California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[VitaminR]

/confirm

[VitaminR]

foolinc, if you had read the second post carefully, you would have noticed that the game is based only (very) loosely on the Count of Monte Cristo.

Apart from the usual reasons to not needlessly speculate about the set up, we have the additional reason of having nearly nothing to go on.

I agree with this man.

For the moment, I am going to go with an Oman vote. I'm not too fond of his Skruffs vote. Also, the winged kitten in his avatar scares me.

Vote: Oman

[VitaminR]

I'm not particularly keen on how quick Skruffs is to use the word "misrepresentation." Having a different point of view or even misunderstanding something is not misrepresentation.

[VitaminR]

LML - why don't you have no lynch in yours? Taking your point forward, isn't it odd that you would rather see ANYONE get lynched then go to a no lynch? That strikes me as blood thirsty.

No, that's standard town thinking.

If I am understanding you correctly (and you have already decided that I do not understand anything), you seem to be saying that I am playing favoritism with MGM, when I am not. If you were to actually consider things, you would see that I would rather see MGM get lynched before anyone I did not place on my list at all. If I was playing favoritism, I would have pue everyone in front of MGM, or not included him in the list at all.

This discussion is based on different views of the implications of the voting preferences rather than any real disagreement.

Lastly, VitaminR:
Misrepresentation:
He portrayed MOS's vote in a way that was not true. That is a misrepresentation.

He never said MoS' vote was anything it wasn't. He just offered his opinion on the way in which MoS voted.

He asked Oman why he didn't vote for me, when Oman had. That is a misrepresentation.

Erm... no, that is what we call a mistake. Misrepresentation is wilful. Unless you're arguing that LML was trying to get us all to think that Oman didn't vote for you (which seems a fruitless endeavour at best), that is not misrepresentation.

And the chaff he's spewing about me about putting MGM after no lynch, that is also a misrepresentation.

No, that was based on the fact that you have different views of the implication of putting someone after No Lynch.

Unless you think LML is just shooting from the hip and just not paying attention, in which case, it Might be considered

misunderstanding

, but I do not understand why you would immediately assume he had no idea what he was saying and doing.

Which do you think it is?

I think it is a different point of view.

I don't like your defensiveness or OMGUS one bit.

Unvote: Oman,
Vote: Skruffs

[VitaminR]

Also interesting: VitaminR immediately jumping to answer questions I have posited to LML, while at the same time, supposedly, voting me for putting MGM after no lynch. Please look back on that in later days, everyone.

I didn't vote you for putting MGM after no lynch...

Misrepresent: to represent incorrectly, improperly, or falsely.
phail.

Yay, dictionary quotes. Regardless of the official definition, we both know the pragmatic meaning of 'misrepresentation' in a mafia game, especially when you're accusing someone of it, includes intent. How can you find LML scummy for misrepresentation and then argue that misrepresentation isn't wilful?

The reasons for voting me? FOR BEING DEFENSIVE.
Hmm. I'm really sorry, VitaminR. I thought when a townie had four.. no wait five with your vote, votes on him 3 pages into the game for only wanting to lynch a few of the possible suspects for STATED REASONS, that he had the right to

defend himself

.
IF it is scummy for a townie

not

to roll over and take it, please state up now, I'd hate to complicate your wagoning with points of defense. I can be quiet and let you get me lynched if you want.

What? I didn't vote you for defending yourself (and I don't like how MGM copies this blindly later, btw). I voted you for defensive

ness

, the fact that you respond to an accusation by getting overly defensive, slinging wild accusations around instead of calmly answering the questions raised.

MoS always tries to cast a truly random vote. I don't think it's scummy.

I'm not particularly fond of Adele's LML vote. She seems to be voting him for his point of view concerning random votes. That seems a policy disagreement rather than anything to do with alignment.

I agree with MGM about Condorcet voting.

