California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[jeep]

confirming in thread as requested.

[jeep]

So we need to figure out how to spark discussion that will require at least 25 word responses on day 1... Normally, I'd just throw around votes until someone got into a heated debate, but I don't know how to make those posts long enough. Maybe I'm just too old school. Eh, I'll just vote randomly... random.org says:

vote: Skruffs

-JEEP

[jeep]

Skruffs, according to the rules, your vote list needs to be at the bottom of your post...

/me wonders if I invalidated my list by signing my post.

-JEEP

[jeep]

Um... votes don't count towards the 25, right?

-JEEP

[jeep]

Why wouldn't we use it? It's a lot like a vote with a handful of FOS... I think it should be employed as soon as you want to start ranking people you think might be acting scummy...

So having said that:

vote: Skruff

, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee

Tags corrected. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[jeep]

I think it should be employed

as soon as you want

to start ranking people you think

might

be acting scummy...

Bolded because you're contributing to my point rather than detracting from it. Who's gonna have a list of multiple scummy people on page 1?

I'll see your bolding and raise you an underline, or two.

-JEEP

Tags removed in quoted material. - Mod

[jeep]

The only reason I can see for NOT using a list in your vote is if you are scum and haven't yet figured out how you plan to make your list so that it reduces your risk while not tipping your hand.

vote: MGM

, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, Skruff

[jeep]

Throws up some suspicion on non-Concordet voters, which I don't agree with.

Why don't you agree? I don't understand why any pro-town role would not use a list. The only reason for not using a list is because you are scum and haven't had time to work out with your scum buddies what is the right way to use it to your advantage.

Even if you don't provide a list, you're just saying: I'd be equally happy to lynch anyone.

vote: MGM

, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, Dragon Phoenix, Skruffs

-JEEP

[jeep]

Okay, I've been asked why pro-town folks would want to use lists instead of a single vote. Well, because there is no reason not to, if you are pro-town. It's not that there is a compelling reason TO use the list. There is just no reason not to unless you are scum.

DP, you are correct that using a list before the deadline has no purpose. It didn't sink in that the lists would ONLY be used at the deadline. For some reason I thought that lists would be used more often. It's still not good policy to discourage people from using lists.

-JEEP

[jeep]

Post 116? I don't understand.

As for listing a reason for every person on it, I don't do that when I vote a single person, why would I do it for a list?

And DP, you mis-represent my stance. I don't think it's scummy to not use the method. I think it's scummy to discourage using the method.

-JEEP

[jeep]

I'm guilty of hyperbole. There is no reason to not use a list if you are pro-town. I stand by that.

DP, you take my quote out of context... it was responding to :

I don't particularly like using Concordet voting this early in the game when everything is still too hazy

My response was that there is no reason not to. I may have stated it a little more strongly than needed. If you notice, I only had a list of one in my first vote.

I don't feel it's back peddling. I stand by my statement, but after your comment, I looked at the rules more closely. It hadn't sunk in that the list would only be used at the deadline. So yes, I understand that there is no compelling reason to put out your list yet. But anyone discouraging the use of a list is scummy, IMO.

-JEEP

[jeep]

Apart from arbitrary votes, I believe every vote should be justified with a reason.

I think they only need to be justified if you want people to follow you. Even then, you don't always need to justify them. So yes, I believe we disagree on that.

-JEEP

[jeep]

vote: MGM

, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, Dragon Phoenix, Skruffs, [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, Cubsfan4ever, foolinc, logicticus, Mastermind of Sin, Oman, PookyTheMagicalBear,Talitha,Thesp,Thestatusquo,VitaminR,xyzzy,Zindaras], No Lynch, jeep

[jeep]

But anyone discouraging the use of a list is scummy, IMO.

I think you're contradicting yourself. Early on, you voted Mgm, PWS for not agreeing with you on the list issue. And now you're saying that they weren't scummy. So what is it?

