California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Battle Mage]

hey guys, i'm here. Dont worry-tomorrow i will reread, solve this entire game, and we can all go to my brother's house for tea.

[Battle Mage]

ah sorry, Unvote
will reread and post later today.
BM

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[Battle Mage]

I didn’t like MgM’s opening vote of CES. It looked like an attempt to protect himself from an inevitable vote (no respectable player likes to resort to OMGUS).
Nor did I like Cubs post 60, which seemed panicky in defence of Skruffs.
Skruffs seems to be posting prolifically, and evidently seems keen to contribute. On the other hand, the speed of the BW on him, seems more like bussing than an attempted mislynch…
Also didn’t like the way DP deliberately put Skruffs at -4. Requires explanation imo.
PWS’s post 81 makes a good deal of sense.
Then Jeep joins in, as does Oman, who puts Skruffs at -2! I also disagreed with several aspects of DP’s analysis in post 115. Post 132 seems like a roundabout way of saying “Skruffs hasn’t done anything wrong, LEAVE HIM ALONE.” Lol
MgM joins DP bandwagonning Jeep.
Oh god. Post 148 is a corker. I’ve seen this stuff from Oman before. The only time you are likely to see Oman so cautious about joining a BW is when he is scum. CES meanwhile, gives me town vibes. VitR also seems to make a lot of sense at the top of page 7.
Interesting to see the numbers jumping to the aid of DP, despite the early stage of the game. Xyzzy is among these in post 156. I think Foolinc was helpful with his post early in the game, concerning potential characters. On the other hand, I felt his analysis of the players, later in the game, was less than brilliant. TSQ finally shows up, exhibiting a desire not to be replaced, yet also an inclination not to help the town.
Post 197 by Cubsfan feels WAY off to me. He reiterates that Skruffs is playing how he normally does, yet he then contrasts him with LML. Its hard to explain what I think he means, so you ought to read it for yourselves. Either way, its very scummy imo.
Skruffs ignores Cubs, which could be an attempt to distance himself from the clingy scumbuddy.
Pooky’s post 202 is very valid. I can see Cubsfan being scum, regardless of Skruffs’s role. Now the BW on Skruffs accumulates again. I think Zindaras is a bit harsh to Xyzzy on Page 11.
Jeep then BW’s Skruffs (what was he thinking?) while Skruffs makes a perfectly valid vote on DP.
Skruffs also makes a good point about not going with the flow, and standing up for what you think is right. That’s basically what won us Mafia 61, and its helped a lot in other games too. Xyzzy however, also makes some strong arguments about Skruffs’s apparent ‘sucking up’ to the more reputable players. Next page, CES goes OTT to attack Xyzzy for this, which looks a little opportunistic. 285 seems to be a totally unexplained BW vote by MgM. Hmm it seems that Jeep DIDN’T replace out for family reasons, which suggests that he just didn’t want to play anymore. I can see why that looks pretty scummy for the rest of you… :p
Post 326, Cubs claims that, whilst he isn’t sure whether LML is committing scummy behaviour, he still deserves a vote. Post 332 is very defensive, and doesn’t really offer any explanation for his play atall.
I don’t understand DP’s post 338. He attacks Skruffs for being suspicious of Jeep, and yet claims to have that same suspicion. I can understand what Skruffs is saying based on the info we have, but DP seems to be distancing.
Finally we have a wagon quickly accumulating on me. Lol

Anyone not on this list, i definitely do not want to lynch today, as so far, i cant really see any sort of case on them.

Unvote, Vote: Cubsfan

, DragonPhoenix, IH, MgM, CES, Tamuz

[Battle Mage]

MgM-Erm, unfortunately, no i can't, as the game is still in progress. Hence this can only serve as a validation for my vote, but it would be interesting to see whether others who have seen OMan play before as scum, can corroborate my suggestion.

[Battle Mage]

Thesp's play here reminds me of his play in Face to Face, in which he was town. (although during the game i wasnt too sure. lol)
LML's post 380 has the tone of someone who doesnt want to be too confrontational, and relishes the opportunity to discuss something that has very little impact on the game. Lurking in plain-sight? I'm not sure, but IGMEOY.

