California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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Since I don't know how many people are actually familiar with the book, The Count Of Monte Cristo, I took the time to get all of the characters from the Cliff Notes link that "Mr. Grey" kindly posted:
Edmond Dantès (alias the Count of Monte Cristo; his other aliases are Sinbad the Sailor, Abbé Busoni, and Lord Wilmore)
Monsieur Dantès
Monsieur Morrel
Julie Morrel Herbault
Maximilien Morrel
Cloclès
Abbé Faria
Cesare Spada
Haydée
Bertuccio
Luigi Vampa
Signor Pastrini
Peppino
ALI, the Count's mute Nubian valet
Jacopo
Gaspard Caderousse
Monsieur De Villefort
Renée, the first Madame de Villefort, née Mademoiselle Saint-Méran
Valentine De Villefort
Héloise, the second Madame de Villefort
Edouard De Villefort
Monsieur Noirtier
Monsieur Danglars, later Baron Danglars
Baroness Danglars
Eugénie Danglars
Fernand Mondego, alias the Count de Morcerf
Mercédès Herrera, later the Countess de Morcerf
Albert De Morcerf
Benedetto, alias Andrea Cavalcanti
The Marquis And The Marquise De Saint-Mèran
Doctor D'avrigny
Monsieur De Boville
Lucien Debray
Franz D'epinay
I also think there is some merit in talking about which characters could be apart of this game, if nothing else to be an ice breaker.
Now I'm not totally sure which characters are apart of this game but the one's that seem the most likely to be the members of the mafia are of course Baron Danglars, Count de Morcerf aka Fernand Mondego, Monsieur De Villefort, and Gaspard Caderousse since they are the four that send Edmond Dantès to Château d'If. I'm guessing if there is a serial killer on the loose, it's going to be Baroness Danglars since she poisoned a good number of people.
Then again, since there will be three games, it's a possiblity that the mafia is one of three major families to spread out the "scum" from CoMC. In this scenario Gaspard Caderousse seems to be left out, but I could see him as a serial killer because of his greed (kills the jeweler and attempts to kill Dantes when he was disguised as Abbe Busoni.
On a side note, The Count of Monte Cristo seems to be a great choice for a mafia theme. There are so many possibilites.
Continuing the speculation, we also have a possible doctor in D'avrigny, a possible miller in Benedetto, a possilbe set of lovers in Maximilien and Valentine, and maybe a roleblocker in Haydée.
I think the only character can be ruled out at this point is ALI, the Count's mute Nubian valet. Somehow I don't think a mute character would work very well in a game were you have to have a lot of quality posts.-
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foolinc Goon
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Please explain why any pro-town role would want to use a list this early in the game? Do you have an example (like a previous game) to support your theory that would support this?jeep wrote:
Why don't you agree? I don't understand why any pro-town role would not use a list. The only reason for not using a list is because you are scum and haven't had time to work out with your scum buddies what is the right way to use it to your advantage.Throws up some suspicion on non-Concordet voters, which I don't agree with.
Even if you don't provide a list, you're just saying: I'd be equally happy to lynch anyone.
vote: MGM, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, Dragon Phoenix, Skruffs
-JEEP
It seems to me that posting an anaylsis like DP and/or using an FOS is just as good right now as using Concordet voting.-
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foolinc Goon
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~Anaylsis up to 156~
Adele: Her views on totally random voting make me think she is probably town.
Cogito Ergo Sum: Hasn’t posted enough to really get a feel.
Cubsfan4ever: Backs Skruffs actions as “Skruffs being Skruffs;” Neutral for now
Dragon Phoenix: First one to post a full analysis and has been looking in the right places; probably town
jeep: Started to be suspicious after the blanket statement about not list voting means your scum (102) and his recent post (141) makes me even more so. Somewhat scummy
logicticus: Has contributed a good amount of information; leaning towards town.
LoudmouthLee: Been very active and akin to his name, loud; seems to be town
Mastermind of Sin: I'm not a fan of dice voting as it serves absolutely no purpose at all; slightly scummy
Mgm: Been a bit defensive about showing up the tail end of list votes, however has been making reasonable contributions as of late; leaning toward town
Oman: Not the strongest speller, but otherwise seems to be working for the town.
PlaysWithSquirrels: Not a lot to go on, but gave a reason for his vote; neutral
PookyTheMagicalBear: No read yet
Skruffs: I didn't like the way he reacted to the bandwagon at all. I thought he lashed out at other too much when he was trying to defending himself. However, some people have stated this is just his personality; Mostly scummy with a change of town.
Talitha: Needs to explain why she voted for who she did before I can make a judgement.
Thesp: Hasn't posted yet
Thestatusquo: Hasn't posted yet
VitaminR: I like how he picked apart Skruffs in post 74, however I think that he might be reaching with the vote of DP. There is also a chance that he was taking advantage of Skruffs' personality. ; Mostly townie with a chance of scum.
xyzzy: Hasn’t posted enough to get a feel
Zindaras: I’m not sure if I totally buy the metagame reasoning for starting the Skruffs wagon before switching to LML. IGMEOY
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Looks to me like the best choice, as of now, is Skruffs.
Vote: Skruffs-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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While I tend to agree with you in principle, at this point it isn't that big of a problem (if it is at all). We have enough people in the game right now that it doesn't matter. If we had less people, I'd be more concerned.LoudmouthLee wrote:
You don't see a problem with inherently singing someone's praises just because who they are?Mgm wrote:
Is there any immediate reason to assume Thesp is scum, because if there isn't I don't see the problem here.Scruffs decides that, since Thesp is a good player, we should "Yay Thesp!" because he "has a lot to bring?"