[VitaminR]

I don't much like the jeep vote here. It kinda feels like DP pushed the disagreement between jeep and him to the point where he could accuse jeep of something. It is essentially a strategy disagreement. The accusation of "backpeddling" seems an attempt to turn that into more than it really is.

Vote: Dragon Phoenix

, Skruffs

[VitaminR]

EBWODP:

Vote: Dragon Phoenix

, Skruffs, MGM

[VitaminR]

*shrug*

I didn't buy it.

[VitaminR]

So you're saying he wasn't backpeddeling?

I suppose, on first glance, it just didn't seem that significant to me whether jeep was inconsistent. People are. Also, I tend to find DP scummy.

Re-reading, though, I've somewhat changed my mind.

Vote: Skruffs

[VitaminR]

MoS is being metascummy, LmL was (in my opinion) defending him. I'm choosing to make a big deal out of it.

Once more: my problem isn't that MoS didn't use the dice tags - he couldn't. It's not that he did - he didn't. It's that he pseudo-used it, and tried to "prove" that he had (see his later explanation and overuse of the term "retarded" for further details).

Random voting is never helpful to the town. It only serves to distract the town as they chase after people for making "random" votes. My point is, you cannot say that I am scum based on this. The logic doesn't work out, at all. If I am scum because I tried to make a truly random vote, then I am scum in every game, and this is already proven false. It doesn't matter whether or not you like the tactic. That doesn't change the fact that you can't try to prove me scummy because of it.

I agree with this and it is largely what bothers me about Adele's first vote. In fact, I'll put her on my list.

I also like Zindaras' xyzzy vote. I think MGM's statement about his preference not to use Condorcet voting does not really imply that other people shouldn't at all. I also didn't like jeep's interpreting it like this.

Vote: Skruffs

, Adele, xyzzy, jeep

[VitaminR]

It rubs me the wrong way. MGM, I'm kinda suprised it doesn't make you uneasy.

While I tend to agree with you in principle, at this point it isn't that big of a problem (if it is at all). We have enough people in the game right now that it doesn't matter. If we had less people, I'd be more concerned.

I agree. On top of that, we don't have any real evidence that Skruffs has actively overlooked Thesp. If Thesp had posted something suspicious or ambiguously suspicious, it would be more important. I've greeted plenty of people with that kind of enthusiasm.

[VitaminR]

Just got off a long flight, so I'm not sure what's going on at all. I'll read through the thread once I have more time and energy.

I'll try to get something coherent up soon.

[VitaminR]

Not something I'd worry about, but since it came two posts after he first voted Skruffs, and this posts doesn't appear to make him change that vote.

Well that part of Skruffs' behaviour has little to do with why I'm voting him. That's why...

I don't like the recent LML wagon that has developed. LML has been loud and aggressive, but, well, he always is. There doesn't really seem to be all that much behind it.

I like Tamuz' entry in the game. foolinc seems like a good player to start poking.

[VitaminR]

LoudmouthLee even offered to, himself, while ignoring mine. And now I am curious as to what 'other reasons' other than my behavior, VitaminR is voting for me for.

I don't think you should name claim. Fine, I'll go into why I think your suspicious. I already indicated it (by going through your post and indicating where I thought you were wrong, e.g. misuse of the word misrepresentation).

1) Your overdefensiveness. Your response to LML was filled with bad accusations and bad argumentation.
2) I disagree with most of your suspicions. They seem ill-founded and overly absolute.
3) The LML vote came at a weird time and I don't agree with it. Opportunistic.

Care to expand on this, VitaminR? I'm really curious what 'defensiveness' is, if it's not part of someone's behavior. Is it part of the digestive system? Please remember, I'm rather stupid, so talk in small little words so that I can understand.

What are you talking about? I said, in response to a discussion of your analysis of Thesp, that I wasn't bothered by "that part" of your behaviour. I didn't say that I wasn't bothered by your behaviour. I just didn't mind one comment you made.

LML has been loud and aggressive, but, well, he always is.

Do you think this is why he's being voted?

