Paint Mafia! - Game Over!

[West9]

I'm giving him a free pass because of something that he said pre-game and is thus not indicative of alignment in any way. I'd be pretty pissed if I went into a game and before the game I say "I'm gonna try a different playstyle" and then get lynched for trying a different playstyle.

does the free pass on activity cover/excuse weak content? Cause up until this point, Frogger's posts have been full of the mechanics discussion, meta/playstyle talk, "waa people are voting for me," and "you're not playing the game right" that people (typically, more frequent posters, actually) to cover up for a lack of scumhunting. I mean, I don't know Frogger's meta that well, but your point makes it sound like his making infrequent yet interesting posts, and he's not.

Davsto and Acryon's "100% sure" talk and weird defenses of Frogger are bad and lame.

Sky's wagon is stupid even for RVS standards and I'm curious as to why people are choosing that one over Froggy.

I chose Sky because Froggy barely posted and said he was going to have a different style this game.

Meh-Spiffeh, Frogger, Aero look like how I've always seen them as town.

I'm confused. If Frogger's play seems typical to you, does that mean you didn't choose Frogger just because he

said

his playstyle would be different?

Also, Davsto and Acryon worry me.

Ayyyy, me too!

Ugh god, I like Frogger for going after Davsto and Acryon for defending Frogger who I don't like. Shit.

I hate you cheetory

i'm liking you more and more (luv u cheet)

Chaos is cool cool cool. I like Areo and Spiffeh too.

back to null on frogger. aa's "pissing off someone while trying not to piss off anyone" points are solid.
yeesh actually this whole "frogger deflects to playstyle shift whenever it's convenient and ignores it when it's not" thing kinda sucks.

i keep forgetting this phase is just about revealing a color.

would very much like to do that on one of the more unreadable players.

Was gonna vote frogger, but this a probably a good idea. Out of the acryon/davsto/frogger trio, the one I'm most unsure of is:
VOTE: acryon

[West9]

Frogger's posts have been full of the mechanics discussion, meta/playstyle talk, "waa people are voting for me,"

Did you conveniently miss my push on Davsto? My concerns about AA (which have been addressed now)? My dislike of lilith's entrance? My pointing out CO seemingly knowing my alignment? My dislike of Acryon's attacking spiffeh for attacking me?

Where have I said waaahh people are voting for me? If anything I'm the one actively scumhunting more so than tunnel Davsto who's whole ISO is literally discussing game mechanics and/or the talking about the me/spiffeh thing.

I actually townread like 4 people at one point or another while they were voting me (Aero, Spiffeh, Marquis, AA). That's not "waaahh people are voting me".

I'd say this is somewhat of a misrep of how I've played so far.

Most of that shit happened after the post Davsto made that I was responding to.

I would have explicitly said that I was using that post to comment on things as I read through them, but I thought that the progression of my thoughts (on you, in particular) made that obvious.
(actually, reading it now, I probably should have said that it was a catch-up post or something like that. Sorry for being unclear)

Also, "waa people are voting for me" =/= "i think the people voting for me are scum." There's a subtle difference between the two.

[West9]

Most of that shit happened after the post Davsto made that I was responding to.

Also, I'd still agree with the idea that someone defending you for the "playstyle shift" stuff is silly, and I'd be interested to know how Davsto has shifted on that particular point since 110.

[West9]

You know, when I was writing that post, I thought that this:

yeesh actually this whole "frogger deflects to playstyle shift whenever it's convenient and ignores it when it's not" thing kinda sucks.

would be the thing you'd try to defend against. Wasn't expecting this "misrep" angle.

[West9]

Why did you choose Acryon over Davato?

I think I'd rather see him flip then be lynched. Like I said, he's the scumread I'm least sure about.

I don't even think that misrep makes you scum. I was just pointing out it objectively was a (apparently unintended as you've explained) misrepresentation of my play.

Well, it's a misrep in the same way that "tupac is alive" is a misrep. I'm pretty sure it's not true now, but it was definitely true at one point.

[West9]

I get that now. But I didn't get that at the time because I had no idea you were writing it as a catchup. You even admitted it wasn't as clear as it should have been and apologized.

(I know but i thought the tupac joke was too funny to pass up)

This least sure stuff bothers me.

Like. Davsto is scum. We just need to produce his red flip.

Meh. I'm not opposed to the idea. To switch my vote I'd probably need to hear a good case from someone who isn't you, though.

[West9]

Yeesh, sorry this is so long. Took a while to catch up.