What would happen if Thesp was scum, Scruffs?
Everyone in this game has the same chances of being scum. To say "Yay Thesp! You have a lot to bring to the table here!" basically means, to me, that Scruffs is giving some sort of power to thesp... The feeling of Gospel.
It rubs me the wrong way. MGM, I'm kinda suprised it doesn't make you uneasy.-
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foolinc Goon
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Zindaras wrote:
Underlined for stress. Also note that PWS isn't TSQ's replacement: Tamuz is. And you would rather lynch yourself than Tally/Adele/me/No lynch?Unvote
Vote : Dragon Phoenix, [jeep, vitaminr, pooky], [mastermind of sin, cogito ergo sum,adele, loudmouthlee, cubsfan, oman], [plays with squirrel (TSQ's replacement), MGM], [everyone else I've forgotten about, Skruffs], [talitha, zindaras,adele], No Lynch.-
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foolinc Goon
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Sorry for the first post, hit submit on accident. Anyway, I agree with Zindaras here. While I don't agree with DP reasoning for putting himself before a no lynch, I can see where he's coming from. However, I'm not sure where you are coming from and would like futher explaination.Zindaras wrote:
Underlined for stress. Also note that PWS isn't TSQ's replacement: Tamuz is. And you would rather lynch yourself than Tally/Adele/me/No lynch?Unvote
Vote : Dragon Phoenix, [jeep, vitaminr, pooky], [mastermind of sin, cogito ergo sum,adele, loudmouthlee, cubsfan, oman], [plays with squirrel (TSQ's replacement), MGM], [everyone else I've forgotten about, Skruffs], [talitha, zindaras,adele], No Lynch.-
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foolinc Goon
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So my post where I gave my opinions on every player in the game wasn't helpful at all? Even when it gave you the bullet below?Tamuz wrote:I'm on post 256.
Foolinc:
- Acts helpful, really isn't all all, any one of us could go on wikipedia or some related site and get a list like that and, again, avoid talking about people in the games' actions
Actually I put down netrual for now, which is quite different than just saying he was netural. It's hard to tell whether Cubs was trying to make sure scum didn't metagame their way to an early mislynch or he was using metagame to either buddy up to an innocent or save partner scum at the stage of the post.-Says scruff is " mostly scummy" but Cubsfan who basically just defends skruffs accoring to him is "neutral"
What's so hard to get. Mgm asked what an abbreviation and I answered it since I was on.- 217 WTF?
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foolinc Goon
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Wouldn't have been better to quote your points then, so there is no possible way someone could confuse it for a summary?Tamuz wrote:Mind you foolinc these words were written as I've read so some of it may be out of date, but I kept them just to maintain progressive thought, which is something replacements often don't have.
I think you are grasping at straws. It would be one thing if Mgm said anything more than "PWS?" on post 216. Another thing that would have made your arguement more convicing would be if Mgm said anything about wanting Zindaras to explain why he wanted to add PWS to "that little list" (post 215), but He stated in post 218 "You're probably right. Thanks." and nothing more. It would seem that there was no more content to be added.My 217, WTF comment comes from you saying nothing for a large chunk of posts and then coming in and answering a question mostly anyone could answer but you said nothing else. I think you "Sarnath'd" someone, but their post gave the answer AND content where you felt your activity in this game was fine being limited to such empty posts.
My first post was posted an hour after the game started. The only other thing I could have done is make a basely vote for someone who mathimatically probably part of the town. My post wasn't faked helpfulness. I genuinely thought it could be helpful. It hasn't been so far, but still might be in the future.My first - was about your first post, which is has been mention and I feel even more strongly that you were just making it look like you were being proactive and helpful, but at the same time avoiding saying anything dangerous or anything that could link you to other people.
Who said neutral isn't a developed opinion? At that moment I read Cubs as neutral for now because, as I already said, I saw that his post could be read as both pro-town and anti-town and at the moment the possibility it being so was equal, putting him at neutral. The "for now" meant just that, for now, because his "as of now" netural statement could easily become scummy or pro-town by how he responded to that people questioning him on the posts.Could ya explain better how neutral for now is different then neutral. If you think he is neutral.... for now, you still think he is NEUTRAL at that point in time, yes? One just has a clause giving you more leeway in easily gliding away from your POV. The other doesn't give that leeway (although it is fair to mention that it doesn't box you into the POV). I just find it very strange that many on the Skruff is scumwagon think SOMETHING about Cubsfan, but you on the other hand plop him as a neutral with nothing to say about him, whereas you do have a developed oppinion on Skruff.
Interesting timing? You posted at 6:16pm and I posted at 2:06am right before I went to bed. That's almost 8 hours inbetween posts, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.Oh and your timing is also very interesting that I come on here and attack, and vote you and poof you appear the next post despite your sporadic appearances earlier.
I will be posting up another analysis and a Condorcet vote later today (EST).-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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~Anaylsis up to 344~
Adele: Still feeling a townie vibe, especially her response to LML’s “Gospel” post (post 240).
Cogito Ergo Sum: Hasn’t post a ton of content, but the content he’s given seems to make me think me is playing for the town.
Cubsfan4ever: Highly scummy. Contributed nothing besides backing Skruffs in the very beginning.
Dragon Phoenix: DP hasn’t shown me anything that would change my initial thoughts; probably town.