Largely. It seems to me that the fact that LML was vocal about what he saw as scummy is mostly what led to this position. He just picked out a few things and voted people for them. I don't see it.

[VitaminR]

VitaminR:
I understand now. Some of my behavior is cool, but some of it you don't like. You didn't say that at first, of course, which is why you were misunderstood, but now I understand. You think that some of my behavior (like being defensive when people are calling me stupid and wagoning me for no apparent reason) is BAD, and some it is

I did say that at first. Pointless discussion, though.

Huh. That's interesting, because it's already been discussed that your initial posts in the wagon to get Skruffs lynched were mostly just baiting me. So to vote me for taking bait that YOU set, that's odd. But allright. This is a 'type

Regardless of what you may think, it wasn't baiting you.

Which is okay... if LML does it, right? Because that's how LML is.

I don't think LML did that.

The LML vote came right after I realized the deadline was getting close, after a week of him being obnoxious with ill-founded accusations and overly absolute statements about various players in the game. I was at five votes, he was at four. He was also voting me with no intentions to change. I voted him. Call that opportunistic, if you want..

That's fair enough.

You can just keep your vote on me for misusing the word "misrepresentation" and being defensive, VitR. After all,

You don't want me to claim, you just want me to die.

The reason I don't want you to claim is because I don't think there are enough people on your wagon to warrant it.

[VitaminR]

Pooky's Post 77 made me laugh, but I sortof see where he's coming from. Skruffs' logic often comes across as being odd in others' eyes. (Sidenote: I think, though, it has more to do with the presentation than the logic itself sometimes, though. But that is neither here nor there.) In fact, I was just thinking of asking VitR if he had taken Skruffs' C&H play into account when launching his Post 74 offensive. VitR? What is your meta on Skruffs, and how does that affect your opinion of him?

Except for certain moments in C&H, Skruffs has seemed quite reasonable to me in the games I've played with him. To me, when he starts shouting more than he is thinking is when something is off (I got this feeling towards the end of Mostly Mute). Mostly, though, I suppose I don't have that much experience with Skruffsscum.

[VitaminR]

^ouch^. Thats a hella scummy post right there...
Appeal to Emotion in bucketloads!

I actually found this quite scummy. Endorsing a wagon without voting, but using the "appeal to emotion"-justification to kick someone when they're down.

No. Not at all. It's not him being vocal and loud about it. It's what he's accusing people of. I don't like him saying that a question about a bah post is scummy. I don't like him saying that MoS went out of his way to look like dice tags, even though it has been stated MULTIPLE times that it would take all of three minutes to do so.

The latter part of your sentence isn't really true. LML is voting MoS because he said it looked contrived. That has little to do with how long it takes. It seems strange to vote someone purely for disagreeing with their argumentation, especially since he hasn't really pushed the Zindy thing all that much.

I'm going to throw out a complete Condorcet list according to my gut feelings.

Vote: Skruffs

, Battle Mage, IH, Adele, [xyzzy, Tamuz, foolinc] [Zindaras, LML, Gaspar, Talitha], Thesp, Dragon Phoenix, logicticus, Pooky, [PlaysWithSquirrels, Cubsfan4ever, MGM, CES]

[VitaminR]

I guess that means I should amend my list. I'm also moving DP down a few notches (I liked his last post).

Also, Gaspar, I think you left me off your list.

Vote: Skruffs

, IH, Adele, [xyzzy, Tamuz, foolinc] [Zindaras, LML, Gaspar, Talitha], Thesp, logicticus, Pooky, [Dragon Phoenix, PlaysWithSquirrels, Cubsfan4ever, MGM, CES, Battle Mage]

[VitaminR]

Skruffs, stop trying to manufacture stuff against me.

VitaminR

If it wasn't baiting me, what was it?

Giving my opinion?

Did you think LML's change of heart was genuine?

Yes, it seems genuine enough to me at the moment.

