This sounds like you think/know he's town.Mgm wrote:You're going to be so disappointed(, IH).
) skruffs ok, no read on LML, claim looks neatly tailored to the situation, gaspar missed a significant fact in a read, no read on mgm. Yes and yes. However, I'd be more confident in your alignment if you'd been aware that xyzzy was a prime suspect without having to rely on someone else's word for it. Also, I need to read the circumstances of cubs' duel to see how much clearance I believe it gives you.LoudmouthLee wrote:@MBL - If you know you're town, wouldn't you be willing to knowingly sheep to save your life, since you know there is a better chance of finding scum with the lynch of ANYONE else other than you? That was explicitly said.
I understand you just did a PBPA of D1, which is wonderful.
You current vote is for NL, followed by the dead Xyzzy.
Your real condorcet looks like NL, Dani, CES, Gaspar, Poolt, Me, MGM, etc.
Did you see the "duel" scene in which, if I were scum, I would be killed?
Right, it was this that stuck in my mind:Gaspar wrote:Primate didn't post a Condo before he missed, saw, and acknowledged missing LmL's claim. The only Condo he posted didn't even have LmL listed as an option because he took LmL away from the top of the list. Get your facts straight, MBL.
But he didn't actually move the condo, just expressed satisfaction with an inappropriate lynch.I feel like a dick moving his Condorcet this close to deadline, considering how much more involved he is than me, and we still haven't figured out a method to sort our votes. It's mostly a moot point anyway, considering I'm quite happy with a LML lynch, and that looks like what's happening here.
Dani Banani, you've got me as FIRST on both your lists and you've said nothing about me. You've got foolinc SECOND on both your lists and have said NOTHING about him either.Dani Banani wrote:unless i missed it, you say absolutely nothing about my posts, and very little about MoS' posts, yet you have me as 2nd on your list since xyzzy is dead... why?..
Wouldn't a dayvig worry to some extent about a cop investigation clearing xyxxy? Or the possibility that he's a power role with results to share? Vigging start of day seems like a terribly reckless venture to me, and it's interesting that you didn't consider that before pooh-poohing the idea we have an SK afoot?Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I can see a real dayvig taking out xyzzy though, as a result of a desire to avoid the deadline rush that plagued Day 1. If you kill him early, then the town has all the time in the world to find a new lynch candidate.
VitaminR wrote:Vote: Adele, foolinc, Tamuz, Dani Banani, Talitha, logicticus, [Skruffs, IH], [Zindaras, LML, Gaspar, Thesp] [Pooky, MGM, Dragon Phoenix, CES]
VitR, you trust Mgm significantly. His suspicions are about as different from yours as can be. Can you explain what it is about him you trust this game, and why you think your suspicions differ so greatly?Mgm wrote:IH, [Thesp, Talitha, Zindaras], Logicticus, [Dragon Phoenix, PookyTheMagicalBear], [Tamuz, Adele, Dani Banani, foolinc], Skruffs, Gaspar, VitaminR, Cogito Ergo Sum, No lynch, LoudmouthLee, Mgm.
No, I really don't. I need to be evaluated today, just like you and everyone else needs to be evaluated today. You've had about five real-life days worth of posts to evaluate me on since I replaced in, and I was packing and moving 1000 miles but still found time to do a skim and full read of the game and post dozens of thoughts covering most every player in some detail. So please forgive me if I express disdain for your complete and utter lack of an argument. I also know you're quality scum, VitR, and I know you know that I know that. So I'm watching you, and I expect pro-town play from you to have a different tenor than what I'm seeing.VitR wrote:I agree with Zindaras that there's something odd in Talitha's posts. She's going up on my list and he's going down. Also moving foolinc down.
MBL needs to die today.