Battle Mage/jeep: BM hasn’t been around long enough to make any sort of impact, however up until jeep was replaced I still found him to be scummy since the only content he provided was able the voting policy. Still somewhat scummy.
logicticus: While I disagree on his opinion of Oman, I am still leaning toward town with logicticus.
LoudmouthLee: Has been very overaggressive (which is his play style) however, I don’t think the things that he has been attacking are very important, the “Yay Thesp” is a good example of what I mean. Slightly scummy.
Dani Banani/Mastermind of Sin: Hasn’t really contributed anything besides his own defense before getting replaced. I’m still with slightly scummy for now.
Mgm: Still leaning towards town, though I don’t know if I like his defense of Cubs “lurking” not being scummy (at least I think that it what he was trying to say in post 335).
IH/Oman: I said that I thought Oman seemed to be working for the town and IH hasn’t shown me a reason to believe otherwise.
PlaysWithSquirrels: Since my last analysis post he’s only made a few posts of worth and since he just asked for a replacement, I’ll leave him as neutral.
PookyTheMagicalBear: Has been hard to read so far. Neutral
Skruffs: While his play as of late has given me some doubts of whether or not he is really scum, downgraded to slightly scummy.
Talitha: I’m a fan of people stating their reasons for their votes and I don’t buy that Oman only getting through three people is a sign that he is scum (as real life could easily explain that reason). However both of these stem problem from game play issues, so I think I’ll place her as neutral for the time being.
Thesp: Has been asking lots of questions so far which is making me feel that he is a townie.
Tamuz/Thestatusquo: Thestatusquo totally flaked on the game (school is a very good reason to flake though). Tamuz has been very active for the short time he’s been playing and I need to see more (as in posts over time, not in regards of activity level) before I make a judgment.
VitaminR: Hasn’t posted a lot since my last analysis (pretty sure he was on vacation), however my feelings on him pretty much have remained the same. Mostly townie with a chance of scum.
xyzzy: Has been pretty loud and aggressive, maybe even over aggressive in regards to the “Yay Thesp” comment. I’m not quite sure whether this means he is scum or not, not yet anyway.
Zindaras: I’m still not happy with the way he handled the Skruffs situation early on, I think that his play as of late has been for the town.
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unvote; Vote: Cubsfan4ever,Battle Mage/jeep, Skruffs, Dani Banani/Mastermind of Sin, LoudmouthLee, [PlaysWithSquirrels, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz/Thestatusquo, xyzzy], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, logicticus, Mgm, IH/Oman, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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You defending Skruffs isn't good enough alone, however the fact you've been pretty inactive AND in the few posts you have made have done almost nothing besides defend Skruffs.Cubsfan4ever wrote:I think this whole logic of "if Skruffs turns out to be innocent than it means Cubs is scum" is a great big pile of crap logic. As town I think part of my duty is to not only ensure that scum is lynched but work towards that in part by ensuring people that I think are town are not lynched. I do not think it is scummy to defend somebody that you think is town. It's something that could be scummy but to use that alone was somehow evidence that I am ultra-scum does not work.
Your posts
0: confirm post
1: Defense of Skruffs
2: Defense of Skruffs
3: Defense of Skruffs; compares to LML
4: Attacks LML; defense of skruffs
5: Votes for LML citing odd behavior
6: Defense of self
7: Defense of self
So not only our you defending Skruffs, but you are voting for LML for doing the same thing Skruffs is, being himself.-
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foolinc Goon
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My apologizes for the grammar errors with my post. I'm pretty tired and hit submit when I wanted to hit preview. Here's want I wanted to say:
Defending Skruffs isn't a good enough reason for lynching you. However, the facts that you have been pretty inactive and in the few posts you have made, they've almost all been about defending Skruffs.
Your posts
0: confirm post
1: Defense of Skruffs
2: Defense of Skruffs
3: Defense of Skruffs; compares to LML
4: Attacks LML; defense of skruffs
5: Votes for LML citing odd behavior
6: Defense of self about not lurking
7: Defense of self in general
After looking at your posts again, you look even scummier since you defend Skruffs for being Skruffs, but attacking LML because he was beening his overagressive self.-
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foolinc Goon
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I was talking in regards to Cubs, not the rest of the people voting for LML, so I don't see why it's a case of gross oversimplification.Thesp wrote:foolinc wrote:So not only our you defending Skruffs, but you are voting for LML for doing the same thing Skruffs is, being himself.
To suggest that LoudmouthLee is being voted for "being himself" is a gross oversimplification.foolinc wrote:After looking at your posts again, you look even scummier since you defend Skruffs for being Skruffs, but attacking LML because he was beening his overagressive self.-
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foolinc Goon
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It might be inexperience talking but wouldn't this limit information given to the town? It seems to me the best way to find scum is to be as honest as possible and as just as willing to share information. That gives us the best possible chance of the uniformed majority becoming informed before the mafia become the majority (ok, so the mafia will only get to 50% before winning, but screw it, I'm on a roll). So, when using this thought process it seems to me that tiering votes is a good thing for the town as well as the mafia.Gaspar wrote:
I understand your concern, but I don't think it's a huge issue. Most of the time, players have well-defined opinions of at least a couple of players near the end of days. And in general, I would speculate that not talking about a player means no-read or near-neutral (anywhere from slightly scummy to slightly protown). Scums may not have detailed, person-by-person lists, but they know the top suspicions, usually the biggest protown suspicions, and they can tell who is flying under the gun. When you stop and think about it, I don't think we're giving out hardly any more information than in a game with a normal voting system.Tamuz wrote:Is anyone worried that tiering innocence rather than to guilt will help scum line up a few targets that they would like to take out if a large amount of people find them innocentish rather than less guilty.
