you actually quote things I said. See, because those are my words. You're obviously capable of quoting me, you just need to learn that when you make up the quotes, you can't attribute them to me.

LMAO. Please show me one time when I made up any of your quotes. You can't go back to saying those weren't your words because they

were

.

Seriously, Blight, you lose. Your attacks are pure nonsense. Apparently quoting me and repeating the same bullshit I've already torn apart is an effective strategy in your mind, but I strongly doubt that many people here feel the same way.

You haven't torn apart anything or won anything. Quit being so full of yourself. LOL

The reason I'm not lynched yet is because you haven't proven or disproven anything. You've just prattled on with nonsense, trying to claim you haven't said half the things you've said, and then follow up with "why hasn't Blight been lynched yet". I honestly don't know how this strategy hasn't worked for you yet.

[Blight]

So what, you've given up? Because all I see is you insulting me and making blatantly false statements. I'm sick of all this quoting, so I'm going to try to keep this short and concise.

You have not adequately explained why my talk of claims was scummy. Don't assert that you have unless you can show me a quote of you answering the same questions I asked to Yagami. Do not try to redefine the questions unless you give a reason for why mine are unfair.

Yes, I'm giving up. You don't seem to read anything I write. I've given you two reasons why scum would do something like that. I also told you that it just opens up a whole WIFOM arguement, which it did. I don't feel like repeating myself, but I will add a third, if you'd like. You asked Jordan to claim (at a reasonable L-3, I'll admit) and got a claim. You asked Flameaxe to claim (I can't remember the votes on him at the time), and you got a claim from him. Two times you asked for a claim; two times you got it. Saying that you didn't expect me to claim is ridiculous when you already successfully forced out two claims in two days. And even if you really didn't expect a claim, that's not what we see when you

asked

demanded that I claim. We can't read your mind or your intentions; we read what's right there for us to read. There's nothing stopping you from making up a BS excuse later and hoping we'd buy it.

I've given you three reasons why scum might ask for a claim so early, and you haven't given one satisfactory reason that someone town-aligned would. How could there be actual reasons for scum to do this, no reasons for town to do this, and have it still be a null-tell. I agree with Ibby that I don't believe in scum-tells because town tend to do things that could be considered scum tells. But, there are things that look scummy to me, and "demanding" me to claim with only 3 votes looks scummy. It may not be a "scum-tell", but it does look scummy. And sorry if I'm not going to take your word for it that it's a "null-tell".

You say you do this in all your games, but I've only been in one game with you where you were replaced. I don't know your playstyle, only what I've seen from this game. And, what I've seen is that you like to coast by while posting little, if any, substance (until I pushed you), you like to throw out wild scum accusations with no explanation, and you like to jump on any BW you can. That's what I've seen in

this

game, and that's why I'm voting for you.

And now I'm giving up because you're just going to read this as being "nonsense" or BS or whatever, or you're just not going to read it at all. Anything else I say is just going to be me repeating myself.

Let's just lynch Sarcscum and get on with the game.

(See what I did there? )

[Blight]

Blight, you're still refusing to address the questions I asked Yagami. Do you need me to go back and quote them for you? You keep saying that it looks scummy and that it makes sense for scum to want a claim, but you don't actually address the specifics of why I would do it as scum. You keep saying you do, but you don't. Saying that it creates a "WiFoM" argument is pointless, because the correct conclusion in that case is that it can't be used as either a scum or a town tell, which is what I'm saying.

You don't even have to answer my questions, Blight, but you do have to stop pretending that they don't exist. If you want to argue that the questions are unfair, do so. But address them somehow.

Right now you're just insisting that it's scummy because scum would theoretically want a claim. Yes, I agree that scum would theoretically want a claim. You have to address why I would choose to go about it in that extraordinarily ineffective manner, though. The burden of proof is on you, Blight, and you haven't done anything but assert things without solid reasoning.

I just looked back at your questions for Yagami, and, no; they're not fair questions. We can't get in your head. We don't know your reasons. Maybe you just thought that I'd be any easier nut to crack than Cephrir. Maybe you saw the BW for Ceph slow down while there was suddenly more pressure against me. Maybe there was no reason at all and you just blurted it out, hoping I'd let it slide or just claim like a new guy should. Unfortunately, there's no way that I can know for sure what your reasons are.

But, the fact is, the

action

itself is scummy.

[Blight]

Maybe you just thought that I'd be any easier nut to crack than Cephrir. Maybe you saw the BW for Ceph slow down while there was suddenly more pressure against me. Maybe there was no reason at all and you just blurted it out, hoping I'd let it slide or just claim like a new guy should.

Three scenarios.

[Blight]

Just vote Sarc and this day will end quicker.