Thesp's role was one of four men upon whom the Count took revenge in the book. If Thesp's group totalled four mafia, and they suspected an SK committed the 2nd kill N1, why would you think they'd suspect another scum family out there? If Thesp's group totalled three mafia, and they thought a second group killed N1, it might make more sense that they'd predict the existence of a second family.Talitha wrote:The scum would probably know from the size of their group that there's likely another family out there.
May I ask you to sit down with a glass of brandy and a cigar sometime today and qualify your quarrel with that post? From what you've typed, it sounds like maybe you agree with my suspicions and observations but dislike the tenor? I also note that your vote keeps me neck and neck with IH, someone I expressed mild displeasure with in the post you didn't like.Dragon Phoenix wrote:MrBuddyLee, replacing Adele D2: post 1045 does not sit well with me. At all. Difficult to point out what exactly, but it set off scum bells in my head.
vote: MrBuddyLee
LOL, why would I waste my time doing this? "Hi, I'm replacing Battle Mage, here's a DSM-IV eval that should explain his post history."Gasar wrote:Even if you disagree with or do not understand her behavior, you are still accountable for it. As far as I can recall, you've barely made any effort whatsoever to explain where she might have come from. The vast majority of competent replacements for scummy players at least try to offer some objective, protown rationale for what their predecessors might have been thinking. Your downplaying of Adele's play strikes me as very shady. I distinctly feel that you were just trying to sweep Adele under the rug, hoping nobody would notice.
So I'm just going to play the game and you're all big boys and girls, you can figure out where she was coming from and how much her words mean compared to mine.MBL wrote:Mealy-mouthed near-complete lack of genuine suspicions
Your most recent post was twice as many words but doesn't appear to have stated anything particularly relevant to finding scum. Making neutral observations on Day 2 without attaching significant opinion to them is something I find detachedly scummy.
Sometimes you'll see Adele correct people's logic without making a statement on whether or not they're scummy--it's more conversational.
I read half of day one and was keeping a running Condorcet. I tacked "no lynch" on the front so I wouldn't accidentally lynch someone or put them at risk with my vote if they were at L-1ish. (I didn't think anyone was.) What's the big deal?Gaspar wrote:I didn't like your initial Condorcet. No Lynch, then a dead player.
Since when is it "going for a double mislynch" to point out who's obfuscating the most relevant issues in a game? I'm actually going to go back to D1/D2 right now and see what Thesp was talking about when townies and LML were being run up and forced to claim or being lynched:Gaspar wrote:you never managed to answer a significant mark I had against you:
foolinc, double mislynch, blahblahblah
It's not easy, but ultimately LazyTown has at least a mild curiosity about alignments and LazyScum does not. Sometimes it's possible to smell the difference. Do you really not do this yourself or are you just making hay?Gaspar wrote:Could you explain how you differentiate between LazyTown and LazyScum?
At the time you posted this, I had exactly ten days to get acclimated to this game. I was also packing, moving 1000 miles, attending a bachelor party and unpacking in that time. I really wanted to be in this game because of the quality of the talent, and mith found a spot for me. My contribution's as good as it could get in that limited timeframe, and now I'm taking a look at each player one by one. Your attack here is hyperaggressive, and I believe the sleaziest part of your argument against me.Gaspar wrote:You spent an awful lot of time asking people questions about Foolinc (town), Mgm (town), Skruffs (town), and Dani (whom I believe is town). Yet you seemed hesitant to give your actual opinions of many players beyond your initial reread of the game. Basically, I get the impression that you're asking select questions to/about select players to direct discussion and appear to contribute without actually giving any of your own personal input. That's a pretty major tell in my book.