Why have you been on LML's side the entire day? You've defended his actions constantly, but never once directed a question to him. How can you be so sure that he is town that you basically have no interest in talking to him?

I haven't agreed with everything he's done, but yeah, I think he's pro-town. The fact that I haven't directed a question at him means nothing. There are plenty of players I haven't asked anything. It just means I didn't particularly feel there were any explanations missing on his part.

Also, you would still rather lynch a cop role than no lynch?

Fairly irrelevant, since it's not going to happen, but yes, I don't find BM's claim that convincing.

Side note to future readers: VitaminR and Cubs playing similarly 'behind' other, more obvious players.

Right, because I've used LML's reasoning to back up every accusation I've made. Oh wait, I haven't done that once. Even you I went after for my own reasons.

BM, if you find my Skruffs vote difficult to understand, then indicate what part of my reasoning you disagree with. Similarly, if you find my Condorcet list "dumbfounding," ask me to explain.

Vitr-how do you suppose my comments are endorsing a wagon, when i have made it quite clear that LML is not the best lynch today. At this rate, you will accuse anyone who points out scumtells, but doesnt immediately hop on a BW, to be scummy, which is completely ridiculous.

You're exaggerating my point here. You brought something to attention that pushed the wagon forward. At the same time, you didn't want LML lynched. Seems like you're avoiding responsibility to me. That doesn't make it an absolute.

[VitaminR]

Anyways, Skruffs are we really to believe you got roleblocked, or are you just scum seeing how far you can yank us along on your RC.

vote: MGM

, Skruffs

This is bad.

I actually believe MGM. It seems way too obvious a thing anyway. Something about foolinc's recent comment on that strikes me as off.

Vote: Adele

, Tamuz, foolinc

[VitaminR]

VitminR, is there a significant difference between a 'soft claim' and a 'role claim'?

Yes... I think so.

I'm starting to change my mind about IH. He seems more sincere today for some reason.

I'm not fond of the MGM vote and I'm going to make a few gut changes to my vote.

Vote: Adele

, foolinc, logicticus, Tamuz, Dani Banani

[VitaminR]

The CES comment is something I can see him do as town quite easily. Null tell, in my opinion.

I don't like logicticus blowing this somewhat out of proportion and putting another MGM vote (who I still don't really suspect at all...).

I like IH's scrutiny of logicticus over this.

I think Pooky has a good point about being non-committal and I'm moving Talitha up my list.

Vote: Adele

, logicticus, Tamuz, Dani Banani, foolinc, Talitha, [Skruffs, IH, LML], [Zindaras, Gaspar, Thesp] [MGM, Dragon Phoenix, CES, Pooky]

[VitaminR]

Town.

[VitaminR]

Jeep/BM had claimed an information role and it isn't all that clear who(dayvig or poisoner most likely) killed xyzzy, foolinc. That looks like a useless line of inquiry.

*agrees*

Now, perhaps I'm a little slower than that, but to read MGM's post (almost exclusively), ignore all other posts, look at his posts in the filter, and find the correct name on wikipedia, with their posts 8 minutes apart is just not innocent to me.

qft, actually. That does seem hella unlikely.

Are you trying to suppose that Logiticus and MGM are Scumbuddies who worked out MGM's claim so that they would be online at nearly the same time and Logiticus could 'find' information that was clearly present to all of us in an attempt to clear him?

Because thats ridiculous.

Yes, it is. Somewhat unridiculous, though, is mgm planning N0 to claim Eugenie if challenged, and mentioning that he'd do so in the way that he eventually did. Logic,

happening

to be online when mgm claimed and noticing the "E" and checking from there, naturally realised that mgm claimed as planned immediately and alerts the world to make his buddy safe as fast as possible, while giving the external-validation thing. hmm.

I don't like this at all. That is really reaching. I really have a strong feeling Adele is scum.

This is actually starting to make me feel better about logicticus.

I also like Gaspar's scrutiny of foolinc and I'd like to see whether foolinc can really back up his list.