I say this to perhaps suggest we should take off our no-read/inconclusive/innocents from our Condorcet lists (ie lump all 3 of those in 1 category). I say this because from experience if people stress that they feel one player is innocent, and that player is, then scum are often more likely to hit them. Barring other circumstances.-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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With the recent claims, here is a new new list. All I did was move Battle mage and LML back in the order.
unvote; Vote:Cubsfan4ever, Skruffs, Dani Banani, Battle Mage, [ Gaspar, LoudmouthLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz, xyzzy], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, logicticus, Mgm, IH, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc-
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foolinc Goon
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Looks like I'm an idoit and my vote wasn'ts valid since I didn't bold Cubs. Here we go again.
unvote; Vote: Cubsfan4ever,Skruffs, Dani Banani, Battle Mage, [ Gaspar, LoudmouthLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz, xyzzy], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, logicticus, Mgm, IH, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc-
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foolinc Goon
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After looking over the raw data I finally figured out why I thought my list was wrong, I don't have DP on it. Here's the final list from me....hopefully.
unvote; Vote: Cubsfan4ever, Skruffs, Dani Banani, Battle Mage, [ Gaspar, LoudmouthLee, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz, xyzzy], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, Dragon Phoenix, logicticus, Mgm, IH, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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I can't believe Cubs would wait that late in the day to do that. Oh well, time for a new list.
unvote; Vote: Skruffs,Dani Banani, Battle Mage, xyzzy, [ Gaspar, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Tamuz, ], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, Dragon Phoenix, logicticus, Mgm, IH, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], [Cubsfan4ever, LoudmouthLee], no lynch, foolinc-
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foolinc Goon
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Did you get some kind of message that your action was blocked?Skruffs wrote:> : (
Somebody blocked me. That pisses me off.
That's right I did change my vote to account for the fact that both Cubs and LML were confirmed innocents. You didn't though and I'm not quite sure why. Cubs played very poorly and I have no clue why he took the chance to lie about who he was, but like Gaspar stated, there was no logical reason to beleive that Cubs was scum after the duel.Mgm wrote:
I wasn't the only one. Foolinc changed his vote after the duel results and between my question about the duel and the end of the day was about 30 minutes. Obviously not enough time to get an alternative lynch going - at least not one that wasn't LML.LoudmouthLee wrote:That is particularly damning for MGM. He is the only voter on Cubsfan who had a chance AFTER Mith posted duel results to change their vote FROM cubsfan to someone else.-
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foolinc Goon
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But if we have a serial killer that uses poison (which could explain the delayed death), would they pretend to be a vig as well?Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Except Cubs was Kirk Kerkorian and didn't actually kill anyone. There's no reason to assume he was telling the truth or actually had any functional ability.
Day-SKs generally do one of two things:
1. Pretend to be a day-vig
2. just kill whoever they want.
Would a day-SK kill xyzzy this early in the day? I seriously doubt it. Killing xyzzy is consistent with 1. Killing early is not. I can see a real dayvig taking out xyzzy though, as a result of a desire to avoid the deadline rush that plagued Day 1. If you kill him early, then the town has all the time in the world to find a new lynch candidate.-
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I've posted Friday afternoon, but I'm going to be very busy until late Monday and don't know if I am going to get some time to spend on mafia.Zindaras wrote:I have not read anything since Day started. I, do, however, need to post 25 or more words to satisfy the mod. So I'm going to say that I'll get you guys a post tomorrow, as I was largely busy today.-
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foolinc Goon
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In terms of the secret word, I am unsure what to make of it. I've used it in a post day one, but nothing happened as far as I could tell.
I'm kind of suspicious of IH, being suspicious of logiticus. I also just filtered for mgm and was surprised at how easy it was to get EusgenieTownie, which is pretty close to mgm's claim. This doesn't make mgm a confirmed innocent in the though.
Speaking of Mgm, I've taken a look at jeep's and xyzzy's posts and discovered that mgm, PlaysWithSquirrels (who was replaced by Gaspar), LoudMouthLee, and Skruffs are common votes between both players. There has to be a reason that both were nightkilled instead of scum attempting to get the town to lynch them.
Vote: Skruffs,[Dani Banani, Gaspar], [PookyTheMagicalBear, IH, Mgm, Talitha, Tamuz ], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, Dragon Phoenix, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc-
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foolinc Goon
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I'm glad to see you saw that IH was also moved up as well.Gaspar wrote:(Glork.)
Pooky: Yes, I see that now. I more or less skimmed the most recent posts because I was trying to lay down some gut thoughts/reactions. My fault.
I am somewhat baffled by the ordering of your list, Foolinc. Why is Dani at an even level with me? Why are IH/Mgm at a lower level? What do you think of LoudmouthLee's claim and his subsequent behavior?
What do you think of the Tamuz/Skruffs discussion? How about Thesp? CES?
...an awful lot of trains of thought so far today, and yet Fool chooses to use thekillsas his primary basis for suspicion (and under the assumption that the same mafia group killed both BM and Xyzzy)? That seems a bit off to me.
(Preview Edit: It seems that all Fool did was modify his end-of-day VC from yesterday by bumping up the people who were mutually suspected by the dead players. While it shows consistency, I have to question Foolinc's failure to take into account any of the discussions today, as I just indicated above.)
And today's discussions DID go into the process. Skruffs had his softclaim. The events between Mgm and IH also played a part in them getting bumped up (I was close to moving logicticus up as well), and the fact that LML is grouped with my likely townie group and not by himself inbetween that group and no lynch or even on the other side of the no lynch should have tipped you off that I have some suspisions about him, even with his role claim and the whole duel.