[Blight]

Yes. Explain it again because I thought the question was why you would leave the more established BW of Ceph to force me to claim instead. If this is wrong, then I don't know what the hell you're asking.

[Blight]

That was not the only question, Blight. Tell me - are you capable of using that handy fuction that allows you to go to previous pages and read past posts? Because you're certainly not acting like it. If you are seriously incapable of finding the questions, just tell me and I'll quote them for you.

Seriously, does nobody else find this ridiculous? Blight has decided that a single random comment was scummy (obviously based more on OMGUS and looking for an easy target than anything) and is now proposing farfetched theories to explain why it's scummy. Come on, people, can you not see what's right in front of you?

Blight is scum. I guarantee it.

Yes. I'm incapable of using that function. I already told you to explain to me whatever question seems to be left unanswered because you seem to be going on and on about this "that's not the question, that's not the question". Then tell me what I'm not answering rather than continuously doing this song and dance.

And, you role-fishing isn't the only point against you. I've given a number of arguments against you. You've done nothing to show I'm scum. Maybe you should figure out how to use that function you're telling me about because all my other points seem to be going over your head.

On second thought, I already said I'm done and now I mean it. I gave you a chance to tell me what I'm not answering and you refused to re-ask it. So, now I no longer care.

I don't care to guess your reasonings anymore. How the hell am I or anyone else supposed to predict your reasonings? We can't. That's not what's scummy. It's your

actions

that are scummy. We don't know your reasonings and you having us try to guess your reasonings is a waste of time. It's

your

job to give us an explanation to your actions, and so far you haven't given me one that I feel good about.

I'm done, Sarc. I've said all I need to say against you. If people decide I'm scum over you, then so be it. But, look at the votes, Sarc. That's 6 votes on you and two votes on me. So, let me ask you, why haven't you claimed yet?

[Blight]

Yes. Someone claiming would, in fact, give me a power role to kill if I were scum. Now please explain why I would be interested in making

Blight specifically

claim

as soon as possible

while he

doesn't even have enough votes to justify a claim

. And also why the best method for accomplishing this would be flat-out asking him to claim.

Yeah, I thought so.

This would be a good place to start, Blight.

I've explained perfectly well what I was doing. I'm sorry that you just can't accept my explanation, but insisting that my actions are scummy but that it doesn't matter why I did them - that's patently ridiculous, Blight. How can my actions be scummy if

I didn't do them for a scummy reason

?

Because we don't know your reasons (or your reasons just aren't satisfactory - your whole reason being "I didn't mean it"), and you asking us to give you a reason is just stupid. It's like a mother drowning her kid in the bathtub. We may never know why a mother would choose to do that, but the fact is her

actions

are criminal.

Your

actions

are scummy. And, no, I'm not just talking about you

asking

demanding me to claim with three votes. I'm talking about all these.

I don't know your playstyle, only what I've seen from this game. And, what I've seen is that you like to coast by while posting little, if any, substance (until I pushed you), you like to throw out wild scum accusations with no explanation, and you like to jump on any BW you can. That's what I've seen in

this

game, and that's why I'm voting for you.

Isolated, these may not be as scummy, but add them all together and there's definately a case. The fact that you keep on ignoring them and focus in on one thing makes you look even worse.

So, why haven't you claimed yet?

[Blight]

I've already explained why I think it's scummy. I've given you 6 different scenerios in why it could be scummy. You haven't given one single reason why a pro-town player would do it, except "if I was scum, why would I do this?" (which I've already answered). I've already suggested reasons you'd want to make me claim, and then you throw them out as not answering your question when that's exactly what they're doing.

And, no, man. My job isn't to justify your actions when I think your actions are scummy. That's your job. And, so far, your only answers are "I didn't do this", "I didn't mean this", or "why would I do this if I'm scum".

Meanwhile, you're only arguement that I'm scum is that "Blight is obviously scum", an arguement you've used on almost half the players in this game.

And, no, I'm not comparing you to a murderer. I'm comparing you to someone who did something wrong...someone who did something that doesn't help society (or, in this case, the town). All we know is the actions are real. The reasons are speculations.

[Blight]

And, no, man. My job isn't to justify your actions when I think your actions are scummy.

No, your job is to

explain why my actions are scummy

. You

haven't done this

, Blight. You just keep coming up with bullshit excuses not to argue your point.

I've explained several times why your actions are scummy. I'm tired of repeating myself.

[Blight]

Yeah, except that your "explanations" consist of unrealistic scenarios in which I act like an idiot for no reason. I'm sorry if that's your opinion of me, Blight, but it's most definitely incorrect.

Maybe you just answered your own question.

[Blight]

How can anyone actually doubt at this point that Blight is scum? It's mind-boggling to me that anyone could imagine him to be pro-town.

I guess the arguement "he's obviously scum" hasn't gotten you as far as you thought it would.