DP's run-down seems consistent and I agree with a lot of what he says. It re-inforces my feeling that he's pro-town. Also moving LML down a bit. His latest posts strike me as genuine.

Vote: Adele

, foolinc, Tamuz, Dani Banani, Talitha, logicticus, [Skruffs, IH], [Zindaras, LML, Gaspar, Thesp] [Pooky, MGM, Dragon Phoenix, CES]

[VitaminR]

(Glork.)

Oh my god. LmL is exactly right in that we should

ABSOLUTELY NOT

be discussing why BattleMage died last night.

I could think of probably a dozen different possibilities. The fact that people keep coming into the thread and suggesting one or two possibilites gives off an awful lot of info.

I agree completely.

Nothing is stopping the doctor from mixing with the crowd and posing alternate possibilities himself. Unless their posts outright say what they did, I don't think they tell much about the poster's role.

The danger lies mostly in the fact that we don't know what information the scum have. Someone might say something that looks relatively innocuous now, but that will be, or will later be, significant to scum.

There's just no reason to discuss this now. It doesn't give us any certainty and it distracts from scumhunting.

[VitaminR]

Nightkill analysis isn't the most useful line of inquiry, but I certainly wouldn't call it useless. Whenever I'm scum, I certainly do prefer to kill people who are suspicious of me, 'cause the town totally lets me get away with it and because it isn't all that easy to interpret.

I don't know, I personally use a mixture of both. Sometimes I make a WIFOM kill and sometimes I don't. Regardless, for Night 1 it is incredibly difficult to form an accurate picture of what might be involved in the scum discussion. We have no information about the type of scum we're dealing with, for instance.

[VitaminR]

IH, this?

Anyways, Skruffs are we really to believe you got roleblocked, or are you just scum seeing how far you can yank us along on your RC.

vote: MGM

, Skruffs

This is bad.

I actually believe MGM. It seems way too obvious a thing anyway. Something about foolinc's recent comment on that strikes me as off.

Vote: Adele

, Tamuz, foolinc

What is so bad about that? Tamuz was reaching there and I don't think MGM is scum.

MrBuddyLee, woo!

Welcome to the game. I think you are scum.

[VitaminR]

I believe Pooky and I don't think his padding was a really big deal.

I'm really starting to agree with Gaspar on IH. I don't think his theories or suspicions are necessarily that convincing, but I'm getting the same pro-town IH impression.

[VitaminR]

I don't have much time right now, I've had a busy couple of days. I'll just respond to this and I'll try to get something more substantial up tomorrow.

VitR, you trust Mgm significantly. His suspicions are about as different from yours as can be. Can you explain what it is about him you trust this game, and why you think your suspicions differ so greatly?

Nothing he has done this game has worried me, to put it simply. I'm not worried by the difference in suspicions. I don't see that as that unlikely between pro-town players.

The case against him isn't that strong and the readiness with which people seem to switch to him is also something that makes me feel better about MGM.

[VitaminR]

IH is telling the truth, I think.

Thesp's death makes LML less likely to be scum in my eyes. Thesp pushed him pretty hard from the start.

I agree with Zindaras that there's something odd in Talitha's posts. She's going up on my list and he's going down. Also moving foolinc down.

MBL needs to die today.

Vote: MBL

, Talitha, Tamuz, Dani Banani, logicticus, Gaspar, foolinc, IH, [Zindaras, LML] [Dragon Phoenix, CES]

[VitaminR]

PS: MGM was a townie with a rolename. IH is a townie without a rolename? Pass.

This seems an overly simplistic way to see it.

Talitha is right. If you're a member of a 3-man mafia in a game this size, you'd expect there to be another.

That still makes it strange that Talitha made the assumption, especially seeing the Night 1 kills. She talked about it as if it was certain.