And the reason you are on the same level as Danni is because I did augment my old list and while you were moved up I did see any reason to move Danni.
And no, I don't think that they were both killed by the same scum group, however I do believe that they both were on the right track in some fashion or else they wouldn't have been killed.
CES: I realize that BM claimed to be an information role, however I also thought that there could have been a chance that the mafia would use BM's poor past and try for a lynch.-
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Your right, he most likely would have been the lynch of day 2, maybe even a quick lynch. Isn't there a possiblity that the mafia would set up someone to be that guy? I'm still not quite sure that the poisoning (or whatever sort of attack caused a delayed heart attack) of Xyzzy was done by a vig either. Call it gut, but even though the game is only loosely based on The Count of Monte Cristo, with the way Xyzzy died that I think their is a serial killer in the game (I guess a second family that uses poison could also be a possiblity as well).LoudmouthLee wrote:Speaking of Mgm, I've taken a look at jeep's and xyzzy's posts and discovered that mgm, PlaysWithSquirrels (who was replaced by Gaspar), LoudMouthLee, and Skruffs are common votes between both players. There has to be a reason that both were nightkilled instead of scum attempting to get the town to lynch them.
Bogus. You think that the majority of the town would have "followed" Xyzzy to a lynch of any of these players? Why do you think that Xyzzy was nearly the condorcet winner? (By a 9-8 vote, Xyzzy outlasted Cubsfan). Xyzzy had a lot of heat on him. I severely doubt that he would have led the town on a crusade to get anyone.
It is not irrelevant, it's less relevant. If they voted for you once, then it would be irrelevant, but they didn't. They voted for you throughout the day. And it's not like I'm saying this makes you scum. I'm saying this and Cubs less than accurate role claim makes has put doubts in my mind. If I had thought it was that relevant for you I would have moved you up higher on the list that were I put you.You say that they were both voting for me (and a few others), and that may be true, but that sample set is irrevelant. A little bit less than the majority of the town was voting for me at my greatest VC and the majority votyed me at least once throughout the day.
In other words, throw a rock at two players. Chances are both voted me at some point D1.
Or it's a new player being a bit overagressive. This move is going probably going to haunt me for the rest of the game, but it's better to admit a mistake and get it over with. While, I had other reasons to go along with moving everyone else up, I moved Gaspar up because I was being a bit overzealous because I thought I was on to something. The fact it was late probably didn't help matter much either.@Foolinc - Please outline your case on Gaspar. Is it just the "I think he's the killing party that killed either Xyzzy or BM because both had voted for PWS at some point?"
It looks like a blatant framing job.
Note: After reading Gaspar's posts again I'm going to pull a 160 and place him down the list wth the people I think are townies. Posts 3, 9, and 32 are good examples of why.
My exact thoughts on the matter is that when he said he was roleblocked and then an action popped up, I thought he did it. Hense the question about whether or not he got a message or not (Which I admit was really freaking stupid of me). There is also a possiblity that he didn't do it, but I'm not a fan of the soft claim in general because it points out that you are a powerrole which will make you a target of scum, while not giving information to the town. And as I've already said, information is vital to the town overcoming the mafia.Gaspar wrote:
Okay, let's attack this point-by-point:foolinc wrote:And today's discussions DID go into the process. Skruffs had his softclaim. The events between Mgm and IH also played a part in them getting bumped up (I was close to moving logicticus up as well), and the fact that LML is grouped with my likely townie group and not by himself inbetween that group and no lynch or even on the other side of the no lynch should have tipped you off that I have some suspisions about him, even with his role claim and the whole duel.
1. Skruffs did his softclaim, but what are your exact thoughts on it? You just now brought it up without actuallysayinganything about it.
The whole breadcrumb thing as made me suspsious of all of them because it made me question the motives of three people I thought I had a read on. Right now there are a bunch of ideas going on through my head: Was mgm's breadcrumb truthful, is IH trying to get some heat on logic by calling into question how fast he got the crumb? Did logic and mgm work together? It is possible that mgm and IH are working together and tried to trap someone? Are all three working together to make a scene? Or are they all just townies?2. Again -- Reasons? What about the discussion bothers you about Mgm, IH, and Logic?
3.. Almost logic.... so you suspect IH for being suspicious of Logic, but you suspect Logic and almost bumped him up on your list. Care to elaborate on this one?
Now to answer why I didn't move logic up. Well when trying to work out the questions, it lead me to the realization that if logic was with mgm scum he wouldn't have answered to the question as quickly as he did because it would call into question on how he got it so fast. And if he was scum alone he wouldn't have been the first one to answer the breadcrumb.
This seems inconsistent to you because you are asuming that I think that believe that one scum group killed both innocents. As I already said, I think that there are two groups (most likely a mob and a SK). Plus as I already stated, I bumped up LML into a group with people I beleive are townies, this is much different than moving IH from the group of townies to the neutral/undecided group.4. The LmL thing is interesting. You have suspicions of LmL, but you've got IH (who is the only other person, as far as I can tell, actively going after LmL's claim) "bumped up" and near the top of your list. Do you suspect busing? How does the LmL/IH debate affect your suspicions? Thisalsoseems inconsistent to me.
Skruffs/Tamuz: I agree that with Tamuz that Skruffs soft role claimed, however I'm not sold on the Skurffs/Thesp connection.Also, you failed to address my questions regarding Skruffs/Tamuz, Thesp, and CES.