Huh? How am I saying they weren't scummy and how am I contradicting myself?

Anyone who DISCOURAGES the use of a list is scummy. That is clear from my post that you quoted, right? People NOT using a list, doesn't make them scummy. It's only if they discourage the use of a list.

I still need to catch up, but this caught my eye, so I'm responding now. I'll catch up on my reading tonight and post again if game night doesn't go too long.

-JEEP

[jeep]

To make it clear: I don't particularly like using Concordet voting this early in the game

That is discouraging the use of a list...

-JEEP

[jeep]

It's still discouraging the use of lists. I don't think that the rest of the sentence changes that (which is why I left it off, I fogot to add the elipses.)

-JEEP

[jeep]

Okay, and that changes things how? It still discourages the use of lists.

-JEEP

[jeep]

Okay, so let's try this one more time. Where does Mgm actively discourage other players from using Condorcet lists in that post?

*sigh* I pointed out where MGM discourages the use of lists. I never said MGM was as blunt as I am. It's still discouraging the use of lists. It's like advertising. It rarely says: "Go buy this product now." (Don't start pointing out the few that do... I know there are exceptions.) Often you'll see people that you might recognize saying "I use this" or whatever. It's still (at least trying to) encouraging you to buy the product.

-JEEP

[jeep]

To make it clear: I don't particularly like using Concordet voting this early in the game when everything is still too hazy, so I'll do things the old fashioned way.

Has no significantly different meaning than

I don't particularly like using Concordet voting this early in the game

It simply expands on what you are saying by adding WHY you state that. It doesn't matter WHY you think that. It's the fact that you state that you don't like it that is important and was the point being discussed. Had I cut it like this:

I don't particularly like using Concordet voting

THEN it would have been significantly different. But I didn't cut it like that.

So we can decide to not use lists, but we can't say we're not going to use the lists?

Close enough for government work. That isn't quite exactly right, but it is probably as close as you're likely to get, given you've already made up your mind.

-JEEP

[jeep]

Scum never intend to tip their hand. So, I don't know if MGM agrees that discouraging Condocet is pro-scum or not. If he does, then he's stupid, I guess... so I'll go with: no, I don't think that MGM thinks that discouraging it is pro-scum.

Discouraging Condorcet does hurt the town. It's by analyzing the patterns that we'll get information. Scum are the ones who will need to be extra careful with their lists... anything that complicates the scums web of lies is a good thing for the town.

-JEEP

[jeep]

See V/LA. My sister is in the hospital, I may not be posting for a little while. In 2-3 hours I'll either be on my way to CO or back here to post more.

[jeep]

Anyone who DISCOURAGES the use of a list is scummy.

Can a person express that they themselves don't want to use a list without discouraging the use of a list?

I'm certain that it's possible. Something like:
"Only XYZ seems to stand out, so I don't want to make a list beyond that yet. It's certainly a good idea to take advantage of the list and before the deadline, I'll have my list ready.

Vote: XYZ"

I'm still not certain if I'll be around much in the near future. I'll know more tomorrow.

-JEEP

[jeep]

EBWOP:

vote: MGM

, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, Skruffs, xyzzy, [All players not on this list elsewhere], Dragon Phoenix, No Lynch, jeep

[jeep]

Okay, I'm here and not planning on leaving.

vote: Skruffs

, MGM, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, xyzzy, [All players not on this list elsewhere], Dragon Phoenix, No Lynch, jeep

[jeep]

no, I don't think that MGM thinks that discouraging it is pro-scum.

Jeep is basically admitting here that the mgm quote isn't scummy. After all, it's the intent that makes the scum, not the action. You can't argue that Mgm is scummy for doing something pro-scum if you don't really believe Mgm thinks it's pro-scum.

What?!?!? Scum will only do pro-scum stuff that they don't realize is pro-scum. If they do stuff that they think is pro-scum, they are stupid. This has got to be the most backwards thing I've read in a LONG time.

-JEEP