I've answered all your questions. Read back. Find them.

I'm tired of repeating myself.

[Blight]

Oh, you mean the part where you claimed to answer them but didn't? Yeah, I enjoyed that part too.

I'm getting sick of this game. Call me when you guys come to your senses and lynch Blight.

Yet another solid case against me...

[Blight]

Yet another solid case against me...

Yet another totally worthless post that completely avoids actually making a case. The difference between us, Blight, is that I made a case in the past, whereas you've only made excuses.

LMAO. Okay...

[Blight]

I'm tired of repeating myself.

[Blight]

I think Blight needs to put up or shut up. Sarc may be completely aggressive here, but Blight is also being an ass and not actually answering everything. They're both at fault.

I'm being an ass because he started being an ass first. Yeah, I know it's third grade BS, but whatever. Talking to him is just frustrating the hell out of me.

I've answered all his questions. Feel free to show me a question that I haven't answered and what's missing from my answer.

I've stated my case against him, and he hasn't shown anything against me.

Quite frankly, I'm just tired of repeating myself. Feel free to follow Sarc's "Blight's obviously scum logic" and lynch me if you want. Lynching me is a mistake, but me just saying that is not going to matter.

[Blight]

I'm looking at those who jumped on the BW too, but my focus is on Theo.

JDodge, if it makes you feel any better, I mentioned everybody on the BW. I didn't mention your, or anyone else's, name because it was implied. But, if it makes you feel better, yes, I'm also looking at you (JDodge), Sarc, MOS, and K-Scope.

Okay, so let's hear about those other people you were going to look at, besides Sarc. I'm quite tired of that argument and feel like it's going no where. You've never really responded to the issue of you going after Theo for his reasoning but not really following up on the BWers as you said you would.

I said I'm also looking at those that decided to jump on the Ceph BW, meaning I'm going to keep an eye on them. I guess it wasn't clear, but that's what I meant. If you want, I'll do an analysis on them later. But, I won't have time tonight.

Yet you keep repeating yourself about being tired of repeating yourself...

Believe me, the irony is not lost on me.

[Blight]

Do you believe it is more opportunistic for someone to vote based on what you consider 'weak' reasoning, or for people to bandwagon behind a 'weakly reasoned' vote?

I'd say jumping on the BW is worse, but I've seen more times than not town jumping on a weak BW while a scum member started the whole thing by pointed out something small and making it bigger than it is, similar to someone deciding to use the old "lynch all lurkers" logic to get a BW going in that direction.

I was honestly in the same boat as Ceph because no one immediately stood out as scum to me either, considering our biggest leads so far were Jordan, a five-page lynch; Sarc because of something written in the opening of day 2; and Flameaxe, until he claimed. So, when Theo decided to point it out and vote Ceph, it gave me a bad feeling. It seemed opportunistic to me that he'd vote someone who was currently undecided on who was scum when, really, no one was sticking out as a good candidate for scum.

I realize that it wasn't a strong theory, as there hasn't been many strong theories in this game to date, and it was

just a theory

, but I just got a bad feeling from it.

Like I said, though, I'm keeping an eye on all of them (JDodge, MOS, Sarc, K-Scope, and Theo), but, unfortunately, I can't vote for all five so I chose to vote for Theo.

[Blight]

Blight: Right so you voted for Theo because you felt his reasoning was weak and opportunistic (I disagree btw). However, your vote on him was based on 'just a theory' and a 'bad feeling'. Huh.

Yes. It's also something I've done when I was mafia in another game. I went after someone who was undecided because she made an easy target...hence why I think it's opportunistic.

You're free to disagree. It's just a gut feeling (not everything in this game is based purely on logic), but I wanted to at least put it out there rather than stay silent about it.

[Blight]

Nah, not scum Sarc, just horribly disinterested in this game right now.

QFT

I fully agree with these statements

I used to look forward to reading this thread. Then Sarc and Blight started talking.

Yeah, my bad. I didn't realize I'd be opening Pandora's box by pointing at Sarc. I'm done with him, though. Arguing with him forces you to go around in circles and it gets real boring real quick.

There are God knows how many pages of this stuff. People can either make their own opinion or skip it entirely. I don't see a point in continuing the arguement with him.

[Blight]

Sarc = obv town
Blight = obv scum

I say the latter based on in-thread evidence, not all of which has been pointed out (though I might have missed some in the sea of Sarc posts):
1. I didn't like the Thin Man vote, and how easily he abandoned it.

Really? Sarc's been jumping on and off wagons all game with little to no reason, but I "abandon" my Thin Man vote

with

a reason and it's scummy? How can a guy who's "obviously town" get away with it but it's enough to consider someone else scummy?