Thesp: I still thinks he's a townie. He's asking a lot of good questions IMO. The only thing that makes me question him is that he wouldn't share his theory, however that only isn't going make me move him.
CES: I am entitled to beleive that CES's "Yay dayvig" comment is a null tell. The rest of his post are in line with my feelings that he is proabaly a townie.
So what you're saying is that even though everyone has posted today, none of your other suspicions have shifted at all?Foolinc wrote:And the reason you are on the same level as Danni is because I did augment my old list and while you were moved up I did see any reason to move Danni.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure I have already answered this question above.
CES already pointed out why this is flawed.Foolinc wrote:And no, I don't think that they were both killed by the same scum group, however I do believe that they both were on the right track in some fashion or else they wouldn't have been killed.
BM claimed to be an information role. Those, regardless of whether they are "on the right track" are always threats to the scums and instantly become viable nightkill targets.
Xyzzy was being run up, which indicates that his death likelly came from somebody who A) vigilante; or B) wants us to think they are a vigilante.[/quote]
BM might have claimed a information role, but he wasn't confirmable, wasn't comfortble, and had a bad past. Hell, I thought he was scum even after the claim.
And I do think Xyzzy was NK'd (or the less probable day kill) by a SK (though of vig isn't out of the question). I am also in the mindset that if it is a SK they will want to look like a vig, so I'm guessing that someone who vote for him would have made the kill to try and prove that they are a vig and not a SK. And if they are voting for him in such a way to make this claim, Xyzzy would have gotten suspicious and put them on his list.
Unvote; Vote: Skruffs,Dani Banani, [PookyTheMagicalBear, IH, Mgm, Talitha, Tamuz], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc-
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foolinc Goon
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If it was poison that caused the heart attack (and from the background given to us, that is very likely) then I think it was a delayed NK since poison would take time before causing death.Skruffs wrote:Foolinc - you think xyzzy was targetted at night and died the following day? Okay. What's your reasoning?-
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foolinc Goon
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I was always more of a fan of work comedies like Scrubs and The Office than game shows.LoudmouthLee wrote:
"Because he was doing the poisoning?" quips LML, the eager contestant.Foolinc - you think xyzzy was targetted at night and died the following day? Okay. What's your reasoning?
"Survey says...!" calls out Richard Dawson.
All of a sudden, the #1 answer turns over and says "Foolinc is a bad man." The families politely clap.
And for the record Ray Combs > Richard Dawson-
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foolinc Goon
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I've already gone through this in other posts but here we go again:Skruffs wrote:You've posted twice without responding to my qusetion, foolinc
WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME???
- As I've already said, I used my old list from day 1 as a starting point where you where on top.
- You have made a soft claim, which I have already said I didn't like
- You were also on both lists-
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foolinc Goon
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Skruffs wrote:You used your list... which I was on... which is why you think I'm scummy.
Why did you think I was scummy before I revealed I had been blocked?
And why is being blocked scummy, in your eyes?
I then moved you down because I, incorrectly, thought others were better choices. However, since both choices are now dead you moved up.foolinc wrote: Skruffs: I didn't like the way he reacted to the bandwagon at all. I thought he lashed out at other too much when he was trying to defending himself. However, some people have stated this is just his personality; Mostly scummy with a change of town.
It's not the fact you said you were blocked. It's:foolinc wrote: I'm not a fan of the soft claim in general because it points out that you are a powerrole which will make you a target of scum, while not giving information to the town.-
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foolinc Goon
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I didn't really think of that.Gaspar wrote:(Glork.)
Erm... this logic is flawed.foolinc wrote:It's not the fact you said you were blocked. It's:foolinc wrote: I'm not a fan of the soft claim in general because it points out that you are a powerrole which will make you a target of scum, while not giving information to the town.
1) He might not be power. Though they are relatively rare, thereareroleblockers whose targets are told that they are blocked, regardless of whether they have an active ability or not.
I've been trying to answer this question for some time, but the best answer I can give is a less than sound idea, IMO. Skruffs would do so because he, if he was scum, would pretend to be town. In an attempt to gain the trust of the town he shared some information. However, like I have said, a soft claim is scummy in my eyes. This means that scum would be unlikely to make this move unless Skruffs is the poisoner. In this case, since only BM died that night he assumed someone blocked him and posted. The reason he would post would be because the best way to survive as an SK is to pretend to be a vig, which would not only kill someone they voted for, but also probably share that they were roleblocked.2) Unless I am mistaken, your reason for suspicion assumes that Skruffs' claim of "power role" is legit. If you believe that he gave information about his role to the scums, then wouldn't that mean that he's not scum? In contrast, if you believe his scum, why would his claim of "I was roleblocked" have to do with anything? Do you believe that he is scum with power and that he was roleblocked? If so, why would he choose to share that with the town?
However, this idea is way too complitcated for my liking. The simplest answer is that my logic on the situation was flawed and that Skurffs is really a townie that made a less than omptimal play. I think the timing with his roleblocked claim and Xyzzy's death might have played a part in my views on Skruffs and I "saw" something that wasn't there.
----
Before, I re-evaluate the situation and create a new list. I have a few questions/comments:
Talitha: If your eyes have been glazed over the last couple of pages, how you know whether or not you liked the wagon on me?
Pooky: Any reason for voting for me at all?
Mgm: Mind sharing your reasoning for, as LML puts it, dochunting?
Dani Banani: Like Thesp, I would also like to know What about xyzzy's death makes Mgm the correct play?
IH:
Thesp: Could you expand on why you are enjoying the Adele hate?