Need to write my CO points here when I have a minute.

Did you ever do this? I remember really liking CO's questioning.
You followed this up with a readslist (yawn) but never anything specifically about CO.

-awesome
-skybird
-MM4
-BBT
-lilith

Why these five? This is literally the first time you mention most of these names.

Spiffeh - I take post 287 to mean "these are the people who I don't see as being of any value in the future." Sound about right?

I just think that once I flip blue (and it's blue, yes) someone will say "he probably got that gf role tho" and then I still won't really be clear in anyone's minds because of silly paranoia.

I would be playing this a lot better if I was scum. I don't really mind if you flip me, I just think it's unneeded, but if it soothes your paranoia, I'm all for it.

?? Wait so, which is it, will flipping you lead to more paranoia or will it sooth paranoia?

I'd like Skybird because I always read Skybird as scum. But that's just my personal bias talking.

i) why is your vote still on davsto at this point?
ii) why are you just letting your personal bias talk? are you reading the game orrrr...?

pisskop - haha i remember you from cheet's other game. of course other people are to blame for you not reading the rules.

re: 372 Skybird, how can you say that you're disappointed in someone for not being able to read you well if the last post you made before this was on page 2? Any even this post literally says nothing. Are you playing the game or what?

If there's anything really important in the AA/pisskop bullshit then let me know, because god damn I have absolutely absolutely absolutely no interest in going through any of that.

Uhh okay so pisskop shouldn't go the rest the game unflipped for sure, DGB and Skybird are useless in a really scummy way, davsto and acryon disapeared, which kinda sucks, and I didn't really pay attention to frogger during my read. I'll do that now: i'm generally not a fan of readlists, so that might be coloring my vision a little bit. the tone of the general response to pisskop was neat. Other than that, kinda just floating around, making points periodically.

I still don't like the stuff I talked about in my other post a while back, but I think at this point I'd rather focus on the disappearing acts (dav, acryon, sky, and goof). Of those four, I think I hate 372 enough to VOTE: Skybird

P-Edit:

Yeah Skybird is 100% scum.

She wouldn't have blind faith I'm town. She's never seen my town game and I fooled her twice as scum. She even remarked in delicious about how so fooled her once so she was going to try to be more wary of me there (and I fooled her again).

This townread with no paranoia about me is not coming from town!sky whatsoever.

VOTE: Skybird

Cool cool cool

[West9]

West-those names are a list of people not playing much if at all so I want to see their color.

That list the same now as it was then?

eww. care to quote me blaming other people for my not reading :[

340 was the one i had in mind. I mean, that whold exhange had a whole "you all shouldnt expect me to know the rules, and if i dont know the rules it's your fault" vibe.

Hehehehehehehehe cheet i love it.

[West9]

TSO has been inactive like this as town in games I've been in with him before and never as scum. I'd rather flip someone else. I've played with him as scum enough, that while he's really good, I think I might be able to figure it out now if he is.

I'm always wary of these kinds of claims.

I dislike the idea of us color-flipping someone based on a perceived activity discrepancy from their meta.

I don't hate this:

Actually I'm leaning back towards the lurkers that I'm ok with losing if scum decide to nightkill them as conf towns.

Skybird, lilith, West9, Mario

I think we should flip one of them.

I do think lurkers are a fine idea for a color-flip for exactly the reasons he mentions.

This raises alarms. Spiff and AA are kinda proposing that we flip the same people for the same reasons, and you're praising one and vilifying the other.

VOTE: Skybird

I can go for that since I always read Skybird as scum.

Haha so I guess you're not trying. Cool.
VOTE: DGB while the skybird stuff gets sorted out.

OK so I hate awesome's posts so far.
...

Fos: Awesome

Not more than TSO's, apparently.

Don't like this.
It feels like West is leading himself into looking at only three players; one of whom is based upon a scumread that is just blatantly false, and two of whom are scum for defending him.

sup man? you don't like me or something?

[West9]

It feels like West is leading himself into looking at only three players; one of whom is based upon a scumread that is just blatantly false, and two of whom are scum for defending him.

like, it's super weird that you're using one post of mine to make a point about my playstyle is easily disproven with other posts of mine. are you not caught up? Do you want to see me flipped? I'm sincerely confused by this post.

[West9]

West-those names are a list of people not playing much if at all so I want to see their color.

Actually I'm leaning back towards the lurkers that I'm ok with losing if scum decide to nightkill them as conf towns.

Nah, I still don't see a difference in these two ideologies that's big enough for you to say that one is bad and the other is good.