[Battle Mage]

Adele,

So you are voting for DP because he seems to have slipped up indicting that there are two families. So my question is, do you believe that DP has some sort of role that gives him information that there are 2 families?

Typically in a 2 family game, the families are ignorant of each other. Its not until they see a death of the other family that they realize they are not alone.

Surely it is usually obvious in a game where there are two mafia families, from the perspective of each family, because even the weakest mafia player has some concept of balance, and if their team alone does not equate to near enough the 1/4 ratio, they will have an inclination that another body of scum may exist.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Surely it is usually obvious in a game where there are two mafia families, from the perspective of each family, because even the weakest mafia player has some concept of balance, and if their team alone does not equate to near enough the 1/4 ratio, they will have an inclination that another body of scum may exist.

BM

Such things can (and I've already seen multiple occasions where this held true) be balanced out by simply adding a couple of traitors. Speculation based on the amount of scum in a group is a very risky business, especially in large games. You can usually make pretty good guesses in Minis, but big games have far more intricate design.

perhaps. still, i cant really see what i have done to accumulate such a large, and unco-ordinated BW...

[Battle Mage]

I think this whole logic of "if Skruffs turns out to be innocent than it means Cubs is scum" is a great big pile of crap logic. As town I think part of my duty is to not only ensure that scum is lynched but work towards that in part by ensuring people that I think are town are not lynched. I do not think it is scummy to defend somebody that you think is town. It's something that could be scummy but to use that alone was somehow evidence that I am ultra-scum does not work.

This is actually a good post. I believe i said the exact same thing in another game quite recently, and i can actually relate to what you are saying. Unfortunately, i dont think your behaviour can be completely forgiven, but i'm willing to give you a little respite.

Unvote

[Battle Mage]

@Talitha-what you say is true, but i dont want to intentionally mislynch here. Atm my vote is most likely to go to DP, though if necessary i will go back to Cubs in order to assure a lynch.
Dont worry-i'm as bloodthirsty as they come. I just try and employ a little logic first.

[Battle Mage]

If we aren't going to get 11 votes to lynch someone we need a Condorcet winner.
Someone pulled their vote off BM... Grrrrr

your case on me is non-existant. I've read up on the Condorcet system, and i actually dont see what the problem is. As long as we all post a ranked list before deadline, it is probably fairer for disputes to be solved that way. Obviously it is better if we can get an actual lynch, but, failing that, the alternative is nothing to be whinging about as far as i can see..

I will make my full list tomorrow, but in the meantime, Vote: DragonPhoenix

[Battle Mage]

damn, i clicked 'submit' instead of bold. lol

Unvote, Vote: DragonPhoenix

[Battle Mage]

^ouch^. Thats a hella scummy post right there...
Appeal to Emotion in bucketloads!

[Battle Mage]

Vitr-how do you suppose my comments are endorsing a wagon, when i have made it quite clear that LML is not the best lynch today. At this rate, you will accuse anyone who points out scumtells, but doesnt immediately hop on a BW, to be scummy, which is completely ridiculous.

Pooky's post 440 has a very good point actually-especially with deadline so close. interesting to note i think.

In response to IH's questions:

1. This is pretty obvious really. If you know someone is likely to cast a vote for you, and you are scum, it makes some sense to pre-empt this, meaning that should the inevitable vote come, you can disregard that players suspicion as OMGUS.

2. I would answer that question, but since my overall opinion of Skruffs now is that he is protown, my original comment is pretty obsolete. If it really matters to you i will go back and dig up what i originally saw, but if its not necessary, i cba...

3. In my opinion, putting someone at -4 is pretty dumb. I mean, its unlikely that a lynch will happen, but as you can see, 2 others quickly hopped on afterwards. I mainly got a bad vibe about the vote itself, but the positioning had a part to play.

4. I'm pretty sure Skruffs was at L-2 for a time. Again, if you know otherwise, please tell me. Being wrong isn't a scumtell. lol

5. DP had reasons for BWing Jeep, but from what i can gather from my own comments, those reasons were either copied, or very very 'suspect'.