Unvote-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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I'm a bit suspicious on the situation, but there is a lot of possibilities on what really happened.IH wrote:I actually would consider a super kill being from one player, and would classify the mentioned action as "simultaneous".
I'm also unsure if it has been discussed or not, but has anyone thought to try and refute my points about Cubs action? Or even Read it? Any other comments would be appreciative?
Does anyone think anything from the flavor can be gathered from it? The way the duelist action happened where both players received a gun may have actually been the reverse, as only a killer would have known how to use a gun, and Cubs wasn't a killer, so he therefore missed.....
Possible Reasons for Cubs' weird claim:
1. He didn't think anyone would buy the Kirk claim and using his power claimed CoMC.
2. Mod Bastardary - There is a chance that to use his power (which seemed to be VERY powerful) he had to claim CoMC ala Sparticus.
3. Mod Bastardary - He thought he really was the Count.
However this is really a null point right now because all we have to figure out is whether or not the duel worked the way Cubs thought it would. It's really a weird situation because no matter how scummy Cubs looks with his claim, his WAS a townie.-
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foolinc Goon
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After taking the weekend of it's time to re-adjust my list:
Since I know am an innocent, I guess the best thing to do would be to look at the people voting for me and the also the other people up for lynching. Gaspar and LML pretty much started my bandwagon, but I think they were coming from the right place. DP, Pooky, and Talitha on the other hand seem to be perfectly fine with voting for me number one just because it's a bandwagon.
Mgm's play has been HIGHLY scummy this past day. I'm really confused why he'd give up his breadcrumb to his role, but not his password. It's like getting your meal supersized and getting a diet pop because you're watching your weight. The two moves don't match up. I'm also not a fan of the whole Doctor discussion. If we have a doctor, we want to protect him/her as much as possible and this type of discussion won't help do that.
Adele up to being timed out hasn't contributed much day two. I'm also mot a fan of her 17th post when she responded to LML, but changed her vote to Cubs.
Vote: Mgm,MrBuddyLee, [PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha], [IH, Dani Banani, Tamuz, Dragon Phoenix], [Skruffs, Cogito Ergo Sum, Gaspar, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], no lynch, foolinc-
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foolinc Goon
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If I go by the facts I am still behind Mgm and Dani Banani and tied with CES on your list. You have posted nothing of any content towards me since between the time when you moved me up on the list citing the bandwagon and the analysis post.Dragon Phoenix wrote:
Get your facts right. I for one am voting for you because it is a bandwagon AND you are very high on my likely scum list, if not number one.foolinc wrote: DP, Pooky, and Talitha on the other hand seem to be perfectly fine with voting for me number one just because it's a bandwagon.
However, since I have your attention, what do you feel about the rest of my votes?
Note: This question is open to everyone.-
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foolinc Goon
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I never said anything about breadcrumbing the password. What I said was that outing your own breadcrumb but protecting your password, in the name of protecting it from scum, is a very weird play,logicticus wrote:
I dont see why the password is even relevent. Why breadcrumb that at all? It doesnt help his claim in any way in my opinion by having his password.foolinc wrote:Mgm's play has been HIGHLY scummy this past day. I'm really confused why he'd give up his breadcrumb to his role, but not his password. It's like getting your meal supersized and getting a diet pop because you're watching your weight. The two moves don't match up. I'm also not a fan of the whole Doctor discussion. If we have a doctor, we want to protect him/her as much as possible and this type of discussion won't help do that.-
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foolinc Goon
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OMG I called it a password and not a secret word, so I must be scum. That makes sense. I guess everyone who called themselves townies are scum because they didn't call themselves innocents.Dragon Phoenix wrote:Am I the only one who notices that foolinc is calling it incorrectly a PASSWORD repeatedly? I'm even more happy now with my vote.-
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foolinc Goon
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Actually, I'm more confused on why you claimed at all. You weren't in a situation that you needed to.Mgm wrote:I don't see what's so weird about it. If you can't convince people you're innocent by talking and reasoning, you claim. As logicticus said, my secret word doesn't help my claim at all, so I'd rather make an informed decision about revealing it than just throw it out there.
Dani, what do you say?-
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foolinc Goon
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Actually, I do have one, but since a word could be easily faked, I don't know how I can make you believe it.IH wrote:Foolinc, the point is that you slipped up on the specifics of your secret word/password, so you must therefore not have one, in case you didn't understand what DP was implying.
Closer to a slip than a scumtell.
Your reaction to it was notable thoughFoS-
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foolinc Goon
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Because he openly role claimed. One would think he'd either role claim and give his secret word or none at all.logicticus wrote:
Then why do you find it so suspicious that MGM didnt reveal his word?foolinc wrote:
Actually, I do have one, but since a word could be easily faked, I don't know how I can make you believe it.IH wrote:Foolinc, the point is that you slipped up on the specifics of your secret word/password, so you must therefore not have one, in case you didn't understand what DP was implying.
Closer to a slip than a scumtell.
Your reaction to it was notable thoughFoS-
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foolinc Goon
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It's getting close to the deadline, so I guess am going to have to claim. I was hoping for something to happen so I could see another day of this game, but there isn't a chance in hell of that happening now. I'm Doctor d'Avrigny, our doctor. My secret word was faked, which I have used both days.
FYI, I orginially protected Battle Mage, but switched to LML thinking that the mafia would try to get a Battle Mage lynch day 2.
Go town.-
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foolinc Goon
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The only problem with this is that Mgm, you, and myself have claimed book characters during day 2. Wouldn't they figure out that there are innocents from both the book and the real world?LoudmouthLee wrote:Errr.. reread my post, let me try that again...