[West9]

Like, I might be reading this wrong, but you're responding to a post where AA says "we shouldn't flip TSO for these reasons" by saying "the reasons AA has for wanting to flip TSO are bad." So, it's silly on a couple of levels.

[West9]

TSO has been inactive like this as town in games I've been in with him before and never as scum. I'd rather flip someone else.

Nah, I still think that interpreting this as "a perceived activity discrepancy from their meta" is ridiculous and something you're doing to try and throw shit on AA.

P-EDIT: Oh, you're talking about the Skybird vote? Is that why you quoted silverwolf's post about TSO and the skybird vote? To make a point about the skybird vote?

[West9]

In post 248, SilverWolf wrote:
TSO has been inactive like this as town in games I've been in with him before and never as scum. I'd rather flip someone else.
Nah, I still think that interpreting this as "a perceived activity discrepancy from their meta" is ridiculous and something you're doing to try and throw shit on AA.

P-EDIT: Oh, you're talking about the Skybird vote? Is that why you quoted silverwolf's post about TSO

instead of

the skybird vote? To make a point about the skybird vote?

fixed

[West9]

I shouldnt post because im not caught up but
FUCK YES, ARI IS HERE

CHEET, DRAW A VISUAL REPRESENTATION OF MY EXCITEMENT

[West9]

I am not paranoid about TSO I am pretty sure I can eventually read him. I'll vote if it comes to a deadline crunch but I'd rather flip Skybird.

hahaha you know what, maybe a color flip would be wasted here. I'll get back to you and acryon if today's flip is blue.

VOTE: Dav
Why was this push dropped? I liked pisskop and frog's points about the weak response to frogger's "you have no content."

I don't know about TSO's meta enough to fully understand what looks like a very meta-based push.

[West9]

Hey, mario, i asked you a question in 503/504 thatd id like you to answer.

VOTE: TSO

[West9]

VOTE: DGB

[West9]

west i like the vote but can you tell me more.

Sure.
This:

DGB and Skybird are useless in a really scummy way

and this:

VOTE: Skybird

I can go for that since I always read Skybird as scum.

Haha so I guess you're not trying. Cool.

haven't changed

[West9]

Alright, so I've decided to actually play this game.

Great! Cuz my read on you is pretty town right now!

DGB is clearly paying attention to the game, doing the reading, and still is actively and aggressively doing nothing. I don't understand why more people aren't voting this, or why awesome says he's a "touchstone."

[West9]

AA - why awesome over DGB?

[West9]

Im having a super hard time caring about BBT's catch up posts. It's all "none of this stuff is worth responding to because it's outdated/vague analysis, and im just posting it because i want to make a lot of noise about how i am reading the game" stuff.

[West9]

Noooooo, nooooooooooo
Damn it, Ari, are you scum?

[West9]

Noooooo, nooooooooooo
Damn it, Ari, are you scum?

Umm...no?
Lol

What makes you ask, Fievel Goes West?

this is a lame answer but: meta

[West9]

We should still do that thing where we lynch dgb tomorrow
VOTE: Awesome

[West9]

We should still do that thing where we lynch dgb tomorrow
VOTE: Awesome

anna talk to me about this?

Is it just his lack of anything that makes him scummy?

We talkin about DGB or awesome? Goof's been aggressively doing nothing. A lot of awesome's post seem insincere and full-of-nulls readlists are scummy

[West9]

VOTE: DGB

Can we guess the full hangman word? Because it's gotta be "chocolate"

[West9]

West9 - what of my posts seem insincere and what of my readslists are full of nulls??? Because i've love to hear that one.

your posts on pg 25 (from 610ish to 620ish) all seem really processed and robotic, and your readslist on 718 is two townreads, several "maybes," and a "everyone else is pea soup," which is nulls-y enough for me to dislike

[West9]

DGB flip is similar to my original desired TSO flip. I don't like its wagon at all though. So right now I'm at wanting to flip one of {West9, lilith, Aristo}. Preference majorly West.

VOTE: West

Are you accusing me of sheeping you onto the DGB wagon? If so, lol.

[West9]

Hey, Ari, actually I am curious about how your read on Awesome progressed. It seems like it went to "have they actually been scummy?" to "we should flip them" really quickly.

Did I tell you how much I love this? Because I love it.

[West9]

I would flip west. He thinks im a megalomaniac

I just don't remember you all that fondly. I think that Sweet Dreams was a hard time for everyone.