2. I didn't like the Theopor_COD vote (as has been pointed out by several people).

Fine. I'll accept that. Like I said, my reasoning wasn't very strong and it was more of a gut feeling than anything else.

Besides, I voted for Theo because I didn't like

his

vote.

3. I didn't like the way he blew up in Sarcs face.

I didn't blow up in Sarc's face. He blew up in mine...just like he blew up at Yagami...just like he blew up at CKD.

And, I definately didn't blow up the whole "role-fishing" thing. Sarc did. Role-fishing (or asking for a claim) was just one on the list of reasons I chose to vote for him (unlike him, who voted for me because Ceph's BW wasn't going anywhere). But, he kept coming back to the role-fishing point.

I did feel, however, that it was a point worth bringing up (along with my other reasons). To say that it is acceptable to ask someone to claim with only three votes (when 11 is needed for a lynch) is ridiculous. What if I was still pretty new to this game? What if, under the pressure of three consecutive votes against me, I decided to claim? Would it still have been acceptable?

[Blight]

Sorry for not being around for a while. Been busy with school and work. I'm sure Sarc missed me.

Really? Sarc's been jumping on and off wagons all game with little to no reason, but I "abandon" my Thin Man vote with a reason and it's scummy? How can a guy who's "obviously town" get away with it but it's enough to consider someone else scummy?

First of all, "someone else does it as well" is not a valid defense.

If you accuse someone of being scummy due to a certain action, yet a "pro-town" player is doing the same action, then, yeah; it seems like a valid defense. To me, it doesn't make sense.

But, I do appreciate you clearing up

why

my switching votes is scummy. Although, I'm not quite sure how Sarc is off the hook when his votes have been far more erratic than mine and with little actual reason.

The reason I switched from Thin-Man to Theo was as simple as I thought my vote would be best on Theo. Yes, a few pages after my initial vote of Thin-Man, I was starting to have my doubts about him. I didn't realize that I needed to explicitly state that I feel one person is more scummy than another when changing my vote.

And, I definately didn't blow up the whole "role-fishing" thing. Sarc did. Role-fishing (or asking for a claim) was just one on the list of reasons I chose to vote for him (unlike him, who voted for me because Ceph's BW wasn't going anywhere). But, he kept coming back to the role-fishing point.

Then why did he have to "role-fish" you first before you decided to vote for him? You didn't seem to be bothered by his "posts with very little, if any, substance" and him "jumping on any BW [he] can" before he did.

Okay. When is it okay to vote for someone, and at what point does the statute of limitations expire? Like I said, bandwagoning, itself, isn't all that scummy. Same with adding little content to your posts or role-fishing. They may

hint

at someone being scum, but, seperately, it's not a strong case. Adding all these elements together, however, is a stronger case. When I voted for him, not only did he have all these elements but it also became an ongoing pattern for him. But, at what point should I have brought this up? The first time he asked for a role-claim? The second time he decided to jump on a bandwagon? When is it sufficient enough to vote for him and at what point is it too late for me to bring this up?

I did feel, however, that it was a point worth bringing up (along with my other reasons). To say that it is acceptable to ask someone to claim with only three votes (when 11 is needed for a lynch) is ridiculous. What if I was still pretty new to this game? What if, under the pressure of three consecutive votes against me, I decided to claim? Would it still have been acceptable?

Townies don't feel pressured by three votes when it is 11 to lynch. Not even new ones. Scum does. It would have been very acceptable if you had claimed, because we'd know you're lying.

That's a pretty absolute statement, and one I don't agree with. It took one vote for Flameaxe to claim bandwagoning was part of his role. It took two votes and an FOS for Flameaxe to fully claim. According to your statement above, he's lying. Why aren't you voting for him? Why haven't you voted for him at all today since your above statement says that he has to be lying?

There are parts of my case against you that you didn't adress. Any particular reason for that?

I've touched on all your stated points against me, except for my "soft claim". I'm not sure what "talking about your role properly or not at all" means, but I chose not to talk about it at all. And, I even agree with you, maybe I shouldn't have brought it up at all. But, meh. If scum choose to kill me because of such a small thing, so be it. At least it would (further) prove that Sarc's just talking out of his ass...or, you know, is actually scum.

Hm, I believe that's -2. I really don't think there's any point in claiming, I'll be lynched anyway.

I'm with CKD on this one. As much as it pains me to agree with Sarc, not claiming at this point is just making things worse for you and the town.

[Blight]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Glork, you want a Sarcwagon?

I'd support it. Just let me know.[/quote]

Not like it needs to be said, but I'm in favour of this.

[Blight]

MOD: I hate to do this to you, but I need to be replaced. Things are starting to pile up with school and I don't have the time right now. I'm really sorry about this.

Sucks because I really wanted to see Sarcscum get lynched before I go.