Why else would someone think that Members of the book MUST be scum? If they are scum and know that the scum team is proposed ofSOLELY book charactersmembers, and all who had died at that point are people from Fresno.-
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foolinc Goon
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I think that it's odder that I'm not dead. I don't care how bad I played day 2, you'd think that someone would have nightkilled me. Hopefully, the the Night write up will help clear things up. Oh and so I don't forgot: faked.Zindaras wrote:Sorry for disappearing yesterday, I'll try to look into this stuff later.
It's odd to see both Skruffs and Thesp die, with the supposed link between them...-
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foolinc Goon
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Time to get some discussion going:
Why do you believe Talitha?PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: Call me a moron, but I believe Tali at this moment.
Could you please tell me why you think IH needs to die? This questions is open to LML too.Talitha wrote:This may change slightly, but for now..
vote: IH, IH, IH, IH, Mr Grey, IH, ih, Dani, MBL.
Expand on your reasoning for this.Tamuz wrote: Uhh weigh on yesterday, I don't trust foolinc's claim, especially with the way he came out today.-
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foolinc Goon
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I'm feeling the exact same way about the duel. It's also logical to conclude that if he was a day serial killer, Lee would have started to capitalize his words from day one so it wouldn't look out of place. That said, I don't think this is enough evidence to put LML on the block.IH wrote: I can see the Lace capitalization. I cannot see the Xyzzy capitalization....
hey you know what's funny? You know how Cubsfan said he knew what would happen to someone if they were mafia? Did he know what would happen to someone if they were neutral? = |
IGMEOY: LML-
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foolinc Goon
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I'm in full agreement here. LML's Lace X stuff today proves nothing. There are too many variables to think about at this point, so we should probably leave it a lone till there is a bit more information.IH wrote:1.That's in a different format, first off. When your Lace Xyzzy was posted, it was seperated. It was in two different paragraphs. It was seperated by a quote. It wasn't in the same sentence. There are way to many possible restrictions for that to prove anything.
2.It could be a one shot, or alternating action (as has been mentioned) Like you can only do it on even days.
3.Maybe you can only do it on certain players. Or it was a gift from someone.
4.The method of sending it in could be changed. Maybe one day it would be all caps, the next day pm, the third day italics, the fourth day a different phrase, etc etc etc.
This doesn't mean that LML did it, btw, it just means that his Lace X proves nothing. The scenario of SK noticing it and killing is just as likely. I think the above proves that LML didn't breadcrumb it at least.-
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Pooky: Might telling me why, if you think the duel didn't mean anything, you didn't say anything about it day 2?
Sarcastro: You haven't answered Tali's question about why you'd think it's odd for someone to "have a player who noticed something suspicious about another player on my condorcet?" Post 1130
Tamuz: Why is "Pooky is on the up and up" (His 28th post) and why did you end your post with "I am Jack's complete disgust." in your 27th post.
Everyone who believes LML is scum: Why do you think LML would kill xyzzy?-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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I'm not sure, but it said he was a pretty good boxer (he won a local title) so it's possible.PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:yes talitha, however we have no idea what a "duel" actually does, he says that it is supposed to do this and that, but if the mod lied to him about his identity, what else could the moderator have left out?
Do you believe Kirk Kerkorian is capable of killing a mafia member in a duel?
On a side note, you're prediction about the Yankees were wrong.-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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Actually, I was quite busy up until today. I'm making my list as we speak.Gaspar wrote:I'd just like to point out that less than half of the town is even voting, and we're over halfway through the day.
CES, foolinc, IH, logicticus, MrBuddyLee, Pooky, Tamuz, and Zindaras: Is thereanyreason that you're holding back your votes? Are you happy with the "sit around and wait, and then leave less than 48 hours to allow for adjustments pending a significant claim" approach that has been prevelant during the first two days?-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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It's irrelevlant since it wasn't actually meant for you. If it was then I would love to know why did answer that, but it wasn't for you so the question is null and void.Sarcastro wrote:That wasn't the question. The question was why you were so eager when you didn't know the context. What did you expect from my answer, exactly?-
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foolinc Goon
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foolinc Goon
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I forgot to respond to this. I can see where you are coming from but unlike the rest of us, Mr. Grey can't answer questions and can't be caught in lies. There is also another reason, which is mostly based on gut. In my ability section of the role pm it said I might not be able to save everyone. It's a possiblity that it was referring to death caused by Mr. Grey. Of course I could be overthinking about that. It could just be some flavor commenting on the fact that I can't save the lives of people getting lynched.Dragon Phoenix wrote:Why would lynching the mod in this stage of the game be a good idea? Most likely we would just be wasting a lynch (effectively meaning a no-lynch vote). I see no clear case against Mr. Grey, whereas there are several scummy candidates for a rope.-
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Speaking of finding scum. Who do you think is scummy right now and why haven't you voted yet?Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Guys, we need to focus on finding scum rather than worrying about Mr Grey and silly coincidences. I acknowledge that I myself have been lacking in this area recently and I resolve to re-read the game and help give this game a boost.
We need to find scum to lynch.-
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If LML is scum, then why didn't he die in the duel?Sarcastro wrote:MBL, did you give an explanation for your vote on me? Is it a holdover from Dani or something?
I think we can all agree that LML should be lynched. The more I think about it, the more I don't like the lace "coincidence" and the more I dislike his reaction to Talitha and Pooky, as well. Oh, and his claim, too. Yeah, he needs to be more dead.-
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foolinc Goon
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