In post 10311, Drixx wrote:So you have a town read on someone from months ago and you're not at all interested in updating that read?
I never said that read wasn't updated. We've had months of constant contact with him in the neighborhood and he's been extremely active, at times posting pages by himself thinking about the game when Nacho and I were ignoring the game and doing nothing. I mean sure some of the near 1000 posts he has were us playing hangman or talking about mafia games in general or just stuff about life, but there's been a good deal of gamesolving going on from his end, all by himself. (I'd say you'll see what I mean if you look at the neighborhood after the game, but due to how fun it was and some things that were said before day two ended, as far as I know our neighborhood is not being made public, so.)
I made mention in my previous post that I tend to be paranoid, which means I constantly update and examine my reads. I realize this thread hasn't seen my usual paranoia-infused waffling so it might not look like that, but it's a read I have thought about and keep coming back to town.
drixx wrote:
If ZeL1nk is town, then he needs to stop swinging his dick all over the game. Nobody enjoys being ordered around even when it's someone conftown like you or Magua. It's considerably more irritating when it's someone who has some town cred from the very start of the game. The whole "I can't believe scum would do x to other scum" completely ignores third parties as a possibility and also completely ignores the fact that scum gambits that work do so because they are actions that most people won't believe scum will actually make.
I mean, I made some crazy plays back in my live mafia days. Once when I was the godfather (in Live mafia, the Godfather has final say on the night kill, unless he's killed and then that power goes to the mob boss; the exception is if all the rest of the mafia turn on the godfather or mob boss and kill him), I killed off the last remaining mafia member besides myself at night because the people in the game were assuming she was town and I was mafia. When she died and flipped mafia nobody believed I would have done that and everyone assumed it was an attempt to frame me.
I get this. I've butted heads more than once with people taking the lead in a way I didn't appreciate very much, but just because you don't appreciate his approach doesn't mean it comes from scum. I mean think of it this way. Let's say he's town; he's spent the past couple months trying to figure out this game, which has been a bit of a slog (mostly because of things that happened day one/two, a bunch of replacements, and players that really haven't been putting much into the game). He's been trying to figure out the game, trying to figure it out from different angles and it's day six and we're still nowhere closer than we were day two. Can you see how he might be frustrated and just trying to get something done. Someone needs to take control of this game and give it some direction. I realize maybe you'd prefer if it's us or Magua, and we're doing what we can with the time and energy available to us.
And I totally get gambits, which is why I brought that up and said that it's something that I don't think that Cephrir, himself, is likely to do. Quite frankly, I don't think Cephrir is the type of player to try to get rid of a teammate day one with a "vig" shot and expect to last until the end without questions. And I don't think that out of his teammates, he'd pick TD over Peregrine if he were going to gambit like that. I mean I'll look back at day one and the suspicion on TD, but I don't think it's likely.
(We have seen partners kill each other here for the town cred, so I get the suspicion. What I am looking at is if it makes sense.)
Also, zelink makes a good point about the uselessnes of him killing us. He knew exactly what our role was as we claimed in the neighborhood at the end of day one...our entire role. So, why kill us? I mean we might not have been overly town read, but it is still hard to lynch us and with our role interactions we were very unlikely to be scum, but there were better kill targets than us when we died, especially if scum don't have important day actions we could block. His lean-town read on espy for that reason also makes sense.
Now sure, if you want to argue third party, that's fine. Maybe there is another one out there and we do need to find them, but I'm going to need something way stronger than he's being abrasive to point to him being scum. Some players are abrasive and take out their frustrations on the game. I think you're having a playstyle clash more than an alignment clash and are butting heads because of it.
I just think this game is frustrating and has everyone on edge. It's really difficult to figure out the game when there are people who aren't participating much and it makes it that much more difficult to read them, and that's taking a toll on everyone, and the more we fight with each other because we're frustrated the less we're going to figure out this game.