[VitaminR]

No, I really don't. I need to be evaluated today, just like you and everyone else needs to be evaluated today. You've had about five real-life days worth of posts to evaluate me on since I replaced in, and I was packing and moving 1000 miles but still found time to do a skim and full read of the game and post dozens of thoughts covering most every player in some detail. So please forgive me if I express disdain for your complete and utter lack of an argument. I also know you're quality scum, VitR, and I know you know that I know that. So I'm watching you, and I expect pro-town play from you to have a different tenor than what I'm seeing.

Don't misunderstand me, it's not based on anything you've done. I highlighted what bothered me about Adele.

Talitha, it was this quote:

It's slightly odd, and makes you look slightly more suspicious, but each scum group might have thought the other group would kill you.

The assumption that there are two scum groups seems made too readily here.

[VitaminR]

I agree that you deserve a more extensive case. I fully intend to put one up.

[VitaminR]

Heh. That is a shame.

Right, the case on Adele.

1) The first problem I have with her play is exemplified by this:

Wow, I feel pretty much the opposite. What's the point of truly random votes, and especially of proven random votes? The accusation of divestment of responsibility is something I very much agree with. Prior to this trend of dice-tags (even if this is an imaginary time period), a "random" vote meant "vote that I am claiming is random, but could possibly be merely arbitrary, or even- ooh! - malicious". When a few of these stacked up on someone, the question as to whether there are scumzars on the wagon, either to harm or (yay wifom) clear someone is a kickstart for discussion.

[. . . ]

For wilfully ignoring this and saying instead that people should just tick the "good, safe townie" boxes rather than do anything productive... yeah.

Vote: LoudmouthLee

, Mastermind of Sin

She went after LML for what was essentially a policy disagreement. LML pointed out his consistency on this subject across game and I feel that in voting him she confused scumminess with disagreement.

I also don't like how this discussion was her only real contribution to the game for quite a while.

2) This:

I've convinced myself. It was the "if I mention a second family, this implies that there is a first" that did it. I'm with Skruffs.

vote: Dragon Phoenix

She throws away all of her smallish Condorcet list to come back with this. Her reason was actually the phrase she quoted there. It seems a badly motivated, opportunistic vote to me. I also happen to think DP town.

3) A small, "self-depreciating" tell:

I'm finding it bloody hard to keep up with reading the game, let alone sorting out my feelings for twenty different people. I'm very bright in some ways and less bright in others; keeping all this clear is tough for me and I don't often play large games for that reason. I'm giving my all, and will improve over the next few game days, but this is not a game-specific problem but a game-size-specific problem.

We've come up on the deadline awfully fast. I can't imagine at this stage that I'll convince anyone of anything, nor that anyone (except, perhaps, the mafia) wants a no-lynch, so I'll sheep. I commit to return within 24 hours and place a vote on whoever's leading, unless there are two people credibly close to lynch, in which case I will judge the case against each and vote for the scummier-looking, with a justification included.

4) And finally (she didn't post that much):

Now, perhaps I'm a little slower than that, but to read MGM's post (almost exclusively), ignore all other posts, look at his posts in the filter, and find the correct name on wikipedia, with their posts 8 minutes apart is just not innocent to me.

qft, actually. That does seem hella unlikely.

Are you trying to suppose that Logiticus and MGM are Scumbuddies who worked out MGM's claim so that they would be online at nearly the same time and Logiticus could 'find' information that was clearly present to all of us in an attempt to clear him?

Because thats ridiculous.

Yes, it is. Somewhat unridiculous, though, is mgm planning N0 to claim Eugenie if challenged, and mentioning that he'd do so in the way that he eventually did. Logic,

happening

to be online when mgm claimed and noticing the "E" and checking from there, naturally realised that mgm claimed as planned immediately and alerts the world to make his buddy safe as fast as possible, while giving the external-validation thing. hmm.

The reasoning employed here is just really weak and I think she can do a lot better.

[VitaminR]

Welcome to the game and happy birthday!

Agreed on all counts. Now the question is--do I have to die today or am I merely a candidate for dying today? Because I'd like to think that if I'm in the process of catching scum, that you might realize that Adele's play is somewhat less relevant than mine.