[West9]

I mean, I don't think they have been scummy. However, that doesn't mean I have a strong read there at all.
Thus they are a good flip candidate. That, plus the focus on them, would give us a great deal of info either way.

This doesn't seem like it'd be especially true for just one person, though.

[West9]

-Mario-have a bad town vibe but would love a color flip as this isn't far off from his scum play either

As I look more into this mario wagon, you should explain this to me because I don't know him.

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to flip Tammy and lynch MM4 after if Tammy doesn't redflip.

replace mm4 with dgb and i could 100% get behind this.

[West9]

this mm4 wagon is so boring though, apart from his really lame and weird "let's talk about an old game while complaining about how not enough scumhunting is happening" reaction to it.

[West9]

Hey, Anx, if you're still here:

-Mario-have a bad town vibe but would love a color flip as this isn't far off from his scum play either

As I look more into this mario wagon, you should explain this to me because I don't know him.

[West9]

prodge, ill catch up tonight hopefully

[West9]

I had a "yeah, that makes since" reaction to 1365 and 1403 that makes me cooler with flipping mario, the awesome situation makes me want to leave that alone until it gets sorted out, and I like DGB better as an "if the color flip is blue" option. Sooooo:
VOTE: mario
I have a feeling that laying out this reasoning still isn't going to stop people from calling this vote opportunistic, but whatever.
p-edit: ehhhh not gonna lie, kinda sad that this is getting to SW.

Marquis' stuff is fine, though. I'm not surprised that I'm getting flack for that awesome vote. If anyone cares, I remember not understanding the BBT wagon, disliking how it slowed the game down, and being a lot cooler with an awesome lynch and the excitement that TSO and that wagon brought to the game.

Also, these flipping phases are shit.
All were doing is town/null hunting. We should be scumhunting all the same. Flip scummy people. If they are town, awesome! If they are scum, lynch them.
Why we are doing anything different is beyond me and somewhat stalls the game despite discussions.

I honest-to-god do not believe that you think I'm scum

[West9]

i actually don't want to flip mario now because i'd rather use it on someone who'd be more of a benefit as conftown or not just a lurker if scum or someone we'd lynch or not be able to listen to anyway

did that make sense

hey, I'm assuming that this "benefit as comftown" stuff means that you're gonna be cool for me making a bumrush for DGB's lynch if I get flipped, ya?

[West9]

I think west is ideal choice

sup with you? you don't like me or somethin?

[West9]

I'm alright with the flip from an apathetic, "I don't have time for a real case" aspect.

Dude, you know me, I want to love you, but you are doing this thing where you're okay with flips for reasons that any person would be okay with any flip.

[West9]

He neighborized us and has not talked to us at all in the hood, he is not sharing reads or showing any interest in the game at all. If you notice, his BBT interactions are awful and the idea of being color flipped upsets him. He isn't doing anything in this game either. We strongly feel he needs to be flipped ASAP.

you should show me the awful bbt interactions because I skipped the iso and I'm not seeing it.

I think west is ideal choice

sup with you? you don't like me or somethin?

i like u n and to se youre town

hahaha well i hope you like compftown west, because there's little chance that scum doesn't nightkill me asap after I flip blue

And the way Mario continues to only address anything negative against him and nothing else makes me very confident he will be flipping red

i think this will help me ease into the game.

What does this mean?

that mario wagon is cancerous.

your second vote on me is literally the only West vote made today that wasn't complete shit, and the fact that you tried to you pull some bullshit earlier in the day about me sheeping you onto DGB makes it seem like you just don't like me for some reason.
Like, you can call the mario wagon "cancerous" or whatever, but let's not pretend that this West wagon doesn't hardcore suck balls.

[West9]

He neighborized us and has not talked to us at all in the hood, he is not sharing reads or showing any interest in the game at all. If you notice, his BBT interactions are awful and the idea of being color flipped upsets him. He isn't doing anything in this game either. We strongly feel he needs to be flipped ASAP.

you should show me the awful bbt interactions because I

skimmed

the iso and I'm not seeing it.

whoopsie

[West9]

dude no fuck you were lynching dgb

[West9]

How incredibly lame. Whatever.
Hi my name is compftown west, nice to meet you.

Someone should tell me why mario over dgb

Ari should be in consideration for colorflip tomorrow, scumAri is usually as quiet and composed and collected as Ari is being here.

[West9]

yo ari's a great colorflip
today's lynch is between mario and DGB
VOTE: DGB
someone tell me why i'm wrong

[West9]

no vote, mario?

also, name names. who are you accusing of deflating the awesomewagon momentum?

