BM's Mystery Mafia!! GAME OVER???

[Skruffs]

I am pleased to see Albert R. Rampage in this game.
Thank god for Post 60.

Vote : XDaamno

[Skruffs]

Fishing would be saying "Who's the double voter". Oman was theorizing (falsely) that the number of votes to lynch was affected by an outside force, in this case, a double voter.
The whole premise is wrong, though - a double voter in a game rarely changes the number of votes to lynch, it just drops the number of people who have to be on a wagon for someone to be lynched (usually by one).

Fishing would be "So, does anyone have the ability to double vote?" - which Oman didn't say.
And if there WAS reason to think someone could double vote, what would be the harm in asking about that now, anyways? This is day, the time where votes are cast, and it would become quite apparent as soon as they voted regardless.

[Skruffs]

I'm confused - why wouldn't it help the town to be aware of a double voter, if such a player existed?

[Skruffs]

The alternative is not voting at all though.
Anyways, there is no voting, and if there was, what Oman was doing wasn't fishing anyways.

[Skruffs]

No, I don't think everyone is Town, that's just stupid. I think that everyone is Town

ie

. Well, actually, I don't anymore...

You don't anymore ? ...?

now THAT, my friends, is fishing.

[Skruffs]

*ahem*

[Skruffs]

Poor, poor fishy flea.

[Skruffs]

Well, let's look at the options as to why NV9 may consider JDodge indisputably town:
A) He's a cop with an innocent. FALSE! There hasn't been a night phase yet.
A.2 - He could be a DAY COP. Possible.

B) He and JDodge are Masons together. NV9 would thus know JDodge's innocence based on pre-game information.

C) NV9 and JDodge are mafia. NV9 unintentionally formed a link by protecting JDodge and fossing everyone else.

D) NV9 is mafia buddying up to JDodge and JDodge is town along for the ride.

E) NV9 is a townie who thinks he's found another townie in JDodge and is stepping up to protect him, perhaps without quite realizing how much of his opinions he is basing on the assumption of JDodge's innocence.

F) SSF is mafia fishing for power roles and Nelly created a powerful point to draw attention away from that. >.>

There are other options but that's what I see, right now.

[Skruffs]

That puts him at -4.
NV9, looks like you are in trouble. How do you plead?
If it matters, I was scum with him in a newbie game, and he did not defend townies.

[Skruffs]

But, the one thing that can hold off my death, is, well...I killed bobby.

So.. you did *mean* to kill bobby, right?

[Skruffs]

Well, looking at Bobby's posts in isolation, I am not seeing any reason to think that he was a cop. I don't think ABR intentionally meant to kill a cop, but he did intentionally kill someone, day one, with no warning. THAT is the big problem. So, I guess, we should look to find what the purpose of the vig was for.
He was threatening Jordan to either claim or die (with a side note that his buddy bobby was also in danger). He make a very grandiose claim to force Jordan to claim and then - when jordan refuses to claim, he kills Bobby instead. Bobby, who he didn't ask to claim.

What was the result of this? Huge distancing between jordan and ABR, maybe. Killing someone not in your scum team makes the person you are accusing of being scum look more town. It's hard to say, for sure, but that is what I see it as. ABR made no overt plays to hide he was the vig, so I doubt that he needed it to be a secret. So why do it A) without asking anyone or B) without asking Bobby to claim or C) the huge turn around from one to the other? The apologetic attitude "Sorry if you are town, Jordan", right as eh sends in the vote to kill a townie, just makes it more likely that this is a big gambit, to me.

[Skruffs]

Also, I'd like to take a look at the fact that ABR claimed Hydrogen and Bobby was Michael Jordan, I don't think we're in for normal rolenames here.

This reminds me of Post Restriction Mafia, where the mafia don't have post restrictions like townies do. Are you suggesting that your rolename IS normal? (I'm saying flavor, not role).

[Skruffs]

I wonder how Erg0 can say that we will get no information from an Albert lynch, when apparently, at least three people (on this page anyways) have decided that Albert is a bad lynch, for NO apparent reason.

I guess I'm back.

I still don't like the Albert lynch. If that was a scum gambit then he just gave up a free daykill (which he could have used later in the game to kill, say, a

claimed

cop) to kill some random townie and distance himself from a player that nobody was linking him with?

Next theory, please.

Revenge is good and all, but there are one hundred drawbacks to this lynch:

1. He's probably town.
2 through 100.

We get no information from the wagon.

Seriously, Albert is the easiest lynch in the world right now, and the scum can just run him up without fear of reprisal. I don't like that idea.

I also find it really weird that nobody even noted my unreasoned vote on MoS. Monomaniacal much?

I am disagreeing with the Albert lynch because he vigged Bobby as far as I can tell (he might have just said he did to draw out a claim, but its unlikely he fake-killed Jordan and Bobby died at the approx time). I don't see a day scumkill, and if they did have it I doubt they'd waste it just yet.

Ergo is also right, even if he's scum, we get no info from the wagon except maybe Xdaamno as town, but then he could be bussing I guess we don't get any.

Also, Ergo mentions the bit I mentioned above: " If that was a scum gambit then he just gave up a free daykill" which I see as wrong move also.

Albert may be wrong, but I doubt he's scum. Xdaamno, I guess your answer is yes.

Ok, seeing as we're still pretty much where we were when I last posted, I'll just give a run down.

I still don't agree with an Albert lynch. His play was foolish, but I really don't see how it could be some mastermind scum plan(it seemed rushed and randomly decided). As Erg0 has said, the wagon isn't going to be very informative, and at this point, it really looks like people are being stupid and simply trying to get revenge for a dumb move. Not good for the town.

I eagerly await content from N9V's replacement.