Because I'm busy figuring things out and haven't been focused on making impressions. For y'alls benefit, however:Gaspar wrote:mrbuddylee could u reply 2 my case against u and post some of ur own opinions plz and explain y u havent voted yet??
kthxbai
ps o yea die 2 lolol
You didn't hound me to do squat. And I maintain that I have no way of answering questions like "Why did Adele behave in this manner?" In a recent game, I tried to explain why my two predecessors claimed and then unclaimed as town, and not only was it a futile enterprise, it also muddied the waters for several days as people yelled at me because I couldn't possibly know why my predecessors did what they did. Or something like that--it was retarded, and I mean that in the most politically correct of ways.Gaspar wrote:In the past, I hadalwaysbeen asked to respond to any reasonable, outstanding allegations directed towards my predecessors. That's part of the job description, and you seem to have skirted it entirely up until now (and you're only now responding because I've hounded you to reply to me).
You should know me better than this... I'm the guy that's always asking people for broader views on the game. BUT... when there is one guy about to be lynched or forced to claim, yes, I ABSOLUTELY want everyone on the record before that lynch or claim happens. Anyone who's babbling about other shit and ignoring the elephant in the room is probably doing it for a reason, and likely a scummy reason.Gaspar wrote:It tries toforceeverybody to talk aboutonespecific topic -- Foolinc. The way I see it, you wanted all of the attention on Foolinc, so that when he got lynched (likely as town)
In previous games I've gotten fed up with your blockheadedness and/or thought you were scum for your overly insistent attacks on me, and I made it too personal, which only entrenched your suspicions and behavior. I'll be happy to answer your questions, but I'm going to politely disagree with you on the premises of some. In this case, I'm operating in the manner I see as best for town and if you can't step back and recognize that, you're either a terrible reader of MBL or you're scum making hay.Gaspar wrote:The fact of the matter is that you've followed the thread closely enough to be able to judge where people are/aren't lacking in contributions (based on all of the "hey, what do you think of X?" questions), and yet you have continually chosen to simply ask other people to talk rather than giving your own opinions. All I've seen from you is a lot of handwaving and interrogation, butYOU YOURSELFhave to contribute. You don't find it the least bit hypocritcal that, while you're trying to extract opinions from everyone else, you get all huffy when I insinuate that you're not talking enough about your own personal thoughts?
CES hasn't moved the game forward much at all, and I want the squeeze put on him like it should have been put on him D1/D2 of Face to Face. This is how HE operates as scum and he needs to be knocked off HIS game. Tamuz jumped way too wildly on Skruffs' pseudo-claim and has had generally lousy suspicions. Zindaras makes sense to me for the most part thus far and several times has expressed thoughts in his posts that I was about to express myself.Gaspar wrote:Why is CES second on your list? Why Tamuz so high? Why Zindaras so low?
(See, I can do it, too.)
Crazy's not the word I'd choose to describe your selective reading abilities... here's a summary of my questions and comments on players since I entered the game (actually it ignores my initial three skim/analysis posts which were as much for my benefit as yours):Gaspar wrote:Gee, it's like my point about MBL asking selectively-chosen (and apparently redundant) questions to others to hide his own noncontribution is a valid one!
Crazy how that works, ain't it?
MBL wrote:@Dani: MoS intentionally chose not to move the game forward, and your posts did not leap out to me as in any way aggressively scumhunting. Wallflowers are scummy.
MBL wrote:IH, can you please link me to your best game as scum? Thanks.
MBL wrote:I'm not good at reading LML as evidenced by our last game together, but I don't find him overtly townish at this juncture. He's defensive++ and insightful-.
MBL wrote:logicticus, has everyone you care to hear weigh in on foolinc weighed in?
MBL wrote:i didn't miss the claim, i didn't miss the gaspar retraction ("oops"). i find it mildly scummy.
MBL wrote:IH seems alternately insightful and sleazy. ADD or scum?
MBL wrote:Is Tamuz's fixation avoidant?
MBL wrote:Is VitR solid or selective?
MBL wrote:Dani Banani, you've got me as FIRST on both your lists and you've said nothing about me. You've got foolinc SECOND on both your lists and have said NOTHING about him either.
MBL wrote:IH, can you please post your gut feelings on foolinc, Mgm and Skruffs? Preferably without using the thread as a reference?