[West9]

you've been criticizing everyone voting you for not having reasons. why is elbrin special?

i looked back. two people said "we should lynch bbt and flip awesome tomorrow" in the way that you're describing, so if you're not trying to go after marquis or anx with this, I don't know what's up.

[West9]

haha okay so if mario doesn't want to answer my questions and the big people counterwagoning him are acryon, awesome's replacement, and Ari, then I'm going to have to
VOTE: Mario

RC, i'd better get those fucking kitten pics.

[West9]

CATCH UP WALL GO GO GO GO

Mario is scummy by associations but not by actual posts.

yeahhh, there's a lot of defensiveness and literally nothing else, especially recently. His scumhunting during all of D2 was pretty much "didn't we say we were gonna flip awesome" and "elbrin is being mean to me"

This Mario push is soft. The resistance in total to it is generally too soft for it to be an all-town wagon and the specific defenders are too blatant for them to be scum.

Can't argue that when the only defenders of BBT (who were the same people fwiw) were equally blatant.

Bad.

Gotta agree with RC here. Acryon and Davsto should explain to me why saying "this is too slow" is the wrong lesson to learn from the BBT lynch and the West flip.

Can someone, anyone, give me a "well zito my good man, X is scum cuz of these excellent reasons: A, B, C"

Well zito my good man:
DGB is scum because there are several posts where she appears that she doing the reading of the game, yet she has aggressively done nothing for the entire game
Mario is scum because, especially during this last day, he has done no scumhunting, is singularly focused on defending himself, and was the counterwagon to the fast and stupid West wagon.

^this makes it kinda clear why i switched to mario just now, but I should say things people said about DGB's meta and the "i'm sick" stuff were also factors.

Can someone tell me why AnxietyAttack isn't scummy re: 1705? Is it just residual towncred from D1? That's certainly what it feels like.

because it is burden of proficiency, you silly goose.
I am actually curious: Why is mario town? Can you answer that now that a nice shiny blueflip is asking you?

also there was that thing where Spiffeh wagon was building (from like 0 votes to four in 75 posts) and then *suddenly* 5 votes piled on West9 in 27 posts.

Yo I'm all for people talking about how shitty the West wagon was, but uuhhhhh what does this mean?

@Aristo: can you explain what you meant by "Mario is scummy by association"?

Yeah, as in when I read BBT'S ISO, I got the feeling they were linked.

Ari wtf this is a great reason to scumread someone. I've fuckin caught you as scum based on type of shit alone before. join me on the mario wagon plz.

DGB was on the BBT wagon fairly early. But then right before he got lynched, she quoted him and said "this is a townie sentiment." but made no argument against his lynch/didn't try to push us off the wagon/didn't unvote.

That is weird. I think it'd be shadier if he'd flipped town tho.

Maybe not. There was a counterwagon (on you, actually!) that grew really fast was pretty strong right up until BBT died.

well elbirn is making up reasons to scumread me?
and when one of his reasons is proved as blatant bs he says "nvm i was just being snarky"?

VOTE: BBT

Now

it's L1.

So NOBODY misses this, it's L1. Do not hammer unless that is your full intent.

Finally decides to bus, but really wants people to think before they hammer his buddy.

idk, it's pretty clear that this is snarky

and then a bunch of SW/ac stuff happened that I don't want to read again
btw, ari, I really appreciate how you, regardless of alignment, always work hard to defuse tense situations.

[West9]

well elbirn is making up reasons to scumread me?
and when one of his reasons is proved as blatant bs he says "nvm i was just being snarky"?

VOTE: BBT

Now

it's L1.

So NOBODY misses this, it's L1. Do not hammer unless that is your full intent.

Finally decides to bus, but really wants people to think before they hammer his buddy.

idk, it's pretty clear that this is snarky

Oh and I think I agree with Elbirn in this exchange as well:

4. Oh come on that's pure BS and you KNOW IT. IT'S KINDA COMMON PROTOCOL TO WARN PEOPLE THAT SOMEONE IS AT L-1 AND THEY NEED TO THINK BEFORE ENDING THE DAY.

4. Yeah that was me being a little snarky. Your over reaction is fun though.

[West9]

Actually, it wasn't BBT at all. The main driver was TSO, who is now dead and town.
The others on it were AA, pisskop, marquis, spiffeh, and west (hi that's me)

Now that I'm reading it again, once Awesome replied and was like "my hydra partner bailed so don't shit on me for being inactive," it deflated super quickly and BBT was hammered right away.