Considering he daykilled a cop with no warning, I see no reason for him to be town, and I see no reason for scum, if he is town, to want to go after him. Like Erg0 said - he's an easy lynch. 'Why lynch someone scummy right now', I can picture scum thinking, 'if he's going to be an easy lynch later on, when one of us are in trouble'.

Anyways the point of this post is to discredit Ergo's 1/100 chance he's town vs 99/100 he's scum but it would be an infoless lynch. There's three people right there who think that what he did was townish, which I don't really see a town having any reason to do. It was NOT town to do what he did in the fashion he did it. People are saying it's too scummy to be scum, that's ridiculous.

Now, mind you, me and Albert are BOTH voting xdaamno, so...

[Skruffs]

I said Albert was a bad lynch

before

the other two spoke up, so I could hardly take that into account when stating that we got no information. To be clear, I absolutely think Albert is town, anything else I say on the subject is merely an attempt to persuade others who think he's scum not to vote for him.

As for having no apparent reason to think that Albert's a townie - my reason is in the post you quoted. I don't see what he did as a good scum gambit. It's not good play for a townie either, but it's a worse play for scum.

So, too scummy to be scum. Okay. Very wifom, okay. On the other hand, saying that you said your post before the others sounds like you are ceding that information could NOW be had from his lynch.

The reason I think he's town atm is that it would be rediculous for him to be scum.

Also, if he is scum (which I'll grant is a possibility) he's failing badly, so I see no harm is keeping him around.

Skruffs: example 1) Albert comes up scum: who are his scumbuddys?

Again, too scummy to be scum, which almost makes it a perfect scum gambit, apparently, because if you are town, and he's not, you'd be falling for it.
I think we'd be much more likely to see who is scum by if he turns up town than if he turns up scum.

Skruffs, its very simple. I could have simply told the mod who I wanted dead without revealing my hand. That's what I would do if I were scum. The fact I made myself so wrong discredits a scum Rampage.

FoS Skruffs

Whoa. No way. You do NOT get to fos me for questioning your motives. You just daykilled a cop without giving him ANY chance to claim, defend, etc, for the sole reason that the other person you were so suspicious of, bobby, refusing to claim for you. Why did he refuse to claim? PRobably because he had no real idea that you were dayvig, or, because you are his buddy and knew you wouldn't actually kill him. It could so easily have been staged, and you can not deny that, unless you are still as blind as you were before you killed the cop.
So, uh, sorry, no.

erg0, if he's scum, then he is definitely succeeding at the moment. He just killed our cop. We don't know how much more damage he's capable of inflicting on the town.

Which reminds me : Albert - one shot or not?

Regardless of who said it, its right. He killed our cop, yes, but he didn't KNOW bobby was cop (unless mafia have a rolecop?). Also I can think of a few reasons he shouldn't have killed bobby:

He would have known if he had waited for half a minute, and asked him like he had asked hiw original 'target'. HE didn't. Your excuse is saying "Well he can't be held ACCOUNTABLE because he didn't KNOW who he was killing"... when a day vig has the option of being more successful than a night vig because he can use that ability WITH town's help/guidance or to solve options like solving counter claims, etc. Using it for personal pleasure is a gross neglect of responsibilities, at best.
Secondly - role cop? WHen would the role cop have been able to use their ability? Or do you mean day-role-cop with a the ability to day-talk? No. Albert would have Known if he had given bobby a chance to claim, which he didn't.

Bobby looked scummy at that point (IIRC) scum like to keep suspicious townies alive.

What made Bobby look suspicious to you?

It drew waaay to much heat to Albert. In fact, he's the top vote atm

By your very previous statement, killing the most suspicious player was okay for the vig to do - but it's not okay for the town to do? You seem to be sayign that Albert should NOT be responsible for his actions, and that's just wrong.

More damage? ATM no-one beleives anything he says, so directing lynches is out. Also, I doubt there is a multiple mafia assasin in this game. One shot is about the limit.

You haven't seen any defense of albert?

AGain, I am not necessarily saying that ALbert is scum, but his actions are a heck of a lot more useful to scum if he is going to continue playing this way than they are for town, and I wouldn't be surprised if scum was defending him regardless of his role.

Oman thats just stupid. Hes the best lynch, you know it and you're just struggling to keep the mentally insane member (ABR) of your evil mafia trio alive. (you and erg0 are the others, naturally) you manipulative little hound.

we must lynch ABR because I said so, and I am King.

Trio? Do you know something about the size of hte mafia(s) that we don't, GodofWine? I had used the 25% rule with the 18 player roster to determine there is likely a 4 player scum group with maybe an SK, lyncher, or survivor in the group.

[Skruffs]

Give me a good case on Albert and I'll vote him. I've already rebutted the existing argument, and nobody seems interested in debating it.

The arugment on ABR as stated so far is nonexistant

I believe ABR has provided his own case against himself.
You have taken it on yourself to assume he is town and defend him from the evil persecuters who wish to stop him from recklessly randomly dayvigging in the future.
The main defense that I have seen for ABR being town is that what he did was too scummy to be scum, which is a pointless, useless case, because it effectively means as long as ABR stays acting as scummy as possible he'll be above suspicion. I'll call this "The Battle Mage" defense.

Lastly - you wonder why GodofWine has tried to piece the three of you together. Parroters.

[Skruffs]

Albert, what drives you to suggest ignoring concepts slightly more advanced in nature?

[Skruffs]

This is getting frustrating.
For some reason, threads are being 'unwatched', and I do not realize it until I get a prod.
My apologies, I will catch up.

I'm going to start off with a very long, opinionated attack against Albert. Since I missed the tail end of it, I want to refresh everyone's memory on what happened and how I feel things 'went down'.

In my defense,

"Politics is the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen." -Winston Churchill

And, uh, at least we know he was going to waste an investigation on me. Right guys ?