MBL wrote:CES, you're not opposed to a foolinc lynch and demanded his claim even though he isn't on your condo list. Can you please clarify how you felt about him (and why) before his claim and whether or not you're inclined to believe his claim?
MBL wrote:VitR, you trust Mgm significantly. His suspicions are about as different from yours as can be. Can you explain what it is about him you trust this game, and why you think your suspicions differ so greatly?
MBL wrote:I believe foolinc is either the doctor or was given the safeclaim of Doctor d'Avrigny. The offhand way in which he speculates about the doctor in his intro post is weak confirmation that this is his identity. foolinc, I understand why you changed your mind about Skruffs. What made you decide to trust Dani Banani?
MBL wrote:MGM, why do you trust Dani Banani?
MBL wrote:OK, top scum candidate by FAR is Dani Banani. MoS was creepy-useless, and Banani hasn't shown any interest in finding scum. Calling Mgm the "correct play" is a scummy way of indicating suspicion, claiming difficulty reading the recently scummy Talitha looks like weak distancing, as does the "agreement" with Thespscum where the statement about lurkers could have EASILY been made without mentioning Thesp. Check it out.
MBL wrote:PWS was scummy, Gaspar's mentioned me in 70% of his posts since I entered the game, and he's wrong YET AGAIN about my alignment. He was wrong about Mgm and I think his read on Banani is atrocious and inexplicable. Plus the inattentive miss-the-claim thing.
MBL wrote:I also know you're quality scum, VitR, and I know you know that I know that. So I'm watching you, and I expect pro-town play from you to have a different tenor than what I'm seeing.
MBL wrote:CES's behavior with regards to Mgm is highly suspect. Total inconsistency of suspicion/trust level and argument/defense.
MBL wrote:I don't like Lee's arguments re: IH and his sheeping on Gaspar/VitR.
MBL wrote:IH's claim is inappropriate and bizarrely timed. Overly proactively defensive.
MBL wrote:Zindy actually thinking things through out loud, his putting himself in scum's shoes doesn't look fake. Genuine curiosity.
MBL wrote:Tamuz awkwardly echoes CES.
MBL wrote:Thesp calls out logicticus for using the wrong term for a secret word... potential busing after a scumpartner made a mistake?
MBL wrote:Thesp glued to IH all day, gives very few ongoing specifics. Sticking doggedly to a scumpartner or riding the easy lynch? I'd lean towards the latter.
MBL wrote:Thesp-strident attacks against LML early, 7.0 on the Richter. Doesn't seem to be a good strategy between two quality scumpartners to make each other targets this quickly, so I'd guess they're not aligned.
MBL wrote:DP, I note that your vote keeps me neck and neck with IH, someone I expressed mild displeasure with in the post you didn't like. You had IH in the middle of your suspicions list until early today, when you cited his post 657 as a reason for finding him protown and moved IH to the bottom of your list. 657 was a patented IH wall-o-text, which I agree looks thoughtful, but it's also the post in which IH voted for LML despite the "innocent investigation". Would you say IH's vote was remotely appropriate, and if not, would you speculate on how you view his alignment in light of that vote and line of discussion?
MBL wrote:IH, your top suspicions have been Skruffs, Mgm, BM, VitR, LML. You've mentioned that you found DP scummy on a particular topic but never included him in ANY of your Condorcets and you've actually defended him from two players. Can you please explain the evolution of your thought on his alignment in this game?
MBL wrote:I have to note that the people voting me haven't asked me any questions, they've just kind of plunked votes down on me and let them stand. If either of you are really interested in ascertaining alignments, I think you'd be trying to find out whether I'm aligned with anyone. I don't get the least sense of that, not even an attempt to connect me with dead known scum.
MBL wrote:logicticus, can you please explain your thoughts on CES, foolinc and Talitha?