6. Hey-didnt you just accuse me of trying to cast bogus suspicion onto people without committing to a vote? strange how comments like that come back and bite you in the butt, eh?
Metagame evidence is often only valid for the individual who has that experience. I cannot refer to ongoing games, as even if nobody here is playing in those games, information here will probably leak, and it will ruin those games for everyone. If you don't believe me, why dont you go and find some COMPLETED games of Oman's in order to refute my claims. I mean, you love metagaming proof right?

7. You think me naming post numbers in order to make it clearer for the rest of you, is a scumtell? ROFLMAO! I'm not quite sure how i have 'OMGUSed my way onto a vote list', as i've only voted for 2 people since joining, and as i'm pretty sure that 1 of them wasnt even voting for me. I might be wrong, but then, just because someone is voting for me, does that make them confirmed town?
Oh and me ignoring the case on Jeep is BS, as i have shown recognition of it multiple times. If i didnt KNOW he was protown, he would probably have been fairly high on my suspect list. As i do KNOW he was protown, i am naturally very wary of the arguments that are being manufactured against him.

8. Rofl. You've never used information from ongoing games before? I mean, what the hell would you do in my position? Quote from an ongoing game, thus ruining it for everyone, and probably getting myself banned?
Yeah, that would suit you just great wouldnt it.

9. Just a sec. You want to lynch me for unvoting? omfg dude, get a brain cell or 2....

i didnt realise i had reset my concordet list, but i will redo it again in a sec.

BM

^ouch^. Thats a hella scummy post right there...
Appeal to Emotion in bucketloads!

I actually found this quite scummy. Endorsing a wagon without voting, but using the "appeal to emotion"-justification to kick someone when they're down.

No. Not at all. It's not him being vocal and loud about it. It's what he's accusing people of. I don't like him saying that a question about a bah post is scummy. I don't like him saying that MoS went out of his way to look like dice tags, even though it has been stated MULTIPLE times that it would take all of three minutes to do so.

The latter part of your sentence isn't really true. LML is voting MoS because he said it looked contrived. That has little to do with how long it takes. It seems strange to vote someone purely for disagreeing with their argumentation, especially since he hasn't really pushed the Zindy thing all that much.

I'm going to throw out a complete Condorcet list according to my gut feelings.

Vote: Skruffs

, Battle Mage, IH, Adele, [xyzzy, Tamuz, foolinc] [Zindaras, LML, Gaspar, Talitha], Thesp, Dragon Phoenix, logicticus, Pooky, [PlaysWithSquirrels, Cubsfan4ever, MGM, CES]

[Battle Mage]

How do you guys feel about the potential predictive abilities of dream?
I dreamt about this game last night (you know you're playing too much mafia-thread material?) and in the dream LML was a scumbucket.

I'm considering switching to LML if keeping my vote on BM doesn't ensure a lynch just to see if my subconcious is any good at catching scum.

actually, i sometimes get visions like that. Sometimes they are right, but sometimes they arent. In my experience its probably better to use logic first, and perhaps use the dream to back up that logic. I do find it a little coincidental that you NOW want to switch to LML, just as IH has done the same thing.

[Battle Mage]

well i guess its time for our final lists. We best be on the safe-side, and try and get a good lynch here, so:

Unvote, Vote: LML

, DragonPhoenix, IH, Cubsfan, MgM, CES, Tamuz, Zindaras, VitaminR, Xyzzy, Adele, Pooky, DaniBanani, Logicticus, Gaspar, Foolinc, Talitha, No lynch, Skruffs, Thesp.

[Battle Mage]

It would be frankly, rude, not to respond to the questions posed by IH, so here goes:
1. I hate to keep going over this meta-issue, but if you will continue to misuse the term, i guess it is necessary. Meta-gaming is a practice which uses prior experience in other games, to make opinions on the consistency of players (or in some cases, setups). I have used this technique, in order to reinforce my belief that OMan is scum. Now, the weakness of meta-gaming is, you can meta-game using ongoing games, which ofc, you cannot quote to other players. Its unfortunate, but its a fact. Even so, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot use your own personal meta-game knowledge to finance your own votes, which is what i have strived to do. Of course, i dont expect you to take what i am saying, and validate your vote with it, because you may not think i am town. Fair enough-i'm not asking you to. But you seem to be getting VERY defensive about the whole thing, when there is little cause to be. You cant defend yourself against a case concerning your predecessor. Your best hope is that the other players havent had as much experience of Oman's play as i have, in which case, you might be able to fob me off. Unless i die of course, at which point the town will know i was not lying, and hopefully, they will lynch you.