I doubt Albert is scum, I mean, it's not like he knew Bobby was a cop, and as Erg0 said, why would he kill a random town player rather than save it for later (presuming it's 1-shot if he's scum).

Unvote Vote: GOW

, for pushing an easy scumwagon, using stupid reasoning.

The thing is, Albert gave bobby no chance to TELL him he was a cop. Considering it was (supposedly) a one-shot, (and by the way, a recent scumchat game I was in had scum as a one-shot day vig followed by normal nightkills), he was completely reckless with it, choosing to just outright kill bobby - who actually made some good points about Albert's game-playing - rather than defending them as most other people would. Instead of recognizing Bobby's interactions as scum hunting, he saw bobby as a threat, and killed him for it. The whole thing directed towarsd jordan before hand made no sense then and makes NO SENSE now:

Jordan, jordan, jordan. What will I ever do without you, my friend ? All that killing you stuff, it was bullshit. It was a test, Jordan. A test that you passed.

What, you really think that if I were a day-vig I would kill you like that, without evidence ? Just because that you accused me ? Come on, I am not that OMGUSsy. I can take a hit, even from you. I wouldn't kill you in plain day like that just for one little case that you deposed against me.

Remember back in Hacker Mafia, when we had just met ? I left you alive the whole game, remember ? Didn't even shoot you at the end, although we both lost. C'mon man, I thought you knew me better than that. Unless you knew this was just a joke, and played along perfectly. Hey, maybe your a smart scum than feigned being pissed. I'd be so impressed with you, you know ?

Dude, Jordan, I didn't kill you. I wouldn't dream of killing you, you got nothing to fear. I was just fooling around with you.

Yeah, this makes me look terribly scummy. I know that. I know that I may be lynched today, but there is one thing that might save me; its my trump card, you see ? No, I'm not going to claim, because nobody would believe me. But, the one thing that can hold off my death, is, well...I killed bobby.

Why is Albert being left off the hook?
And killing bobby allowed albert to escape the (more) valid points bobby raised, now that we know he was town - why was albert defending people (Jdodge and others) for them? Why was Albert so afraid of those accusations that he outright killed bobby for stating them, rather than talking about them? Right after bobby started stating them, albert accused bobyd of being scum - then, when jordan defended him, he turnedh is attention to jordan with a very well staged series of 'pressure posts', and then switched back to bobby with the actual kill. I can honestly believe that bobby did things the way he did to get rid of an enemy, distance from jordan, and wind up looking like a careless one-shot vig rather than scum, because it's just

too outrageous

to think that scum would do what he did.

Second to Lastly: After that incredibly scummy move, Albert got (from what I can see by vote counts) five votes on him, and about as many people declaring that he was probably not scum. For using a one-shot vig. Without warning. On someone that was posting good analysis against him.
Now look at GOW, who, saying with certainty that Albert was definitely scum for his action, received SEVEN VOTES, at least three of them were in consecutive posts. A good bunch of people had no problem defending Albert's scummy play - how many of these people were easily jumping onto GOW, some times for the very reasons that GOW was using in his attack on Albert.


Here's the vote count at the time Bobby was killed:
N9V 6 (Erg0, GodofWine, Nelly632, Jdodge, Quinnster, BobbyPlump)
Bobby 5 (Xdaamno, Albert B. Rampage, Somestrangeflea, Pulsewidth, oman)
Somestrangeflea 1 (N9V)
Xdaamno 2 (Skruffs, Oman)
Albert B. Rampage 1 (SirWario)
AlSleet 1 (Kison)

N9V, who more people was on (6 vs 5) was ignored.
Look at the players who haev defended albert since he killed bobby. How many of them were voting bobby at that time? So their opinions are biased because to go otherwise would be to say that they themselves were mistaken, which they for some reason, do not want to do.

And lastly: No there is no theme to the flavor as of yet but I would like Albert to do a full flavor claim as to why hydrogen is a one-shot vig.

Anyways, mooooving on...

I was already voting XDaamno for earlier plays, but I love this post:

In reponse to a question that somehow appeared out of the totally unrelated 503, I feel the God of Wine wagon does have some strength. Looking back, there isn't much concrete evidence but there are some of the gut tells I look out for (And apparently missed beforehand). I'm just not jumping onto it at the moment, and I'm not commenting because anything I'd say would be repeating what everyone else has said.

Plus I'm not entirely up-to-date with what's happening -_-'

Continuing to read, Oman made a slip-up I think disbelieving GOW's claim. Flavor slip ups are the hardest to recover from, please keep an eye on Oman later. Later on (I've read on) he claims a power role.
That was dumb, Oman, I don't know how many power roles there are but I doubt there's more than one cop or vig (if albert is a vig, something I am *not* willing to accept at face blank)that doesn't leave many options for you. That may have been a spectacularly stupid move if you are the doctor. I hope you aren't.

I have finished reading, and again, I apologize for not beign around, but for some reason the thread was 'unwatched'. This is the third or so game this has happened to me on, and that's aggravating.

My vote on XDaamno stays, for now, for the small, scummyish things he's been doing all game.

[Skruffs]

Xdaamno - you are far less likely to be lynched if you put yourself at risk by actually scum hunting. The reason I am suspicious of you (Well, one of them) is the rather... sneaky way you are playing this game.

Why are you accusing me of backseat driving? What's your point of reference to make that assertion?

[Skruffs]

Heather, welcome to the game! Make yourself comfy, pull up a chair, stay a while. I like your intro post.
Flea said earlier that he thought everyone was a townie. I don't get scum vibes from NV9, he is not playing like he did in the other two games we played where he was scum. He could be, but i believe he is being voted for doing jdodge's'defending for him. The basis for my vote much earlier in the game on xdaamno was for, if i recall correctly, his actions regarding the early wagons. That is not the official statement, but it is the reasoning for it. I find it a hard pill to swallow that people have cleared albert for no apparent reason. With deadline so close and NV9 not here, it looks like he'll be lynched, though.could someone, preferrably someone not voting NV9, re-explain the case against it?