Also, I think I misunderstood lilith. DGB said that thing about the "townie sentiment" before the counterwagon even began, so I'm 100% wrong and it had nothing to do with it. DGB didn't say anything during the awesome momentum. Sorry for the backpedal but uhhhh i'm town what r u gonna do about it.

[West9]

Yo I'm all for people talking about how shitty the West wagon was, but uuhhhhh what does this mean?

Basically it looked more like a panicked "let's get the flip away from Mario" than anything else to me.

yeah i agree so uh why no mario vote?

[West9]

Very polite and gentle reminder that this is a game for fun and stuff [despite how awful mafia is in general q.q]. I'd really rather this not escalate to the point I need to get involved.

Drawing suggestion: the chillest of pills

[West9]

Yo I'm all for people talking about how shitty the West wagon was, but uuhhhhh what does this mean?

Basically it looked more like a panicked "let's get the flip away from Mario" than anything else to me.

yeah i agree so uh why no mario vote?

Sorry, "let's get the flip away from Spiffeh"

lol what?
1475 - no votes on spiffeh
1479 - start of West wagon

[West9]

like even when there was a surge of votes on me couple of pages later (1561 to 1594), it was the Spiffeh voters who switched to me.

[West9]

Except it's not burden of proficiency. Burden of proficiency would be me assuming they should be catching scum because they are good; I'm not doing that. I am assuming they know better than to be voting for someone based on the reasoning they are, as well as know better than to make an accusation about me attempting to discredit them and then refusing to back up the statement when confronted. These are very different things, and you and Ari are both attempting to paint my statements with the wrong brush (one that already has its own flaws actually).

Okay so it's not mafiascum-wiki definition of "burden of proficiency," but I find this vague "I'm assuming they know better" to be bad for a similar reason.
You not wanting to talk about whether or not you townread mario and instead being laser-focused on their reasoning is a decent argument for the case of you trying to discredit them.

[West9]

whoops meant to pair this up with the last post

This Mario push is soft. The resistance in total to it is generally too soft for it to be an all-town wagon and the specific defenders are too blatant for them to be scum.

Can't argue that when the only defenders of BBT (who were the same people fwiw) were equally blatant.

Bad.

Gotta agree with RC here. Acryon and Davsto should explain to me why saying "this is too slow" is the wrong lesson to learn from the BBT lynch and the West flip.

If you agree here, mind pointing me to the only defenders of the BBT wagon, who are also the same people against the Mario wagon? RC had trouble with this, so maybe you could help.

I'm just looking at votecount rn, but you, Awesome-slot, pisskop, and also technically me. Skimming through those isos, what they're saying about BBT and the wagon, the theme of "this would be a more exciting lynch if it were on scum" is similar to some of the mario resistance right now.

[West9]

yeah idk what RC is talking about with Ari being anti-BBT tho

[West9]

anti-BBT

lynch

, excuse me

[West9]

Here's how I see it:

Your argument sucks

^attacking the argument

Your argument sucks and I think you're better players than your argument is leading on.

VOTE: Anxiety Attack

^attempting to discredit them by attacking the argument.


You have some okay points about RC's wording that I don't really care about because I think the parallels between the resistance to BBTlynch and Mariolynch are more important.
The defenders of BBT then and the defenders of Mario now are being just as blatant with that specific point, which is really the main anti mario lynch argument, as it was the main anti BBT lynch argument.

[West9]

idk i still think of "nobody is defending mario but some people are attacking mario's attackers" as super encouraging

[West9]

I'm a little hesitant on Mario now because his reactions early on to scumreads/people wanting to color flip him seem really calm and seem town.

the ones from early D2? I remember his first response being a really weird conversation with RC that I didn't like

[West9]

VOTE: hiplop

booooooooooo

[West9]

So awesome is the day 1 counter wagon to a scum lynch, and there are still people saying awesome is scum. Nah.

i'm actually not convinced that the awesome counterwagon was backed by scum. You're townreading awesome/zito, right? Talk to me a little bit about that.

[West9]

U still votin zito? Sup with that, man?

[West9]

idk i still think of "nobody is defending mario but some people are attacking mario's attackers" as super encouraging

How? If people are attacking my attackers that doesn't mean they can't think my attackers are scummy.

do yooooOOOOOoou think your attackers are scummy?

BTW I really don't like people misrepping my point on Elbirn!

feel free to de-misrep then

[West9]

So awesome is the day 1 counter wagon to a scum lynch, and there are still people saying awesome is scum. Nah.

i'm actually not convinced that the awesome counterwagon was backed by scum. You're townreading awesome/zito, right? Talk to me a little bit about that.