2. I dont really understand the inherent significance of quoting the time difference between every post. Odd as it may sound, i've never seen anyone make such a fuss about it in any other games either.
this is what i mean by 'manufactured arguments'. What you are saying doesnt actually make any sense, but you are presenting it in such a way, that people consider it to be of relevance, which is obviously, very scummy.

Hmm, i was sure there was more than that, but i think most of the post was just fluff. Anyway, will get to responding to other comments now.

Hey-didnt you just accuse me of trying to cast bogus suspicion onto people without committing to a vote? strange how comments like that come back and bite you in the butt, eh?
Metagame evidence is often only valid for the individual who has that experience. I cannot refer to ongoing games, as even if nobody here is playing in those games, information here will probably leak, and it will ruin those games for everyone. If you don't believe me, why dont you go and find some COMPLETED games of Oman's in order to refute my claims. I mean, you love metagaming proof right?

Since you're the one who brought it up, you should already have a completed game where it is valid.

You think me naming post numbers in order to make it clearer for the rest of you, is a scumtell? ROFLMAO! I'm not quite sure how i have 'OMGUSed my way onto a vote list', as i've only voted for 2 people since joining, and as i'm pretty sure that 1 of them wasnt even voting for me. I might be wrong, but then, just because someone is voting for me, does that make them confirmed town?
Oh and me ignoring the case on Jeep is BS, as i have shown recognition of it multiple times. If i didnt KNOW he was protown, he would probably have been fairly high on my suspect list. As i do KNOW he was protown, i am naturally very wary of the arguments that are being manufactured against him.

No, you're looking at post numbers, but ignoring the amount of time in between posts.

Other than that, almost everyone who was on your condorcent list was on the jeep wagon or expressed suspicion against him.

"manufactured?"

8. Rofl. You've never used information from ongoing games before? I mean, what the hell would you do in my position? Quote from an ongoing game, thus ruining it for everyone, and probably getting myself banned?
Yeah, that would suit you just great wouldnt it.

No, I was pretty sure that you didn't have any proof of it.

actually, i sometimes get visions like that. Sometimes they are right, but sometimes they arent. In my experience its probably better to use logic first, and perhaps use the dream to back up that logic. I do find it a little coincidental that you NOW want to switch to LML, just as IH has done the same thing.

I was already on Lee.

But you are on the top of my condorcent list now, which should make you the condorcet leader.

I'd like to note that although IH says he wants BM to die in 438, he puts BM behind Lee on his Condorcet list, which actually means he's keeping BM alive that way.

Please correct me if the above is lwrong.

[Battle Mage]

ah the only other thing directed at me, was MgM's comment about my analysis, which is no longer my opinion anyway.

As we are drawing near deadline, and its looking like there is an increasing chance of us going to a concordet decision, i'd like to draw everyone's attention to the following comments:

IH(quoted by BM in above post): "I was already on Lee, but you are top of my concordet list now, which should make you the concordet leader."

MgM (post 478): "anyone who hasn't done so, should fix their lists"

DragonPhoenix (post 479): "I have seen nothing in the last few days that moves me away from my top scum candidates (primarily me). I will therefore no change my vote or concordet ranking."

Now, from where i'm sitting, this feels like a setup. The votes between me and MgM are tied, but i'm seeing spontaneous efforts to move me up the concordet ranking list. This alone is making me feel more confident of LML-scum. Dying like this Day 1, with so many experienced players would suck, so if nothing has changed by tonight, i will claim. Hopefully, the smarter among you won't make me do that if i dont have to.