[Skruffs]

Hmm.

Unvote Xdaamno

Vote : SirWario

[Skruffs]

Well that's odd. Sir Wario was acting scummy, but you are not. Now I am confused.
Details soon.

[Skruffs]

I can only assume that the SK killde hte broccolli and thus the mafia (or another SK) killed the first SK. Hmm.
why would Jordan be killed? The obvious connection is ABR, I suppose.
Heather - usually when I vote someone based on suspicions it is because they are coming accross as oppurtunistic or under the radar. Your posts seem like neither, but SirWario's does. The deadline happened before I really thought about unvoting you.

I'm really curious why people are 'blaming' other people for a mislynch? Is there a reason behind that?

[Skruffs]

The connection being maybe killing Jordan would make you look bad? Of course I doubt the mafia *knew* that Jordan was also scum...

[Skruffs]

Mr flays cool. The mod did not say that anyone else got new role pms, so if any of them are mafia, i am guessing the other mafiates will find out tonight. I would have no problem lynching TCS, though, to check and see if the three of them make up a second mafia.

Even if they aren't a second mafia, i wouldnt mind lynching TCS, just to save town some trouble down the road.

Hi guys.

[Skruffs]

Its cool, jdodge, rosso is not here. (Btw, he had cleared kilmenator by the end of that day, iirc).


Xdaamno? Clarify the charges against me? I can only assume you think lighthearted posts are scummy?

[Skruffs]

A few notes:
1. Only

3

new players have joined. This means that, if I understand correctly, there will be another player joining us.
2. Whilst players entering the game as a

concept

is far from spontaneous, the

timing

may be...

Good call. We didn't get a successful lynch in, yesterday. There may have been four dead players when these three replaced in, rather three, which maybe would have meant four players.

You only need to hide if you're scum. I always assume Skruffs is innocent until nearly proven guilty.

DX I am too tired to overreact to this.

Setael may have been misguided regarding Jordan, but his theory is not 'scummy'. It's just based on misunderstood principles.


I find it interesting that two of the newly entered players immediately set their sights on Oman. Fritz, who claims that everyone else must be killed as fast as possible, SHOULD have voted for Xdaamno, who was closer to a lynch at that point. Instead, he started a new wagon.

I don't see the wagon on Oman. He's playing like I would expect a moogle to.

xdaamno - Would you prefer if I didn't react so much? I can tone it down, a bit. But to say I over react but to vote for me for back seat driving.. leaves me with no options.

Vote : Albert B. Rampage

Even if you consider yourself cleared, you aren't, and saying that killing you would be senseless is very careless on your part.

Fritz: The trick is to kill the right people, which is why it's a game of mafia and not "Bad Idea" or somesuch.

[Skruffs]

Okay, so now all three additions are pushing an OMan wagon. o.o
Trinity, indeed.

I doubt it's a three player l yncher team, but that WOULD be kind of awesome.
I believe Xdaamno was kind a fishing the first day as well. Nobody else seemed to think much of it.

Fritz - I've tried your method as scum to keep town off balance.
My method usually works for me, as town, unless I die, in which case, not so much.

If I don't vote for Oman right now, is everyone going to say I'm his scum buddy, too?

[Skruffs]

No, I don't think everyone is Town, that's just stupid. I think that everyone is Town

ie

. Well, actually, I don't anymore...

You don't anymore ? ...?

now THAT, my friends, is fishing.

My apologies, XDaamno, I stand correcetd.

[Skruffs]

Hmm.
*scratches the back of his head*

Unvote

[Skruffs]

yay, shanba.
I dunno about you guys, but this TCS Flay distancing is delicious. I want some fava beans. *SHLSHLLLSHP*

[Skruffs]

Unvote

Vote : TCS

barring no significant reads, I would prefer to take out someone who isn't contributing over someone who is.

[Skruffs]

Oddly enough, Flay, your opinion of TCS - who you ere just distancing from in your last post - was that he is just a lurker. I can only assume you are voting Oman because he's not scum hunting or posting an opinion - or voting - but isn't that exactly what TCS is doing?

Mr Flay, and TCS 's relationship is intriguing.

[Skruffs]

I doubt that Anyone should be held accountable for not voting someone that maybe they don't see as scummy, regardless of what Fritzler says. Other wise, mafia would just pile up on townie after townie while fossing everyone who didn't follow them. That's a bad idea.

And Oman is definitely not the voice of reason. That would be a stupid, stupid role name.

[Skruffs]

I won't hammer. I believe his claim (btw, i think ronald reagan liked broccoli, and hydrogen is the First element).

I would really, REALLY like albert to hammer oman. I think albert is scum who has the balls to be as scummy as he wants.

[Skruffs]

Oman - are you perpetually unlynchable? If so, we can just make ABR hammer you this time.

Shanba - Wow. So aggressive, completely unBelgian of you, and completely unlike the townieshanba I've seen in other games. Why the Skruffs hate? Unless you think I can see through your little guise?

I do not understand why a power role would risk themselves like that (TCS), but I rarely understand TCS's manner of playing.

ABR had no problem taking someone out of hte game buyt balked at being asked to risk the same to prove someone's role claim. Instead, he let TCS claim - another power role dead because of ABR's action or nonaction. And no, it's nto explicitly ABR's fault that TCS died, TCS is a moron.
For the record, ABR, I have no perception of you other than the one you are portraying in this game. It sounds like you are trying to make yourself out to be a new battle mage, or something. Drop the hubris, and help the town,

for once

.

[Skruffs]

Thank you, mos. Mos pays attention.