MBL wrote:Pooky, can you please explain your thoughts on Sarcastro and his predecessors, on IH, on Gaspar
MBL wrote:VitR, I reviewed your posts and you've asked only one or two questions of people this game, and the answers to those questions would result in the same general feel I get from all of your comments in this game: nearly every remark is designed to attract the least amount of scrutiny and the maximum amount of agreement.
MBL wrote:CES hasn't moved the game forward much at all, and I want the squeeze put on him like it should have been put on him D1/D2 of Face to Face. This is how HE operates as scum and he needs to be knocked off HIS game.
MBL wrote:Tamuz jumped way too wildly on Skruffs' pseudo-claim and has had generally lousy suspicions.
MBL wrote:Zindaras makes sense to me for the most part thus far and several times has expressed thoughts in his posts that I was about to express myself.
MBL wrote:Pooky, can you please explain your hypothesis regarding who Lee is and what he's done?
So my questions not to Gaspar, but to anyone sitting back detachedly and watching Gaspar's song and dance:MBL wrote:Sarc, yes I found Dani suspicious for ignoring the controversial issues of the game, and while I don't find your BRINGING UP the LACE issue to be scummy at all, I do believe you've been a one trick pony since you entered the game. If you have two or three scumpartners, I have NO idea how you feel about them right now, which you know is not kosher. If you're town, I have pretty much no way of knowing that whatsoever.
And to Gaspar:Mr. Grey wrote:Alive (14)
Cogito Ergo Sum
Dragon Phoenix
foolinc
Gaspar, replacing PlaysWithSquirrels D1
IH, replacing Oman D1
logicticus
LoudmouthLee
MrBuddyLee, replacing Adele D2
PookyTheMagicalBear
Sarcastro, replacing Dani Banani D3, Mastermind of Sin D1
Talitha
Tamuz, replacing Thestatusquo D1
VitaminR
Zindaras
I note that VitaminR was seeing the light and was lining up to grill Gaspar before he was gassed. Lack of proportional accusations = likely scumbag.VitaminR wrote:I also endorse this product:I have to say, I do like most of MBL's posts so far.MrBuddyLee wrote:And to Gaspar:
In light of the above WALL O TEXT, please revise and extend your remarks about my redundant, selectively-chosen(?!) questions and clarify your criticism of my play. I've created a relational web between me and most of the remaining players--which, if any of the connections look weak or phony to you? Why me when by all appearances my contribution dwarfs those of many players in this game?
No, I understand that your top suspect yesterday was Mr. Grey and your most trusted was LML. And that VitR was high on your list. I'd like to know where you stand after the night's events.foolinc wrote:It's called the filter button, I suggest you use it.Foolinc made a TERRIBLE choice of protect, that is, if he's a doc. Need to see your condorcet pronto, bud, with explanations.
I'm not saying I'm god's gift to this game, but I don't see how my play has distinguished me as "the most likely scum" to you. I understood VitR's suspicion of me--it was largely based on Adele's play, and as expected, it SOFTENED over time as he read my posts. Your suspicion of me INTENSIFIED, and that doesn't jive. Still doesn't, after your weak explanation.Gaspar wrote:Almost all of the posts that don't fall into one of these categories are centralized among about three (maybe four) general analysis posts. I noted that you quoted each of these statements individually, so as to make your post seem longer/more significant. Essentially, MBL, I'm perfectly willing to admit that you've made about one real, original, contributive post per day. Everything else is asking questions without following up on them, answering others' questions about your thoughts, or making vauge and inconclusive remarks (which you also never elaborate on).
If I had to pick out two scum right now they'd be Sarc and Gaspar. Wildcard: all three people CES has voted have turned up dead town, plus the disappointment factor makes him tres sketch.Sarcastro wrote:You're right that I should probably be doing a better job of that. I admit that I've kind of just been wanting to finish off this day with an LML lynch and put in more effort starting tomorrow.