If you are town, and you havent made a decision yet, please READ the recent posts objectively. I've yet to see any detailed case given against me since i joined the game, yet there must surely be a reason why i am accumulating votes right? The amount of people who are sliding me up the concordet rankings, with little/no reasoning, is ridiculous. If i die today, not only does the town make a stupid mislynch, but you will also learn absolutely jack-all from it, because you have been so tolerant of limpers. Who knows, some of them may be town! The problem is, because there has been no differentiation between people who honestly suspect me, and people who just want an easy mislynch, tomorrow could end up to be a real downer of a day for everyone...

Anyway, i'll be back later to claim.

BM

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[Battle Mage]

That's the first time I've been confused with LML.

I just noticed how my comment was ambiguous. I used the word "fix". I meant that people who changed their top vote without copying the entire list should do so before the deadline. I did not mean it to say fix as in "lock in". Everyone is free to change their votes until the final moment, assuming they're using solid reasoning.

actually, the meaning i had taken was 'fix' as in 'correct erroneous votes', which basically acts as a suggestion that you are telling your scumbuddies to change their votes. I do however agree that there is some ambiguity with the definition.

[Battle Mage]

right, time for a claim. I am Pierre Picaud. My role is basically that of a Cop, except that instead of a guilty/innocent investigation, i get a piece of information corresponding to the character of my target. As such, i become confirmable after night 1. My role itself doesnt actually catch scum, but it can be used to trap liars (assuming the scum characters of this theme are distinguishable from the town characters). But the fact that post-Night 1, i become a confirmed innocent, means its worth keeping me around. lol

@Talitha-i dont think a Cubs lynch is happening today. If you think LML is scummier than me, i think it is probably wise to vote for him. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

EBWOP: Okay, so BM is definitely not the play for today. I am naturally wary of his claim that he will be a "confirmed innocent" based on his ability to gather information. Scum Cops certainly exist (and I've even had an SK with an investigative ability in a game I modded). Still, I've liked Jeep/BM so far, and definitely do

NOT

think that he is the play.

Unvote
Vote: Mgm

, Adele, CES, LoudmouthLee, foolinc, Dragon Phoenix, [logicticus, Pooky, Talitha, Tamuz, Thesp, Xyzzy, Zindaras], [Cubsfan, Skruffs, IH, Dani Banani], Battle Mage, No Lynch, Gaspar

well, ok, maybe not confirmed innocent, but certainly i will be able to confirm my investigative ability.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, i'm becoming less sure about an LML lynch now. The votes on Skruffs by DP and VitR seem irrational at best-scummy at worst. Skruffs is bottom of my suspect list right now, and i'm intrigued to see that people are still pushing his lynch. Not only that, but VitR's concordet list is totally dumbfounding to me... lol
On the other hand, it's very hard to trust someone who is clinically lurking when his presence is perhaps most valuable. A claim from LML should be forthcoming.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Zindy, for someone who doesnt entirely believe my claim, i am surprised at my positioning on your concordet list...
I dont know what you mean by a 'Burglar' either. My flavour did however suggest that my presence in the game was due to me being dragged into fiction or something similar, so i guess that fits.
BM

[Battle Mage]

well i dont get items. just information. Ill paraphrase my role pm tomorrow hopefully.

BM

[Battle Mage]

hmm. I'd hate to lynch a power role day 1. As Cubsfan is current concordet leader, its probably better that we dont lynch atall, so

Unvote

.

[Battle Mage]

Madre de dios, that's a horrible post from BM.

I'll post a more expansive post regarding xyzzy later on (busy with something else right now, it'll be before deadline). Until then, I think I posted some things against xyzzy before.

i dont understand what you mean. Try posting in english.

[Battle Mage]

"Madre de dios" means "Mother of God".

Why the

hell

would you want to No Lynch?

I'd have thought it was obvious. If we dont get a majority, the lynch victim is the concordet leader. Currently this is Cubsfan, so even if we dont lynch, we still dont lose a claimed power role. The opposite of course would be with LML as Concordet leader, in which case we would need to pile votes onto Cubs, in order to protect LML.
Its alot easier than the explanation i've tried to make. Its in the rules, so you could read it more concisely there.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And why, exactly, is No Lynch better than Cubs? Or, well, pretty much anything else? Your explanation of the mechanics behind a No Lynch is all fun and games, but I want to know what motive I could possibly have for a no lynch.