MOD: deadline should reset, since the vote count did.

If oman (who didn't answer my question) is eternally unlynchable, then he is town's greatest known tool right not- regardless of his alignment.

Oman - was that a one shot deal?

[Skruffs]

Oman has demonstrated his role. He's'not a supersaint, even if the role is similar, because a supersaint would have died. Jesus as a role name fits with michael jordan, broccoli, and others.

Oman, you probably wouldnt have been nightkilled anyways - but at least not the doctor - if there is one - can protect a non-townie. On the other hand, look at who's'attitudes towards you have changed since you completed claiming...

If i am reading correctly, mos was goading someone else into hammering but refusing to himself? Spicy!

unvote

vote : mos

[Skruffs]

Also - hydrogen doesn't burn, it explodes, and it doesn't produce smoke.

Occam's'razor could be used in different ways. It seems to me the simplest answer would be that oman is telling the truth. The cop, if any, waits until night 3 and inspects him. Course, we've lost one inspection role Per Day, which isn't looking too good.

[Skruffs]

TCS was counter-hung. That = suffocation.
Seriously, you don't try to lynch the Son of God twice in one day.

[Skruffs]

Unvote,

Vote : CES

[Skruffs]

Unvote

Vote : CES

[Skruffs]

CES is the new vote leader, GOW. Fritz is going to switch over in his next post.

[Skruffs]

Bm would be a twisted, twisted man, to have saddamn hussein show up as jesus after he died.

Twisted.

[Skruffs]

I'm sory, howwas it retarded?
Did you LIKE albert's'play?

[Skruffs]

It was down to ABR's replacement (who was floundering) and Oman, who's role had been proven. ABR killed without warning - Oman alerted everyone as to what would happen, and town (and most likely his scum buddies) pushed it anyways.

Vote : Shanba

... CES was a mislynch but it wasn't a badlynch. I considered it more likely that mafia would start off with a day kill and then go strictly to night than it would that mafia would kill the first person to kill them. I'm surprised you are playing so self-righteously about this.

[Skruffs]

Shanba, you were totally against Oman being lynched. Your reasoning - that a super saint unlynchable scum was punishing town for lynching scum - preceded by a vote on CES - is not much different from mine.
Bitching about the crappy wagon options while wagoning and not starting a better one of your own does not count as pro-town activity. Everyone was disgruntled and confused because when we tried to lynch someone, a power role died (STUPID TCS!!!) and pretty much all the current options were used up.

[Skruffs]

Erm, but, I don't see ABR's play as AT ALL conducive to town. He made his own decision and used a one time ability to kill someone that he personally wanted to kill in a grand, dramatic scene. The player was not given a chance to defend themselves, to claim, and wasn't even the subject of ABR's post when he sent in the kill.
This, compared to Oman, who had claimed Jesus. Oman played a better game than ABR or CES did, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt over the two.

Oh wait, insinuation time!

I'm glad you were so sure that ABR was town, but I don't have that luxury.

[Skruffs]

I *thought* ABR was scum. All day, and before the Oman wagon. HE acted scummy, that read scum to me. Who was the other option - Setael? You were on the ABR wagon not because you thought he was scum, but because you thought Oman was town, and you are attacking me for actually believing in the ABR wagon. I understand now.

Maybe we should ALL name claim.

[Skruffs]

For the record - I did think Albert was scum.
PRevious posts back that up.
I also thought Fritzler was scum (adn I'm not saying I don't know), mostly for his "Lynch before you think" playstyle. Shanba has sense said (I think it was shanba) that we shouldn't expect any more than that from FRitz, and I think that's just... ingratiating.

I switched to CES because I thought he was scum - and I thought Fritz was scum, so I thought Fritz would not switch over. CES turned out to be town, so, Fritz wagonning doesn't really prove anything, because he was going to wagon anyways.

[Skruffs]

but.. that is how you play

[Skruffs]

Paradoxombie kind of sums up my own feelings of incredulousness against Shanba re: CES's lynch.

[Skruffs]

Yagami unvoted Flay.

UNVOTE

Skruffs unvoted Shanba.

I'm going to look at Zu Faul, Fritzler, SSF, Setael, Paradoxombie, and Mr Flay to see who has good/bad reasons for their votes. Endorsing someone else's reasons as a reason for their own vote means (in my post) That that player endorses the first person's line of reasoning - so hopefully I'll be able to figure out what's going on.

[Skruffs]

SHanba, I am confused. If you voted CES because you were 'too lazy' to form your own wagon, you don't have any rights to bitch about it being a mislynch. You are basically bitching because your options weren't wide enough. THat's not how it works. You either build a c ase or you shut up and wagon. You chose to wagon, which means you don't get hte luxury of complaining about the wagon. Or, if you choose to fight the wagon, you explain why BEFORE you help lynch someone you feel is town.

vote : shanba

[Skruffs]

MOS is acting very badly.
Someone else did this in antoher game, so maybe I'm just sensitive, but stating that you have no interest in a game - and then asknig when the day is close to end - seems fishy.
FISHY. Like salmon, only without the butter.
MOS is too good a player to do something so blatantly scummy, right? Or is he? BEcause he's always scum in large games. Always.

[Skruffs]

vote : setael

I feel fritz is playing honestly and openly.
I think that 14 days is not three weeks. I feel that town is being rushed which is allowing aggressive scum to lead mislynches. The biggest emphasis behind fritz's wagon is that we need a lynch rather than a nolynch. Fritz has been proven to be effective at voting wagons. Shanba repeating process from mishammer yesterday.

BM you have to risk stagnation to allow thoughts and opinions to ripen. If you want a mcdonalds happy meal, you'll get it. Expect game to devolve quickly into random wagons and mass claims.

[Skruffs]

Meh. Just commentary, BM.