So bbt, scum roleblocker, is going down in flames. But the wagon that sprung up alongside his wasn't backed by scum? Lol?

I honestly think it rose and died really quickly for it to have been the official Scum-Backed Counterwagon™

[West9]

i mean, shit, i might be biased because i was on it and agreed with what TSO was saying at the time about how disconcerting it was that the game had slowed down so much

[West9]

The main driver was TSO, who is now dead and town.
The others on it were AA, pisskop, marquis, spiffeh, and west (hi that's me)

[West9]

also

Here you go RC.
Sorry to keep you waiting.

[West9]

or you could read the wagon. when i say it rose and fell quickly, i mean like "rose to peak size in one page and deflated in three"
it starts here - 1079

[West9]

yawn
someone give me the cliff notes of the last like 5 pages

[West9]

hey i have an idea uhhhhh lets lynch mario

[West9]

We flip someone who is generally considered town but we wouldn't cry about losing.

[West9]

If this is a wagon on town, scum-kop wants to distance himself from the wagon by suggesting he doesn't want it. Now that he's done so he probably thinks he's free to do as he pleases, and later hop on over to the wagon, with the justification of "well I didn't want this, but it was inevitable lol"

i'm not the biggest pisskop fan, but this specific point is silly. Pisskop said that he wasn't the feeling the mario wagon when the wagon was at L-1. This idea that he was waiting to "later hop on over to the wagon" makes absolutely no sense.

[West9]

pisskop may be scum but mario is scum and is a better lynch for today by a mile

[West9]

pisskop's reaction to his wagon is p. bad

But I think he's done this before as town so idk

Shame on you. This wagon is terribad; most suddenly flahswagons on players with no prior case on them are. This is like compromise lynching.

you still shouldn't be lynched today but, still, shut up

[West9]

ty, sorry i told you to shut up, im still a little butthurt about my flip

[West9]

is that a euphemism?

[West9]

i still have no idea what flying elephant means. i checked urban dictionary but that definition is gross.

[West9]

mario r u call me a dumbo
how rude

pedit: oh okay

[West9]

The fact that your main point about pisskop is objectively wrong is something i kinda thought youd address, elbirn

[West9]

I don't really know why I'm not dead either, but whatever. dgb is scum and dying and im happy about that.

we should save the really role-spec-heavy colorflips for after scumdgb dies, just in case she has a role description that can help fill in some blanks.

hey someone who has time should iso through dgb and bbt and see if there are any players with whom both had weird interactions.

[West9]

ah god i've been really busy im sorry for not contributing today

[West9]

how dare u

[West9]

VOTE: papa zito

This slot being the purple one yesterday still makes the most sense to me. I have no idea why we flipped Elbirn.

^ i remember agreeing a lot with this.

i might have skimmed past most of the color/role spec stuff yesterday, but scum purposefully painting their other member purple seems like the stupidest thing they could have done if we all came to the consensus yesterday that purple = scum.

why are we colorfliping spiff?

[West9]

Well, I'll theorize here I guess.

If West has wet paint, I'd guess it's from being painted Red. It depends how long paint is wet for really. But I'd think he'd have been painted in anticipation of a reflip, since most of those who advocated for it yesterday live still.

Fire may be alright to flip, a purple induces wine for what the original colour was, blue and he's cleared.

I know I started blue, so I expect a blue flip.
If I am purple, townies for sure get painted.

So Fire would probably tell us the most, imo.

I'm still worried when I think about how stupid scum would have to be to purposefully paint themselves, and that paranoia makes me really think that I'm the one with the wet paint, but I really like this and agree with it, so I'm gonna go with Ari.

If Fire ends up being blue, then I'm probably purple, so we should A) kill hiplop if enough people trust me or B) kill me so that everyone trusts me and then kill hiplop.

[West9]

A) kill hiplop if enough people trust me

can you explain what this business is about plz

If Firebringer is blue then I'm probably purple.
If I'm purple, then this:

shouldnt we be flipping west "coastin on a blue flip" 9

VOTE: west9

is scummy scummy scum scum

[West9]

i mean i guess ari could be purple but that makes less sense to me

[West9]

And again, we know there are 2 purple players and 9 blue.

None of these players can be painted red, because we know there are no reds. So there's no possibility that scum is framing one of these 3. There necessarily must be a player in here who is scum painted blue/purple.