The best way of making sure that LML is not lynched is to make an actual list and simply put him way down. Unvoting and doing nothing is not the way to do it. If anything, it is only scummy, since you are now indifferent between lynches.

lol calm down Zindy. I didnt say that No-Lynch is the ideal option. I'm merely trying to point out that there is no especial reason TO lynch now, assuming Cubs is who we want to die either way. I realise you may have a phobia of the words 'No-Lynch', but in this case, i really cant see what the issue is. If i come on tonight and i see that me changing my list around will make a positive difference, i will do so. Otherwise, i'm content enough to leave it how it is, assuming it is inconsequential for today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm merely trying to point out that there is no especial reason TO lynch now

I know a rather large handful of players who would say "Information," and I don't disagree with that opinion. And I myself would say that No-Lynching D1 is at least on the Top 5 of the

Worst Things a Town Could Possibly Do

.

Please explain. I dont want you to reel off a whole list of generalisations, because they are of no relevance to this game. I want solid reasoning why lynching in this precise game, is preferable to not-lynching, but still ending up with the same victim. You claimed information was a reason, but i beg to differ. In some ways, i think more information can be gleaned from a lynch based on everyones list, than merely their 1 vote alone.
So, please tell me where i am going wrong.

Also, is this Primate or Glork i am talking to?

BM

[Battle Mage]

What you say is true, but i think you have missed the point. I am not suggesting that we don't lynch anyone today. I'm saying that it doesnt matter if we reach a vote majority or not, because the concordet vote, as it stands, will result in a Cubs lynch anyway. I'm not sure whether you understood this. If you did, i still don't understand why that is an issue.

BM

(All posts since Glork stepped in to respond to LmL have been made by Glork, including this one. Primate is, as far as I can tell, not around.)


Okay, BM.

Presumably, day play favors the town. It is the town's best (and oftentimes, only, in the case of mountainous games) method of eliminating scum. As a balancing factor, night play should favor the scum slightly. Between that and the "informed minority" aspect, a game should be properly balanced.

Assuming this is true, if we are inactive during the day portion of the game, we are handing a clear advantage to the scums.

As I stated, information is important. We've seen a wagon on you which led to claim, a wagon on LmL which led to claim, and two wagons which have not (yet) produced claims: The earlier one on Skruffs and the currentone on Cubsfan. The problem is, none of these give us any solid information. You are not confirmed town. LmL isn't confirmed town. We don't know anything definitive about Skruffs' or Cubs' role or alignment. As bodies hit the ground, we will eventually learn this information, but in the meantime, we will be making less informed decisions with our night actions.

Furthermore, the idea of waiting around to see what night actions occur is preposterous because the scums will take their action(s) based on what will suit

them

the most and/or what will help the town the

least

. It's for this kind of reason that, even though I don't like a Cubslynch, I would rather see him lynched over no-lynching. At least it's something that is supposedly supported (to an extent) by protown players.

[Battle Mage]

(Glork.)

Oh, okay. Yeah, I just misunderstood the point you were trying to make. I'm still curious/confused as to why you unvoted and advocated a No Lynch to begin with.

I wasnt advocating a No-Lynch. I was merely advocating 'intentionally not getting a majority'. Its pretty hard for me to explain what i mean on this, so i can well understand why you got confused.
BM

[Battle Mage]

thats all well and good LML, but why the hell would we want to lynch Xyzzy over Cubs? rofl.

[Battle Mage]

thats all well and good LML, but why the hell would we want to lynch Xyzzy over Cubs? rofl.

God, you're awful.

Is there anyone you WANT to lynch?

lol had you been reading the game, you wouldnt have asked such a silly question.

@Logicticus, Zindy-I'll tell you what. Lets discuss this tomorrow. Ya know, so i can prove my innocence and make you both eat your words.

[Battle Mage]

thats completely ridiculous Zindy. Its obvious who is going to get lynched. My vote wont change that either way. You can try your hardest to construe my actions as bad in any way you want-the fact is, my opinions have been made perfectly clear, and your incessant ravings about this are nonsensical.