Unvote

Vote : Fritzl

That be a hammah. I thought Setael had 4 on her, which wouuld have been at least a comparable scumwagon.

[Skruffs]

K.
I'm willing to bet Jordan is scum, if only because of the kill method.

[Skruffs]

mebbe shanba...
the 'missing testicles' was a quote from wolves mafia, which recently ended it.
Or else it's some sort of bait or something for those of us who were n it, or something.

[Skruffs]

i guess i posted before i checked regarding the alive list

[Skruffs]

Bah, I was really hoping someone would kill me so I won't have to finish rereading.

I'm thinking either Shanba or MoS at the moment.

It's not me, so that narrows your choices...

Skruffs, I got a quick question for you, kinda coming out of nowhere, though.

Why do you think the scum didn't do something last night, instead of killing Mr Flay? It seems that Mr Flay was an odd kill choice. I'll admit I thought he was more likely to be protown, though. He faked a post restriction, so I'm not sure where he was going with that. If he had ever broken the post restriction, I would've lynched him immediately and he would've won. But either way, I didn't see Mr Flay as a likely kill. Why do you think he died?

?
Umm...
I have absolutely no clue? With only one death, I assumed that the mafia targetted him.
A theory would be that mayhaps the theory from yesterday, or the day before, that the three replacements were 'replacements' of the first three to die. One of the first three to die was an SK? One was a cop, one was a mafia.

I'm not sure why the mafia would kill the corresponding 'sk' role (turned out to be a jester, which is similar in alignment). Maybe they didn't?
That would implicate multiple power roles which I will not be ruminating on.

I am not going to bother checking, but there's no reasonable indication to think that he was a jester based on his role - so the idea that the mafia killed him to prevent him from being lynched because they

knew

he was a jester seems ridiculous.

Thinking that the mafia would NOT know that Mr. Flay was a jester, maybe they wanted to kill someone they thought of as a townie - in order to cast suspicion on someone that he was suspicious of... at the end of the day, he was suspicious of Mith, it looks like, but he jumped around on so many people...

What do YOU think happened, Zindaras? And why did you ask me, specifically, that question? Is it because you want my opinion? Or some darker reason?

Paradox-Sure I would be. As would Shanba! Except in the game I am referring to, I was scum, and the town was the one shooting off balls.

[Skruffs]

Set- my initial response to shanba you posted could have been considered distancing, if it wasn't part of an ongoing debate.

[Skruffs]

Distancing should be distracting.
WHEeEeE!

[Skruffs]

Don't forget, xdaamno, I defended him in the post right before I hammered.

Good point though - if scum thought he was PR'd they may have thought he was a power role, too.

[Skruffs]

Shanba did really defend Fritzler a good deal.

[Skruffs]

I did, it's true. I tried to push the competing wagon on setael, too. Bm didn't want to count my vote, I took it as a hint that setael was the wrong wagon, so I changed my mind.

What of it? I also challenged fritz's playstyle after he first replaced. Did you? Did shanba? Zhanovut? Uh-uh!

[Skruffs]

Is there anyone else you are interested in pursuing, mith, or are you kinda going it one wagon at a time?

[Skruffs]

Yes, but.. isn't Shanba the current wagon? With a possibility of a Skruffs wagon after?

[Skruffs]

I Explained the reasoning behind my vote for Fritzler. How close was it to deadline?

Also, SHanba, nobody thinks you tried to get CES lynched by not attacking another person hard enough. People are fussing at you because you went along with someone else's bandwagon and then tried to remove yourself from the mislynch by blaming the people who were on it other than you.

[Skruffs]

Yeah, what he said.

[Skruffs]

What you said, about SHanba, which Shanba for some reason quoted.

[Skruffs]

I think mos just softclaimed 'cpe'.














Kill him.

[Skruffs]

Mos and shanba, obv.
not mith, though, even though he could potentially be very suspicious by 'suspicion fishing'.

Shanbaby, what about mos *doesn't* ding-a-ling on your scumdar?

[Skruffs]

Side note:
Mith, if you stare at my avatar long enough you will become 'skruffs-aligned'. I paid a good deal of money to have it developed. Just stare at it and clear your mind.

[Skruffs]

You mean when you said I defended Fritz?
Actually, I did. I acknowledged that I defended fritz and pushed for setael. Because... I did. But (repitition here) I hammered Fritz anyways. I know, because I'm that scummy, right?

And you didn't stare long enough. And it's probably too early in the day. Wait until the witching hour.

[Skruffs]

no,t he 13th hour.
Look at me - what do you wish me to say?
Why are you trying to get other people to start the wagon for you, MOS - I'm pretty sure you've been playing long enough to come up with questions yourself.

Right?

[Skruffs]

Mith loves me... He really, really loves me!
*sniff*

[Skruffs]

Kison :
Well, I was looking at the wagons objectively, adn the wagon on Fritz came up really fast. As I sadi in teh post, I was nervous that it was being spearheaded by some overzealous scum. If you loko back to earlier in the game, though, I didn't like Fritzler's 'lynch anyone adn everyone' policy. I thought that it would be good to have a competing wagon, with Setael. That was amisread on my part though, because the setael wagon had been abandoned by the time I (attempted to) vote her. Deadline was pretty close... not nervewrackingly close, but pretty close, so, I switched back over.

I didn't even realize you were in this game - when did you replace in, Kison?

It doesn't even reduce suspicion on her that she repeatedly stated that she though one of the three was scum, and was one of the first to go after Fritzler? Because both those actions seem quite protown to me.

This actually strikes me as someone having insider knowledge, to me.

[Skruffs]

Actually, it's not the each role being a replacement for the first three that is insider knowledge - that's a good theory anyone could come to, and it was discussed. I meant more how you 'zeroed in' on fritz as the one who was scum.