Well, alright. I'll let you live for another few pages.

Of course I'm open to changing my mind. I'd like to see more of you to make sure my impression of Adele is the right one. I was just making it clear what my thoughts are at the moment.

[VitaminR]

The lace thing is nonsense, in my opinion.

go and check your role PM then tell me that 'Innocent Fresnino' isn't a filler for a proper name

That should have been "...go and check your role PM

and compare it to the example on page 1

...".

I actually think the discrepancy between "Fresnino" and "Fresnoite" makes IH more likely to be telling the truth. If he was taking the structure of his claim from that example PM, then getting it wrong like that is very stupid. Also, the weirdness of the moniker "Fresnino" (and of "Fresnoite," for that matter) suggests to me that townies may have been given varying names as a play on the fact that "Fresno" doesn't lend itself easily to that sort of neologism.

[VitaminR]

The fact that no-one has been day-killed yet today points even more strongly at Lee being the culprit, IMO. If there were an anti-town day-killer who isn't Lee... surely he would've framed Lee. At the very least Lee would've worried about being framed (like Gaspar pointed out) unless he knew he

couldn't

be framed. His reactions are pretty much cementing my suspicions.

So on the condorcet he goes.

vote: IH

, Lee, Dani, MrBuddyL

Wow, that's bad reasoning. There's still a very strong possibility that the day-killer isn't anti-town or that the day-kill was one-shot, limited to a specific number, limited to a specific time frame, limited to specific circumstances, automated in some way, etc.

Frankly, I don't see the assumption of an anti-town day-killer totally free in executing someone every day as all that straightforward.

[VitaminR]

If either of you are really interested in ascertaining alignments, I think you'd be trying to find out whether I'm aligned with anyone. I don't get the least sense of that, not even an attempt to connect me with dead known scum.

This seems a very arbritary standard. I did look at the Thesp-Adele interaction, but it was limited and I didn't think much of it.

I still think the LML thing is nonsense. I don't see how Sarc can be convinced about it that easily.

The Mr. Grey vote also strikes me as a distraction.

[VitaminR]

Why would lynching the mod in this stage of the game be a good idea? Most likely we would just be wasting a lynch (effectively meaning a no-lynch vote). I see no clear case against Mr. Grey, whereas there are several scummy candidates for a rope.

This pretty much captures my opinion.

I agree with Pooky that Gaspar's focus on Mr. Grey isn't helping the town.

I do agree with Gaspar that we need more voting. The majority of the town putting off their vote until very late gives us little room to manoeuvre in later on.

[VitaminR]

VitR,

This "agreeability" strategy really works for you, huh?

I reviewed your posts and you've asked only one or two questions of people this game, and the answers to those questions would result in the same general feel I get from all of your comments in this game: nearly every remark is designed to attract the least amount of scrutiny and the maximum amount of agreement.

Heh.

I should try this strategy as scum a bit more consciously.

I would LOVE to see a complete top-to-bottom list of suspicions from you. You're the kind of player who, if scum, will coast to endgame uncontested. I'd like you fully on the record each step of the way if you would, please. Bonus points if you say something disagreeable

My Condorcet list has always been complete and I keep it up-to-date. I'll go through and clarify my reasons for the respective positions once I find the time.

[VitaminR]

I really wasn't at all bothered by the Pooky case against LML, but this stuck out for me:

Oh and just for kicks.

You can't use a google search for "LoudMouthLee and Lace" to get that result.

I'd very much like to see an explanation for this.

I also endorse this product:

And to Gaspar:

In light of the above WALL O TEXT, please revise and extend your remarks about my redundant, selectively-chosen(?!) questions and clarify your criticism of my play. I've created a relational web between me and most of the remaining players--which, if any of the connections look weak or phony to you? Why me when by all appearances my contribution dwarfs those of many players in this game?

I have to say, I do like most of MBL's posts so far.