I'd say that me proving my role would go some way to proving my innocence. I've never seen scum with this role before at least.
And yes, whilst proving my innocence does not prove me right as such, it does categorically prove you WRONG in your suspicions of me.

BM

thats all well and good LML, but why the hell would we want to lynch Xyzzy over Cubs? rofl.

God, you're awful.

Is there anyone you WANT to lynch?

lol had you been reading the game, you wouldnt have asked such a silly question.

Your Condorcet list has no preference between 19 of the 20 players.

This expresses an

indifference

between those 19 players. Which means, essentially, that you

don't care who gets lynched, as long as it's not you

.

@Logicticus, Zindy-I'll tell you what. Lets discuss this tomorrow. Ya know, so i can prove my innocence and make you both eat your words.

For one, proving your ability will

not

prove your alignment. It won't.


No, really, it won't.

For two, even

if

you are proven innocent, that does not necessarily mean you are right.

[Battle Mage]

shouldnt the day be over now?

[Battle Mage]

OMFG. I AM NOT A BURGLAR. I dont know how many times i'm going to have to repeat myself over this. Suffice to say Zindaras, i've made my comments for today. I will know more tomorrow, and you will once again here my opinions then, should i survive the night.
If i do die tonight, perhaps then you will go back and read my comments, in order to SEE who i was suspicious of.

I dont understand Cubs claim, but as the duel hasnt happened, i think we can be pretty sure he is scum.

BM

thats completely ridiculous Zindy. Its obvious who is going to get lynched. My vote wont change that either way. You can try your hardest to construe my actions as bad in any way you want-the fact is, my opinions have been made perfectly clear, and your incessant ravings about this are nonsensical.

"It won't change anything, so I'm better off just laying back and doing nothing."

It is

every townie's job

to voice his suspicions, to clarify his thoughts. By unvoting, you express nothing. You express indifference, and indifference is a scumtell. It is every townie's job to hunt scum. By expressing complete indifference, you simply state "I'm not hunting scum".

It doesn't matter when. Page 3 or Page 30, one hour before deadline or one week before deadline. It doesn't matter if the lynch is decided.

I'd say that me proving my role would go some way to proving my innocence. I've never seen scum with this role before at least.
And yes, whilst proving my innocence does not prove me right as such, it does categorically prove you WRONG in your suspicions of me.

If there is a role, it has had a scum version. Roles like Burglars are equally viable/useful for scum as for town.

Confirming your role does not confirm your alignment, period. You can argue all you want about it being a pro-town role, and to a certain extent that is the case, but

it doesn't confirm you

.

[Battle Mage]

BM, the dual did happen look above.

ah ok. does that mean that LML is neutral, seeing as the supposed scum result, and the town result didnt happen?

@Zindy-seeing as the majority of your list seems to be based on 'gut' which is barely explained atall, you can see why i'm not taking your criticisms too seriously. lol

[Battle Mage]

err no. I think if anyone has lost it, it is you. You can find out more about my role tomorrow. Suffice to say, it is NOT A BURGLAR/THIEF/WHATEVER.
So please stop trying to put BS into my mouth.

OMFG. I AM NOT A BURGLAR. I dont know how many times i'm going to have to repeat myself over this. Suffice to say Zindaras, i've made my comments for today. I will know more tomorrow, and you will once again here my opinions then, should i survive the night.
If i do die tonight, perhaps then you will go back and read my comments, in order to SEE who i was suspicious of.

Mike's Flash Introduction to Roles. How is your role different from the Thief (I call it a Burglar)? You get information regarding his role. That's a Burglar.

I seriously doubt that, if I go back through your posts, I'll be able to see exactly what you thought about each and every player in this game.

@Zindy-seeing as the majority of your list seems to be based on 'gut' which is barely explained atall, you can see why i'm not taking your criticisms too seriously. lol

My opinions are clear. If people have questions regarding them, I can answer them. I'm trying to get the best lynch for the town.

You are lacking in all these things. You can go "NO U" all you want, but you're flat-out wrong.

[Battle Mage]

i think its the right result that the merger between Glork and Primate was victorious in this epic clash.


BM