[Skruffs]

Whoa. Just had a thought.
Maybe mafia killed flay cuz they thought he'd turn out to an sk... Worried about being nk'd..
Who's worrying about vig kills now?

[Skruffs]

Actually, it's not the each role being a replacement for the first three that is insider knowledge - that's a good theory anyone could come to, and it was discussed. I meant more how you 'zeroed in' on fritz as the one who was scum.

That might be a valid point except that it is completely false. Have you forgotten that I actually "zeroed in" on TCS first? I thought TCS was the one out of the three who was mafia. After he turned up Town and Flay was hinting at a power role, it seemed highly likely that it was Fritzler, especially considering his unhelpful posts.

K. I accept this, and I was more building off of someone else's post, and not checking the facts.
I stand corrected, oh beautiful Setael.

[Skruffs]

Mos, you can be annoyed, but my sspicions of you are based on actual experience/facts. Don't blame me for your dogma!

[Skruffs]

Every large game, mos. and... Um... Maybe you've just forgotten about everyone else I've talked about. I'm pretty sure you aren't really voting me because I said you've been scum in every large game we've shared and you died in, right?
Just look at your sig. 40% scum. It's not scummy to take that into consideration.

Do you play differently as town? If so, how?

[Skruffs]

What is xdaamno's voting history?


Mos, I can't believe hw seriously freaked out you are over this. +i+ would expect better of +you+. Its kind of funny though. Which of the 60 games you played in as town would you like me to research, since you are unwilling to disclose 'town tells' about yourself?

Shanba- you have conceded that my techniques are unusual, but I've won as town in every finished game me and you have shared. Why are you so afraid of me?

Lastly, 'ih is always scum' came around for a reason. Some people tend to 'pull' certain roles more than others.

[Skruffs]

Check out mos's roles in all three Post restriction games for an example.

[Skruffs]

Anime mafia? 3 person end game? Remember how I helped push the thrawn wagon and then hammered yama after being suspicious of him nearly the whole day?

Was near vanilla open 17? I forget which game we lost horribly together.

I don't see why you are so pissy about me insinuatuing you are scum...
I do like how when other people start suggesting they don't like shanba, mos 'overreacts' to analysis on the likelihood of him being scum and tries to shift attention to me instead. Xdaamno's vote followed shortly thereafter.

Heh.

[Skruffs]

Ssf - explain what?

[Skruffs]

Mneme-
I'm not saying that YOU should be, I am expressing that I am. Am I even voting him? No.
Relax. Expressing opinions is how the game moves forward.

Mos has stated I have just acted too scummy to be town, right? Now I can go back and see his opinions of ABR, fritz, and oman,and see if he felt the same towards them.

[Skruffs]

Oh. It's a joke that ih is always scum. For one reason or another, ih (apparently) pulls a very high scum-to-town ratio of roles, more than you would expect. Is this because mods decide to give him scum roles, or because he replaces out of roles more often as town, or because he just has that 'lucky rabbit foot' that influences the universe to randomly give him scum roles? I don't know, and this isn'tthe place to really discuss it.but everyone knows the joke and (to a point) it seems to ring true. Not a basis for lynching someone, certainly, but it's worth bringing up should other lines of thought fall through.

Considering I posted from my ell, I MAY have posted to te wrong 'mod-themed game". I think I posted a similar thing in fritz's game, and I thought I was just continuing the same line of thought here, but apparently I started it all up anew. At the risk of talking about other games out of thread, I apologize.

Hope that clears things up!

[Skruffs]

Very amusing that "ih is always scum" is "not a basis for lynching someone,

certainly

..."

Mos has stated I have just acted too scummy to be town, right? Now I can go back and see his opinions of ABR, fritz, and oman,and see if he felt the same towards them.

Claiming that this was your plan is not going to get you out of this one, Skruffs. You got caught trying to pass of bullshit as logic to push suspicion on people, and so you went over the top to try and set up a "too scummy to be scum" situation. Then you concocted a bullshit "theory" that you were testing to bring yourself out of it. It's not going to work. I opposed the ABR lynch, and I don't even think I noticed Fritz all game. I also tried to get Oman lynched against the ABR wagon. Your play is not comparable to theirs. Nice try, though.

Never said it was my plan, MOS. I've actually stated that I didn't realize this wasn't the game I was pursuing that line of thought. But regardless of if it was my plan or not, I can roll with the punches and use the information you've given me to compare it against the information you've given out previously. Maybe I will find that you are more pro-town, right? You shuoldn't be so nervous if you are town, MOS, the facts will bear you out, I am sure.

[Skruffs]

mneme - "only" 1 or 2?

[Skruffs]

Mith -
21 players divided by 3 = 7 scum (33% of the game)
21 players divided by 4 = 5.25 (25% of the game)

I reacted to mneme's post the way I did because it seemed to be downplayign the number of scum in the game. When there is scum, they need to be killed. IT's like saying "I

only

have one or two arterial sprays spurting from my wounds." As long as you have ANY, you will die from them.
So yes, I think there are AT LEAST 2 and probably 3, in some combination of mafia/sks, etc.

Secondly, I think she's being conservative, and I don't know why she would be.

Thirdly, I don't see how you can interpret my post as "insider knowledge" - mneme is the one suggesting there's only one or two left. Considering she's using your reason (which actually applies to her) as her own reason to future-vote me, that *should* perk your interest, at least a *bit*

Shanba, MOS, Xddaamno, Mith, and Mneme... you still need two more people to find some little reason to put a vote on me and then stay in the shadows. Note that the most publicly noted as scummy players are all on me right now, with another one soon to join.
(Yes, I know Mith and Mneme aren't officially voting me, yet, but they are 'testing the waters' to see if they should commit to it, first.)