Oh shit I completely didn't think about that "no reds" thing.

Ok then, yeah VOTE: Firebringer

[West9]

i mean i guess ari could be purple but that makes less sense to me

Why does that make less sense?

at this point i think he's more likely to be town than not, and (this is a little bit wifom-y) I don't really see scum having that much of a reason to paint him.

[West9]

west9 is confscum, guys.

ooh this is interesting. how so?

[West9]

pfffffffffokay

[West9]

no really i want to know

[West9]

I'm honestly probably the best lynch today. I don't think that me living until endgame is good for town, and scum definitely painted me if they can paint people (which I have no idea if they can or can't, that whole "no reds" thing really fucks that shit up)

I think hiplop is scum, but we really kinda have to kill me or Ari today.

[West9]

Flipping me is a waste of what is essentially a public cop.

We have like two or three investigation roles claimed at this point, so you should talk about whatever it is you're talking about

[West9]

no i dont have a guilty

VOTE: west9

hes just scum

how dare you blue ball me on this

[West9]

Cheet,

you should update this with all of the replacements:

[West9]

Flipping me is a waste of what is essentially a public cop.

We have like two or three investigation roles claimed at this point, so you should talk about whatever it is you're talking about

?

All I was saying there is that I'm super fucking easy to read - especially with some of the players in this playerlist - and that the colour-flipping first half of the day mechanic would be a waste on me because I'm easy to read

haha whoops, that was the wrong quote. Im still pretty sure youve softclaimed some sort of investigative role?

[West9]

Not investigative.

got it, no more questions

Then why would you broadcast that fact

thought it was investigative, thought it was weird, done talking now

[West9]

I still think I should die today

if I'm blue, we learn that purple is probably scum and you all kill purplescum Ari.
if I'm purple, we learn that scum can paint town and you all kill probablyscum hiplop.
either way, we get rid of the possibility of reasonably-suspected townWest living until endgame.

i'm not voting for myself though because self voting is silly and I'm still kinda hoping someone is gonna come forward with information that doesn't make my death the 100% best course of action that it is right now.

[West9]

Actually I always see suggesting your own death as a scum tell

Soo there's that now.

am i wrong tho

[West9]

(a)
if I'm blue, we learn that purple is probably scum and you all kill purplescum Ari.
(b1)
if I'm purple, we learn that scum can paint town
(b2)
and you all kill probablyscum hiplop.
(c)
either way, we get rid of the possibility of reasonably-suspected townWest living until endgame.

Points (a) and (b1) absolutely also apply to townAri, no question.

Points (b2) and (c) don't.
Hiplop is maybescum now, and probablyscum if I flip purple.
townAri living to endgame is a much less serious problem than West living to endgame. The paranoia surrounding me is 100% more distracting than whatever paranoia is surrounding him.

[West9]

Like I get that I should be going hardcore, "Ari is scum! Ari is scum!" but I really think me having wet paint would make a whole lotta sense, and I'd rather resolve that than push for an Ari lynch.

And, really, am I wrong for thinking out the box from where I stay?

[West9]

Am I wrong for saying that I choose another way?

[West9]

Everybody else playin mafia.

cheet, draw me not doin what everybody else doin
Because everybody doin what they all do.

[West9]

@mod: zito should be voting ari?

Does anyone have a reason for preferring one over the other?

i prefer myself for the reasons ive stated and am sad that nobody's come up with a better plan than mine.

[West9]

Cheet wouldnt be silly enough to put important information in the picture and not in the flip.

Hey im gonna ask a question that ive sorta been asking indirectly: yes/no, do people think i should die today,

[West9]

That should be a question mark and not a comma

[West9]

I really think me having wet paint would make a whole lotta sense, and I'd rather resolve that than push for an Ari lynch.

This is still true

[West9]

Wouldn't we have to lynch all 3 of you to prove that?

if someone can give me a good reason why scum would frame ari and not me, ill leak my tiger nudes

[West9]

Easier to flip someone who hasn't been flipped than someone who has already flipped blue?

idk, I think me not being dead puts a wrench into that one.

[West9]

haha oh i'm definitely not scum. but I shouldn't be alive during endgame.

pedit these are weird circumstances, elbirn, so I hope you won't be upset when my flip doesn't prove your theory.

[West9]

hey sorry I wasn't townie enough to be a confirmed town blueflip

but, you know, if one thing I know
I'll fall but I'll grow
I'm walking down this lonely road
this road that I call home

[West9]

cheet i luv u don't let anything get you down mafia is stupid & you're the best.