I'll name-claim in my next post, if you all want.

[Skruffs]

If scum knows there's only one or two left of them, they would definitely want to downplay the importance of that.
Maybe we have different definitions for downplaying.
Here's an example:
Someone finds out the government buried nuclear waste in their backyard.
They call the government.
My downplaying govt:
"Oh, yes, well, we do have some toxic waste in your yard, but, I wouldn't be concerned about it. Studies have shown that nuclear waste can have a healthy effect on certain types of cell growth!"
citizen - "You mean, like, cancer?"
got - "Cancer, well, yes, it has a bad rap, doesn't it? But I woudln't be worrid about it. Who knows, you may even develop a new vestigial limb!"


Miths version:
"Well, we really only buried a *little* bit of toxic waste. I wouldn't worry about it."

THe difference is in mine, the government is trying to downgrade the importance/danger of the toxic waste, and in mith's, the government is trying to downgrade the Existance of it.

Hope that clears things up for you, Mister Mith.

[Skruffs]

And I think you are taking mine out of context. That's why I am trying to correct you.
<3

[Skruffs]

Just look at your sig. 40% scum. It's not scummy to take that into consideration.

Agree 100%. Skruffs, even if MoS had been scum 80% of the time, who's to say BM is rigging his game to match that statistic?

This is a very big stretch of a reason to vote someone.

Who voted mos for that reason?

Shanba, there's no case against me that I can respond to but haven't as of yet.

I am the voice of reason, vanilla townie, and I d not understand why people don't care enough about the game to use anything but 'we need a lynch'. Does anyone currently voting me have a reason for doing so other than the discussion stirring that I do in every game as town?

vote : shanba

Hostile, prejdgemental, unreasonable, and not the shanba I am familiar with as town.hypocritical, unhelpful, and brash.

If I seriously get lynched because of my own personal meta on mos and for hammering scum then I hope you guys have a nice rest of the game without me. I'm pretty sure scum will have a nice easy endgame, cuz I saw this coming much earlier when mith was fishing to see if a skruffs wagon had potential of being successful. After defeating his 'point', I got even more votes.

[Skruffs]

Also, note: nobody who's voted me since my offer has expressed any interest in hearing it.
Jdodge, mos, mith, mneme, shanba, those of you that are town need to get your act together.

[Skruffs]

Oddly enough Shanba, your use of "only viable wagon" hasn't changed at all this game. You intend to do anything else besides criticize other people's scum hunting and bandwagon? Because that is not like you, and I don't even remember "Mostly Vanilla" but I do remember Anime, where you were at least Attempting to scum hunt.

[Skruffs]

If I have to die, fine, but please lynch Shanba in the morrow. Look how he has regarded each wagon, how he's playing the game, and what the intentions behind his posts are. You'll see.

[Skruffs]

I doubt that Anyone should be held accountable for not voting someone that maybe they don't see as scummy, regardless of what Fritzler says. Other wise, mafia would just pile up on townie after townie while fossing everyone who didn't follow them. That's a bad idea.

And Oman is definitely not the voice of reason. That would be a stupid, stupid role name.

from day two (i think)

[Skruffs]

What logic are you saying is worse than Battle Mage?
Unfortunately I can't bitch you for wanting to lynch me REGARDLESS of my alignment, for some reason that seems to be a recurring theme.
Apparently mentioning your increased likelihood of being scum freaks you the fudge out. You overreacted way too much instead of reacting clamly or jesting. That's cool. It doesn't look good on you, in the end, so hopefully it will serve a purpose.

I really hope you guys look over my posts through the rest of the game after I am lynched and then look at hte people who decided to lynch me for crap, non, or unreasons.

[Skruffs]

mneme - why isn't a Shanba lynch better than a no-lynch? Why are you tryign to corral town to lynch me when you apparently have no REASON behind the push?

[Skruffs]

The note about MOS's percentage as scum was my own personal scumt ell. He's using that to pull attention away from what he's done BEFORE I mentioned it.

Did I actually say MOS needed to be lynched because there was a higher percentage of him being scum? No. I did point out that to me, he's ALWAYS scum in every large theme game, but did I use that as a reason to vote him? No. Look at who all was talking at that time. NOT A LOT. IT was designed to inspire discussion.

Mith shanba mos and mneme jsut have to wait until deadline now. That's all they have to do, because nobody CARES enough to THINK about why I am being lynched over Shanba.


How many people have said it was MUCH more likely that Shanba was bussing Fritz than I was?
Are any of those people voting me now?


Shanba's has been attacking me since the day before, and I have askedh im why he is so against me when he knows (admitted!!) that I act this way as town in almost EVERY Game?? His ONLY response was that I was discussing power roles in "Nostly Vanilla", which, I guess meanas he wants to lynch me because I discussed power roles

IN

ANOTHER

FUCKING

GAME.


I've pointed out Anime Mafia twice and he IGNORES IT.
We were BOTH town in that game and I helped a ONE TWO THREE scum lynch at lylo.


For some reason Shanba wants to ignore that and ponit to Mostly Vanilla where I did admittedly play bad. I self hammered for god's sake.


SHANBA IS SCUM!!!

[Skruffs]

I know you all could care less about this game, and maybe you just want to mislynch anyways just to get the game over with.


I *never* Said that BM would intentionally make MOS Scum because of his sig, Yagami Light.


Shanba, MastermindofSin, Xdaamno, Mith, Kison, YAgami, have all of you just FORGOTTEN everything that's happened since before Day 4?
I say that MOS is more likely to be scum (posting to the wrong GAME abuot it even, that was supposed to go to Fritzlers game, AS I HAVE MENTIONED) and Shanba's bussing, MOS's scumminess, Mith's just completely WRONG fishing (which he conceded was wrong but is STILL voting me anyways), etc, NONE of this matters?